BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: SteelRaven on 09 January 2019, 13:27:54
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Thinking of a Dark Age era Solaris story and was thinking of starting with light mechs (MW4: Mercs logic that they are the relatively affordable fighting machines)
Though it would be a good idea to get list of favorite fighting lights so things don't get repetitive.
I'll start off with the Wolfhound.
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Jenner F
Venom 9KA
Spector 4F
Adder Prime
Incubus II
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Cougar D. (You'd be amazed how overwhelming that thing can be against another light Mech in a zellbrigen duel- and what is Solaris but zell with fans?)
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+1 for the Venom 9KA
Also partial to the QD Valkyrie, any Panther, and (if I'm feeling very lucky) the Pack Hunter.
Also the Hollander.
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Hmm... Toss between Banshee and Zeus ;D
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Ooooooh, good call on the Hollander. High risk, high reward- there's a reason it's the most popular Mech at the Solaris Melee Challenge most of the time. It's only firing once per turn, it's boned if it misses, it's got a bomb in its torso... but that's a pretty hefty amount of range, and not many other Mechs of its class can take that fifteen-point kiss without it causing serious problems. Great Mech. (I actually love the LB-10X version more, but as a supporting-role AA unit rather than a dueler)
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Old school? Spider-5V...Dark Age might be a 8K...
Also the Spector-4F or 5F (if the 4F's special systems aren't allowed...)
Ruger
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I have a soft spot for the Solitaire.
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Also a big fan of the JR7-F and SDR-9KA.
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So . . . I think people are really missing 3145? Which for one means its after the Wolves have occupied Solaris VII . . . so Clan tech should really not be hard to get.
I think a few awesome 3145 mechs are missing!
Havoc P6 (makes me wonder what the P2, P3, P5, and P9 are- and begs for cERMLs!)
8/12/5, 97% armor, 4 ERML & SRM4 w/2t ammo in a CASE II bin, 11 DHS and Quirk- Improved Targeting (Short)
Tiburon
7/11, 4 ERML, 2 ERSL, 2 SRM2 w/ CASEII, TC and Watchdog CEWS, and Quirk- Multi-Trac
Jaguar
8/12, 4 ERML,, ATM6 w/2T in a turret, 2 SRM2 w/1t ammo, and Quirk- Protected Actuators
Phoenix Hawk 11K2- freak some opponents out into thinking you are a med!
6/9/(6?), Snub PPC w/Capacitor, MML3, 2 ERMLs
And if you could swing it-
Wulfen Omni
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So . . . I think people are really missing 3145? Which for one means its after the Wolves have occupied Solaris VII . . . so Clan tech should really not be hard to get.
I think a few awesome 3145 mechs are missing!
The Jackalope in many different flavors...
Ruger
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I’ve been running the Jenner F since I started playing in 1996. My 3145 light minis have seen the table a few times each so they haven’t had time to achieve favorite status. Ask again in 2042 :))
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Anubis 5Y or the 5Z.
I just noticed that sarna has the wrong armor for it. I wasn't allowed to change the amount of armor; only the weapons.
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Pretty much any version of the Fire Javelin and Osiris aren't bad in that type of environment.
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its a custom that I built but the "wolf pup" rates pretty high for me, but the kit fox and wolfhound are pretty good also
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I'm a big fan of the Mongoose, and the Hermes I isn't exactly bad either. At those tonnages, in the 3025 era, speed is life. A FS9-M is also pretty nice, as is the JR7-F, but I'm not fond of the 100% torso-mounted armament on the JVN-10F (it can't cover its own butt). Once you get into the eras with Pulse Lasers, Clan stuff, and TCs, the survival rate for Lights goes way down, and you need something with more armor and the ability to hit high-THN targets. At that point, I'll take a Vixen(Incubus) with the cLPL.
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Hussar 200D. Armor is for wussies.
What the heck is a 3145?
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what?
nobody wants a Piranha?
😈
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what?
nobody wants a Piranha?
😈
"NO."
