BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Designs and Rules => BattleMechs => Topic started by: wellspring on 07 January 2013, 13:47:30

Title: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: wellspring on 07 January 2013, 13:47:30
Based on this (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,25551.0.html) thread. Here are my ideas. All three are intended for a WoB Waneta LAM design. Fluff included for your pleasure.

The Blakists were never successful with their Land-Air Mech designs, despite their best efforts. In particular, the Word scientists struggled with the same problem that plagued Star League-era designs: the lack of room for adequate weaponry. In the end, the Blakists opted to use clan technology to maximize firepower. However along the way, several alternatives had been explored and rejected.

One of the most promising of these approaches was to equip their LAMs with hand-held weapons, a then-recent Federated Suns innovation. The concept was tested extensively, and the Word of Blake even went so far as to turn out several manufacturing runs of handhelds before abandoning the concept. This unused cache was uncovered at Luyten, and Republic intelligence officers were eventually able to piece together the story. The weapons had been quite effective, especially once they were upgraded to clantech as part of the general LAM effort.

However, the Blakist LAMs were used primarily in commando strikes, a role ill-suited to the drawbacks of hand-helds. In particular, the problem of transporting the weapons into battle was never solved. Having the LAMs carry them as cargo defeated the purpose of having a hand-held in the first place. Dropping them in cargo containers or shuttling them down was deemed impractical. Ultimately, despite the pilots' objections, mission planners abandoned the concept and the weapons were mothballed, never having actually been deployed in combat. The hand-held concept survived only in the visual appearance of the Waneta's fixed main weapon.

The Blakist scientists had discovered very early on that missile launchers out-performed direct-fire weapons by a considerable margin, especially since the kind of fast in-and-out commando strikes conducted by LAMs emphasized quick bursts of high-intensity firepower over sustained slugging matches. The limited ammunition was discovered to have another advantage; once emptied, a captured weapon posed little threat to the LAM pilot who dropped it.


Oddly, one weapon that wasn't found in the Word of Blake cache was a hand-held weapon based on the Rocket Launcher. Apparently, scientists on the hand-held project had been given access to clan technology as part of the authorization for the entire LAM project and became fixated on the cachet of the stolen clan tech. The project leaders, already facing cancellation, also feared that by reverting to Inner Sphere weapons they would draw attention to themselves. Ironically, junior scientists interviewed by Republic intelligence reported that simple, cheap rocket launchers significantly outperformed the more sophisticated clan weapons. Two versions were conceived, but never produced. One used eighty five rockets. The other, a "pistol" design, would fire only fifty rockets, but could be carried and used in one hand.

Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 07 January 2013, 14:42:28
Two other Waneta Handheld ideas:


Patron MilitiaMech - 3x Rocket Launcher 10 pods. Enemy unit walks past hidden Patron, Patron steps out of cover and bombards enemy unit's rear.

Buster w/iTSM (2 hands, ten tons capacity)

Sokuryou SurveyMech (2 hands, 2.5 tons capacity)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Maingunnery on 07 January 2013, 15:08:16



Gatling - RAC5 with 1 tons of ammo and protected by 1 ton of armor.  [12 tons]

Shotgun - LGauss with 1 ton of ammo and protected by 1 ton of armor.  [12 tons]

LRM25 - Five LRM5s with 1 ton of ammo and protected by 1 ton of armor.  [12 tons]

MML7P(istol) - MML7 with 1 tons of ammo, and protected by half a ton of armor.   [6 tons]
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: ProtoEva00 on 07 January 2013, 17:06:57
Well, hand helds are how a Veritech does it, so it's not a new idea, but the problems I found when trying to make a work around, is how do you carry it into battle?  You would have to walk (or bounce) there, cause as soon as you go into aerospace mode, you'd have to drop it.  Aerospace fighters have no hands to carry it, and LAMs are prohibited from wing mounts, you'd have to carry it internally, and then, what's the point?

About the only thing I could think of, is a airdrop from a separate aircraft accompanying the LAM to it's destination.

Another problem, you would have to redesign the Waneta to mount all of it's hard mounted weapons in the legs to be able to use them, and the handheld at the same time.  Interestingly, this would leave you with no weapons in the forward arc, while in fighter mode, because leg mounted weapons go to the rear arc on a LAM.



