BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => Ground Combat => Topic started by: MarauderD on 16 July 2014, 10:28:46
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I was just curious to see what people thought of the current state of Battle Armor in the Inner Sphere? Who do you think has the best stable of suits? Who is falling behind? What is your favorite design? What design do you think is overrated, etc?
For me, I think the CCAF (and therefore Canopians) are the current top dog in the field of Battle Armor. Here is why:
1. The Amazon is the new Michael Jordan standard by which to judge IS BA. Fantastic suit.
2. Ying Long has mimetic armor and the Plasma Rifle, which just eats infantry and BA for lunch.
3. The new Shen Long has firepower rivaling the Grenadier, but with mobility to boot. Gorgeous artwork too IMO.
What do you all think?
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Black Wolf, with Cardinal VTOL or Tyr IFV.
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Here are BAs that I think are being produced in the new Free Worlds League:
Battle Armor produced in the new FWL (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,40189.0.html)
Kopis with its Medium Lasers is a great thing, especially useful as an area denial instrument. Range of its weapons means that it can't be ignored.
Phalanx-D is a great ambusher. Deploy it somewhere where you expect that enemy will try to hide or camp.
Longinus is an old suit, usable in defensive roles. It's unfortunate that it can jump only after it fires its SRMs.
I consider Achileus (and imported Quirinus) to be more useful with their TAGs than in purely combat role.
Leonidas is similar case, as for me its Angel ECM field and TAG is often more useful than their weapons.
Xiphos is very durable, but perhaps at the expense of its firepower.
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I was just curious to see what people thought of the current state of Battle Armor in the Inner Sphere?
It is awesome. New ideas and new technologies makes this the most interesting era for BA yet.
Who do you think has the best stable of suits?
The RAF. They lost a good thing in Irian, though. The Quirinus, Simian and Taranis are all pretty swank. But, let's not forget they have Purifiers and Angeronas to fall back on. Somewhere there is also the Purifier (Terra) factory making a few suits for the RAF Special Forces. I haven't had a chance to use the Centaur yet, and the value of BA artillery doesn't jump out at me. But, it can mechanize and provide close in direct fire artillery on the cheap. The emphasis seems to be on flexibility from what I can tell. As a fan of that perspective I dig the RAF suits.
Close second would be the DCMS. The selection of armor is amazing. The use of reflective armor is really powerful when the clans and clan laser using AFFS are your primary enemies. They have mostly abandoned the assault BA concept and stuck with lighter suits. Even the Zou, which is a pocket assault is meant to mechanize. Seeing the DCMS's traditional emphasis on speed expressed in their armor philosophy is very satisfying. They still have the Void, which is one of the most powerful BA ever built by the Inner Sphere, and the Raiden AI and Raiden II are good upgrades.
Who is falling behind?
The AFFS. They peaked with the Grenadier. The Sea Fox and Fusilier are interesting, which is always an appreciated quality. But, overall, yeah, I see them losing their edge. The Infiltrator MkII hasn't aged very well, for that matter.
What is your favorite design?
Kisho or Quirnus. They both fall squarely into the interesting category while still being powerful.
What design do you think is overrated, etc?
The Cuchulain. It isn't terrible, but the perception is that it is the greatest thing ever.
I'll tell you what is the most underrated these days: the Sloth. It just keeps getting better and better.
For me, I think the CCAF (and therefore Canopians) are the current top dog in the field of Battle Armor. Here is why:
1. The Amazon is the new Michael Jordan standard by which to judge IS BA. Fantastic suit.
I guess so. But, to me, it is just an improvement over what came before. It doesn't even do anything unique. The old Trinity suits could at least claim to be MRR touting 3 ground MP city fighters. The Amazon is a slight improvement over the IS Standard with LRR. The biggest bonus, however, is having an arm mounted weapon in the offhand chance you want to swarm something. It's good, but I don't know... not all that impressive.
2. Ying Long has mimetic armor and the Plasma Rifle, which just eats infantry and BA for lunch.
Yeah, that's not a bad suit. It and the Phalanx got a big hand up with their weapon changes.
3. The new Shen Long has firepower rivaling the Grenadier, but with mobility to boot. Gorgeous artwork too IMO.
It reminds me of a Fenrir 1.5 for some reason.
Only the FWLM and AFFS fall into meh territory for me. All other players have a really impressive stable of battle armors. If we want to talk about the clans, who is using the Elemental II? They pretty much wins hands down thanks to the power of the BA myomer booster. After that, the Falcons, because the Ironhold is patently ridiculous.
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After that, the Falcons, because the Ironhold is patently ridiculous.
Too good?
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Oh yes. A real terror. Especially the Fire variant. 4 APGRs.
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Well, the Elemental APGR is the new flavor of the gold standard.
The Amazon has taken the prize for the closest the IS can get to that standard.
IMO, the Ogre takes the cake for fun fluff- BA Boxing! I am just waiting for EA Games to release the 3146 season.
I have not gotten to use much, not too many 3145 battles under my belt but I am looking forward to trying some of it because the options have opened up so much since the Elemental trio debuted.
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Well, the Elemental APGR is the new flavor of the gold standard.
Yes, i'd even go so far as to say the Falcon's Fire-Resistant APGR Elemental is the real gold standard. It is one of the reasons I put the Falcons at the top of the clan game. The Afreet isn't bad, either. Not as good as the APGR Elementals, mind you, but good. The Inner Sphere would surely weep to get something that good. The Void comes close, but even the Mag Shot version isn't in the same area of awesome that is the APGR. Accept no substitute.
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The Choo-choolainn is a great suit IMO, not over-rated at all. It's a solid improvement over the Corona, which I loved. Don't get me wrong, you do have to use it correctly. It's a piece of a puzzle, but a great piece for its role.
Sadly, we don't see the stock Salamander much anymore, which I think is unfortunate because it's the one medium design that really challenged the standard Elemental as a do-everything utility infielder. Hell, even the Elemental isn't seen as much these days, if for no other reason because it's being crowded out by all the other designs. It's a shame, because both designs are excellent.
Overrated? Easy, though you'll all hate me for saying it. The proliferation of assault suits, especially in the IS. Slow on their own, a PITA to transport, incapable of riding omnimechs-- I really just don't get it when it comes to assault BA.
The overall state of BA in the IS is good, though. Stealth and new little doohickies and doodads to put on your suits, plus especially new armor concepts like reflective and reactive. Some interesting innovations from the Capellans, of all people, but lots of good designs coming from the Draconis Combine.
