Author Topic: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions  (Read 9924 times)

YingJanshi

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Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« on: 15 July 2011, 11:55:24 »
I like to play company on company size games, and lately I liked to start using vehicles and infantry. So does anyone have a suggestion on how many units of each type I should use? I was thinking a lance of 'Mechs, a lance of vehicles, and a company of infantry. But there doesn't seem to be much cohesion in that size (course could be that I just don't known how to use vehicles and infantry effectively).

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snewsom2997

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: 15 July 2011, 13:33:02 »
Lance of Mechs, Lance of IFV's, and some Infantry in the IFV's.
What kind of force do you use, the 4X4X4 is fine, but it will also depend on your objectives.
A fun one is 4 LAM's, 4 Maxims, and 4 platoons of Infantry pick your flavor.
Another is 4 Assault Mechs, 2 Artillery, 2 Hover Spotters, and Jump Infantry Spotters.

As far as Infantry and Vehicle, I use them as battle taxi's, move them, dump them, shoot, pack them up and move them again, they can also be used to split up defenders, and at the very least used as cannon fodder.


Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: 15 July 2011, 13:44:40 »
I would suggest 4 'Mechs, 4 combat vehicles and Armored Infantry in vehicles. It would be more of a Combined Arms Detachment or Kampfgruppe as the infantry unit could be as much as a company in itself.

I would also suggest they be matched in speed, although you could substitute an air mobile platoon or jump infantry, depending on your preferred style of fighting.

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: 15 July 2011, 13:53:38 »
Lance of Mechs, lance of Cavalry(Infantry) with the 4 ton bay, and 4 BA squads of your choice. 

snewsom2997

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: 15 July 2011, 14:27:57 »
Lance of Mechs, Lance of IFV's, and some Infantry in the IFV's.
What kind of force do you use, the 4X4X4 is fine, but it will also depend on your objectives.
A fun one is 4 LAM's, 4 Maxims, and 4 platoons of Infantry pick your flavor.
Another is 4 Assault Mechs, 2 Artillery, 2 Hover Spotters, and Jump Infantry Spotters.

As far as Infantry and Vehicle, I use them as battle taxi's, move them, dump them, shoot, pack them up and move them again, they can also be used to split up defenders, and at the very least used as cannon fodder.

You could also reinforce the LAM Company with 2 ASF's, and the Assualt Company with a Lance of Tanks. I do prefer to use vehicles in no less than pairs.

Colt Ward

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: 15 July 2011, 22:02:35 »
My mercs are designed around combined arms, with the mech companies (and even lances) splitting off on missions to be supported by armor, BA and infantry.  In time they will also have VTOL and ASF support provided they do not get mashed as the Jihad breaks out.

Your combined arms company's TO&E will depend on what tasking you have for them . . . for instance, I had a scenario where I had to send out rescue detachment for a group of rebels that were found by some semi-independent pirates on the world.  The rebel's base was crushed, and the largest group of survivors, equipment and supplies were being hunted by a force that was overtaking them and had heavier firepower.

I HAD to send my fastest units to the site so the rebels (aka the mission) could make it to our perimeter to regroup.  As it was broken terrain I was using hover tanks to cruise in, 5/8/5 or 7/11 mediums, a VTOL to drop BA, and 2 APCs with the hover tanks carrying the other 2 BA squads.

The detachment was . . . 2 WVR-8K, UZL-2S, NGS-4S, J Edgar Hovertank, Condor (Laser), 2 modified Blizzards (created before the Blacks came out, but similiar), Karnov (Upgrade) w/BA, 2 Blizzard APCs w/BA.  Managed to skirmish the pirates and knock out their leader on a lucky opening salvo when the mech lance arrived.  The mech lance fell back to the position the BA had formed behind a hill with hovercraft zooming about in a clear area.  The pirates pushed a bit forward from the knocked down leader, got chewed and failed a morale roll.  Half the light and medium mechs they had fell in their retreat.  The rebels had damage to their light armor and a Vedette was immobilized at the defense line.