Gatling - RAC5 with 1 tons of ammo and protected by 1 ton of armor.  [12 tons]

Shotgun - LGauss with 1 ton of ammo and protected by 1 ton of armor.  [12 tons]

LRM25 - Five LRM5s with 1 ton of ammo and protected by 1 ton of armor.  [12 tons]

MML7P(istol) - MML7 with 1 tons of ammo, and protected by half a ton of armor.   [6 tons]


Hand helds are restricted to 10% of the mechs tonnage, and the Waneta, largest of LAMs, is 55 tons.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Maingunnery on 07 January 2013, 17:20:11
Hand helds are restricted to 10% of the mechs tonnage, and the Waneta, largest of LAMs, is 55 tons.
The limit is 20% if using TSM. Also I am intending them for a 60 ton industrial mech with industrial TSM.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: ProtoEva00 on 07 January 2013, 17:29:02
The limit is 20% if using TSM. Also I am intending them for a 60 ton industrial mech with industrial TSM.

Was actualy researching that, and you beat me to it.  Yes, TSM will double carry tonnage, and TSM is one of the only crit fillers that are permited on LAMs (long as it's all in the same location)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: wellspring on 07 January 2013, 17:36:57
Just to clarify, while my ideas were fixed on the Waneta-- because LAMs desperately need the additional firepower-- the point of the thread is to be open to handheld ideas of all kinds.

One thing that came up frequently in the parent thread was the idea of using IndustrialMechs (especially those with ITSM). Handhelds are intended for this purpose to give militia a battlemech-like capability even though they don't have actual battlemechs. So you get to augment your forces with loadermechs and agrimechs and constructionmechs that normally wouldn't have a military use at all. Among these kinds of mechs, 60-tonners with ITSM will be quite common.

For LAMs, as my fluff explained, the issues ProtoEva identified resulted in the project being terminated without ever being deployed in battle. The question of how you get the hand-held into battle in the first place is trickier than it sounds. Plus you lose your main weapons while you're carrying it. So the idea isn't to augment existing firepower, but to give either a disposable nova capability (the RL is ideal for this) or a way to deploy special capabilities without using omni tech or compromising the already limited weapons selection (that's what the LRM does).

I included the SRM and ATM versions partly to illustrate that the benefits might be more psychological than substantive.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Atlan on 07 January 2013, 18:53:30
I remember hearing that there was a rule that allowed Aerospace fighters to mount extra weapons (bombs) externally. If that's an actual rule, and not a homebrew rule, it could give a way for a LAM to mount a hand-held weapon.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: wellspring on 07 January 2013, 21:47:38
The hardpoints rule doesn't apply to LAMs.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Feign on 08 January 2013, 01:48:00
Having a support aircraft drop locked cargo containers with the various weapons as the LAMs enter the field is one way to get them into play.  Of course a few decoy crates each filled with a big booby trap would make for a pretty good deterrent to enemy forces picking up the weapons for themselves (or standing anywhere near the crates, for that matter).
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 08 January 2013, 07:13:56
Theoretical 100 ton IndustrialMech with iTSM (20 ton max):


Edit 2013/01/17 Actually I don't know that the PPC versions are legal. I think they might exceed the available critical slots. Same with the multiple LAC/RAC weapons. Edit 2013/02/08 They don't. Yay!

For the Buster with iTSM (10 ton max):

For the Buster without iTSM (5 ton max):
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 11 January 2013, 08:24:58
Thinking about it, is there any reason you cant put a cargo lift on a LAM?
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: wellspring on 11 January 2013, 08:33:25
Thinking about it, is there any reason you cant put a cargo lift on a LAM?

Well, one would be that we don't have construction rules for LAMs :)

I'm surprised there isn't a rule about handheld tonnage restrictions not being influenced by lift hoists.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 11 January 2013, 08:35:42
Well, one would be that we don't have construction rules for LAMs :)

I'm surprised there isn't a rule about handheld tonnage restrictions not being influenced by lift hoists.
You need both hand actuators to fire it, so the rules for carrying cargo in your hands come into play.

Nothing wrong with using lift hoists to tote the things around, though.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Vanadius on 11 January 2013, 09:34:15
Well, one would be that we don't have construction rules for LAMs :)

I'm surprised there isn't a rule about handheld tonnage restrictions not being influenced by lift hoists.

