Handheld ideas thread

[mbear]

Does chemical laser ammo use equipment slots?

They're treated just like autocannon and missile launchers so yes no. (Just looked at the HHW record sheet in XTRO:Corps and the ammo isn't listed as taking up an equipment slot.

[Suralin]

Most interesting. I'm gonna keep an eye on this thread, there are some pretty good ideas in here.

*draws up plans for a handheld ChemBlazer*

[wellspring]

We have mech-scale Tasers, why not mech-scale Mace?

ps Isn't "Taser" a registered trademark? I thought we're supposed to use "electroshock weapon" for it. And "pepper spray" for Mace.

[Cowdragon]

LOL, it would be cool to fly down from space with a LAM, nail another mech with a taser, and proceed to kick the snot out of the shutdown target for a couple rounds, and then fly away back to space. That would be a pretty effective use of LAMs on a battlefield, right? :)

[MrJake]

1. The main errata page on bg.battletech.com or the Errata Forum. In this case the Tactical Operations Errata posting.

2. I think the answer is no, because the tools you mention are considered melee weapons. Which means that you can only fit one into a HHW. I think.

Thanks for the links!

As for #2, tho, I actually meant each as a separate HHW. With a lift hoist and iTSM, an iMech could carry a bunch of them (basically a tool kit), and use which one you need for the job. I'm referring to Out of Combat, of course.

Anyway, just an idea.

[mbear]

We have mech-scale Tasers, why not mech-scale Mace?

We do have it. Fluid Guns + Inferno Gel or Corrosive ammo. ;)

Thanks for the links!

As for #2, tho, I actually meant each as a separate HHW. With a lift hoist and iTSM, an iMech could carry a bunch of them (basically a tool kit), and use which one you need for the job. I'm referring to Out of Combat, of course.

Anyway, just an idea.

Ah. That's a good idea. Can't see any reason it wouldn't work.

And to get back on topic:

For the Hunchback (5 tons): 2xLRM-5, 1 ton ammo. Allows the Hunchback to get in some long range firepower before it unleashes the AC/20. More a harassment weapon than anything. (This same weapon could be equipped with special munitions and used by Hunchbacks, Shadow Hawks, Griffins, etc. to clear/lay minefields.)

[Suralin]

Code: [Select]

Equipment Tonnage Canon

---Heavy MML Weapon (12T)---
2 MML-7s 9
@MML7 (SRM) (14) 1
@MML7 (LRM) (17) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Heavy MRM Weapon (12T)---
MRM-30 10
@MRM (8) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light Streak Weapon (6T)---
SSRM-6 4.5
@Streak (15) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light MML Weapon (6T)---
MML-7 4.5
@MML (17/14) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Disposable Rocket Launcher (5T)---
3 RL/20s 4.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light Laser Weapon (5T)---
MLAS 1
3 SHS 3
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light AC Weapon (5T)---
LAC/2 4
@LAC/2 (22) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Small Laser Pistol (3T)---
erSLAS 0.5
2 SHS 2
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---SRM Launcher (3T)---
SRM-4 2
@SRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---LRM Launcher (3T)---
LRM-5 2
@LRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Machine Gun (3T)---
4 MGs 2
@MG (100) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5

I left out the ones I came up with that have non-canon weapons in them (e.g. LAC-10, ChemBlazer, dual iMRifle)

[mbear]

Code: [Select]

Equipment Tonnage Canon

---Heavy MML Weapon (12T)---
2 MML-7s 9
@MML7 (SRM) (14) 1
@MML7 (LRM) (17) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Heavy MRM Weapon (12T)---
MRM-30 10
@MRM (8) 1
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light Streak Weapon (6T)---
SSRM-6 4.5
@Streak (15) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light MML Weapon (6T)---
MML-7 4.5
@MML (17/14) 1
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Disposable Rocket Launcher (5T)---
3 RL/20s 4.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Light Laser Weapon (5T)---
MLAS 1
3 SHS 3
Armor (16 pts) 1


---Light AC Weapon (5T)---
LAC/2 4
@LAC/2 (22) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Small Laser Pistol (3T)---
erSLAS 0.5
2 SHS 2
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---SRM Launcher (3T)---
SRM-4 2
@SRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---LRM Launcher (3T)---
LRM-5 2
@LRM (12) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5


---Machine Gun (3T)---
4 MGs 2
@MG (100) 0.5
Armor (8 pts) 0.5

I left out the ones I came up with that have non-canon weapons in them (e.g. LAC-10, ChemBlazer, dual iMRifle)

Ah! Thanks! The big problem is that I can't remember if heat sinks take up critical slots in the HHW.

Edit: They don't. Yay!

[mbear]

Just had another thought: In any of the HHWs above, replace the SRM/LRM with equivalent torpedo systems.