One thing I'd like to see is some kind of innovation to improve the utility of Light suits. Right now, (and more or less quoting SillyBrit) there's no Light design I can think of that can't be improved by making it Medium.
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The only reason I can think of for using lights comes from strategic reasons- transport mass using the optional rule, perhaps easier to don during emergencies or scrambles, easier to get through buildings/forts/ships, and of course cheaper/faster to build (as if that mattered in BT).
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It depends on what you are going for. The limitations of mass are also limitations on BV. If all I want is a 4 jump leg capper the GD Scout does that at a very low BV. Heck, it even brings an AP weapon if I want to swarm. The free TAC has the same chance as any other weapon of punching through.
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The Cuchulainn isn't an omni-purpose battle armor, but if it can enter its niche in a battle, most battlemechs are in danger. The unit is slow, and a sitting duck for artillery, but if you can dig in inside woods, or get inside a building, then you will be nigh-unhittable, and able to dish out remarkable damage with respectable accuracy. The big issue is getting into said cover without being out-maneuvered and/or overwhelmed. This, coupled with the potent Fenrir II put the Lyrans into a pretty good situation with their Battle Armor (when was the last time you could say THAT? ;D).
Also, the LBX variant of the Black Wolf for the Empire works phenomenally well with a Wulfen--have the Wulfen open up some holes with the ERPPC or ERLL/TarComp variants, then rush in and deposit the armor (which can still be mechanized), and it basically becomes a portable LB/20X for the Wulfen (or other omni of your choice). It's not quite as powerful as a point of fire-resistant Ironholds, but it's darned good, the mechanized capability of a heavy suit and its synergy with the Wolves' mobile touman puts it over the top for me as the better design.
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As a fan of BA, I love the current state of the IS. So many geat dsigns to play with. Of the new batch, I liked the CuCuCaJoo a lot, but the best IMO was the Taranis. Good firepower and still Mech Capable. The Clans stuff seems kinda meh thlugh. Even the best one they introduced, the Black Woldf, seems kinda mediocre. I think they need to start whipping their techs (is that who their weapons engineers are? Or is that the Scientist Caste) into shape a bit if this is the best they can do.
On the subject of Battlearmor, something I've been thinking: does IS standard still have a place in 3145? Not only are there new "trooper" designs out there, but i it occured to me that with the Elemental no longer exclusive to the Clans (Clan Sea Fox, if you have moeny we'll sell you anything!) that it could be looked at as superfluous or mostly obsolete. Except for poorer mercenary commands or police use. The larger military forces can get the superior Elemental just as easily I imagine. Or am I wrong about availability?
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On the subject of Battlearmor, something I've been thinking: does IS standard still have a place in 3145? Not only are there new "trooper" designs out there, but i it occured to me that with the Elemental no longer exclusive to the Clans (Clan Sea Fox, if you have moeny we'll sell you anything!) that it could be looked at as superfluous or mostly obsolete. Except for poorer mercenary commands or police use. The larger military forces can get the superior Elemental just as easily I imagine. Or am I wrong about availability?
I think so. Not everybody can afford the ClanTech, and perhaps not everybody wants to be depended on a foreign power.
I guess that IS Standard is easier to maintain and repair and spare parts are easier to come by, as it's so common.
After all, even the Sloth is still in service after 100 years.
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But the Sloth has been periodically updated. The Inner Sphere Standard hasn't been radically updated at all. The last upgrade it got was the Recoiless Rifle. They had a used back when they were ISS or nothing for mercs and Periphery commands. Now... meh. It would be interesting to see someone buy up all the surplus ISS and refit them with something like advanced armor.
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The Sloth hasn't so much been updated, it's more a case of trying to squeeze out some use from an obsolescent chassis. For a real life example, think back to WW2 in particular, with earlier tanks converted to SPGs, mobile AAA, etc.
Overall, I'm leaning towards favoring the Republic's battle armor corps. It has a solid mix of high-end and low-end suits of every weight category, covering every possible role, except the more obscure niches. The Centaur gives them a unique capability that harkens back to the new meta when the AFFS introduced the Hauberk; which the RAF also has. They have a good stable of medium and heavy battlesuits to exploit Mechanized Battle Armor capabilities, including the aforementioned Centaur for long range fire support.
Although the Suns arguably hasn't added anything eye opening for some time, that doesn't make what they have inferior, plus they still have the most diverse battle armor selection. No other House military has its own aquatic battlesuit and few can match the new Marine variant of the Infiltrator Mk II in space. Like all non-RAF forces the AFFS does lack artillery battlesuits, and I wish it had a decent heavy design, but the Suns does have a robust lineup of transport vehicles to help ferry around its trio of assault suits.
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It depends on what you are going for. The limitations of mass are also limitations on BV. If all I want is a 4 jump leg capper the GD Scout does that at a very low BV. Heck, it even brings an AP weapon if I want to swarm. The free TAC has the same chance as any other weapon of punching through.
As per TW p223, AP weapons cannot be used for Swarm attacks, so he GD Scout effectively cannot Swarm as all it can do is climb onto the target Mech/vehicle and then shuffle around in embarrassment while occasionally calling the MechWarrior/tank crew noobs and haxors, while blaming their lack of attack on lag.
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I am leaning towards the Dominion.
Golem (support and std)
Rogue Bear (upgrade and std)
Thunderbird? (they captured a Nova Cat factory on Mualang. Who knows what it produced?)
Elemental
Bar (imported)
Wraith
Constable (possibly the only support BA in the game)
Kobold (Original and IIC. The IIC a better spotter than the Achileus or Quirinus.)
No individual best suit (maybe), but they operate the full suite of capabilities.
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I think the Dracs may have a better BA line up at this time over the FedSuns. Any Nova Cat production they picked up and had a good collection in the first place.
By the way, what would you call the new ISS? The Inner Sphere Upgraded? The Inner Sphere Standard Upgrade? As mentioned, about the only thing I can think to do would be to improve the type of armor . . . maybe extend the jump range with the mass freed up? I will have to use the BA Builder when I find my excel.
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As per TW p223, AP weapons cannot be used for Swarm attacks, so he GD Scout effectively cannot Swarm as all it can do is climb onto the target Mech/vehicle and then shuffle around in embarrassment while occasionally calling the MechWarrior/tank crew noobs and haxors, while blaming their lack of attack on lag.
