Author Topic: MOTW: Flamberge  (Read 27318 times)

ItsTehPope

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MOTW: Flamberge
« on: 01 April 2011, 12:18:43 »
Well, today is the first of April, so obviously the best choice is to let the crackpot post today.  Several PTB have been looking forward to this, though Cod only knows why.

Moving right along on the 3085 review train, we come upon the Flamberge, a manuverable new heavy from the Jade Falcons which has so far proven to be quite a hit among the fanbase.  It is also notable for being one of the very very few OmniMechs in TRO3085, being half of the Clan contingent and beating all of the Inner Sphere by itself due to its total lack of entries in that contest.

   The genesis of the design indicates that the Falcons were curious what the effects were when one combined the partial wing design from the DCMS Kage BA, mating it with the shoulder baffles from a Goshawk.  This gave birth to some success on a heavily modifed Cougar, however, this did not lead to more success and was sent to the land of broken toys to sit ignored.  However, in 3074, Marthe Pryde, possibly in one of her last actions had tasked the Falcon Merchant Caste with using what was in the pipeline to rebuild the shattered Touman.  To speed things up, the design team removed most of the wing hardware, leaving an imposing look to the design.

   Designed to be a heavy hitter to work well with other preferred Falcon heavies, such as the Summoner, Mad Dog, and the Hellbringer and quite possibly survive longer then its precedessors as well.  While the Flamberge is slower than its contemporaries, most of the configurations mount jump jets of some variety.  Of the four pod sets to date, three can jump.

   The structure is Endo-Steel, a rarity in new construction in this timeline, likely due to the ravages of the Jihad.  Powering the machine onward to glory is a 280XL engine.   Protecting the skeleton and the engine is thirteen and a half tons of standard issue plate to help save on critical spaces.  The armor placement is quite good, with the head carrying the traditional nine pointer, arms sporting 22, legs 30, side torsos split 20/10 and the center torso 31/12, totalling a single point shy of maximum.  The Pope looks down upon this armor placement, and is pleased.

   Moving onto the fixed equipment for the design we see that it has a pair of SRM 6 racks hard mounted.  Normally I grind molars when I see fixed weapons on Omnis but in this case, not so much, as the fluff gives a clear reason why those are present.  They are simply holdovers from when the partial wing design was truly present during the protoype phase and could not be removed without rebuilding most of the torso assembly and they were left in place as time was a factor.  And since those racks do provide some nice, low heat crit seeking, combined with a pretty different reason in the fluff, I’m more than happy to let it slide.

   The primary version feeds the aforementioned sixers with two tons of ammo.  Adding onto the list of armaments is a quartet of medium pulse lasers, a pair of ATM6’s with two tons of ammo.  A sextet of IJJ’s make this thing a nightmare to catch, being able to jump as far as it can run.  As the ATMs only have two tons of ammo, and the configurations build clearly indicates “infighter” I’d suggest a load of both being HE rounds to keep up your missile fire and save the SRMs for crit seeking, though I can easily see the desire to take a STD/HE mix instead.  YMMV of course.   Your alpha heat buildup is 32, 35 if you jump full distance, so totalling a +2/5 overall.  Not bad for a terrifying possibility of 88 damage if clusters and dice are really on your favor, so call it 60 point barrage.  Ewww.  The biggest negative of the design is that two jets are podded into your legs, so finding water to cool down will hamper your movement curve, though depending on the maps involved, it may not be a significant hindrance.  That said, it is something to beware of.

   The Alpha versions fluff text indicates that this was inspired by Galaxy Commander Quinn Kerensky’s preferred Summoner configuration, which is clearly the case.  The IJJ’s are back, however only mounting a quintet of them, much like the beloved Summoner. (Hey Ken’, was that pun planned?)   The right arm packs a PPC, while the highly accurate large pulse laser sits in the other arm.  Adding to the lasery doom is a three ton tarcomp sitting in a side torso to help make those shots count, even more so when in the air  The chassis locked SRM6s are joined by two more, fed by three tons of ammo in arm bins.  The heat sink load isn’t nearly strong enough to carry the day (+11 on a standing alpha)  The playstyle is fairly straightforward - Use the energy compliment to wear down a target and shower him in warheads when the armor looks thin.  Or if you feel really daring, when the time looks ripe, alpha, hope you don’t explode from heat and hopefully the other guy will either be dead or not able to effectively retaliate against you due to damage as the next turn you aren’t doing too much besides some token fire and avoiding his fire.

