BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => Strategic Combat => Topic started by: Korzon77 on 25 July 2015, 01:26:25
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So, since it's out, we no longer have to ask when :).
I have a few questions about it.
1. HAve the writers delved into the madness that is FASAnomics and given us guidence on how to produce stuff on the strategic level? If so, any hints on how to integrate more realistic production rates?
2. How do the alternate eras look?
3. When printed out, is it heavy enough to be used as a bludgeoning weapon?
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1. Production of stuff, at least in the ISiF sense, is more along the lines of "Oh hey you used ## RP and created a Combat unit."
The rules even state the unit can appear in any world you have aside from the Other Worlds.
Apparently they've classified systems and Other Worlds are simple systems that produce nothing in the industrial sense.
Now there are some rules to allow you the ability to upgrade infrastructure. So that Minor factory world could be bumped up to a Major, if you spend the appropriate amount of bank.
As for how many Griffins House Steiner churns out yearly? Pffft no and I'm glad they don't do that.
2. No clear idea on how they are within the ISiF set up. I'm guessing future publications? I mean this is a Beta currently, so they stuck with 3025.
Now in the other chapters, it seems they provide some decent overviews.
A write up briefly explaining the era, a list of factions available within the years, bullet points of what Tech to expect, and then there's that UNIVERSAL TECHNOLOGY ADVANCEMENT TABLE which I love. Then we've got the rules for certain era things like LAMs, Tripods, and the like.
3. Ecological protestors and the EPA stopped me from printing. They muttered some BS about "losing a whole rainforest" for one section. BAH!
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Atlas3060 pretty much nailed it on the head. ISW (Inner Sphere at War) deals in construction at a more generic level since the default combat system for ISW is ACS which has a single game piece being a Battalion in size. When constructing military equipment it is done a company at a time and just by the unit and size classification, so you just build a Light Mech Company or a Heavy Vehicle Company. There are some tweaks like faction specific Mech formations.
ISW by default is designed to work for Succession Wars campaigns. There is enough in the rule to allow you to play other eras with some work on your end. The rules would just be too massive to provide era specific stuff in IO. We plan to release future supplements to expand the ISW rules to other eras and detailed rules for specific areas.
Best,
Joel BC
ISW Developer
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Just picked it up, looks nice but I have one minor nitpick.
It's security locked so ?I couldn't add bookmarks to the file for easier navigation. Is there anyway to jigger the security settings so you can add bookmarks without opening up to general copying?
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Will there be any pre-made units for the factions, so people have starter units they could print?
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Will there be any pre-made units for the factions, so people have starter units they could print?
We have pre-made Generic companies which we'll probably post online as we didn't have room in the book for them. From these players can make battalion and regimental formations.
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Including non-standard formations like Capellan Augmented Lances or Strategic Command Stars?
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Including non-standard formations like Capellan Augmented Lances or Strategic Command Stars?
The Capellan Augmented Lances have become fairly standard in the CCAF so they could be included in CCAF companies. The strategic command stars are not common (not to mention there are variants) so probably not.
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Are there any sample ISW 30 light-year hex maps up yet?
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Officially not yet, fan creations? That's a good question and I have no answers for.
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Officially not yet, fan creations? That's a good question and I have no answers for.
I'm working on a couple, but my Gimp-fu is weak. I likely won't bother with a full Inner Sphere, but instead smaller "front" maps for conflicts like the 4SW and War of 3039.
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I'd like a small test map, realms about the size of the Tortuga Dominions to make quick playthroughs, learning games, demo games and the like possible
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building a unit is a painful task....decided to work on a spread sheet so that future force building is easier...but even that is a painful task
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Early this week I will have generic company builds usable for ACS posted in this thread.
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I made some battalion strength formations but I think I am just to old and stupid I think my numbers did not come out right
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For ISW map for the whole Inner Sphere I took this map
http://iscs.teamspam.net/pdf/iscs_borders_3025.pdf (http://iscs.teamspam.net/pdf/iscs_borders_3025.pdf)
Then converted it from pdf to jpg at 600 dpi using a free internet converter.
