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BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Weirdo on 11 November 2014, 22:48:53

Title: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 11 November 2014, 22:48:53
Who Falcons harder than any Falcon has ever Falconed in the history of Falconing? We'll never know, because the scientists were writing the history books! Time to redefine what makes a Falcon!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 11 November 2014, 23:38:13
I find this thread title acceptable.

*Gets kicked out for Foxing too much.*
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 November 2014, 00:34:21
My sig approves of this title
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 November 2014, 01:12:04
Man. Malvina is falconing as hard as she can.

*also evicted for Foxing*
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 November 2014, 01:15:52
I AM JADE FALCON!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 12 November 2014, 01:29:02
...and now I know what Noritomo Helmer looks like. I will ignore all other art, that one is too perfect. ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 12 November 2014, 01:58:19
Y'know, I'm trying to think of a place where Brian Blessed would fit better, and aside from being the BEST LYRAN GENERAL EVER, I can't think of a better faction for him off hand.  Let's face it, the Falcons are pretty hammy.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 12 November 2014, 03:03:05
This, is Jade Falcon

(http://www.jeremyriad.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/airbrushed-pigeons-5.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 12 November 2014, 03:49:05
This, is Jade Falcon

(http://www.jeremyriad.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/airbrushed-pigeons-5.jpg)

Ahh the Mighty Turkina in all its glory...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 12 November 2014, 06:22:38
you must be making Hazen turn in her grave !
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 12 November 2014, 07:02:20
There would be a double entendre here, but Falcons are birds.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 November 2014, 07:39:57
I AM JADE FALCON!

There is no word for how much win this represents
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 12 November 2014, 09:07:05
2nd

I AM JADE FALCON!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 12 November 2014, 23:48:56
Taking Pryde in Falconing to the max.  ^-^ 

Because Falconing Pryde is simply not asked for or explained. 

 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 November 2014, 23:53:59
For the record, and on the advice of a trusted friend, I've decided to associate my Falcon persona with the Buhallin Bloodname. No bloodnamed character yet, unlike my Anson "Unreasoning" Furey Smoke Jaguar, or Troll Cage of the Ice Hellions ...

Although the discovery that the Helmer bloodline is descended from Brian Blessed almost swayed me ... ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 13 November 2014, 12:19:48
Buhallin has a fine pedigree, though the former DA loremaster caused more than a few problems.  She paid the ultimate price though.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Krieghund on 13 November 2014, 13:37:42
Just checking in to see how things are going. We're going to need a pelt over the mantle, BTW. Wolf, Coyote, either will do.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 13 November 2014, 13:42:44
Just checking in to see how things are going. We're going to need a pelt over the mantle, BTW. Wolf, Coyote, either will do.

Grab one of those Imperial Wolves... I hear they have fine pelts.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 13 November 2014, 18:41:19
For the record, and on the advice of a trusted friend, I've decided to associate my Falcon persona with the Buhallin Bloodname. No bloodnamed character yet, unlike my Anson "Unreasoning" Furey Smoke Jaguar, or Troll Cage of the Ice Hellions ...

Trying to pry the names from us, ehhh?  Well, I failed my check vs Troll Cage, so I feel compelled to share this:

Kilgore Pershaw. 

The name says it all, plus a bunch more for the back side of a record sheet.  But it's not as pun-ishing as Troll Cage.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 13 November 2014, 19:42:52
This is only Thread II? Yes, harder falconing is necessary.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 13 November 2014, 20:01:55
I just checked google for some kind of Jade Falcon pony mash up and all I could find is a humanized Fluttershy threatening a green turkey with a clever.  A search for a Jade Falcon transformers mash up was equally unsuccessful.  Maybe more so since I didn't even find a picture of bumblebee threatening a green lazerbeak with a cleaver.

Over all I'm very disappointed in my top 3 obsessions.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Auberan on 14 November 2014, 00:30:19
This, is Jade Falcon

(http://www.jeremyriad.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/airbrushed-pigeons-5.jpg)

(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii627/jlocke0081/JC.jpg)

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 14 November 2014, 00:44:41
Thank you for the fix !  O0 as it should be
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 14 November 2014, 10:20:21
Custom Jade Falcon dice I had made during my MWDA days.

EDIT: Image removed pending admin review.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 14 November 2014, 11:39:06
I always wondered what the policy was for posting customized items.  I have a JF travel coffee mug that has thus far confused my coworkers.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 14 November 2014, 11:43:34
I always wondered what the policy was for posting customized items.  I have a JF travel coffee mug that has thus far confused my coworkers.

I don't see why it would be any different than posting custom minis.   I didn't pay for them and I sure as heck ain't selling them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 November 2014, 20:55:33
I'm...honestly not sure. I'd ask an admin like Worktroll or God and Davion first, to be sure.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 14 November 2014, 21:13:09
This, is Jade Falcon

(http://www.jeremyriad.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/airbrushed-pigeons-5.jpg)

Seems pretty amusing until you realize that, due to the efforts of Jade Falcon scientists, they're actually 40' tall and carnivorous.   O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 14 November 2014, 21:20:11
Seems pretty amusing until you realize that, due to the efforts of Jade Falcon scientists, they're actually 40' tall and carnivorous.   O0

Who SAYS the Falcon Scientist Caste sucks post-WoR?   :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 15 November 2014, 06:09:22
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii627/jlocke0081/JC.jpg)

Fixed that for you.

So fighting over the carcass of another clan victory?   :P
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 15 November 2014, 07:35:39
This is only Thread II? Yes, harder falconing is necessary.

This is because we Falcon all over the other threads. Our awesomeness cannot be contained in two or three threads let alone a single one.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 15 November 2014, 09:30:29
So fighting over the carcass of another clan victory?   :P

No, we came to eat the Wolf, leaving the carcass for the Snow Raven fluttering away in fear, because we're Clan Jade Falcon and we make everything at least twice as hard as it has to be. 

That's how Elizabeth Hazen did it, that's how Clan Jade Falcon does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 November 2014, 10:21:08
No, we came to eat the Wolf, leaving the carcass for the Snow Raven fluttering away in fear, because we're Clan Jade Falcon and we make everything at least twice as hard as it has to be. 

That's how Elizabeth Hazen did it, that's how Clan Jade Falcon does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far.

And loving it!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 15 November 2014, 11:08:51
I'm...honestly not sure. I'd ask an admin like Worktroll or God and Davion first, to be sure.

Worktroll said no dice(pun not intended, but it works so well, doesn't it?)since I received them in a trade, but if I had made them myself, all would be kosher. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 15 November 2014, 14:27:48
Using the remains of our last kill to attract the carrion-eaters for easy despatch, I would say. Quiaff?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 November 2014, 17:36:52
Worktroll said no dice(pun not intended, but it works so well, doesn't it?)since I received them in a trade, but if I had made them myself, all would be kosher.

Makes sense. The sticking point with stuff like this is usually distribution. If you made it yourself with your own hands(or a 3-d printer you personally own), then all would be good. The moment it is created by one person and passes into the ownership of another(whether made on commission, sold, or even as a gift), it becomes distributed, and no longer acceptable.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 16 November 2014, 06:36:18
Using the remains of our last kill to attract the carrion-eaters for easy despatch, I would say. Quiaff?

AFF !
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 November 2014, 19:54:11
Using the remains of our last kill to attract the carrion-eaters for easy despatch, I would say. Quiaff?

Tsk, I say, tsk.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 16 November 2014, 19:57:23
Brothers and sisters, I remain amused at how important it is to the lesser Clans to hang around our haunt. You'd think they had better things to do, than to spend their days apipng their betters ... perhaps they cover their embarrasment by trying to taunt us, while hoping secretly that some of our awesomeness will rub off on them by association, quiaff?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 November 2014, 20:01:01
Neg, we grant you some of our awesomeness because we simply have too much of our own.  Plus harassing Green Turkeys is fun ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 16 November 2014, 20:20:38
SOmeone needs to send the cold bird back to the sibko; its grammar is sadly deficient. It used the words "awesomeness" about Clan Snow Raven - a meaningless conjugation.

(And you get one free reply, Jaim the poster, and then we'd better stop lest we end up moved to the Hall ... :D )
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 November 2014, 20:27:44
Heh. Snow Ravens are awesome, we use white hats and black hats interchangeably (a good thing because it's COLD).

But yes, we don't want to go to the Hall.  'Tis a silly place.

On a relevant note, anyone read 'Sorrow of Eden' yet? Insert shameless plug here  O:-)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 16 November 2014, 20:28:28
Brothers and sisters, I remain amused at how important it is to the lesser Clans to hang around our haunt. You'd think they had better things to do, than to spend their days apipng their betters ... perhaps they cover their embarrasment by trying to taunt us, while hoping secretly that some of our awesomeness will rub off on them by association, quiaff?

Indeed, it would appear our milkshake brings all the surats to the circle of equals.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 16 November 2014, 20:55:54
Heh. Snow Ravens are awesome, we use white hats and black hats interchangeably (a good thing because it's COLD).

But yes, we don't want to go to the Hall.  'Tis a silly place.

On a relevant note, anyone read 'Sorrow of Eden' yet? Insert shameless plug here  O:-)

I waffle back and forth between the Ravens and the Sharkfoxes on my favorite Clan in the Inner Sphere.  Ravens are definitely awesome.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 16 November 2014, 21:07:24
Okay, let's go green for a bit - for Falcons, who would buy into the Mongol doctrine?

I confess my (OC) previous allegiances to the Smoke Jaguars and Ice Hellions, so for me (OC) it is a logical extension. IC, in that era, I see it as being (in most cases) a reaction to the way the universe - including Spheroids and other Clans - failed to play "fair" by Falcon interpretation of honour and behaviour. So that eventually all that frustration comes out as "Okay, play it your way. No. More. Mister. Nice. Guy."

So I would be there behind Malvina. How speak you, trothkin?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 November 2014, 21:13:09
I can understand the appeal of the Falcon version of the Mongol doctrine, but were I a Falcon warrior at the time I'd fight it tooth and nail.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 16 November 2014, 21:17:31
Okay, let's go green for a bit - for Falcons, who would buy into the Mongol doctrine?

I confess my (OC) previous allegiances to the Smoke Jaguars and Ice Hellions, so for me (OC) it is a logical extension. IC, in that era, I see it as being (in most cases) a reaction to the way the universe - including Spheroids and other Clans - failed to play "fair" by Falcon interpretation of honour and behaviour. So that eventually all that frustration comes out as "Okay, play it your way. No. More. Mister. Nice. Guy."

So I would be there behind Malvina. How speak you, trothkin?

This is actually an interesting question, even for non-Falcons.  In the long term, there shouldn't be any reason this sort of behavior is sustainable.  Either the Falcons will fatigue themselves, and get picked off while they're weak, or other factions will essentially go, "Hey, it could be us next if we don't do something about these guys."  From that standpoint, the current Falcon strategy seems to be self-defeating.

But the thing is, they're WINNING.  And Malvina Hazen doesn't tolerate disagreement well.  Do you REALLY want to be the Falcon to try to oppose her, particularly when it seems like, "Hey, she's getting crap done, we may actually make it to Terra"?

All in all, I am curious to see where this goes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 16 November 2014, 21:24:58
I think trials within the clan as well as trials with other honorable clan units(there are a few) should adhere to clan tradition as much as possible. 

When we are fighting anyone else, we shouldn't be hamstringing ourselves with bidding.  We should attack with everything on hand.  However we do need to show restraint in battle.  Conquering a planet does us no good if we level the infrastructure and have the entire populous against us.  Speaking of the populous, I believe we should use a softer touch.  We can not advance if we are constantly putting out fires in our back end.

Malvina is winning us battles, but she will not win us the war.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 16 November 2014, 21:29:05
I'm fine with the Mongol Doctrine, but hate that Malvina Hazen turns it against her own Clan.

"Do what we say, or we'll kill a couple billion or so of you and keep doing it until you do what we say", is a concept that even the most ignorant Spheroid can grasp.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 17 November 2014, 12:50:49
I would like to see a modified Mongol doctrine.  Or in other words, maintain the trial system when engaging other clans, but not when fighting barbarians.  It is important for the clan to recognize that when fighting against barbarians, these practices do more harm than good.  When fighting barbarians, the batchall (“what forces defend x”) should be replaced with intel gathered by the watch.  But bidding by commanders should still happen. 

I don’t support the terror tactics of Malvina.  The clan should stick to the doctrine that damage to civilians and their infrastructure should be minimized – which is a staple of the clan way.  Civilian uprisings have never been a real problem for the clan anyway.  Also, Malvina is not really Jade Falcon.  Her goal of destroying mankind means that she is just using the Jade Falcons. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Adgar76 on 17 November 2014, 15:31:37
Also, Malvina is not really Jade Falcon.  Her goal of destroying mankind means that she is just using the Jade Falcons. 

Hey, but she would destroy her own Clan last! Surely, that must count for something, right?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 17 November 2014, 15:45:25
Well, she did renounce her Jade Falcon....ship? after Aleksandr died.  Malthus was actually the one that convinced her to take over the clan.  Not that a killer like her would ever know how to function within society.  She was always a monster, but under his guidance Malthus created a real problem.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 17 November 2014, 18:32:44
for Falcons, who would buy into the Mongol doctrine?
Maybe it's a little obvious but I am 100% Mongol.
In the long term, there shouldn't be any reason this sort of behavior is sustainable.
By "this behavior" do you mean the Mongol Doctrine or crashing space ships into planets? I admit, this is a rhetorical question -- posed because there is such a bad habit around here of demeaning Malvina and the Mongols.
I would like to see a modified Mongol doctrine.  Or in other words, maintain the trial system when engaging other clans, but not when fighting barbarians.
Trouble is, Fighting other clans is sometimes the same thing as fighting barbarians.
Also, Malvina is not really Jade Falcon.
Denial won't help. Actually, those three words neatly sum up the Mongol movement vis-a-vis Clan history up to 3145.
Malthus created a real problem.
Beckett was one of those pathetic Falcons that want to rule as puppeteers but are actually out of touch. Truth be told, Malvina is riding the crest of history. Beckett's machinations and her own steel will contribute of course but the important thing is she has tapped into a deep truth about CJF's history and current position.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 17 November 2014, 21:03:48
The Bears have effectively employed Elementals for a Century and have used light striker and harasser Trinaries and Stars to deploy them in hordes for just as long. This horde of warriors is not unbeatable, but with Malvina's outright disregard for any civilized rules of war (which the Clans have a couple) seems her bent on a warpath. Now if we all wanted to keep our skins as Falcon warriors we would go with it, or we'd be in the next Emerald Talon. That being said I would not agree with the almost Annihilation level of her conflicts. The whole barbarian is just another level of questionable activities, because are they being civilized when they orbital bombard and chemically assault planets? I'd support Aleksander Hazen without a doubt, his sister I'd support then find the cluster nearest to the Periphery to command and make myself real unnoticeable.

Just my two cents.

Also trying to update a Wakazashi, any recommendations?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 17 November 2014, 21:45:43
Speaking as a long-term Falcon fan, I love it. Mongol doctrine is taking the crazy that is inherent in being Jade Falcon and embracing it, turning it up to it's fullest and running with it. And the fact that Malvina has added more worlds to the Falcon OZ in a few years then all prior Khans had since '52 seems to suggest there's something working there.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Railan Sradac on 18 November 2014, 03:39:11
Though I consider myself a non-Mongol Horse, in my more sociopathic moments I can definitely feel the rush of the Mongol Doctrine. There's something about its high-speed take-no-prisoners brutality that reminds me of the first Clan Invasion without the posturing and politicking. No complicated false-flag operations or deceptive bidding, it's all about momentum and force and fire and crushing their will and ability to strike back and I love it. Sure, it's only a matter of time before the other Clans retaliate and bring it all crashing down (I'm betting on the Bears stabbing Mal in the back, but that might be my "friggin' Bears always win" bias showing), but you'll burn like a supernova until they do.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 18 November 2014, 04:51:45
Since Malvina is leading her Clan far from what her predecessors considered to be Jade Falcon, when is she going to declare a Trial of Possession for the Clan name of 'Wolf'?   >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 18 November 2014, 10:22:42
By "this behavior" do you mean the Mongol Doctrine or crashing space ships into planets? I admit, this is a rhetorical question -- posed because there is such a bad habit around here of demeaning Malvina and the Mongols.

Gah!  It was a crippled ship!  People act like she signed the Emerald Talon up for lawn dart duty on a whim.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 18 November 2014, 18:16:37
The whole barbarian is just another level of questionable activities, because are they being civilized when they orbital bombard and chemically assault planets?
The question is not whether CJF can afford to be civilized -- that question has been definitively settled. The answer is no.
Gah!  It was a crippled ship!  People act like she signed the Emerald Talon up for lawn dart duty on a whim.
I totally agree.
when is she going to declare a Trial of Possession for the Clan name of 'Wolf'?
Wow right for the jugular.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 18 November 2014, 20:42:26
By "this behavior" do you mean the Mongol Doctrine or crashing space ships into planets? I admit, this is a rhetorical question -- posed because there is such a bad habit around here of demeaning Malvina and the Mongols.

Mostly I meant the headlong sprint, but I do get your meaning.

As much as I'm not a fan of the Falcons (Kael Pershaw excepted, as he is basically the coolest thing in the franchise), I am enjoying this "we're taking the gloves off" stage of the Falcons.  It is interesting, and it does bring in a lot of interesting discussion.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 18 November 2014, 20:52:33
As much as I'm not a fan of the Falcons (Kael Pershaw excepted, as he is basically the coolest thing in the franchise), I am enjoying this "we're taking the gloves off" stage of the Falcons.  It is interesting, and it does bring in a lot of interesting discussion.

They reached that stage during the Jihad.  Malvina is going beyond that stage towards Amaris level conduct.  Pretty soon the Falcons will have hostages leading the way as they advance on enemy positions.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 18 November 2014, 20:55:42
They reached that stage during the Jihad.  Malvina is going beyond that stage towards Amaris level conduct.  Pretty soon the Falcons will have hostages leading the way as they advance on enemy positions.

Perhaps I should've said them going into Pants-Crapping Insanity was interesting instead.   :D

As dirty as it makes me feel to say it, at this point I'm rooting for Clan Insanity Falcon over the Wolves. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 18 November 2014, 21:49:07
The Mongol Falcons (aka Insanity Falcons, fair enough ;) ) have the whole concentration of focus I liked about the early Jaguars. Might is right, and if it isn't, use more.

And IMHO, it is very Clan to want to live fast, defeat many, hear the lamentation of their families, die young, and leave a trail of devastated planets behind you. None of this caring-sharing Warden business.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 18 November 2014, 22:51:53
The Mongol Falcons (aka Insanity Falcons, fair enough ;) ) have the whole concentration of focus I liked about the early Jaguars. Might is right, and if it isn't enough, use more.

And IMHO, it is very Clan to want to live fast, defeat many, hear the lamentation of their families, die young, and leave a trail of devastated planets behind you. None of this caring-sharing Warden business.

Corrected.  Who cares whether might is right or not just use it!   >:D  If you are listening to the lamentation of their families then you are a slacker not worthy of being called Clan!  You should already have moved on by the time they started lamenting and be causing more death and destruction!   >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 18 November 2014, 23:07:45
Sure you are not an Ice Hellion, Archangel? :D Sometimes you just need to take time to smell the roses listen to the lamentations of the defeated. Just to remind yourself of what losers look like   O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 19 November 2014, 00:10:45
Sure you are not an Ice Hellion, Archangel? :D Sometimes you just need to take time to smell the roses listen to the lamentations of the defeated. Just to remind yourself of what losers look like   O0

We KNOW what losers look like. We took a whole bunch of worlds from them in 3049-52.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 19 November 2014, 00:27:02
We KNOW what losers look like. We took a whole bunch of worlds from them in 3049-52.

The Lyrans aren't losers.  They're...winning impaired.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 November 2014, 00:52:01
The Lyrans aren't losers.  They're...winning impaired.

If my sig bar weren't full already... ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 19 November 2014, 03:42:45
Sure you are not an Ice Hellion, Archangel? :D Sometimes you just need to take time to smell the roses listen to the lamentations of the defeated. Just to remind yourself of what losers look like   O0

The problem with that is that the stench of defeat gets everywhere and unfortunately easily overwhelms the sweet smell of victory.   ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: haesslich on 19 November 2014, 10:44:05
The Lyrans aren't losers.  They're...winning impaired.

They explains Katherine...

I do wonder when the Falcons will falter: I don't see them able to keep up this pace forever... and whether they crush Stone and Terra before they do.

Or if they nuke it, just to see how the other clans react.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 19 November 2014, 13:36:39
BT has a pretty clear history and “morality” (if it can be called that).  Factions, other than great houses in the succession wars, that participate in total warfare, are declared evil, ganged-up-on and annihilated.  The end is near for the JFs.  Of course without us, who would contain the evil of the wolves? 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 19 November 2014, 15:54:59
If my sig bar weren't full already... ;D

Mine isn't and that needs to be in a sig so I am so having it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 November 2014, 18:06:43
I admit a certain level of disspointment on hearing that the Full Moon had been sold for scrap. I was hoping the Falcons had blown it up instead.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 19 November 2014, 18:08:25
The Jade Falcons have already suffered two big setbacks at Tharkad and Hesperus II.  Combined with her other "activities", those defeats along with her other actions have cost her the support of her cannon fodder...err...allies, Clan Hell's Horses.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 November 2014, 18:28:23
I admit a certain level of disspointment on hearing that the Full Moon had been sold for scrap. I was hoping the Falcons had blown it up instead.

When did that happen?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 19 November 2014, 19:17:22
The Jade Falcons have already suffered two big setbacks at Tharkad and Hesperus II.  Combined with her other "activities", those defeats along with her other actions have cost her the support of her cannon fodder...err...allies, Clan Hell's Horses.

As the chief proponent of ablative reconnaisance ("Send out the cheap VTOLs, then where you see smoke from burning wreckage you know where the enemy is"), I wholeheartedly endorsed Malvina's use of ablative allies.

Fletch, throw yourself between me and those gauss rounds again, if you please?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 20 November 2014, 00:17:06
As the chief proponent of ablative reconnaisance ("Send out the cheap VTOLs, then where you see smoke from burning wreckage you know where the enemy is"), I wholeheartedly endorsed Malvina's use of ablative allies.

Fletch, throw yourself between me and those gauss rounds again, if you please?

Nice knowing ya, Fletch!

(Also, can the phrase "ablative allies" show up in a canon work somewhere?  Because it's REALLY awesome!)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 20 November 2014, 01:12:14
Nice knowing ya, Fletch!

(Also, can the phrase "ablative allies" show up in a canon work somewhere?  Because it's REALLY awesome!)

Why did I pick a Hellbringer ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 20 November 2014, 01:21:44
Why did I pick a Hellbringer ...

Why WOULDN'T you pick a Hellbringer?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 20 November 2014, 01:25:07
Why WOULDN'T you pick a Hellbringer?