This would apply to whatever weapons are used in the BA's hands?
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But the Sloth has been periodically updated. The Inner Sphere Standard hasn't been radically updated at all. The last upgrade it got was the Recoiless Rifle. They had a used back when they were ISS or nothing for mercs and Periphery commands. Now... meh. It would be interesting to see someone buy up all the surplus ISS and refit them with something like advanced armor.
Miko's Blades San mercenary unit still uses the IS Standard BA in the Dark Age.
So I think I can answer the original question: Yes, it still has its place.
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This would apply to whatever weapons are used in the BA's hands?
Even if it's a handheld weapon carried in armored gloves, it still counts as an AP attack and thus non-effective during Swarm attacks.
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I actually think the AFFS suits are holding up quite well, with the obvious exception of the Cavalier. The lack of updates on the flagship suit hurts them a bit.
That being said, I think the Grenadier is the gold standard for BA damage. It can handle other battle armor or mech forces quite well. Furthermore, the new Fusilier, while being somewhat smeared by the fluff, is an absolute brute in its Reflective mode. That thing will terrorize other BA with its amount of armor and the Plasma Rifle.
Lastly, while it is an in-universe and not a tabletop piece of evidence, the AFFS just has more BA to throw at people. By 3145 even lowly LCTs have a full regiment of BA. That means 750+ suits. Even if 500 of them are Cavaliers, and the other 250 are a hodge podge of Pumas, Hauberks, Grenadiers and Fusliers--that is a lot of battlearmor for anyone to deal with in any setting.
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Even if it's a handheld weapon carried in armored gloves, it still counts as an AP attack and thus non-effective during Swarm attacks.
Thank you for connecting the dots. I guess that is one point in the Kage's favor over the GD Scout. The team support weapon (MG, flamer, etc) can be used in a swarm attack? Not that swarming is all that effective these days.
I actually think the AFFS suits are holding up quite well, with the obvious exception of the Cavalier. The lack of updates on the flagship suit hurts them a bit.
A shame, too. I actually like the Cavalier as an improvement on the IS Standard (mostly the SRM). I was hoping it would continue to improve along similar lines and take a form like the Amazon, but without a Recoiless Rifle.
That being said, I think the Grenadier is the gold standard for BA damage. It can handle other battle armor or mech forces quite well. Furthermore, the new Fusilier, while being somewhat smeared by the fluff, is an absolute brute in its Reflective mode. That thing will terrorize other BA with its amount of armor and the Plasma Rifle.
I see both suits as having opposite problems. The Grenadier doesn't have enough armor (intentionally from sillybrit's article) and the Fusilier has too much. Both are pretty good. I just don't think the overall selection of AFFS BA is on par with that of the RAF, DCMS or LCAF. They attempted some interesting things in 3145, but I don't think it turned out as well as their earlier efforts. I mean, this is the AFFS. They made the Infiltrator MkII, the Grenadier and the Hauberk Commando. The Fusilier, Sniper and Sea Fox in comparison are just sort of... meh. And that's really why I harp on them. Back in days yonder the AFFS had the edge and now seem to have lost it. Personal opinion, though.
The FedSuns prioritising one form of armor over the other is a bit of a tough call, as well. DCMS gets off kind of easy in that it fights clans and the AFFS which has been buying up clan lasers for some time. The AFFS, meanwhile has to contend with a PPC heavy DCMS and a CCAF that is known for artillery use. Basic stealth seems to be the armor of choice in the AFFS. The Reflective, meanwhile, is excessive on the Fusilier, as i've mentioned, especially for a suit so under armed.
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The team support weapon (MG, flamer, etc) can be used in a swarm attack?
Yes. As long as the Squad Support Weapon Mount is mounted on an arm, then it can be used during a Swarm attack.
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That being said, I think the Grenadier is the gold standard for BA damage.
No, not really. SRM4 pack with a large-ish ammo bin. Say 8 points of damage.
Fire Ironhold. 4 x APGR say 9 points of damage.
Golem Support. ASRM6 say 10 points of damage.
Cuchulainn. ERMPL. 7 points but at 15 hexes with a -1.
Kopis. 2 MLs. you could say a little under 8, but bigger blocks of damage.
I appreciate that I have just listed 3 Clanners and an IS suit, but I have been up all night and I can't think of any more off the top of my head.
There are a lot of suits out there these days with lots of combinations of armour, movement, and weapons. Heck different suits play to different rulesets. Some are customised for Marine Points. Some Table Top. Some RPG.
The Grenadier is solid, but I don't think it has ever been a standout as an assault suit.
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To be fair to the Grenadier, when it came out in 2005 none of those designs you named were available. Competing assaults at that time were the Golem, Hauberk, Fenrir and Kanazuchi. The Golem and Kanazuchi could both exceed the Grenadier's damage, but only once, while the other two may have had greater range and/or endurance, but couldn't match the damage.
Although not an assault, the Corona could also be counted as a competitor due to its speed, but it again cannot match the damage, although it does have better range, accuracy and unlimited ammo in BT games.
When the Grenadier was republished in TRO3075, we got to add the Shedu and Nephilim, both of which had competitive variants, although the Grenadier also got the HK variant, which does have greater short term firepower than the original. There's range and endurance issues here to complicate the direct comparison.
While I agree that it's no longer the king of battle armor damage, and was beginning to show its age with TRO3075, but in the beginning I would say that it was the gold standard.
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I like the Lyran line up with the Fenrir II, Cucuchalain, Grey Death Infiltrator, and... oh, well, those three are really fun to use. GDI is a jack of all trades suit and I've had success using as an artillery spotter while Fenrir II's introduced some Clanners to their LRM launchers, tip of the spear style :D
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No, not really. SRM4 pack with a large-ish ammo bin. Say 8 points of damage.
Fire Ironhold. 4 x APGR say 9 points of damage.
Golem Support. ASRM6 say 10 points of damage.
Cuchulainn. ERMPL. 7 points but at 15 hexes with a -1.
Kopis. 2 MLs. you could say a little under 8, but bigger blocks of damage.
I appreciate that I have just listed 3 Clanners and an IS suit, but I have been up all night and I can't think of any more off the top of my head.
There are a lot of suits out there these days with lots of combinations of armour, movement, and weapons. Heck different suits play to different rulesets. Some are customised for Marine Points. Some Table Top. Some RPG.
The Grenadier is solid, but I don't think it has ever been a standout as an assault suit.
