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BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Articles => Topic started by: Kotetsu on 19 April 2013, 16:38:57

Title: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kotetsu on 19 April 2013, 16:38:57
’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker

The Berserker. A Norseman with infamous battle rage, wearing a bearskin (literally, bear sark). Evolved into meaning anyone who is a little crazy and violent. A frightening, 100-ton monster that stalks the battlefields and arenas.

Seriously, wouldn’t you be frightened by a fire-breathing machine stalking you with a massive axe?

Designed as a state-of-the-art machine, the Berserker took years to perfect. Defiance of Hesperus II made it one of the most tested machines in history. They also spared little expense. And it is one of, if not, the best design in BattleTech history.

Then again, I tend to like things that get up close and get their foe’s blood on their hands.

I do have two quibbles with the design. First, no variant has maximum armor, or even Atlas-like armor. The other quibble I’ll get to later.

Defiance spent massive amounts during research and development. So much that there was a chance the design wouldn’t make it off the drawing boards. Finally, in 3056, the BRZ-A3 Berserker strode forth. From the beginning it was a hit with the Lyran establishment for being a fast 100-tonner. The FRR also bought some, and the Solaris arenas loved the design. Mercenaries also have access to the design, but being able to afford one seems outside the normal mercenary paradigm.

This machine is built around an endo-steel skeleton and is powered by a 400-rated LTV extralight engine, the most expensive engine outside of large and superlight models. This powerplant gives the Berserker unrivalled speed at its weight. The use of MASC only adds to this. Armor is a whopping eighteen and a half tons of standard plate (though half a ton under the Atlas). This is laid out in a 9, 45/15, 31/10, 34, 38 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs). Sixteen double heat sinks struggle with the heat load. Weapons start with the seven-ton hatchet in the machine’s right hand. Hitting with the force of a Class-20 autocannon, this thing alone can tear light ’Mech’s apart. For giving the Berserker the chance to get close enough to use that cleaver, the design mounts an extended particle cannon in the left arm, and twin large pulse lasers, one in each side torso. A head-mounted flamer adds to the intimidation factor. Finally, there is a Guardian ECM suite and a centerline anti-missile system mounted for added defense. This brings me to the last quibble. While I understand that the internal structure can take it, the placement of the ammo for the AMS is a bit… nerve-wracking. At least in the prior rules set the thing would be empty when someone hit it… unless they got that darn Golden BB.

The BRZ-A3 held the distinction of being the most expensive Inner Sphere BattleMech for two years. At that time, the Sunder arrived, and its B configuration surpassed the -A3, mostly on the backs of the twin C3 Masters the B carries. The Clan Executioner also surpasses it, for while its engine is cheaper, being an OmniMech is expensive it its own right. According to my notes, the only things since to surpass any of them either have a superlight (XXL) engine, or have some form of C3 (Turkina Z, from the Society’s Nova CEWS).

Around the same time as the BRZ-A3 hit the market, so did the BRZ-B3 model. This design is 60,000 C-Bills cheaper, which puts it just under the -A3 on the price list. This model swaps the large pulse lasers for a pair of 10-pack LRMs. All four tons of ammunition are stored in the right arm under the PPC. While able to run cool, this is perhaps the worst of the bunch. After all, it’s hard to close-in if one of your main weapon systems has minimums.

(Just ask the one I took into that first Headhunter game. I’d have killed the Mauler if I had taken the BRZ-A3.)

After the FedCom Civil War, as the Lyran military machine needed to rebuild, Defiance unveiled a new Berserker variant. The BRZ-C3 is the best of the bunch. First the engine was replaced with a light model. Second, the MASC system was removed and TSM was installed, now allowing the hatchet to hit with enough force to cut a Timber Wolf in half. In place of the large pulse lasers, a trio of extended-model medium lasers are in each torso. Finally, one heat sink was removed to install a C3 Slave, so that your friends can shoot what they want as you close in to deliver your axe-blow.

Sometime after the Jihad, Defiance revisited the Berserker and successfully intergrated a lot of more “modern” improvements. It differs from the -C3 by dropping the Slave, replacing the trio of mediums with paired Clantech variants, swaps the ECM suite for an Angel model, adds jump jets (finally), utilizes endo-composite structure, and swaps the PPC for a Bombast laser to allow for another way to moderate one’s heat (though the gunnery problems with that weapon leave something to be desired). Finally, one point of armor from each leg is removed, as the design uses the new Impact Resistant Armor. While this helps when in melee combat, it is less effective against things like Armor Piercing shells, and breech checks underwater. Sixteen double heat sinks deal with the heat load as best they can.

Using one is simple. Point yourself at your chosen foe and wade forward, spitting fire and PPC blasts until you get there, and then act like a Viking. Hack, hack, hack. Giggling like a maniacal schoolgirl helps with the psychological warfare, too. Use the MASC only when necessary. Or with the BRZ-C3, keep your heat up (not hard) and go all Hulk on some poor fool. Since getting there is half the battle, do use terrain as much as possible. That is, go behind the tree-lined ridge, and burst forth when needed. Since the BRZ-C3 can tie into a network, bring some guys with long-range guns. Always fun to rain Gauss fire down on your foes while the big guy with the axe gets attention. Even better if it draws some fire from him.

Fighting one is not so simple. He is a 100-tonner, after-all. The best strategy is fire at him until he stops moving. But if he has friends this can get dicey. The second best is to put road-blocks in his path. Make him go in ways that spend his movement suboptimally. Whether this is minefields, or expendable units. Or just fast ones that know how to get in with high numbers, and get out with even higher ones. There is also the like-with-like strategy. As in, bring a number of melee machines to go toe-to-toe with him. This can range from a Berserker of your own, to No-Dachis or Ti Ts’angs (if you’re slightly more exotic, Cudgels also work). When he does get in close, do not be afraid to put multiple machines in contact with him. While he can swing once, you can kick or swing multiple times. Against the -C3, making at least one of those huggers have ECM is also a good idea. Actually, that might be the best idea, as everyone else in his network will be at range 1 otherwise.

As said before, I do not know the state of the production lines. I can only hope that this design lumbers forth into the Dark Ages and causes much pain to any invaders that try and stop them. I mean, look, the design’s name practically screams Dark Ages to many…
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 19 April 2013, 17:06:31
Berserkers -A3 and -C3 are pretty nasty 'Mechs, -C3 is much better. In right hands and the right terrain it may be utterly devastating.

With -B3 model, Defiance designers missed the point completely. This 'Mech has some kind of existentional crisis - it wields multi-ton hatchet and at the same time is has firepower of a medium fire-support 'Mech.



It's interesting that Lyrans have sold those 'Mechs to Regulans.

I guess that both sides are okay with the deal: Lyrans are making money and providing Regulans with BattleMechs that will be used for attacks against the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth (and thus weaken this enemy of Lyrans), while Regulans are getting 'Mechs suitable for their "smash-the-mouth" attitude and filling out their lack of 'Mechs of heaviest category.

As for Blakists, they used their resources for BNC-8S Banshee which fills similar niche.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 19 April 2013, 17:17:04
C3 is the only one worth looking at. For a canon design it's actually quite a beast given the era. And kudos for the general idea, though it can still be refined to another level  }:)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: George_Labour on 19 April 2013, 17:25:58
Considering how expensive this thing is it sure seems to turn up in a lot of places. The Kungsarme seem to have entire lances of them, as does a merc unit that fought against the Jade Falcons early on in the Jihad.

Now it's also ending up in the Regulan fiefs and I imagine the Marians have a handful simply because a fire breathing axe murderer mech seems like a toy that space romans would want to use on a 'morale raising tour' in occupied areas.

Though I have different feelings between the A3 and C3 variants as I mostly play in QS. in that ruleset the original often comes up better just because the MASC becomes part of its permanent movement which gives it a bit of extra move at all times, but also pushes it Defense modifier up to a +2. While it loses one point of structure, that really means very little considering how damage tends to accumulate in QS. Though it is three points cheaper.

In comparison the C3 starts at a +1 defense with slower movement, and has to overheat to get the same movement and DM. It then gets an extra point of damage in melee (bringing it to a scary 6 points) but loses in accuracy which I often find more important. But that combination of C3 with inherent ECM can be handy, and the intimidation value of that potential physical attack damage seems to throw some people off. Though I'm not sure the all of that and the extra point of structure is worth the extra points as I could use those meager points to add some battle armor or light vehicle to the same force.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 19 April 2013, 17:28:16
Berserker has one of the coolest illustrations:
"Intimidating Paint Job" (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Intimidating_Paint_Job_CCG_Mercenaries.jpg)
 >:D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 19 April 2013, 18:13:37
Ahh.. the 100 ton firebreathing hatchet wielding goodness that is the berserker..
Wonders why they never opted to create a version sporting TSM instead of MASC...
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 19 April 2013, 18:21:19
Ahh.. the 100 ton firebreathing hatchet wielding goodness that is the berserker..
Wonders why they never opted to create a version sporting TSM instead of MASC...

C3
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: wellspring on 19 April 2013, 21:30:57
Ahh.. the 100 ton firebreathing hatchet wielding goodness that is the berserker..
Wonders why they never opted to create a version sporting TSM instead of MASC...