Style points before armour  O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 November 2014, 01:28:21
"The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls" - Nightsky
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 20 November 2014, 09:27:37
Hellbringer never disappoints.  It may go down, but it always gets the job done.   A truly underrated mech.  I especially like the A and E configurations, though I have yet to try the E. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 20 November 2014, 10:09:21
I remember one of the first times my group got together to play.  I was all hyped to use a loki because it was such an awesome mech.  Once I looked at the armor diagram I quickly started to question where and how I had decided it was an awesome mech.  ???
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 20 November 2014, 10:39:47
No doubt it’s under-armored.  But it’s built on the same philosophy as the Kit Fox.  The best defense is a strong offense.   You are supposed to use its incredible firepower to overwhelm the enemy so fast they don’t have time to take advantage of your thin armor.  Just don’t use the prime config.  It’s too under heat-sinked to do this. 

I was a bit disappointed that the Dark Age variant didn't take advantage of the opportunity to install modular armor to alleviate the criticisms. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 November 2014, 11:22:02
I've never understood the hate for the Prime. It's a fast pair of headcappers that are boosted by a TarComp and Probe, and protected by ECM and AMS. What's not to love? Okay, you have to maintain your fire discipline to avoid melting, but that just serves to drive down the BV! :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: ThatPirateGuy on 20 November 2014, 15:33:21
I've never understood the hate for the Prime. It's a fast pair of headcappers that are boosted by a TarComp and Probe, and protected by ECM and AMS. What's not to love? Okay, you have to maintain your fire discipline to avoid melting, but that just serves to drive down the BV! :)

Wait a mech with good long range damage, good speed, a targeting computer for picking out weakened locations, bad armor, and not enough heat sinks.

I want to marry that mech. The only thing that could make me like it more if it was ammo dependent without enough ammo.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 20 November 2014, 15:56:34
The loki.  For when you absolutely positively need something to blame your lose on.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 November 2014, 16:57:39
The loki.  For when you absolutely positively need something to blame your lose on.

*cough* Hellbringer *cough*
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 November 2014, 17:24:01
Okay, here's another discussion. As proud and true Falcons, what is your emotional favourite 'Mech in a weight class, and why?

For the heavies, give me a Summoner C. This is my boom stick. Okay, I'm not the most tactically sound player - "hey diddle diddle, straight down the middle" is my forte - and this 'Mech plays to that. Enough mobility and armour to get into trouble, and a large gun to get me out of it. Let us face it, Trothkin, the Summoner C is what the Lyrans would like to have in their recon lances, quiaff?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 November 2014, 17:42:31
Medium for me and specifically the Stormcrow B, happiness is getting behind someone and managing to double tap the ultra 20 into the centre rear torso.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 20 November 2014, 17:47:01
Thor D. I love its combination of mobility and accuracy, and it's ability to scoot around and act as a highly mobile sniper. It's never once done me wrong, and I've had nothing but success with it. It's ability to reach out and touch someone, even with an 'average' Clan gunner is impressive.

As you can imagine, Thor II D is having a similar effect
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 November 2014, 18:16:54
Thor D.

There you go then!
(http://www.solaris7.com/files/members/602/Summoner_D.JPG)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 20 November 2014, 20:12:02
Summoner D.  The Summoner is my favorite 'Mech and the D is my favorite canon variant.  The Grand Summoner and the Thunderbolt IIC are a pretty close second and third.  The extra IHLL on the Thunderbolt IIC relegates it to third for me

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 20 November 2014, 23:15:24
Okay, here's another discussion. As proud and true Falcons, what is your emotional favourite 'Mech in a weight class, and why?

For the heavies, give me a Summoner C. This is my boom stick. Okay, I'm not the most tactically sound player - "hey diddle diddle, straight down the middle" is my forte - and this 'Mech plays to that. Enough mobility and armour to get into trouble, and a large gun to get me out of it. Let us face it, Trothkin, the Summoner C is what the Lyrans would like to have in their recon lances, quiaff?

Not a Falcon, but there are a whole ton of Falcon Mechs I love (most of them for aesthetic reasons, but hey!)

Summoner, Mad Dog, Hellbringer, Turkina, Kit Fox...all mechs that I love!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 November 2014, 23:28:57
Not a Falcon, but there are a whole ton of Falcon Mechs I love (most of them for aesthetic reasons, but hey!)

Summoner, Mad Dog, Hellbringer, Turkina, Kit Fox...all mechs that I love!

Methinks we should start a round of Harvest Trials ...  ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 21 November 2014, 00:47:15
My favourite:

(http://www.quirkyscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Explosion-Image-by-US-Department-of-Defense.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 21 November 2014, 00:51:48
My favourite:

(http://www.quirkyscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Explosion-Image-by-US-Department-of-Defense.jpg)

Of course you like the Hellbringer, the Horses invented the damn thing.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 21 November 2014, 00:54:10
Of course you like the Hellbringer, the Horses invented the damn thing.

LOL!    ;D



Brilliant!   [applause]
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 21 November 2014, 01:33:08
My favourite:

Fletch you need to stop standing between Worktroll and those incoming Gauss rounds.  The merchant caste is getting tired of constantly replacing your Hellbringers.   ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 21 November 2014, 01:33:27
Of course you like the Hellbringer, the Horses invented the damn thing.

And failed to hold it ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 21 November 2014, 04:44:30
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64565223/Fletch.png)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 22 November 2014, 02:46:20
from a writers point of view, the Wolves and the Falcons have been at each others throats for a long time...post golden century and more 3000 AD plus ? (feel free to correct), fast forward to 3145 AD plus in timeline, the evolution of both factions, including massive territory shifts and gains since the start of the Clan Invasion (IE Wolf Empire, "Malvina's OZ" expansion, seems to be setting the two up for a massive show down...almost as, it started with those two, and it will "end" with those two   
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 22 November 2014, 11:55:47
from a writers point of view, the Wolves and the Falcons have been at each others throats for a long time...post golden century and more 3000 AD plus ? (feel free to correct), fast forward to 3145 AD plus in timeline, the evolution of both factions, including massive territory shifts and gains since the start of the Clan Invasion (IE Wolf Empire, "Malvina's OZ" expansion, seems to be setting the two up for a massive show down...almost as, it started with those two, and it will "end" with those two   

Agreed.  Wolf/Falcon conflict has been building ever since the Wolf Clan and Jade Falcon sourcebooks. 

I look forward to seeing what happens.  Only one faction can control Terra, and I don't see either the Falcons or the Wolves allowing the other to have an easy time of conquering the home world of humanity. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 22 November 2014, 12:32:12
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I still want to see this.

1) wolves take terra
2) Malvina throws a hissy and employs a scorched earth policy on terra rendering the planet uninhabitable.  For the first time in man's history, the umbilical cord is cut.
3) Someone in the falcons decides enough is enough and she's taken out.  Further power struggles are cut short as the falcons find themselves on the defensive from almost everyone.
4) Falcons lose some territory (mostly from the upper end of the map), but survives.  With so many major factions already in all out war the most they can really do is throw token forces at the falcons.

In the more distant future with earth no longer in the picture, people start looking outward.  Maybe a few start wondering why we haven't heard anything from the home world clans in awhile.   The inner sphere still sees it's share of large conflicts while the outer sphere sees a lance of mechs holding whole planet colony.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 22 November 2014, 12:53:26
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I still want to see this.

1) wolves take terra
2) Malvina throws a hissy and employs a scorched earth policy on terra rendering the planet uninhabitable.  For the first time in man's history, the umbilical cord is cut.
3) Someone in the falcons decides enough is enough and she's taken out.  Further power struggles are cut short as the falcons find themselves on the defensive from almost everyone.
4) Falcons lose some territory (mostly from the upper end of the map), but survives.  With so many major factions already in all out war the most they can really do is throw token forces at the falcons.

In the more distant future with earth no longer in the picture, people start looking outward.  Maybe a few start wondering why we haven't heard anything from the home world clans in awhile.   The inner sphere still sees it's share of large conflicts while the outer sphere sees a lance of mechs holding whole planet colony.

On the whole, I'm a fan of more "Exploration" based scenarios.  The only trouble is, if you go in certain directions, you don't run into anyone to fight with your big stompy robots!

But yeah, I am in favor of the general idea of your scenario here.  The Falcon/Wolf Rivalry HAS always been a big part of the game, and I feel like it deserves a massive blowup.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 22 November 2014, 13:09:17
On the whole, I'm a fan of more "Exploration" based scenarios.  The only trouble is, if you go in certain directions, you don't run into anyone to fight with your big stompy robots!

You might not have anyone to fight when you first find the planet, but you will once others find out you have it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 22 November 2014, 13:18:12
You might not have anyone to fight when you first find the planet, but you will once others find out you have it.

Raven:  "Hey guys, you'll never guess what we found!  A planet made ENTIRELY OF BACON!"
Sharkfox:  "I CHALLENGE YOU TO A TRIAL OF POSSESSION FOR THE BACON PLANET!"
Falcon:  "Neg!  I SHALL TURN PLANET BACON BROWN, CRISPY, AND DELICIOUS FOR THE GLORY OF THE FALCONS!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 22 November 2014, 14:11:27
Falcon:  "Neg!  I SHALL TURN PLANET BACON BROWN, CRISPY, AND DELICIOUS FOR THE GLORY OF THE FALCONS!"

Seyla!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: HuronWarrior on 10 December 2014, 10:31:28
So I'm considering adding a Clan as a part of my collection, I want to pick a favorite and I already have one bird-related faction as my main.

Green Pigeons, sell me on your clan. What makes you love it so? To me, from what I know of them, the Falcons seem like the quintessential clan: strong warriors, proactive crusader mindset, and set up to fight Lyrans all day, 'err day.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 12 December 2014, 15:03:55
Hi, Jade Falcon thread! Been a while. I'm curious about SaKhan Ryan Pryde. Do we know anything about him? Specifically, I'm wondering if A) he's closely related to Bryan Pryde and B) it's likely that in a few years we'll see a "Yan Pryde".

Also, heavy 'Mech, Flamberge 3. Tolerate no substitutes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 12 December 2014, 15:46:42
As far as I know he’s just a name.  I can't find any references to him in FM 3145 and ER 3145.  He’s probably a diehard mongol that was hand-picked by Malvina from among her Delta Galaxy.  But we really don’t know anything about him.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 12 December 2014, 20:52:28
So I'm considering adding a Clan as a part of my collection, I want to pick a favorite and I already have one bird-related faction as my main.

Green Pigeons, sell me on your clan. What makes you love it so? To me, from what I know of them, the Falcons seem like the quintessential clan: strong warriors, proactive crusader mindset, and set up to fight Lyrans all day, 'err day.

Except they're generally not the best at everything, usually falling into the "second or third best" category giving them a massive chip on their shoulder.  They're also proof that you can excel despite the Way of the Clans rather than by ignoring or flouting it.  The tactics and ideas that made Aidan Pryde a standout are sort of SOP among the Wolves, but he did it without ever bypassing, betraying or ignoring the rules like Ulric, Phelan or Natasha.  The Falcons are cunning merchants without having to resort to the "Warrior/Merchant" mindset of the Sharks/Foxes.  They've conquered and rule an invasion corridor without having to fall back on the appeasement and assimilation tactics of the Ghost Bears, Snow Ravens or Nova Cats.

To be Jade Falcon is to realize that you will always have to work twice as hard to get half the respect that other Clans get, yet being mostly okay with that because you know you haven't betrayed the Founder's vision or ideals like the rest of your dezgra brethren.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 12 December 2014, 21:00:50
Except they're generally not the best at everything, usually falling into the "second or third best" category giving them a massive chip on their shoulder.  They're also proof that you can excel despite the Way of the Clans rather than by ignoring or flouting it.  The tactics and ideas that made Aidan Pryde a standout are sort of SOP among the Wolves, but he did it without ever bypassing, betraying or ignoring the rules like Ulric, Phelan or Natasha.  The Falcons are cunning merchants without having to resort to the "Warrior/Merchant" mindset of the Sharks/Foxes.  They've conquered and rule an invasion corridor without having to fall back on the appeasement and assimilation tactics of the Ghost Bears, Snow Ravens or Nova Cats.

To be Jade Falcon is to realize that you will always have to work twice as hard to get half the respect that other Clans get, yet being mostly okay with that because you know you haven't betrayed the Founder's vision or ideals like the rest of your dezgra brethren.

And whine incessantly when you don't get your way.

I'm basing this off the entry in FM: Crusader Clans.  Seriously, the Falcons come off as SO whiny in that.  It felt like every other line was "but...but...IT'S NOT FAIR!"

(Ah well, you guys at least have Kael Pershaw.  Who is the BEST character.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 12 December 2014, 21:05:18
And whine incessantly when you don't get your way.

I'm basing this off the entry in FM: Crusader Clans.  Seriously, the Falcons come off as SO whiny in that.  It felt like every other line was "but...but...IT'S NOT FAIR!"

(Ah well, you guys at least have Kael Pershaw.  Who is the BEST character.)

While I said that you have to be okay with it, I never said that you had to LIKE it or be quiet about it.  We definitely want everyone to know how put upon we are and how very tired we are of carrying the rest of your sorry carcasses...   ::)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 12 December 2014, 21:12:26
While I said that you have to be okay with it, I never said that you had to LIKE it or be quiet about it.  We definitely want everyone to know how put upon we are and how very tired we are of carrying the rest of your sorry carcasses...   ::)

Clan Jade Falcon:  The One Australian Man that Nick Kerensky Delegated Everything To.

(Bonus points to people who get that).

And how awesome is Kael Pershaw?  I am afraid that, despite being a fictional character, he will one day show up at my house.  I am not afraid that he is going to beat me up and take my wallet.  I am afraid he is going to glare at me menacingly, until my wallet and my pants just magically wind up in his hands, while the video of this occurrence goes straight to Youtube, while he punches out a Battlemech.  THAT'S how awesome Kael Pershaw is.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Railan Sradac on 12 December 2014, 22:36:52
Except they're generally not the best at everything, usually falling into the "second or third best" category giving them a massive chip on their shoulder.  They're also proof that you can excel despite the Way of the Clans rather than by ignoring or flouting it.  The tactics and ideas that made Aidan Pryde a standout are sort of SOP among the Wolves, but he did it without ever bypassing, betraying or ignoring the rules like Ulric, Phelan or Natasha.  The Falcons are cunning merchants without having to resort to the "Warrior/Merchant" mindset of the Sharks/Foxes.  They've conquered and rule an invasion corridor without having to fall back on the appeasement and assimilation tactics of the Ghost Bears, Snow Ravens or Nova Cats.

To be Jade Falcon is to realize that you will always have to work twice as hard to get half the respect that other Clans get, yet being mostly okay with that because you know you haven't betrayed the Founder's vision or ideals like the rest of your dezgra brethren.

Yeah, this is what has always earned the Falcons respect from me. They're not the best at anything, they stick by their arbitrary, ridiculous rules no matter what it costs them and yet they still win, because they are Jade Falcons. A lot of the Clans' superiority complexes manifest by having them be shocked and aghast whenever they actually have to work for something (I'm looking at the Jags right now) but the Falcons understand that they're the best because they work their asses off and bleed for every inch of ground. I am always staggeringly impressed that they are the only Clan in the Inner Sphere that's never assimilated and never given an inch in their convictions.

And then when they decide they've finally had enough of that, when they've had it with being viewed as the Invader Clans' "special little sib", you get Malvina and the Mongols. And the Inner Sphere burns behind them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 December 2014, 22:47:37
Sharkfox:  "I CHALLENGE YOU TO A TRIAL OF POSSESSION FOR THE BACON PLANET!"

Out of context its not as funny. But the delivery, capitalization and timing of this was top notch. I laughed.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 13 December 2014, 00:29:26
Kael Pershaw.  The only clanner to win what was agreed to be an unarmed battle in a circle of equals by shooting his opponent and getting away with it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 13 December 2014, 01:26:20
Kael Pershaw.  The only clanner to win what was agreed to be an unarmed battle in a circle of equals by shooting his opponent and getting away with it.

Well, at least he waited for the battle to start and there was an agreed upon Circle.  Phelan straight up murdered Conal Ward and then drew the Circle around his body...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 13 December 2014, 08:48:21
Kael Pershaw.  The only clanner to win what was agreed to be an unarmed battle in a circle of equals by shooting his opponent and getting away with it.

The agreement was to use only what was on their bodies, he just happened to have a laser pistol grafted into his.
Clan Jade Falcon:  The One Australian Man that Nick Kerensky Delegated Everything To.

(Bonus points to people who get that).


Futureama Hermes takes a break to get his mojo back.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 14 December 2014, 16:11:27
Okay, here's another discussion. As proud and true Falcons, what is your emotional favourite 'Mech in a weight class, and why?

I like Hellbringer F. If used in open terrain it moves 6-7 hexex per turn and can fire everything with little overheat. If stationary Helly can be easly destroyed. It feels like a light mech with two times more weapons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 14 December 2014, 16:17:58
Green Pigeons, sell me on your clan.

Falcons are the bad guys done right, much like House Kurita in late '80. Not space nazi type like Blakists, or Jaguars, that were designed basically to get their asses kicked.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 14 December 2014, 17:38:42
Falcons are the bad guys done right, much like House Kurita in late '80. Not space nazi type like Blakists, or Jaguars, that were designed basically to get their asses kicked.

Well the Falcons are rapidly being turned into a faction meant to get its ass kicked with their extremist Mongol Doctrine.  Devastating several planets on their way to launching their assault on Hesperus II simply because they (I should say she) was furious in the way the Battle of Tharkad turned out because of Wolf intervention?  They are being set up to either be redeemed or destroyed.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 14 December 2014, 19:32:28
Horses and Adders will take care of that; the Falcon arse kicking that is.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 December 2014, 22:54:16
Don't know that the Horses will be around to deliver. And frankly I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Adders or Lions or whatever, oh my!

No, the doom of the Falcons is, and will always be ... the Falcons.

And I wouldn't have it any other way O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 14 December 2014, 23:27:08
Don't know that the Horses will be around to deliver.

Depends what happens with our leadership and/or lack of it in the current timeline.  I am always happy to stand and deliver, even if that is a FWL tactic.

...frankly I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Adders or Lions or whatever, oh my!

Stop teasing Cold1  >:D

No, the doom of the Falcons is, and will always be ... the Falcons.

But how many petty civil wars can you guys have?  Talk about story recycling...  :P
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 December 2014, 23:32:27
But how many petty civil wars can you guys have?  Talk about story recycling...  :P

Face it, only a Falcon is good enough to oppose a Falcon.

(We only did the Lyrans so that the fledgelings got an easy start ...)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 15 December 2014, 00:27:41
Face it, only a Falcon is good enough to oppose a Falcon.

(We only did the Lyrans so that the fledgelings got an easy start ...)

Especially Falcon scientist.  Good thing we gave you some more.  :P
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 15 December 2014, 09:12:03
Black Lanner E is among my favorite.  An ATM 12 on a fast platform.  What’s not to love?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 15 December 2014, 15:45:17
Well the Falcons are rapidly being turned into a faction meant to get its ass kicked with their extremist Mongol Doctrine.  Devastating several planets on their way to launching their assault on Hesperus II simply because they (I should say she) was furious in the way the Battle of Tharkad turned out because of Wolf intervention?  They are being set up to either be redeemed or destroyed.

I believe we deserve more than just that. :( And it would be "let's unite against the Mordor" thing all over again.

And I totally agree: the only faction that should end Falcon story is themselves. Wolves are curently busy beeing ilClan, Bears are enjoying their dominium, Lyrans can't find their ass with both hands without Davions help (and Davions are screwed), home clans will be too scared beeing IS tainted by the Falcon warrior gaze. Seriously, who's left?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 15 December 2014, 17:03:51
Seriously, who's left?

WoB remnants, Wolverines, couple of WoR scientists?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 15 December 2014, 20:35:13
I believe we deserve more than just that. :( And it would be "let's unite against the Mordor" thing all over again.

And I totally agree: the only faction that should end Falcon story is themselves. Wolves are curently busy beeing ilClan, Bears are enjoying their dominium, Lyrans can't find their ass with both hands without Davions help (and Davions are screwed), home clans will be too scared beeing IS tainted by the Falcon warrior gaze. Seriously, who's left?

The Sea Foxes, who have secretly built fifty fully loaded Night Lord's in the Deep Periphery.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 15 December 2014, 21:03:30
With so many factions already wiped out(or close to it) recently, it would be cool to see a redemption story of some kind.  I'd miss the green bird, but Clan Phoenix has a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 15 December 2014, 21:06:58
E. Icaza's description of the Falcons may have done the impossible; it may have changed my mind about the Falcons in general.

When you look at the Falcons as, basically, the Frank Grimes of the Battletech Universe, they suddenly become a whole lot more sympathetic and interesting.  You can basically think of Malvina's rampage as them going, "I DON'T NEED SAFETY GLOVES BECAUSE I'M HOMER SIMPSON!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 15 December 2014, 23:04:52
"I DON'T NEED SAFETY GLOVES BECAUSE I'M HOMER SIMPSON!"

Hence the glow-in-the-dark falcons
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 December 2014, 23:58:56
Question for anyone who has the Falcon Phonebook...

Do you recall what unit (or even jsut what Galaxy) the Atlas II was in? I know there was one, I just don't remember where.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 16 December 2014, 00:19:57
Question for anyone who has the Falcon Phonebook...

Do you recall what unit (or even jsut what Galaxy) the Atlas II was in? I know there was one, I just don't remember where.
I think there might be two in there somewhere but...

Peregrine Galaxy, Peregrine Eyrie Cluster, Binary Alpha, Alpha Beak, Star Captain Divvurn, Atlas II (KIA)

Yeah, y'know, I just got no idea why they don't make books with this level of detail anymore!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 16 December 2014, 01:11:12
Yeah, y'know, I just got no idea why they don't make books with this level of detail anymore!

Two main reasons probably:  costs of producing it outweighs the expected profits (same reason they will stop releasing faction specific sourcebooks) and its a pain to go into such detail only to have the effort be deemed outdated with the next major conflict or next TRO release not to mention people nitpicking how this mech doesn't belong in that type of star, that mech variant is wrong for the star, why does that warrior have a bloodname while that one doesn't, etc.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 16 December 2014, 02:28:12
Two main reasons probably:  costs of producing it outweighs the expected profits (same reason they will stop releasing faction specific sourcebooks) and its a pain to go into such detail only to have the effort be deemed outdated with the next major conflict or next TRO release not to mention people nitpicking how this mech doesn't belong in that type of star, that mech variant is wrong for the star, why does that warrior have a bloodname while that one doesn't, etc.

(I was joking. Going into that level of detail on all the myriad factions and units we've got these days would be insane)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 16 December 2014, 15:34:37
(I was joking. Going into that level of detail on all the myriad factions and units we've got these days would be insane)

Challenge Accepted!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 18 December 2014, 01:12:17
Catching up on the thread:

Quote
Okay, let's go green for a bit - for Falcons, who would buy into the Mongol doctrine?
I have a strained relationship with the Mongol Doctrine. I see its effectiveness but to use it on other Clans and your own Clansmen especially is...unsavory.  Honorless dogs can taste and see that the Mongol Doctrine is bitter. An honorable opponent should be accorded Zellbrigen as befits tradition and skill.

Quote
Okay, here's another discussion. As proud and true Falcons, what is your emotional favourite 'Mech in a weight class, and why?

