BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => Aerospace Combat => Topic started by: verybad on 30 January 2011, 16:27:36
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Just thinking, we don't really have any rules for Dropship's using bombs on gound targets, or for high altitude bombing (also known as indiscriminate
city bombing).
Small, fast Aerospace Dropships would make ideal bomers for strategic bombing (including nukes), their flexibility and range would allow you to jump in a group of these to a Pirate Point, jump out with the initial jumpship. Hit the target(s) with the Squadron of Bombers, accelerate towards the pickup point (using a different jumpship), and jump out (at a different pickup point than the dropoff point).
It's hard to intercept, it's a more strategic rather than tactical move, and fit's in with the whole shift towards PW Dropships rather than Warships.
Other interesting things might be to drop off stealth microsattelites in orbit, (They're boobytrapped btw) Come back in a set time, laseradio the password and download intelligence on the planet, orbital movements (eg a few sattlelites might track dropshiips in and out movements, giving you some information on troop movements, you can tell if a dropship is loaded by it's engine output/performance.
Others might be intersted in crops, yes I said crops. knowing how planets are doing in terms of food will give you information on who to hit and where to disrupt, or how region economies are going. Planetary fuel information (eg blow the hell out of some an oil drilling platforms may completely disrupt almost all civilian and most military vehicles, as well as ruining ecologies) (Yeah it's not nice, but this is Interstellar Grand Warfare we're talking about).
The intelligence bureaus in every nation must be absolutely enormous, and it's likely there are some specific or modified vehicles in many shapes and forms that they use.
We rarely get in depth on the intelligence that drives warfare, but I think it would be an interesting addition. We've got enough tactical units (fighters, transport dropships, etc) There needs to be more background. Why are we invading this planet other than it's got a mech factory?
Stealth for spacecraft that makes them harder to detect (eg higher fuel using that reduces the overall energy output), more strategic rather than tactical uses for spacecraft...
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IIRC in the original TRO '57, there was just such a bit of fluff involving the Avenger's 126 ton cargo bay. But I don't have my copy handy.
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A lot of that will probably be in intersteller ops, but STrategic ops does have a quirk to let you include bombays, though I'm not certain if it's applicable to drop ships.
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I REALLY, REALLY, want Interstellar Ops, and I want them to use quirks as optionals in TROs. Quirks are a lot of fun, they should be used by the people that officialized them. If they're Optional, then it's not ruining it for people that don't like them. They might take up a line in the stat list, and a bit in the fluff. IMO they're win/win.
It's been a long time since I actually played the game on the board. By and large I enjoy reading the fluff and using it for my own imagination (gotta have rules to make things work.) I just don't really click with the tactical view of the game however. I like the grand scale of things, and I just don't like the way Nations with potentially trillions of citizens and hundreds of worlds are portrayed as being won or lost by a few fools in mechs.
The WoB, except for some of it's cult like political decisions, was the first in the game to use warfare in a somewhat reasonable manner. They moved fast, they used their intelligence agency like a weapon, and they hit their targets at their weak points. They were fools in some ways yeah (the whole tech cult thing is kind of silly, if fun) but they understood how to do things right.
"Heavy Bomber" Dropships are essentially PW Dropships optimized for antiground/Space Station targets. You need fast ships with good interceptor (antifighter) defences. Not necessarilly more efficient than fighters ton for ton, but survivable, obviously much longer ranged, and flexible (capable of dropping bombs, spy sattelites, potentially special services infantry in orbit to ground pods, and more. We've got enough tactical ships to fill our needs (doesn't mean I don't want more, you can never have too many ships), but the needs of space empires aren't always tactical.
I could see the Avenger being suitable for that kind of role. It's fast, and survivable for it's time. Might need an update/next generation now.
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Aren't there rules for shoving stuff out the bay doors in SO? Isn't that all bombing with unguided munitions is?
Correction, I guess there isn't. You could approximate something using the cargo transfer rules maybe, but as written right now there is no analogue.
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Just thinking, we don't really have any rules for Dropship's using bombs on gound targets, or for high altitude bombing (also known as indiscriminate city bombing).
Small, fast Aerospace Dropships would make ideal bomers for strategic bombing (including nukes), their flexibility and range would allow you to jump in a group of these to a Pirate Point, jump out with the initial jumpship. Hit the target(s) with the Squadron of Bombers, accelerate towards the pickup point (using a different jumpship), and jump out (at a different pickup point than the dropoff point).