Similarly, I have had heavy detachments engage in ambushes of convoys.  Schrekk and Alacorn roll over a hill to form the anvil supported by infantry and BA.  Then jumping heavy and assault mechs clear forests and hills to land on the flanks of the convoy, neatly encircling the convoy.  None of the supply trucks broke containment, and only a few lights and mediums made it out.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: 15 July 2011, 22:09:00 »
But as a generic reply . . .

As an all purpose unit-

Take 4 of any of the following-
Po (LBX) Heavy Tank, Marsden (LBX), Patton (Ultra), Rommel (Gauss) or (LBX), Merkava IX, or for lots of fun a Manteuffel

Take 4 decent BA- you can use the external cargo rules for each tank, the Manteuffel is an Omni so they ride it for free

Then take 4 5/8 or 6/9 medium or heavy trooper mechs, possibly even the meaner lights.

The tanks will generally act as your anvil with the survivability boost TW gave.  Your BA protects the tank's flanks if your mechs are off doing something else like flanking.
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Crunch

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: 15 July 2011, 22:18:48 »
Lance of Mechs, lance of Cavalry(Infantry) with the 4 ton bay, and 4 BA squads of your choice.

I'll second that, although I would try to shove a platoon of tanks in there as well.
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TTUPhoenix

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: 15 July 2011, 22:24:26 »
I agree with Colt Ward, it's really going to depend on what you're doing.  If you're on defense, you could load up on infantry and urban-combat vehicles.  In a pitched battle, infantry will probably be too slow to help much on their own, so you'd need APCs (or OmniMechs for your BA), and tanks will come in very handy as fire support/anchors.  In a fast raid/pursuit, I'd leave infantry out unless you have the ability to mechanize them.  Hover tanks and VTOLs would become very useful here.

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House Davie Merc

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: 16 July 2011, 03:09:46 »
I've been running my own combined arms mercenary unit
since the rules for vehicles and infantry first came out .

I use combined arms almost exclusively unless the scenario
requires specific unit use .

I think of a lance as 4 positions  ,but I define position differently .
Kind of like how the Clans treat the points on a star .

No matter what class a mech is ALWAYS a position .

If a vehicle requires infantry to accomplish it's roll then it with it's
infantry are a position .
For instance if I am paring up a Partisan LRM variant with 2 platoons of
jump laser infantry , then the 3 together make up 1 position because they
need to work together .

I also pear up 2 light or weak vehicles that will fight as a team into a
single position if they are weaker then a light mech .   ( like 2 Savannah Masters ,or 2 Strikers )


A typical mercenenary lance for me :

Position 1 .  Warhammer WHM-6D
Position 2 .  Partisan LRM variant  with 2 platoons of jump laser infantry for spotters
Position 3.   Wolverine WVR-6M
Position 4.   Firestarter FS9-M Mirage variant or a Phoenix Hawk PXH-1

Position 4 can often be 2 light vehicles ,2 VTOLs ,or even an aerospace fighter .

My organization is rather unusual but it has worked for me .
When averaged out over a 3 lance company it looks more combined arms and less
like a mostly mech force .

Martius

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: 16 July 2011, 03:54:42 »
Using standard IS lances:

1st Lance are 4 Mechs
2nd Lance two IFVs with 2 Squads of BA
3rd Lance 4 vees
Command Lance is a MHQ, a repair vee, a Mash and a single Tube of Artillery.

My fiancee will run a unit like that in one of our next campaigns.

IIRC she has the following:

Blade
Ghost
Osprey
Prefect

2x Giggins Support
2x Angerona Scout

4x M1A Marksman

Praetorian MHQ
Jifty JI 50
MIT 23 MASH
Padilla Tube Artillery

edit:

I ran the following combined arms Maniple with some success:

1 Century of Marian Ceremonial Guards, each contubernium mounted on an Heavy Tracked APC (LRM)- thats 100 troopers and 10 APCs.
1 Century of Mechs, consisting of a CN-9Da, a CN-9H, a LCT-1V2, a PXH-1 and a COM-4H.


« Last Edit: 16 July 2011, 04:06:21 by Martius »

YingJanshi

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: 16 July 2011, 10:07:59 »
Wow, great ideas, thanks. I guess I should have clarified: I meant just for a stand-up to try to get a handle on how to use vehicles and infantry. Again thanks!