As other people have hinted at, the Grenadier is quite a bit older than many of those suits. So when I say gold standard, I meant a level of firepower that other suits might be compared with in a favorable manner.
I'm not a great BT player at all, but I do think the Grenadier HK is a standout assault suit. It can take down PBIs, armor, and mechs. I'm not sure the examples you listed can say the same, but I could be wrong!
Lastly, regarding the comparison to the Cucumber: yes, it has a great main gun, but the BV cost is quite high for battle armor at 836. Now I know this is a separate issue, but one worth considering. Would you rather have one squad of Cukes or 2 squads of Grenadier HKs? (372 BV)
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I'm not contesting the Grenadier being the best suit the FS have at the present. And yeah, the damage the Grenadier inflicts is mostly in small hits. That makes it very dangerous. The Kopis ML can outpace the damage, but the damage hits in 5 points. Though, I think it is worth pointing out, even when it was brand new, the Grendier's primary weapon, the SRM4 was still subjected to the dreaded AMS.
It is kind of interesting to see the AFFS building 3 assault suits. I'd expect the Lyrans to be building the most assaults, but there you go. At least the Feddies are building the Fusilier to be a trumped up heavy instead of making more Grenadier or Kanazuchi type clones.
The other faction that surprises me is the FWLM. Their armor in some ways seems like either a tiny step forward, or a small step backwards in some cases. Good thing they got Irian back.
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The Lyrans have the most "assaulty" feeling armor to me in the Fenrir II. 18 points of armor and 3 ground movement points are pretty insane. Too bad 1 ML is kind of "average" in the firepower department as of 3145.
I think the FWLM has a nice group of battlearmor. The Achileus is still a gorgeous light suit and the Kopis is a mech eater. I also like the Reactive armor on the Xiphos (sp?). One of the few suits that doesn't evaporate when the artillery shells start dropping.
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The Lyrans have the most "assaulty" feeling armor to me in the Fenrir II. 18 points of armor and 3 ground movement points are pretty insane. Too bad 1 ML is kind of "average" in the firepower department as of 3145.
You can do a great deal with advanced armor and ground only movement. The medium laser may not be all too impressive, but the other loadouts are certainly scary. The AI version, for example, should be avoided by infantry of all kinds, armored or otherwise, at all costs. I'm personally a huge fan of the SRM version, as well. Faster than the Grenadier and harder hitting, with less ammo endurance.
I think the FWLM has a nice group of battlearmor. The Achileus is still a gorgeous light suit and the Kopis is a mech eater. I also like the Reactive armor on the Xiphos (sp?). One of the few suits that doesn't evaporate when the artillery shells start dropping.
Their previous entries were all really good. Thanks to the return of Irian, they still are. It's the Leonidas and Xiphos i'm not crazy about. Neither one really pops out to me. The Xiphos being able to survive a direct hit from a Long Tom just doesn't impress me when it has such low firepower. If it wasn't and assault, that would be really interesting. But, no. It requires transport. If i'm going to need to take a transport to make it anything more than a glorified spotter it should be able to kick out more damage.
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It is awesome. New ideas and new technologies makes this the most interesting era for BA yet.
The RAF. They lost a good thing in Irian, though. The Quirinus, Simian and Taranis are all pretty swank. But, let's not forget they have Purifiers and Angeronas to fall back on. Somewhere there is also the Purifier (Terra) factory making a few suits for the RAF Special Forces. I haven't had a chance to use the Centaur yet, and the value of BA artillery doesn't jump out at me. But, it can mechanize and provide close in direct fire artillery on the cheap. The emphasis seems to be on flexibility from what I can tell. As a fan of that perspective I dig the RAF suits.
Close second would be the DCMS. The selection of armor is amazing. The use of reflective armor is really powerful when the clans and clan laser using AFFS are your primary enemies. They have mostly abandoned the assault BA concept and stuck with lighter suits. Even the Zou, which is a pocket assault is meant to mechanize. Seeing the DCMS's traditional emphasis on speed expressed in their armor philosophy is very satisfying. They still have the Void, which is one of the most powerful BA ever built by the Inner Sphere, and the Raiden AI and Raiden II are good upgrades.
The AFFS. They peaked with the Grenadier. The Sea Fox and Fusilier are interesting, which is always an appreciated quality. But, overall, yeah, I see them losing their edge. The Infiltrator MkII hasn't aged very well, for that matter.
Kisho or Quirnus. They both fall squarely into the interesting category while still being powerful.
The Cuchulain. It isn't terrible, but the perception is that it is the greatest thing ever.
I'll tell you what is the most underrated these days: the Sloth. It just keeps getting better and better.
I guess so. But, to me, it is just an improvement over what came before. It doesn't even do anything unique. The old Trinity suits could at least claim to be MRR touting 3 ground MP city fighters. The Amazon is a slight improvement over the IS Standard with LRR. The biggest bonus, however, is having an arm mounted weapon in the offhand chance you want to swarm something. It's good, but I don't know... not all that impressive.
Yeah, that's not a bad suit. It and the Phalanx got a big hand up with their weapon changes.
It reminds me of a Fenrir 1.5 for some reason.
Only the FWLM and AFFS fall into meh territory for me. All other players have a really impressive stable of battle armors. If we want to talk about the clans, who is using the Elemental II? They pretty much wins hands down thanks to the power of the BA myomer booster. After that, the Falcons, because the Ironhold is patently ridiculous.
I agree with most of your points. RAF is the clear winner as it gets access to the most munchy stuff also in the BA department...
Out of all the canon suits, the Taranis is probably the most optimized.
I cannot agree on your judgement of the Chuchu and the DCMS BAs.
If it weren't for the Laser Reflective armor, I would actually consider them utterly useless. The armament is completely anemic and far from being optimized.
The Chuhu is absolutely great. It only has one flaw and that is the lack of Magnetic Clamps and a Firedrake instead of that more or less useless 11th point of armor. But 11 points of Improved Stealth armor and DWP to make the best of the armament (a freaking ER Medium Pulse times 4/5 for crying out loud!). If it had higher mobility and more versatility as suggested above, it would be probably the best canon Battle armor ever conceived when it comes to fighting Mechs (but also not bad at fighting other BA due to the range, dmg and better to hit numbers). It is also a very good bodyguard unit, although as I said. With the suggested changes, it could be the perfect bodyguard unit.