Next I used roll20.net to make a virtual tabletop map with these settings:
146 units x 94 units
1 unit = 5 hexes
Grid enabled at 1 units
Diagonals: your choice
Type: Hex(h)
Check yes show labels
Color: dark grey
Opacity : Medium
Fog of war : not enabled
Gm opacity: middle
This is a zoomed in picture of the map.
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x384/Yikes51/ISW%20Map_zpsfrtdmnck.png) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/Yikes51/media/ISW%20Map_zpsfrtdmnck.png.html)
Also to get the hex measured to 30LY I just adjusted the hex length to the distance legend.
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x384/Yikes51/30%20LY%20Hex_zpsia0dr1ge.png) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/Yikes51/media/30%20LY%20Hex_zpsia0dr1ge.png.html)
Zoomed Out
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x384/Yikes51/whole%20ISW%20map_zpscqjqaixr.png) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/Yikes51/media/whole%20ISW%20map_zpscqjqaixr.png.html)
What do you guys think?
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yup cannot wait to play this ...yes I am apart of this test....now if I could get my math to work when building formations lol
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kreedo that is awesome.
However do you have a link to the original png? I tried clicking on the zoomed out and then saving that image and it is just bad pixels if you zoom in.
Or is the only way to get a legible copy to actually do the steps you did?
thanks
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The 600 DPI converter is important to get a decent resolution map.
So yes, the given instructions are best. At least for me.
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Kreedo is the best RCOM in the sky rangers
http://www.skye-rangers.net/
http://www.skye-rangers.net/forum/viewforum/3402054/m/3241960
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this is what I have for my first Battalion I think some of my numbers are off tell me
1st Davion Assault Guards 1st Battalion
size move move jump TMM ARM S M L Skill PV
mode
Command Lance 3 2 6 3 5 7 4 5 3 2 59.6
1st Company 3 3 6 2 3 20 9 12 7 3 153.6
2nd Company 2 3 6 4 6 21 10 10 5 2 157.4
3rd Company 3 2 6 3 4 25 10 11 6 4 138.7
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Your movement is probably too low. Likely you halved the TW movement for your units, instead of halving the AS movement.
It's kind of confusing because it converts from AS, not TW.
AS movement is 2 inches per 1 walking speed.
I think these are equivalent movement speeds:
TW: 4/6
AS: 8"
SBF: 4
See the example on p339.
Don't forget unit specials, if applicable.
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Here are generic company-level units for 3039 / 3025 play. The * units are companies with Comstar "gift" 'mechs.
Company Size Move Mode TMM Armor S M L PV Special
CC Assault 4 4 l 2 17 5 5 2 143 FLK1/-
DC Assault 4 3 l 1 18 5 5 4 154
DC* Assault 4 4 l 2 18 4 5 4 147
FS Assault 4 3 l 1 19 5 5 4 152 FLK1/-
FWL Assault 4 3 l 1 19 5 5 4 153
LC Assault 4 3 l 2 18 5 5 4 149 FLK1/-
CC Heavy 3 4 l 2 16 4 4 3 135
DC Heavy 3 4 l 2 16 4 4 3 138
DC* Heavy 3 5 l 3 16 5 5 2 135
FS Heavy 3 4 l 2 17 4 4 2 138 FLK1/-
FWL Heavy 3 4 l 2 17 4 4 3 141
LC Heavy 3 4 l 2 16 4 4 3 135
CC Medium 2 5 l 4 14 3 3 2 117
DC Medium 2 5 l 3 14 3 3 2 120
DC* Medium 2 5 l 3 13 4 4 1 114
FS Medium 2 5 l 3 14 4 4 2 117 FLK1/-
FWL Medium 2 5 l 3 14 3 3 2 123
LC Medium 2 5 l 3 14 3 4 2 117
CC Light 1 6 l 4 10 2 2 1 87 RCN
DC Light 1 6 l 4 10 3 3 1 93 RCN
DC* Light 1 7 l 3 10 3 3 1 87 RCN
FS Light 1 6 l 4 10 3 3 1 93 FLK1/-,RCN
LC Light 1 6 l 4 10 3 3 1 87 RCN
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I was told my pv is to high because the templet is wrong I have to divide by 3 twice in two different spots on the same number so instead of being in the hundreds my battalion should of been in the 50s for PV
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Going from individual 'mechs to Lances = divide total PV by 3.