It used to be the Summoner M, with which I have made the most kills against the most 'mechs. After the 2012 Masters & Minions Tournament at GenCon, the Hellbringer E has claimed that crown. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVEit!  Thanks to my teammates, I was given first pick of isorla for my performance in that match...while wearing that oversized but good Jade Falcon Dress Uniform.  Best thing of that fight was Paul congratulating me on the play while shaking my hand saying, "You're probably the LAST Jade Falcon fan I'll ever shake hands with."  These things are what give the Hellbringer E a nice edge on all others.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 18 December 2014, 01:34:49
Catching up on the thread:
I have a strained relationship with the Mongol Doctrine. I see its effectiveness but to use it on other Clans and your own Clansmen especially is...unsavory.  Honorless dogs can taste and see that the Mongol Doctrine is bitter. An honorable opponent should be accorded Zellbrigen as befits tradition and skill.

As someone who finds the Mongol doctrine emotionally appealing, I have to ask - "who is an honorable opponent?" Surely not the lapdog Wolves, or care Bears. Nor those of the Horses who prefer being saddled ponies. The rime stoats? Hardly. And even within the Clan, there are those who do not deserve the term "honorable".

[OOC - it's a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. The Falcon Way is right. Malvina defines the Falcon Way. If you oppose Malvina, you are not following the Way. Therefore fair game. "If you are not with us, you are against us" writ large with WarShip-sized craters.]
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 18 December 2014, 03:31:33
So the Way is the Way, unless there is another Way which becomes the Way unless those of the Way are able to discredit the Way or find another Way to follow the Way  :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 18 December 2014, 08:39:40
[Keanu] No Way... [/Reeves]
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 18 December 2014, 09:42:56
The rime stoats

The Way is awfully hard to follow without a supplier of harjel.  Or Hellbringer parts.

Do not mind these ramblings of a humble old rime stoat.  ;) The Mongol Doctrine seems like a great way to roll from the supply end of things.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 27 December 2014, 08:41:00
Quick question, what equipment are the Falcons producing in 3050?

I have got a rough list but figured I would ask on here to check I had not missed anything.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 27 December 2014, 16:40:18
Scytha
Visigoth
Elemental BA
Summoner
Hellbringer
Kit Fox


...that's all I have off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 27 December 2014, 18:28:54
Quick question, what equipment are the Falcons producing in 3050?

I have got a rough list but figured I would ask on here to check I had not missed anything.

There's never been a full accounting of clan Homeworld production, and likely never will be either. Trajan Helmer's list is pretty complete, however for what we do explicitly know.

They probably produce the Vixen, Hellhound, Rifleman IIC, Marauder IIC and Kraken based on bits and pieces of info from various (admittedly dubious) sources. Likewise, it's possible that they produce the Vulture and Ryoken, as both of them simply have "various" listed as their manufacturers and are pretty much universal across Clan space.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 27 December 2014, 21:15:48
I've been listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast on the (historical) Mongols and it's been interesting to compare their exploits with the Falcons under Malvina. They've certainly got the unstoppable conquerors thing down, as well as the penchant for thoroughly murdering people who don't surrender when they think they should. The Mongols also had more advanced warfare techniques than a lot of their victims because they'd been fighting China for so long. That's sort of like the Clan's tech advantage, although the Mongols had tactical and strategic brilliance that is sort of the exact opposite of the Clans.

The main thing I found interesting, though, is a point Carlin makes about what makes Genghis Khan's empire so interesting: it survived after he died. Instead of fragmenting after the death of the figure who made it, they had many other effective rulers and went on to even greater conquest.

So, now I'm wondering if that's what we'll see with Malvina. I've been sort of expecting the Falcons to get obliterated after pissing so many people off, but what if that doesn't happen? What if Malvina dies and someone just as effective takes the reins. Malvina differs from Genghis in that he wasn't batshit loco, but the comparison holds in a lot of other ways.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 27 December 2014, 21:28:29
I've been listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast on the (historical) Mongols and it's been interesting to compare their exploits with the Falcons under Malvina.

I had written up a little bit on Malvina before - but I found more similarities to Timur than Genghis.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/novel-and-sourcebook-reviews/bonfire-of-worlds-a-comparison-of-malvina-and-timur/



(http://members.shaw.ca/letts/comp.jpg)

Merciless villain, peasant, ignorant
Of lawful arms or martial discipline!
Pillage and murder are his usual trades:
The slave usurps the glorious name of war.

          — Tamburliane the Great, 1.IV.i (Marlowe)

      Early in his career Timur gained the wounds that gave him the name Timur-i Lenk—Timur the Lame; two arrow wounds to his right arm and right leg. He lost the use of his elbow as well as losing his fourth and fifth fingers.  His hip seized, causing his leg to remain rigid and forever shorter than the left. Biographers such as the 14th century’s Ahmad ibn Arabshah state that Timur became a vengeful monster after these crippling wounds.

      Malvina Hazen also suffered grievous, life-altering injuries to the very same limbs—her right arm and right leg. After a defeat by Republic forces on Skye in 3134 her injured leg, arm and eye were replaced with cybernetic prosthetics. Like Timur, Malvina—already vicious and somewhat unhinged—turned into a sadistic fiend after suffering her injuries.

--------------------

      Near Tashkent in 1365 the forces of Timur and Husayn met an invading force led by the former governor of Mawarannahr, Ilyas Khoja. During the battle a terrific storm began and the battlefield turned to thick mud. Pressing hard in the mired and confused battle, Timur seized the upper hand and signaled for Husayn—nominally his commander—to bring forward his men and finish the enemy. Yet Husayn held back. The Moghul forces rushed to take advantage of this fatal mistake and swarmed through, cutting men down on all sides. Ten thousand were killed. Timur and Husayn fled the battlefield and across the Amu Darya. It was an ignominious ending, to say the least.
      For Timur, who had ambitions on a scale far beyond this small theatre of war, this battle sowed the seeds of doubt into his alliance with Husayn. How reliable was a man who refused to fight alongside his partner in battle when the fighting was at its most critical? In Timur’s mind, he had been betrayed.

          The situation was similar—or so Malvina felt—for the Falcon desant. The three Falcon Galaxies had gained numerous victories and an invaluable foothold in Republic space. However, Khan Jana Pryde held the Falcon touman back. Requests for resupply were ‘essentially unanswered’. Requests for much-needed reinforcements and replacements were met with a trickle of dregs and solahma. Malvina questioned Jana’s ability to lead the Clan and her motives for sending the desant deep into enemy territory.

--------------------

      The alliance between Timur and Husayn had been sealed with the marriage of Timur to Husayn’s sister Aljas. Her death around this time, which represented the final severance of family ties, now looked like a harbinger of destiny.

          This was somewhat mirrored by Malvina’s situation. Her brother Aleksandr’s death at the time of the perceived betrayal removed the only thing grounding her as a Clan warrior. In her mind, this also signified a final severance from Jana’s Jade Falcon proper and represented a harbinger of destiny.

--------------------

      In 1370 Timur rode south over the Amu Darya, his sights set on removing the last obstacle to supreme power in Southern Mawarannahr; Husayn. After a long fight, his former ally was defeated and executed. In deference to the traditions of Genghis Khan, by which only a man of royal blood could aspire to supreme command, Timur installed a puppet Chagatai Khan, Suyurghatmish, as nominal ruler. This was no more than a formality. All knew that power lay with Timur alone. Ahmad ibn Arabshah recorded: ‘Under his sway were ruler and subject alike … and the Khan was in his bondage, like a centipede in the mud …’
      The realities of this power sharing arrangement were underlined in a dramatic ceremony of enthronement where Timur crowned himself imperial ruler of Chagatai.
      Additionally, one of the more important spoils gained by Timur was Saray Mulk-Khanum, the wife of Husayn, who he now made his own. Daughter of Qazan, the last Chagatai Khan of Mawarannahr, she was also a princess of the Genghis line. Taking her as his wife bolstered Timur’s legitimacy. From this point on, he styled himself Timur Gurgan (son-in-law) of the Great Khan.

      Malvina performed a similar feat, defeating and slaying Jana Pryde in personal combat. She installed her fellow Galaxy Commander and advisor, Beckett Malthus, as Khan of Clan Jade Falcon. As with the Chagatai, all knew who held the reins of power despite the title. Here Beckett was very much the ‘Khan in bondage, like a centipede in the mud …’
      Malvina also gave herself a title for her new position, also in homage to the past; Chingis Khan, Emperor of all Mankind.

--------------------

      Timur’s name has gone down in history and legend as a synonym for cruelty. His string of constant battlefield successes and almost inevitable massacres that followed are the hallmark of his legacy in most of the world.
      This is in somewhat of a contrast to his ancestors. Whereas Genghis and his sons also indulged in massacres, these were usually carried out dispassionately and with a coldly calculated purpose—to terrorize foes into submission. Timur’s massacres were more frequent, more obviously sadistic and often served no apparent purpose.
      Historian John Joseph Saunders wrote succinctly: ‘Till the advent of Hitler, Timur stood forth in history as the supreme example of soulless and unproductive militarism’.

      Malvina, as we are all aware, is certainly in this league of cruelty. Like Timur, her savage massacres greatly exceeding in number and in viciousness those contributed by her predecessors.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 03 January 2015, 12:25:25
Thanks Bran. That's why I read this forum in a bus.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 03 January 2015, 12:41:35
I had written up a little bit on Malvina before - but I found more similarities to Timur than Genghis.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/novel-and-sourcebook-reviews/bonfire-of-worlds-a-comparison-of-malvina-and-timur/



(http://members.shaw.ca/letts/comp.jpg)

Merciless villain, peasant, ignorant
Of lawful arms or martial discipline!
Pillage and murder are his usual trades:
The slave usurps the glorious name of war.

          — Tamburliane the Great, 1.IV.i (Marlowe)

      Early in his career Timur gained the wounds that gave him the name Timur-i Lenk—Timur the Lame; two arrow wounds to his right arm and right leg. He lost the use of his elbow as well as losing his fourth and fifth fingers.  His hip seized, causing his leg to remain rigid and forever shorter than the left. Biographers such as the 14th century’s Ahmad ibn Arabshah state that Timur became a vengeful monster after these crippling wounds.

      Malvina Hazen also suffered grievous, life-altering injuries to the very same limbs—her right arm and right leg. After a defeat by Republic forces on Skye in 3134 her injured leg, arm and eye were replaced with cybernetic prosthetics. Like Timur, Malvina—already vicious and somewhat unhinged—turned into a sadistic fiend after suffering her injuries.

--------------------

      Near Tashkent in 1365 the forces of Timur and Husayn met an invading force led by the former governor of Mawarannahr, Ilyas Khoja. During the battle a terrific storm began and the battlefield turned to thick mud. Pressing hard in the mired and confused battle, Timur seized the upper hand and signaled for Husayn—nominally his commander—to bring forward his men and finish the enemy. Yet Husayn held back. The Moghul forces rushed to take advantage of this fatal mistake and swarmed through, cutting men down on all sides. Ten thousand were killed. Timur and Husayn fled the battlefield and across the Amu Darya. It was an ignominious ending, to say the least.
      For Timur, who had ambitions on a scale far beyond this small theatre of war, this battle sowed the seeds of doubt into his alliance with Husayn. How reliable was a man who refused to fight alongside his partner in battle when the fighting was at its most critical? In Timur’s mind, he had been betrayed.

          The situation was similar—or so Malvina felt—for the Falcon desant. The three Falcon Galaxies had gained numerous victories and an invaluable foothold in Republic space. However, Khan Jana Pryde held the Falcon touman back. Requests for resupply were ‘essentially unanswered’. Requests for much-needed reinforcements and replacements were met with a trickle of dregs and solahma. Malvina questioned Jana’s ability to lead the Clan and her motives for sending the desant deep into enemy territory.

--------------------

      The alliance between Timur and Husayn had been sealed with the marriage of Timur to Husayn’s sister Aljas. Her death around this time, which represented the final severance of family ties, now looked like a harbinger of destiny.

          This was somewhat mirrored by Malvina’s situation. Her brother Aleksandr’s death at the time of the perceived betrayal removed the only thing grounding her as a Clan warrior. In her mind, this also signified a final severance from Jana’s Jade Falcon proper and represented a harbinger of destiny.

--------------------

      In 1370 Timur rode south over the Amu Darya, his sights set on removing the last obstacle to supreme power in Southern Mawarannahr; Husayn. After a long fight, his former ally was defeated and executed. In deference to the traditions of Genghis Khan, by which only a man of royal blood could aspire to supreme command, Timur installed a puppet Chagatai Khan, Suyurghatmish, as nominal ruler. This was no more than a formality. All knew that power lay with Timur alone. Ahmad ibn Arabshah recorded: ‘Under his sway were ruler and subject alike … and the Khan was in his bondage, like a centipede in the mud …’
      The realities of this power sharing arrangement were underlined in a dramatic ceremony of enthronement where Timur crowned himself imperial ruler of Chagatai.
      Additionally, one of the more important spoils gained by Timur was Saray Mulk-Khanum, the wife of Husayn, who he now made his own. Daughter of Qazan, the last Chagatai Khan of Mawarannahr, she was also a princess of the Genghis line. Taking her as his wife bolstered Timur’s legitimacy. From this point on, he styled himself Timur Gurgan (son-in-law) of the Great Khan.

      Malvina performed a similar feat, defeating and slaying Jana Pryde in personal combat. She installed her fellow Galaxy Commander and advisor, Beckett Malthus, as Khan of Clan Jade Falcon. As with the Chagatai, all knew who held the reins of power despite the title. Here Beckett was very much the ‘Khan in bondage, like a centipede in the mud …’
      Malvina also gave herself a title for her new position, also in homage to the past; Chingis Khan, Emperor of all Mankind.

--------------------

      Timur’s name has gone down in history and legend as a synonym for cruelty. His string of constant battlefield successes and almost inevitable massacres that followed are the hallmark of his legacy in most of the world.
      This is in somewhat of a contrast to his ancestors. Whereas Genghis and his sons also indulged in massacres, these were usually carried out dispassionately and with a coldly calculated purpose—to terrorize foes into submission. Timur’s massacres were more frequent, more obviously sadistic and often served no apparent purpose.
      Historian John Joseph Saunders wrote succinctly: ‘Till the advent of Hitler, Timur stood forth in history as the supreme example of soulless and unproductive militarism’.

      Malvina, as we are all aware, is certainly in this league of cruelty. Like Timur, her savage massacres greatly exceeding in number and in viciousness those contributed by her predecessors.

Wonderful analysis, Bren.  You're a BT fan and player after my own heart for going the additional km to research and find these parallels that we can be confident that the writers certainly put into their work for us to marvel at and compare. 

Don't mind if I quote it to bring it up to the next page. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 07 January 2015, 21:55:21
So this happened in a recent megamek lark:
Code: [Select]
Graveyard contains:
Jump Platoon (Rifle) (Princess)
Gunnery Skill : Joe Lazo [4] ( 6 hit(s)   )
Kills : 0
Destroyed by Eyrie (Standard) (Weirdo)

...

Partisan Heavy Tank (AC2) (Princess)
Driver : Gabriella Caruso [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by Eyrie (Standard) (Weirdo)

Orion ON1-M (Princess)
Pilot : Pavlushshenka Konarski [4/5] ( 3 hit(s)   )
Kills : 0
Destroyed by Eyrie (Standard) (Weirdo)

AC/2 Carrier (Princess)
Driver : Tom Hami [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by Eyrie (Standard) (Weirdo)

Motorized Platoon (LRM) (Princess)
Gunnery Skill : Nagore Kotsiopoulos [4] ( 6 hit(s)   )
Kills : 0
Destroyed by Eyrie (Standard) (Weirdo)

...

The following utterly destroyed units are not available for salvage:
Mauler MAL-C (Princess)
Pilot : Sharon Mncio [4/5] ( 6 hit(s)   )
Kills : 0
Destroyed by Eyrie (Standard) (Weirdo)

I know fights against the bot are hardly worth bragging about, but most of those kills were made in the middle of a pitched firefight, and aside from the Mauler, they were unassisted. (The Mauler had some damage recieved the turn prior to death from a Gyrfalcon 3.)

Long story short, I think the Eyrie is fast becoming one of my favorite backstabbers in Clan service... >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 08 January 2015, 03:07:27
Oh, man, yes. The Eyrie is superb. It's also a wonderful insurance policy against people who think reflective armor will save them from the Clans.

"Well, yes, most of my armament is ineffective against you, but didn't you have two legs?"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 08 January 2015, 03:28:59
They Eyrie is a psychotic little monster who punches* well above its weight. The little bastard can put out over fourty points of damage in innumerable tiny clusters at point blank range, and that's before its overpowered kick of death.

Don't mess with it, man! That stuff's lethal!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 09 January 2015, 03:47:46
Malvina's little play time is over, time for tradition to kill her off, (before she endangers the very Clan) <cringes>
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 09 January 2015, 08:57:39
Malvina's little play time is over, time for tradition to kill her off, (before she endangers the very Clan) <cringes>

Too late.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 09 January 2015, 21:45:59
In a MM game this morning, I had an Eyrie trash a fresh Tundra Wolf in one round. The little monster jumped behind it and managed to set off its ammo as well as landing a head hit. The Tundra's pilot was knocked out and never woke up.

I still kicked it to be sure
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 12 January 2015, 10:51:06
In a MM game this morning, I had an Eyrie trash a fresh Tundra Wolf in one round. The little monster jumped behind it and managed to set off its ammo as well as landing a head hit. The Tundra's pilot was knocked out and never woke up.

I still kicked it to be sure

Even if it dies from it, give it a swift kick anyway. It's a Wolf, it deserves a little extra love-tap.  ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 January 2015, 18:20:42
Even if it dies from it, give it a swift kick anyway. It's a Wolf, it deserves a little extra love-tap.  ^-^

But of course.

So what ammo loadout do people prefer on the Eyrie? It has only two tons of ATM ammo, so you can't do the usual "ton of each ATM type". I'd imagine you would also allways have at least one ton of HE for it's point-blank backstabbing hell (and what my 40+ points of damage estimate is based on), but what about the other?

A part of me figures that it'd be rare to burn through all 20 shots of HE in one battle before the fight was over or the thing died, but you never know...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 12 January 2015, 23:26:09
I always do one each of HE and ER. I often have them guarding Gyrfalcons so ER lets them join in on the pelting-foes-from-afar fun, and then HE is essential for the sort of backstabbing that the Eyrie is actually for.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 January 2015, 00:27:46
Ditto. Since I've been grouping them with Gyralfcons as well, a ton of ER lets them contribute at similar range, and the ton of HE means EVERYTHING has to fear getting backstabbed. >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 13 January 2015, 10:29:28
Since I like to use it as a close-combat machine, I start with standard ammo as it bum-rushes, then switch to HE. The ER just doesn't do enough damage to really justify bringing it along, to me.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 18 January 2015, 13:15:53
How do you pronounce "Turkina?" Turkey-na?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 18 January 2015, 13:20:28
I say Tur-kee-nuh. Or if referring to the 'mech, Toy-let-bohl.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 18 January 2015, 13:24:40
Sweet!  I pronounce them both correctly.  ;)  Time to reward myself with some cold pizza.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 18 January 2015, 15:41:14
Sweet!  I pronounce them both correctly.  ;)  Time to reward myself with some cold pizza.

Uh...was that YOUR pizza?  Umm...sorry.

(Seriously, I was eating cold pizza as I read this post.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 18 January 2015, 16:07:32
It's OK, the IlKhan ruled that there will be no more trials over cold pizza at my house anymore.  We can share.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: WarGod on 09 February 2015, 12:57:54
so for the hive mind here.  I'm thinking of building a jade falcon trinary.  Any suggestions other then summoner, and hell bringers?

Post revival , early jihad
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 09 February 2015, 13:10:57
Any given era?

If you like LRMs, the Uller and Puma missile configs are some pf the most efficient 'mech platforms in the game, when you look at them in terms of missiles per BV. Using them in a support role like that can also help compensate for their light armor.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 09 February 2015, 17:18:33
Flamberge - it looks cool, though its configurations leave a little to be desired. 

Black Lanner E - I’m a big fan of this one.  I can’t get enough ATMs. 

Cougar prime – another solid JF mech.  Despite being a light mech, it’s too slow for recon work.  Use it as a pocket medium. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 10 February 2015, 11:37:42
I'm always eager to suggest the Fire Falcon.  Nothing more Jade Falcon than a glass cannon that isn't all that fast.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 11 February 2015, 11:04:39
Is anyone else a bit like me when it comes to the Turkina Prime, a bit sad that its not an AC and PPC in each arm rather than paired AC's and paired PPCs.  Don't know why, just an asthetic thing I guess.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 February 2015, 01:24:35
No, I'm with you. The Turkina - should have been named after the feral no-necked jade scrote-turtle of the Strana Mechty swamps.

It's a beast of a design in the right circumstances, but there ain't nothing graceful or birlike about it.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 12 February 2015, 04:04:16
Considering its popularity within the Falcons and their new BIG BIRD design asethetic one could imagine that their Sudaten plant could re-work the Turkina so it looks less like a snapping turtle and more graceful and fitting for the Clan's totem animal (IE get it re-drawn).

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 February 2015, 23:24:58
The Black Hawk and Ryoken are both solid force choices, with the former having the advantage that the Falcons are building it in the IS. Both are the sorts of 'Mechs you can justify in any Clan force at all.

Likewise, the Mad Cat is a realtively common 'Mech in Falcon forces, so you could easily fit one in as a break from the normal Thors and Lokis. Also, Vultures, which can again go in just about any Clan force. mmm, side torso explosions. The Night Gyr is another good choice if you're not as worried about having a traditionally Falcon "go fast" force.

If you want a bit of colour (and your warriors to hate you), thrown in a captured Battle Cobra or Crossbow. The former is actually not too bad, and the latter... uh... well... there's an APGR configuration I kind of like? Maybe?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 13 February 2015, 13:46:30
If you want a bit of colour (and your warriors to hate you), thrown in a captured Battle Cobra or Crossbow. The former is actually not too bad, and the latter... uh... well... there's an APGR configuration I kind of like? Maybe?

These are actually good options.  After the Viper ejection from the IS, the Falcons should have plenty of them picked up as salvage.   
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 13 February 2015, 13:57:59
And nothing irks the enemy more than using their own gear against them  >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 14 February 2015, 23:21:50
I just realized that almost everything the Falcons use is a Heavy 'Mech of some kind or another.

The Grand Summoner, Flamberge, Jade Hawk, and Night Gyr are all very competent Heavy 'Mechs.

The Hel is a Heavy that thinks it's an Assault.

The Shrike is an Assault that thinks it's a Heavy.

The Cougar is a light that thinks it's a Heavy.

The Hellbringer is a Heavy that thinks it's a Light.

The Shadow Cat II is a Heavy that thinks it's a Medium.

The Rifleman C 2 is a Heavy that thinks it's a LAM.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 15 February 2015, 05:21:00
I'm still not sure about the Jade Hawk, it seems so hyper specialised in almost all of its variants, and the standard version you have to turn off 3/4 of the things heatsinks to get it working properly :s
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 21 February 2015, 15:12:59

The Rifleman C 2 is a Heavy that thinks it's a LAM.