Or, perhaps, TSM + a supercharger.  >:D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 19 April 2013, 21:42:02
Berserker has one of the coolest illustrations:
"Intimidating Paint Job" (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Intimidating_Paint_Job_CCG_Mercenaries.jpg)
 >:D

I wish the axe on the miniature looked that good. That's an AXE. The mini has... eh, I don't even know what you'd call that, but it's not nearly as intimidating.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 19 April 2013, 21:47:31
I prefer a Hatched that looks like It'll actually pierce Mech armor, instead of just looking like a large woodcutter.

I know this wouldn't be a real Berzerker anymore, but how would this design fare with a Lance?
Edit: Sorry, I mean a Battlemech Lance (weapon), not the 4 mech organization. As far as I can tell, that weapon has certain desirable quirks.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Wrangler on 19 April 2013, 22:55:01
As said before, I do not know the state of the production lines. I can only hope that this design lumbers forth into the Dark Ages and causes much pain to any invaders that try and stop them. I mean, look, the design’s name practically screams Dark Ages to many…

Funny thing about that,  MWDA Novel, To Ride the Chimera, 1st Regulan Hussars had Berserker fighting on Atreus against Thaddeus Marik and his united "future" League Forces.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Nikas_Zekeval on 19 April 2013, 23:57:43
I don't know, I've think that the Berserker feels underarmed for it's size.  The A3 has a single ten point weapon that reaches beyond ten hexes.  It can't generate a knockdown hit without overheating, and to get that at a run will slow you down the next turn.  Not a good idea for a mech built around the whole idea of run into someone's face and smash him to bits.  The B3 can reliably generate knockdown power at range, and is a near alpha baby (+1 in the unlikely case of running, using the main guns, the AMS and the flamer), but like the Axeman the close in hatchet and the LRMs are a poor match.

The C3 can generate a fair amount of firepower at 12 hexes.  The problem is the need to heat up the TSM.  If you do that early you are working with a plus one to hit, and have a max of 5 ERMLs (Plus the flamer and a run) to keep heat neutral.  Getting to nine is hard, most likely shutting down a DHS for a turn to get the math to work.  The trick is dealing with the variable nature of the AMS activation to your attempts to balance the heat.

I can see it being popular in Solaris.  Most arenas are small enough that you can't dance around one.  But playing as a Merc I'd sell it off and use the funds for a more long range focused assault mech.  An Awesome AWS-9M, Banshee BNC-5S, Nightstar NSR-9FC or Albatross for example could hit with potential PSR level firepower all the way in, while keeping the same maneuverability.  And leave enough cash left over for a medium or even heavy mech in the bargain.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 20 April 2013, 00:52:02
I've never been impressed by them. Giving up 7 tons and Criticals for the increased hatchet damage (just 10 points over a single punch) results in an underarmed costly assault mech. Hatchets, or any of the other physical weapons just don't inspire me  as much as when I was a younger fan.  I now just see a waste of tonnage in a weapon with no range, that suffers the additional penalty of having to survive the firing phase and a knockdown check to boot to be of use.  I'd rather just drop that hatchet, add jump, more close in weapons, and kick or double punch. It would be even better if it could jump 5.

That said, the  C3 is at least a worthy threat. The first has a popgun at range and is otherwise a side torso casualty, perhaps best used as a fire magnet to draw attention from your real threats while generating a high DMM combined with initally tough armor.  The second one is just confused and hates itself.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 20 April 2013, 01:43:02
I wish the axe on the miniature looked that good. That's an AXE. The mini has... eh, I don't even know what you'd call that, but it's not nearly as intimidating.

I have always hated Hatchets and Swords looking like monstrous copycats of human-size weapons. For example the Buccaneer's Hatchet or the No-Dachi's Sword. Or that stupid Naginata the new Shiro is equipped is pretty stupid. I think that you simply can't scale human size weapon fifteen-times up for a 'Mech use and keep the exact shape of it.

So while I agree that Berserker's mini Hatchet is not exceptional, I really like Berserker's Hatchet from the cover of TRO:3055U and Plogg's illustration inside. You know, the Hatchet with the side handle which allows both for a swing and at the same time it gives a good reach.
Or BL-9-KNT Black Knight's sword-like Hatchet is good.
Both those weapons have some fell of 80's in them. Ancient weapons redesigned in 80's fashion to be efficient on modern machines ...
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Deadborder on 20 April 2013, 06:41:59
Objectives: LA has the Berserker still in production at DefHes; maybe updating it is seen as unnecessary or a low priority
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 20 April 2013, 07:20:55
Well, it's good at what it does, and whether that is something useful is a question to be asked.
Going down a speed level, but adding a supercharger and armoring just about everything in the design might actually cheapen the mech.^^
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 20 April 2013, 09:45:01
Going down a speed level, but adding a supercharger and armoring just about everything in the design might actually cheapen the mech.^^

That'd only work if you went with a cheaper engine type as well. Keep the XL and the supercharger will just eat your cost savings with a little left over for dessert.

But I suppose it's possible, though I really don't know if it's worth it. The best a base 3/5 can eke out of having both TSM currently active and using a supercharger is 7 MP -- Walk 3, x 2 for supercharger, +2 for TSM, -1 for heat 9. (That's how current TacOps errata says it works -- the TSM adds to the supercharger, not the other way around.) That's actually 1 MP slower than what any of the canon models can achieve, and it's only doable by both keeping the heat exactly right and risking supercharger failure each turn you need it.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 20 April 2013, 10:31:14
I'm not really seeing the cost issue. It's Lyran after all. The money saved on all those Fafnirs with their SFEs should easily make up for the increased cost of a couple Berserkers. Heck, just put a supercharger on a 400 LFE or XL while it retains the TSM. A mech like that is allowed to cost 38 million+.



This statement was approved by the LAAF/LCAF office of procurement and its head THOMAS HOGARTH!!!!!!1
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Wrangler on 20 April 2013, 11:23:34
I love how flashy and brutal the Berserker is, but what bothers me is that i've been told by many folks.  Kicking specially the TSM enhanced version just more damaging than the hatchet. 
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 20 April 2013, 11:27:05
In how far is that more damaging than potentially 40 points to the head, torso, arms or legs instead of 40 points just to the legs?
Not to mention the loss in style.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Orin J. on 20 April 2013, 11:28:35
the Berserker, a 100-ton monster rushing you at a pace more expected of 'mechs half it's weight, pouring laser fire into it's chosen victim and lapping at it with a tongue of molten fusion fire, all while trying to drive a 7-tonne sharpened slab of metal into your cockpit and crush you. there's something to be said of a 'mech apparently made to give mechwarriors the feeling they're the victim in a horror film, and unfortunately that sort of talk is against the rules of the board as per rule 2.  >:D

So while I agree that Berserker's mini Hatchet is not exceptional, I really like Berserker's Hatchet from the cover of TRO:3055U and Plogg's illustration inside.

fortunately, the look of the hatchet looks to be a fairly simple mod....lop the hatchet off and cut the handle out so the front of the base will fit as the bottom edge of the "handle" and file down the leftovers for the top half and it ought to work fine.....if only i have the time to try it....
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 20 April 2013, 12:02:09
Do claws hit on the punch table?  Because if they do, a TSM-equipped Clawzerker would be even more of a monster.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 20 April 2013, 12:12:28
Yeah. Two hits with 20 damage respectively.
Though you have a to hit penalty of +1 and lack the ability to take out a whole location with a single strike on a heavy mech as with the hatchet.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 20 April 2013, 12:47:48
Would a Lance be used like a Hatchet or a Claw?
I really need to grab the respective book, I suppose.
The Berzerker is also one of the cases where the engine really gets to it's limits;
It's a mech that could free up weight by getting lighter.^^ Imagine you can make a race car faster just by downsizing it's engine.^^
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 20 April 2013, 13:44:51
I love how flashy and brutal the Berserker is, but what bothers me is that i've been told by many folks.  Kicking specially the TSM enhanced version just more damaging than the hatchet.

Yeah, kicks are overrated under the rules. That's pretty much the gist of it. There's not even any sort of in-universe narrative justification for why apparently every single 'Mech design in existence apparently develops a spontaneous case of "pulse legs" as soon as it decides to kick.

But that's the way it goes, and given the usual amounts of inertia behind BT's rules I don't expect the respective to-hit modifiers of physical attacks (which are really the main thing wrong with kicks as written) to change anytime soon. I use them, too...

...doesn't mean I don't have a small "Yeah! Take that, kicks!" moment anytime I actually manage to deliver a telling blow with some dedicated physical weapon or other, though. ;)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Nikas_Zekeval on 20 April 2013, 19:06:02
I'm not really seeing the cost issue. It's Lyran after all. The money saved on all those Fafnirs with their SFEs should easily make up for the increased cost of a couple Berserkers. Heck, just put a supercharger on a 400 LFE or XL while it retains the TSM. A mech like that is allowed to cost 38 million+.



This statement was approved by the LAAF/LCAF office of procurement and its head THOMAS HOGARTH!!!!!!1

I look at it more from a Merc perspective.  The Berserker is a very specialized, and very expensive mech.  If you can't get next to a target it is arguably matched by medium mechs in firepower.  I have to look at repair bills and replacement costs.  Also it is a gimmick mech.  When it steps onto the field both sides KNOW how it is going to fight.  Try to close with an important enough target and club it to death, repeat until victory or incapacitation.