There is a ruling, at least.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,25818.msg588537.html#msg588537
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Cowdragon on 12 January 2013, 21:53:10
neat thread. Neat ideas. What is "iTSM" though? Improved???
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: wellspring on 12 January 2013, 22:20:41
neat thread. Neat ideas. What is "iTSM" though? Improved???

Industrial TSM. TechManual p240-241.

It's basically IndustrialMech-only TSM that doesn't have a heat requirement and benefits lifting only.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: MrJake on 13 January 2013, 03:31:51
So, is there anything that can't be put into a HHW?
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 14 January 2013, 07:06:14
So, is there anything that can't be put into a HHW?
Only weapons, weapon augmentations (like Artemis/Apollo), and TAG can be carried. Each HHW has 6 equipment slots. Assign weapons like vehicles (energy weapons needs heat sinks, Ballistic/Missile weapons don't), Single Heat sinks only, armor available in 1 ton/half ton lots. Ammunition for weapons can be allocated per shot rather than by per ton (like Battle Armor or ProtoMechs). Max weight of weapon and all components = 10% of 'Mech weight; 20% for active TSM.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: MrJake on 14 January 2013, 20:09:04
AFB, but doesn't one of the examples mention using a chainsaw? So does "weapons" in this case also include "things that can be used as weapons"?
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Korzon77 on 15 January 2013, 01:32:09
I've wondered-why do hand weapons need heat sinks?  They're exposed and so they woudln' be venting heat back into the mech.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 15 January 2013, 07:06:33
AFB, but doesn't one of the examples mention using a chainsaw? So does "weapons" in this case also include "things that can be used as weapons"?
Yes, but you can only have 1 physical/melee weapon in a HHW IIRC. See the latest errata document for details.

I've wondered-why do hand weapons need heat sinks?  They're exposed and so they woudln' be venting heat back into the mech.
For the same reason your computer needs a heat sink on the CPU (and maybe GPU): To prevent the heat from the weapon frying the control circuits.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: wellspring on 15 January 2013, 11:04:52
Which reminds me of another use for handhelds: style points. In fact, that's probably their main use.

What's worse than a Lyran scout lance? When all four Atlases fire up their chainsaws.  :D
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: MrJake on 15 January 2013, 21:09:19
Yes, but you can only have 1 physical/melee weapon in a HHW IIRC. See the latest errata document for details.


Two things:

1. Where do I find errata documents?

2. Since most/many of the tools used by iMechs can be used as a melee weapon, then couldn't a single iMech that could use HHWs do, well, just about any job? A 35 tonner with iTSM and a lift hoist could carry 35 tons of various "tools" (five different ones up to 7 tons each in this case) and just deploy whatever it needed as a HHW?
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Korzon77 on 16 January 2013, 01:51:10
See the latest errata document for details.
For the same reason your computer needs a heat sink on the CPU (and maybe GPU): To prevent the heat from the weapon frying the control circuits.

True, but the problem with a mech is that all that heat is within a heavily armored body--and because of that, it needs a way to radiate out faster than it naturally would-- hence, heat sinks.

A HW weapon could be designed so the heat is radiated far more effeciently, requiring less in the way of dedicated heatsinks, albeit possibly at the cost of some armor protection.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 16 January 2013, 07:56:55
Two things:

1. Where do I find errata documents?

2. Since most/many of the tools used by iMechs can be used as a melee weapon, then couldn't a single iMech that could use HHWs do, well, just about any job? A 35 tonner with iTSM and a lift hoist could carry 35 tons of various "tools" (five different ones up to 7 tons each in this case) and just deploy whatever it needed as a HHW?
1. The  main errata page on bg.battletech.com (http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=25) or the  Errata Forum (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?board=82.0). In this case the Tactical Operations Errata (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18161.0.html) posting.

2. I think the answer is no, because the tools you mention are considered melee weapons. Which means that you can only fit one into a HHW. I think.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 16 January 2013, 07:59:36
True, but the problem with a mech is that all that heat is within a heavily armored body--and because of that, it needs a way to radiate out faster than it naturally would-- hence, heat sinks.