"I BELIEVE I CAN FLYYYYYYYYYYYY!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 21 February 2015, 15:26:42
"I BELIEVE I CAN FLYYYYYYYYYYYY!"

*SPLAT*

 >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 24 February 2015, 19:58:50
fellow Falcons, I call upon you for a quick historical reference  O0 just to make sure

After the beginning of the Pentagon Worlds Civil War, where Nicholas and the 800 relocated to Strana Mechty to re-arm, the Kerensky Cluster was then preliminarily settled, quiaff ?

Basically for my swtor guild CJF cross over / spin off / conversion, our first RP event is about the Founders of our Clan...

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/challenges-and-gatherings/clan-jade-falcon-(swtor)/ (latest pic can be found at the bottom)

The Clans were founded, in CJF's case, Ironhold HQ and colony was set up...before the retaking of the Pentagon was complete or after it ? IE: The Clans were created on Strana Mechty, armed, then hit the Pentagon, then peace and spoils of war, then each Clan got its homeworld ? Also, the first ship to Ironhold, what was that called, reference the Mechwarrior 2 openning video

Thanks O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 24 February 2015, 23:22:53
I don't know when precisely Ironhold was settled, but we do know that several worlds in the Kerensky Cluster were settled by the time of the Second Exodus. I believe that Nicky had a policy of resettling populations to Strana Mechty when it was practical, to help centralize his control. The Clans themselves spent almost all of their pre-KLONDIKE training on Strana Mechty(aside from the odd mission reconning the Pentagon, or patrolling the Cluster), so I doubt the Falcons themselves landed on Ironhold in any real numbers until after KLONDIKE.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 24 February 2015, 23:34:47
The map of the Kerensky Cluster in Operation Klondike has Ironhold, and is for the year 2821 (so, during the operation, duh).  Whether the Falcons had settled there by that point is another question entirely.  I seem to recall that by the Widowmaker Absorption, it was definitely their Capital, but I don't have that pulled up in front of me at this point.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 25 February 2015, 00:47:55
The map of the Kerensky Cluster in Operation Klondike has Ironhold, and is for the year 2821 (so, during the operation, duh).

Or prior to Operation Klondike.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mendrugo on 25 February 2015, 01:04:12
fellow Falcons, I call upon you for a quick historical reference  O0 just to make sure

After the beginning of the Pentagon Worlds Civil War, where Nicholas and the 800 relocated to Strana Mechty to re-arm, the Kerensky Cluster was then preliminarily settled, quiaff ?

Basically for my swtor guild CJF cross over / spin off / conversion, our first RP event is about the Founders of our Clan...

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/challenges-and-gatherings/clan-jade-falcon-(swtor)/ (latest pic can be found at the bottom)

The Clans were founded, in CJF's case, Ironhold HQ and colony was set up...before the retaking of the Pentagon was complete or after it ? IE: The Clans were created on Strana Mechty, armed, then hit the Pentagon, then peace and spoils of war, then each Clan got its homeworld ? Also, the first ship to Ironhold, what was that called, reference the Mechwarrior 2 openning video

Thanks O0

Given the existence of the "Mountain People" on Ironhold in the Jade Phoenix Trilogy, there's an argument to be made that Ironhold was settled during the Star League in Exile period, then absorbed by Nicholas' new Clans after they established themselves on Strana Mechty.  The mountain people may be descendants of holdouts from the original colony who refused to assimilate.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 25 February 2015, 21:46:45
Or prior to Operation Klondike.

I meant the map was made during/prior to the Operation, not the settlement.  Ambiguous syntax.  My bad.  Been fighting the plague, so thought processes a little screwier than normal.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 21 March 2015, 20:25:45
What are the Jade Falcons doing in 3074 through 3076?  After destroying Etienne’s Sanctuary in December 3073, there doesn’t seem to be much going on in the Jihad era for them until Luna (3077) and New Earth (3078). 

I’m trying to think of scenarios for them during this period beyond just trialing other clans for scientists.  They’ve been ejected from the homeworlds by this point, so all their activity is in the Inner Sphere. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 22 March 2015, 00:33:07
March 16-21, 3074 - A Joint Falcon-LAAF task force liberates Coventry.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 22 March 2015, 19:47:02
did I read that right lol :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 22 March 2015, 19:50:20
If you mean the part where the Falcons and Lyrans worked together, and the end result did not add a world to the Falcon OZ, you read correct.

You shoulda seen the part where the Falcons landed on Tharkad, and they didn't need to be booted out. ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 23 March 2015, 12:51:40
Falcons played such a minor role in Jihad storyline. Even Free worlds league had more attention and that speaks for itself. :(
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 23 March 2015, 20:34:10
Falcons played such a minor role in Jihad storyline. Even Free worlds league had more attention and that speaks for itself. :(

When  you factor the WoR into the overall Jihad story then their part is a lot bigger
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 23 March 2015, 20:38:29
When  you factor the WoR into the overall Jihad story then their part is a lot bigger

Also, 'even the Free Worlds League' playing a bigger part? Since the Word had so much of their power based within the League, one could argue that no other nation had a bigger part in the Jihad, beyond the Protectorate themselves. So... yeah, not a surprise.

(As Deadborder notes though, they played a hefty part in the Wars of Reaving going on at the same time, so the relative quiet from the Falcons and Wolves is a little more understandable- they had Horses, Hellions, Society, and all kinds of other problems going on. Screw the fanatics.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 23 March 2015, 21:00:04
Also, 'even the Free Worlds League' playing a bigger part? Since the Word had so much of their power based within the League, one could argue that no other nation had a bigger part in the Jihad, beyond the Protectorate themselves. So... yeah, not a surprise.

(As Deadborder notes though, they played a hefty part in the Wars of Reaving going on at the same time, so the relative quiet from the Falcons and Wolves is a little more understandable- they had Horses, Hellions, Society, and all kinds of other problems going on. Screw the fanatics.)

I gotta say, I loved me the Falcon Parts of WoR.  Then again, I loved MOST of WoR.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 24 March 2015, 00:37:28
I gotta say, I loved me the Falcon Parts of WoR.  Then again, I loved MOST of WoR.

WoR ...woe yoe yoe ... What is good for?  Bashing up Falcons and Wolvies ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 09 June 2015, 09:04:12
One quick question: did Falcons invaded any of Rasalhague worlds during the first wave of revival?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 09 June 2015, 09:19:53
One quick question: did Falcons invaded any of Rasalhague worlds during the first wave of revival?

No; their corridor was purely Lyran worlds.

The Wolves invasion corridor was both Lyran and Rasalhauge worlds. Similarly, the Bears took both Rasalhauge and Combine words.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 09 June 2015, 09:48:47
I gotta say, I loved me the Falcon Parts of WoR.  Then again, I loved MOST of WoR.

Kael Pershaw.  Say no more!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 09 June 2015, 22:18:22
Kael Pershaw.  Say no more!

So my brother had gotten me the Jade Phoenix Trilogy as a joke birthday gift.  I gotta say, it did nothing to make Kael Pershaw any less awesome; EVERYONE at Tukayyid, INCLUDING THE FALCON KHANS, were terrified of the man.  He is basically the Sam Vimes of the Jade Falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 09 June 2015, 22:48:21
Okay, some fluff-based advice.

I'm working on some Falcon formations mini-wise. Currently I have a Star's worth of omnis and working on a Star's worth of IIC second-liners, plus about 2 stars of BA, in Delta colours. Would it be likely to see the Omnis & IICs in the same Binary/Trinary? Would the BA be in the same Binary/Trinary as the Omnis>

Second, I have the makings of a Star of heavy/assault 'Mechs of other Clan's signature designs (things like the Kodiak, Ebon Jaguar, Koraken) plus some other choices along these lines. At the moment the Kodiam and Ebon Jaguar are in Mu colours. Does this seem reasonable? Post Refusal War, I can't see the Clan ignoring such Isorla, but would they be seen as prestige due to the weight & capability of the designs, or for assignment to second-string pilots?

Lastly, speak to me of Omega galaxy. I reckon I can do a nice paintjob on them pretty straightforwardly - prime black, drybrush metallic, then green ink the upper torso. Detail & bloody feet, done. Why do Omega choose to flaunt their superiority over the Vipers - where did that all come from? And would my captured assaults fit better in Omega, than Mu?

Opinions eagerly sought, trothkin!

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 09 June 2015, 22:51:24
No; their corridor was purely Lyran worlds.

The Wolves invasion corridor was both Lyran and Rasalhauge worlds. Similarly, the Bears took both Rasalhauge and Combine words.

Negative, FRR worlds Quarrell and Jabuka were taken by the Falcons before Tukayyid.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 09 June 2015, 23:27:06
Okay, some fluff-based advice.

I'm working on some Falcon formations mini-wise. Currently I have a Star's worth of omnis and working on a Star's worth of IIC second-liners, plus about 2 stars of BA, in Delta colours. Would it be likely to see the Omnis & IICs in the same Binary/Trinary? Would the BA be in the same Binary/Trinary as the Omnis>

Second, I have the makings of a Star of heavy/assault 'Mechs of other Clan's signature designs (things like the Kodiak, Ebon Jaguar, Koraken) plus some other choices along these lines. At the moment the Kodiam and Ebon Jaguar are in Mu colours. Does this seem reasonable? Post Refusal War, I can't see the Clan ignoring such Isorla, but would they be seen as prestige due to the weight & capability of the designs, or for assignment to second-string pilots?

Before the Refusal War  you would never see a 2ND line mech in frontline clusters. If I remember, Omnimechs are always found in the frontline clusters unless there is a surplus, which gets filtered into the 2nd line troops. There have been some Falcon Novas in fluff, I'm sure.
Lastly, speak to me of Omega galaxy. I reckon I can do a nice paintjob on them pretty straightforwardly - prime black, drybrush metallic, then green ink the upper torso. Detail & bloody feet, done. Why do Omega choose to flaunt their superiority over the Vipers - where did that all come from? And would my captured assaults fit better in Omega, than Mu?

Opinions eagerly sought, trothkin!

Omega Galaxy died along with Mu Galaxy during the Jihad their shattered clusters helping to form the short-lived Alpha Galaxy. Prior to that they were the go-to guys when it came to the Steel Vipers. Considering the hate both Clans had for each other it's a no brainer that Omega likely played a major part in several conflicts/Trials against the Vipers. During the 3130s Omega Galaxy was reformed and helped Malvina gain and maintain ascendency.  Mu Galaxy's composition is harder to divine. I don't think it was a premier force anytime in Falcon history.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 10 June 2015, 04:34:10
Don't forget though that the jade falcons include second line clusters in front line galaxies and front line clusters in second line galaxies.

Mu for example had one front line cluster, 1st Falcon Hussars and three second line, 5th Falcon Regulars and two PGC's, 9th and 10th I think.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 10 June 2015, 08:48:43
Negative, FRR worlds Quarrell and Jabuka were taken by the Falcons before Tukayyid.

The question was about the first wave.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 10 June 2015, 15:17:34
......I thought I had slept enough before I got online.  [metalhealth]

Missed that post.  Thanks Bren!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 June 2015, 20:24:05
I know Chippewas are sometimes found in Falcon 2nd-line units, but how feasible do you think it'd be for any Chippewa IICs to remain in Falcon service?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 June 2015, 20:31:46
Isorla. It is my answer to just about everything. Post Refusal War, there's no way the Clan would ignore reputable equipment, even if it was not what we usually use, quiaff? Assign the Omnis to the ristars, and let the rest use those Kodiaks, Blood Kites and Chippewa IICs captured in honorable combat from less competent opponents.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 14 June 2015, 20:36:38
Especially until production and trade with other Clans made up for losses sustained in the Jihad and subsequent fighting.  Even then it would likely simply be assigned to a second-line or solahma unit depending upon its condition.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 15 June 2015, 15:37:45
Thank you for answering. I'm making a little Rashalgue campaing and hoped to include some Falcon episode. Maybe another time...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 15 June 2015, 16:13:50
Hey, it's your game. There's plenty of ways the Falcons could have been in the FRR without it making into the history books. Maybe they sent a smaller force just to screw with the Wolves, but then the Wolves weren't actually there yet, so they got in a scrap with the FRR while they were waiting. Either the PCs wipe them out or the Wolves do when they show up later, so no matter what it never makes it into the records. Or, maybe it's one ambitious Falcon acting in defiance of his or her superiors, so the incursion was never recorded.

It's the first wave of the Clan invasion! Long on fighting, short on record-keeping. You could make just about anything work without causing any ripples further down the line.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 15 June 2015, 16:57:56
So there's a few interesting comments in A Rending of Falcons, that may be a bit more sinister after Wars of Reaving came out.

Several times during the novel there are comments about how the Jade Falcon Scientists are really the ones running the Clan. Presumably some of it might be tongue in cheek due to the Scientists being the ones that do the pairings for Bloodlines and what not, not to mention developing new technologies (and the Warriors do wind up going kind of nuts in the novel and killing scientists).

But it seems like a really odd thing to joke about. If you're going to joke about them running the Clan because they control various aspects of the Clan, like breeding protocols and what not, then shouldn't you be joking about that with regard to all Clans? (Admittedly, these comments were directed towards the Falcons, so its not like they had a reason to put down the Wolves or Ravens). So is it simply a joke, or could there be something more sinister there, especially with regards to the Society?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 16 June 2015, 12:16:09
It is sort of true from the perspective that the Scientists run the breeding program.  The Warrior Caste, in particular the Trueborns that underpin it, is perpetuated the labcoats.

On the other hand, they have no choice.  The Warriors have outsourced the messy work of breeding to the labcoats.  Saying the Scientists are in charge is like saying the Helots were in charge in ancient Sparta.


I would say it is typical Falcon paranoia.  They said the same thing about the Merchant Caste.  And yet, it wasn't the Merchants that called for the culling of the Scientist Caste.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 16 June 2015, 14:20:49
Similar things were said about scientists during the Smoke Jaguar annihilation.  Primarily because they play a critical role in clan society, but traditionally have little supervision.  They can be viewed as the power-behind-the-throne. 

As for the DA Falcon scientists, I would say their caste was put in its place as a result of Etienne’s uprising.  But remember the DA novels were all written prior to WoR so there may be a couple references that are out of place.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 17 June 2015, 00:59:06
I just found it interesting that it was outsiders saying it about the Jade Falcons, not the Falcons themselves. It was also too much to pass up considering the issues they had with the Society. Maybe in the intervening years the Falcon warriors slipped.

Or of course it could just be a joke and the author didn't know about the Society when it was written. :)

But I did give me a chuckle :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 17 June 2015, 13:50:07
Wait, was this said by the Lyran diplomate, his bodyguard or the Sea Fox warrior?  Depending on who said it, they may have a misunderstanding of how things work in the Falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 17 June 2015, 14:48:06
The Sea Fox. She says

Quote
‘She actively hates the Jesses. Almost as much as she despises the coterie of high-ranked scientists and technicians who really run Sudeten and the touman—and by extension, Clan Jade Falcon.’’

To Rorion’s look of outright disbelief she said, ‘‘You don’t think warriors would stoop to such mundane tasks as administering an army, or an empire, do you? But leave it. Julia Buhalin is intelligent and formidable. And she hates readily and well. You would do well to be wary of her, Merchant Prince.’’

Which interestingly might answer the question about when a Clan Warrior learns Admin, atleast for the Jade Falcons :)

Later on..this is from Von Texeira (Lyran Merchant/LIC member)

Quote
Metallic, masculine. It struck von Texeira’s ears as dispassionate, yet ringing with that certain superciliousness he had come to associate with senior members of Sudeten’s scientist caste, who Senna said did the real work of running the world—and the Clan.

And then later on, from the Falcon Loremaster (who mind you is probably as insane as Malvina, just in a different way.

Quote
It was not only members of the ‘‘moderate’’ Jess faction that Julia Buhalin sent security teams, augmented by trusted Slip warriors, to arrest. She also availed herself of the opportunity to troll in certain ranking scientists and technicians who, in her opinion, exercised altogether too much power over Clan affairs.

And then later on, in a sort of neutral passage...

Quote
ulia Buhalin was constitutionally incapable of truly comprehending Malvina Hazen’s most recent proclamations. Otherwise she would never have acceded to the exalted rank of loremaster. It did not occur to her that, by arresting the very scientists and technicians who actually ran Clan Jade Falcon, she might be removing the cooling rods that regulated a potentially disastrous reaction.

So admittedly, it sounds like its said that way because the Scientists and Laborers do everything with regards to making Jade Falcon work except for fighting, and thus are "in-charge," but I couldn't help think of the Society each time I read one of those passages (and any others I might have misesd).

Think of the storyline it could be. A Society cell survived, and instead of fighting to take over, they just sort of...suborned the Clan over time. Ah well. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 17 June 2015, 15:12:15
Saying the Scientist caste runs the Falcons may have simply been a scornful statement without any actual evidence like saying that the bureaucrats and accountants (aka bean-counters) run the militaries or corporations where cutting costs is more important than actually getting the job done.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 17 June 2015, 17:29:59
I'd probably agree. But I did find it interesting that the Loremaster thought it was enough of a problem that she felt the need to arrest/kill members of the Scientist and Laborer Caste.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 18 June 2015, 15:36:48
That would a funny turn of events.  The Falcons being run by a Scientist Caste largely descended from Isorla.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 19 June 2015, 00:21:08
Sorry, still looking for background for my mini units ... it's a curse of mine ;)

So I'm pretty happy with either a provisional or solhama cluster hosting my "Isorla Trinary" - a collection of captured hardware, second-line stuff, and some vehicles, manned with aging non-Bloodnames and bondsmen who got adopted. It's sort of a "Dirty Dozen" approach - good but non-standard equipment, second-rate but still aggressive warriors. The Galaxy Commander saying "Yes, we will use you. We will burn you up. But you will burn fiercely, and you will bring honor to the Clan!"

Omega (and Mu) get trashed during the Jihad. Alas, there's no info I can find on who they get used up against. By referring to their destruction during the Jihad, it's an implication that they were moved from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere, otherwise they might have been said to be trashed during the Wars of Reaving, and also probably not get re-created in the Inner Sphere in the Dark Age.  (All IMHO, of course).

I know the Falcons fought Wolves, Hellions, and Lyrans during the Jihad period. Did they ever fight the Blakists? They appear to have had an uneasy truce-of-convenience with the Ghost Bears - correct?

I'm leaning towards them being moved from the Homeworlds following the Hellion Incursion to reinforce the Clan in the Inner Sphere. That then makes the Wolves the likely opponents who trashed them, hopefully with them giving as good as they got.

Makes sense? Anyone got any additional information, or opinions?

Thanks in advance,

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 19 June 2015, 03:26:20
I know the Falcons fought Wolves, Hellions, and Lyrans during the Jihad period. Did they ever fight the Blakists?

Of course.  They helped liberated Coventry as well as assigning troops to the Coalition forces that invaded the Protectorate.

Quote
They appear to have had an uneasy truce-of-convenience with the Ghost Bears - correct?

Yes and no.  Distance as much as mutual respect effectively prevented any real clashes between the two Clans. Kael Pershaw and his staff caught a ride with the Ghost Bears to the Inner Sphere.  There is also the minor issue about them being one of the most powerful Clans in the Inner Sphere, if not the most powerful and the Falcons having little reason to want to get the Bear angry at them.  Besides they had no reason to attack a Clan that is keeping the Wolves honest.

Quote
I'm leaning towards them being moved from the Homeworlds following the Hellion Incursion to reinforce the Clan in the Inner Sphere. That then makes the Wolves the likely opponents who trashed them, hopefully with them giving as good as they got.

Well according to FM:Updates, both Omega and Mu were in the Inner Sphere before the Jihad or WoR broke out.  As of 3067, only Sigma and Zeta Galaxies remained in the Clan Homeworlds.

Per the 3072 Clan OZ map in Jihad Secrets (p31), Mu Galaxy's 1st Falcon Velites and 5th Falcon Regulars' respective homeworlds (Domain and La Grave respectively) were seized by Clan Wolf while Omega Galaxy's 7th PGC's homeworld (Machida) was recaptured by the Lyrans while the 11th PGC's homeworld (Bone Norman) was temporarily captured by the Ice Hellions (per JS, p28) by elements of Beta and/or Zeta Galaxies.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Achtung Minen! on 11 July 2015, 19:57:59
I had a quick question for the Falconers. I'm not overly familiar with the background plot for the BT universe, but I do remember an aspect of Clan Jade Falcon emphasized in the old Mechwarrior 2 computer game. In that game, they had a clear mystical bent, referencing prophecies and visions that saw into the future and confirmed the Falcon's Crusader mission to conquer Terra and reunite the Star League. Does this warrior-mysticism bleed through into the fiction or the Battletech background at all?

The other question is about the conservative nature of the Clan. By 3080, it seems that they are the last major Clan faction that still abides by the Crusader mentality (the Great Refusal and the Wars of Reaving having made both Crusader and Warden camps largely irrelevant). Even the Malvina Hazen period doesn't see the Falcons subscribing to Aggressor or Bastion politics, precisely speaking. After decades, it seems that CJF is the only old-style clan left in existence (with old style Trueblood warrior dominating the clan culture, honour bound and traditional society). So, is this true? Has Clan Jade Falcon remained the most "the same" of all the Clans?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 11 July 2015, 22:54:51
Does this warrior-mysticism bleed through into the fiction or the Battletech background at all?

The only prophecy that the Falcons concern themselves with is that Nicholas Kerensky prophesized that the Clans would return to the Inner Sphere and re-establish the Star League.

Quote
The other question is about the conservative nature of the Clan. By 3080, it seems that they are the last major Clan faction that still abides by the Crusader mentality (the Great Refusal and the Wars of Reaving having made both Crusader and Warden camps largely irrelevant). Even the Malvina Hazen period doesn't see the Falcons subscribing to Aggressor or Bastion politics, precisely speaking. After decades, it seems that CJF is the only old-style clan left in existence (with old style Trueblood warrior dominating the clan culture, honour bound and traditional society). So, is this true? Has Clan Jade Falcon remained the most "the same" of all the Clans?

Aggressor/Bastion politics is limited to the Homeworld Clans.  They have fought the hardest to remain true to their old traditions but since the Blackout, Malvina's battlefield success (not to mention the destruction of most oppostion) has led much of the Clan to support her extremist stance with traditionalists being sidelined for the most part.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Achtung Minen! on 12 July 2015, 00:20:47
The only prophecy that the Falcons concern themselves with is that Nicholas Kerensky prophesized that the Clans would return to the Inner Sphere and re-establish the Star League.

Aggressor/Bastion politics is limited to the Homeworld Clans.  They have fought the hardest to remain true to their old traditions but since the Blackout, Malvina's battlefield success (not to mention the destruction of most oppostion) has led much of the Clan to support her extremist stance with traditionalists being sidelined for the most part.

That's interesting, so there was never any development of things like The Remembrance, which was a pseudo-religious text about the Clan's origin story, or the fulfillment of the prophesies?

