BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Dayton3 on 14 March 2012, 12:45:57
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I could be wrong but from game playing perspective, it seems as long as you have something on the end of your mechs arm like a weapons pod to pound on an enemy mech then articulated hands offer no advantages.
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Generally speaking, no, your right. OTOH, you can pick up a club with a hand, and you don't suffer minus's to your punch attacks with a hand either. And the rules from Tac Ops ad more fun stuff to do with hands as well. I mean, throwintg some pore schumk in his BA suit? Friggin' awesome@ O0
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Improvised clubs. Handheld weapons pods. Picking up and throwing enemies. Picking up and keeping salvage/loot. Picking up loose women. Grabbing turrets. Grabbing enemies. Climbing. Basic diplomacy.
Lots of things you can do with a hand. All else fails, it can also absorb a crit meant for a gun or ammo slot.
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All else fails, it can also absorb a crit meant for a gun or ammo slot.
This alone is probably worth the price of admission, though I admit in a campaign with resource tracking, repairing a busted hand would be pretty low on my list of priorities to spend money and parts on.
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Hands also let you get plenty of peacetime use out of your mechs. Useful for improving the public perception of your unit, or giving your pilots a chance to keep their skills sharp while the public gets a direct return on their tax money, or for a merc unit on garrison(or between contracts) to gain a little extra cash on the side.
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Don't forget hand signals for communication (Wasn't that a thread in the last month?).
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Hands also let you get plenty of peacetime use out of your mechs. Useful for improving the public perception of your unit, or giving your pilots a chance to keep their skills sharp while the public gets a direct return on their tax money, or for a merc unit on garrison(or between contracts) to gain a little extra cash on the side.
Want to help the local population? Battlemechs with hands are good at getting rid of those nasty deep-dug in trees or large boulders in the new field a farmer wants to open up.
Constructing your base (or for that matter civilian buildings) goes a lot faster with 'Mechs with hands doing the heavy lifting.
How about clearing the rubble you just caused of a city to help to look for survivors?
Yeah, in combat, not so much. Out of Combat (where most of your time is spent anyway)...
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Want to help the local population? Battlemechs with hands are good at getting rid of those nasty deep-dug in trees or large boulders in the new field a farmer wants to open up.
Constructing your base (or for that matter civilian buildings) goes a lot faster with 'Mechs with hands doing the heavy lifting.
How about clearing the rubble you just caused of a city to help to look for survivors?
Yeah, in combat, not so much. Out of Combat (where most of your time is spent anyway)...
I concur. The advantage of the battlemech's hands is its ability to help with various logistical concerns- carrying freight, repairing infrastructure, personal maintenance, clearing roads, building improvised defenses, recovering wrecks/pilots, etc.
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I was going to jump in an extol the combat advantages of hands and their non-combat utility, but everyone's summed it up. So, +1.
There's also a question of basic design concepts. A 'Mech is, yes, primarily defined by its legs. The all-terrain mobility advantages of a BattleMech are, really, its defining feature. But hands are a significant part, too. If you delete hand actuators, there's no sense wasting a lot of expensive and complicated articulation on what are basically fancy turrets (arms) when you could reduce a 'Mech to a cheaper, simpler walking tank (like the Goliath, especially if torso turret optional rules are used.) And then you have a war machine that's missing a lot of the utility of 'Mechs: giant arms and hands get things done that tanks cannot accomplish.
Like Elemental tossing. :)
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Hey, can 'Mech with hands reload ammo for another 'Mech? Well... that could be done by J-27 equipped with Lift Hoist...
Like Elemental tossing. :)
One 'Mech throws Elemental at another 'Mech which is holding a bat ( = club) }:)
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Hey, can 'Mech with hands reload ammo for another 'Mech?
Yes. See TacOps. 8)
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Hey, can 'Mech with hands reload ammo for another 'Mech? Well... that could be done by J-27 equipped with Lift Hoist...
One 'Mech throws Elemental at another 'Mech which is holding a bat ( = club) }:)
Na.. Elemental Cornhole!
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Don't forget hand signals for communication (Wasn't that a thread in the last month?).
"Sir, we've received a response to our demand that they surrender, hand signal only."
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Na.. Elemental Cornhole!
Wouldn't that require mech scale red solo cups to hold in the other hand?
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"Sir, we've received a response to our demand that they surrender, hand signal only."