Speaking of Lyran BAs... the Fenrir II is pretty good and a logical evolution of the rather subpar predecessor. But when you think of it, it is also not making the most of it potential. If it had used 15 armor instead of 17, one could have done even more with the turret. Also I'm really missing a variant with 1 or even 2 King David GR.
Speaking of which (again), I fully agree on your verdict of the Sloth. The Huntsman variant is similar to what I always imagined it could be. 2 King Davids with Improved Stealth Armor and Mechanical Jump Booster? Surely nothing to sneeze at, albeit at the price of not having much in common with the original. Probably the best counter to those nasty Ironholds the Lyrans are facing, I presume.
The new Gray Death BAs are pretty much useless in my mind, due to trying to fill too many roles without proper modular armament. Speciality beats flexibility 8/10 times, I'd say. The Gray Death Heavy in turn is using tech that is simply too outdated to be competitive.
Overall, I'd put the Lyrans at second or third (behind the Capellans).
FWL BAs seem okay, but leave me somewhat unimpressed and uninspired.
Clear last are the FedSuns. They still got the fancy Grenadier and Hauberk suits, but the new stuff? What the heck? Even the new assault is not exactly a good idea, I think. An assault BA is an assault BA is an assault BA is an assault BA and not a medium... That's all there is to say. The Sniper is pretty good for a PAL suit. The Sea Fox is a highly specialized suit. Not much more to say.
So they still rely on the Grenadiers and Hauberks, which lost a lot of their magic come 3145.
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Just saying all the reactive, reflective or stealth armours mean little when a traditional missile boat starts unleashing the infernos.
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The Chuhu is absolutely great. It only has one flaw and that is the lack of Magnetic Clamps and a Firedrake instead of that more or less useless 11th point of armor. But 11 points of Improved Stealth armor and DWP to make the best of the armament (a freaking ER Medium Pulse times 4/5 for crying out loud!). If it had higher mobility and more versatility as suggested above, it would be probably the best canon Battle armor ever conceived when it comes to fighting Mechs (but also not bad at fighting other BA due to the range, dmg and better to hit numbers). It is also a very good bodyguard unit, although as I said. With the suggested changes, it could be the perfect bodyguard unit.
Removing the 11th point of armor would gain you 35kg. Mag Clamps are 30kg and Firedrakes are 50kg, so at best you're getting the former only. As a Clan design, intended for forces with a relatively high number of OmniMechs compared to IS forces, some might prefer the extra armor to the Clamps.
If it had higher mobility, you'd be reducing the armor even further and/or downgrading the main gun, as it lacks the mass otherwise.
The new Gray Death BAs are pretty much useless in my mind, due to trying to fill too many roles without proper modular armament. Speciality beats flexibility 8/10 times, I'd say.
Confused here. You're saying that the GD suits lack "proper modular armament", which from that wording suggests that you're promoting the benefits of modularity, but then your next sentence contradicts that.
Or are you saying that what modular armament they have isn't ideal and they could do with better (which generally means heavier and bulkier) weapon choices? If so, what will be reduced to provide the mass? Armor, mobility or both?
As for speciality beating flexibility, then often, yes... except when you bring the wrong specialist to the fight. At least with units with modular configurations, a unit might have time for a quick reconfiguration by the unit techs, but for units with fixed equipment, then you're waiting for redeployment from other locations, perhaps even from off-world.
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Just saying all the reactive, reflective or stealth armours mean little when a traditional missile boat starts unleashing the infernos.
Although being stealthy can stop the Infernos from hitting you in the first place. Unless it actually is Stealth armor and the missile boat is replaced by SRM infantry, in which case you're SOL.
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Removing the 11th point of armor would gain you 35kg. Mag Clamps are 30kg and Firedrakes are 50kg, so at best you're getting the former only. As a Clan design, intended for forces with a relatively high number of OmniMechs compared to IS forces, some might prefer the extra armor to the Clamps.
Yeah, blame me for remembering incorrectly the Cuchu's amount of armor. It's 12 and not 11. So if you use a DWP Firedrake instead of a regular one, it works out as stated ;)
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Confused here. You're saying that the GD suits lack "proper modular armament", which from that wording suggests that you're promoting the benefits of modularity, but then your next sentence contradicts that.
Or are you saying that what modular armament they have isn't ideal and they could do with better (which generally means heavier and bulkier) weapon choices? If so, what will be reduced to provide the mass? Armor, mobility or both?
As for speciality beating flexibility, then often, yes... except when you bring the wrong specialist to the fight. At least with units with modular configurations, a unit might have time for a quick reconfiguration by the unit techs, but for units with fixed equipment, then you're waiting for redeployment from other locations, perhaps even from off-world.
I should have been more specific, it seems.
What I meant was that in case of the GD Infiltrator, it has 3 MPs and at the same time 3 Jump MPs, which is unconventional to say the least. So dropping the 3 MPs would net 80 kgs, which is quite a bit for a medium chassis. More armor/weaponry or special equipment available. Though from an in-universe perspective or judging from the fluff, I can understand doing it the way it was been done. Overall, the Lyrans don't have much reasons to complain concerning their BAs. Remember, they also still have the Rottweiler with all its more or less useful variants.
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Although being stealthy can stop the Infernos from hitting you in the first place. Unless it actually is Stealth armor and the missile boat is replaced by SRM infantry, in which case you're SOL.
I wanted to make a similar remark, but then I remembered that BA are often deployed into forests. And once that forest is burning, the stealth armor does indeed do little.
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I cannot agree on your judgement of the Chuchu and the DCMS BAs.
If it weren't for the Laser Reflective armor, I would actually consider them utterly useless. The armament is completely anemic and far from being optimized.
On the Kishi? Oh brother, that thing is the spawn of hell. Fast, cheap, hard hitting against this era's infantry, able to take a pounding from energy weapons and able to put the hurt on other BA. Point for point I think it is one of the better BA ever built. That's kind of the point, it is super low on BV for the havok it can cause.
The Chuhu is absolutely great. It only has one flaw and that is the lack of Magnetic Clamps and a Firedrake instead of that more or less useless 11th point of armor. But 11 points of Improved Stealth armor and DWP to make the best of the armament (a freaking ER Medium Pulse times 4/5 for crying out loud!).