Going from Lances to Companies = add the PV together.
Forming Companies into Battalions = divide total PV by 3.
So a Battalion should probably have between 100-200 PV in 3025-3039.
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I'm having an issue with how the ACS is supposed to work.
To make an attack, here is my understanding.
You declare attacks from formation to formation.
You roll one attack per Combat Unit in your formation.
Damage is resolved using random assignment or opposed tactics roll depending on what was agreed by the players.
Is this right? If so, doesn't an ACS Formation need a TMM?
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You attack Combat Units in a Formation. Formation's are very much an abstraction in ACS. Most of the real work is at the Combat Unit level.
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I'll admit, this is one of the few things I really don't like about systems from Battleforce on up - the fact that different components of a playing piece can have different TMMs. It makes it impossible to use modifier dice to display the TMM, allowing players to calculate their to-hits without having to constantly pester the other player about the TMM of each sub-component of a target, interrupting their own to-hit calculations. In my experience, it slows things down to the point that Battleforce games don't go much faster than TW ones, for a given number of playing pieces. It's probably a bit late to revise everything from BForce on up to ACS in this manner, otherwise I'd advise that all the sub-units of a playing piece average their TMMs together, and that average apply to every unit within that piece.
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working on these for Inner Sphere at war.. work in progress. Will have to be double sided.. but let me know what you all think
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are there planetary militia for those planets that don't have a formation on it?
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I would say a small one group. Battalion size for small population ones. Regiment on larger ones. But only infantry and tanks. As their main force.
are there planetary militia for those planets that don't have a formation on it?
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are there planetary militia for those planets that don't have a formation on it?
Not sure if this helps, but I did ask about that in the official feedback thread.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/catalyst-asks-you!/interstellar-operations-beta/msg1102531/#msg1102531
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I need the names of the regional capitols by major faction and minor faction for my IO 3025 map.
Does anyone have this list or the reference to where I can find them?
I'm a bit confused here since some maps have many regional capitols and some have just a few(such as the IO Beta example on page 348(book pg).
The reference I've used so far is the old Succession Wars game.
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Does anyone else have a problem with the disconnect between industrialization level, number of factories, income and fortifications?
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Nope. Australia has a very high level of industrialisation. Our industrial output is low, not only because of our low population (around that of the Greater London Council area), but because of economic reasons that make primary industry (mining, agriculture) far more profitable.
At least we haven't had a few centuries of unremitting warfare, nor has our phone company resorted to assassinating scientists. That I know of ;)
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Does anyone else have a problem with the disconnect between industrialization level, number of factories, income and fortifications?
Not necessarily. I can see a valid argument for having those all be very dependent, but in a post-Star League universe or Age of War I can see the other side, too, such that you could have a political entity that is advanced (high industrialization) but has very few factories. Or maybe another entity that has a lot of old fortifications that are centuries old, but then have little to no industrial base whatsoever. Eastern Europe ca. 1989 is a decent example of this.
Yeah, what worktroll said.
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http://battletech.rpg.hu/images/ismaps/3025.pdf Hope this help.. it has all them on it..
I need the names of the regional capitols by major faction and minor faction for my IO 3025 map.
Does anyone have this list or the reference to where I can find them?
I'm a bit confused here since some maps have many regional capitols and some have just a few(such as the IO Beta example on page 348(book pg).
The reference I've used so far is the old Succession Wars game.
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What I meant was ISaW tracks worlds by a generic industrialization level, but there's also that niffty factory by world listing and a table convert the number of factories on a world into it's industrialization level, that's all fine, it's mostly fluff.
Until you bring in ACS and fortifications. If you want to protect those factories you need to put them in fortifications, the problem is the way the game is set up the number of factories is variable, does that Minor Industrial World have 1 or 2? That Major can have anywhere between 3 and 7
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There is a chart for that for 3025 in the Beta. If you expand the industrial capacity of a world then that is something you have to track yourself in some manner.