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truetanker

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: 16 July 2011, 11:17:51 »
First let me ask you what era your playing and faction?

Then let me suggest this:

Take your 4 mechs, add your tanks then your infantry.

I have used the following to much use:

Warhammer-6D
Archer-2S
Hunchback-4P
Firestarter-FS9-F

2x Goblin
1x Goblin LRM
2x Bulldog
2x Heavy Tracked APC, LRM
1x Heavy Tracked APC, SRM
1x Heavy Tracked APC, MG

2x Guardian ASF

1x Infantry Platoon, Foot SRM ( Hvy. APC )
1x Infantry Platoon, Foot MG ( Hvy. APC )
2x Infantry Platoon, Foot Rifle ( Hvy. APC )
1x Infantry Platoon, Foot SRM ( Goblin )

I have the mechs do the main fighting while I use the Bulldogs as flankers for the Goblins, their Infantry support is to spot and protect the LRM Goblin, I have the Heavy APCs run up and provide security and LRM fire, while their Infantry support and secure the area. The Gaurdians are there for limited ASF support and bombing runs.

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TTUPhoenix

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: 16 July 2011, 14:38:44 »
I'm a big fan of the Level system, since it makes combined arms organization very easy and I prefer even numbers over odd.

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Lyran Archer

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: 16 July 2011, 18:14:48 »
It's good when your combined arms units have some synergy.

I have used infantry, Scimitar hovertanks, and Sprint helicopters to TAG and spot for my Archer lances' indirect fire. Thus, the vehicles and infantry aren't just thrown in, they play a very important part in my plan.

I always take Battle Armor when I play my Clan Wolf forces. They ride to battle on my OmniMechs so I don't need a transport for them. The low cost of the Elementals often counters the high cost of the Omnis so I'm not outnumbered too badly. They are initiative sinks but are also great leg-cappers.

There are other ways to ensure synergy. A single Demolisher tank can provide two AC 20's for close-up protection for a fire support for under 1000 BV. The Gauss varient Demolisher can provide two Gauss rifles for long range support to a skirmisher lance. The Arrow IV varient Demolisher can provide two cheap Arrow IV launchers, etc.

Maxims hover transports are nice because there is a single varient that carries 12 tons of infantry, has TAG, has decent weaponry and goes 8/12. I have a half dozen of those babies.

Think about what you want your vehicles and infantry to do for you. 
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TigerShark

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: 17 July 2011, 04:19:49 »
This depends heavily upon what era you're in, the budget of the defending force, fluff, etc. It also depends on the rules level you're using. If, for example, you have any rules on the table such as TacOps "Vehicle Effectiveness", that changes the whole ball of wax for hover units, WiGEs, and VTOLs. If you're using StratOps Quirks, that changes things again.

Without those specifics, it's hard to say what you "should/shouldn't take." I think the biggest limiting factor is the FSM and whether you're counting Infantry toward the initiative count. That right there limits the size of your force tremendously.

I would say, however, that the general rules for battlefield roles still apply, excluding infantry. This means FIRE SUPPORT - LINE - LINE - SKIRMISHER still fill out a general Lance, regardless of it being constructed of vees or BattleMechs. Obviously these ratios change depending on terrain, where you may wish your vehicles to flesh out the bulk of your fire support and the Mechs do the skirmishing or line work. I find that vehicles make poor line units anyhow, due to their Motive System crits but work great as speedy harassers and stuff sitting at long range not taking much fire.

A sample Vehicle Lance from 2750 might be...

Alacorn VI
Manticore
Manticore
Zephyr

...a corresponding Mech Lance with that unit might be...

AWS-8Q Awesome
TDR-5S Thunderbolt
SPT-N2 Spartan
LNX-9Q Lynx

...followed by infantry...

Mechanized Platoon (MG)
Mechanized Platoon (Rifle)
Mechanized Platoon (Rifle)
Mechanized Platoon (Laser)
« Last Edit: 17 July 2011, 04:23:56 by TigerShark »
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Martius

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: 17 July 2011, 05:05:05 »
It is interesting to see that most people take a platoon of Infantry as the equivalent of a Mech or Vee instead of a Lance of Mechs or a platoon of Vees.