No, the Chuchu is not that good. For all the bluster about the stealth armor, mechanizing and ERMPL, people seem to forget the enormous BV that goes with it. Not that the BV isn't justified. However, if I am going to pay that kind of BV I better have a way of dealing with/escaping infantry attacks, a secondary weapon or both. The Chucho has none of those. It has armored gloves. That can be a little munchy, but no substitute of an actual AI weapon. I could forgive those flaws if it wasn't for the fact that it comes in at 60% more than the Zou, and almost 3x the BV of a Kishi.
If it had higher mobility and more versatility as suggested above, it would be probably the best canon Battle armor ever conceived when it comes to fighting Mechs (but also not bad at fighting other BA due to the range, dmg and better to hit numbers). It is also a very good bodyguard unit, although as I said. With the suggested changes, it could be the perfect bodyguard unit.
It isn't a terrible suit. It just isn't the best suit ever made. I wouldn't want to face them on the other side. I just think it is an overrated suit, THE overrated suit.
The new Gray Death BAs are pretty much useless in my mind, due to trying to fill too many roles without proper modular armament. Speciality beats flexibility 8/10 times, I'd say.
I don't agree in this case. The GD Infiltrator is meant for infiltration and special operations, not line of battle. Having both 3/3 MPs is a genius idea. In fact, it stuck me as odd no one thought of it before. Add to that the armor, standard DLGR and modular weapon mount, you got options. Lots of options. To think, the same suit can jump 3, run 3, TAG someone and still ping them with DLGR shots. That is an inspired suit.
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I should have been more specific, it seems.
What I meant was that in case of the GD Infiltrator, it has 3 MPs and at the same time 3 Jump MPs, which is unconventional to say the least. So dropping the 3 MPs would net 80 kgs, which is quite a bit for a medium chassis. More armor/weaponry or special equipment available. Though from an in-universe perspective or judging from the fluff, I can understand doing it the way it was been done. Overall, the Lyrans don't have much reasons to complain concerning their BAs. Remember, they also still have the Rottweiler with all its more or less useful variants.
As I said earlier, I do enjoy the GD Infiltrator, even with the quirky movement. It actually came in handy in a game to keep up a "respectable" THM where jumping wouldn't have worked (spotting for arty and didn't want to get closer, but didn't want to get farther away which would have meant leaving cover; lets play ring around the forrest on the GROUND!) They aren't mainline combatants and I am more of the faction-specific type if I can help it. They worked well as a harasser/artillery spotter and sold me on their effectiveness in that roll.
Between the Rotty, Fenrir II, Chuchoo, and GD Infiltrator I'd say the Lyrans are doing alright. They aren't "perfect" but they don't suck either. And I'm a Fenrir supporter even with the high mortality rate haha :)
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This certainly the era for Battle Armor. I find myself liking mix of the suits put out by the various powers than just one faction has the edge.
I do think FedSun's didn't get all the good ones this time. Variants of the older ones for them are better specially when 3085 rang in the updated suits, like Inflintrator MkII with magetic clamps.
Of the new suits I like quads for some reasons, the Shen Long, Fenrir II, and Buraq Fast Battle Armor. I found them interesting, having speedy and hard hitting suits supporting my Mech forces useful. The Buraq may not have a lot in firepower department, but its speed and other aspects make up for it. I find it hilarious cool image wise of horse armor galloping around.
Black Wolf is pretty snazzy firepower packing suit, I'm not big on heavy & assault suits but they're pretty decent for suit of their size. Packing that BA LB-X is nice touch.
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Don't undersell the Buraq. Anything that fast able to mount a Bearhunter is a tad intimidating. Though, I have to say I'm a little disappointed in the idea of clan quad BA. It seems like a waste, or a little counterproductive to take hulking Elementals and jam them inside the cockpit of a quad.
I am glad to see some of the more arcane equipment, like the Simian's magnetic claws and Shen Long's pop-up mine seeing use. The overuse of the medium Recoiless Rifle is getting old. To see a few pieces of equipment that seldom see use is fun, no matter how questionable they might be in performance.
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The Chucho has none of those. It has armored gloves. That can be a little munchy, but no substitute of an actual AI weapon.
I wish it had an armored glove, but sadly it has twin basic manipulators. Even though armored gloves are superior to APWMs, I'd agree that a proper Mech-scale anti-infantry weapon would be much better.
Sadly, with the mass the Cuchulainn has available after its chassis, motive system and main gun, it only has the armor mass to scavenge. Even using the suggestion of dropping the armor to 10 points doesn't allow for very much in that regard, with the Firedrake, LMG and Inner Sphere Micro GL being the only options, and the latter two requiring the use of a DWP.
The Firedrake is very powerful vs PBIs, but is short ranged. Many infantry platoons can outrange the Firedrake, and that's not a good thing for such a slow suit. The LMG has better range, but there are still platoons that will outrange it and its anti-infantry damage isn't that great. The Micro GL does have the possibility of alternative ammo loads, but suffers from even shorter range than the Firedrake and the same low damage of the LMG.
All in all, my preference would be to support a Cuchulainn unit with something that can kill PBIs, whether it be infantry of my own or something with APGRs.
I don't agree in this case. The GD Infiltrator is meant for infiltration and special operations, not line of battle. Having both 3/3 MPs is a genius idea. In fact, it stuck me as odd no one thought of it before. Add to that the armor, standard DLGR and modular weapon mount, you got options. Lots of options. To think, the same suit can jump 3, run 3, TAG someone and still ping them with DLGR shots. That is an inspired suit.
Yes. Saved me from addressing that further. :)
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I do think FedSun's didn't get all the good ones this time.
Which was deliberate. The AFFS already had most of the boxes ticked as far as roles were concerned, so it was more a case of filling the niches and backfilling fluff in the case of the PAB-28. The Fusilier met the need for something that could actually take a hit, while the Sea Fox and Infiltrator Mk II (Marine) occupy definitely limited niches in gaming terms, but ones that a "real life" military might wish to see filled.
The AFFS still have one of the longest ranged battlesuits in the Hauberk, only exceeded by the new Centaur and matched by the few other LRM armed suits. The Hauberk II and Hauberk Commando are a little meh on the firepower/range front, but the latter does have the advantage of Mimetic, and if either do catch you up close it can be painful. The Grenadier is still a powerful assault suit, even with newer designs that can technically outshoot it, such as the Kopis. Of course, given that the Grenadier can be loaded with Infernos, damage capability isn't always measured in raw firepower.