The Berserker is going to get badly shot up due to it's mission profile.  I'd rather sell it and buy two really good (if smaller) mechs which are more flexible, but more flexible and less likely to be shot to hell after every fight.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 20 April 2013, 19:08:39
I recommend making it even more expensive with stealth armor and Angel ECM, trusting that the enemy will want to shoot at it, and watching him just not hit.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 21 April 2013, 00:57:27
I've never been impressed by them. Giving up 7 tons and Criticals for the increased hatchet damage (just 10 points over a single punch) results in an underarmed costly assault mech. Hatchets, or any of the other physical weapons just don't inspire me  as much as when I was a younger fan.  I now just see a waste of tonnage in a weapon with no range, that suffers the additional penalty of having to survive the firing phase and a knockdown check to boot to be of use.  I'd rather just drop that hatchet, add jump, more close in weapons, and kick or double punch. It would be even better if it could jump 5.

While yes, the hatchet does take a lot of tonnage (and crits) that could be better used for other weapons (or equipment), its the fear factor it inspires..  a 20 point hatchet (which imo SHOULD be allowed to get used with a punch, but by my reading of the rules its either a hatchet OR punch).  But add in TSM that is now 40 points!

That said, the  C3 is at least a worthy threat. The first has a popgun at range and is otherwise a side torso casualty, perhaps best used as a fire magnet to draw attention from your real threats while generating a high DMM combined with initally tough armor.  The second one is just confused and hates itself.

IMO the C3 is more to aid its comrades in shooting the target the berserker is running in the face of (LRMs while it closes, gauss rifles, AC-10s/RAC5s, ER larges/PPCs/ER ppcs when in close).

Quote
I recommend making it even more expensive with stealth armor and Angel ECM, trusting that the enemy will want to shoot at it, and watching him just not hit.

OUCH...  But since you need 2 slots free in each location (bar the CT and head) and with the hatchet you only get one in that arm, you could not do it.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 21 April 2013, 02:39:31
While yes, the hatchet does take a lot of tonnage (and crits) that could be better used for other weapons (or equipment), its the fear factor it inspires.. 

It's the similar problem as with the old HBK-4G Hunchback in 3025 games - BRZ-C3 simply attracts disproportionate amount of enemy fire because of those 40-points Hatchet swings.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Scrollreader on 21 April 2013, 02:46:52
Your 'problem' is my 'at least they are shooting a heavily armored assault Mech'.  Also, IMO, all melee Mechs benefit from using Tac Ops.  A Berserker with the ability to walk and axe someone after the movement phase gives a whole new meaning to 'bubble of doom'
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 21 April 2013, 03:29:25
It's the similar problem as with the old HBK-4G Hunchback in 3025 games - BRZ-C3 simply attracts disproportionate amount of enemy fire because of those 40-points Hatchet swings.

I fear 40 pointkicks more. Minimum of two piloting checks at +1, plus any leg criticals..if there still is a leg left.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 21 April 2013, 03:32:09
I remember one game where thunder munitions had put a minefield between my Berzerker A3 and its target....The target
actually moved around to put the mine field between me and him. Tactically, a smart , since that also put 7 hexes between
us(in a Straight line!) What sort of maniac would try to close with that, right? This sort of maniac, actually. After all, mine fields
are actually fairly hard to get to pop (needing a roll of 9+ on 2d6). So...I kicked on the MASC, and declared a charge. My opponent's
second mistake was that he landed on the spot of terrain with a sheer drop on the other side, and I did the math that a Charge plus
the fall would do the most damage I could inflict.

Imagine the poor enemy pilot: He sees the Berserker barreling straight towards him at top speed, mines blowing up
as it passes past them(I actually had 2 hexes go off in the run, but they were 10 point fields) to charge him for 70 damage,
plus a 3 level fall....

I fear 40 pointkicks more. Minimum of two piloting checks at +1, plus any leg criticals..if there still is a leg left.

Only if you are using those advanced rules, otherwise it is just one pilot check at +1, plus leg criticals if there is still a leg
left. Frankly, the trick is you have to know when to kick, and when to hatchet. Sometimes that 40 points on the full body chart
is better then 40 points to one leg.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 21 April 2013, 03:48:03
Only if you are using those advanced rules, otherwise it is just one pilot check at +1, plus leg criticals if there is still a leg
left.

It's two checks even under the standard rules, actually. One for the kick, one for taking 20+ damage in a single phase, and it's the latter where the +1 modifier to both comes from.

If you do go with the TacOps PSR rule for damage, then getting kicked for 40 is actually two rolls at +2, though then the weight class of the target will also figure into it.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 21 April 2013, 04:38:26
Your 'problem' is my 'at least they are shooting a heavily armored assault Mech'.
It's pretty expensive (both BV-wise and C-Bills-wise) decoy, then.

Also, IMO, all melee Mechs benefit from using Tac Ops.  A Berserker with the ability to walk and axe someone after the movement phase gives a whole new meaning to 'bubble of doom'
Tactical Operations rules are optional, so you should announce your intent to use them to your opponents before the game starts - which means that you "disclose" your tactics. Moreover, they may say (and rightly so) that you are trying to secure additional advantage just for yourself because no one else brought Melee 'Mech to the battle.

Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 21 April 2013, 04:44:53
I fear 40 pointkicks more. Minimum of two piloting checks at +1, plus any leg criticals..if there still is a leg left.

Kicking may be hazardous. Miss your kick and consequently your PSR roll - and and you will be lying at your enemy's feet.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 21 April 2013, 04:46:29
Tactical Operations rules are optional, so you should announce your intent to use them to your opponents before the game starts - which means that you "disclose" your tactics. Moreover, they may say (and rightly so) that you are trying to secure additional advantage just for yourself because no one else brought Melee 'Mech to the battle.

Yeah, my usual rule is: If you want to use something from TacOps, then I can use something from there, as well. This is why, in my
group, Ghost Targets really does not slow our games down much..seems everyone loves that one.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 21 April 2013, 05:18:14
Kicking may be hazardous. Miss your kick and consequently your PSR roll - and and you will be lying at your enemy's feet.

That's generally a chance I'll take unless my to-hit roll really sucks (in which case there'd be little point in trying a physical attack at all in the first place). Kicks are magically accurate, meaning I have a good chance of simply not missing, and even if I do the required PSR is usually easy. Plus they usually cost me nothing. I can't punch with an arm from which I've already fired weapons that turn, so there's a tradeoff there, and dedicated physical weapons have to be designed into my 'Mech in advance at the expense of tonnage and space...but a kick at an enemy in front of me I can basically always make unless (a) I've lost a hip actuator already, in which case I've got bigger things to worry about anyway or (b) I'm sitting in something called Crusader.

Free accurate bonus damage of opportunity plus a shot at forcing a PSR in exchange for a fairly miniscule chance of falling myself? Sure, I'll take that. (And that is, basically, the problem with kicks in a nutshell.)

Now with a designated physical combat design like the Berserker, sure, I'll make a point of not simply always falling back on kicks if I can help it. I paid for that weapon, so I'll do my level best to get some mileage out of it, too. But in general combat I see and use at least two to three times as many kicks as I do all other physical attacks taken together, and there's good reason for that as well.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 21 April 2013, 05:34:27
Kicking may be hazardous. Miss your kick and consequently your PSR roll - and and you will be lying at your enemy's feet.

If you miss. kicking is a lot more accurate, and who takes physical oriented design without a good piloting roll?

The downside to kicks--legs, especially on other assaults usually have lots of armor and internals, while the 40 point hatchet can hit a nice crunchy side torso.  but anything medium and light--and soem heavies..are going to be on the ground ready to finish.

Now if kicks didnt have the -2 modifier, hatchets would be a lot more attractive. But they do, so there we are.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 21 April 2013, 05:36:05
Yeah, my usual rule is: If you want to use something from TacOps, then I can use something from there, as well. This is why, in my
group, Ghost Targets really does not slow our games down much..seems everyone loves that one.

That's correct and it should be this way.

However, I took common 'Mechs to the game and I don't ask for additional rules (I am okay with the tournament legal ruleset as is)- it's him who seeks additional rules that will benefit only him.

That's generally a chance I'll take unless my to-hit roll really sucks (in which case there'd be little point in trying a physical attack at all in the first place). Kicks are magically accurate, meaning I have a good chance of simply not missing, and even if I do the required PSR is usually easy. Plus they usually cost me nothing. I can't punch with an arm from which I've already fired weapons that turn, so there's a tradeoff there, and dedicated physical weapons have to be designed into my 'Mech in advance at the expense of tonnage and space...but a kick at an enemy in front of me I can basically always make unless (a) I've lost a hip actuator already, in which case I've got bigger things to worry about anyway or (b) I'm sitting in something called Crusader.

Free accurate bonus damage of opportunity plus a shot at forcing a PSR in exchange for a fairly miniscule chance of falling myself? Sure, I'll take that. (And that is, basically, the problem with kicks in a nutshell.)

Well, I have thought we have been discussing the Berserker.

My personal preference is usually to "play it safe". If I fall down, it may be difficult to get up, and even if I will get up, I will spend my precious MPs doing so.

Now with a designated physical combat design like the Berserker, sure, I'll make a point of not simply always falling back on kicks if I can help it. I paid for that weapon, so I'll do my level best to get some mileage out of it, too. But in general combat I see and use at least two to three times as many kicks as I do all other physical attacks taken together, and there's good reason for that as well.

If I have a 'Mech with a Melee weapon - be it Hatchet, Sword or even Club - I almost never kick.