A HW weapon could be designed so the heat is radiated far more effeciently, requiring less in the way of dedicated heatsinks, albeit possibly at the cost of some armor protection.
In universe answer: Maybe the heat sinks that we're required to add are the more efficient way of doing it.

Out of universe answer #1: I think it's an attempt to keep the number of rules down by reusing ones players are familiar with from vehicle construction.

Out of universe answer #2: It's a game and we should be focused on shooting things. ;)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 16 January 2013, 08:27:49
For the Buster with iTSM (10 ton max):

For the Buster without iTSM (5 ton max):

I chose these because I think there are probably a lot of these weapons just lying around in a storage depot somewhere, particularly after 3050. The AC/2 and AC/5 have been superseded by LB-X, Ultra, Light, and Rotary versions, but it doesn't make sense to just throw them away. So they're probably going to be assigned to planetary militia units.

MRMs are another example. They aren't really used on a lot of front-line units, but they're still effective in their niche. So rather than have them consigned to the scrap heap, I imagine they'd go to militia units. The Rocket Launcher isn't a particularly difficult weapon to produce either. Since it's basically an overgrown bottle rocket, I imagine almost any planet could build them.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Maingunnery on 16 January 2013, 12:27:30

Does chemical laser ammo use equipment slots?
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: idea weenie on 16 January 2013, 13:41:19
For a disposable hand-held 'weapon' for LAMs (they fly down, and meet a small shuttle carrying their weapons), I present the Vandal style HHW:

5 tons total mass
Fluid Gun - 2 tons
ammo - 3 tons

Yes, a Mech-sized spray can so the LAM pilots can put up graffiti everywhere they've been.   :D

(Also a tag so I can find this thread later.  Several ideas in here look very nice.)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 16 January 2013, 16:31:54
Does chemical laser ammo use equipment slots?
They're treated just like autocannon and missile launchers so yes no. (Just looked at the HHW record sheet in XTRO:Corps and the ammo isn't listed as taking up an equipment slot.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Suralin on 16 January 2013, 16:49:35
Most interesting. I'm gonna keep an eye on this thread, there are some pretty good ideas in here.

*draws up plans for a handheld ChemBlazer*
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: wellspring on 16 January 2013, 16:59:54
We have mech-scale Tasers, why not mech-scale Mace?

ps Isn't "Taser" a registered trademark? I thought we're supposed to use "electroshock weapon" for it. And "pepper spray" for Mace.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Cowdragon on 16 January 2013, 19:22:42
LOL, it would be cool to fly down from space with a LAM, nail another mech with a taser, and proceed to kick the snot out of the shutdown target for a couple rounds, and then fly away back to space. That would be a pretty effective use of LAMs on a battlefield, right? :)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: MrJake on 16 January 2013, 21:12:51
1. The  main errata page on bg.battletech.com (http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=25) or the  Errata Forum (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?board=82.0). In this case the Tactical Operations Errata (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18161.0.html) posting.

2. I think the answer is no, because the tools you mention are considered melee weapons. Which means that you can only fit one into a HHW. I think.

Thanks for the links!

As for #2, tho, I actually meant each as a separate HHW. With a lift hoist and iTSM, an iMech could carry a bunch of them (basically a tool kit), and use which one you need for the job. I'm referring to Out of Combat, of course.

Anyway, just an idea.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 17 January 2013, 07:07:06
We have mech-scale Tasers, why not mech-scale Mace?
We do have it. Fluid Guns + Inferno Gel or Corrosive ammo. ;)

Thanks for the links!

As for #2, tho, I actually meant each as a separate HHW. With a lift hoist and iTSM, an iMech could carry a bunch of them (basically a tool kit), and use which one you need for the job. I'm referring to Out of Combat, of course.

Anyway, just an idea.
Ah. That's a good idea. Can't see any reason it wouldn't work.