*hordes of infantry everywhere*
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I just imagined a Solaris 7 ATOW campaign that has a Zombie Apocalypse story arc.
How glorious would a Piranha be then!?!
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Hussar 200D. Armor is for wussies.
What the heck is a 3145?
I see your 200D and raise you a 900D
A real warrior only really needs a LAC/2
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Well . . .
Solaris VII is about showmanship right? So the Piranha might fight in for the 'braaaapp brappp' demographic, and could certainly be flashing enough for Tri-D. The Piranha 2 would work for the lightshow, but it would need the name 'Disco Laser Show' painted on it somewhere . . . though I think the 3 is better suited for the arena than the 2.
Of course if a mechwarrior did put 'Disco Laser Show' on the mech, then they would have to make public appearances and walk out to the mech in a hard hat, aviator sunglasses, and make his cooling vest look like a jean vest.
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The Wasp-1W is a good Disco Show 'mech for the 3025 era. (and we all know that's the only era that matters...)
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. . . the 3025 era. (and we all know that's the only era that matters...)
Except the OP is specifically saying 3145 . . .
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To each his own.
Wouldn't be hard to update the -1W... just DHS it up and clan-tech the lasers. Boom instant Dark Age mech.
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what?
nobody wants a Piranha?
😈
I mean, I figured that was just assumed...
Ooooooh, good call on the Hollander. High risk, high reward- there's a reason it's the most popular Mech at the Solaris Melee Challenge most of the time. It's only firing once per turn, it's boned if it misses, it's got a bomb in its torso... but that's a pretty hefty amount of range, and not many other Mechs of its class can take that fifteen-point kiss without it causing serious problems. Great Mech. (I actually love the LB-10X version more, but as a supporting-role AA unit rather than a dueler)
I have a love/hate relationship with Holly. On the one hand, I genuinely do adore the fact that it is clearly and unashamedly designed for one very specific purpose, unlike a lot of mechs in this game which seem to exist purely to test some engineer's theory of "well, what if we put the medium laser in the left torso instead of the right arm?"
On the other hand, I can't help but look at it and see an obvious example of why Battlemechs aren't the end-all-be-all of the BTU. The Yellow Jacket and the Regulator are just better choices for fielding a mobile gauss rifle.
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Hussar 200D. Armor is for wussies.
What the heck is a 3145?
Rokurokubi RK-4T and 4K. Armor is everything. Hardened armor for days, goes 7/10 (due to armor) and carries a sword and either a) LAC/5 with 2t of ammo, or b) ER PPC.
That LAC/5 sounds like a joke, but with 2 of ammo you can mount precision ammo and AP ammo (if you are going against other high tech armors) and still shoot for days.
It has as much armor as some heavy mechs, and can take that hollander's gauss rifle anywhere without an armor breach.
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But falls . . .
Yeah, I guess if you were going for Kurita flair, then you definitely paint it up like its the avatar of a samurai.
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But falls . . .
Yeah, I guess if you were going for Kurita flair, then you definitely paint it up like its the avatar of a samurai.
The coordinator is disappointed at your lack of piloting skill. You will do better.
Besides the following applies:
#1) In a light mech dual, it is unlikely they will inflict 40+ points of damage.
#2) That isn't a typo. According to errata, it PSR damage numbers are based on number of bubbles filled, so it takes 40 pts (20 bubbles) to force a PSR.
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I know, I was involved in that conversation . . . I was more thinking of getting kicked when you go in for the melee samurai or moving over bad terrain.
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#1) In a light mech dual, it is unlikely they will inflict 40+ points of damage.
#2) That isn't a typo. According to errata, it PSR damage numbers are based on number of bubbles filled, so it takes 40 pts (20 bubbles) to force a PSR.
Well, it only takes 20 points of damage if you're using AP autocannon rounds, but the Urbanmech with the AC/20 is the only light mech capable of doing that in existence, barring a custom.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Scarabus yet.
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To each his own.
Wouldn't be hard to update the -1W... just DHS it up and clan-tech the lasers. Boom instant Dark Age mech.