My personal bad luck means that I miss the kick any time I try.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 21 April 2013, 06:02:50
My personal preference is usually to "play it safe". If I fall down, it may be difficult to get up, and even if I will get up, I will spend my precious MPs doing so.

*nod* While I tend to figure "hey, I'm on a battlefield here, 'safe' kind of just went out of the window!" and not sweat the small risks so much. Yeah, I might manage to overbalance and go down from a badly misplaced kick, my MASC might freeze both hip actuators at once, or my UAC might seize up and become useless if I double-tap. But usually these things don't actually happen when I take the chance, and if and when I do end up turning out to be wrong about that for once, well, I'll just deal with that when I get there.

To each their own. :)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 21 April 2013, 06:07:21
It's the similar problem as with the old HBK-4G Hunchback in 3025 games - BRZ-C3 simply attracts disproportionate amount of enemy fire because of those 40-points Hatchet swings.

which a savvy player can use to their advantage.. one time years back when i was not as good a tactician, i was in a game where my opponent had a Berserker and some Marauder II's heading towards my own assault lance. not being very tactically smart at the time, i kept focusing my fire on the beserker, fearing it's hachet.. while the Marauder II's just kept up a steady barrage of fire pounding my mechs.

eventually a lucky shot took the berserker down, and his marauder's wound up too close to survive against my mechs (i was limited in mech choices at the time, so i had assaults with more close range than long range firepower.)

if you know your opponent is likely to make the mistake of focusing fire on an enemy for its 'potential' rather than its actual current threat level, you can use that to trick them into wasting their firepower or pull them into a position more favorable for you.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: DoctorMonkey on 21 April 2013, 06:10:49
which a savvy player can use to their advantage.. one time years back when i was not as good a tactician, i was in a game where my opponent had a Berserker and some Marauder II's heading towards my own assault lance. not being very tactically smart at the time, i kept focusing my fire on the beserker, fearing it's hachet.. while the Marauder II's just kept up a steady barrage of fire pounding my mechs.

eventually a lucky shot took the berserker down, and his marauder's wound up too close to survive against my mechs (i was limited in mech choices at the time, so i had assaults with more close range than long range firepower.)

if you know your opponent is likely to make the mistake of focusing fire on an enemy for its 'potential' rather than its actual current threat level, you can use that to trick them into wasting their firepower or pull them into a position more favorable for you.


So, the BRZ lets you force the enemy to make a choice: kill it from a distance before it closes and creates mayhem or ignore it and risk an axe to the face  :-\


In many ways the most interesting part of these articles is the "how to kill it" part and with this 'Mech it seems to be quite hard as you are either ignoring too many other 'Mechs to take it down or risking some one-axe-blow-kills once it's closed
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kotetsu on 21 April 2013, 06:32:36
OUCH...  But since you need 2 slots free in each location (bar the CT and head) and with the hatchet you only get one in that arm, you could not do it.

There is a solution to that... Actually two. Three if you are a real evil bastard with it.

Null Sig, Chameleon, and possibly Void if you read it as you are unable to be seen unless you move.

Try that last with your TSM active... and some poor shlub doesn't see you and stops right in front of you... with his back turned.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 21 April 2013, 06:34:01

So, the BRZ lets you force the enemy to make a choice: kill it from a distance before it closes and creates mayhem or ignore it and risk an axe to the face  :-\


In many ways the most interesting part of these articles is the "how to kill it" part and with this 'Mech it seems to be quite hard as you are either ignoring too many other 'Mechs to take it down or risking some one-axe-blow-kills once it's closed

That's really a pretty general problem. In the abstract, your opponent has some long-range platforms that keep taking potshots at you for a given amount of firepower A, while his or her short-ranged fighters are trying to work their way closer so they can add their own firepower B to the mix. Obviously, you want to minimize your exposure to the combination of A and B over the course of the entire scenario while still achieving your own objectives -- so, do you try to stop B from ever materializing while not doing anything about A for a while, or do you try to reduce A as the immediate threat now and worry about B later?

I think I'd personally tend more towards the latter on the principle that it's probably better not to give the currently active threat part of the OpFor any more chances to get lucky than I absolutely have to, but I'm not 100% convinced that that's already the go-to general purpose answer.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 21 April 2013, 12:59:42
Doesn't that really depend on your own force?
If you got mostly long range armament, you won't survive B, so it has to go first, if you get short ranged armament, you don't have the choice, if it's a mix, it's preference; I suppose if the force has homogenous armament, A is the bigger threat.
When in question, I suggest ECm and minefields.  8)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 21 April 2013, 13:03:36
Your 'problem' is my 'at least they are shooting a heavily armored assault Mech'.  Also, IMO, all melee Mechs benefit from using Tac Ops.  A Berserker with the ability to walk and axe someone after the movement phase gives a whole new meaning to 'bubble of doom'

Just to clarify, one could sprint for 10 MP and still have the ability to axe somebody afterwards?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 21 April 2013, 13:23:11
Just to clarify, one could sprint for 10 MP and still have the ability to axe somebody afterwards?
No, you can't do that.

I guess that probably he meant the Physical Defence rule.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 21 April 2013, 13:42:10
No, you can't do that.

I guess that probably he meant the Physical Defence rule.

Ah. I was starting to wonder.

Well, if that's the one, then I'm not overly impressed. Most of the time I'd be grateful to somebody who voluntarily turned his or her 'Mech into a stationary target for a turn just to delay its movement (with a possible physical followup attack) until the Physical Attack phase.

Probably not grateful enough not to shoot at them while I can and they're not allowed to, but you can't have everything. ;)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 21 April 2013, 13:54:41
No, you can't do that.

I guess that probably he meant the Physical Defence rule.

Ah ok. But even if one could do it you'd still have the issue of not being at +9 heat anymore unless one would switch off every single heatsink.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 21 April 2013, 13:56:13
Ah. I was starting to wonder.

Well, if that's the one, then I'm not overly impressed. Most of the time I'd be grateful to somebody who voluntarily turned his or her 'Mech into a stationary target for a turn just to delay its movement (with a possible physical followup attack) until the Physical Attack phase.

Probably not grateful enough not to shoot at them while I can and they're not allowed to, but you can't have everything. ;)

Well, the rule (if it is that one) may have some uses when fighting in a city or a broken terrain. Just imagine you won initiative, you and your opponent did your units movements, and then during the Physical Attack phase the Berserker or the Neanderthal moves out of some gorge or sidestreet into the contact distance with its Hatchet ready.

One positive fact: This rule forbids weapons attacks and therefore, it effectively neutralizes TSM 'Mechs such as those two aforementioned units since they need weapons to keep themselves hot. They can attack, but it will be standard damage only.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 21 April 2013, 14:02:48
Unless they were already running hot and turned off enough sinks to stay there.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Moonsword on 21 April 2013, 14:04:56
[legal]

TSM disables at the end of the turn.  It's still going to charge out of ambush and hit you for 40 points that first turn.  And if he's planning to pull a stunt like that, like AW just pointed out, there's every chance your opponent has decided to disable heat sinks ahead of time, meaning he's going to have plenty of TSM vigor afterwards.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: martian on 21 April 2013, 14:09:41
Unless they were already running hot and turned off enough sinks to stay there.
Yeah, that's possible. But when I am weighing the pros and cons, I am not sure if that all is worth it. Because the proper recon ought spot something (hopefully).
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 21 April 2013, 14:12:14
Well, the rule (if it is that one) may have some uses when fighting in a city or a broken terrain. Just imagine you won initiative, you and your opponent did your units movements, and then during the Physical Attack phase the Berserker or the Neanderthal moves out of some gorge or sidestreet into the contact distance with its Hatchet ready.

One positive fact: This rule forbids weapons attacks and therefore, it effectively neutralizes TSM 'Mechs such as those two aforementioned units since they need weapons to keep themselves hot. They can attack, but it will be standard damage only.

Yeah, I thought of that while I was AFK for a few minutes. As a special-case ambush tactic in terrain that offers a lot of cover and forces short engagement ranges it can work from time to time.

What it's not (and that's the impression I came away with from rereading Scrollreader's post again) is any sort of way to end up with extra MP to position one's 'Mech for a physical attack. In fact, since it's its own movement mode that only allows you to spend up to Walking MP, you're actually potentially slower than if you just ran up to your target shooting as you went and then took a swipe with your hatchet as well.

With regard to shutting off heat sinks, I see one possible way to get tripped up -- Physical Defense presumably (it doesn't actually say so, but it's treated pretty much like walking otherwise as well) only builds up 1 heat per turn. Modern TSM designs generally have double heat sinks. Staying at the magic 9 without weapons fire might just prove a bit tricky here. :)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Moonsword on 21 April 2013, 15:00:52
Yeah, fine control is lacking when you start talking about toggling DHS.  However, until you hit 15 heat, you're still moving at least as fast as the 'Mech would without overloaded cooling systems, so I'm willing to eat that and do some juggling to fix it up a turn later in the right circumstances.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 21 April 2013, 15:18:12
There is a solution to that... Actually two. Three if you are a real evil bastard with it.

Null Sig, Chameleon, and possibly Void if you read it as you are unable to be seen unless you move.

Try that last with your TSM active... and some poor shlub doesn't see you and stops right in front of you... with his back turned.

One of those will work, but you could not do both chameleon and null.

