BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => Ground Combat => Topic started by: Goose on 07 June 2019, 20:18:25
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What's the difference, really? :-\
I can guess "one's faster," thanks :P ; But does it fallow the other will have a chance to move a second turn, in a hot LZ?
Is it you need to be in light woods, for cover, more then you need to cross water, at-will?
Or does the benefit of ownership never keep the promise of it's price?
What's it mean to "take a bridge more quickly" if you don't need one, if only for yourself? 8)
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What's the difference, really? :-\
Tracked carriers can drop my vulnerable troops off in (ideally) enough woods cover they can't be seen or engaged that turn or at least enough to take the edge of the enemy's to-hit number.
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Hover APCs are for getting troops to the field and then GTFO. Tracked APCs are for moving troops around an active battlefield.
Wheeled APCs seem to offer the worst of both worlds.
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In fairness, the wheeled ones have the most armor of the three, and two MGs (unlike the tracked one)...
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That's only true of the light versions, though. The heavy wheeled APC and heavy tracked APC have the same armor and armament, the difference being 1 MP.
In any case, for a piddly 2 points of armor per facing I'd much rather give up half the excessive machine gun ammo (obviously these were designed before half-ton MG bins were a thing, but they could really have done with a revision when the rules changed).
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Nope... the Hover APC has a half ton of ammo. Full tons for the other two can only be characterized as intentional nerfing.
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Nope... the Hover APC has a half ton of ammo. Full tons for the other two can only be characterized as intentional nerfing.
Yikes! I would love to have been a fly on the wall at that Pentagon Wars-esque design bureau meeting.
"The committee has decided on the Mk IV "Rolling Bomb" configuration because the board members own a 20% stake in the machine gun ammo plant and only a 10% stake in the armor factory..."
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Heh... that's as good an explanation as any! :D
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Half the point of Infantry and battle armor is area denial . That means the actually have to be in place before the opposition force . The other half to secure a battlefield for salvage or police actions. Hover is normally fast enough to get to the area you want to denial where wheeled and tracked is less vulnerable to motive criticals in a stationary or slow moving Salvage or police action situation. Check out the " has anyone tried " post pg 2 on the Fan non combat vehicle design elsewhere on this site if disposable single pilot ultralight hover monocycle will get you the results you want .
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Hover APCs are for getting troops to the field and then GTFO. Tracked APCs are for moving troops around an active battlefield.
Wheeled APCs seem to offer the worst of both worlds.
wheeled is for when you have lots of urban area (or the functional equivalent) to defend. that bonus MP for pavement really helps.
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Are you talking generic carriers or are we discussing the differences between the abilities of the Blizzard APC and the Goblin or Main Gauche IFVs?
Cause honestly, its a bit of a difference of what I am moving and where its going.
When I am moving my IS Std LRRs as a merc (6 man squads) I love the Blizzard b/c I can get those troops about anywhere and into the fight. If I am moving a engineer platoon, I might prefer the Main Gauche or Goblin to get to the areas I need some sappers as well as hanging around to provide cover fire.
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Goblins are GREAT (more the variants than the standard model), but they're definitely more than APCs...
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Yeah, but the OP said 'infantry carriers' and did not limit the question to just APCs.
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Good point, though I'll mention that most variants of the Goblin can only carry a single squad.
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My 2p worth:
Hover carriers are great for moving units rapidly around the battlefield and are utterly at home in wetlands areas as they basically do not care about the underlying terrain. For getting units into position fast and repositioning they are great. However there utility does fall away in areas of dense forest and rough ground such as boulder fields. They are restricted to narrow avenues of movement as thhey usually cannot leave the roads or tracks, essentially nerfing the main reason you bring them.
Finally they cannot tow heavy equipment (unless its on a hover sled) and do not really want to be caught by the enemy guns as they do not have enough armour to take more than a glancing blow and are seriously at risk of being immobilised if they do.
Tracked carriers are slower but sturdier. They can enter dense woodland and trundle across rubble piles with ease, making them excellent in tagia biomes, dense woodland and rugged terrain. They do not care about minor inconveniances and (from a fluff perspective) if they hit a mine they are far easier to get back in action. They can tow heavy duty equipment with ease and they motive system is a lot sturdier than the hovercrafts. They are slower but tougher andwhilst you dont really want them to see combat they can hang around to provide some fire support if needed.
TL;DR
Hover for speed tracked for towing and endurance
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It depends on how you use them. The hover cannot drop their cargo while in woods, but it could get to a destination before that cargo could be shot. The tracked apc can drop them into the woods, but its going to take longer to reach their destination. How you want to play your infantry is really going to help decide which transport you go with. The hover has a bonus when water is on the map, but how often does that happens depends upon what maps you have available and who decides how to pick what.
From my experience if you plan to drive the infantry deep then you need to do it fast when nobody is going to be able to hit them, or all of the units are going to be engaged. You are likely to be limited by the terrain, which makes the tracked apc far more applicable in most games. The only downside is that you're losing that speed, so plan ahead of time to get them moving or accept that they won't likely reach to deep into the other side's map side.
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Neither Tracked nor Hover. I prefer VTOLs as infantry carriers (even more if you use Jump troops) or, if your budget is short, take a Wheeled one.