And to get back on topic:

For the Hunchback (5 tons): 2xLRM-5, 1 ton ammo. Allows the Hunchback to get in some long range firepower before it unleashes the AC/20. More a harassment weapon than anything. (This same weapon could be equipped with special munitions and used by Hunchbacks, Shadow Hawks, Griffins, etc. to clear/lay minefields.)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Suralin on 20 January 2013, 21:04:40
Code: [Select]
Equipment Tonnage Canon

---Heavy MML Weapon (12T)---
2 MML-7s 9
@MML7 (SRM) (14) 1
@MML7 (LRM) (17) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Heavy MRM Weapon (12T)---
MRM-30 10
@MRM (8) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light Streak Weapon (6T)---
SSRM-6 4.5
@Streak (15) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light MML Weapon (6T)---
MML-7 4.5
@MML (17/14) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Disposable Rocket Launcher (5T)---
3 RL/20s 4.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light Laser Weapon (5T)---
MLAS 1
3 SHS 3
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light AC Weapon (5T)---
LAC/2 4
@LAC/2 (22) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Small Laser Pistol (3T)---
erSLAS 0.5
2 SHS 2
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---SRM Launcher (3T)---
SRM-4 2
@SRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---LRM Launcher (3T)---
LRM-5 2
@LRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Machine Gun (3T)---
4 MGs 2
@MG (100) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5

I left out the ones I came up with that have non-canon weapons in them (e.g. LAC-10, ChemBlazer, dual iMRifle)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 21 January 2013, 10:27:39
Code: [Select]
Equipment Tonnage Canon

---Heavy MML Weapon (12T)---
2 MML-7s 9
@MML7 (SRM) (14) 1
@MML7 (LRM) (17) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Heavy MRM Weapon (12T)---
MRM-30 10
@MRM (8) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light Streak Weapon (6T)---
SSRM-6 4.5
@Streak (15) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light MML Weapon (6T)---
MML-7 4.5
@MML (17/14) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Disposable Rocket Launcher (5T)---
3 RL/20s 4.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light Laser Weapon (5T)---
MLAS 1
3 SHS 3
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light AC Weapon (5T)---
LAC/2 4
@LAC/2 (22) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Small Laser Pistol (3T)---
erSLAS 0.5
2 SHS 2
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---SRM Launcher (3T)---
SRM-4 2
@SRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---LRM Launcher (3T)---
LRM-5 2
@LRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Machine Gun (3T)---
4 MGs 2
@MG (100) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5

I left out the ones I came up with that have non-canon weapons in them (e.g. LAC-10, ChemBlazer, dual iMRifle)

Ah! Thanks! The big problem is that I can't remember if heat sinks take up critical slots in the HHW.

Edit: They don't. Yay!
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 25 January 2013, 07:13:55
Just had another thought: In any of the HHWs above, replace the SRM/LRM with equivalent torpedo systems.

Here's one for a Panther: (3.5 ton HHW)

1x LRT-5
1 ton ammo
0.5 tons armor

Could be really useful alongside that Hatamoto frogman variant from XTRO:Kurita or TRO Prototypes.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 29 January 2013, 07:30:49
While I'm thinking of it, here's one for a BattleMaster (8.5 tons):

Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Wolf72 on 04 February 2013, 21:01:27
just some clarification ... you don't have to load a weapon with a full ton of ammo (like a LAC-2 with 45 shots).  You could voluntarily make it less ... say like 5 shots, but would the weight of the ammo still be 1 ton? (I'm inclined to say yes)

in the LRM-15 example, could you voluntarily have only 3 shots ... I'd feel a lot less guilty about dropping my HHW and opening up with everything else.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Suralin on 04 February 2013, 22:52:11
You can have it with less than a full ton of shots, yes. And it doesn't have to take up the full ton, either. (Tho i would recommend sticking to half or quarter-ton lots for simplicity's sake.)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Sandslice on 04 February 2013, 23:21:42
Does chemical laser ammo use equipment slots?

Handheld weapons don't have equipment slots.  That said, chemlaser ammo follows the exact same rules as any other ammo:

-On 'Mechs: One critical slot per ton, located where you want it.
-On Protos: May buy single shots (60 per ammo-ton for SCL, 30 for MCL, 10 for LCL.)  Considered part of the weapon.
-On small SVs: N/A; small support vehicles use Infantry weapons.
-On CVs and large SVs: One item slot per ammo-type, regardless of weight.  (So if you have 2 LB-10X and 2 LB-2X on a tank, and you want solid and cluster for both, you pay 4 slots.)
-On aero: No space, ammo is stored in the fuselage.
-On spaceships: Each single ammo weapon must have at least 10 shots for each mode it wants to shoot in.  (Not a problem for chemlasers, but certainly can be for larger ATMs or MMLs.)  Considered part of the weapon.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 05 February 2013, 07:08:26
just some clarification ... you don't have to load a weapon with a full ton of ammo (like a LAC-2 with 45 shots).  You could voluntarily make it less ... say like 5 shots, but would the weight of the ammo still be 1 ton? (I'm inclined to say yes)

