Author Topic: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M  (Read 7988 times)

YingJanshi

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Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« on: 25 December 2012, 02:13:37 »
   Ok, so assuming both have 3/4 pilots and on moderately buit up terrain, say an Open Terrain map and a Scattered Woods map; which would win in a duel: a Charger CGR-1A1 or a Locust LCT-1M?

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #1 on: 25 December 2012, 02:40:06 »
The UrbanMech laughing at both of them.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #2 on: 25 December 2012, 02:40:44 »
   Ok, so assuming both have 3/4 pilots and on moderately buit up terrain, say an Open Terrain map and a Scattered Woods map; which would win in a duel: a Charger CGR-1A1 or a Locust LCT-1M?

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LordGraygem

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #3 on: 25 December 2012, 02:46:39 »
My two cents are on the Locust as well. It can use its speed advantage to almost literally run circles around the Charger, and the range offered by those LRMs is rather obscene when compared to the Charger's laughable collection of small lasers. The Locust can simply dance around at a constant 12-hex distance and spam missiles.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #4 on: 25 December 2012, 02:48:05 »
   To be honest this came out of a discussion over the CGR-1A1 and the Stinger STG-3R. But I just thought it would be much more frustrating to the CGR pilot to face a 1M Locust.  >:D

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #5 on: 25 December 2012, 03:53:43 »
The LRMs will most likely not be a major factor, even if the Locust manages to fire them in optimal position all the time they will only cause about 50 damage before they run out of ammo.

But since it can then plink with its ML forever that's a moot point. ::)

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #6 on: 25 December 2012, 03:59:54 »
The Locust outranges the Charger and has the speed to easily dictate the engagement range even when losing initiative.

The Charger can only possibly win if the Locust makes a mistake. By contrast, the Locust can easily run the Charger down with no risk of return fire. This isn't a battle, it's an execution.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #7 on: 25 December 2012, 07:37:14 »
So you've been sent to the jungle to hunt the worlds deadliest little hornet, and they armed you with a Civil War era cap and ball pistol.  Yeah, you're kind of dead.

It might take a while but the Locust would win.  Though the pilot/player will need to be both patient and flawless.  As stated the LRMs won't do it alone most likely so you'll need the ML.  Once you get down to just the laser you have to manage the range very closely and NEVER attempt to go in close for the kill.  It will be death by a thousand paper cuts for the Charger.  If the Locust messes up and takes a bunch of SL hits or even worse lets the Charger get in its face, it'll get ugly.


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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #8 on: 25 December 2012, 08:16:29 »
Frankly, if the Locust pilot is actually stupid enough to let the Charger get in his face, he'll have earned that posthumous Darwin Award. Sure, the weapons suck, but it's still an Assault 'Mech. Those punches and kicks aren't being made with Nerf-foam, heh.
« Last Edit: 25 December 2012, 08:20:00 by LordGraygem »

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #9 on: 25 December 2012, 12:24:04 »
The Charger only has Small Lasers right? The Locust ought to be able to get into 4 hexes of the Charger and still be immune to return fire (as long as it has initiative of course.

Frankly, I'd plink with the Medium Laser and save the LRMs for when the numbers are good.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #10 on: 25 December 2012, 15:56:13 »
Change it to the Charger 1L & we would have a fight on our hands!!!
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #11 on: 25 December 2012, 17:13:07 »
CGR-1A1 Charger the universal battlemech. Body of an assault, speed of a heavy, armour of a medium, firepower of a Light. Yeah, the Locust has it in the bag. On turns that it looses init, move out to LRM range, on turns it wins, dart in to 4 hexes. It can keep shooting, even if it isn't liable to hit much, without ever getting into even long range for the Chargers guns. If it ever takes armour damage, the Locust screwed up somewhere
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #12 on: 25 December 2012, 19:02:18 »
The Locust has every advantage, except that it doesn't have the staying power. That ammo doesn't last long enough to kill the Charger. The Locust's LRMs can do a maximum overall damage of 150, likely about half that in reality. Chargers are world-class zombies; even though they don't have much armor, their power comes from melee. This means that as long as it has legs, a CT, and a head, it can still operate at peak performance. Also, if the Locust ever slips up and lets the Charger get close, even one time, it will die.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #13 on: 25 December 2012, 19:22:29 »
Draw.  Charger pilot isn't an idiot, and moves so that you can't get sight unless you get within 7 or 8 hexes.  Waits.  Locust isn't an idiot, so doesn't get close.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #14 on: 25 December 2012, 19:38:54 »
The Locust has every advantage, except that it doesn't have the staying power. That ammo doesn't last long enough to kill the Charger. The Locust's LRMs can do a maximum overall damage of 150, likely about half that in reality. Chargers are world-class zombies; even though they don't have much armor, their power comes from melee. This means that as long as it has legs, a CT, and a head, it can still operate at peak performance. Also, if the Locust ever slips up and lets the Charger get close, even one time, it will die.