Crunch

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: 17 July 2011, 05:10:19 »
It is interesting to see that most people take a platoon of Infantry as the equivalent of a Mech or Vee instead of a Lance of Mechs or a platoon of Vees.

That's really just an issue of battlefield effectiveness. Sub company size infantry groups are rarely anything but initiative sinks unless they're field gunners or field artillery or you're playing a scenario that involves a group of specialists.

A company of infantry on the other hand can be a damn fine battlefield unit if you can get them into position.

There are exceptions to this (notably with squad deployment as an option or considering a platoon and it's transport as a single element) but really as a general case if you see a single infantry platoon in any force above 5000 BV you're seeing an init sink not a combat unit.
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Martius

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: 17 July 2011, 05:46:09 »
All true, Crunch, I merely observed and commented on what I noticed.

4 Mechs and 4 platoons of Infantry are called a 'Lance of Mechs and some PBI' by most, instead of a 'Company of Infantry reinforced by a Lance of Mechs'  :D. 

Devens

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: 17 July 2011, 07:09:38 »
I would say, however, that the general rules for battlefield roles still apply, excluding infantry. This means FIRE SUPPORT - LINE - LINE - SKIRMISHER still fill out a general Lance, regardless of it being constructed of vees or BattleMechs. Obviously these ratios change depending on terrain, where you may wish your vehicles to flesh out the bulk of your fire support and the Mechs do the skirmishing or line work. I find that vehicles make poor line units anyhow, due to their Motive System crits but work great as speedy harassers and stuff sitting at long range not taking much fire.

I can truely say that I have for a long time considered Mechs and Vehicles to be one combat arm.  I consider Mechs to be a subbranch of the Armor arm.   So to me mechs and Vehicles are not combined arms.  A mech is a walking tank plain and simple.  Mechs and Ground Vehciles fill the same combat roles, although they do have diffrent weaknesses and Streangths.   

Add Infantry/Battlearmor, Artillery, And/Or Aerospace to the mix and you have combined arms.


All true, Crunch, I merely observed and commented on what I noticed.

4 Mechs and 4 platoons of Infantry are called a 'Lance of Mechs and some PBI' by most, instead of a 'Company of Infantry reinforced by a Lance of Mechs'  :D.

To most yes.   I add a transport section for the PBI's and call it an Mechanized Infantry Company.

krazzyharry

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: 17 July 2011, 08:07:21 »
You could use an Armored Cav Troop as a reference.  Two tank platoons, two infantry/cav scout platoons, 2 120mm mortar plus a maintenance team and HQ section.  Replace the HQ section with a mech lance and the 120mm mortars with an arty tube or Arrow IV vechicle, and maybe add a couple of attack VTOLs
« Last Edit: 17 July 2011, 10:01:55 by krazzyharry »

TigerShark

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: 17 July 2011, 09:47:40 »
It is interesting to see that most people take a platoon of Infantry as the equivalent of a Mech or Vee instead of a Lance of Mechs or a platoon of Vees.

How is that "interesting?" That's how CBT sees it too. They're organized into units that way...
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Martius

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: 17 July 2011, 11:15:58 »
How is that "interesting?" That's how CBT sees it too. They're organized into units that way...

Sorry, but my sources disagree. Check out the organisation sections of the Field Manuals for different unit types(for example FM: Federated Suns pg 21 and following) .

A company of mechs= 3 lances = 12 mechs
A company of infantry= 3 platoons = 86 troopers
A company of tanks= 3 platoons= 12 vehicles
ect.

edit:

I think the problem is that 12 units on the table are not always the same as a company. If only infantry is chosen it would be the equivalent of a reinforced Fed Suns infantry batallion to stay with my example from above.
« Last Edit: 17 July 2011, 11:21:40 by Martius »

Demos

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: 17 July 2011, 11:23:35 »
Yes, so a mixed company is e.g.
4 mechs
4 vehicles
1 infantry platoons (which can be played as 4 individual squads).
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TigerShark

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: 17 July 2011, 12:07:14 »
A mech is a walking tank plain and simple. 