A sentiment that is not without historical precedent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge#Bastogne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge#Bastogne)
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IIRC mech hands aren't really fully articulated. For instance, you couldn't use mech-scale chopsticks or anything especially dexterous like that.
It's more like a powered clamp with seperate fingers.
Individual digits allow for a better grip by conforming to the object held even if the fingers aren't individually actuated.
I'd compare it to a bear or raccoon front paw. You can pick stuff up and push yourself up off the ground with it.
Allthough I imagine that many would mod the middle fingers to be seperately mobile for the reasons peviouslt stated.
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"Sir, we've received a response to our demand that they surrender, hand signal only."
+1
Someone should so steal that for a signature...
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Now I have in mind a fluff piece for unauthorized 'mech movement circuit boards, eventually leading to warbooks including a gesture database.
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Na.. Elemental Cornhole!
Those mech hands better be real useful if the elemental survives cuz if he does I think the pilot will be living in the cockpit for a while lest he be Hulk smashed into itty bitty squishy pieces.
But seriously, I put together a lance of mercs (the IS is not really my favorite thing) and had 2 requirements; designs that are available throughout the timeline and designs with hands. They seem more practical.
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I'm a huge proponent of the values of hands on BattleMechs, and TacOps is the hand-fan's best friend!
There are simply so many things you can do with hands....
They help you 'Mech stand up more easily from a fall.... (TacOps, pg.25)
They can be used to climb up steeper cliffs than a 'Mech can normally traverse....(TacOps, pg.22)
They can be used to crawl to cover if you've suffered leg damage....(TacOps, pg.20)
You may pick up enemy equipment and steal it in a raid.....
You may pick up friendly equipment and evacuate it easily in the event of an enemy surprise attack.....
You may pick up an enemy's blown off limb and beat him with it for extra humiliation factor.....
You may pick up ProtoMechs, battle armor and small vehicles and throw them...... (TacOps pg.92)
You may drag a valuable but damaged friendly unit off the field to prevent it's capture.... (TacOps pg.99)
They may be used to grab and grapple an enemy unit, preventing it's escape or to prevent it from effectively using it's weapons...... (TacOps pg.90)
And finally, the presence of hands allows a 'Mech to have a basic Omni-like capacity via it's own ability to lift hand-held weapons. Close combat 'Mech need the ability to attack at a distance? Handheld LRM racks. Conventional 'Mech need a weapon it can use underwater? Handheld torpedos. Need an artillery spotter? Handheld TAG. Need a minefield? Handheld Thunder-LRM launcher, etc.
And you get ALL THIS for ZERO tons and just ONE critical slot! Quite frankly, the hand can be one of the most useful pieces of equipment on a 'Mech, and my preference is always to have at least one, if not both.
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+1
Someone should so steal that for a signature...
Done!
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IIRC mech hands aren't really fully articulated. For instance, you couldn't use mech-scale chopsticks or anything especially dexterous like that.
It's more like a powered clamp with seperate fingers.
Individual digits allow for a better grip by conforming to the object held even if the fingers aren't individually actuated.
I'd compare it to a bear or raccoon front paw. You can pick stuff up and push yourself up off the ground with it.
Allthough I imagine that many would mod the middle fingers to be seperately mobile for the reasons peviouslt stated.
Novel fluff would say otherwise, but novel fluff is just that fluff.
The technical manual has some pretty amazing things to say about the DI and the large amounts of decentralized sensors and relays built into a mech to enable mechs to... Well be mechs.
Running, walking, skipping, dodging through a forest over broken terrain is likely no more complicated then wielding mech size chop sticks. :)
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Solaris VII needs mech-scale knife games. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_game)
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They allow you to hold 'Mech-scale boomboxes. O0
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IIRC mech hands aren't really fully articulated. For instance, you couldn't use mech-scale chopsticks or anything especially dexterous like that.
Nope, some actuators are that dexterous. The waldoes in the cockpit (see Tech Manual's description of hand actuator interfaces) allow pretty decent mimicry of MechWarrior hand gestures - up to and including chopsticks. An Awesome's giant clamp might not be good for playing on a giant piano, but a Griffin or BattleMaster can accomplish impressive feats of manual dexterity.
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They allow you to hold 'Mech-scale boomboxes. O0
"So what did they hire you for? Cadre duty? Garrison? Riot control?"