   The Beta podset is a solid all around contributor.  While the loadout seems strange and was considered bizzare by many Clan warriors at first, it grew to prominence when a Falcon Star Captain went mano-a-mano with a Jaguar warrior who had survived their Annihilation.  The design of course mounts the two standard issue six racks, while a trio of Plasma Cannons, one sitting in the center torso with the other two being in the arms, where a ERM rides sidecar on the cannons.  Also sitting pretty in the right torso is an ER Large, its also fitted with a TarComp to let the shots actually land.  Warload is 2 tons for the SRMs and 6 for the Plasmas.  Standard issue jets round out the movement profile.  Usage is going to vary depending on the opponent.  The Plasmas will wreck face against non-’Mech forces in a city or other tight terrain, while ‘Mechanized forces are dealing with up to 3x 2d6 heat spikes a turn, ruining their ability the strike back.  Yes, there is a cap of 15 points of heat that it can deal to the enemy, but its 15 heat points of firepower that isn’t pointed at you or your Starmates.  During this, keep pounding him with your conventional weapons while keeping your movement up.  But be sure to keep hitting him with those plasmas at all times.  At significantly overheated opponent is one that isn’t doing much to you.  Carrying a lot of extra sinks lets you keep the firepower up, but you don’t have nearly enough sinkage, as a standing alpha has you getting toasty at a +17.  That said, the warload on this bad boy is varied enough that you shouldn't’t let that affect you.

   The Charlie podset is the most unusual among the current versions in existence.  To start the shenanigans, this version has no ability to jump.  Again, the SRMs reside in the arms with a ton of ammo for each one.  The secondary weaexilpons are all backed up by a TarComp and consist of an ERL, an ERM and paired MPLs.  Supporting this is a Clan TAG.  The reason for the TAG is the Arrow IV system sitting in the center and left torso.  The possibilities of what you can do with this thing are fairly amusing, including all of the usual A4 tactics, though the best one is using your own TAG and spotting for your own A4 round.  A 20 point whack like that as a can opener before adding in the smaller lasers AND SRMs to find juicy things to break is just too amusing to not at least try once or twice.

   This ends the Omnimech portion of today’s review.  Likely one of the best, if not THE best Clan ‘Mech of 3085.  Different stylings than what we’re used to to date, varied weapons loadouts across the pods, good thick skin in the right places for an infighter.  To me, its the *perfect* ‘Mech, because chances are, I’ll have a lot of sheer fun driving one, regardless of the configuration.

   But before you say, Pope, what about the partial wing variants in 3085?  I’m glad you asked Timmy!  We’ll be covering those in just a moment.

   If you recall in the fluff, after the ‘end’ of the Jihad, the Flamberge in its original form was given birth with assistance from Wolf scientists, which lead to the Flamberge 2 and 3.  The armor profile is exactly the same (see above) however the weapons load changes dramatically for each version.  Of note though, is that the addition of a Partial Wing to the design, gives it a jump capability of 7.  Thats right, this thing can fly like a Wraith or Stooping Hawk F.  Holy Urbie help us.  On a jump, its sitting on a +4 modifier....anything that can catch it, it can probably mow down without too much sweat.

   Starting with the Flamberge 2, we can see the armament is what can be described as hyper accurate.  In the previous incarnation of the boards, the avatar of the writer/degenerate Kit_DeSummerville was the Flamberge with captioning of “And you thought the Wraith was bad...”  This is what he was referring to.  The weapons profile is what you would get if you mixed a Wraith with, say, a Black Python.  The SRM6’s are back in their arm mounts, each fed by a ton of ammo.  However, the primary weapons on the Flamberge 2 are a LPL, backed up by 4 MPLs, and a micro pulse thrown in for anti infantry ability.  With a 14[31] sink capacity, the extra three made up from the Partial Wing....a jumping alpha (discounting the micro) has you sitting at a +6 on the heat scale.  Obviously, scale the SRM’s in and out to suit based on to hits and if you need crit seeking that turn or not.  Do not want to be facing.  Gaaaah.  For those who gripe about the Hellstar, this thing should be next on your list.  This thing is rude.  Damned rude.