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I, too, find VTOLs vastly superior to hover APCs and IFVs. They are oftentimes faster and have even more maneuverability on any terrain. They can also double as CAS, if optional rules are in place. I don't see, what hovers could do better than VTOLs.
Tracked APCs and IFVs have the advantage of being able to move with the main body of forces, are well armored and especially suited to urban, wooded and rough terrain. Their variability in armament means that they are good teamplayers, either with other APCs and IFVs or with other combat vehicles and 'Mechs.
Wheeled APCs (and to some degree IFVs) are simply jacks-of-all-trades and thus should best be relegated to periphery and militia duties. Forces that can afford more specialized motive types, will always be better off with them. It boild down to money and size of the command, obviously. A mercenary command with a company ob 'Mechs and some supporting vees would be hard pressed to buy and maintain all the right tools for every job.
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If I'm using the APCs purely to drop off troops, and the terrain isn't too restricted by woods or other obstacles, then I'll usually choose hover. If there are few paths available between wooded hexes or other terrain which would hinder hovers, then tracked makes more sense. Also, heavy tracked APCs with SRMs are sometimes good for supporting the infantry against other infantry or light vehicles (such as the other guys' APCs), while hover APCs can sometimes be used to chase down and immobilize other light hover vehicles, after delivering their troops to the front. Ideally, I'll use a couple of each, so I've got the flexibility to handle whatever the situation calls for.
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I, too, find VTOLs vastly superior to hover APCs and IFVs. They are oftentimes faster and have even more maneuverability on any terrain. They can also double as CAS, if optional rules are in place. I don't see, what hovers could do better than VTOLs.
Which works fine when you are not facing someone who expects combined arms . . . if they expect combined arms, they should have some AA capabiity. For example, if I am fielding a company of mechs I usually want one, two or best three LB-10X- sure bring that VTOL into my range of my 3 shotguns while I yell 'PULL!' If you avoid that bubble then you are not going to be placing them close enough to matter and I get more chances to degrade your BA as they struggle into range . . . and I mean struggle b/c I like cav forces. Hovers get the speed but also get a easier defensive opportunity, easier for them to get behind masking terrain, no group of weapons get a special -2 TH, and if immobilized they have a higher chance of surviving (IE no crash). Tracked also get a advantage getting into woods that hovers and wheeled cannot travel into for tactical turns. Everything has its place depending on what you want it to do.
Wheeled APCs (and to some degree IFVs) are simply jacks-of-all-trades and thus should best be relegated to periphery and militia duties. Forces that can afford more specialized motive types, will always be better off with them. It boild down to money and size of the command, obviously. A mercenary command with a company ob 'Mechs and some supporting vees would be hard pressed to buy and maintain all the right tools for every job.
The tools are not that different. The shame shop that worked on tracked worked on wheeled vehicles. A pneumatic drill does not care if you are working on a mech, tank, wheeled truck or the local garrison commander's sports car (as a favor of course) when its in the bay. Cranes, block & tackle, drill press, Arc/MIG/TIG welders, lathe, grinders, electrical testing kits, and other basic machine shop equipment does not care what you are working on. In fact, the US Army's heavy tow vehicle is a tracked beast from WWII that is used to pull out everything from M1s loaded ammo trucks (wheeled!) though they do have wheeled wreckers too, afaik they cannot get a M1 unstuck.
The ICE engine that works in a tracked while work in a wheeled, hover, VTOL or even IndiMech. Same for a any type of Fusion.
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One thing hovers can do better than VTOLs: take more than four individual hits to one certain location...
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The idea is not to get hit with a VTOL, that's true. However, depending on the era and optional rules (not a lot on my part), that can be arranged. Combined arms doesn't mean, your VTOLs should be out in the open. Quite the opposite, actually. Usually, VTOLs will be able to generate very high TMMs. If you let your opponent shoot at another target that is easier to hit, but more resilient, which would he choose,
I must admit, it changes a bit, once you start moving around BA. They might actually be better off with APCs than with VTOLs as those generate a "too many eggs in one basket" situation too easily. On the other hand, fast-moving BA across the battlefield could be done in a light OmniMech like the Owens (IS) or Dasher (Clan).
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Moved BA in everything- by choice or by force. And when most folks talk VTOLs its usually the slower stuff like Karnovs, which do not have the MPs to really NoE without rolling for slips. If it goes into a hillside trying to stay behind masking terrain to avoid LBX, it & BA are just as dead as being hit by the LBX.
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it depends on the map. overall, i think i prefer hovercraft (i have a pair of Maxim). that 8/12 speed solves a lot of problems around the time it takes to embark/disembark.
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it depends on the map. overall,
This.
If my infantry are deployed in hills/forest area. Tracked.
If my infantry are at a seaport. Hover.
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Yeah, depends largely on terrain. Though more realistically it also depends on the type of force you are using. If you want to dance around your enemy with a speedy unit hove or VTOL are best. Anything that can get those infantry behind the enemy and cause them to worry is a job well done. Now if you are driving an assault force at the enemy it might be better to use tracked or one of the tanks that can carry infantry to add extra firepower to a bottleneck for your mechs to exploit.
Usually I go with a mix as I tend to build a Cav/Hvy Cav force. Heavy units to push a line while the medium and lights units harass parts of the line to distract the flanks so I can run infantry behind them.
Nothing beats getting behind the enemy with a company of SRM Inferno infantry or regular SRM troops.