The standard Infiltrator Mk II is still a great IS medium thanks to the Magshot, and was improved even more as the Magnetic variant. The Sensor variant gives them a viable scout and if you really feel the need for BA C3, then there's the Coral Intent. The venerable old Cavalier still has a role to play as the generic suit that does the lifting that the others can't manage and the Waddle is... the Waddle.
If they're missing anything, it's in the TAG arena, although they have the Sea Fox and PA(L)s that can wield an Infantry TAG in their armored gloves, while the Grenadier and Cavalier could mount a Light TAG as a custom config. With the latter option, then like other states, there's lots more available that can stiffen up an already solid line-up.
For me, the remaining roles that need addressing are a heavy battlesuit (that the Fusilier should have been given my preferences) and an artillery suit. A more balanced gun-armed assault would be nice, but would really be a luxury than a serious need. Updating the Cavalier would be another nice-to-have, but not a necessity; in truth, a lot could be done simply with some extra configs, which shouldn't be a problem in-universe.
I recognize that some of the AFFS suits might find themselves outperformed to one degree or another in certain roles within the artificial limitations of a scenario, but if viewed as a whole and with in-universe eyes, their battle armor corps is superb.
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I wish it had an armored glove, but sadly it has twin basic manipulators. Even though armored gloves are superior to APWMs, I'd agree that a proper Mech-scale anti-infantry weapon would be much better.
Yep, for some reason I confused it with the Fusilier's armored glove.
I recognize that some of the AFFS suits might find themselves outperformed to one degree or another in certain roles within the artificial limitations of a scenario, but if viewed as a whole and with in-universe eyes, their battle armor corps is superb.
I get the same impression from their conventional infantry.
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Yep, for some reason I confused it with the Fusilier's armored glove.
I get the same impression from their conventional infantry.
They got their Barrett armed infantry in a House book so what more did they need?
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So, this may require a new thread, but how many BA threads do we want up at the same time?
In 3145, what are the best transports for Assault Battle Armor?
The Trireme looks good, and so do the Maxim II, but they have limited availability.
Thoughts?
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Depends on what rules you want to follow, lol . . .
My vote goes to the Kirghiz C however.
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Well, lets say to keep things simple all BA count as 1 ton of cargo. The FedSuns has access to the Maxim (I) which can mount 8 or 12 tons I think. They don't seem to have much else that makes a good delivery system.
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Bwa?! They have the Hasek. It isn't a bulk carrier, but it is close to being a Myrmidon.
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They got their Barrett armed infantry in a House book so what more did they need?
Some record sheets w/BV would be nice.
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Don't undersell the Buraq. Anything that fast able to mount a Bearhunter is a tad intimidating. Though, I have to say I'm a little disappointed in the idea of clan quad BA. It seems like a waste, or a little counterproductive to take hulking Elementals and jam them inside the cockpit of a quad.
Actually, I think the Clans would develop more stuff like quads, or "cockpited" designs like the Warg, and for one simple reason: Freeborn Troops. The fluff always says that Elemental and other Clan humanoid BA is sized for Elementals (although the this isnt reflected in gameplay, and is even ignored in fiction), thus you'd think they'd want some simple way to make BA that a person of any size can use. And thus a quad would be great, since you sit in it more than wear it.
Just a thought.
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I keep picturing that Mech like the Buraq is setup like a armored motorcycle with legs instead of a suit. Guy sitting in armored cockpit like a motorcycle, with head to inner helmet which is gettng 360 view. I know fluff about the Hell's Horse having captured former Lyran Battle Armor pilots (captured by the Falcons) who were pilots for quad armors like the Fenrir and Rottweiler showed Horses how they handle their machines..
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I actually think the AFFS suits are holding up quite well, with the obvious exception of the Cavalier. The lack of updates on the flagship suit hurts them a bit.
That being said, I think the Grenadier is the gold standard for BA damage. It can handle other battle armor or mech forces quite well. Furthermore, the new Fusilier, while being somewhat smeared by the fluff, is an absolute brute in its Reflective mode. That thing will terrorize other BA with its amount of armor and the Plasma Rifle.
Lastly, while it is an in-universe and not a tabletop piece of evidence, the AFFS just has more BA to throw at people. By 3145 even lowly LCTs have a full regiment of BA. That means 750+ suits. Even if 500 of them are Cavaliers, and the other 250 are a hodge podge of Pumas, Hauberks, Grenadiers and Fusliers--that is a lot of battlearmor for anyone to deal with in any setting.
Pretty sure its around a 1000 suits? I am fairly sure FedSun's BA Base 4 continues up to regimental level. 4/16/64/256/1024?
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Per this thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,15197.0.html), it would indeed be 1024 suits for an AFFS BA regt.
I want a regt with 1020 Hauberks, plus 4 Infiltrator Mk IIs to go spot for the torrent of LRMs. The BV might be a little steep though.
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Hmm . . . can you load Semi-G into Hauberks?
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Not without house rules. Battle armor are limited to loading their SRMs and LRM launchers with regular missiles, torpedos, Infernos (SRMs only) and Multi-Purpose Missiles (Clans & LRMs only).
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Not without house rules. Battle armor are limited to loading their SRMs and LRM launchers with regular missiles, torpedos, Infernos (SRMs only) and Multi-Purpose Missiles (Clans & LRMs only).
Thankfully, that's one house rule that MegaMek has definitely incorporated. There are few things more delightful than a Star of LRM Gnomes with S-G LRMs and Support Buraqs for spotters.
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Not without house rules. Battle armor are limited to loading their SRMs and LRM launchers with regular missiles, torpedos, Infernos (SRMs only) and Multi-Purpose Missiles (Clans & LRMs only).
Question: I thought, Torpedos were restricted to Torpedo Launchers (SRT & LRTs).
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Not battle armor torpedos. They're just an alternative ammo type rather than requiring a different launcher like on Mechs and vehicles.
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Not battle armor torpedos. They're just an alternative ammo type rather than requiring a different launcher like on Mechs and vehicles.
Thanks for clearing that up! I guess its balancing thing.
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Per this thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,15197.0.html), it would indeed be 1024 suits for an AFFS BA regt.
Good golly. Those FedSuns must be eating their Wheaties. That's a lot of beefcakes.
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If at least 50% or so are Cavaliers, then that leaves plenty of room for the beefy suits. Can you imagine a company of Grenadiers greeting you?
"Welcome to Kathil. Courtesy of 100 inferno missles, we will inter your ashes here. Have a nice stay."