Moving along  now, we find the Flamberge 3, or what a Summoner C wishes it could have been.  The SRM’s are back where we expect them to be, however these are smaller quad racks fed by a single ton on the right arm.  Backing these up are a pair of MPLs, one on the RA and the other riding centerline.  A micro pulse again sits in the CT to kill squishy things in its way.  The left arm, like the aforementioned Summoner C, contains a nice boomstick by the way of a UAC20, that actually has a magazine large enough to use it.  3 tons is enough for Trials and shorter combat sessions as long as you’re judicious.  If you’re really conservative you’ll be okay for longer engagements as well.  My biggest criticism of the design is the UAC placement in the arm, though I’m honesty not sure the critical slot split or the ammo allocation could be improved...as it is, nothing to really complain about.  Again, anything that can catch this machine it can mow down with ease, but its best employed being very aggressive.  A UAC20 with this movement profile begs to be in someones back arc and used lovingly often.  For reference, a double tapped jumping Alpha leaves you at 31 heat, oddly enough, +6 on the heat scale again.

The Flamberge 2 and 3 - fun, evil little buggers courtsey of Advanced Equipment.  If you see them, pray you have Tarcomps with precision ammo, you’ll need ‘em.  Things like SG, LRMS, homing Arrow IVs, Copperhead rounds and oribital fire is

For those of why you skip to the bottom hoping for an easy summary, I give you this.  One mean Omnimech in all of its configurations, and the Advanced Tech versions are, well, just scary.  Ken, you should be proud of this monstrosity you’ve created.

Notes: For the rules regarding partial wings bonus heat dissipation, see page 295 of tacOps.  I’d also like to thank, and curse Ken for his assistance with this project.
« Last Edit: 01 April 2011, 12:26:11 by ItsTehPope »
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Moonsword

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Re: MOTE Flamberge
« Reply #1 on: 01 April 2011, 12:26:10 »
It's a solid new machine.  It doesn't quite live up to the Night Gyr's standards for payload due to being a bit smaller but what's there is used extremely well and unlike the Night Gyr, designed before the advent of improved jump jets, it can take advantage of them.  On the A, I might've used a second LPL for better heat management but the ER PPC works.  The only configuration that really draws my ire is the B but that's mainly because I don't care for massed plasma rifles.  As an execution of that concept, it's a good one.

As a side note, do look at that chart if you're dealing with different atmospheres.  The effects of the partial wing change depending on the thickness.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #2 on: 01 April 2011, 14:04:45 »
That B reminds me of the Warhawk E, but with fewer guns.  Since I like that Warhawk, I suppose that's a good thing, but I'd probably rather have seen just two Plasmas and some more something, since its a bit of a lighter mech.  Of course, unlike the PHawk veriant, plasmas are super great on an omni, because you can slap them on when you're facing armor or high heat mechs or just want to burn stuff, and take them off at the end of the day to put real weapons back on.

I'm not huge about the SRMs, fluff or no fluff.  They're so short ranged that they don't tend to go with Clan weapons and jumping mech tactics, which tend to involve range.  The given veriants did manage to use them pretty well, however, since the ATM HEs share that range and pair well, and the other jumping veriant builds on them with more SRMs, to match with the PPC and LPL for a one two punch that you can't help but like.  Even on the B, you can load infernos and really make life hard on things that burn well.  Only on the artilery model are they really a waste.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #3 on: 01 April 2011, 14:20:12 »
Oh such a pretty, pretty beastie.

I have to thank the MUL guys for egging me on to go all munchie with the 2 and 3.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #4 on: 01 April 2011, 14:55:42 »
This was a mech that I did not get when 3085 was first released, but this article really sells it to me. The Prime and the 2 are the ones I like best.


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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #5 on: 01 April 2011, 15:09:13 »
when I saw the Flambergé's stats in 3085 I was all 0_o.  It's an amazing 'mech, and a strong part of what sold me on doing a Jade Falcon unit.  In fact, I blame Ken' utterly, because Quinn Kerensky's writeup in M&M was another big contributor.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #6 on: 01 April 2011, 16:55:37 »
when I saw the Flambergé's stats in 3085 I was all 0_o.  It's an amazing 'mech, and a strong part of what sold me on doing a Jade Falcon unit.  In fact, I blame Ken' utterly, because Quinn Kerensky's writeup in M&M was another big contributor.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #7 on: 01 April 2011, 17:17:30 »
I blame the Big Aztec Guy.

With that being said, noce writeup of a very nice mech. The Flamberge is an interesting one, but I like it for that. It combines interesting fluff and good stats and gives us a pretty sweet deal as a result. It's not a mech that, in most of its confuigrations, fits with tradtional usage patterns, but rather it encourages thinking differently. Of course, that it's a cool design from my fave Clan didn't hurt either.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #8 on: 01 April 2011, 17:34:00 »
We blame Ken' regularly.

I get that impression sometimes.  He seems like the class clown of the writing staff.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #9 on: 01 April 2011, 17:38:23 »
I get that impression sometimes.  He seems like the class clown of the writing staff.