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OK, New Earth is listed as a Minor Industrial World in the samples given, I pay 960 RP to upgrade it to Major. Now on a later turn I want to put my new factories into fortifications to protect them (I've already put it's starting factory into fortifications to protect it) but how many new factories do I have? According to the WORLD VALUES TABLE on page 350 (That's the PDF index) anywhere from 2 to 6
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That's the sort of good, specific question to raise in the official Beta thread, where the people who write the rules can see it, and add it to the list of things to look at.
Whereas your original question came across more philosophical, like "Why do elite units have better troops" :)
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I would assume that you would first have to upgrade it as a Minor Industrial World with it only having 1 Factory then you would have to upgrade it to a Major Industrial World.
Chart on page 350 shows a Minor Industrial World has 1-2 Factories while a Major has 3-7. Chart on page 351 shows that in 3025 New Earth has 1 Factory.
Thus my assumption is that you can only 1 Factory point at a time and would thus consult your book keeping method of choice or the chart on page 351.
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The problem is that there are two systems running side by side, the ISaW generic industrialization levels with a fluff factory number and ACS which uses that same fluff number in a concreate role
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That is a good point for the slightly less detailed economic setup rules.
For the detailed setup rules it is just a matter of tracking/book keeping since you will know exactly how many factories are on the indicated world.
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I would assume that you would first have to upgrade it as a Minor Industrial World with it only having 1 Factory then you would have to upgrade it to a Major Industrial World.
I saw the same thing, and put it up on the official feedback thread.
Mind you, I'm very much of the opinion that you shouldn't be able to upgrade a world in one gameturn. I'm used to the old classical model where you'd have to invest over a period of several to a dozen turns before upgrading economic infrastructure permanently. Yes, have some shortcuts - throwing money at things does help, but the return should be poor, eg. "halve the time, quadruple the cost", or worse.
And when it comes to colonisation ... establishing a colony successfully should be a matter of years, generating return from a colony should be a matter of decades.
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*nod*
It is a section of rules I would completely excise if it were up to me.
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You attack Combat Units in a Formation. Formation's are very much an abstraction in ACS. Most of the real work is at the Combat Unit level.
Thanks for the reply! I wish I had seen it earlier. Missed it somehow.
Ok, so damage is still applied to the Combat Unit right? We don't dive down into the Combat Teams correct? So there is no need for the opposed Tactics check to determine damage resolution as in SBF. Damage is alway dealt to the targeted Combat Unit?
Thanks!
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This just sort of came to me, the way the rules work for ISaW you need a hex amp, right? Is one provided? How do you make your own?
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This just sort of came to me, the way the rules work for ISaW you need a hex amp, right? Is one provided? How do you make your own?
In progress at this very moment.
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OK, the game is built around a minimum of 5 players plus a GM, what happens when I don't have that many? Most importantly how is diplomacy handled with these extra GM Factions?
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OK, the game is built around a minimum of 5 players plus a GM, what happens when I don't have that many? Most importantly how is diplomacy handled with these extra GM Factions?
One reads page 347 of the IO Beta, under "Choose Factions", subhead "Assign NPCs to Gamemaster".
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I would also highly recommend using a more limited scenario so that the lower number of players is less of an issue.
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It's just that without ANY sort of moderating factor the NPC factions combine and form voltron faction
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Then you need to talk with your gamemaster. The GM's not there to become galactic warlord, they're there to manage off-stage things. For example, say you have three people playing - yourself and two friends. Chosing to play CapCon vs. Combine will not yield a satisfyung game. FedSuns vs. Combine will. In such a scenario, the GM (apart from other responsibilities) would rule on any trade offers you or your opponent made to the Lyrans, Leaguers or CapCon. I'd consider it likely the only time military events involving the NPCs could happen would be if you or your friend decide to shortcut through NPC territory, or (for Ghu knows what reason) capture NPC worlds.
If your GM is manipulating the NPC states as you suggest, then it's my opinion they're doing it wrong.
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Which means he'll need a method to determine if a NPC race accepts a PCs treaty offer
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The rules also don't cover whether players should wear underpants while playing, either. Some issues must, perforce, be left to the GM's imagination.
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Wait, they don't?!
Sweet, that gives me yet another winning strategy! I'll try it at our tourney tomorrow!