"Nope. Bitchin' block parties [rockon]"
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+1
Someone should so steal that for a signature...
That's it! Challenge the Clans to rock-paper-scissors in 3050! A good portion of the 'Mechs didn't have hands so the Inner Sphere would win!
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You may pick up BattleMechs, ProtoMechs, battle armor and small vehicles and throw them...... (TacOps pg.92)
a Griffin or BattleMaster can accomplish impressive feats of manual dexterity.
The Shadow Hawk was know for its dextrous hands.
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The Shadow Hawk was know for its dextrous hands.
TWSS?
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That's it! Challenge the Clans to rock-paper-scissors in 3050! A good portion of the 'Mechs didn't have hands so the Inner Sphere would win!
Why oh WHY did we NEVER see something like THIS in the books!
;D
O:-)
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That's it! Challenge the Clans to rock-paper-scissors in 3050! A good portion of the 'Mechs didn't have hands so the Inner Sphere would win!
"Okay kids, today we're playing Rock-Paper-Autocannons."
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"Okay kids, today we're playing Rock-Paper-Autocannons."
"Okay what did Private McGurk teach you all?"
"Bugs Bunny was never a Mechwarrior? Never stick your 'Mech's fingers in gun barrels?"
"You just might pass this class after all Cadet."
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+1 for the use of hands. It is pretty much a requirement for any mech I field.
Why oh WHY did we NEVER see something like THIS in the books!
Wasn't that pretty much how some of the Nova Cat worlds "surrendered" during Operation Bulldog? Coin toss, football game, drinking contest, etc.
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+1 for the use of hands. It is pretty much a requirement for any mech I field.
Wasn't that pretty much how some of the Nova Cat worlds "surrendered" during Operation Bulldog? Coin toss, football game, drinking contest, etc.
...coin toss, football game, drinking contest, strip poker.... ;D
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Without mech hands Minoru Tetshara would not have been able to save Jaime Wolf's life when his Archer fell into lava
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Besides, how else would you play 'Mech-scale volleyball? :D
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I think being able to throw gang signs (west side!) is a must!
Seriously though, although not really that practical during a game, it gives you the OPTION of being able to use your foe's blown off arm as a club to hit him on the head with! This has been one of my biggest selling points when introducing Battletech to newcomers.
Beyond that, mad props to MadCapellan for the TacOps hand usage summary.
I'm a huge proponent of the values of hands on BattleMechs, and TacOps is the hand-fan's best friend!
There are simply so many things you can do with hands....
They help you 'Mech stand up more easily from a fall.... (TacOps, pg.25)
They can be used to climb up steeper cliffs than a 'Mech can normally traverse....(TacOps, pg.22)
They can be used to crawl to cover if you've suffered leg damage....(TacOps, pg.20)
You may pick up enemy equipment and steal it in a raid.....
You may pick up friendly equipment and evacuate it easily in the event of an enemy surprise attack.....
You may pick up an enemy's blown off limb and beat him with it for extra humiliation factor.....
You may pick up ProtoMechs, battle armor and small vehicles and throw them...... (TacOps pg.92)
You may drag a valuable but damaged friendly unit off the field to prevent it's capture.... (TacOps pg.99)
They may be used to grab and grapple an enemy unit, preventing it's escape or to prevent it from effectively using it's weapons...... (TacOps pg.90)
And finally, the presence of hands allows a 'Mech to have a basic Omni-like capacity via it's own ability to lift hand-held weapons. Close combat 'Mech need the ability to attack at a distance? Handheld LRM racks. Conventional 'Mech need a weapon it can use underwater? Handheld torpedos. Need an artillery spotter? Handheld TAG. Need a minefield? Handheld Thunder-LRM launcher, etc.
And you get ALL THIS for ZERO tons and just ONE critical slot! Quite frankly, the hand can be one of the most useful pieces of equipment on a 'Mech, and my preference is always to have at least one, if not both.
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The hand is also a requirement for almost all of the melee weapons.
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Oh I forgot. Even with Introductory rules, working hands can be a requirement for Extraction type scenarios in which something (salvage for example) needs to be carried off the board as a Victory Condition requirement.
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Oh I forgot. Even with Introductory rules, working hands can be a requirement for Extraction type scenarios in which something (salvage for example) needs to be carried off the board as a Victory Condition requirement.