Paul is goofier than me, he just wears the company badge better in public.

And he's Dutch.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #10 on: 02 April 2011, 00:57:14 »
I love the Prime and the A, especially the A but that's probably because the Summoner G is my favourite config and the Flamberge A has the same flavour to it. The Flamberge 2 make me feel dirty just thinking about it ;D

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #11 on: 02 April 2011, 01:24:17 »
Yeah, the partial wing veriants are really, truely, nasty.  I'd take the omni, just because I like omnis and you can get fairly close if you let your inner child run free, but for canon units there's really little enough to stop the 2, save something equaly as maxed out like a Black Python or Supernova 4, or maybe a Bain 3 just by pure volume of fire so that its bound to hit from time to time enough to win out.  Does the 2 have a TC?  Its sort of implied by all the gushing praise, but its not stated.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #12 on: 02 April 2011, 01:28:41 »
Does the 2 have a TC?  Its sort of implied by all the gushing praise, but its not stated.

Sadly, no.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #13 on: 02 April 2011, 09:13:00 »
Did not like it at first, but its looks won me over.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #14 on: 02 April 2011, 11:03:23 »
Ah, the Flamberge. Not optimized enough that I feel bad using it (the 2 notwithstanding), but effective enough that I don't constantly wish it was fifteen tons heavier or that the Night Gyr didn't have fixed jets.  My only big gripe is about the SRM placement. In my mind, there is no way those are in the arms. Above the arms, perhaps. Near the arms, sure. But not in them. Thinking about torso-twisting and then shooting something behind your 'mech is just too weird. I bet that with a little adjustment of the ES crits you could even make most of the same configurations work with the SRMs torso-mounted. Granted, they're more effective in the arms, but the contradiction with the art bugs me.

Overall, a great article. A couple of things I noticed:

The biggest negative of the design is that two jets are podded into your legs, so finding water to cool down will hamper your movement curve, though depending on the maps involved, it may not be a significant hindrance.  That said, it is something to beware of.

It's even worse than that. Putting the jets in the legs means that there aren't any heat sinks there, so depth 1 water doesn't cool you down at all. One of the best things about Clan tech is that you can use DHS and still get extra heat dissipation in depth 1 water, and this almost gleefully ignores that. On the other hand, since there's no heat benefit to water, there's less call to jump into it, so the fact that you lose mobility there doesn't really come up. Silver linings and all that.

The Plasmas will wreck face against non-’Mech forces in a city or other tight terrain, while ‘Mechanized forces are dealing with up to 3x 2d6 heat spikes a turn, ruining their ability the strike back.

Care to elaborate on this? It seems to me that plasma cannons have pretty fantastic range for a 3-ton gun. I'm not seeing what tight terrain has to do with it.

If you recall in the fluff, after the ‘end’ of the Jihad, the Flamberge in its original form was given birth with assistance from Wolf scientists, which lead to the Flamberge 2 and 3.

Alas, Clan Jade Wolf, we hardly knew ye. And, if stuff like this is any indication, our data/mechfiles folder is poorer for your demise. Or better, depending on which end of the giant jumping boomstick you're on.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #15 on: 02 April 2011, 12:21:27 »
Great article! The Flamberge is a great mech and I have been shocked. I have learned about the Flamberge 2 and 3 right now. Yeah, they make the Wraith look boring... :o :o :o
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #16 on: 02 April 2011, 18:38:27 »
This mech and the turkina with talons almost made me want to play jade falcons too.
It just looks like so much fun in all its variations. I can even see the point behind the C considering that the hells horses have moved in beside the falcons not to mention the lyran alliance which has some truly nasty vehicles themselves.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #17 on: 03 April 2011, 00:51:55 »
Alas, Clan Jade Wolf, we hardly knew ye. And, if stuff like this is any indication, our data/mechfiles folder is poorer for your demise.

Ufff, the design isn't that old. M&M talks about the Faclons going raiding for Wolf scientists after the Blakists knocked many of theirs off.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #18 on: 03 April 2011, 01:46:44 »
So is there actually a Flamberge (Standard) ? The MUL mentions it, but no sign of its record sheet.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #19 on: 03 April 2011, 07:16:21 »
Ufff, the design isn't that old. M&M talks about the Faclons going raiding for Wolf scientists after the Blakists knocked many of theirs off.


Oh good. I was worried the Falcons had asked for help or something.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #20 on: 03 April 2011, 07:36:39 »

Oh good. I was worried the Falcons had asked for help or something.