It's hard to intercept, it's a more strategic rather than tactical move, and fit's in with the whole shift towards PW Dropships rather than Warships.
While interesting, I don't think that it needs to be anywhere near the main setting. It devalues ground warfare too much and that's the bread and butter of the game.
Other interesting things might be to drop off stealth microsattelites in orbit, (They're boobytrapped btw) Come back in a set time, laseradio the password and download intelligence on the planet, orbital movements (eg a few sattlelites might track dropshiips in and out movements, giving you some information on troop movements, you can tell if a dropship is loaded by it's engine output/performance.
This is difficult to arrange because of the sheer power of the radars available but something I'd like to see.
Stealth for spacecraft that makes them harder to detect (eg higher fuel using that reduces the overall energy output), more strategic rather than tactical uses for spacecraft...
The design of the engines themselves argues heavily against that. If they can spot the fighters successfully, low-powered DropShips are simply not an issue. And from what I recall, BattleTech may already be lowballing the detection range but Cray can tell you more there.
However, there's a way to do that at long ranges - jump in far enough out and coast. Strategic surprise is quite possible.
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Personally I would use small craft for this role, gives them a bit more of a role as well.
Though Strat ops dose have the internal bomb bay quirk.
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Regarding Small Craft, I think that for long missions, small craft wouldn't be a good place to work.
Dropship's are more like submissions. I wouldn't want to live on a small craft for say more than a few days. After a few days working on a small craft, I think the crew would lstart losing capability.
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Regarding Small Craft, I think that for long missions, small craft wouldn't be a good place to work.
Dropship's are more like submissions. I wouldn't want to live on a small craft for say more than a few days. After a few days working on a small craft, I think the crew would lstart losing capability.
However small crafts have transit engines and better life supports for days long missions, which you couldn't say same for the ASF.
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Practically speaking, stealth in space doesn't work. See here (http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/spacewardetect.php) for the hard science explanation of why.
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Practically speaking, stealth in space doesn't work. See here (http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/spacewardetect.php) for the hard science explanation of why.
Project Rho is not very applicable to a discussion about BattleTech aerospace stealth for a number of reasons.
First, Project Rho's arguments about space stealth are aimed at a different audience, the folks who equate "stealth" with "invisibility." Real stealth never equates to invisibility; it's simply a masked signature only detectable at shorter ranges than an un-stealthed vehicle. BT correctly addresses this in its stealth armor by applying to-hit modifiers at longer ranges, not saying "stealth armor units are invisible."
Second, BT sensors are generally much less capable than the realistic sensors that Project Rho discusses. Even so, BT concedes that stealth bonuses disappear when a spacecraft expends thrust points, and a stealth armored spacecraft is detectable (per the rules in SO) at the same ranges as any other spacecraft.
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Up through 3025, Interplanetary craft were generally too valuable, and too scarce, to use in direct combat. Remember, total Dropship production in the Inner Sphere could be measured in scores (for combat dropships) and maybe a hundred or so for Civilian models. That doesn't even keep up with attrition due to wear and tear. When Battletech started, the Houses were clearly pretty far into "die-back" mode. It was only the rise of House Davion and the Grey Death core that started the Renaissance. I don't think anyone would seriously consider small craft as bombers until 3055 or later, and by that time space defenses were strong enough to counter them.
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The way I understand it, they were beginning to pry themselves back up, but it's eclipsed by both the magnitude of the pit they were in and the effects of the Helm Core. By 3025, we've already got genuinely new development going on (TSM, NAIS, Hatchetman, the Merlin to some extent), renewed economic investment (such as the fusion engine plant to support the Patton and Rommel), and the "war" has settled down with minor gains and losses overall. Without those conditions, the Helm Memory Core wouldn't have accomplished anything - it was dropped into a situation that was ready to start rebuilding anyway and allowed resources to be used to go further faster.
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The way I understand it, they were beginning to pry themselves back up, but it's eclipsed by both the magnitude of the pit they were in and the effects of the Helm Core. By 3025, we've already got genuinely new development going on (TSM, NAIS, Hatchetman, the Merlin to some extent), renewed economic investment (such as the fusion engine plant to support the Patton and Rommel), and the "war" has settled down with minor gains and losses overall. Without those conditions, the Helm Memory Core wouldn't have accomplished anything - it was dropped into a situation that was ready to start rebuilding anyway and allowed resources to be used to go further faster.
This is 100% true. The opening narration in the Sword and the Dagger even says the Inner Sphere is beginning to turn the corner.