Ack! It could be quicker to find, secure and commandeer local recovery vehicle for that job than drag crippled 'Mech tens of kilometers. Not fun for MechWarriors either. Unless friendly DropShips have sufficient fuel reserves to drop by... Of course best choice is to come with own recovery vehicles.
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Ack! It could be quicker to find, secure and commandeer local recovery vehicle for that job than drag crippled 'Mech tens of kilometers. Not fun for MechWarriors either. Unless friendly DropShips have sufficient fuel reserves to drop by... Of course best choice is to come with own recovery vehicles.
And if you aren't in a location where there are any recovery vehicles? Or any vehicles at all? How many BT battles are fought in the middle of nowhere on planets?
If you are raiding for salvage, and reinforcements are coming, rip off that arm, pick it up with your hands and run!
There are also a lot of examples in the fluff where 'Mechs have been shown to be dragging in another Mech in exactly this fashion...
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There are also a lot of examples in the fluff where 'Mechs have been shown to be dragging in another Mech in exactly this fashion...
And TacOps has rules for that: 2 'Mechs with 4 hands dragging 1 crippled 'Mech... 1 hex per turn? Second last measure on the list (abandoning crippled 'Mech is the last)
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That's it! Challenge the Clans to rock-paper-scissors in 3050! A good portion of the 'Mechs didn't have hands so the Inner Sphere would win!
Sigged. O0
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I've always wondered why so many stock 'mechs lack hand actuators.
Unless you also leave off lower arm actuators you get no combat benefit in exchange for the scant benefit of an extra critical slot and some saved BV/cost. Punching is harder, and you lose flexibility (picking stuff up, standing at some rule levels, et cetera).
Hardly seems worth it to leave them off.
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I've always wondered why so many stock 'mechs lack hand actuators.
Unless you also leave off lower arm actuators you get no combat benefit in exchange for the scant benefit of an extra critical slot and some saved BV/cost. Punching is harder, and you lose flexibility (picking stuff up, standing at some rule levels, et cetera).
Hardly seems worth it to leave them off.
*looks at Charger's and Hatamoto-Chi's stub*
...yeah, why?
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*looks at Charger's and Hatamoto-Chi's stub*
...yeah, why?
The Zeus is an even worse offender in my eyes:
"Hey, I've got two minimum-range limited weapons in my arms...why would I want to be able to punch effectively?"
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Becuse it's cheaper to build a mech without hands then with them.
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Punching is harder,
Punching is in the game because it's cool and it occurs often because the artifical truncation of weapons ranges combined with the usually small play area makes it viable. Realistically, outside of Solais, melee combat would be a rarity and a sure sign that someone seriously fracked up. If my choices are a hand actuator so I can punch or a weapon to stop the other guy before he gets close enough that punching becomes an issues, then guess which I'm going to choose.
Now, ceter paribus, if I have free slots I'll take hand acts for the extra versatility; however, in real life, I'm no where near sure that a military procurement panel would approve them on non-specialist platforms because of the extra cost, mass(ignoring for sake of realism the fact that BT doesn't track that mass), complexity, logistics overhead, and increased production time for no gain in the primary role.
-Jackmc
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The Zeus is an even worse offender in my eyes:
"Hey, I've got two minimum-range limited weapons in my arms...why would I want to be able to punch effectively?"
Honestly, I rather not have the Zeus look like the reseen Crusader :P
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The Zeus I could sort of buy fluff-wise given the size of the weapons mounted in its arms, "no room", but the Hamato-Chi and Charger don't have "protection" for me
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I could have sworn that Mechs would get a -1 to hit penalty for punching if they lost their hand actuator, or just never had one in the first place.
I see now from the rulebooks I have on PDF form that isn't the case, but it might have been that way back in 2nd edition. I will add that 2nd edition was pretty terrible. A leg blown off and a leg destroyed actually had different penalties for example.
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IIRC a missing or destroyed hand actuator halves punch damage.
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TW pg. 145.
A missing a hand actuator adds a +1 to the to hit roll. Missing a lower arm actuator imposes a +2 penalty and halves the damage.
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Punching is in the game because it's cool and it occurs often because the artifical truncation of weapons ranges c
As opposed to the natural range of a particle cannon? It's a game, everything it "artificial".
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As opposed to the natural range of a particle cannon? It's a game, everything it "artificial".
"Natural particle cannon ranges are inferior to bred in captivity particle cannon ranges, study shows."