I played the against the -1W once, I was honestly impressed at how effective it was at killing other lights.
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I pick the Incubus. That little mech has done well by me in running rings around my enemy. I usually like to run it with some Jenner IICs or other fast 3055 second-line Clan units.
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Wolfhound is a good choice, ut if this is dark age you might want to spring for a Havoc.
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So . . . I think people are really missing 3145? Which for one means its after the Wolves have occupied Solaris VII . . . so Clan tech should really not be hard to get.
I'm old-fashioned, and don't know the newer stuff as well. And I'd probably still run my choices in 3145 as a result. And maybe even a UM-R80 or WSP-1W. Because I'm never going to be on the cover of Sanity Faire.
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What about a mech with a bunch of Re-Engineered Lasers? Ignore whatever screwy armor your opponent wants to use?
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In my Alpha Strike forces I have quite a few Koshi 3s (the new versions) I love those fast little buggers!! Yes they are squishy but so much fun to run around like a kid after 4 pounds of Halloween candy!
After that I like the Solitaire. But it seems too good to me usually. Not "struggling merc" enough. ;)
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I don't really care for the Solitaire in light mech duels. The attack penalty for heavy lasers is too problematic when you're typically already looking at 6+gunnery for an attack at short range (running and +4 TMM). I have more fun sending it against larger, slower moving prey.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Scarabus yet.
The Scarabus, while okay for its day, doesn't age well. If it doesn't get into melee the amount of damage it can deal is inconsequential. It's still useful outside of a duel, but unless you can get a good hit with hatchet it is underwhelming.
In my Alpha Strike forces I have quite a few Koshi 3s (the new versions) I love those fast little buggers!! Yes they are squishy but so much fun to run around like a kid after 4 pounds of Halloween candy!
After that I like the Solitaire. But it seems too good to me usually. Not "struggling merc" enough. ;)
The Koshi 3 is a bit to squish for my tastes in a duel. It's a good lance/star mate when it can be ignored in favor a larger target. The fact that it can be disarmed with a couple shots of a Large Pulse/SnPPC makes it unattractive to me a dueling mech. I enjoy a Solitaire, but as Ogre mentioned when facing another fast target that +1 to with with heavy lasers is a big factor in who wins of losses a match. Both the Solitaire and the Scarabus could use a good DA upgrade.
What about a mech with a bunch of Re-Engineered Lasers? Ignore whatever screwy armor your opponent wants to use?
If you get into custom mechs I suppose you can make one, but the value of that mech comes down to entirely what your opponent is running. Looking at the existing designs there are a handful of mechs that take advantage of special armor types that ReLas would fielding against. The designs that worth playing are the Gunsmith, Hollander III, Urbanmech, and Silver Fox. Counter to that ReLas designs out there are the Ebony, Spider, Nyx, Prey Seeker.
None of those ReLas designs are all that impressive and have much weaker armor profiles. The Ebony and the Spider make the most sense of the two to use as they feature a Large ReLas. That is more likely to make a difference with the longer range than the other 2 which have no range advantage at all. I'd put my money on any of those special armor mechs 100% of the time to come out ahead against those ReLas armed mechs.
While I'm at it, I should say that the Ebony MEB-9 is a nice little dueling machine as well, speed, stealth, snub, and TSM if it gets warm enough to really do some damage to something in melee should it have to deal with a target that has reflective armor.
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Don't forget that Re-lasers got dev-level errata to boost their effectiveness: they enjoy a -1TN bonus. That absolutely helps factor favorably in the context of light mech duelling where you're likely to see high TMMS.
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If you get into custom mechs I suppose you can make one, but the value of that mech comes down to entirely what your opponent is running. Looking at the existing designs there are a handful of mechs that take advantage of special armor types that ReLas would fielding against. The designs that worth playing are the Gunsmith, Hollander III, Urbanmech, and Silver Fox. Counter to that ReLas designs out there are the Ebony, Spider, Nyx, Prey Seeker.