This is why I suggest saving the LRMs only for when the TNs are good and rely on the laser for doing primary damage.

The Locust 1M does have a laser, yes? People here have been saying that it does.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #15 on: 25 December 2012, 20:05:04 »
Yes, it has one ML, but then you're uncomfortably close to something which will spell certain doom for your tissue paper armor.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #16 on: 25 December 2012, 20:14:06 »
Yes, it has one ML, but then you're uncomfortably close to something which will spell certain doom for your tissue paper armor.

9 hex range for the Locust vs 3 for the Charger. As said above, just hang back if you lose initiative and slip into range when you win it. If the Charger ever makes an attack on the Locust at all, the Locust player is doing something wrong.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #17 on: 25 December 2012, 21:50:32 »
Indeed.  The Charger in question is armed with a quintet of small lasers.  The Locust can stay at 4-9 hexes all day long, and it would be a very crowded map that doesn't have sightlines longer than 3 hexes.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #18 on: 25 December 2012, 22:04:46 »
I don’t know… I really think that somewhere along the line, the Charger is going to capitalize on a mistake.

Sure, if the Locust plays a textbook perfect game, I think it can do it. But, just one small, eensy-weensy little range mistake and *bam!* It’s Charga Time!

At least that's what I want to believe...  ;)

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #19 on: 25 December 2012, 22:05:41 »
Considering that the Locust can park between ranges 7 and 9, where any "mistake" is one of putting the wrong pilot in the cockpit more than a tactical error, I'm gonna say no. :P
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #20 on: 25 December 2012, 22:24:11 »
Yep, with perfect pilots, it's the Locust's game. But both pilots and players are not perfect, no matter how good. Even the Charger's small lasers leave the Locust with ZERO margin for error, and unless you are playing with rolling maps, there are still four corners--get backed into one of them, and it's game over. Not to mention that the Locust can't even afford to fall down, so if there's pavement or rubble that greatly limits his options. In the end, it really could go either way, but it requires absolute perfection on the Locust's part.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #21 on: 25 December 2012, 22:32:49 »
Yep, with perfect pilots, it's the Locust's game. But both pilots and players are not perfect, no matter how good. Even the Charger's small lasers leave the Locust with ZERO margin for error

What are you talking about?  The Locust's margin of error is a whopping six hexes at the minimum, and 18 hexes if you're using the LRM.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #22 on: 25 December 2012, 22:45:03 »
There are ways for the charger to win but they are all dictated by fight location. If the charger can reduce the range to one or two hexes, it will win. That would require either blind canyons, heavy woods, or underwater.

Otherwise it is a very long game of cat and mouse that will be a death by a thousand papercuts.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #23 on: 25 December 2012, 22:57:03 »
Folks, the OP gave you the terrain: 1 open map, 1 scattered woods.  If I'm in the charger, I'm sticking to the scattered woods. 

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #24 on: 25 December 2012, 23:53:33 »
I wonder how it would affect the fight if the Locust had some variety of LRM special munitions in its ammo bin, such as one of the many Thunder LRM types.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #25 on: 26 December 2012, 01:00:27 »
Contrary to popular belief, the tactics of the Charger actually control this fight.  That is because we already know what the Locust must do.  He must stay at range.  He must not make a mistake.  He must use the death by a thousand paper cuts technique.  Any other plan results in him losing.

Now, because that plan is easy to identify, i.e., "do this and you win", most people understandably pick the Locust.  They think of it like a video game, where someone tells you to stand above the orange rock and fire up, because the boss can't hit you if you stand there and eventually you'll whittle him down and beat him.  "There is nothing the Charger can do as long as you do this."

Why yes, that's true.  But the Charger is not a video game boss, handicapped by a pre-arranged attack pattern.  That's why his tactics control the fight, because it's his job to keep you from successfully achieving your plan.  You must do XYZ.  He must keep you from doing XYZ.

