Author Topic: MOTW: Flamberge  (Read 27318 times)

E. Icaza

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #30 on: 04 April 2011, 18:59:25 »
If that logic would be followed, BTU would be  poorer for about 80-90% 'Mechs  ;)

I'm cool with that.  There are too many 'Mechs as it is and there has been since about 3055 or so.
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Ruger

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #31 on: 04 April 2011, 19:01:06 »
As above, we kill Nova Cats and take the Nova Cat specs.  We rename it to something less treasonous (I like the name Harbinger, but hey whatever floats your boat) and we're good to go.

See, I should be a Clan Scientist...

To do so, you'd have to travel through at least two enemy territories, if not three or more. Why go to that expense to perhaps fail in the trial (or along the way), not to mention how long you would have to tie up fairly significant military resources, when you can design your own, thus making it your own 'Mech, and not someone else's?

 ???

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E. Icaza

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #32 on: 04 April 2011, 19:06:24 »
To do so, you'd have to travel through at least two enemy territories, if not three or more. Why go to that expense to perhaps fail in the trial (or along the way), not to mention how long you would have to tie up fairly significant military resources, when you can design your own, thus making it your own 'Mech, and not someone else's?

 ???

Ruger

Because defeating your enemies and taking their stuff, especially if they're traitors to the Way of the Clans, is more Clan-like IMO.  Bonus points are earned for taking a totem 'Mech from a traitor faction, re-naming it and daring them to come do something about it.  Or we could have gone the lame route and bought it from the Diamond Sharks, like everyone else does.
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Ruger

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #33 on: 04 April 2011, 19:15:28 »
Because defeating your enemies and taking their stuff, especially if they're traitors to the Way of the Clans, is more Clan-like IMO.  Bonus points are earned for taking a totem 'Mech from a traitor faction, re-naming it and daring them to come do something about it.  Or we could have gone the lame route and bought it from the Diamond Sharks, like everyone else does.

The Nova Cat is not a totem 'Mech.

As to the rest, as you will...but also remember that some of the research for the Flamberge had been in existence for more than a decade by the time of TRO:3085...

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E. Icaza

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #34 on: 04 April 2011, 19:30:43 »
The Nova Cat is not a totem 'Mech.

As to the rest, as you will...but also remember that some of the research for the Flamberge had been in existence for more than a decade by the time of TRO:3085...

Ruger

True, I forgot that it was built from a failed Partial-Wing experimental prototype.  That would make it barely acceptable since some of the work would have been already done.  Waste not, want not, after all.  But you'll excuse me if I'm not interested in piloting something with the words "failed prototype" in the description.

[IC]The Chalchiuhtotolin and now this.  By the Founder, you have got to keep a close eye on those science types or they will really waste your research Kerenskies.  I still do not have my Streak LRMs or ER Pulse Lasers, you slack surats. [/IC]
« Last Edit: 04 April 2011, 19:34:14 by E. Icaza »
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #35 on: 04 April 2011, 19:39:25 »
I still do not have my Streak LRMs or ER Pulse Lasers, you slack surats. [/IC]

Buy a copy of TRO 3085 and I'll put both of them in the next TRO for ya.
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E. Icaza

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #36 on: 04 April 2011, 19:42:46 »
Buy a copy of TRO 3085 and I'll put both of them in the next TRO for ya.

Hmmm, I'll admit I'm tempted.  I could always cut out the pages with the Manei Domini...   :-\

Dammit, compromise always feels so...unClan.   :(

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #37 on: 04 April 2011, 19:45:30 »
It'll be a Jade Falcon 'Mech, too, no bait and switch here.
Something different than the Flamberge, though. Definitely something of a Summoner in it.
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E. Icaza

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #38 on: 04 April 2011, 19:53:03 »
It'll be a Jade Falcon 'Mech, too, no bait and switch here.
Something different than the Flamberge, though. Definitely something of a Summoner in it.

[/Sigh]  Alright, you win.  One of my players was going to use his tax returns to get it, TRO: 3075, Total Warfare, ATOW and an Intro Box Set for a DA/AoD ATOW campaign I'm running anyway, since his character pilots a Ghost
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Diplominator

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #39 on: 04 April 2011, 20:13:01 »
The thing with the Flamberge is that depending on the configuration, it can be comfortable in medium, heavy, or assault stars, so a single design can fill a lot of holes in the touman.  The Summoner can't really do that; it's a little too slow to work with medium stars, and way too undergunned to run with the assaults. Honestly, I find it too undergunned to run with the heavies these days. Stuff like the Flamberge, Night Gyr, Timber Wolf, Sphinx, Karhu, etc. will completely eat it alive. They're all either faster or better armed or both.

The Nova Cat thing is a good point, though. Aside from better rear armor, fixed SRMs, and ES crit placement, the mechs are identical. Wasn't the Nova Cat based on the Night Gyr in the first place? The Nova Cat F gives the Flamberge 2 some competition for meanest 'mech in existence, although I think the partial wing beats the second LPL.

Daishi411

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #40 on: 04 April 2011, 20:20:15 »
if a summoner is to slow to run in a medium star, you think a flamberge will keep up better?
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Diplominator

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #41 on: 04 April 2011, 20:34:39 »
if a summoner is to slow to run in a medium star, you think a flamberge will keep up better?
Sure. I'll take 4/6/6 over 5/8/5 any day, and if it's one of the 4/6/7 versions it's not even a contest. I suppose you have a point, though.

Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #42 on: 04 April 2011, 20:58:42 »
[/Sigh]  Alright, you win.  One of my players was going to use his tax returns to get it, TRO: 3075, Total Warfare, ATOW and an Intro Box Set for a DA/AoD ATOW campaign I'm running anyway, since his character pilots a Ghost.