in the LRM-15 example, could you voluntarily have only 3 shots ... I'd feel a lot less guilty about dropping my HHW and opening up with everything else.
As Suralin says, you can pay by the shot, so you could have three shots. I just used the full ton amounts because I didn't want to do the math. ;)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Wolf72 on 05 February 2013, 22:17:17
Well that's cool, you can itemize your ammo (AC/Missile)... one shot of this, 2 of that, 1 of those.  It seems a bit too much, until you realize that the HHW has negated all of your torso weapons (until it's dropped)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 06 February 2013, 07:12:18
Well that's cool, you can itemize your ammo (AC/Missile)... one shot of this, 2 of that, 1 of those.  It seems a bit too much, until you realize that the HHW has negated all of your torso weapons (until it's dropped)
True, but it's probably going to be a PITA to keep track of.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Wolf72 on 07 February 2013, 21:38:24
agreed ... no worse than a mech with 4 or more tons of different types of ammo.  Oi, I'd hate to be the quartermaster for that company/trinary too
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Sandslice on 07 February 2013, 23:13:46
Since handheld energy weapons would require SHS equal to heat, they're definitely not an option... except chemlasers, and those are Clan Hell's Horses only.  The Hell's Horses are cool and all, but I'm gonna stick to IS tech here.

1.  The RL/10 spam option:
RL/10 may be one of the cheesiest weapons ever, but for that accuracy penalty.  Even so, wrap a few in a ton of armour, and light 'Mechs get a nifty little riot shield that can shoot off at least 20 missiles in one trigger pull, leaving only a box of probably ruined armour for the enemy.  Heavier 'Mechs, well... let's just say "cloud of death."

2.  Burn the wood burn:
A single vehicle flamer @ 20 ammo, wrapped in a half-ton of armour, weighs in at 2 tons.  You know, in case you don't have any Firestarters.

3.  New life into that old CGR-1A1: Consider an LPPC and its five heat sinks: 8 tons.  Just perfect for your grandma's old Charger.  You could also do double-barrelled medium lasers, but why would you?

4.  New life into that old Cyclops: An AC/5 (or two LAC/2, for that matter) with a ton of ammo is a nice gift for your aging one-eye.

5.  Minelayers: This one is obvious.  Bring some handheld LRM-5s with Thunder ammo, instead of your real ammo.

6.  HOGARTH!!  The Thumper Cannon weighs 10 tons; the Sniper Cannon, along with the true Thumper and the Arrow IV, clock in at 15 each.  These are quite doable by TSM assaults.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: CloaknDagger on 08 February 2013, 00:30:13
6x Heavy Flamers + 11 tons of ammo is interesting.

The best overall handheld I think is LAC-5s and the non-standard ammos, AP, Precision, and Flechete.

It's cheap and gives you a variety of options.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Wolf72 on 08 February 2013, 05:39:49
I was just thinking that the Charger with a LPPC would pretty much make the SL useless ... but the LPPC would cover the damage for all of those anyway!

Can you still punch with a HHW? ... if not, then kick it is. (or relocate all the SL to Head, Legs, and maybe one or two rear facing.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Sandslice on 08 February 2013, 11:20:48
I was just thinking that the Charger with a LPPC would pretty much make the SL useless ... but the LPPC would cover the damage for all of those anyway!

Can you still punch with a HHW? ... if not, then kick it is. (or relocate all the SL to Head, Legs, and maybe one or two rear facing.

You can kick, charge, or DFA; you can also club, but you'd need to be desperate since non-melee HHWs are instantly critted out if you use them to club.  You can't punch for the same reason as you can't shoot arm weapons: the arms are occupied.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: CloaknDagger on 08 February 2013, 18:35:46
They say not to mess with perfection.

Well, I say if you can make it better, then it isn't perfect.