I always thought the pseudo-religious Easter eggs running in the background of the Battletech universe (and in the Clans in particular) were interesting. For example, there are lots of Arabic terms that have a religious basis: jihad, hegira (the Clan right for peaceful withdrawal) and many others.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2015, 11:44:17
I'd say the Remembrance was FAR from undeveloped.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 12 July 2015, 12:50:15
In that game, they had a clear mystical bent, referencing prophecies and visions that saw into the future and confirmed the Falcon's Crusader mission to conquer Terra and reunite the Star League. Does this warrior-mysticism bleed through into the fiction or the Battletech background at all?

I think this is less about visions and prophecies and more about reverence and absolute belief for what the Kerenskys had vowed in the past.

It would be similar to saying Churchill 'prophesied' the defence of Britain or MacArthur had a 'vision' of returning to the Philippines.

So, not so much mysticism but an honour-bound, fanatical belief.


Has Clan Jade Falcon remained the most "the same" of all the Clans?

Yes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 12 July 2015, 13:14:13
They are getting more and more excepting of freebirths though.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 July 2015, 18:44:48
I think it's fair to say that the Falcons stayed truest to the original Crusader belief set. I see Malvina's adaptation of the Mongol philosophy to be the ultimate expression of all the frustration that this approach produced. "So you will not play by our rules after decades of beatings and punishments!! Well then, reap the hurricane!!!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Luriael on 14 July 2015, 09:56:05
They are getting more and more excepting of freebirths though.

I would think that after the Pryde debacle (Aidan and Diana both) the Falcons would have soften a bit toward freebirths.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 14 July 2015, 11:13:16
I think it's fair to say that the Falcons stayed truest to the original Crusader belief set. I see Malvina's adaptation of the Mongol philosophy to be the ultimate expression of all the frustration that this approach produced. "So you will not play by our rules after decades of beatings and punishments!! Well then, reap the hurricane!!!"

Close it down, we have the single best summation of Clan Jade Falcon we're ever going to get here. Thanks for visiting, folks!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 July 2015, 19:00:14
Anyone who's had a girl-child go through the Terrible Twos knows this as truth ;)

(Boys? They're Smoke Jaguars.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 14 July 2015, 19:26:50
Close it down, we have the single best summation of Clan Jade Falcon we're ever going to get here. Thanks for visiting, folks!

Finally, we get to shut down the Looney Tunes Clan ...

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/thats-all-folks-18569.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 July 2015, 19:32:46
If I had the artistic talent, I'd be colouring those (left to right)
Wolf
Nova Cat
(back) Smoke Jaguar
Snow Raven
(front) Ghost Bear
Jade Falcon
(bottom) Blood Spirit ..
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Elcor05 on 14 July 2015, 21:17:44
If I had the artistic talent, I'd be colouring those (left to right)
Wolf
Nova Cat
(back) Smoke Jaguar
Snow Raven
(front) Ghost Bear
Jade Falcon
(bottom) Blood Spirit ..

You did a good job with this. I hate that the Ravens are Daffy, but you did a really good job.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 15 July 2015, 16:59:09
I would think that after the Pryde debacle (Aidan and Diana both) the Falcons would have soften a bit toward freebirths.

Depends on how they rationalize it and how they tell the story. I could well imagine this to lead to a radicalization of the trueborns under the right circumstances. And the Falcons seem to be just the kind of people for a radicalization... I love to hate them, even more so in the DA.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 15 July 2015, 18:40:50
Your hate warms us O0 Sharpen your claws. We wait your challenge.

In the meantime, how about a coffee? ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 16 July 2015, 15:09:48
bide bide wait a minute i see what you di di di, implied  there!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 16 July 2015, 16:32:21
You did a good job with this. I hate that the Ravens are Daffy, but you did a really good job.

"Vipers... you're dethpicable!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 20 July 2015, 19:38:20
bide bide wait a minute i see what you di di di, implied  there!

 :-\

I am afraid I did not get it... what was implied?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 July 2015, 19:42:48
I hereby declare my intention to field two complete trinaries of Delta Galaxy minis. One 'Mechs, one battle armour.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 20 July 2015, 21:04:04
I hereby declare my intention to field two complete trinaries of Delta Galaxy minis. One 'Mechs, one battle armour.

Excellent. Kit Foxes for ALL.  O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 July 2015, 21:14:31
JHB, you know I rock the high end of the RAT ;)  At this point it's a heavy Omni star, an assault second-line star, and a heavy C star.

OTOH, I do have some CityTech Novas and Kit Foxes. But then I'd have to shift the Cs into a Solhama formation ...

AAARGH! My name is Worktroll, and I'm a formation addict. This would indeed reduce the number of transports needed for the BA trinary; two stars of Omnis mean only one star of BA transport needed. The Cardinal isn't available Jihad-era; is the Anhur mini any good? How's it sized? Plus some Haephestii in the 5-ton transport mod ...

(Already spent my budget for June-July-August getting lance packs plus some other minis ...)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 20 July 2015, 21:29:41
No idea if the Anhur is any good as a mini- it's a right bastard of a nasty aircraft, but as a mini I'll defer to others. (Still sad that we only got the one of them in MWDA, it was a good sculpt there, but now it's a bitch to get your hands on them)

Worth remembering, the Hephaestus tended to be Horse-only. Same for the Tyr, pretty much a Dominion toy. So if you want to move Falcon BA around without Omnimechs, you're kind of looking at Svantovits and... not sure on Maxim-Cs, but probably it's just Svantovits. (And really, that's not the worst thing in the world. Good tank.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 July 2015, 21:54:32
The Haephestus is such a lovely mini. I modded some into the jump config for Fletch, another Aussie, and waiting to see them painted.

Svants it'll be then. And wondering how I could convert a Skadi into an Anhur ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 20 July 2015, 23:30:43
Anhur is a sweet mini, I have two, in CHH colours of course.

Said tanks are in the process of being painted.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 July 2015, 23:31:20
How does it compare with (for example) one of the DA Gnome bases you have?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 21 July 2015, 02:07:47
I haven't seen the record sheet for it, but if you're building for Jihad era, then the Falcons have a BA version of the commuter bus Indra.  :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 July 2015, 09:22:46
Their branch of Quikscell also builds generic tracked APCs, though those wouldn't help much for BA.

Similarly, given the kind of gear that the Falcons restrict their front line units to when they have a choice, do you think the Ironhold is a second line suit? It seems either that, or they'd only be deployed via airmobile assaults.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 21 July 2015, 18:13:56
How does it compare with (for example) one of the DA Gnome bases you have?

The anhur mini is on the larger size for a vtol so should look ok with the DA BA suits.  Will get a picture for you.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 21 July 2015, 18:27:29
Thanks!

Now JHB has managed to inveigle me into moving the Cs into a Solahma unit, I'll be replacing them with two Novas, two Kit Foxes, and a Loki. The first four are all CityTech plastics, so modding them will cover the inherent flaws.

I'll only need to move a star of BA with transports - a point of Anhurs and something else ought to do.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 22 July 2015, 07:03:37
Thanks!

Now JHB has managed to inveigle me into moving the Cs into a Solahma unit, I'll be replacing them with two Novas, two Kit Foxes, and a Loki. The first four are all CityTech plastics, so modding them will cover the inherent flaws.

I'll only need to move a star of BA with transports - a point of Anhurs and something else ought to do.

*cough* Hellbringer *cough*
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 22 July 2015, 07:32:54
Yup, probably, as I still have one high-quality plastic one left over unbuilt. Might build it as a C, and swap the Prime I have in the heavy star out for it into the recon star.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 27 July 2015, 14:53:03
It seems that Malvina is still ripping through the IS.  Arc-Royal falls in 3046.  Then Coventry is hit in 3048, but the Trutzburg entry (TRO 3150) suggests that the attack may have been repelled.  The Hell’s Horses still seem to be supporting Malvina.  So the Jade Falcons will go into the new era in a bloodbath. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 27 July 2015, 18:41:09
The original twitter excerpts also included Greenlaw falling to the Wolves. It seems the clans are still attacking the Commonwealth.
But the Falcons also have some problems in their backs: the mysterious pirate band attacking their worlds, and the remnants of the Kell Hounds also attacking Falcon worlds on their way to the periphery. I would not be surprised if the Falcons overstretch themselves. They are overful but stretching from the periphery to the core facing the Wolves, Bears, the Commonwealth, and the Republic. And who knows how long the Horses will go along with the Falcons...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 27 July 2015, 18:44:31
So the Jade Falcons will go into the new era in a bloodbath.

You say that like it's a bad thing? ???

The Spheroids cannot be trusted until they have been crushed beneath our talons. They take any weakness and exploit it for their selfish ends. They must serve, or die.

[ooc] Am I the only one who seens (say) Alaric declaring himself ilKhan in Unity City, while overhead Malvina says "full thrust. The enemy's gate is down.", or words to that effect?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 28 July 2015, 00:10:03
At the very least, Malvina could attempt a trial of refusal. Imagine her becoming ilKhan.  :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 28 July 2015, 04:07:51
No idea if the Anhur is any good as a mini- it's a right bastard of a nasty aircraft, but as a mini I'll defer to others. (Still sad that we only got the one of them in MWDA, it was a good sculpt there, but now it's a bitch to get your hands on them)

Anhur is BV and money cheap. That's it. I like the idea of having air support with cargo and it can quickly deliver 5 elementals anywhere on the table. But then you end up with 5 elementals out of position and without any help. And unless you get a lucky round with Anhur on full speed, it will be shot down by enemy 'Mechs 1 turn later.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Achtung Minen! on 28 July 2015, 15:29:32
Well, I've returned from my survey of the Inner Sphere (read: finally catching up on the basic essentials of Battletech fluff through several days of Sarna.net browsing) and I can confirm that everything non-Falcon is corrupt and decadent. I've peered into the philosophies, governmental systems, social structures, military doctrines, economic programs and religions of the Spheroids and have come to the conclusion that Clan society is the best. Perhaps not the most free, but frequently the most just, scientific, efficient and (shockingly) the most peaceful and stable. Anyone else come to similar conclusions?

On another note, I think one of my issues with Malvina (other than my staunch traditionalism and conservatism) is that we just don't have any other major Falcons to look up to in the Dark Ages. Simply put, there isn't yet enough writing, game material or background stories to give us other options to idealize. Malvina is OK, but I'd like a little choice (something like the richness of dramatis personae found in the Clan Invasion years).

So, one last thought/question. Have the rest of the Falcons (other than Malvina's coterie) become content to just occupy their corridor, satisfied that they have liberated some of the Inner Sphere in Kerensky's vision? Are they increasingly calling it "home" instead of "invasion corridor"? Are they entering into Inner Sphere politics, or keeping themselves (and their original objective of sacred Terra) aloof from the Spheroids?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 28 July 2015, 15:57:14
I've peered into the philosophies, governmental systems, social structures, military doctrines, economic programs and religions of the Spheroids and have come to the conclusion that Clan society is the best. Perhaps not the most free, but frequently the most just, scientific, efficient and (shockingly) the most peaceful and stable. Anyone else come to similar conclusions?

Depends on how you look at it.  I'm personally not all that fond of militarist societies, or caste systems, and find the idea of eugenics a dangerously romanticized pseudo science.  But, as far as the Falcons are concerned, I like them because at least if you're going to be the product of an artificial society founded by a power hungry despot, you might as well do that to the best of your ability.  For that reason the Falcons are always close to my heart.  Where others buckle, they proceed.

Quote
On another note, I think one of my issues with Malvina (other than my staunch traditionalism and conservatism) is that we just don't have any other major Falcons to look up to in the Dark Ages. Simply put, there isn't yet enough writing, game material or background stories to give us other options to idealize. Malvina is OK, but I'd like a little choice (something like the richness of dramatis personae found in the Clan Invasion years).

There is Noritomo Helmer at present.  The problem with him, however, is that for all his good intentions and desire to play the long game, he hasn't actually done anything significant.  He can't beat Malvina in a Trial, and that's what matters.  Until someone puts her down there is no saving the Falcons from their own might makes right code.

Historically, there were decent Falcon characters.  Aleksandr was a decent enough Clanner, and really what the Falcons needed.  Ambitious, but also compassionate.  Dangerous as a warrior, but sentimental and forgiving of the upstart Isorla he captured.  However, that sentimentalism was his undoing and affected Malvina.

Beckett Malthus, while an underhanded manipulator... was also an underhanded manipulator in grand Jade Falcon tradition.  His desire to break the stalemate between the Slips and Jessies was the catalyst for the Falcon Desant.  Unfortunately, the wrong Hazen died and he could not control Malvina as well as he thought he could.

Quote
So, one last thought/question. Have the rest of the Falcons (other than Malvina's coterie) become content to just occupy their corridor, satisfied that they have liberated some of the Inner Sphere in Kerensky's vision? Are they increasingly calling it "home" instead of "invasion corridor"? Are they entering into Inner Sphere politics, or keeping themselves (and their original objective of sacred Terra) aloof from the Sphiroids?

You should read Flight of the Falcon, Blood of The Ilse, and A Rending of Falcons.  Those will give you the complete picture of what the Falcons have been up to in the early Dark Age and preceding years.  But, the short answer is, they invaded Skye and have been rampaging across Lyran space as well.  The Jade Falcon OZ is "home" since the events of the Wars of Reaving.  They are still hard on their civilian population and have transformed several Lyran worlds in their image.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Achtung Minen! on 28 July 2015, 16:03:27
You should read Flight of the Falcon, Blood of The Ilse, and A Rending of Falcons.  Those will give you the complete picture of what the Falcons have been up to in the early Dark Age and preceding years.  But, the short answer is, they invaded Skye and have been rampaging across Lyran space as well.  The Jade Falcon OZ is "home" since the events of the Wars of Reaving.  They are still hard on their civilian population and have transformed several Lyran worlds in their image.

Ahh, it's nice to know that the Falcons are still punching waaaay above their weight class. How many worlds are in the Jade Falcon territory... 50? And the Lyran Commonwealth is something like 350 or more?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 28 July 2015, 16:51:31
I've never understood why people always say falcon's are hard against conquered civilians.   Everything I've ever read said the Falcons tended to just plant their flag, tell the populous to carry on, and then move on to the next planet.  A couple even referenced the planets' economies improving under Falcon rule.   

I remember in wars of reaving one clan(blood spirits?) tried to carve out the Falcon OZ from behind.  The didn't leave behind enough garrison forces after taking some planets because they assumed that after so many years the people would be used to clan rule.  They didn't realize the Falcons tended to use a hands off approach.  As a result, the few groups that were actually interested in ousting the clans from the start ended up finally getting enough support to cause problems for the new occupying clan.


Now with Malvina yeah, the falcons use an iron hand in an iron glove(with spikes) approach, but that wasn't always the case.  Although as I understand it if a planet's people cooperate, she's less likely to nuke their water supply.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 28 July 2015, 16:52:33
Ahh, it's nice to know that the Falcons are still punching waaaay above their weight class. How many worlds are in the Jade Falcon territory... 50? And the Lyran Commonwealth is something like 350 or more?

Between the falcons and the wolves, I think that number is a lot smaller now.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 28 July 2015, 17:13:28
Depends on how you look at it.  I'm personally not all that fond of militarist societies, or caste systems, and find the idea of eugenics a dangerously romanticized pseudo science.  But, as far as the Falcons are concerned, I like them because at least if you're going to be the product of an artificial society founded by a power hungry despot, you might as well do that to the best of your ability.  For that reason the Falcons are always close to my heart.  Where others buckle, they proceed.

Well said.


Ahh, it's nice to know that the Falcons are still punching waaaay above their weight class. How many worlds are in the Jade Falcon territory... 50? And the Lyran Commonwealth is something like 350 or more?

In that case the Falcons punched someone laying on the ground already, after the Wolves had cut down a significant part of the LCAF. As of 3145, the Falcon Touman alone outnumbers the LCAF (and the Wolves in Exile) by quite a margin. Then the Commonwealth has to deal with Wolves, the neoFWL, secessionist movements, coups...  No, beating the Commonwealth in 3145-50 really is not much of a feat anymore.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 28 July 2015, 18:50:47
I've never understood why people always say falcon's are hard against conquered civilians.   Everything I've ever read said the Falcons tended to just plant their flag, tell the populous to carry on, and then move on to the next planet.  A couple even referenced the planets' economies improving under Falcon rule.   

Until such time as someone does something to annoy them. Then the reaction tends to be swift, hard, and rigid.

The Wolves might try talking to the disaffected, give them another chance, and if still not cooperative, perform a surgical strike.
The Bears end up welcoming the spheroids into their arms (and beds), and rely on the 'care bear stare" to bring them around.
A Falcon warrior, faced with a factory strike, calls down artillery to flatten the factory and two blocks in every direction around it. And then remind the people 3 blocks away that they should be grateful for the Falcon's forbearance.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 28 July 2015, 20:35:35
But flattening the factory would be a waste of resources, quiaff? That's why the Falcons invented things like heavy flamers and AP gauss rifles. O0

Depends on how you look at it.  I'm personally not all that fond of militarist societies, or caste systems, and find the idea of eugenics a dangerously romanticized pseudo science.  But, as far as the Falcons are concerned, I like them because at least if you're going to be the product of an artificial society founded by a power hungry despot, you might as well do that to the best of your ability.  For that reason the Falcons are always close to my heart.  Where others buckle, they proceed.

The Falcons are quite good at fostering persistence, assuming they haven't already figured out how to breed for it. Something I've always liked about them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 28 July 2015, 21:39:58
I've never understood why people always say falcon's are hard against conquered civilians.   Everything I've ever read said the Falcons tended to just plant their flag, tell the populous to carry on, and then move on to the next planet.  A couple even referenced the planets' economies improving under Falcon rule.   

They built units like the Sokar to put down riots, and the example of pacification units in TRO 3085 is a Jade Falcon one.  We know they come down on civilian disruption really hard.

Also, this:

Quote from: A Rending of Falcons
Cargo and utility vehicles made up the bulk of traffic.  Pedestrians throned the sidewalks.  Clan Jade Falcon discouraged private vehicles almost as vigorously as they did firearms.  The foot traffic walked rapidly; their masters discouraged dawdling by Clan laborers and locals alike.  They kept their gazes down, lest they be deemed to challenge some passing warrior, which would have swift, and fatal results.



Quote
I remember in wars of reaving one clan(blood spirits?) tried to carve out the Falcon OZ from behind.  The didn't leave behind enough garrison forces after taking some planets because they assumed that after so many years the people would be used to clan rule.  They didn't realize the Falcons tended to use a hands off approach.  As a result, the few groups that were actually interested in ousting the clans from the start ended up finally getting enough support to cause problems for the new occupying clan.

There was also a world that when the Lyrans took it back the people were too afraid of the returning Falcons that they would not use both their first name and last.  They continued to go by the single name conventions imposed by the Falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fowl Weather Friend on 13 August 2015, 15:40:11

Anyone run the Jade Hawk?  Are there any good variants for long-medium range fighting?

I'm a new player to Battletech, but I played MWAOD and played Jade Falcon pretty extensively.  I've got one of each of the new totem 'mechs (Shrike, Gyrfalcon, etc.) and I was curious to if anyone else ran them.   The claws, TSM, and supercharger scream "melee brawler", but I'm in need of something that is more focused on ranged attacks rather than physical.   One of the local players plays Clan Wolf and we've hand fun playing up the rivalry between our clans.  We have a Trial of Possession this weekend and agreed to follow Zellbrigen to the letter.   
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 August 2015, 16:09:45
Haven't run any of them myself, but the Jade Hawk 2 looks like a good long-range fighter. You can't really go wrong with paired ER Large Lasers, especially when you can season your shots with ATMs according to situation and taste. Not as maneuverable as most Falcon designs these days, though. Same goes for the JHK-04. Most of the fast mover Jade Hawks are infighters. The Jade Hawk 3 technically fits the bill for maneuverability and range, but not really with enough firepower to turn the tide until you get in close and switch to HE missiles.

Oh, and welcome! O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fowl Weather Friend on 17 August 2015, 13:39:30
Got in a couple of games yesterday. 

Lost my duel against the Clan Wolf player, he had a Savage Wolf with a pair of PPCS, and SRM 6's that shot the limbs of my Jade Hawk off pretty quickly.  That being said, I really like how maneuverable the 'hawk is.  The super charger and partial wing make it obnoxiously zippy. 

Got a chance to run "Black Rose" (the dual ER PPC Shrike that Malvina Hazen uses) too.  Nobody in the group had seen a Shrike before, and it caught them off guard when I could jump, fire off both PPCS and an LRM 10 while staying heat neutral.  She got taken down by a Banshee that put a TSM hatchet into her engineer, but not before taking it with her.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 21 August 2015, 19:27:21
At the very least, Malvina could attempt a trial of refusal. Imagine her becoming ilKhan.  :D

I said something to this affect somewhere in this forum sometime ago. Best way to solve the wolf/falcon fued is combat.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 21 August 2015, 22:48:05
I said something to this affect somewhere in this forum sometime ago. Best way to solve the wolf/falcon fued is combat.
Kinda like how the Wolf/Falcon fued was solved by combat in 3057. I'm sure it will always be an issue until one side is absorbed or annihilated. Falcons under a Wolf ilClan will be disruptive if allowed any sort of identity, and I would expect the same from the Wolves if the situation were reversed.

It's all Vandervahn Chistu's fault. Some Arrow IV-packing Huitzilopochtli tanks in the initial bid could have solved everything.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Frogfoot on 22 August 2015, 18:55:38
What you need for peace between the Falcons and Wolves are Khans who enjoy sexytime together like Vlad and Marthe did.

Malvina don't need Alaric when she's got Cynthy, and I think Alaric would sense Malvina' crazy vibes and run a mile. Not much chance for peace there.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 24 August 2015, 17:22:40
What you need for peace between the Falcons and Wolves are Khans who enjoy sexytime together like Vlad and Marthe did.

Yeah, that was enough to make me throw up a little...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 24 August 2015, 21:37:16
What you need for peace between the Falcons and Wolves are Khans who enjoy sexytime together like Vlad and Marthe did.

That didn't stop either Clan from trying to take advantage of each other's distractions to seize worlds from one another.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 24 August 2015, 23:07:56
Just because you're screwing each other, is no reason for Clanners not to screw each other ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 25 August 2015, 09:59:16
Isn't the inner sphere exactly the same? :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 25 August 2015, 12:59:40
Isn't the inner sphere exactly the same? :)

Common ground. Mystifying.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 25 August 2015, 13:01:56
Isn't the inner sphere exactly the same? :)

With the addition of contractions, yes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 25 August 2015, 14:01:05
Common ground. Mystifying.
Not sure if I'd call it common ground, more like humanity's ability to rationalize any situation into a good boink being one aspect of human nature that Nutbar Nikky was unable to expunge.