Here's one for a Panther: (3.5 ton HHW)

1x LRT-5
1 ton ammo
0.5 tons armor

Could be really useful alongside that Hatamoto frogman variant from XTRO:Kurita or TRO Prototypes.

[mbear]

While I'm thinking of it, here's one for a BattleMaster (8.5 tons):

• LRM-15
• 1 ton ammo
• 0.5 tons armor

[Wolf72]

just some clarification ... you don't have to load a weapon with a full ton of ammo (like a LAC-2 with 45 shots).  You could voluntarily make it less ... say like 5 shots, but would the weight of the ammo still be 1 ton? (I'm inclined to say yes)

in the LRM-15 example, could you voluntarily have only 3 shots ... I'd feel a lot less guilty about dropping my HHW and opening up with everything else.

[Suralin]

You can have it with less than a full ton of shots, yes. And it doesn't have to take up the full ton, either. (Tho i would recommend sticking to half or quarter-ton lots for simplicity's sake.)

[Sandslice]

Does chemical laser ammo use equipment slots?

Handheld weapons don't have equipment slots.  That said, chemlaser ammo follows the exact same rules as any other ammo:

-On 'Mechs: One critical slot per ton, located where you want it.
-On Protos: May buy single shots (60 per ammo-ton for SCL, 30 for MCL, 10 for LCL.)  Considered part of the weapon.
-On small SVs: N/A; small support vehicles use Infantry weapons.
-On CVs and large SVs: One item slot per ammo-type, regardless of weight.  (So if you have 2 LB-10X and 2 LB-2X on a tank, and you want solid and cluster for both, you pay 4 slots.)
-On aero: No space, ammo is stored in the fuselage.
-On spaceships: Each single ammo weapon must have at least 10 shots for each mode it wants to shoot in.  (Not a problem for chemlasers, but certainly can be for larger ATMs or MMLs.)  Considered part of the weapon.

[mbear]

just some clarification ... you don't have to load a weapon with a full ton of ammo (like a LAC-2 with 45 shots).  You could voluntarily make it less ... say like 5 shots, but would the weight of the ammo still be 1 ton? (I'm inclined to say yes)

in the LRM-15 example, could you voluntarily have only 3 shots ... I'd feel a lot less guilty about dropping my HHW and opening up with everything else.

As Suralin says, you can pay by the shot, so you could have three shots. I just used the full ton amounts because I didn't want to do the math. ;)

[Wolf72]

Well that's cool, you can itemize your ammo (AC/Missile)... one shot of this, 2 of that, 1 of those.  It seems a bit too much, until you realize that the HHW has negated all of your torso weapons (until it's dropped)

[mbear]

Well that's cool, you can itemize your ammo (AC/Missile)... one shot of this, 2 of that, 1 of those.  It seems a bit too much, until you realize that the HHW has negated all of your torso weapons (until it's dropped)

True, but it's probably going to be a PITA to keep track of.

[Wolf72]

agreed ... no worse than a mech with 4 or more tons of different types of ammo.  Oi, I'd hate to be the quartermaster for that company/trinary too

[Sandslice]

Since handheld energy weapons would require SHS equal to heat, they're definitely not an option... except chemlasers, and those are Clan Hell's Horses only.  The Hell's Horses are cool and all, but I'm gonna stick to IS tech here.

1.  The RL/10 spam option:
RL/10 may be one of the cheesiest weapons ever, but for that accuracy penalty.  Even so, wrap a few in a ton of armour, and light 'Mechs get a nifty little riot shield that can shoot off at least 20 missiles in one trigger pull, leaving only a box of probably ruined armour for the enemy.  Heavier 'Mechs, well... let's just say "cloud of death."

2.  Burn the wood burn:
A single vehicle flamer @ 20 ammo, wrapped in a half-ton of armour, weighs in at 2 tons.  You know, in case you don't have any Firestarters.

3.  New life into that old CGR-1A1: Consider an LPPC and its five heat sinks: 8 tons.  Just perfect for your grandma's old Charger.  You could also do double-barrelled medium lasers, but why would you?

4.  New life into that old Cyclops: An AC/5 (or two LAC/2, for that matter) with a ton of ammo is a nice gift for your aging one-eye.

5.  Minelayers: This one is obvious.  Bring some handheld LRM-5s with Thunder ammo, instead of your real ammo.

6.  HOGARTH!!  The Thumper Cannon weighs 10 tons; the Sniper Cannon, along with the true Thumper and the Arrow IV, clock in at 15 each.  These are quite doable by TSM assaults.

[CloaknDagger]

6x Heavy Flamers + 11 tons of ammo is interesting.

The best overall handheld I think is LAC-5s and the non-standard ammos, AP, Precision, and Flechete.

It's cheap and gives you a variety of options.

[Wolf72]

I was just thinking that the Charger with a LPPC would pretty much make the SL useless ... but the LPPC would cover the damage for all of those anyway!