I remember one game where thunder munitions had put a minefield between my Berzerker A3 and its target....The target
actually moved around to put the mine field between me and him. Tactically, a smart , since that also put 7 hexes between
us(in a Straight line!) What sort of maniac would try to close with that, right? This sort of maniac, actually. After all, mine fields
are actually fairly hard to get to pop (needing a roll of 9+ on 2d6). So...I kicked on the MASC, and declared a charge. My opponent's
second mistake was that he landed on the spot of terrain with a sheer drop on the other side, and I did the math that a Charge plus
the fall would do the most damage I could inflict.

Imagine the poor enemy pilot: He sees the Berserker barreling straight towards him at top speed, mines blowing up
as it passes past them(I actually had 2 hexes go off in the run, but they were 10 point fields) to charge him for 70 damage,
plus a 3 level fall....

Sounds almost as bad as someone deciding to park himself 9 hexes in front of an 80 ton quad with a 400xl engine, not realizing i had MASC for a 10 hex charge (well 9)...

Quote
Now if kicks didnt have the -2 modifier, hatchets would be a lot more attractive. But they do, so there we are.

It is kind of strange that kicks, something NOT designed for actual physical combat are better off being used than hatchets which are..
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Nikas_Zekeval on 21 April 2013, 17:29:35

So, the BRZ lets you force the enemy to make a choice: kill it from a distance before it closes and creates mayhem or ignore it and risk an axe to the face  :-\


In many ways the most interesting part of these articles is the "how to kill it" part and with this 'Mech it seems to be quite hard as you are either ignoring too many other 'Mechs to take it down or risking some one-axe-blow-kills once it's closed

Depending on the rest of each side, maybe try devoting enough firepower each turn to force a PSR due to damage?  Not only does a fall get a bonus ten points of damage, but getting back up burns MP the Berserker needs to close on someone.  An Awesome or Dragonfire has fair chance of doing that at range.  As I noted other than the B3 model (which has issues of its own) the Berserker has issues when the fight is larger than a phone booth.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 21 April 2013, 18:40:52
Thinking about it, a Fafnir could kick after it fired two heavy gauss into someone's face, if at a penalty, no?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 21 April 2013, 19:06:21
Thinking about it, a Fafnir could kick after it fired two heavy gauss into someone's face, if at a penalty, no?

Well, there'd be no penalty to the kick. Assuming the Fafnir was still upright after taking those two shots in the weapon attack phase (fired while braced or just passed the PSRs), it could then kick during the physical attack phase just like any other 'Mech.

Of course, trying to hit a target with both HGRs and then kick it in the same turn kind of necessitates eating that +4 minimum range penalty on each shot first...
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 21 April 2013, 19:20:06
True, it's not particularly likely, but it goes to show that just resorting to kicking after unloading with actual weapons definitely has advantages over a melee design that could certainly still kick if the opportunity presented itself.
Maybe a King Crab is a better example of the problem.
So wouldn't a Berzerker be massively improved by carrying a shield instead of the Hatchet, and maybe getting spikes and short ranged boomsticks?
Sure the concept is there and all, but the rules really don't support it with sense; Even if there's a reason to use a Hatchet over the legs, there's not really a reason to have a Hatchet in the first place.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 21 April 2013, 22:19:21
Kicking may be hazardous. Miss your kick and consequently your PSR roll - and and you will be lying at your enemy's feet.

Meh. No guarantees in Battletech. Though the worst piloting skill I'll take on a 'Mech with TSM is 3, so I'm not terribly worried.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Moonsword on 22 April 2013, 13:33:03
Of course, trying to hit a target with both HGRs and then kick it in the same turn kind of necessitates eating that +4 minimum range penalty on each shot first...

Bingo.  That's a stunt for a King Crab or a Bane 4.  The damage isn't quite as high but they're far more likely to connect with it.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kotetsu on 22 April 2013, 15:41:09
Actually the Bane 4 might do more damage. Two Class-20 Ultras going Ultra... 40 points... And then throw in the kick.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Moonsword on 22 April 2013, 16:26:29
Assuming you're willing to eat the heat, true, although even if you go Ultra on both, there's (very, very) slightly better than a 1-in-3 chance they'll both only connect with one shot.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 22 April 2013, 21:34:31
Perhaps if the rules for hatchets made them as easy to connect with as kicks, then the tonnage paid may make them more worth wile.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Scrollreader on 22 April 2013, 23:19:31
Hatchets also make sense if they take you over a threshold.  Not particularly relevant to the Berserker, but it makes a big difference to the TSM Scarabus, or other smaller Mechs.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 23 April 2013, 02:56:02
40 points of damage take out a Mad Cat's side torso and thus also the connected arm. Period.
That's just something an arm can't do.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 23 April 2013, 03:15:18
Taking out a Leg on most things up to 70 tons is equally devastating to me, and may result in fall damage.
What really irks me is that kicking applies to self damage; A Mechs feet are clearly not designed for smashing into an armoured steel construct with high horizontal velocity, not much more than the target should be build for taking it.
So with the damage being as high as it is, that should hurt your mechs legs as well.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 23 April 2013, 03:34:55
What really irks me is that kicking applies to self damage; A Mechs feet are clearly not designed for smashing into an armoured steel construct with high horizontal velocity, not much more than the target should be build for taking it.
So with the damage being as high as it is, that should hurt your mechs legs as well.

You could say much the same for punches, especially for 'Mechs that don't have proper hand actuators in the first place and just flail around with their actual weapon barrels.

Really, the fix to kicks would be to get rid of their -2 to-hit modifier, and I could even see reasons to go up as high as +1 instead -- a punch with a fully modelled arm, proper hand and all, is already at +0, and if anything kicks should be arguably less accurate than that. (Yes, a punch has an increased chance of a head hit and you can throw two of them if you didn't fire any arm-mounted weapons at all that turn, but a kick always forces a PSR and concentrated damage to a single leg is nothing to sneeze at either.)

We may be starting to range a bit far afield from the Berserker proper here, though. :)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: dragonkid11 on 23 April 2013, 04:37:33
To me,Berserker(especially the C3 variant)is like Chryssalid in Xcom,a rape machine,if it can reach it,which unfortunately,is most of the time(ALL the time if you are stuck with a small map).

Still like it in my assault lance though,anything that get too close get chopped up in pieces immediately. :D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Scrollreader on 23 April 2013, 04:46:31
Oh, I love the C3, I just find it has a reputation out of proportion to it's actual threat.  But I do so enjoy melee Mechs, and it is an epitome of the breed. 
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 23 April 2013, 05:07:03
Taking out a Leg on most things up to 70 tons is equally devastating to me, and may result in fall damage.
What really irks me is that kicking applies to self damage; A Mechs feet are clearly not designed for smashing into an armoured steel construct with high horizontal velocity, not much more than the target should be build for taking it.
So with the damage being as high as it is, that should hurt your mechs legs as well.

Well, taking out a IS machines side torso mounting an XL engine instead of the Mad Cat example equals an insta-kill.
Doesn't get much better than killing off heavy mechs with a single stroke. ;)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Jimmyray73 on 23 April 2013, 10:40:07
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 23 April 2013, 11:27:34
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

This. 100% THIS!
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Moonsword on 23 April 2013, 17:18:45
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

That's pretty much it exactly.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: misterpants on 23 April 2013, 20:35:41
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

 O0
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: dragonkid11 on 24 April 2013, 02:48:08
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

I'm going to sig this,just for the hell of it. :D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kotetsu on 24 April 2013, 18:56:49
Well, taking out a IS machines side torso mounting an XL engine instead of the Mad Cat example equals an insta-kill.
Doesn't get much better than killing off heavy mechs with a single stroke. ;)

You can actually cut a Timber Wolf in half with the -C3's hatchet. You have to hit him Center Torso rear, but it is possible... ;)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 25 April 2013, 02:17:55
You can actually cut a Timber Wolf in half with the -C3's hatchet. You have to hit him Center Torso rear, but it is possible... ;)

*shifty eyes* I have done it. Of course, I have also hit something with a TSM Thug retrofit wielding a mace....with TSM active..
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 25 April 2013, 17:44:33
I have had one of my home made 100 ton hatchet wielders hit a stalker, two awesomes and a sunder all with TSM active..  man that 40 point whack did some massive damage.  In another session, i hit a centurion's left arm, cleaved it off, AND almost all the left torso.  That was after 3 rounds of fire stripped the LT (and ct) almost bare.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 25 April 2013, 22:19:54
That makes me remember the first time i used a Ti Ts'ang... O:-) >:D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: dragonkid11 on 26 April 2013, 10:28:47
That makes me remember the first time i used a Ti Ts'ang... O:-) >:D

TSM and melee weapon in one mech will always cause beautiful scenery of torn ablative armor,ripped metal innards,broken endoskeleton and death of man-made sun.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 26 April 2013, 11:20:12
TSM and melee weapon in one mech will always cause beautiful scenery of torn ablative armor,ripped metal innards,broken endoskeleton and death of man-made sun.

Beautifully said!
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 29 April 2013, 00:33:32
TSM and melee weapon in one mech will always cause beautiful scenery of torn ablative armor,ripped metal innards,broken endoskeleton and death of man-made sun.

It also makes the twin plasma rifle/ plasma cannon armed opponents smile. 24 heat is not a fun place to be.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 29 April 2013, 02:14:28
It also makes the twin plasma rifle/ plasma cannon armed opponents smile. 24 heat is not a fun place to be.