Bargained well and done!  ;)
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jklantern

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #43 on: 04 April 2011, 21:01:29 »
Bargained well and done!  ;)

If I buy more stuff, do I get to suggest a technology and faction what gets it for the next TRO?
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #44 on: 04 April 2011, 21:20:18 »
If I buy more stuff, do I get to suggest a technology and faction what gets it for the next TRO?

Sure. Buy 125 copies of Handbook: House Liao and I'll let you pick something for the next TRO.
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ItsTehPope

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #45 on: 04 April 2011, 21:45:50 »
Sure. Buy 125 copies of Handbook: House Liao and I'll let you pick something for the next TRO.
[/quote

Hmm....what do I need to do to get a new Urbie made....
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #46 on: 04 April 2011, 21:49:50 »
Hmm....what do I need to do to get a new Urbie made....

Even with a partial wing, it won't get as cool as the Flamberge.
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ItsTehPope

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #47 on: 04 April 2011, 21:59:32 »
Even with a partial wing, it won't get as cool as the Flamberge.

Oh no argument.  But it'd be awesome. 
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ShockaTime

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #48 on: 04 April 2011, 22:19:46 »
Oh no argument.  But it'd be awesome.

it is, I made an urbie with a partial wing, it's not the best mech in the world but it's truly good times [rockon]

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Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #49 on: 04 April 2011, 22:36:17 »
Regarding the Summoner talk earlier, I find the Summoner, like the Falconer, to be more useful on open or mixed terrain.

In broken terrain or close range combat, I think the Flamberge is more at home. If you can't use that 8 hex run to get a +3, you lose a lot from those other 'Mechs. With the heavier armor and bigger payload, the Flamberge can do better as the 'bouncer' that some people use the other two for. It doesn't have to use the IJJs, as shown by some of the configs, but I think it does a lot better using them.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #50 on: 04 April 2011, 22:38:54 »
Hmm....what do I need to do to get a new Urbie made....

We canonized the nuclear throwing Urbie, go away...

:)
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #51 on: 05 April 2011, 00:03:01 »
Hmm....what do I need to do to get a new Urbie made....

Give me money for some of the 125 copies of Handbook:  House Liao.  I'll put in a good word for you.
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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #52 on: 05 April 2011, 01:22:01 »
Man, if I knew that I could bribe my way into a TRO, Clan Mongoose would have a hell of a lot better than the Great Wyrm to brag about, I tell you what.

As for the Summoner, it will always have a place in my heart, and in my heavy cav stars.  I definatly think the Flamberges with the working wings are a suitable deviation from either the Night Gyr or Summoner to be worth it, but as some one who's not much of an IJJ fan, the omni does have an air of the redundancy to it.  As Kit correctly argues, like all IJJ mechs the Flamberge does best in situations where you're going to be jumping constantly anyway, while the Summoner gains an advantage when it can jump sometimes and run or walk other times.  Veriants like the Summoner D are better on that platform, since being able to cruse back five hexes and take a super accurate shot with the LLs is oh so nice, and that extra MP there gives it a meaningful edge (or in walking foward, or any other direction, since jumping tends to spoil extreem range shots, TC or not).  But a Flamberge take on the Summoner C would likely be better (though not as good as the Night Gyr A, which is really super fantastic).

In a lot of ways, it does make a nice compermise.  Its a bit faster than the glow in the dark pocket assualt, to please more traditional Falcons, but its got a few more guns and a bit more armor, to please people who like to hurt other people with their guns. 

Fix the ammo alotment problems on the Summoner, though, and I'll still take one in any era you care to name.  I take it as is, problems and all, after all!
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #53 on: 05 April 2011, 07:25:02 »
Man, if I knew that I could bribe my way into a TRO, Clan Mongoose would have a hell of a lot better than the Great Wyrm to brag about, I tell you what.


What, you didn't like the Chippewa IIC?
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Moonsword

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #54 on: 05 April 2011, 08:55:24 »
I did, personally.  That particular descendant of the Chippewa is a demonstration of what well-used Clantech can do.  If my math's right, it's not even using an XLFE.  Makes me wonder what the Mongooses favored for a medium.  Their Quicksilver Mongoose (better known as the Chaeronea) was quite acceptable for a budget light, kind of a Seydlitz IIC in style.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #55 on: 05 April 2011, 11:25:16 »
I did, personally.  That particular descendant of the Chippewa is a demonstration of what well-used Clantech can do.  If my math's right, it's not even using an XLFE.  Makes me wonder what the Mongooses favored for a medium.  Their Quicksilver Mongoose (better known as the Chaeronea) was quite acceptable for a budget light, kind of a Seydlitz IIC in style.

Just a quick note, the Chaeronea was the Striking Mongoose, the Quicksilver Mongoose was their Du Shi Wang warship.

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #56 on: 05 April 2011, 12:00:28 »
Considering that I did that without looking at a reference, I'd say I got pretty close.  I'd still like to know what their preferred mediums were, but I imagine we'll find out if and when they get around to releasing a Clan faction list for that time period.

Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #57 on: 05 April 2011, 16:02:28 »
Just a quick note, the Chaeronea was the Striking Mongoose, the Quicksilver Mongoose was their Du Shi Wang warship.

Oh good, I was so confused.
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ShockaTime

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #58 on: 05 April 2011, 16:04:46 »
Oh good, I was so confused.

no kidding, I was completely lost! i'm glad i wasn't the only one :P

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jklantern

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Re: MOTW: Flamberge
« Reply #59 on: 05 April 2011, 17:26:13 »
Oh good, I was so confused.

Wait, isn't your job to unconfuse the rest of us?  Should I be worried?
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