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Punching is in the game because it's cool and it occurs often because the artifical truncation of weapons ranges combined with the usually small play area makes it viable. Realistically, outside of Solais, melee combat would be a rarity and a sure sign that someone seriously fracked up. If my choices are a hand actuator so I can punch or a weapon to stop the other guy before he gets close enough that punching becomes an issues, then guess which I'm going to choose.
We played our games on a 4'x8' map, yet routinely saw 'mechs get close enough for physical combat (especially if those 'mechs are short-range ones, like the Javelin, et cetera).
As for "a weapon to stop the other guy," weapons cost more than hand actuators, they have weight, and (typically) they generate heat.
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Punching is in the game because it's cool and it occurs often because the artifical truncation of weapons ranges combined with the usually small play area makes it viable. Realistically, outside of Solais, melee combat would be a rarity and a sure sign that someone seriously fracked up. If my choices are a hand actuator so I can punch or a weapon to stop the other guy before he gets close enough that punching becomes an issues, then guess which I'm going to choose.
The BTU makes a lot more sense (but is still lacking in complete internal consistency), if warfare had devolved into a spectator team sport. The armor is specially constructed that high velocity rounds are not guaranteed to punch through it, while physical attacks that lack the momentum transfer, let alone the energy, still have spectacular results. The weapon ranges and terrible accuracy are for improving the watchability of the combats. It insures that both shooter and target are in the frame of the camera* and allows spectators to be close enough to the fight to watch without enhanced vision systems. The Succession Wars were actually the riots of the Ameris/Kerensky cup final match up getting totally out of hand, and the clan wars were the descendants of the bitter losers of that game gunning for a rematch.
* Did you notice how combat ranges in StarTrek dropped by three orders of magnitude between ST:TOS (tens of thousands of km) and ST:TNG (tens of km), for no other reason than TOS needed a reason for the fighting ships to stay in different camera shots and TNG didn't.
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"Natural particle cannon ranges are inferior to bred in captivity particle cannon ranges, study shows."
I disagree wholeheartedly. I prefer free-range, cage free, organic particle cannon ranges.
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The BTU makes a lot more sense (but is still lacking in complete internal consistency), if warfare had devolved into a spectator team sport.
Heh. Play CritterTek :P
I prefer free-range, cage free, organic particle cannon ranges.
Check Tactical Operations for Extreme Range and LOS Range :)
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As opposed to the natural range of a particle cannon? It's a game, everything it "artificial".
Come on, if weapon power in BT even halfway met the energey levels needed to ablate as much armor as it does, the real ground vs ground max range of a PPC would be "visual horizon."
-Jackmc
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Come on, if weapon power in BT even halfway met the energey levels needed to ablate as much armor as it does, the real ground vs ground max range of a PPC would be "visual horizon."
LOS Range in Tactical Operations
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Come on, if weapon power in BT even halfway met the energey levels needed to ablate as much armor as it does, the real ground vs ground max range of a PPC would be "visual horizon."
-Jackmc
As someone who actually works with particle accelerators, I'm going to disagree.
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We played our games on a 4'x8' map,
Which again is only an area a little under 3 sq miles.
We used to use Peter Del orto's "Age of Ares" mod for BT Where most wepaons ranges were multipled by 10 and we used USGA quadrangle maps which were covered about 50 sq. miles of territory. There was virtually no mech vs mech melee combat except when someone didn't send in conventional elements to scout out urban terrain.
-Jackmc
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As someone who actually works with particle accelerators, I'm going to disagree.
Sweet. Neutral or charged particle? Can you give me some good research links or paper titles? I still have full access to my uni's reserach databases so I can get most published works with just the title and an author.
-Jackmc
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Which again is only an area a little under 3 sq miles.
We used to use Peter Del orto's "Age of Ares" mod for BT Where most wepaons ranges were multipled by 10 and we used USGA quadrangle maps which were covered about 50 sq. miles of territory. There was virtually no mech vs mech melee combat except when someone didn't send in conventional elements to scout out urban terrain.
-Jackmc
In that case, you weren't playing BT at all.
IIRC, in the BT universe weapon ranges were limited by targeting systems, not by the "ranges" of (pseudo-scientific) weaponry.
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In that case, you weren't playing BT at all.