ReLas work against Hardened and FL armor as well as Reflective. That means the Rokurokubi is another thing you can use them on. And given its lack of firepower, that can really tilt the odds in your favor against it.
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Don't forget that Re-lasers got dev-level errata to boost their effectiveness: they enjoy a -1TN bonus.
I didn't forget. More to the point, their weight cost relative to that -1 benefit still leaves them offensively underwhelming. If I'm anything aside from that Urbanmech though I'm not that terribly worried about a ReLas.
ReLas work against Hardened and FL armor as well as Reflective. That means the Rokurokubi is another thing you can use them on. And given its lack of firepower, that can really tilt the odds in your favor against it.
Left those out didn't I? So the 4T is fairly forgetable in the firepower department, but will be out there for awhile. The 4K carries an ER PPC which makes it a bit harder design to ignore. The ReLas designs available simply can't exchange and soak the damage as well on the return.
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No, but neither can any other light mech. At least with ReLas, you've got a decent chance of punching through its armor quickly.
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To me a dueling light mech is all about speed, piloting finesse, speed, intelligent use of cover, and speed. ^-^
If I'm running fast enough to blow my eyebrows off I don't need armor. ECM and MASC makes me happy.
A Targeting Computer and 6 Heavy Small Lasers makes my opponent sad.
Great combo. :thumbsup:
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A Targeting Computer and 6 Heavy Small Lasers makes my opponent sad.
It can, but it telegraphs exactly where you have to be if you want to shoot someone effectively. To me that is a huge disadvantage. Assuming we are still talking about the Koshi 3, the TAG in a duel does nothing and the ECM and probe isn't going that will positively effect a battle unless you are planning on using advance rules.
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Very true.
A Firemoth-H is great in a 1v1 duel, but on a big board with a lance+ of mechs per side, it has a MUCH harder time finding a way to get in for that backstab w/o also getting pasted by fire from the friend of its target.
I think I might like that Jenner-LL Prototype version as a Dueling mech.
LL to harass other ML boats from range & still 2 ML in close when your jumping 5.
Seems like a good combo to me but I don't think I've ever seen one on the table top in 30+ years of gaming.
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Even in a duel, a Dasher H has issues. It's completely dependent on winning initiative in order to be able to attack.
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Hmm... Toss between Banshee and Zeus ;D
No, no. You have to do it right: The Charger - 1A1
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If this is a duel where a certain amount of Sportsmanship is expected such as solaris or clan trials, the Mjolnir and Storm Raider should be taken into account. Mace cares little for reflec and hits hard enough that even a hardened light winces.
Impact resistant armor likewise removes opposing melee options
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Eh, it's still only nine damage a hit from the Storm Raider, not terribly impressive against a mech with Hardened Armor (and the Ryu is faster anyway, so that makes trying to melee against it difficult). And the one variant with Impact Resistant Armor is armed with a RAC/2, which is going to be really ineffective against Hardened Armor.
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Even in a duel, a Dasher H has issues. It's completely dependent on winning initiative in order to be able to attack.
Which is why we have Fire Moth Ds.
Or for the 0/0 connoisseurs the Fire Moth (Aletha).
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I think I might like that Jenner-LL Prototype version as a Dueling mech.
LL to harass other ML boats from range & still 2 ML in close when your jumping 5.
Seems like a good combo to me but I don't think I've ever seen one on the table top in 30+ years of gaming.
It's a bit of an odd duck. Its armor is better than a Hussar, sure, but it's still not that great, and it spends 2 tons on an extra pair of heat sinks that I'm not sure it needs: it ought have been better served by using those on a pair of medium lasers, one in each arm, or more armor.
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I didn't realize it had reduced armor.
I was thinking it just traded the SRM & 2 ML in for the LL & kept 10 HS.
In that case, I revise my statement & since its a Dark Age question per the OP.... I'd go Gunsmith, that speed, the armor, the extra range & to hit bonus. Yeah, Gunsmith.
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I didn't realize it had reduced armor.