Code: [Select]
Perfection

Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Era Specific
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 20,206,375 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,733

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 375 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Lamellor
Armament:
    2  ER Large Lasers
    1  ER Medium Pulse Laser
    1  ER Medium Laser
    2  LRM-10s
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   114 points                4.00
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 2 LA, 4 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             375                      19.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             17(34)                    7.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Torso-Mounted                                          4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Ferro-Lamellor               AV - 231                 16.50
    Armor Locations: 2 LT, 6 LA, 4 RA
    CASE Locations: RT                                                     0.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     23           35       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  11       
                                           L/R Torso     16           24       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     12           24       
                                             L/R Leg     16           32       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Targeting Computer                           LT        -         3         3.00
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1.00
ER Medium Pulse Laser                        HD        6         2         2.00
ER Large Laser                               RL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       RL        4         1         2.50
ER Large Laser                               LL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       LL        4         1         2.50
@LRM-10 (12)                                 RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 8

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      9    Points: 27
5          4       4       2       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, LRM 1/1/1, IF 1

Seem similar to the loadout of any familiar mechs?

Well add this 7.5 ton handheld to it and be amazed.

Code: [Select]
5xLRM-5
1.5 Tons LRM Ammo (7 shots)
1 Ton Armor (16)

That's right, I went there.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Feign on 09 February 2013, 11:27:55
Code: [Select]
================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Targeting Computer                           LT        -         3         3.00
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1.00
ER Medium Pulse Laser                        HD        6         2         2.00
ER Large Laser                               RL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       RL        4         1         2.50
ER Large Laser                               LL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       LL        4         1         2.50
@LRM-10 (12)                                 RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 8
While I don't have any problem at all with the loadout, I suggest moving the long range weaponry to the head where it won't get blocked as often by terrain and move the medium lasers to the legs, since they're meant for the shorter range brackets anyway (I would trade them for a pair of Medium Heavy Lasers and one more Double Heatsink since you have the space).
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: CloaknDagger on 09 February 2013, 12:36:48
While I don't have any problem at all with the loadout, I suggest moving the long range weaponry to the head where it won't get blocked as often by terrain and move the medium lasers to the legs, since they're meant for the shorter range brackets anyway (I would trade them for a pair of Medium Heavy Lasers and one more Double Heatsink since you have the space).

HINT: It's a Mad Cat.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Feign on 10 February 2013, 18:32:31
Yes, I know that...  It's just the placement can be changed to get more of the same performance as a real Madcat without changing the weapons...  (Though hell, I would change out the lasers on a Madcat too...  Heavy Medium Lasers are pure genius on a bracket fighter.)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: CloaknDagger on 13 February 2013, 00:21:06
So from what I've noticed, for Clans at least, Missiles are by far the best options in a handheld.

Think about it. They weigh little, and they run hot. Except in a handheld, there is NO heat from them. So you have designs like I just posted where the handheld actually pulls more than just its own weight, it takes heat away from the mech. So it essentially becomes the free crits you need it to be.

For IS, of course, things are the same as vehicles: Spam the hell out of MMLs and give them Tandem Charge and Semi-Guided warheads.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 13 February 2013, 07:58:52
So from what I've noticed, for Clans at least, Missiles are by far the best options in a handheld.

Think about it. They weigh little, and they run hot. Except in a handheld, there is NO heat from them. So you have designs like I just posted where the handheld actually pulls more than just its own weight, it takes heat away from the mech. So it essentially becomes the free crits you need it to be.

For IS, of course, things are the same as vehicles: Spam the hell out of MMLs and give them Tandem Charge and Semi-Guided warheads.
Agreed. All this was covered previously, both in this thread and in the hand-Held Weapons? (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,25551.0.html) thread, which actually goes into more detail.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: grimlock1 on 22 July 2013, 10:26:49
I'm a little out of date on my HHW rules but how does this strike you,



All of a sudden that lance of Archers isn't quite so sphincter-tightening.