Or unwilling. ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 25 August 2015, 14:36:36
Eh, Nic encouraged a certain degree of rowdiness within the clans.  He tried to ritualize it so they didn't end up destroying themselves.  The idea of splitting them into 20 Clans was the first step in making sure they were in a permanent state of contest between one another.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 06 September 2015, 23:45:19
Do we have any records of Kappa Galaxy fighting any Wolves lately? I recently got ahold of a DA Carnivore to go with my metal ones, and the size comparison is pretty good. Owing to the obvious differences, I want to portray the plastic tank as one captured in battle, and given slapdash Falcon-y colors over whatever paint scheme it originally had.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 07 September 2015, 09:40:08
Do we have any records of Kappa Galaxy fighting any Wolves lately? I recently got ahold of a DA Carnivore to go with my metal ones, and the size comparison is pretty good. Owing to the obvious differences, I want to portray the plastic tank as one captured in battle, and given slapdash Falcon-y colors over whatever paint scheme it originally had.
You have a couple of options. First, the TRO entry says the HAG version was mad available for sale to the Falcons. Second, a third version was made for sale to the Lyrans and Exiles. FM3145 mentions Kappa has been fighting the Exiles a lot. Lastly, since the Carnivore came in TRO 3085, there could have been plenty of salvage that would be passed down to Kappa from the front-line galaxies recently as the other galaxies got more mechs
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 07 September 2015, 13:35:29
FM3145 mentions Kappa has been fighting the Exiles a lot.

This is exactly what I needed. O0 I knew the Falcons could buy HAG models, I figure that's where my IWM Carnies came from. I can paint the plastic one in WiE colors, with a few slapdashes of Kappa grey and green in strategic spots, to represent a tank that was hurriedly repaired and sent back out into battle with the bare minimum of markings to prevent friendly fire.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Von Jankmon on 15 September 2015, 09:28:40
Been a long time trothkin.

Have we any warships left?  And do we have a sane Khan again.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 September 2015, 09:52:42
Lots of cruisers. I'd say the Falcon capital fleet is second in power only to the Ravens right now.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 September 2015, 17:57:46
The Falcons still have the third biggest navy of any Inner Sphere power. The Ravens have more warships especially after bringing a lot of theirs out of mothballs recently. While the Foxes technically have the largest, most of those are ArcShips and thus not suited to fighting at all.

Most of the fleet are Agies and Black Lion class cruisers. So "oldie but a goodie"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 15 September 2015, 17:59:52
As for Khans... well, let's not waste words on trying to make a positive out of things. Malvina is still running the show.

*shudder*
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 15 September 2015, 18:34:35
Better to burn in Hell that serve under Care Bear Stare ... and the metal which survives Malvina's fury will be a thing of wonder.

Or so I like to hope. Then again, I wanted the Hellions to throw the ultimate tantrum and purify the taint of other Clans with nuclear fire too ...

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 15 September 2015, 19:25:39
Most of the fleet are Agies and Black Lion class cruisers. So "oldie but a goodie"

They also have a single Cameron, another ship I'd call "oldie but goodie".

The Falcon fleet is indeed impressive and I would not be surprised if it had a role in obliterating the dezgra Wolves on Arc-Royal. I just hope Mad Malvina turns her fleet on the Wolf Empire one day.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 15 September 2015, 20:31:50
Wait, Malvina hit Arc Royal with orbital bombardments after declaring the Exiled Wolves dezgra? Someone needs to hit her with a Trial of Grievance for her actual dezgra behavior, or at least call it out as such (and survive her inevitable wrath...).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 15 September 2015, 20:43:23
Wait, Malvina hit Arc Royal with orbital bombardments after declaring the Exiled Wolves dezgra?

No, at least I do not know it. I just can imagine that Malvina would use such tactics on enemies she considers dezgra.
We will have to wait and see what happened on Arc-Royal.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: beachhead1985 on 16 September 2015, 20:16:07
I can't help it...when I think of a "Spirit Animal" for the Jade Falcons...

...

It's Vegeta from DBZ abridged.

"I AM THE HYPE!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 September 2015, 01:08:20
Help an old solahma warrior out here ... in the MW:DA line, the Falcon minis are amazingly attractive in a dark metallic-grey base, with either medium green or jade green highlights.

Does anyone have any idea what galaxy/galaxies the minis represent? I'm starting to buy some BT-scale dark age Falcons for my Mongol Horde, and wanted to know if this had been canonised at some point.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 20 September 2015, 08:24:51
Help an old solahma warrior out here ... in the MW:DA line, the Falcon minis are amazingly attractive in a dark metallic-grey base, with either medium green or jade green highlights.

Does anyone have any idea what galaxy/galaxies the minis represent? I'm starting to buy some BT-scale dark age Falcons for my Mongol Horde, and wanted to know if this had been canonised at some point.

Thanks!

Offhand I can't recall if it was in any of the novels - but in my HeadCanonTM Malvina's 'Mongol' forces use that black scheme for two reasons:

a) Malvina changed her Jade Falcon uniform to a black version of the original
b) the original Mongol armies held the colour black 'in the highest esteem' according to one historian
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 20 September 2015, 08:28:28
The MWDA minis were meant to represent the Turkina Keshik (Expanded to a full Galaxy), Gyrfalcon Galaxy and Zeta Galaxy. I don't know if they are canon, but I'd love them to be as well.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 20 September 2015, 09:21:19
I was inspired by the wizkids minis when painted my JF forces.  I figured if anyone got picky about it I'd just say they were Sigma Galaxy.  http://camospecs.com/Unit.asp?ID=544  It's pretty close.  Not a fan of their insignia though. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 23 September 2015, 02:53:19
Reading ER3145, I suspect it's the Raptor Keshik and maybe the reconstituted Omega Galaxy. The old colors for Omega are close, but not the bisected patterning.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 25 September 2015, 02:13:54
Leading from there ... what is your favourite Galaxy? Which has your allegiance?

For me, it is Delta. Green and yellow are the iconic Falcon colours (at least until the Dark Ages). It also doesn't hurt that I don't have to paint scales, feathers, murals, cherry blossoms etc ;)

W.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 25 September 2015, 04:16:26
Leading from there ... what is your favourite Galaxy?

All of them, as many targets as possible please.

cherry blossoms etc ;)

Someone so needs to paint 15 mechs in Japanese Rugby colours...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 25 September 2015, 08:12:10
Delta galaxy.  More specifically the 1st Falcon Strikers.  They had an excellent record in the invasion, won their fight in the Refusal War, made it to the Dark Age and participated in the Descent.  Of course the only strike against them is becoming Mongols under Malvina. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 September 2015, 08:21:28
Iota. I like the Delta paint scheme a bit better, but I've been an Iota boy since my earliest days of being a baby-eating Crusader fascist.  O0

(Mmmm. Baby.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 25 September 2015, 09:39:15
I prefer Delta for my hardcore frontline guys, and Kappa for when I want to run embittered old-timers who left their give-a-**** back at base with their coffee.

In Dark Age games, I like Helmer's group, but have to remember that I joined the Falcons specifically to indulge my inner soulless bastard. As a result, I borrow a buddy's D&D alignment dice before each game, and let the result decide what side of that particular divide I'm playing that day.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 25 September 2015, 21:33:03
I gravitated towards Gamma Galaxy, for being an elite front-line force with solid units during the invasion and for the sensible camo. Lambda Galaxy has also been a favorite, great color scheme and the whole Jade Falcon Deep Space Patrol thing appeals to me.

From recent reading, Alpha Galaxy during the Jihad sounds pretty wild, and I really need to pick up those DA novels because the rebuilt Omega Galaxy sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 26 September 2015, 10:18:23

Someone so needs to paint 15 mechs in Japanese Rugby colours...

This is wandering from the topic of Falcons, but I suddenly envision a unit of Kuritan Mercenaries/Baseball players, in their team of yellow and black mechs... :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 26 September 2015, 14:01:21
Iota Galaxy.  The 305th Assault Cluster to be precise.  I eventually hope to have an entire painted Cluster.  I'm also painting up all of my second-line 'Mechs and vehicles in Iota colors too.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 26 September 2015, 15:28:49
I've never really gotten into the fluff enough to get my preference down to a specific galaxy.   I guess I'd say any that paint their units green.  The grays, tans, blues, and greenish turquoise just doesn't say Falcon to me.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 26 September 2015, 19:51:41
The petty part of me will always have a soft spot for Delta Galaxy and their victory over Ulric and Natasha's Galaxies on Wotan.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Frogfoot on 26 September 2015, 19:59:35
Leading from there ... what is your favourite Galaxy?

Grungy second-line Galaxies in general. Especially the ones cobbled together in the wake of the Refusal War, using IS salvage and cached SL mechs mixed with whatever Clan mechs could be spared. Mu and Omega Galaxies were good examples. You can find individual Clusters with similar properties in the main front line Galaxies too, as they have Eyrie and Solahma Clusters.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 27 September 2015, 00:50:25
I'm a big fan of Delta for its colour scheme myself.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 27 September 2015, 09:17:30
Mu Galaxy and the 5th Falcon Regulars were always a favourite.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 08 October 2015, 09:30:42
So we still don't knowmuch about the fall of Arc-Royal, beyond the apparent and well-deserved dearh of the Exiles. However, AR is home to a lot of manufacturing goodies, and I was wondering if there were any that Falcon players would enjoy getting their hands on. Assuming they're not reduced to  so much radioactive rubble, that is.

Here's a few that strike me as fun

Arctic Wolf II - this isn't a bad little Omni, and its speed would work decently with Falcon light stars. Plus it jumps so you can DFA people, which is allways a plus.

Hellstar is not nice - the Falcons allready use this beast, but having a production line for it would be great.

Isgrem - again, the Falcons use this, but presumably in limited, what they can get numbers. It's a beast, and would definitely fit the current Falcon approach. Plus as a bonus, it's the good version, not the flying deathtraps the Empire use

Jagatai and Avar - because being able to produce your own Omnifighters is good
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 08 October 2015, 12:42:38
Does it say anywhere where Malvina and Alek's sibko was based and which training school they went to ? Eg Blackjacks?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 08 October 2015, 12:57:26
Does it say anywhere where Malvina and Alek's sibko was based and which training school they went to ? Eg Blackjacks?

It's mentioned in Flight of the Falcon. IIRC it's Sudeten
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 08 October 2015, 13:15:28
Were they driving Mechs yet or were they still too young?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 08 October 2015, 21:34:07
So we still don't knowmuch about the fall of Arc-Royal, beyond the apparent and well-deserved dearh of the Exiles. However, AR is home to a lot of manufacturing goodies, and I was wondering if there were any that Falcon players would enjoy getting their hands on. Assuming they're not reduced to  so much radioactive rubble, that is.

Here's a few that strike me as fun

Arctic Wolf II - this isn't a bad little Omni, and its speed would work decently with Falcon light stars. Plus it jumps so you can DFA people, which is allways a plus.

Hellstar is not nice - the Falcons allready use this beast, but having a production line for it would be great.

Isgrem - again, the Falcons use this, but presumably in limited, what they can get numbers. It's a beast, and would definitely fit the current Falcon approach. Plus as a bonus, it's the good version, not the flying deathtraps the Empire use

Jagatai and Avar - because being able to produce your own Omnifighters is good

Oh man, they might even pick up Cuchulainns, right? The idea of Falcon Cuchulainns is terrifying and thrilling in all kinds of ways, although it would break their whole not-giving-a-shit-about-fire theme for their battle armor.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 08 October 2015, 22:53:43
Oh man, they might even pick up Cuchulainns, right? The idea of Falcon Cuchulainns is terrifying and thrilling in all kinds of ways, although it would break their whole not-giving-a-shit-about-fire theme for their battle armor.

Simple - just give them some cosmetic talons & claws, and rename them after some other Celtic war deity. Or call them Malvinas ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 09 October 2015, 02:44:47
They liked the Afreet so much they made a fire-resistant version, maybe you'll see that with these too.

If we get a battle armor called Malvina, I want to use it to call in orbital strikes. :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 09 October 2015, 02:57:07
So we still don't knowmuch about the fall of Arc-Royal, beyond the apparent and well-deserved dearh of the Exiles. However, AR is home to a lot of manufacturing goodies, and I was wondering if there were any that Falcon players would enjoy getting their hands on. Assuming they're not reduced to  so much radioactive rubble, that is.

Here's a few that strike me as fun

Arctic Wolf II - this isn't a bad little Omni, and its speed would work decently with Falcon light stars. Plus it jumps so you can DFA people, which is allways a plus.

Hellstar is not nice - the Falcons allready use this beast, but having a production line for it would be great.

Isgrem - again, the Falcons use this, but presumably in limited, what they can get numbers. It's a beast, and would definitely fit the current Falcon approach. Plus as a bonus, it's the good version, not the flying deathtraps the Empire use

Jagatai and Avar - because being able to produce your own Omnifighters is good
I am voting ash myself. There are only a few not duplicated elsewhere.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 09 October 2015, 07:25:20
If we get a battle armor called Malvina, I want to use them as ammunition in orbital strikes. :D

Fixed that for you  8)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 09 October 2015, 20:26:19
Bah! That's what Quad-Vees are for. It's only a natural progression that the pony boys graduate from being cannon-fodder to being cannon-fire!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 October 2015, 18:42:46
How come people like Jade Falcons? A lot of people seem to really identify with them...

Why are you guys into Jade Falcons?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 October 2015, 18:48:54
Because I like my Clanners aggressive, ruthless, and separate from the uncontrolled breeds of the Inner Sphere.

No Care Bears, Lyran lapdogs, or Kuritan kitties need apply. Might is right, and we are the might.

The Falcons have gotten enough air time to have a distinct identity. They don't always win - their "fiat shield" fails when clashed directly with major plotlines, so there's less of the hint of muchkin about them. And they have plenty of flaws. Ooohhhh boy, do they have flaws O0

And green & yellow always looks good. Delta forever!  >:D

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 12 October 2015, 20:15:11
If I remember correctly I first got into JF because they had the coolest emblem option in whatever game I was playing.  The Jade Phoenix trilogy helped cement it I guess. 

They are an interesting mix too.  They're the purest clan and yet the most progressive. They are what they are and they don't apologize to anyone(or any clan) for it.  Sure if there's an uprising on a planet they'll practically scorch the place to quell it, but when the populace is willing to play ball the falcons will more or less let them go on with their lives uninterrupted.

I do think Malvina is taking things too far and will eventually be ousted, but if her predecessor can find a middle ground between mongol and traditional, Jade Falcon will be unstoppable.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 12 October 2015, 20:30:51
Until Malvina took over, the Jade Falcons were the Clans' Clan.

Every other Clan's discerning feature/identity/flavour is based on how far and in which direction they stray from what is quintessentially 'Clan'. A good steak doesn't need three types of sauce, a marinade, a rub, and four spices.

The Jade Falcons were the true, the pure, the baseline.

We'll see if Malvina is an exciting diversion or the flaming finale.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 12 October 2015, 21:58:51
Because they weren't known for being the Clan of bankers or anything  O:-)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 12 October 2015, 22:25:01
How come people like Jade Falcons? A lot of people seem to really identify with them...

Why are you guys into Jade Falcons?

Because I hate all of the Clans, with no exception. Soulless morons, and that's their good days.

But sometimes you just wanna play Clan. So I decided that if I'm going to play a bastard, I might as well play THE bastard. The Smoke Jaguars are dead and thus don't get the latest toys, the Falcons are the worst of what's left so...there you go. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 October 2015, 22:32:21
Because I hate all of the Clans, with no exception. Soulless morons, and that's their good days.

But sometimes you just wanna play Clan. So I decided that if I'm going to play a bastard, I might as well play THE bastard. The Smoke Jaguars are dead and thus don't get the latest toys, the Falcons are the worst of what's left so...there you go. :)

Were you previously a jaguar?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 12 October 2015, 22:43:52
For me, a lot of it is their undying persistence in pursuing their goals.

I had been aware of Battletech for many years, but Mechwarrior 2 is what really got me into it. CJF had vision and captured the imagination: https://youtu.be/rEf7r314_cQ

The Clan has an interesting array of characters, from mustache twirlers like Vandervahn Chistu and Elias Crichell, to honorable jerks like Aidan Pryde, misanthropes like Joanna, brutally effective administrators like Marthe Pryde, nutcases like Malvina Hazen and Nicholai Malthus, to Kael Pershaw, who epitomizes resilience. And he can bring a gun to a fist-fight and get away with it.

And the portrayal of the Clan isn't purely negative, as a one-dimensional evil just to be evil kind of faction that BT can suffer from on occasion. They can be the honorable villain, the bloodthirsty invader, or the misguided anti-hero. Maybe even all at the same time.

And they have plenty of flaws. Ooohhhh boy, do they have flaws O0
O0

They are an interesting mix too.  They're the purest clan and yet the most progressive. They are what they are and they don't apologize to anyone(or any clan) for it.  Sure if there's an uprising on a planet they'll practically scorch the place to quell it, but when the populace is willing to play ball the falcons will more or less let them go on with their lives uninterrupted.

I feel like there's an underlying pragmatic streak that pops up. Malvina Hazen sees that run rampant, fueled on pent-up frustration.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 12 October 2015, 22:46:09
Were you previously a jaguar?

Even more bastardly: SLDF. 8)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 October 2015, 22:47:03
Because I like to embrace the crazy.

To be Jade Falcon is to be more then a little on the insane side. Everything they do is just that little bit over the top, a little bit melodromatic and a little overdone for the sake of it. Unifroms, BattleMech designs, colour schemes... you name it. And it goes further  then that; their heroes have been the ones who were crazy and unconventional and made it work.

In addtion, they are amazingly flexible for a supposedly conservative Clan. They change when they need to, and adapt to new circumstances. They made a Lyran-Born man the head of their merchant caste, and let him restrucutree their economy. Aiden Pryde got so good at Death from Above attacks that they built weapons and 'Mechs specifically to take advantage of that. At the same time, they don't shy away from what they are; if everyone else wants to paint them as the bad guy, then they will be the most terrifying bad guy you have ever met.

Also, Elziabeth Hazen is a total badarse

Also also, snappy green everything
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 October 2015, 22:53:25
Were you previously a jaguar?

I was. Smoke Jaguar to Ice Hellion to Jade Falcon.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 October 2015, 23:21:33
I think that it's really interesting.

Wolf players it's a lot more idealistic. I'd go so far as to say that a Wolf Players ideal self is a clan wolf warrior. This sort of moral tribal soldier. It's incredibly associative. They really identify with it.

Falcon players seem to be disassociative. A sort of, "Sometimes I want to be a bastard." Sort of thing.

Alternatively Sea Fox players as far as I can tell are just a bunch of dudes with Liberal Arts degrees. (That's not actually true. I'm shooting for applied sciences, I know one professor and one chef.)

Anyways. I'm still interested. Was just kind of curious because of the, "Are we the baddies?" Aspect of it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 October 2015, 23:31:56
You see, we'd hardly agree that the Wolves represented any sort of "ideal". They're far too soft and fluffy; they accept freeborn into their highest offices, they show far too much softness to their lower castes, and have slipped from the purity of Kerensky's vision via this lack of focus.

(OOC - the Clan way, in its purest form, is disfunctional because it does completely subordinate all else to "might is right". The Wolves have taken a rational stance on some of this. OOC I can admire it, but IC it's a fall from grace ;)  And remember, the fiercest wars are fought between brothers ...)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 13 October 2015, 01:21:33
Indeed. To me, the original Clan Wolf was always Clan PeaceTech, Clan Davion, Clan 'Western Sensibilities'.

Clan Snoozefest.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 13 October 2015, 06:18:30
How come people like Jade Falcons? A lot of people seem to really identify with them...

Why are you guys into Jade Falcons?

I started off liking the Wolves for their pragmatism but they were so...vanilla.  After losing repeatedly to another player who chose the Wolves ahead of me while I played the Falcons, I became determined to beat him as a Falcon and eventually began to dominate him (Learning to play the Falcon Trinity of Kit Fox, Hellbringer, and Summoner took some time as they tend to be oriented to finesse rather than brawling; the learning curve can be pretty steep). 

As I examined the Falcon Clan closely, I saw their drive to be the best and promptly liked it. Consistently, you can/could find them within the top 5 of any combat arm rated against their peers.  The Falcons often have to work twice as hard for half the glory.  Some of this is due to their many flaws and blowhard, conservative ways.  Despite being conservative they can be flexible when it's called for.  Even so they're far from perfect (as some Wolf players I've run across claim for themselves), work hard to be the best, and aren't afraid to trumpet their power.  If you war with them, you will know you were in a heckuva fight. The boasting isn't empty. Because of sound leadership and military prowess, they became one of the most powerful Clans. They have a great selection of war machines for beating your enemy into a pulp. Which they should stay as if they know what's good for them.

They are FUN to roleplay.  You can say and do things that would often cause the death of other characters if they did them. You get away with it because you are a JADE FALCON. It's expected that you'll say outrageous things. Just be ready to back them up. Some of the best satisfaction I've had ATOWing is somehow managing to make a roll that I shouldn't have and winning some action to verify some boastful thing I said.

Boiled down, being a Falcon means never having to say you're sorry; you can make them be sorry.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 October 2015, 10:01:59
Boiled down, being a Falcon means never having to say you're sorry; you can make them be sorry.

Welp, this thread is done for; someone has finally Falconed hard enough.

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m35hosfU9h1r4t9h1o2_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 13 October 2015, 10:05:24
I started off liking the Wolves for their pragmatism but they were so...vanilla.  After losing repeatedly to another player who chose the Wolves ahead of me while I played the Falcons, I became determined to beat him as a Falcon and eventually began to dominate him (Learning to play the Falcon Trinity of Kit Fox, Hellbringer, and Summoner took some time as they tend to be oriented to finesse rather than brawling; the learning curve can be pretty steep). 

As I examined the Falcon Clan closely, I saw their drive to be the best and promptly liked it. Consistently, you can/could find them within the top 5 of any combat arm rated against their peers.  The Falcons often have to work twice as hard for half the glory.  Some of this is due to their many flaws and blowhard, conservative ways.  Despite being conservative they can be flexible when it's called for.  Even so they're far from perfect (as some Wolf players I've run across claim for themselves), work hard to be the best, and aren't afraid to trumpet their power.  If you war with them, you will know you were in a heckuva fight. The boasting isn't empty. Because of sound leadership and military prowess, they became one of the most powerful Clans. They have a great selection of war machines for beating your enemy into a pulp. Which they should stay as if they know what's good for them.

They are FUN to roleplay.  You can say and do things that would often cause the death of other characters if they did them. You get away with it because you are a JADE FALCON. It's expected that you'll say outrageous things. Just be ready to back them up. Some of the best satisfaction I've had ATOWing is somehow managing to make a roll that I shouldn't have and winning some action to verify some boastful thing I said.

Boiled down, being a Falcon means never having to say you're sorry; you can make them be sorry.

Says it better than anything I could have put.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 13 October 2015, 10:07:12
Boiled down, being a Falcon means never having to say you're sorry; you can make them be sorry.

Preach it, brother.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 13 October 2015, 12:31:02
I think that it's really interesting.

Wolf players it's a lot more idealistic. I'd go so far as to say that a Wolf Players ideal self is a clan wolf warrior. This sort of moral tribal soldier. It's incredibly associative. They really identify with it.

Falcon players seem to be disassociative. A sort of, "Sometimes I want to be a bastard." Sort of thing.

Alternatively Sea Fox players as far as I can tell are just a bunch of dudes with Liberal Arts degrees. (That's not actually true. I'm shooting for applied sciences, I know one professor and one chef.)