I was thinking it just traded the SRM & 2 ML in for the LL & kept 10 HS.
In that case, I revise my statement & since its a Dark Age question per the OP.... I'd go Gunsmith, that speed, the armor, the extra range & to hit bonus. Yeah, Gunsmith.
Yeah, that was my impression of the JR7-A before I saw the specs, and had that been the case, I'd be all over it. I kinda want to build one out that way and see how it runs, because that has the potential to be phenomenal.
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it's not dissimilar to a Mongoose 68 where you trade armor for jump jets.
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Stock variants, I think the PNT-16K fits the OP’s time window.
Heat sinks to jump and shoot, streaks so no wasted ammunition.
Only overheats if the streaks fire and not that badly if both do. That being said, is 2 SSRM4s hit a light mech I am not complaining about heat.
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Stock variants, I think the PNT-16K fits the OP’s time window.
Heat sinks to jump and shoot, streaks so no wasted ammunition.
Only overheats if the streaks fire and not that badly if both do. That being said, is 2 SSRM4s hit a light mech I am not complaining about heat.
Actually that's a pretty solid choice. Good call, I forgot about that one. You win a cookie.
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Faster than 4/6? If not then I will take a pass . . . among the lights, you have the quick and the dead.
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Faster than 4/6? If not then I will take a pass . . . among the lights, you have the quick and the dead.
I mean, if custom is allowed I rip out the PPC for a large pulse. Suddenly that movement modifier isn’t so hard a hurdle to get past.
While I don’t think speed is normally critical, I’ve had success bringing heavy armor and weapons with lights.
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How about a Raptor F. 7/11/7, 5 ER Medium lasers, 13 DHS. Not much armor, and IS XL engine, but it does good sustained damage and can move well.
And cheap on BV, so you can put in a better pilot.
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I mean, if custom is allowed I rip out the PPC for a large pulse. Suddenly that movement modifier isn’t so hard a hurdle to get past.
While I don’t think speed is normally critical, I’ve had success bringing heavy armor and weapons with lights.
Which is now worse to face lights . . . you have a 10 hex range, so I can be faster to keep out of range, and peck away.
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cleanup
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Which is now worse to face lights . . . you have a 10 hex range, so I can be faster to keep out of range, and peck away.
How big is this arena? I don’t remember a lot of Solaris arenas providing much in the way of long range engagement. A missile duel doesn’t sell tickets or some such attitude.
I took a look at a few arena maps. Basically, the Steiner Stadium is open but only like 20x30 hexes or so. So there is room to run but not much range. All the rest are too convoluted, too wooded, or too hilly to provide LOS farther than 10 hexes.
On a huge or infinite plain, yeah that Panther is gonna suffer
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Also comes down to the range brackets, the LPL is 3/7/10 . . . which means you are getting 1 point less damage with the same TH numbers at 4-7 and 8-10 hexes as the weapon you are replacing.
Against some of the better mechs that are being mentioned? The Stealth Spector (Stealth offsets that -2TH), Havoc (4 ERML), Cougar D (8 hex short range & 1 pt more damage than the LPL), Wolfhounds (ERLL/ERPPC see range comments above), Kurita's Rokuwhatever (halves damage and spits back as much plus melee), and the crazy guy using a Hollander.
I think the Panther is outmatched in 3140s in light duels. I still think its a valid unit on the battlefield however.
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LPL isn't really a weapon I would put on a Light mech.
Mediums maybe to hunt Lights.
Or a crit starved Assault to make Lights/Mediums think twice about backstabbing me.
But I don't really use the LPL on Lights or Heavies. Its a niche weapon & I have uses for it, but on a Panther isn't one of them.
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Even the older Wolfhounds have always been good dueling choices, considering they are one of the best lights out there.
That said, the Jaguar is among my favorite Light Mechs (And favorite quad mechs) due to dealing pretty consistent damage in the forward arc and having an ATM-6 on a 360 degree turret while still moving 8/12 and carrying full armor. I imagine it'd still perform very well in a duel, to boot.