In a similar vein, turn any mech into a Piranha.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Cowdragon on 22 July 2013, 21:28:08
is there a way to use these in Megamek? Or to calculate them in Solaris Skunkwurks?
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Suralin on 23 July 2013, 07:03:41
Don't know about the former, no to the latter.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Feign on 23 July 2013, 07:31:31
is there a way to use these in Megamek? Or to calculate them in Solaris Skunkwurks?
They're so easy to calculate by hand I doubt that they're a priority for the SSW guys.  (They have enough on their plate with Superheavies and LAMs ;) )
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: packhntr on 23 July 2013, 07:38:47
Hand Held Weapons= FINALLY a use for Rocket Launchers!  One shot, drop the empty "gun" and move on using your main guns.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: grimlock1 on 25 July 2013, 08:54:49
Hand Held Weapons= FINALLY a use for Rocket Launchers!  One shot, drop the empty "gun" and move on using your main guns.
I like the way this man thinks.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Prince of Darkness on 25 July 2013, 11:38:21
I like the way this man thinks.

It's one of the best things you can do with them- give a 35 ton light 'mech a handheld of 8 points of armor and 6 RL-10s, and let him fire off a volley or two before dropping and using his real guns.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 25 July 2013, 12:28:13
Rocketlaunchers are great on an actual mech, too!
They just don't even have large penalties on a handheld.
I like the idea of an AMS package, though.
Equip a lance with one or two of those, and force the enemy missile support to get too close for comfort.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Feign on 28 July 2013, 22:49:42
I like the idea of an AMS package, though.
Equip a lance with one or two of those, and force the enemy missile support to get too close for comfort.
I think the handheld construction rules forbid non-weapon equipment other than a TAG...  Otherwise, I would certainly put AMS, Chaff pods, ECM and other such goodies into them all day long.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: grimlock1 on 30 July 2013, 11:59:35
I think the handheld construction rules forbid non-weapon equipment other than a TAG...  Otherwise, I would certainly put AMS, Chaff pods, ECM and other such goodies into them all day long.
I checked before I posted, and I don't remember seeing anything that would preclude no AMS. However I could be wrong.
I like the Chaff and ECM though.

I was a bummed when I found out that I couldn't put a Blue Shield PFD in a handheld.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Lazarus Jaguar on 31 July 2013, 04:53:19
It's one of the best things you can do with them- give a 35 ton light 'mech a handheld of 8 points of armor and 6 RL-10s, and let him fire off a volley or two before dropping and using his real guns.

Why bother with armor on something you're going to toss away?  Use the half ton fot another 10 rockets
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: grimlock1 on 09 September 2013, 11:30:33
I think the handheld construction rules forbid non-weapon equipment other than a TAG...  Otherwise, I would certainly put AMS, Chaff pods, ECM and other such goodies into them all day long.

I just stumbled across a ruling about HHWs that says AMS is valid.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,27139.msg617615.html#msg617615
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Prince of Darkness on 09 September 2013, 13:09:55
Why bother with armor on something you're going to toss away?  Use the half ton fot another 10 rockets

Max of 6 weapons in a handheld- that armor is simply in case of stray shots that the throwaway can absorb.


I just stumbled across a ruling about HHWs that says AMS is valid.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,27139.msg617615.html#msg617615

!!!
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: Feign on 09 September 2013, 21:26:07

I just stumbled across a ruling about HHWs that says AMS is valid.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,27139.msg617615.html#msg617615
And here's the errata that goes along with that answer! Link (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18161.msg765081.html#msg765081)
I'm gonna have to agree with PoD's assessment of "!!!"

I think the Handheld weapons rules have gotten four errata rewrites now?  Gotta be a record for Battletech.

EDIT:  Also: handheld C3 Remote Sensor Launcher, yes sir, I like it.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: ProtoEva00 on 03 January 2014, 01:06:30
Just some random ideas I've had for hhw.
Like a Thunderbolt-20(OS) for a TSM Berserker
Or a ITSM Diomede wielding a Sniper Artillery cannon
It's been a while since I checked, do HHW HAVE to have armor?  I'd kinda like the opening salvo for my commando to be a Narc launcher (iOS)
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 03 January 2014, 07:45:45

It's been a while since I checked, do HHW HAVE to have armor?  I'd kinda like the opening salvo for my commando to be a Narc launcher (iOS)

Nope. You can have an unprotected HHW.
Title: Re: Handheld ideas thread
Post by: mbear on 03 January 2014, 07:57:47

I just stumbled across a ruling about HHWs that says AMS is valid.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,27139.msg617615.html#msg617615
IIRC, you can add AMS, weapons (duh), TAG, and weapon enhancements like Artemis/Apollo systems.