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If at least 50% or so are Cavaliers, then that leaves plenty of room for the beefy suits. Can you imagine a company of Grenadiers greeting you?
"Welcome to Kathil. Courtesy of 100 inferno missles, we will inter your ashes here. Have a nice stay."
Seeing as how the dao instead of the broadsword flies over New Syrtis, color me less than impressed.
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If at least 50% or so are Cavaliers, then that leaves plenty of room for the beefy suits.
I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that unless otherwise stated the use of Inner Sphere battle armor require operators of larger size. The Kishi make specific mention of how it was built to get around that particular bottleneck, which was a problem for the DCMS. I don't recall mention of the Cavalier being built for easy operation.
Can you imagine a company of Grenadiers greeting you?
"Welcome to Kathil. Courtesy of 100 inferno missles, we will inter your ashes here. Have a nice stay."
Might be more intinidating for the Dracs than Cappies. The CCAF would take note, rub chin and throw down rolling artillery. Not that is seems to be helping to stop either military.
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In AToW, there are minimum STR and BOD requirements for IS Battle Armour training. So yeah, generally you need to be on the big side to get in.
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Seeing as how the dao instead of the broadsword flies over New Syrtis, color me less than impressed.
We'll see how long that last compared to how long the Suns flag was waving over say Laio?
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Can you imagine a company of Grenadiers greeting you?
"Welcome to Kathil. Courtesy of 100 inferno missles, we will inter your ashes here. Have a nice stay."
Oni BA says thankyou.
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If we ever see Oni on Kathil me thinks the World will have changed significantly.
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If we ever see Oni on Kathil me thinks the World will have changed significantly.
Yeah, really. I know the Dracs are doing well... but wow.
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Question: I thought, Torpedos were restricted to Torpedo Launchers (SRT & LRTs).
Nope, magical BA LRMs can work both under and over water. ;) ::)
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I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that unless otherwise stated the use of Inner Sphere battle armor require operators of larger size. The Kishi make specific mention of how it was built to get around that particular bottleneck, which was a problem for the DCMS.
Maybe this is why teh Lyrans seem to like quad suits
In AToW, there are minimum STR and BOD requirements for IS Battle Armour training. So yeah, generally you need to be on the big side to get in.
So bodybuilders or football players?
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Actually, unlike earlier versions of the RPG, under ATOW rules, there aren't any stat minimums to use battle armor, or to learn how to operate one with adhoc training. The skill minimums only apply to the appropriate skill fields and life modules. See this confirmation (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,24367.msg546878.html).
That means that any character, even one with BOD 1, could spend 20 xp and pick up a basic understanding of battlesuit piloting. That same character couldn't take the Pilot (Exoskeleton) Field or Elemental Trueborn Sibko Module, as both training programs have minimum stat requirements.
I can't say that I agree with the change.
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Bringing this back to State of Battle Armor in the Inner Sphere: 3145.
Who can list their factions BA in 3145? There seems to be a bit of general ignorance of what is available in 3145 and who has what. A bit of show me yours and I will show you mine will fix that.
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Well shoot, I'll bite.
In order of decreasing frequency to the best of my knowledge:
Cavalier (by an order of magnitude the most common)
Infiltrator Mk. II
Grenadier
Hauberk (probably very close to similar numbers with Grenadier?)
Infiltrator Mk I. Sloth (Huntsman, Interdictor, etc)
Fusilier
PAB-28
Sea Fox
I'm sure there are some Grey Death and IS Standard suits in the AFFS, but I believe the above list forms the bulk of the AFFS BA forces. Lastly, I remember reading Clan Medium "Rabid" suits were also in use, but I would guess they would be very infrequent.
Cheers,
Mad
Edit: Confused Waddle with Sloth, woops!
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Due to some very helpful discussions with Sillybrit, I could also give a shot at the CCAF and DCMS. What I thought most important at the time was the question of what suits would form the bulk of the frontline forces fighting the AFFS.
We came up with the Kishi, Void, then Raiden for the most common DCMS suits in descending order.
For the CCAF, I believe we discussed the Amazon, Fa Shih, and IS Standard.
While these aren't complete lists by any means, they helped me with what BA squads I should practice playing as and against in MegaMek games. :P
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Speaking of which, for the DCMS, I forgot to mention the Oni: that'll be found in the lower grade units, such as garrisons or any regiment that receives the High Command's stink eye.
For the AFFS, also add the Tunnel Rat IV. Also, that list should read Sloth where you have Infiltrator Mk I. There may be some Waddles still left, but probably only in limited numbers in some spec ops units.
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And to answer Jellico's question: Nighthawk... oh wait, 3145. Well, damn.
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I do hope the TPTB will figure out a way to release the militized variant Exoskeletons like the Tunnel Rat IV in record sheet form. Without the RS: VA Revised.... :-X
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dosen't the MUL say what units are used by which faction?
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Some units on the MUL still have certain eras marked as to be announced.
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There's a reference to a Davion squad possessing salamander suits in the Calliope's write up. I guess a question to add is "What are the Sea Foxes selling"
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Speaking of which, for the DCMS, I forgot to mention the Oni: that'll be found in the lower grade units, such as garrisons or any regiment that receives the High Command's stink eye.
For the AFFS, also add the Tunnel Rat IV. Also, that list should read Sloth where you have Infiltrator Mk I. There may be some Waddles still left, but probably only in limited numbers in some spec ops units.
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And to answer Jellico's question: Nighthawk... oh wait, 3145. Well, damn.
If you roll really low with the Lyran's 3145 RAT you can run a Nighthawk :D
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There's a reference to a Davion squad possessing salamander suits in the Calliope's write up. I guess a question to add is "What are the Sea Foxes selling"
Might be easier to ask "What aren't they selling" :-P
Still, if Salamanders are making it into IS regular armies, that would add weight to my suspicions that the Elemental must be available enough to make IS Standard (and by extension, the Cavalier) obsolete for regular House troops.
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Might be easier to ask "What aren't they selling" :-P
No kidding. Militia units in the former Free Worlds were using Gnomes during the Lyran invasion.
Still, if Salamanders are making it into IS regular armies, that would add weight to my suspicions that the Elemental must be available enough to make IS Standard (and by extension, the Cavalier) obsolete for regular House troops.
Maybe not in the Free Worlds. They had plenty of IS Standard factories before the split, and demand for battle armor may have skyrocketed when independent militaries formed. Then again, the arms trade among rival states was in some cases rampant.