Anyways. I'm still interested. Was just kind of curious because of the, "Are we the baddies?" Aspect of it.

I’m an “idealistic” Falcon.  I’ve never seen the Falcons as bad guys.  They are just another faction that wants to subjugate the IS and reform the Star League in their image – the same thing all the Great Houses want to do.  In fact I always saw the clan invasion as the overnight creation of a new successor state – nothing more. 

What I like about them over other clans, is that they are open about what they are trying to do.  I also really like the honor aspect.  Too often in pop culture success is equated with abandoning honor.  The Jade Falcons get to be honorable and successful (till the DA when they become a bit cliche). 

Here’s how we see the universe.  We are a faction that needs to liberate the IS from the Great Houses because they deliberately destroyed the greatest civilization in human history to satisfy their greed.  Indeed, conquest by the clans is liberation.  Among the clans we need to be/are leaders because we have never strayed from the Kerensky way (I’m looking at you Wolves). 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 14 October 2015, 11:11:29
I’m an “idealistic” Falcon.  I’ve never seen the Falcons as bad guys.  They are just another faction that wants to subjugate the IS and reform the Star League in their image – the same thing all the Great Houses want to do.  In fact I always saw the clan invasion as the overnight creation of a new successor state – nothing more. 

What I like about them over other clans, is that they are open about what they are trying to do.  I also really like the honor aspect.  Too often in pop culture success is equated with abandoning honor.  The Jade Falcons get to be honorable and successful (till the DA when they become a bit cliche). 

Here’s how we see the universe.  We are a faction that needs to liberate the IS from the Great Houses because they deliberately destroyed the greatest civilization in human history to satisfy their greed.  Indeed, conquest by the clans is liberation.  Among the clans we need to be/are leaders because we have never strayed from the Kerensky way (I’m looking at you Wolves).

There's not a word in this post I disagree with. Well put, sir!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 14 October 2015, 11:29:40
I see it differently.  The Falcons are so convinced of their own self righteous cause that they don't really care about the occasional lapse in honor.  It isn't the habitual, intentional subversion of the Clan honor system in order to get what they like, ala Clan Wolf.  But, make no mistake, the Falcons are fine with a little Dezgra action, here or there and trying to take the moral high ground afterward.

And that's why I like them.  Instead of being "Aren't we clever?" the Falcons will breach their honor when needed and act like nothing happened.  It is that sort of self serving hypocrisy that I do love.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 14 October 2015, 16:31:30
Any other Falcons get a good laugh out of JadeHellbringer being the one to lock the the wolf thread?  ;D

And on page 49.   >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 October 2015, 16:37:36
Any other Falcons get a good laugh out of JadeHellbringer being the one to lock the the wolf thread?  ;D

And on page 49.   >:D

Quality  :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: False Son on 14 October 2015, 16:39:21
By that point it wasn't about Clan Wolf anymore, but taking shots at the maddening concept of Jade Falcon success.

At any rate, let us practice better thread hygiene in our own OZ.  So about them Falcons...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 October 2015, 16:43:44
So what's the best composition for a Falcon front line Cluster.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 14 October 2015, 16:44:52
Which era?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 14 October 2015, 16:49:27
I’m an “idealistic” Falcon.  I’ve never seen the Falcons as bad guys.  They are just another faction that wants to subjugate the IS and reform the Star League in their image – the same thing all the Great Houses want to do.  In fact I always saw the clan invasion as the overnight creation of a new successor state – nothing more. 

What I like about them over other clans, is that they are open about what they are trying to do.  I also really like the honor aspect.  Too often in pop culture success is equated with abandoning honor.  The Jade Falcons get to be honorable and successful (till the DA when they become a bit cliche). 

Here’s how we see the universe.  We are a faction that needs to liberate the IS from the Great Houses because they deliberately destroyed the greatest civilization in human history to satisfy their greed.  Indeed, conquest by the clans is liberation.  Among the clans we need to be/are leaders because we have never strayed from the Kerensky way (I’m looking at you Wolves). 
There's not a word in this post I disagree with. Well put, sir!

Indeed.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 October 2015, 16:52:22
Which era?

Dark ages.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 October 2015, 18:02:14
So what's the best composition for a Falcon front line Cluster.

All the rage in existence.

(Dark Age, add talons. And some black eyeliner.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 14 October 2015, 18:29:56
So what's the best composition for a Falcon front line Cluster.
All the rage in existence.

(Dark Age, add talons. And some black eyeliner.)

Don't forget the warship.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 14 October 2015, 18:38:55
All the rage in existence.

(Dark Age, add talons. And some black eyeliner.)


Don't forget the warship.

Be cheaper if you guys dropped rocks.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 14 October 2015, 18:48:28
Be cheaper if you guys dropped rocks.

Rocks don't have the 'statement' value of a Nightlord.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 14 October 2015, 19:00:36
Any other Falcons get a good laugh out of JadeHellbringer being the one to lock the the wolf thread?  ;D

And on page 49.   >:D

A new thread had started, that one was going to need to be locked in the next few posts anyway... my joke in there aside, don't EVER go thinking I lock threads because of some silly faction bias. I'd just as easily lock this one or any other thread on the forums if they reach Page 50, and have on many occasions.

There's a thousand and one good reasons to poke fun at the Wolves and their fans. My mod duties aren't one of them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 14 October 2015, 19:12:13
A new thread had started, that one was going to need to be locked in the next few posts anyway... my joke in there aside, don't EVER go thinking I lock threads because of some silly faction bias. I'd just as easily lock this one or any other thread on the forums if they reach Page 50, and have on many occasions.

There's a thousand and one good reasons to poke fun at the Wolves and their fans. My mod duties aren't one of them.

I have no doubt you're telling the truth, but that doesn't make it any less funny.   O:-)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 15 October 2015, 01:48:06
On the subject of Cluster composition and tactics in the Dark Age, are there some canon examples of what the Falcons are using? Recently picked up FM:3145, and it's a bit light on details. Mixed Clusters will probably be fairly versatile, but do they include conventional forces? Forces using the Mongol Doctrine have fast light units supporting heavier units. Hell's Horses seems to use light vehicles and heavy mechs (according to pg.208), but is this directly mirrored by the Falcons, or would they use light mechs instead of vehicles?

Anything in the TROs or fiction that shed some light on this?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 15 October 2015, 11:24:34
In the Early DA all forces, including Turkina Keshik, are combined arms – to include vehicles and conventional infantry.  As the DA progresses and manufacturing across the IS picks up, forces start to rebuild you’ll probably see a lot more traditional organization.  So trending to a mech based force supported by BA and fighters.  But there’s no reason you couldn’t have some vehicles and conventional infantry as a legacy of the earlier period if you wanted.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 15 October 2015, 13:53:51
So by 3145 we are probably seeing a front line cluster composition of:-

Command Star
3 Mech Trianaries
Battle Armour Trinary
AeroFighter Trinary

As we did in the 3050's
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 15 October 2015, 14:05:44
So by 3145 we are probably seeing a front line cluster composition of:-

Command Star
3 Mech Trianaries
Battle Armour Trinary
AeroFighter Trinary

As we did in the 3050's
Don't forget, Malvina has been heavily influenced by the horses and has been recruiting from even civilians. It's quite possible the falcons are still going combined arms.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 October 2015, 18:50:26
I'd imagine that your average Frontline cluster has a binary or trinary of vees, but mostly as support elements like artillery and troop transports
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 15 October 2015, 20:19:54
So while the mechs and battle armor are different, I guess a Dark Age CJF raiding force would look similar to those from previous era? Except maybe the battle armor transports are now fighting alongside their troopers.

I could see second-line Clusters having a greater mix of conventional troops outside of support roles, given the usual supply and personnel shortages.

Been considering a 3145 CJF nova or binary as a project for next year.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 15 October 2015, 21:47:53
We know the Falcons have been buying Carnivores from the Wolves, so I'm guessing they still have some use for tanks other that transports.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 October 2015, 22:48:11
I like using the Standard and HAG Carnivores in pairs in the same point. The Standard opens the enemy up, then the HAG goes to town on the squishy innards.

I once had a hillarious "nice shooting" moment with that duo. Both of them opened up on an Exile Heimdall at 10+ hits because I felt like it. The Standard missed with both Gauses. The HAGivore hits... and gets 32 pellets, the most it could roll at long range anyway. And to make it even better, the stray "two" immobilised it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 16 October 2015, 01:17:37
Falcon vehicle formations are really pretty nifty. I would not think twice about a 2 'Mech, 2 conventional/infantry, 1 Aerospace setup for a Cluster. They've got HAGnivores, Gurzils, and some Huitzilopochtli variants that we don't have stats for yet for assaults. Nothing comes to mind for heavy tanks, but then they've got Chalchiuhtotolins, Skandas, Skadis, Nacons...all sorts of nice stuff, or at least usable stuff. The upgraded ferrolam Chalchiuhtotolins are particularly horrifying.

Really, I would think that an idealized Dark Age Falcon force would probably be using vehicles as the main assault formation, and then using the incredible mobility of their new 'Mechs to put additional guns where they're most needed. There's plenty of exceptions to that, of course, but the exceptions (Hels, Turkinas, Jupiters, etc.) tend to have lots of very useful properties of their own (prop·er·ty /ˈpräpərdē/ noun definition: gun).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 16 October 2015, 01:21:28
Unfortunately away from my books, but there are some cracking battles in the latter books with Falcons laying down the wroth on Lyrans.

I do clearly recall vehicles being involved, but can't say whether they were integrated at the star or binary/trinary level. Will check the books tonight, with luck.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 16 October 2015, 03:02:39
We know the Falcons have been buying Carnivores from the Wolves, so I'm guessing they still have some use for tanks other that transports.

True, but I'm looking at a difference between front-line and second-line Clusters. Lambda Galaxy would be much more likely to deploy armor in an offensive force than a front-line Cluster in Vau or Omega Galaxy. And that's the sorta thing I'm trying to get a feel for, what a CJF attack force looks like in the 3140s.

It does looks like there are some good options for light and medium vehicles, with MWDA models being an option for some.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 16 October 2015, 08:11:43
I had been aware of Battletech for many years, but Mechwarrior 2 is what really got me into it. CJF had vision and captured the imagination: https://youtu.be/rEf7r314_cQ

For me, it was the intro that got my attention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7_rSyRD8XM
So amazing.

If I would not dislike the clans so much, I might think about being a Falcon just because of that intro.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 16 October 2015, 20:24:47
Crud. Vehicle stars are expensive, in more ways than one. Ten vehicles racks up some high PV/BV2. And there also needs to be a Skanda model that's easily acquirable. The Gurzil could use a model, too.

Looking at vehicles, I like some of their slower machines, like the Chalchiuhtotolin and the Carnivore.

For me, it was the intro that got my attention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7_rSyRD8XM
So amazing.

If I would not dislike the clans so much, I might think about being a Falcon just because of that intro.

There's never been a better time to go green.  O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 18 October 2015, 09:16:45
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/1S.jpg)

Made my interpretation of the insignia for the 1st Falcon Strikers Cluster; 'a peregrine in full pursuit of a larger flying reptile'.

I really wanted to do it in colour but I couldn't get the shapes to look right on the falcon (dark ash blue body top and whitish undersides).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 18 October 2015, 10:55:57
Black and gray looks good.  Has a very tribal appearance.

Make the Falcon eyes a jade green, and maybe that's the only color you need, quineg? 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 18 October 2015, 16:52:24
Piercing green eyes on a black falcon is the distinguishing feature of the Falcon Guard insignia - I wouldn't want to have them be that similar. I'll just have to take a break and revisit this when I can think of a way to make it look good in colour.

In the meantime this can serve as somewhat of a 'low-visibility roundel' dirtside I guess. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Von Jankmon on 19 October 2015, 13:02:46
How come people like Jade Falcons? A lot of people seem to really identify with them...

Why are you guys into Jade Falcons?

It was 60% Stackpole 40% Thurston.

I hate Stackpoles writing, when he applies fiat to a hero its in your face with a double helping of smugness.  I chose House Liao as my first faction when I started Battletech in the 80's, because they were underdogs.  When we had personal campaigns most chose a heavy or assault company or premium mechs, at the time clans didn't exist.  My personal company was light-medium militia, and more light than medium.  I wasn't interested in gaining 'weight' I was happy to fight over scraps in Locusts.
Anyway I digress, along came Lethal Heritage, about six months after I started regularly playing again.  I quickly learned to hate Phelan, because the smug little git had no flaws, a smart answer to anything and anything opposing him might as well pack up and go home, because he will win and smile when he does so.  Stackpole isn't that great a plot writer either, he makes his heroes look smart by making his enemies completely stupid whenever they oppose the heroes directly.
Phelan isn't the only culprit, there are arguments to say Allard Jnr and Prince Victor are worse, but Victor had humanising flaws, he also lost once in a while, and Allard did heroic stuff but didnt generally mess around in high politics.
Phelan on the other hand spammed the win button like a kiddie on a console, to ub3r pow3r and became a Khan.

It wasnt the Wolves fault I hated them, I rather like Wolves as animals, more so than Falcons, never really been a bird fan.

Two years passed and I picked up Way of the Clans, and loved the Jade Falcons from the first page.  I was re-introduced to them from their perspective, and saw it from the sibko up.  Which is the way to be introduced the the clans.  They are too needlessly brutal for my liking to be honest, but this is a game background and brutality is fine, so I set that aside.  Yet they knew loyalty and sense of purpose, and other virtues I admire and they knew compassion, even if it was buried deep.
Most of all they had heroes, but those heroes had flaws.

I have never had a single moments problem with Aidan Pryde's fiat, even though it technically went over the top as Tukkayid.  Tukkayid was fine because Aidan paid the ultimate price.  Everything up to then was Aidan the underdog, and Horse would be an underdog all his years because he was a freebirth.  Marthe had guilt issues, Joanna just had Issues.  They were likable heroes, followable heroes, heroes I could root for.

If Phelan defended the Prezno plain extraction site, I just know he would escape without a scratch with a cocksure smile and having killed twice as many Com Guard, and he would have a smug one liner to toss off when boarding the dropship that the universe would remould itself around and make true and wise.

It was the writing of ther six intro books to the clans that made me a Jade Falcon.

Everything else, the clan its fluff its choices and histories is why I stayed faction loyal long enough that I will always be Jade Falcon.  Its odd then that I normally play 3025, and one of my mates who collects Jade Falcons plays them, and I oppose him.  To my knowledge I have only twice played clans on the tabletop, both as Wolf opfor to my Jade Falcon playing buddy.
He is also a Jade Falcon because of the novels, I lent my set to him.  But only he went as far as to collect them, I still like playing 3025 though.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Von Jankmon on 19 October 2015, 13:07:32
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/1S.jpg)

Made my interpretation of the insignia for the 1st Falcon Strikers Cluster; 'a peregrine in full pursuit of a larger flying reptile'.

I really wanted to do it in colour but I couldn't get the shapes to look right on the falcon (dark ash blue body top and whitish undersides).

I think your image would look better in colour, and think it could be done.  However miltiary insignia often has a two tone low vis version for field use.  This could be it, the colours look right for low vis field insignia.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fowl Weather Friend on 19 October 2015, 16:43:43

First off, I love that logo Bren! 


What are some good light and medium 'mechs that were produced by our Clan, or widely used by?   I already have an Eyrie and Gyrfalcon, but I'd like to have a couple more options. 

Planning on getting
-Cougar
-Black Lanner
-Kit Fox
-Shadow Cat (A Nova Cat 'mech, but I like the sculpt)
-Spirit

Also, I know the Turkina is pretty boss, but what's the word on the Night Gyr and Shadow Cat II?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 October 2015, 17:14:06
If you want to go all the way to post-Jihad, the Falcons also produce the Black Hawk.

Myself I like the Night Gyr, though some of it's configurations are... interesting. It does have issues with its critical spaces, but those are far from terrible.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 October 2015, 22:36:14
FFF: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/15
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 20 October 2015, 04:34:48
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/1S_colour.jpg)

Ok, took a stab at colour since you believed in me Von Jankmon ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 20 October 2015, 13:25:14
Anyone wanna start a betting pool on how Malvina kicks the bucket?

Myself, I'm going for dying at the hands of a Hogarth due to a combination of her own paranoia and insanity, as well as the Hogarth's sheer incompetence setting off a domino-chain of events that outside observers (read: us) find hilarious.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 October 2015, 15:59:01
Narrative forces demand she's defeated either by Alaric Wolf, Roderick Steiner, or at a stretch Julian Davion. No other outcome would discredit the Mongol philosophy. Hogarthing Malvina would turn the Mongols into a more vicious, unthinking genocidal force. Than they already are, that is.

IMHO anyway.

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 20 October 2015, 16:04:15
I'm hoping for a curveball via Malvina's "pet".  I'd hate to see something like that through a game book though.  I want to read that story in a novel.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 20 October 2015, 19:43:35
No other outcome would discredit the Mongol philosophy.

Noritomo Helmer?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 20 October 2015, 21:19:48
Shadow Cat II: Meh. It's ok, but I'm not a fan personally. Makes for an interesting anti-aircraft platform, but it's a bit undergunned for its size. (Some humor- if you build it as listed in the MWDA dossier, it comes up with 1.5 tons of armor. And you thought the Hellbringer was rough!)

Night Gyr: Mini is a joke. Boooo. And the stats? Oh hell yes. It's a bit slow for a Clan heavy, but the jets help in that regard. And because it skimped on the engine, it's just cavernous in terms of pod space- this is the assault a Falcon should use, even if it's a few tons shy of the official designation. It's one of the few Omnis that (to me) lacks a real dog config- they all are pretty good really, some more than others. I personally adore the H- one of the few H configs that doesn't overheat, in fact it's neutral despite three heavy-hitting weapons and a backup laser. They don't keep up well with mobile battles, but they dominate the area they can make it to. One of the Falcons' best hidden weapons... And, according to the WoR supplemental, it's going the way of the dodo quickly.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 October 2015, 22:10:52
Anyone wanna start a betting pool on how Malvina kicks the bucket?

Myself, I'm going for dying at the hands of a Hogarth due to a combination of her own paranoia and insanity, as well as the Hogarth's sheer incompetence setting off a domino-chain of events that outside observers (read: us) find hilarious.

My money is she is killed by Tucker Harwell in a cage match!!!

Alaric Wolf killing her doesn't fill right. I hope that Trillian Steiner gets her... and survives. Trillian Steiner is the next Hansen Davion/Ulrich Kerensky in my book. On one hands things look really really bad for the Lyrans. But if anybody can bring it back it's TrillRoderick Steiner.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 20 October 2015, 22:59:29
The Shadow Cat II 3 is pretty handy, if only because two dozen Streak SRM tubes is never not handy. The rest of them are tolerable but I wouldn't use them on purpose.

The Night Gyr is an incredible walking pile of guns and I'm sad that it's no longer manufactured. In 3145 it feels wrong to give one to anyone less than a Star Captain. Happily, the Night Gyr-shaped hole in the Falcon arsenal is pretty easy to paper over with the Hel and Flamberge. Oh, and the Executioner got a bunch of cool new variants and I think the Falcons still have some of those. It used to be pretty common on their RATs, although it looks like in 3145 it's been largely replaced by the various flavors of Shrike.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 20 October 2015, 23:22:37
Anyone wanna start a betting pool on how Malvina kicks the bucket?

I have said it before and I will say it again; under the foot/tread of a CHH QuadVee.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 20 October 2015, 23:44:18
I have said it before and I will say it again; under the foot/tread of a CHH QuadVee.

I'd say that I can get behind this, but I'm afraid of also being trampled by the QuadVee.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 21 October 2015, 01:54:36
Malvina will be in front of the trampling quad vee, 99% likely, so you have a small 1% (+/-) of dying.  While these numbers won't make a calculator produce a happy face, they are better than Sianese Roulette.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 21 October 2015, 02:17:49
Ok, took a stab at colour since you believed in me Von Jankmon ...

I think the color version is working better. The black version places more emphasis on the lizard than the falcon, on account of the extra detail. The color contrast on gives the falcon more prominence in the second design.

I'm hoping for a curveball via Malvina's "pet".  I'd hate to see something like that through a game book though.  I want to read that story in a novel.

This seems like a particularly poetic ending for Malvina, given what I've read about her. I agree on the portrayal of the act, even if it's only short fiction in a supplement instead of a clinical paragraph. It'd be even more interesting if it was set in some way as a valid trial.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 21 October 2015, 09:43:34
I suspect a nuking.  If you live by the Mongol Doctrine, you’ll die by the Mongol Doctrine.

Seriously, if I was in charge of defending what’s left of the Lyran Commonwealth or Republic, I’d have a special wing of nuclear armed fighters in strategic reserve waiting for her to appear.  As soon as she arrives on a battlefield, they move as fast as possible to her location and blow everything away regardless of collateral damage.  She’s just too good a mechwarrior to leave it to conventional combat. 

And I suspect she dies on Terra at the hands of the Republic just prior to the Alaric/Stone fight.  Sort of like King Harold of England defeating Harold Hadrada, then going to Hastings to die at the hands of the William the Conqueror.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Von Jankmon on 21 October 2015, 13:35:15
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/1S_colour.jpg)

Ok, took a stab at colour since you believed in me Von Jankmon ...

Belief justified.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 21 October 2015, 17:31:53
I'll take 'shivved in the back by Cinthy just before her greatest triumph'. That kid is just too... weird. Either she's the tool of Malvina's demise, or will someday rise up as the kind of monster that even Malvina would find horrifying.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 21 October 2015, 19:33:58
I'll take 'shivved in the back by Cinthy just before her greatest triumph'. That kid is just too... weird. Either she's the tool of Malvina's demise, or will someday rise up as the kind of monster that even Malvina would find horrifying.

No no no.  This deserves better than that.  I want something like a trial of possession for the clan right in the middle of of a raging battle.  Make the battle with another clan so both sides stay out of it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 21 October 2015, 20:32:17
I'll take 'shivved in the back by Cinthy just before her greatest triumph'. That kid is just too... weird. Either she's the tool of Malvina's demise, or will someday rise up as the kind of monster that even Malvina would find horrifying.

If Cynthy ever speaks, it would be to go 'la la la la la laaaaa' in a creepy way
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fowl Weather Friend on 21 October 2015, 22:40:04
The Night Gyr is an incredible walking pile of guns.....

Ohh, the Night Gyr sounds fun!   

It's a drag they aren't still being made in the Dark Age, all of my minis are in our Clan's Dark Age scheme.  This could be a good chance to try out Delta Galaxy's scheme and build an Invasion Era force, but I've never let something as trivial as cannon stop me. 

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 21 October 2015, 23:53:22
The Falcons still use the Night Gyr in the Dark Ages; its on their RAT and at least one appeared in a novel. They're far from extinct, but probably would be uncommon.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 22 October 2015, 01:19:10
... its on their RAT ...

Which RAT? I only have one and it's not there.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 22 October 2015, 04:55:43
Which RAT? I only have one and it's not there.

It's on the Falcon RAT in FM 3145, slot 22 (which means that it can only be found in the Raptor and Turkina Keshiks, effectively).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 22 October 2015, 06:27:49
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/1S_colour.jpg)

Ok, took a stab at colour since you believed in me Von Jankmon ...