The Charger can play either offensively, or defensively.  Or some combination thereof.  If he plays defensively, he will do as I said earlier, hiding amongst the woods so that the Locust must get within range to fire.  He will lay down behind a level 1 hill, sit in depth 2 water, or similar stall tactics until the Locust player either gets frustrated and closes or walks away from the table.  "Turn 452.  I sit in depth 2 water."  Using these for the whole fight results in a draw, using them for part of the fight may draw your opponent into an unfavorable position, and that is important.

Using the Charger in an offensive manner is different.  In this scenario the Charger makes use of the board edge as an ally.  He runs out into the middle of the map.  An average Battletech mapsheet is 15 hexes by 17 hexes.  If the Charger stands in the dead center of the map (assuming appropriate facing and no terrain), he can get into firing range against nearly any hex on the map in one movement.  The Locust may find himself trapped, may be forced to endure a round of fire from the Charger.  If that happens, it suddenly becomes a traditional Battletech game regarding which player is smarter about his movement.

The Locust can only back away so much.  Eventually (very quickly actually) he hits the board edge.  Then he has to make real decisions about movement.  Where to turn, which way to face when he ends his movement, how many hexes to end his movement away from the Charger, etc.  Now remember that while initiative will average out between the two sides, it will frequently run in streaks.  It is not uncommon for one side to win initiative two or three times in a row.  What the Charger is hoping for is to make his aggressive move (going to the center of the Locust's board) on the first round of what is hopefully a 2 or 3 turn initiative winning streak.  If that happens, he can trap the Locust and kill it. 

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #26 on: 26 December 2012, 01:02:48 »
Folks, the OP gave you the terrain: 1 open map, 1 scattered woods.  If I'm in the charger, I'm sticking to the scattered woods.

So... you're going to stand in a woods hex and let the Locust plink at you from beyond your effective range?

Can't lasers set woods on fire?

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #27 on: 26 December 2012, 01:12:03 »
I can use the woods to my advantage by cutting down his line of sight and attack vectors and (hopefully) draw him into making his last mistake. 

You do realize if the Charger had a pair of MLs and a SL, this topic would have never been started...

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #28 on: 26 December 2012, 03:01:24 »
I can use the woods to my advantage by cutting down his line of sight and attack vectors and (hopefully) draw him into making his last mistake. 

You do realize if the Charger had a pair of MLs and a SL, this topic would have never been started...

Since there was no timeline posited in the OP, why can't the Locust sit out of range and simply burn the forest down instead of rushing to engage?  It's not hard to do, just time consuming, and time is 100% on the Locust's side in this match.

(That said, I'd argue that a Charger who's hiding in depth 2 water for 452 turns has already lost.  An Assault 'Mech being completely taken out of every fight it could possibly be in for over an hour by the least armored 'Mech in the game has failed on numerous levels.)
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #29 on: 26 December 2012, 05:13:16 »
The Charger CAN'T flip it's arms, the Locust does what it does best

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #30 on: 26 December 2012, 06:29:33 »

(That said, I'd argue that a Charger who's hiding in depth 2 water for 452 turns has already lost.  An Assault 'Mech being completely taken out of every fight it could possibly be in for over an hour by the least armored 'Mech in the game has failed on numerous levels.)

That's redefining the question to suit your answer. The question is who would win the fight, not who would achieve greater strategic significance.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #31 on: 26 December 2012, 07:52:20 »
That's redefining the question to suit your answer. The question is who would win the fight, not who would achieve greater strategic significance.
"The Charger stays under water until the Locust goes home" isn't a win for the Charger either, it's just a draw.

It should also be noted that the Locust outranges and out-moves the Charger underwater as well, so unless the map gives a perfect sinkhole for the Charger to hide in underwater doesn't really change things.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #32 on: 26 December 2012, 09:40:55 »
The LCT doesn't have to play a perfect game to win, but it's likely to take a bit of tactical savvy and/or some luck on an initiative roll or two in order to avoid being pinned against a map edge and shot at.  Facing at the end of a turn is going to be important for the LCT, with more than one planned avenue of escape at any time in case it loses initiative, relying on the fact that the CGR can't turn around and run or back up far enough to cover the opposite ends of the playing field.

I see it as a probably win for the LCT if the LCT pilot knows what he's doing,  unless the CGR pilot forces a draw by using some sort of blind cover, which isn't available on the maps specified.  If the LCT pilot plays it wrong, this could be over VERY suddenly.