I was using it as an example to illustrate how the combination of small mapsize and short weapons range make it happen. Still if you prefer a straight up BT example, my group was big into minis and thus we played on a plywood table which gave us a main area that was just over 6 x 12 maps sheets though we could, and did, if needed, use a card table to enable any edge to float by another two mapsheets which gave us a total area of 10 x 16 maps sheets or roughly 15 sq miles (we actually mvoed over to the quadrangles because we stil lflet this was too small but had reached the practical limit of how far we coudl reach over a table). We very seldom saw melee because we used conventional scouting units to discover where the opposing force was. That vast majority of melee combat we did see was usually a previously hidden mech curbstomping the unfortunate scout vehicle that stumbled too close.
IIRC, in the BT universe weapon ranges were limited by targeting systems, not by the "ranges" of (pseudo-scientific) weaponry.
Nope, read the rule books. They specifically mention that weapon ranges are artifically shortened for game play purposes.
-Jackmc
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Sweet. Neutral or charged particle? Can you give me some good research links or paper titles? I still have full access to my uni's reserach databases so I can get most published works with just the title and an author.
-Jackmc
Positive Ion cyclotrons in industry. What sort of research are you looking for? Its a rather big field.
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Nope, read the rule books. They specifically mention that weapon ranges are artifically shortened for game play purposes.
Which books? Do you have a page number?
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Which books? Do you have a page number?
Total Warfare, in one of the first paragraphs in the first chapter. Sorry, don't have my book with me to be more specific.
Basically it says, "Yeah, we know it doesn't make sense. Ranges are very short for gameplay purposes, and that was on purpose."
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Which books? Do you have a page number?
I think Weirdguy means the paragraph on pg. 36 TW, A note on Scales and the Rules.
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I think Weirdguy means the paragraph on pg. 36 TW, A note on Scales and the Rules.
Aha. Thanks.
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Aha. Thanks.
Here's the issue that has come up with battletech time and again over the last 25 years.....
There have been a large number of "reasons" but the main reason for the short ranges in battletech is because it is battletech, not artillerytech.
These questions about range usually came up along with the questions as to why your targeting system cannot aim the medium laser, and small laser, mounted on the same arm, and fired together, equally well at 60 meters? (short for the mlas, medium range for the slas).....
The long and short was to make it a playable game ----
I've seen suggestions from players that all lasers should have the same range, and if mounted in the same location, should hit the same location --- all weapons in an arm should hit if the to hit roll is made, and all do damage to the same location....
Never mind that if all lasers had the same range, and could group hit like this, every mech in the game would have packs of small lasers, and nothing else mounted.... Large laser, 5 tons, 8 heat / 8 damage, or a triple pack of small lasers, same range.... 1.5 tons, 3 heat / 9 damage..... why would you waste time with anything other than small lasers, heat sinks, and armor?
The best bet is just to let the game play, and enjoy it with other people, but leave the "realism" outside of the game --- battletech is no more real than Dungeons & Dragons is real....
Nahuris
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I think Weirdguy means the paragraph on pg. 36 TW, A note on Scales and the Rules.
Also from TW, pp. 36:
"BattleTech is a game, not a detailed simulation. Therefore, the real world must take a back seat to game play--for simplicity, length of play, space required and simple enjoyment."
-and-
"BattleTech has always been about "in-your-face" combat, which works best with closer ranges. Players are encouraged to remember such abstractions and not get bogged dow in real-world mechanics and physics. Just enjoy the game!"
Which puts us right back to the question asked in this thread- why include or omit hand actuators, in terms of BattleTech as it is written and played? ;D
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Also from TW, pp. 36:
"BattleTech is a game, not a detailed simulation. Therefore, the real world must take a back seat to game play--for simplicity, length of play, space required and simple enjoyment."
-and-
"BattleTech has always been about "in-your-face" combat, which works best with closer ranges. Players are encouraged to remember such abstractions and not get bogged dow in real-world mechanics and physics. Just enjoy the game!"
Which puts us right back to the question asked in this thread- why include or omit hand actuators, in terms of BattleTech as it is written and played? ;D
Hand to hand combat, use of improvised clubs, and the ability to steal stuff on raides..... plus the occasional civil duty to keep the populace paying taxes for more mechs.
Nahuris
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Positive Ion cyclotrons in industry. What sort of research are you looking for? Its a rather big field.
I'd love to get ahold of any of the stuff from the SDI research but I always figured most of that was classified.
-Jackmc