Yeah. Except the tanks can't jump (yes, I know about the Kanga), take Motive System damage, can be stunned without a critical hit, use turrets instead of torso twisting, have different firing arcs, take 3 MP to change levels instead of 2, can't enter certain terrain, mount only Single Heat Sinks and their sensors don't go as far...

Other than that, they're just like tanks. :)
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Devens

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #25 on: 17 July 2011, 18:07:04 »
Yeah. Except the tanks can't jump (yes, I know about the Kanga), take Motive System damage, can be stunned without a critical hit, use turrets instead of torso twisting, have different firing arcs, take 3 MP to change levels instead of 2, can't enter certain terrain, mount only Single Heat Sinks and their sensors don't go as far...

Other than that, they're just like tanks. :)

They still fill the same roles as vehicles.  So yes they are the same arm.  They have better mobility making them the superior form of Armor in most cases but in the end they are still just a form of a tank.

Devens

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #26 on: 17 July 2011, 18:28:32 »
Sorry, but my sources disagree. Check out the organisation sections of the Field Manuals for different unit types(for example FM: Federated Suns pg 21 and following) .

The TOE scale of infantry and the Game scale of infantry dont match. 

In the Total Warfare Book the basic unit of deployment is a Single Mech, a Single Vehicle, a Battle Armor Squad, a Protomech Point, and a Infantry Platoon.  The core of the Problem is the Battletech Tabletop game has infantry out of scale with the rest of the units using a base deployment of a Platoon of Infantry as the Equal to a Squad level deployment of all other units.   In TOE's, all the fluff lists infantry in correct scale which contradicts the deployment in Total Warefare.

The best way to correct it without changing the game scales is, in my opinion, to think of all infantry companies are single lance companies with all of its platoons assigned to that one lance.

Alternately if you want infantry Companies with some teeth:
   APCs, IFVs, or Transport VTOLs can be assigned to a second Lance for mechanized or Airmobile units.  You can then add a lance of Tanks, VTOLs, or Mechs as the 3rd Lance and you get a nice combined arms infantry unit that can be mechanized infantry or Airmobile(US 101st Airborne) infantry.   



« Last Edit: 17 July 2011, 18:36:23 by Devens »

TigerShark

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #27 on: 17 July 2011, 20:37:12 »
They still fill the same roles as vehicles.  So yes they are the same arm.  They have better mobility making them the superior form of Armor in most cases but in the end they are still just a form of a tank.

I couldn't disagree more but there's probably no arguing this.
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mensa12345

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #28 on: 17 July 2011, 21:40:25 »
Combined arms is fun for a game, but I wouldn't do it if I was running a mercenary campaign.  Vehicles and infantry are too fragile, and too hard to withdraw if they take damage.  I would stick to mechs for merc work.

If you're going to use combined arms, I would look into having omnimechs instead of stock.  Not only are they more flexible, but I think that Battlearmor can be transported on them (which is wicked handy for close assaults).  I know that works for clan omnis, and I think it applies for inner sphere (I'm sure someone will quickly correct me at length if I'm wrong).  I would also look into the availablity of Padilla or other arrow carriers, and have your mechs carry tag.  That way your BA can either close assault with the mechs, or support the artillery, depending on the mission.

Otherwise, if you want to go with stock infantry platoons, I'd make sure the vehicles are also apcs.  The maxim is a good choice.  If you don't, your infantry may never get into the fight.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Combined Arms Company - Any Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: 17 July 2011, 22:04:21 »
At this point, I do not agree that vehicles and infantry are too fragile . . . then again I used advanced rules.  Armor's operations have shifted from hovercraft to heavy tracked armor, provides a solid anchoring line for any offensive.  VTOLs have taken the place of hovercraft in the pursuit of broken foes.  Infantry are definately called for in urban settings, recon and to help protect your slower assets.

But you are right, if the majority of your armor takes hits that knock out its motive system, then you must win the field to recover the immobilized tanks.  Infantry would also help keep the immobilized tanks flanks protected.

I just think it takes a bit more finesse.
Colt Ward
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