Given a bigger map area, it should be a guaranteed win or draw for the LCT, and the best the CGR could hope for would be to force a stalemate.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #33 on: 26 December 2012, 09:49:02 »
What are you talking about?  The Locust's margin of error is a whopping six hexes at the minimum, and 18 hexes if you're using the LRM.

I think you're misunderstanding. I mean that you can't let the Charger get within firing range once. If you were using a Wolfhound, it could take some punishment, but iirc this is the most frail (non-industrialmech) mech ever created. This means that the Charger will have control of this fight, despite its lower speed, because the Locust is going to be desperately scrambling to avoid that Charger the whole time.

A single ton of LRM-5 ammo MIGHT be able to kill a Charger, but with no ammo, and the expendable nature of its side torsos and arms, it's not likely to kill the Charger outright. Then begins a long, tedious game of cat-and-mouse, where if the Charger gets in a single shot, it's pretty much over. And with only two mapsheets, trying to flank the Charger requires VERY precise movement. If you think about it, the Charger doesn't have a 3-hex range, it has an 3-11 variable range, based on terrain and turning.

In short, the Locust theoretically can win this fight, if the Charger never closes even once, and if the Locust never falls down for some reason. With the small maps given, that's some slim odds, right there.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #34 on: 26 December 2012, 10:31:22 »
...
In short, the Locust theoretically can win this fight, if the Charger never closes even once, and if the Locust never falls down for some reason. With the small maps given, that's some slim odds, right there.

The more I think about this, the more I think Charger wins.

The Locust would have to play perfectly. The Charger doesn’t care about perfect. It just needs to get into charge range once.
 
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #35 on: 26 December 2012, 10:46:29 »
It's a pity that the OP did not set up a poll.

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #36 on: 26 December 2012, 11:15:30 »
A single ton of LRM-5 ammo MIGHT be able to kill a Charger, but with no ammo, and the expendable nature of its side torsos and arms, it's not likely to kill the Charger outright.

Yeah, I think the single ton of LRM5 ammo is very unlikely to end the Charger in and of itself--assuming it hits about half the time and does about 3 damage per hit, that's only about 36 total damage spread around an 80 ton mech. Heck, if we are charitable and give it a 75% hit percentage, that is still just over 50 damage. Spread around. An 80 ton mech (which, to be fair, isn't overloaded with armor). Not that big of a dent, really.

So then the Locust needs to engage with the ML. Meaning it needs to be at R9. Against a mech that moves 8. On a map with edges. It isn't going to be *that* hard for the Charger to end up at a range where the SLs can fire, and even a few SL hits on this version of the Locust can shoot off a leg. And a single situation where the Charger gets to physical attack range and the game is likely over.
« Last Edit: 26 December 2012, 13:48:21 by bakija »

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #37 on: 26 December 2012, 13:06:01 »
The LCT-1M should win unless the Locust's pilot has had some recent
brain trama or is severely intoxicated .

Forget the LRMs .

The Locust  can sit outside of the range of the Chargers small lasers and
plink with it's medium laser for as long as the locust's pilot can stay
awake through the boredom .

If the Locust's pilots has enough active brain cells then the Charger will never
even get to take a shot .

In a team setting the Charger can move in at medium mech speeds and
deliver assault mech physical attacks  while other mechs sit back and fire .

In a one on one setting the Charger simply can't close against a target that's
faster then it and outranges it without built up terrain to trap it .

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #38 on: 26 December 2012, 14:27:23 »
The Locust  can sit outside of the range of the Chargers small lasers and
plink with it's medium laser for as long as the locust's pilot can stay
awake through the boredom .


i'm gonna assume you mean "as long as the locust doesn't get greedy and presume the Charger pilot isn't able to set up any "easy shots" for the Locust pilot to blunder into to catch an unexpected punch or push for his efforts." here. an "easy fight" is the one you lose primarily through forgetting your opponent's advantages.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #39 on: 26 December 2012, 15:08:11 »
The Locust will win so long as it never ends its movement less than 12 hexes of the Charger on any round that it loses initiative.  And given that it's an 8/12 fighting a 5/8, that's really not hard to do.
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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #40 on: 26 December 2012, 15:22:18 »
Actually, that's very hard on a 1x2 board. It's going to be very hard to avoid being cornered, especially when you have to rush between the Charger and the edge of the board. And remember that those 6 extra hexes are well within the Charger's running range. One wrong move, and it will close the gap and swat the bug.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #41 on: 26 December 2012, 15:40:47 »
I think I would give it to the Locust. Use the speed to your advantage, get in position to get the best shots on the Charger. If it was a city fight or something where the Locust cant use the speed advantage, then I would give it to the Charger.
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Diamondshark