Like THAT would ever happen.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #21 on: 03 April 2011, 07:57:52 »
Ufff, the design isn't that old. M&M talks about the Faclons going raiding for Wolf scientists after the Blakists knocked many of theirs off.

Oh, I know that. But if the Flamberge 2 is what happens when the Wolves help the Falcons tweak a design when it's mostly working anyway...

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #22 on: 03 April 2011, 08:19:45 »
So is there actually a Flamberge (Standard) ? The MUL mentions it, but no sign of its record sheet.

Not that I'm aware of. That was probably an error.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #23 on: 04 April 2011, 06:39:54 »
Paul is goofier than me, he just wears the company badge better in public.

And he's Dutch.

You mean as opposed to the Precentor of Lies merit badge?

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #24 on: 04 April 2011, 18:05:00 »
Do Not Like.  What was wrong with the Summoner?  What ever happened to the "quick-striking hammer to follow up a rapid advance," from the original TRO: 3050?  Clan Heavies should move 5/8 or better.  The trend towards 4/6 pocket Assaults makes me sad.  Yes, I know we border on the Lyrans, whose fetish for Assault 'Mechs is legendary, and some will argue that the times and tactics have changed and that we've had to adapt to a more defensive style of warfare.  My counter-argument is you don't have to adapt if you murder your enemy and break all his toys if he even so much as thinks about taking your stuff.  Or you just kick in the door periodically and break all his stuff and rough him up, even if you aren't sure whether he is casting covetous eyes on your stuff, to keep him on the defensive and terrified of when your next Incursion will be. 

It would have been a fine design for lesser Clans like the Wolves or the Ghost Bears, but not for the Jade Falcons. 
« Last Edit: 04 April 2011, 18:13:02 by E. Icaza »
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #25 on: 04 April 2011, 18:30:33 »
Do Not Like.  What was wrong with the Summoner?  What ever happened to the "quick-striking hammer to follow up a rapid advance," from the original TRO: 3050? 

That is the Summoner.

The Flamberge isn't. It's different. The Falcons have both, using one does not preclude the other. Just because you have a BMW doesn't mean a pick-up doesn't have its uses.

If you prefer a reprint of the Summoner, feel free to print out the relevant pages from 3050U over the Flamberge pages in 3085.
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E. Icaza

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #26 on: 04 April 2011, 18:45:04 »
That is the Summoner.

The Flamberge isn't. It's different. The Falcons have both, using one does not preclude the other. Just because you have a BMW doesn't mean a pick-up doesn't have its uses.


Agreed, but why spend the resources to design and build yet another 4/6 pocket Assault 'Mech when we have the Night Gyr (which I'm also not a fan of) and could be building those or even better yet...more Summoners?  I don't see the role the Flamberge fills that can't be filled by an already existing OmniMech that we already produce or that we can't take from someone else if we need it.  Silly Clan scientists and their need to continually re-invent the wheel... 

Quote
If you prefer a reprint of the Summoner, feel free to print out the relevant pages from 3050U over the Flamberge pages in 3085.

Since I don't have the book in question, that would be quite impossible, but thanks for the advice.  I'll just settle for not using one.   ;)

I will grant that it is a good-looking 'Mech however.


Edit:  It's the Improved Jump Jets, right?  We designed an entirely new OmniMech just because we wanted to play with Improved Jump Jets.   :P   If only there was a design that we could have taken from a bunch of traitors that had plenty of space for IJJ...coughNovaCatcough.
« Last Edit: 04 April 2011, 18:53:54 by E. Icaza »
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #27 on: 04 April 2011, 18:53:10 »
I don't see the role the Flamberge fills that can't be filled by an already existing OmniMech that we already produce or that we can't take from someone else if we need it.

Well, the 4/6/7 role.  :D
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #28 on: 04 April 2011, 18:55:58 »
Well, the 4/6/7 role.  :D

As above, we kill Nova Cats and take the Nova Cat specs.  We rename it to something less treasonous (I like the name Harbinger or Warlock*, but hey whatever floats your boat) and we're good to go.

See, I should be a Clan Scientist... 

*Unless Charlie Sheen has irrevocably tainted the word warlock...
« Last Edit: 04 April 2011, 18:57:58 by E. Icaza »
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #29 on: 04 April 2011, 18:57:29 »
but why spend the resources to design and build yet another (...) 'Mech when we have the (...) and could be building those

If that logic would be followed, BTU would be  poorer for about 80-90% 'Mechs  ;)

 

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