Meh, it's only a shutdown roll and a fairly passable ammo explosion check (and who wants to live forever, anyway?). Now if I wasn't in a TSM 'Mech and 24 heat meant I was also a complete sitting duck next turn, then I'd be in trouble. :D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 29 April 2013, 02:37:05
Having the god ranged heat adding weapons is sort of fun to make those who love the knife edge of perfect 9 heat worry.

Ah No Dachi's.....Cruelst fate I saw was a declaration of an Alpha Strike..then the opponents completely ignored it to fire at and damage another mech because, sure enough, he blew up from his own ammo.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: SCC on 29 April 2013, 03:15:38
Meh, it's only a shutdown roll and a fairly passable ammo explosion check (and who wants to live forever, anyway?). Now if I wasn't in a TSM 'Mech and 24 heat meant I was also a complete sitting duck next turn, then I'd be in trouble. :D
Yes but next turn when your hit with the heat beat stick again you will hit autoshutdown levels and it's hard to avoid because you'll have shutdown so many heatsniks and you might not able to bring enough on line, and if you weren't at Heat Level 9 but actually higher you're in an even worse postion
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 29 April 2013, 03:53:57
Yes but next turn when your hit with the heat beat stick again you will hit autoshutdown levels and it's hard to avoid because you'll have shutdown so many heatsniks and you might not able to bring enough on line, and if you weren't at Heat Level 9 but actually higher you're in an even worse postion

It's nice to know that you're so omniscient that you already know what exact mistakes I'll make before I've even thought about them. ::)

...of course, (a) I don't normally play the whole "shutting down heat sinks on purpose" game, (b) if I did, there'd be nothing whatsoever to stop me from turning them back on right in the end phase of the turn I hit 24 in the first place, (c) at those levels I'll probably simply hold my fire for a turn because at +4 to hit I'd likely not connect with anything anyway -- meaning that my heat's going to drop no matter what comes in from outside...

Oh, and I'm not necessarily that firm a believer in the Magic 9 Always, either. If the TSM shuts off for a turn, well, then it shuts off. I can always get my heat back up in the next, and if I overshoot a bit then in and of itself that's not a major issue either. After all, at 10-12 the only penalty I'm looking at in a TSM 'Mech is still that +1 to hit with weapons fire; the myomers handily compensate for the "-2 MP" part and I still have the same enhanced physicals.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Savage Coyote on 29 April 2013, 09:38:51
There's very few 'mechs you have to turn off heatsinks for to toy with TSM... most are built so you can manage them with weapons fire.  The 9T Scarabus and Shin's Hatamoto are notable exceptions that come to my mind but... anyway.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Scrollreader on 29 April 2013, 10:55:16
And even the Scarabus only needs to kill them for one round to get to 9.  It can maintain with weapons fire.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 29 April 2013, 16:56:50
And this is also assuming you even play WITH plasma rifles.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Diplominator on 29 April 2013, 17:13:04
The new JHK-03 Jade Hawk pretty much requires that you turn off a lot of heat sinks. I'm not even sure if you're allowed to turn off partial wing cooling, but even if you can't, turning off all the sinks, firing the lasers, and jumping four gets you to 9. Then it gets trickier since it doesn't have any odd-heat weapons but it's doable (although you'll get to ten from time to time).
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kotetsu on 29 April 2013, 18:22:08
Play with plasma rifles? Check.

Play with a Plasma Rifle on a Berserker? Check.  >:D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 29 April 2013, 18:27:36
The new JHK-03 Jade Hawk pretty much requires that you turn off a lot of heat sinks. I'm not even sure if you're allowed to turn off partial wing cooling,

No, not even when you don't jump.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Diplominator on 29 April 2013, 20:47:07
No, not even when you don't jump.

Well, that's a little problematic, then. Aside from jumping 3 or walking (and letting the third JJ or the supercharger go to waste) there's no way to generate an odd amount of heat, so given the PW's three heat dissipation you can't stay at nine heat.

I...I think the supercharger might be there to give yourself an engine crit and make staying at nine easier. Maybe not just for that, but...it really simplifies things.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: chanman on 29 April 2013, 23:21:50
I think of Berzerkers as urban shepherds. What would need shepherding? Fenrirs, Hetzers, Demolisher IIs, Typhoons, SRM carriers, y'know. There's a lot of stuff that might get lost in a Lyran metropolis if left to wander off on their own. Small children, tourists, scout companies...
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kotetsu on 30 April 2013, 03:43:33
I think of Berzerkers as urban shepherds. What would need shepherding? Fenrirs, Hetzers, Demolisher IIs, Typhoons, SRM carriers, y'know. There's a lot of stuff that might get lost in a Lyran metropolis if left to wander off on their own. Small children, tourists, scout companies...

UrbanMechs?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 April 2013, 03:55:48
Well, that's a little problematic, then. Aside from jumping 3 or walking (and letting the third JJ or the supercharger go to waste) there's no way to generate an odd amount of heat, so given the PW's three heat dissipation you can't stay at nine heat.

I...I think the supercharger might be there to give yourself an engine crit and make staying at nine easier. Maybe not just for that, but...it really simplifies things.

I think the IS market Jade Hawk is just a very bad design. ;)
Though the artwork is awesome.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Dakkagor on 30 April 2013, 08:51:54
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

This, so this.  I'd love to see a C4 variant of the Berserker with jump jets and pulses, TSM and ECM, maybe a C3 Slave if you can find the tonnage.  Ditch the AMS and let that beast of a machine loose in an urban environment.  It would be like Friday the 13th combined with Godzilla.

Also, on the subject of hatchet design: I like the hatchet design on the Beserker more than on the Axman or the Hachetman.  It looks like something designed to smash into a mechs side torso, and when pulled out, take its guts with it in a spray of coolant, oil, and expensive components.  A slab of brutal armoured death aimed for the head, wielded by a fire-breathing monster from legend. . .

In anyone needs me, I'll be in my bunk.   
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 April 2013, 08:54:13
If you're using TSM, JJs are kinda beside the point. An Engine supercharger would be much more useful.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 30 April 2013, 09:01:41
If you're using TSM, JJs are kinda beside the point. An Engine supercharger would be much more useful.

If your goal is ground speed, sure. However, JJs have several advantages for a melee 'mech. It can clear
buildings, and, Jump jets can, in some terrains, actually get more movement then the TSM boosted running
speed. And, more importantly: they generate heat. Which helps keep the TSM active. Since your TSM is for
making the "Hassan do chop!" (That is a Bugs Bunny reference)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 April 2013, 09:08:08
Well, if you're fighting in the Alpes then obviously JJs are still preferable. But usually running 10 should be > jumping 4, 5 and even 6 (especially given how heavy those IJJ are on an assault chassis).
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Dakkagor on 30 April 2013, 09:10:55
Exactly StCptMara.   Raw speed is only so useful, and in urban environments a 4 hex jump movement can be vital.  Even a shortened jump (3/2) can be useful for clearing buildings and obstacles safely and stalking your prey, especially if using scenario/double-blind rules that allow that mech to hide and ambush potential prey.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 30 April 2013, 09:29:15
Exactly StCptMara.   Raw speed is only so useful, and in urban environments a 4 hex jump movement can be vital.  Even a shortened jump (3/2) can be useful for clearing buildings and obstacles safely and stalking your prey, especially if using scenario/double-blind rules that allow that mech to hide and ambush potential prey.

And...Cities? They are my home. Seriously, my group uses clear plexiglass over city map boards to keep track of building CF as
we run and smash through them to get at each other..
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Savage Coyote on 30 April 2013, 09:33:14
I think of Berzerkers as urban shepherds. What would need shepherding? Fenrirs, Hetzers, Demolisher IIs, Typhoons, SRM carriers, y'know. There's a lot of stuff that might get lost in a Lyran metropolis if left to wander off on their own. Small children, tourists, scout companies...

What are scout companies?

"Iz zend in ze Zeusez!"
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kane on 30 April 2013, 10:29:03
The Berserker -C3 variant is possibly my favorite 'mech of all time. How can you go wrong with a 40 damage hatchet attack?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: wellspring on 30 April 2013, 10:41:13
And...Cities? They are my home. Seriously, my group uses clear plexiglass over city map boards to keep track of building CF as
we run and smash through them to get at each other..

oooh I like that idea.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Diplominator on 30 April 2013, 11:40:26
I think the IS market Jade Hawk is just a very bad design. ;)
Though the artwork is awesome.

It hits like an iHGR.

On the punch table.

That earns a lot of leeway in my book.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 April 2013, 12:35:46
"bad" as in "really, really much less than what it could have been".
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Moonsword on 30 April 2013, 12:47:31
"bad" as in "really, really much less than what it could have been".

Actually, we knew pretty much what that stinker was going to look like.  It lines up quite well with the original design specs from the original Dark Age material.

Whatever you want to say about the JHK-03 and the standard Jade Hawk, the Jade Hawk 2 is a very different ball of wax.  And a much sparklier one than the JHK-03 since it's lit up like a Pink Floyd concert after dark thanks to those laser heat sinks.

EDIT: The Clan base model and the JHK-03 both have enough SRMs to be enormous pains in the neck to tank commanders, too, especially if they pile on with the ERSLs.  You're running the risk that the tank gets to return the favor but no one running tanks wants that many SRMs spammed across their rear or side arcs.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 April 2013, 12:59:03
Actually, we knew pretty much what that stinker was going to look like.  It lines up quite well with the original design specs from the original Dark Age material.