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #42 on: 26 December 2012, 15:48:33 »
I've been playing through it, and there's another dimension to this that I forgot. Remember that a Charger can build up impressive to-hit mods as well. So far I'm up to 35 turns, and have barely gotten the Charger's armor down to about 80%, and I only have 3 LRM salvos left per launcher. As the Locust, the average TN is 10, in the sweet spot of its LRM's range. The best I've had so far is a 6 two separate times. I haven't been hit yet, but it is nearly impossible with slow, deliberate planning to stay 4+ hexes away after movement, and am focused entirely on running away. In-universe, a Locust isn't going to have that luxury.
« Last Edit: 26 December 2012, 15:50:29 by Diamondshark »
"We are the Clans, the Star League incarnate.
None can stand against us and survive."

-- The Remembrance, Passage 272, Verse 8, Lines 18-19

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #43 on: 26 December 2012, 16:11:02 »
In universe, a Locust wouldn't be confined to a 1X2 mapsheet area.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Kovax

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #44 on: 26 December 2012, 16:50:44 »
The LCT really needs to focus on setting up its moves to run PAST the CGR any turn it loses init, so the CGR wastes 3 MP turning around.  When the LCT wins, it moves to 4 hex range and sets up for next turn's run.  Failure to do so means it gets pinned against a board edge.  At 3 hex range, the CGR has terrible to-hit odds, but at 2 the LCT is in serious danger.

ehlijen

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #45 on: 26 December 2012, 17:24:37 »
"The Charger stays under water until the Locust goes home" isn't a win for the Charger either, it's just a draw.

It should also be noted that the Locust outranges and out-moves the Charger underwater as well, so unless the map gives a perfect sinkhole for the Charger to hide in underwater doesn't really change things.

No one said it would be a victory in and of itself. But the charger won't lose that way until the locust comes close to finish him and then there's probably a chance to strike back due to most water features on maps not being that big.

It's boring, it's slow and it will result in a draw, not a vicotry, but it is a way to not lose. That's the problem BT has sometimes, playing not to lose can be easier sometimes than playing to win.
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evilauthor

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #46 on: 26 December 2012, 18:27:51 »
In universe, a Locust wouldn't be confined to a 1X2 mapsheet area.

In universe, both would be bringing along plenty of buddies who would make up for their individual weaknesses.

Diamondshark

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #47 on: 26 December 2012, 19:27:44 »
Okay, so update on the game, I gave up after 75 turns. The Locust was missing an arm and had no ammo left, while the Charger had about half his total armor left. As the Locust, I was focused entirely on running from the Charger, and even then came within firing range of the Charger once, it just wasn't possible to avoid it any better. The fight would have ended up dragging on further, had I not rage quit from sheer boredom.
"We are the Clans, the Star League incarnate.
None can stand against us and survive."

-- The Remembrance, Passage 272, Verse 8, Lines 18-19

massey

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #48 on: 27 December 2012, 03:14:32 »
Okay, so update on the game, I gave up after 75 turns. The Locust was missing an arm and had no ammo left, while the Charger had about half his total armor left. As the Locust, I was focused entirely on running from the Charger, and even then came within firing range of the Charger once, it just wasn't possible to avoid it any better. The fight would have ended up dragging on further, had I not rage quit from sheer boredom.

That's what I figured would happen.  The Locust just doesn't do enough damage and has virtually zero armor.  The Charger is relatively fast for such a small set of maps.  He can cover 1/2 a mapsheet in one move.  The odds are in a long confrontation (which the Locust will need because he's got next to no firepower), the Charger will have multiple streaks in which he wins initiative 3, 4, or 5 turns in a row.  The Locust will have similar streaks, but it doesn't really matter for him because he's still doing very little damage.

If the Locust goes in with the philosophy that has been championed repeatedly in this thread, of "this will be easy I'm just going to sit back at 12 hexes when I lose initiative, and move up to 6 hexes or so when I win", then he's going to lose very badly.

Doug Glendower

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #49 on: 27 December 2012, 03:53:20 »
Using the original set up, the game will consist of the Charger in the trees hurling insults, and the Locust on the plain mooning the Charger.

Winner? NAPTIME!

Isanova

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #50 on: 27 December 2012, 07:02:51 »
Time is actually on the CGR-1A1's side.