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For ISIF will there be rules for moving existing factories & making new factories? Or will this be done at GM level?
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Making new factories, yes Inner Sphere at War has that. Moving them, I don't think so.
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For ISIF will there be rules for moving existing factories & making new factories? Or will this be done at GM level?
It's called Inner Sphere at War (ISW) now.
And the ISW rules as of the IO Beta don't contain rules for moving existing factories. They do contain rules for upgrading worlds from "other" (no factories) to "minor industrial" (1-2 factories), then to "major industrial" (3-7 factories). CORRECTION - there's no way to go from "major industrial" to "hyper industrial", so no more Coventries or Luthiens than the game starts with. Rules are on p351 of the IO Beta.
The Inner Sphere hasn't displayed any real "factory movement" capability in fiction. The Clans have, but the Clans are not in scope of the current Beta rules. This won't be forever, and this may be covered in future Clan expansions. Similarly, the current ruleset doesn't contain rules for Intelligence Operations, Communications or Interdictions, Research, or WarShips; that's not to say such rules won't eventually be released down the track.
W.
updated to correct small error.
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rasalhague moved some in advance of the clans, for what good that did them.
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Source on this inability ton make more hyper industrial worlds? They have a price after all.
And I've found another reason to hate the use of factories in the IO Beta. World output is tracked via industrialization level, but the factories may get damaged in an assault, but there is no rules on equating the loss of factories with a decline in industrialization level
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Source on this inability ton make more hyper industrial worlds? They have a price after all.
And I've found another reason to hate the use of factories in the IO Beta. World output is tracked via industrialization level, but the factories may get damaged in an assault, but there is no rules on equating the loss of factories with a decline in industrialization level
1) The rules, page 151. You can do A, and do B. There's no mention of C, D, E, Q, or Z.
2) Also not correct. Worlds with 0 factories are "other", with 1-2 factories "minor", with 3-7 "major", with 8+ "hyper". The full list of industrial worlds for the Inner Sphere in 3025 begins on page 349. Let's do an example.
Fred wants to play ISW. First, Fred puts on underpants (sorry, my house rule ;) ) does the setup. For the 3025 setup details given, the world of Irian has 3 factories, and counts as "major industrial". It produces 40RP per turn, which Fred can use as he wishes. Note: these RP are included in the starting RP of 1,336 listed for the FWL in 3025.
If the number of factories falls, eg. due to an assault, it would have 2 factories, be qualified as a "minor industrial" world, producing 24 RP.
If upgraded back to a "major industrial world", it would then produce 40 RP per turn.
Okay there's a formal gap here - how many factories does it then have? I'll make a note in the real feedback thread that this should be clarified; if it helps, work on the assumption that the minimum number of factories required to "make the grade" applies, so:
An "other" world has 0 factories
A "minor industrial" has 1
A "major industrial" has 3
As there's no rule to allow upgrading worlds to "hyper industrial", it does mean - under the current beta rules - if you do enough damage to Coventry, Luthien, Terra etc, they can only recover so far.
W.
During play,
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There's nothing related on that on either page 151, did you mean another?
And lets consider an example, Hesperus II has 6 factories at the start, but when it's taken from the LC by the DC one of them is damaged, what effect does this have?
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Apologies, meant p. 351. A typo.
As per the IO rules as written in the beta, Hesperus II would drop to 5 factories. It would still be a "major industrial". It could lose three more before it dropped to "minor industrial".
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Personally I think dropping the industrialization level thing entirely and allowing you to build factories on the planets would solve the whole problem, each factory costs 288 RP and produces 12 a turn.
Now, are the numbers on the World Values Table total you will have spent, IE once I've upgraded a world Major Industrial I will have spent 960 or I have to spend 960 to upgrade it from minor to major?
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As per the rules, you have to go Other to Minor, then Minor to Major, each with its own cost.
It's not clear from the Beta if you can do both steps in one turn; I logged a feedback on that. My personal preference is you should only be able to do one step per turn.
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is there a program out there to make ACS planetary Maps? so that they can look like the ones in the rule book and turning point series?
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Anyone planning to make a Vassel map?