Whatever you want to say about the JHK-03 and the standard Jade Hawk, the Jade Hawk 2 is a very different ball of wax.  And a much sparklier one than the JHK-03 since it's lit up like a Pink Floyd concert after dark thanks to those laser heat sinks.

EDIT: The Clan base model and the JHK-03 both have enough SRMs to be enormous pains in the neck to tank commanders, too, especially if they pile on with the ERSLs.  You're running the risk that the tank gets to return the favor but no one running tanks wants that many SRMs spammed across their rear or side arcs.

Yeah, I was referring to the JHK-03.
And of course, the short range punch is devastating, but given the horrible TSM management, the overall subpar armament, the almost worthless jump jets as well as the partial wing... it's just a bad design in terms of min-maxing.
But well, WizKids had the sculpt made up which obviously incorporated a wing structure and missile launchers and since TPTB decided against coming up with external heatsinks I guess there was only so much one could do in terms of the JH's conversion to battletech.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: shadow_walker on 30 April 2013, 21:32:38
Ah No Dachi's.....Cruelst fate I saw was a declaration of an Alpha Strike..then the opponents completely ignored it to fire at and damage another mech because, sure enough, he blew up from his own ammo.

It's amazing how that has never happen to me. Oh wait. It's because I know what I'm doing in a Kurtia death trap.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: chanman on 30 April 2013, 22:38:32
It's amazing how that has never happen to me. Oh wait. It's because I know what I'm doing in a Kurtia death trap.

Dying in glorious combat?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 30 April 2013, 23:16:50
It's amazing how that has never happen to me. Oh wait. It's because I know what I'm doing in a Kurtia death trap.

Well, to be fair to the guy, he's lost initiative and had to declare fire first; he thought he was a goner.  It was just the reaction when we declared fire elsewhere that was priceless.

It was almost as fun as when you inferno'd one of your own allies TSM equipped Mechs to 'help' them on the heat scale when they wouldn't engage. :)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 01 May 2013, 04:37:40
It was almost as fun as when you inferno'd one of your own allies TSM equipped Mechs to 'help' them on the heat scale when they wouldn't engage. :)

Heh. Not strictly cricket by the book (you're not allowed to target friendlies, period), but of course there's no good in-universe reason why you couldn't do exactly that. ;)

I find my own relationship with TSM running a bit hot and cold (ouch), but lately I've been warming up to it again a bit (okay, okay, I'll stop now...). The main problem is purely in my head anyway -- for some reason I've got the idea stuck in there that TSM is something you either put onto a finely-tuned specialist flashbulb or don't bother with at all. Which is obviously silly since as long as you can afford the six critical slots TSM is always at worst a weight-free way to mitigate the worst movement effects from overheating...

And on reflection, that whole "Cult of the Magic 9" movement? Seems to owe much of its existence to the purely meta-reason that Battle Value also exists and prices TSM as though it was always on (without then accounting for the to-hit penalties you'd get if it really was, of course) -- thus creating the situation in which players feel they have to justify their "investment" in the first place.

I mean, 9 heat would still be a perfectly fine breakpoint for TSM 'Mechs even without BV -- but would people really feel quite as driven to always get and stay there purely on TSM's own merits?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Dakkagor on 01 May 2013, 05:27:18
And...Cities? They are my home. Seriously, my group uses clear plexiglass over city map boards to keep track of building CF as
we run and smash through them to get at each other..

That. . .is a really good idea.  going to suggest that to our gaming group.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 01 May 2013, 09:06:31
That. . .is a really good idea.  going to suggest that to our gaming group.

When we thought of it, my group spent several minutes laughing because we had not thought of it sooner...
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: William J. Pennington on 01 May 2013, 11:01:30
Heh. Not strictly cricket by the book (you're not allowed to target friendlies, period), but of course there's no good in-universe reason why you couldn't do exactly that. ;)

Well, it was a 'friendly' game. :)

Quote
I mean, 9 heat would still be a perfectly fine breakpoint for TSM 'Mechs even without BV -- but would people really feel quite as driven to always get and stay there purely on TSM's own merits?

I would. If it wasn't for TSM you wouldn't want to hang out at heat at all. Going over 9 heat negates the bonus MP--which can be pretty  darn important for getting you to melee quicker, maybe even to a higher defensive modifier.  Losing that bonus MP for being unable to maintain 9 no matter what movement mode I chose would lead me not to take such a 'Mech in the first place.  The extra movement is part of the package, for the ability to close quicker, get into a better spot than I normally would--and maybe actually force that physical combat, and not being able to maintain it except under very limited circumstances matters.

That said, my longest running and one of my favorite MechWarrior characters was a heat scale riding hatchet wielding nutjob who loved his TSM, who would ride heat to 29 then look at a DFA as a cool down maneuver. Sometimes, its not about efficiency, but style.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: A. Lurker on 01 May 2013, 11:20:33
I would. If it wasn't for TSM you wouldn't want to hang out at heat at all.

I suppose, but what about TSM supposedly makes it so that once I have it I suddenly do? What's keeping me from just saying "hooray, I've got TSM, guess I'll save it for an inferno-rich day" and then simply running the 'Mech just as cool as I would if I didn't?

There's the whole BV thing I already mentioned in my last post, of course. But other than that?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: StCptMara on 01 May 2013, 11:29:04
I suppose, but what about TSM supposedly makes it so that once I have it I suddenly do? What's keeping me from just saying "hooray, I've got TSM, guess I'll save it for an inferno-rich day" and then simply running the 'Mech just as cool as I would if I didn't?

That actually reminds me of one time where we used random 'mechs, but blind variants(as in: Random mechs, but only
let people know something had what they saw it use). I got a C3, and I did not turn off heat sinks or such. I was keeping
it dead on heat curce, in fact..and one of my opponants fired Inferno's at me...and generated enough heat to put me to 9
over heat....poor 3050 Missile Boat Jenner...
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Savage Coyote on 01 May 2013, 13:37:26
I suppose, but what about TSM supposedly makes it so that once I have it I suddenly do? What's keeping me from just saying "hooray, I've got TSM, guess I'll save it for an inferno-rich day" and then simply running the 'Mech just as cool as I would if I didn't?

There's the whole BV thing I already mentioned in my last post, of course. But other than that?

Nothing forces you to use it, though I'd argue many of the canon designs that have TSM on them are also designed to make use of it and not just as a "oh, hey look I have this and just happen to have hit 9."

The 3T Defiance is one that you don't have to use the TSM and still be an effective 'Mech;  you just pay the extra BV for it.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Tslammer on 18 June 2013, 18:33:59
In reading all of what you all go through I am so happy my group can ignore BV and does not have to only play stock designs. We fight (RPG setting)what ever the GM throws at us including modified Zerks. The last one (two weeks ago) had two ERPPC one in each arm something like 9 ML, AMS, ECM, Beagle, TSM, and Armored components. He ditched the Axe and MASC for armored components. But he could not catch and kill anything. We surmised its great at killing 4/6 speed mech's and if it can catch you it can kill you. But it spent the night chasing a cagey Flashman it could not corner.

We also play on a large table 50x60 Geo-Hexes so there is either room to run and hide or flank depending on the set of the terrain.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Kotetsu on 27 January 2014, 18:31:43
Added the latest variant to the write-up.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Wrangler on 27 January 2014, 21:43:54
I haven't seen where you added the new materials.

As far I know, there only been one sighting of a Berserker during the Dark Age. That was on Aterus during Operation: Homecoming piloting by someone in the 1st Regulan Hussars in the novel, To Ride the Chimera.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Soutek on 27 January 2014, 23:48:36
Always liked the Berserker. I'm thinking about fishing one out of the salvage yards and painting it.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: mbear on 28 January 2014, 09:04:47
I haven't seen where you added the new materials.
Wrangler, it's the paragraph that begins "Sometime after the Jihad, Defiance revisited the Berserker and successfully..." It's from RS:3145 NTNU.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 28 January 2014, 15:39:30
I'd love to see a berserker paint job that makes it look like a fire breathing dragon
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Grantwhy on 17 February 2014, 04:33:05
and to add another voice to the Hatchet vs Kick debate ....

One thing I don't think I saw in this thread was comparing 'firing arcs'

* A Kick can hit a target in one of the three hexes in 'front' of the 'Mech (not counting Quads in this example)

* With Torso Twist, a Hatchet can hit a target in any of the six hexes around a 'Mech

Now, that may not seem like a important thing, and in game it may not stop people getting into to the rear of a Berserker with a lighter 'Mech and Kick to force a PSR (I have fond memories of having a Locust do that and knock over an Atlas  >:D),
but in-universe, there would be a BIG difference between getting behind an 100 ton Assault 'Mech and kicking when you know it has little chance of getting a physical attack on you vs getting behind a Berserker and watching it torso twist and swing a 7 ton Hatchet at you :o.

Then there is the fact that when trying to Kick you have to manoeuvre to get your target in your 'front' three hexes.  To use the Hatchet you just need to be next to your target  :).
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 17 February 2014, 17:05:45
Plus with hatchets you can hit above you as well.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Mordegald on 06 April 2014, 13:26:18
Never played a Berserker or gone up against one, but I'd still like to pick one up. It's just such a cool 'mech.