Can you still punch with a HHW? ... if not, then kick it is. (or relocate all the SL to Head, Legs, and maybe one or two rear facing.

[Sandslice]

I was just thinking that the Charger with a LPPC would pretty much make the SL useless ... but the LPPC would cover the damage for all of those anyway!

Can you still punch with a HHW? ... if not, then kick it is. (or relocate all the SL to Head, Legs, and maybe one or two rear facing.

You can kick, charge, or DFA; you can also club, but you'd need to be desperate since non-melee HHWs are instantly critted out if you use them to club.  You can't punch for the same reason as you can't shoot arm weapons: the arms are occupied.

[CloaknDagger]

They say not to mess with perfection.

Well, I say if you can make it better, then it isn't perfect.

Code: [Select]

Perfection

Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Era Specific
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 20,206,375 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,733

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 375 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Lamellor
Armament:
    2  ER Large Lasers
    1  ER Medium Pulse Laser
    1  ER Medium Laser
    2  LRM-10s
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   114 points                4.00
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 2 LA, 4 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             375                      19.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             17(34)                    7.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Torso-Mounted                                          4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Ferro-Lamellor               AV - 231                 16.50
    Armor Locations: 2 LT, 6 LA, 4 RA
    CASE Locations: RT                                                     0.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     23           35       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  11       
                                           L/R Torso     16           24       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     12           24       
                                             L/R Leg     16           32       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Targeting Computer                           LT        -         3         3.00
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1.00
ER Medium Pulse Laser                        HD        6         2         2.00
ER Large Laser                               RL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       RL        4         1         2.50
ER Large Laser                               LL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       LL        4         1         2.50
@LRM-10 (12)                                 RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 8

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      9    Points: 27
5          4       4       2       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, LRM 1/1/1, IF 1

Seem similar to the loadout of any familiar mechs?

Well add this 7.5 ton handheld to it and be amazed.

Code: [Select]

5xLRM-5
1.5 Tons LRM Ammo (7 shots)
1 Ton Armor (16)

That's right, I went there.

[Feign]

Code: [Select]

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Targeting Computer                           LT        -         3         3.00
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1.00
ER Medium Pulse Laser                        HD        6         2         2.00
ER Large Laser                               RL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       RL        4         1         2.50
ER Large Laser                               LL        12        1         4.00
LRM-10                                       LL        4         1         2.50
@LRM-10 (12)                                 RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 8


While I don't have any problem at all with the loadout, I suggest moving the long range weaponry to the head where it won't get blocked as often by terrain and move the medium lasers to the legs, since they're meant for the shorter range brackets anyway (I would trade them for a pair of Medium Heavy Lasers and one more Double Heatsink since you have the space).

[CloaknDagger]

While I don't have any problem at all with the loadout, I suggest moving the long range weaponry to the head where it won't get blocked as often by terrain and move the medium lasers to the legs, since they're meant for the shorter range brackets anyway (I would trade them for a pair of Medium Heavy Lasers and one more Double Heatsink since you have the space).

HINT: It's a Mad Cat.

[Feign]

Yes, I know that...  It's just the placement can be changed to get more of the same performance as a real Madcat without changing the weapons...  (Though hell, I would change out the lasers on a Madcat too...  Heavy Medium Lasers are pure genius on a bracket fighter.)

[CloaknDagger]

So from what I've noticed, for Clans at least, Missiles are by far the best options in a handheld.

Think about it. They weigh little, and they run hot. Except in a handheld, there is NO heat from them. So you have designs like I just posted where the handheld actually pulls more than just its own weight, it takes heat away from the mech. So it essentially becomes the free crits you need it to be.

For IS, of course, things are the same as vehicles: Spam the hell out of MMLs and give them Tandem Charge and Semi-Guided warheads.

[mbear]

So from what I've noticed, for Clans at least, Missiles are by far the best options in a handheld.

Think about it. They weigh little, and they run hot. Except in a handheld, there is NO heat from them. So you have designs like I just posted where the handheld actually pulls more than just its own weight, it takes heat away from the mech. So it essentially becomes the free crits you need it to be.

For IS, of course, things are the same as vehicles: Spam the hell out of MMLs and give them Tandem Charge and Semi-Guided warheads.

Agreed. All this was covered previously, both in this thread and in the hand-Held Weapons? thread, which actually goes into more detail.

[grimlock1]

I'm a little out of date on my HHW rules but how does this strike you,

• 6 AMS, and 2 tons of ammo and a ton of armor.

All of a sudden that lance of Archers isn't quite so sphincter-tightening.

In a similar vein, turn any mech into a Piranha.

• 6 Heavy Machine Guns,  1 ton of ammo, 1 ton of armor.
  

[Cowdragon]

is there a way to use these in Megamek? Or to calculate them in Solaris Skunkwurks?

[Suralin]

Don't know about the former, no to the latter.