A CGR-1L is a light mech hunter, and wins hands-down. A CGR-1A1 however is a leader of lights. If he ends up in such a situation, he calls HQ for friendly scouts. If he's wise, he ignores him and continues with his job. If he's smart, he leads the pest into a trap.

A Locust can plink and plink well under a good pilot, but it's no Champion or Hussar. Eventually the nasties are gonna show up and you'll have to give up you're "I am the Warrior" routine
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Diamondshark

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #51 on: 27 December 2012, 09:20:41 »
Winner? NAPTIME!

Amen! This is a fight where you say, in-universe, "screw it, command needs to send a Spider down here"
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None can stand against us and survive."

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House Davie Merc

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #52 on: 27 December 2012, 15:37:07 »
Played it out last night as the Locust .

2 maps -Open terrain#1 and scattered woods -both 3/4 pilots .

Locust LCT-1M wins on round 48 .

By that time the LCT pilot was rather intoxicated and getting board .

I don't think I have EVER failed  at a to-hit of 6 or less that many times before .   >:(

When it was over I still had 6 rounds of LRM ammo and the Locust was untouched .


The final hit was a 3rd head hit on the Charger  , but at that point
it had no armor on the arms or side torsos and was in the single digits
in the legs and center torso .
The right arm Small laser was out as well as the shoulder and it was down to 3 internal.
The left arm had 2 actuator hits and was in the single digits for internals .
I was also rolling for crits on any side torso hits front or back .

I would bet that I lost initiative around 70% of the game and I missed EVERY
medium laser shot that was at an 8  as well as a ridiculous amount of
shots at 5 and 6 .

Somewhere around round 45 I messed up and got behind the left arm instead of
it's right and the Charger got to make one small laser shot against me at a 12 .

That was the only shot he got the whole game .


Even with bad die rolls ,loosing initiativemost of the time  ,boredom setting in,
spread out damage, comparably few successful critical hit rolls, and an intoxicated
pilot  the Locust absolutely destroyed the Charger .

In EXTREME slow motion .

I can't believe that I lost initiative so much that I ended the game with ammo left .

If I had connected with the statistical amount of those 5s and 6s that I should
have it would have ended MUCH sooner .

Charger supporters -  You just can't hit what you can't catch .

ESPECIALLY if it can WALK backwards to get behind you and force you to
loose 3 MPs just to turn around to chase him .


I felt irritated and dirty after this game .


So much so that I decided to have another game with Warhammer WHM-6D
versus the Charger in the same situation .

My mind feels  cleaner now and the irritation is gone .
« Last Edit: 27 December 2012, 15:39:41 by House Davie Merc »

breakdaddy

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #53 on: 27 December 2012, 15:55:56 »
Let's put that locust in there with a CGR-SB instead.  ;)


TonUp

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #54 on: 27 December 2012, 16:19:11 »
Using the original set up, the game will consist of the Charger in the trees hurling insults, and the Locust on the plain mooning the Charger.

Winner? NAPTIME!

Officially the best result quote, ever. Here's a drink to you!  O0

Banzai

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #55 on: 27 December 2012, 17:12:13 »
Let's put that locust in there with a CGR-SB instead.  ;)

By that point, it is barely a Charger anymore.  Might as well toss the LCT against a Hatamoto-Chi...

breakdaddy

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #56 on: 27 December 2012, 18:49:42 »
By that point, it is barely a Charger anymore.  Might as well toss the LCT against a Hatamoto-Chi...

Haha, big flyswatter either way!

blackjack

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #57 on: 28 December 2012, 00:36:40 »
Terrain is a big factor, built up city might give the Charger an advantage.
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GhostCat

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Re: Who Would Win: CGR-1A1 Or LCT-1M
« Reply #58 on: 28 December 2012, 08:19:03 »
True, limited mobility and choke points will help the Charger, but, when long range is only three hexes, and movement modifiers alone can add as much as six to the target number, the Charger isn't likely to hit anything.

That's what I've always liked about the Locust, even during the FASA days and Stalkers were Assault mechs most players chose first.  Even if the Locust never fired a shot, just lurking somewhere behind the big mech was usually enough to make the point.

The Locust is a Pest, that's what it's good at.  The longer it has a target of interest, the more dangerous it becomes.  The Charger's only real hope for survival is if the Locust is silly enough to follow it all the way back to it's repair bay and let the Urbanmechs deal with it.

GC
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