As for the hatchet, I like the weird square sideways one in the official art. The Harried Salaryman and his Briefcase of Perdition take no prisoners.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: SteelRaven on 06 April 2014, 16:35:31
The Berzerker has always worked very well for me. Very good speed to close in on the enemy or to get out of harms way and descent range for a Melee mech.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 06 April 2014, 16:59:14
Never played a Berserker or gone up against one, but I'd still like to pick one up. It's just such a cool 'mech.

As for the hatchet, I like the weird square sideways one in the official art. The Harried Salaryman and his Briefcase of Perdition take no prisoners.

It's worth it. But skip the miniature- or at least be ready to mod it. That axe is really disappointing, sorry to say.  :(
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: SteelRaven on 06 April 2014, 19:07:58
It's worth it. But skip the miniature- or at least be ready to mod it. That axe is really disappointing, sorry to say.  :(
The looks the best in a running pose;
(http://camospecs.com/images/schemes/58_Pen_Battlecorp_Berserker2.jpg)
(http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25574.0;attach=15474;image)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 06 April 2014, 21:31:20
Oh no argument- which means a lot of cutting and pinning in the legs to do. Since I'm terrible at that sort of thing, not much I can do about it.

And it still doesn't fix the axe. For seven tons, I want something that looks like a blade from hell- that hardly even looks like an axe. Compare it to the original artwork, and look at how small it is!

I've seen someone replace it with a GW axe from some Warhammer model or other, that looked pretty great- THAT I might be able to do myself, but cutting the legs up like on the two pics above is well beyond my abilities.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: SteelRaven on 06 April 2014, 23:09:45
I'm terrible at modding my self and I fave yet to see one BT mini with a axe that looks as good as the artwork. Well, at least the axe isn't as bad as the claws on the pillager #P
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: wantec on 07 April 2014, 16:29:24
Oh no argument- which means a lot of cutting and pinning in the legs to do. Since I'm terrible at that sort of thing, not much I can do about it.

And it still doesn't fix the axe. For seven tons, I want something that looks like a blade from hell- that hardly even looks like an axe. Compare it to the original artwork, and look at how small it is!

I've seen someone replace it with a GW axe from some Warhammer model or other, that looked pretty great- THAT I might be able to do myself, but cutting the legs up like on the two pics above is well beyond my abilities.
Chicken. Seriously though, the best practice is to just go out and do it. If you screw it up, well suddenly your "running" pose turns to a "badly damaged and running for home" pose. And if you screw up really badly it just ends up as the wreckage decorating the base of another mech. You just gotta take some chances.

For the legs & arms, you might be able to get away with slowly bending each joint. You might not get as dramatic a pose as cutting and pinning, but you could get a walking pose instead of merely standing. Or you could get a trotting post out of a walking one, depending on the sculpt of the particular mini.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 07 April 2014, 21:05:20
Chicken. Seriously though, the best practice is to just go out and do it. If you screw it up, well suddenly your "running" pose turns to a "badly damaged and running for home" pose. And if you screw up really badly it just ends up as the wreckage decorating the base of another mech. You just gotta take some chances.

For the legs & arms, you might be able to get away with slowly bending each joint. You might not get as dramatic a pose as cutting and pinning, but you could get a walking pose instead of merely standing. Or you could get a trotting post out of a walking one, depending on the sculpt of the particular mini.

With respect, money is tight enough right now that if I'm going to drop money on a miniature, it had better be a good one- if it's something that I stand as much chance of ruining as I do of painting halfway decent, I'm better off spending my money on something else.

(This from someone who's last miniature purchase was at Christmas... a Clint. Of all things.  ???)
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: grimlock1 on 28 November 2017, 01:51:09
The C3 really needed to have a left hand.

"Why?" you ask.  Other than my perpetual eye-twitch at the mechs that omit lower arm and hand actuators for no good reason, I direct your attention to the A Time of War Companion, page 69, and the Zweihander SPA. 

So that's a 20 point hatchet attack, doubled for TSM, plus 2 points for every ten tons of attacker...  When I punch those numbers into my calculator...  What that heck?  My calculator just jumped up and ran away!
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: marauder648 on 28 November 2017, 05:16:05
(https://i.imgur.com/6gLTA20.jpg)

Re-done 'zerker you say? :D

Done by Matt Plog, this is a take on the C3 but used in Solaris.  My issue with the Zerker, and its the only one, is its look. The fluff says DI spent many many monies on designing the Berzerker to look scary and imposing.  It looks like it was designed by Apple, lots of smooth, rounded edges and sweeping curves which work to make it look oddly elegant for a 100 ton machine who's whole purpose is to get close and go "IMMA PUNCH YOU WITH MY AXE!!!!"  That one looks a bit more bitey, less Apple and more "I WILL BITE YOUR TORSO!"
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: grimlock1 on 28 November 2017, 06:58:11
(https://i.imgur.com/6gLTA20.jpg)

Re-done 'zerker you say? :D

Done by Matt Plog, this is a take on the C3 but used in Solaris.  My issue with the Zerker, and its the only one, is its look. The fluff says DI spent many many monies on designing the Berzerker to look scary and imposing.  It looks like it was designed by Apple, lots of smooth, rounded edges and sweeping curves which work to make it look oddly elegant for a 100 ton machine who's whole purpose is to get close and go "IMMA PUNCH YOU WITH MY AXE!!!!"  That one looks a bit more bitey, less Apple and more "I WILL BITE YOUR TORSO!"

AGREED!  The original art for the 'Zerker was bland, almost soothing!  The 3055u art, but interior and cover are better, but you're description of it being an Apple product is great.  There should be nothing soothing about 100 tons of flame belching, hatchet swinging metal, bounding across the battlefield at 90 kph!
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Wrangler on 28 November 2017, 07:56:28
As pretty it looks, it doesn't look like Berserker to me.  Looks like slim Atlas wearing a American Wild West bandit bandana over it's mouth to mug people with the Ax.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: sadlerbw on 28 November 2017, 12:07:31
Yeah, the face is a little too 'atlas' for me...but the LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE looks great!

I will admit, the shoulder pads give me a mutant league vibe, but in my book that isn't a bad thing.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Luciora on 28 November 2017, 12:30:17
You definately want to shorten the left arm at the very least.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Orin J. on 29 November 2017, 00:22:20
(https://i.imgur.com/6gLTA20.jpg)

Re-done 'zerker you say? :D

Done by Matt Plog, this is a take on the C3 but used in Solaris.  My issue with the Zerker, and its the only one, is its look. The fluff says DI spent many many monies on designing the Berzerker to look scary and imposing.  It looks like it was designed by Apple, lots of smooth, rounded edges and sweeping curves which work to make it look oddly elegant for a 100 ton machine who's whole purpose is to get close and go "IMMA PUNCH YOU WITH MY AXE!!!!"  That one looks a bit more bitey, less Apple and more "I WILL BITE YOUR TORSO!"

One of those rare times Plog's work doesn't sit well with me. It just smacks of trying too hard, i suppose Plog didn't like the old design either.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: marauder648 on 29 November 2017, 00:25:23
It was actually my fault :p  I had the idea for the armour additions, and saw this as a ride of a Solaris Gladiator who put on a lot of cosmetic stuff to make his 'zerker look mean and unique :) Its actually loosely based on one of the warrior armour tiers from Warcraft :p  So blame me, not him :D
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: garhkal on 29 November 2017, 02:22:14
That Berserker pic makes it look like he's armored via heavy armor..
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 29 November 2017, 04:13:44
Berserker has one of the coolest illustrations:
"Intimidating Paint Job" (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Intimidating_Paint_Job_CCG_Mercenaries.jpg)
 >:D

I have a Berserker mini painted up to look like that card.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: Wrangler on 29 November 2017, 07:37:51
Rather like that version more, it has more Berserker (be scared) thing going for it.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: sadlerbw on 29 November 2017, 13:52:49
I swear I saw a re-do of this mech that had flaming liquid dripping from the flamer which looked really cool. However, I can’t seem to find it anywhere, so I may not be remembering correctly. I want to say it was another take on the Plog design above.
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 29 November 2017, 14:12:22
Are you sure you're not thinking of the artwork in TRO 3055 Upgrade?
Title: Re: ’Mech of the Week: BRZ-*3 Berserker
Post by: SteelRaven on 29 November 2017, 14:42:06
Original TRO:3055 (1992) artwork by Dana Knutson
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/c/c5/3055_Berserker.jpg?timestamp=20100621201520

The TRO:3050 (1992) Assault Mech into page by Earl Geier
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/7/79/Berserker_vs_Salamander.jpg?timestamp=20100404100440

Battletech CCG: Mercenaries (1997) Berserker by Ted Naifeh
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/0/0f/Berserker_%28BRZ-A3%29_CCG_Mercenaries.jpg?timestamp=20100307032034
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/3/36/CCG_Mercenaries_Berserker.jpg?timestamp=20100625215551

Battletech CCG: Mercenaries (1997) Intimidating Paint Job by Dermot Powers
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/3/36/Intimidating_Paint_Job_CCG_Mercenaries.jpg?timestamp=20100307130941

TRO:3055 Upgrade (2005) artwork by Matt Plog
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/1/1c/3055u_Berserker.jpg?timestamp=20110119175341

TRO:3055 Upgrade (2005) cover art by Kazuhiko Miyake
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/7/70/TRO_3055u.JPG?timestamp=20141127010822