Just catching up on the thread....this is beautiful, Bren.  I'd get a couple of patches if any were made.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 22 October 2015, 13:52:05
The Falcons still use the Night Gyr in the Dark Ages; its on their RAT and at least one appeared in a novel. They're far from extinct, but probably would be uncommon.

Oh I don't mean 'extinct' as in 'none exist'- there aren't many Mech designs in history that we can say that about. But certainly the factories that made it in the Homeworlds don't make it anymore (and aren't available to the Falcons anymore anyway), and we've seen nothing suggesting that they make it in the OZ the way the Turkina eventually was. But it's worth noting that with the Falcons producing the Jade Hawk, Thor II, and Loki II, there's not a lot of reason to be building another heavy Mech, no matter how handy it is in combat.

My bet is that while the Gyr still shows up in the Touman in a few places, the few remaining are increasingly rare- and increasingly hard to maintain.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 22 October 2015, 14:05:46
Hey, at least laser heat sinks are a bit more widespread now. That has to help the logistics at least a little.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 22 October 2015, 15:26:45
Worktroll got me thinking about Noritomo Helmer, and I forgot what Cluster he started off in - had to go back and skim through the novel. Anyway I figured I'd do the insignia of the 305th Assault Cluster;

'a swooping red falcon trailing a ring of blood around a shadowed green world'

Something's not looking quite right with it - can't put my finger on it. Maybe I've just been looking at it too long.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/305A_colour.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 22 October 2015, 15:36:49
Maybe rotate it a little? It looks good but the horizontal trail doesn't quite qualify as "swooping" to me.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Flieger on 22 October 2015, 18:29:06
Excellent stuff, Bren. Might be better in the Fan Art section, though.  O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 23 October 2015, 08:51:21
The planet looks a bit like a bowling ball.  Maybe some ice caps at the poles would make it look more like a planet?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 24 October 2015, 07:27:47
So with Republic III coming out and the Falcons possibly getting their mittens on Interface armour..do folks think that the Falcons will start putting Elestar's in that stuff?  It seems that the Falcons are now really RAWR WE ARE THE EVIL CLAN *angry bird noises* to the Nth degree and quite handidly stealing that crown from the Jaguars, it kinda makes sense at least to me.  It also goes hand in hand, Elestars are suppose to look rather inhuman and the Interface armour just ramps this up well past 11 and turns the dial up to 64.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Seras on 24 October 2015, 14:58:10
Falcons !!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 26 October 2015, 10:13:19
Maybe I’m too much of a traditionalist, but I’m not excited about interface armor of any kind – including EI.  Clan superiority should come from the breeding program not technology.  I’m not opposed to new tech, but it shouldn’t be the source of clan power.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fowl Weather Friend on 26 October 2015, 10:28:06
Maybe I’m too much of a traditionalist, but I’m not excited about interface armor of any kind – including EI.  Clan superiority should come from the breeding program not technology.  I’m not opposed to new tech, but it shouldn’t be the source of clan power.

I agree, there's a reason why the Clans have stuck with the Sibko program for so long.  Fancy toys and gizmos are no replacement for battle-tested, trueborn warriors.  I'm certain that the EI is going to come at a significant cost, both in the lore and game mechanics. 

That being said, I'm totally going to find a way to build EI into a Shrike.  Defeating the stravags of the Inner Sphere with their own technology only proves the truth of the Clan way.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 26 October 2015, 11:14:42
Incorporating Enhanced Imaging into a 'Mech is pretty simple. For all intents and purposes you go "That 'Mech has it," and then there's a small modification to the price of the cockpit and that's about it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fowl Weather Friend on 26 October 2015, 15:20:56
That'll teach me to post before having my coffee!

I thought EI was the abbreviation for the new XTRO Interface rather than Enhanced Imaging.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 26 October 2015, 16:09:07
Falcons !!

...Yeeeeeeeeessss?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 26 October 2015, 16:59:16
Going forward, I'll stop cluttering up the thread here and create a thread in the Fan Art section ...

but I figured I'd post the results of somewhat going back to the drawing board (literally) for the 305th Assault Cluster's insignia:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/305A_colour2.jpg)

Stand-out problem right away is the trail angle and falcon angle don't match up ... but I'm liking how this one feels a whole lot more.

Thanks for the feedback all - and check for a new art thread in a week or so! I'm eyeing those 12th Falcon Regulars next I think ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 26 October 2015, 17:34:59
Just make the eye bright jade green ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 26 October 2015, 19:23:07
As long as you're sticking with Jade Falcon units, I don't see how this would be clutter.

I like the planet, the trail, and the falcon(once it's eye is green), but I'm not crazy about the black.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: BaldDen on 09 November 2015, 12:22:51

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/305A_colour2.jpg)


Nice logo! O0
But black border could be thinner...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Ascension on 11 November 2015, 01:30:00
Pardon my intrusion, but since this is the Jade Falcon thread...

I've just reread the Jade Phoenix trilogy, and Ter Roshak spends a good bit of it obsessing over his former commander Roman Mattlov to an unhealthy degree... I decided to take a look at Sarna to see if Roman Mattlov himself might actually appear in fiction anywhere, and discovered in the process that FM: Crusader Clans apparently cites Mattlov as an Elemental-exclusive Bloodname post-REVIVAL, while Roman Mattlov is assuredly a 'MechWarrior in Ter Roshak's recollections.

I figure the simplest explanation would be that the Mattlov name became Elemental-exclusive between the spawning of Roman's sibko and the end of REVIVAL, with its last MechWarrior Bloodrights falling inactive? That seems a bit strange to me, but I suppose it could have been a result of the Clan's casualties during the invasion. Do you know of anything firmer than supposition that might be used to back that up?

(Honestly, cross-phenotype bloodlines confuse me in general, because Elementals and Aerospace Pilots are each so specialized that I can't imagine them being able to share much genetic material with any line from outside their phenotype without diluting the advantages of their heavy selective breeding, but that question's beyond the scope of this thread.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 November 2015, 01:59:13
It is mentioned in several cases that exclusive Bloodnames may still have bloodines that are of another Phenotype, even if only for political reasons. For example, the Falcons are very 'Mech-centric Clan, so an Elemental bloodline would normally be excluded from Khanship. By creating limited Mechwarrior lines, especially when combined with other powerful Bloodhouses (eg Pryde in this case) such a Bloodname house can get an advantage.

That's not the only reason by any means, but certainly is one of the most common.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 11 November 2015, 06:12:39
I decided to take a look at Sarna to see if Roman Mattlov himself might actually appear in fiction anywhere, and discovered in the process that FM: Crusader Clans apparently cites Mattlov as an Elemental-exclusive Bloodname post-REVIVAL, while Roman Mattlov is assuredly a 'MechWarrior in Ter Roshak's recollections.

I figure the simplest explanation would be that the Mattlov name became Elemental-exclusive between the spawning of Roman's sibko and the end of REVIVAL, with its last MechWarrior Bloodrights falling inactive? That seems a bit strange to me, but I suppose it could have been a result of the Clan's casualties during the invasion. Do you know of anything firmer than supposition that might be used to back that up?

It appears that you are laboring under a false assumption.  The exclusivity refers to control of the breeding rights for that bloodname.  That Clan has exclusive (or near exclusive) breeding rights to those bloodnames and has fought hard to keep it that way.  When a bloodname appears under MechWarrior, Elemental or Fighter phenotypes, it doesn't mean that all members of that Bloodhouse are of that phenotype.  It simply means that over time the Bloodhouse's focus shifted towards that particular branch as their line produced a significant number of talented warriors of that type and far fewer of the other types.  Those Bloodnames listed under the General category regularly produce superior warriors of all three types.

The most extreme example was Phelan's bloodright where he fought MechWarriors, an Elemental AND an aerospace pilot but there are others.  House Osis is primarily a MechWarrior bloodname, but ilKhan Lincoln Osis was an Elemental.  Ghost Bear Khan Bjorn Jorgensson was from a MechWarrior bloodhouse but ultimately tested out as an aerospace fighter and became one of the best in Clan space.  During the Clan Invasion, he faced Khan Bourjon, a MechWarrior from an Aerospace Pilot Bloodname, for the Khanship.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Ascension on 11 November 2015, 14:51:26
Ah. Thank you for the explanation.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 12 November 2015, 12:22:22
Also, don’t forget that a lot of characters were created before certain things like their associated phenotype was determined. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Ascension on 13 November 2015, 03:17:33
Having just had the occasion to do an an inventory of my old WizKids MWDA/AoD 'Mechs, I've discovered I may be a Dark Ages CJF player by default: I have more Hels/Loki Mk. IIs than any sane man knows what to do with (and more than half of them are already Falcons).

Now if I only knew what IS faction might deploy Company-sized formations of Ghosts...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 November 2015, 10:44:13

Now if I only knew what IS faction might deploy Company-sized formations of Ghosts...


Paint it up as the recon element of one of the Terran Supremacy's most elite regiments, and call them the Ghosts of the Black Watch. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 19 November 2015, 19:26:39
I have been looking through all the material I have access to and can not find any information on how current era Falcons treat tureborns who are vehicle crews. Can they even compete for a blood name should one become available?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 20 November 2015, 09:37:02
Like all trueborn warriors, they would be eligible.  But would never be nominated.  In the Falcons, it’s the second-stringers that get relegated to vehicles and conventional infantry.  So they would have to go through the grand melee. 

Also, the elephant in the room is how an augmented bloodname contest would go when a crewed vehicle is in play.  i.e. does the tanker get to bring his crew into the contest or not.  If he gets to bring them, then the bloodname would not be his accomplishment alone.  Not very clanlike.  If he doesn’t get to bring them, he is at such a disadvantage that there’s little chance of victory.  I personally suspect that the latter is true.  If you want a bloodname in the Jade Falcons, you just have to be the best, so you won’t be in a tank to begin with.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Louie N on 22 November 2015, 18:30:54
I imagine the vehicle duel to be conducted in vehicles that are one man operated. 

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 22 November 2015, 20:17:48
Got curious and took a look through a couple of my books. My Dark Age material is still a bit light, but what single-crew vehicles do you think the Falcons have reasonable numbers of for Trial purposes?

(how cool would helicopter duels be ... helicopter Grand Melee ...)
21 Donar (EDIT: two crew as per text)
25 Balac (looks like two)
25 Gossamer (looks like one)
25 Hawk Moth II (looks like one)
30 Skadi (looks like one, could be two)

(ground vehicles)
20 Asshur (looks like one crew)
20 Nacon (sounds like one from text)
30 Kite (sounds like one from text)
35 Skanda (looks like one)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 23 November 2015, 08:55:41
In Field Manual: Warden Clans, Clan Ghost Bear's Sigma Galaxy Commander is a Galaxy Commander Aleksandr, originally trained as a MechWarrior, but badly injured in his Trial of Position before earning a single kill. After a year of recovery, he retrained in vehicle combat and tested out with two kills. At the time, some believed he could win a Jorgensson bloodname if his one-man controls could be devised for his captured Athena combat vehicle.

By the time of Field Manual: Updates the Sigma Galaxy Commander is Aleksandr Jorgensson, although it doesn't describe how he accomplished it and doesn't specifically tie the two together, it sure looks like they found a way for one-man controls to work.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 23 November 2015, 11:45:58
In game terms I would represent a one man crew by applying a permanent driver and commander critical hit to the vehicle at the beginning of the battle.  Obviously, the warrior would choose unaugmented combat against mechwarriors and pilots as much as possible. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 23 November 2015, 21:59:29
I was thinking along the same lines for a warrior. My Dark Age knowledge is limited for the Clans so far. My original thoughts were for the warrior in question to command a Carnivore or Sekhmet though. The changes brought on by the Republic has my brain fragged trying to figure all this out.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 24 November 2015, 08:10:15
I imagine the vehicle duel to be conducted in vehicles that are one man operated. 

I've always loved the Shamash.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 27 November 2015, 01:12:38
What gaps do the Falcons have in their touman in 3145-3150, in terms of materiel?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Ascension on 01 December 2015, 18:58:56
I'm toying with a fanfic... could anyone point me toward the most boring place a Jade Falcon Provisional Garrison Cluster could be posted in the spring or early summer of 3050, after REVIVAL had begun but before the ilKhan allowed PGCs to be used to garrison IS worlds? Were any CJF PGCs present in the Deep Periphery at that point (and thus potentially posted to an uninhabited rock just serving as a waystation), or would they have all been back in the Homeworlds somewhere?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 02 December 2015, 23:58:42
I'm toying with a fanfic... could anyone point me toward the most boring place a Jade Falcon Provisional Garrison Cluster could be posted in the spring or early summer of 3050, after REVIVAL had begun but before the ilKhan allowed PGCs to be used to garrison IS worlds? Were any CJF PGCs present in the Deep Periphery at that point (and thus potentially posted to an uninhabited rock just serving as a waystation), or would they have all been back in the Homeworlds somewhere?

Take a look at Lambda Galaxy. They provided security for CJF baggage trains through the Periphery, and it's possible they were operating in that capacity during Revival. The Clans were occupying deep Periphery planets and kingdoms as they moved towards the IS. The Jade Falcon Sourcebook and Field Manual: Crusader Clans might help a little. The Explorer Corps book might also outline worlds in that region with an emphasis on the 3050s.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 11 December 2015, 13:30:18
Do we know where the Falcons manufacture the Jade Hawk?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 11 December 2015, 15:06:26
Do we know where the Falcons manufacture the Jade Hawk?

Thought I read somewhere that they don't anymore since the sea foxes got a hold of the plans.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 11 December 2015, 15:32:02
Thought I read somewhere that they don't anymore since the sea foxes got a hold of the plans.
There's two versions, the IS/mixed-tech ones (JHK-03, -04) that are made by DOA on Galatea. The full Clan versions, the Jade Hawk, 2, & 3, are the ones made by the Falcons and I don't know of any specific factory location.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 December 2015, 17:34:54
There's two versions, the IS/mixed-tech ones (JHK-03, -04) that are made by DOA on Galatea. The full Clan versions, the Jade Hawk, 2, & 3, are the ones made by the Falcons and I don't know of any specific factory location.

Given that the Jade Hawk was available to the Falcons before the desant, I'd assume it's manufactured on Sudeten or Erewhon.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 11 December 2015, 17:55:00
Given that the Jade Hawk was available to the Falcons before the desant ...

Desant was 3134, date I have for the Jade Hawk is 3136.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 December 2015, 20:12:11
Desant was 3134, date I have for the Jade Hawk is 3136.

Blargh. I meant the full-scale invasion of the LC, which is c3140
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 20 December 2015, 13:32:13
Still stuck on the Jade Hawk thing ...

Looking at the RAT from ER:3145, the Jade Hawk is tied with the Grand Summoner for the most 'common' heavy mech.

In FM:3145, the Jade Hawk is absent from Keshiks, barely present in front-line units and are low on the second-line table.

All of the other 'revitalization' mechs (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike) are very common in both books. Any thoughts on why the Jade Hawk was downgraded on the newer RATs so much?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 20 December 2015, 14:12:15
In MW:DA the Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, and the Shrike were all exclusive sculpts to the Falcons(until the Solaris 7 expansion gave us a merc Shrike).  The Jade Hawk was only ever used by unique mercs/gunslingers and never seen in Falcon colors.  There either is or was supposed to be(I forget which) a bit of fiction somewhere mentioning the Sea Foxes getting a hold of the plans for the Jade Hawk.  The falcon ditched the design shortly afterward.  Kind of like a hipster dropping their favorite band after hearing it the radio.

It's possible this never became canon. I knew a friend of a friend that worked for wizkids so from time to time I'd get to hear bits of background stories and unreleased stuff.  Some got published some didn't.  Been so long I can't keep which is which straight anymore.  This explanation was the intent at the beginning though.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 20 December 2015, 16:03:38
It's possible this never became canon. I knew a friend of a friend that worked for wizkids so from time to time I'd get to hear bits of background stories and unreleased stuff.  Some got published some didn't.  Been so long I can't keep which is which straight anymore.  This explanation was the intent at the beginning though.

Naw, you pretty much got it. Wizkids and TRO3145:Clans have both pretty much said what you wrote.

All of the other 'revitalization' mechs (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike) are very common in both books. Any thoughts on why the Jade Hawk was downgraded on the newer RATs so much?

It could simply boil down to OOU reasons. The Era Report came out before any of the 3145 TROs except for Mercs, and was possibly published before certain availability ratings, factional usage, or even 'Mechs were fully developed. Some supposedly common designs are missing from those RATs, while others find themselves used only by factions that would import/salvage them.

To be completely frank, I'd ignore the Era Report RATs as a canon source for what is common/what isn't if I were you.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 21 December 2015, 07:13:19
Thing is the Jade hawk's a bit of a turkey, sure it looks amazing but weapons wise...its useless outside all but the shortest ranges.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 23 December 2015, 15:12:03
So, question. What would you guys consider the most COMMON Jade Falcon Battle Armor in the 3145 era?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 23 December 2015, 15:21:19
I would say standard Elementals still, perhaps the type with flame-resistant armour being the most common version.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 23 December 2015, 16:05:23
Not sure if the Fire one has managed to gain supremacy yet, but yeah definitely Elemental.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 23 December 2015, 16:38:08
I dunno. The Clan Objectives book doesn't list the standard Elemental in production for the Jade Falcons, only the Elemental (Fire). Its certainly possible by 3145 the (Fire) version of it has taken over.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 December 2015, 20:48:34
Thing is the Jade hawk's a bit of a turkey, sure it looks amazing but weapons wise...its useless outside all but the shortest ranges.

The same could be said of the Hunchback a century or two earlier. Difference is, the Hawk is fast enough to close the range to use its fun treats... and, much like the Hunchback could advance under cover from long-range units like Trebuchets, the Jade Hawk can advance under cover from the long-range muscle of Gyrfalcons and Shrikes.

Also bear in mind that combat in this era is much heavier on combined-arms than before. That means infantry. That means urban environments, because that's where infantry work best... And a Clan-model Jade Hawk loose in a city is a bull in a china shop. Here the old Hunchback comparison falls apart a bit- a Hunchback loose in town becomes a nasty customer, stomping around a corner and delivering massive shells into a target... if it can get into position. A Hawk? It's bouncing all over purgatory, lasers and missiles and psychotic thrashing attacks... there's nowhere safe. It WILL catch its prey, and it WILL make it miserable- and if it gets into rough spot it simply hops away to safety and prepares its next attack.

Even in an open field fight, it's got uses, much like the Hunchie. Nothing motivates people to stay away from your Archers and Trebuchets like a Hunchback on guard duty- good news, I'm inside the LRM minimum range. Bad news, AC-20s hurt. Same here- even if I find a way to get in among the Gyrfalcons and such (and that's no easy task with the Gyrfalcon's mobility!), now the Jade Hawk on guard duty gets to go all kung-fu on its enemy.

This is an EXTREMELY dangerous design- it just needs to be used properly. This isn't a do-everything design the way some designs are, it isn't able to engage at any range with tools for every job the way a Mad Cat can. But in its roles, there's genuinely few designs that can compare to it- or survive long against one.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 29 December 2015, 21:50:34
I have a question for Jade Falcon fans: does anyone know how the names of the various Clusters relate to their composition? What differentiates a Talon Cluster from a Jaegers Cluster from a Strikers Cluster from a Hussars Cluster, and so on?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 29 December 2015, 23:18:41
Tradition, mainly - same as the IS, and the same as contemporary militaries.

The Falcon touman does use some labels at star/trinary level:

Com    Command Star (Cluster & Galaxy command units).
Talon   Assault Star (Heavy to Assault weight Battlemechs).
Beak   Battle Star (Medium to Heavy weight Battlemechs).
Eye   Striker Star (Light to Medium weight Battlemechs).
Eyrie   Mixed Weight Star (Sometimes classified as Beak).
Strider   Elemental Star.
Wing   Aerospace Star.
Nova   Nova (5 'Mech & 5 Elemental Points).
Mix   Non-standard Star. (Combines different Point types)

Additionally, some Stars and Trinaries were further classified by their mission type

Type   Information
Shield   Defensive Unit.
Probe   Reconnaissance Unit.
Sweep   Patrol Unit.
Hold   Pinning Unit.
Dark Wing   Solahma Unit
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 29 December 2015, 23:23:09
Do you think it's too much of a stretch to assume, based on that stuff you listed, that Talon Clusters are heavy/assault-weight Clusters, akin to the Mechanized Assault Clusters of the Hell's Horses?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 29 December 2015, 23:24:08
Check examples in the phonebook ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 30 December 2015, 04:15:10
Do you think it's too much of a stretch to assume, based on that stuff you listed, that Talon Clusters are heavy/assault-weight Clusters, akin to the Mechanized Assault Clusters of the Hell's Horses?

Seems reasonable. Did a quick look at the sourcebook for average 'Mech weights:

3rd Talon - 73 tons
9th Talon - 70 tons
1st Strikers - 45 tons
2nd Jaegers - 39 tons
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 30 December 2015, 04:46:38
Even if it's not canon, has anyone ever come up with a fanon explanation for the various Cluster types? The Falcons seem like they have enough dedicated fans that somebody would have attempted this by now.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 30 December 2015, 06:04:15
I'm not sure the Falcon units are that regimented. Looking at the Jade Falcon Sourcebook for instance, the 3rd and 9th Talons are rather heavily weighted, but on the next page, the 12th Falcon Regulars shares the same composition as the 3rd Talon.

The 305th Asssault Cluster has 7 out of 9 Stars being Light/Medium Stars, while the 4th Talon has the same ratio, with 7 out of 9 Stars being the Light/Medium Eye Stars, with the remainder being medium/heavy Stars.

So the Cluster names don't seem to have any real connection to their unit type.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 30 December 2015, 07:02:31
The Falcon scoffs at your puny concept of standards for unit naming!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 10 January 2016, 19:43:05
This is an EXTREMELY dangerous design- it just needs to be used properly. This isn't a do-everything design the way some designs are, it isn't able to engage at any range with tools for every job the way a Mad Cat can. But in its roles, there's genuinely few designs that can compare to it- or survive long against one.
O0
Like a lot of Falcon designs, playing smash mouth-style won't get you far with this one at range.  This one requires some maneuvering finesse.  Like a Hellbringer, the Jade Hawk is very deadly when used properly.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 13 January 2016, 20:27:54
MALVINA GETS RESULTS

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/mal_res.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 13 January 2016, 21:06:55
MALVINA GETS RESULTS

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/mal_res.jpg)

"I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 16 January 2016, 11:10:28
Jesus! I didn't realise that Malvina and friends managed to grab THAT much space.  The thing is what did this huge land grab cost the Falcons? They must have thrashed the guts out of their Tourman grabbing all this and really it was only possible due to the fact that the Lyran's basically got inadvertently tag teamed by the Wolves and Falcon/Horses at roughly the same time and had no real way to respond to the threats from so many axis of advance. 

Also i'd probably guess that the Falcons having the largest Warship fleet in the Inner Sphere save the Ravens mothballed ships also counted for a lot.  Warship guns speak very loudly indeed, especially when 'ol Mad Mal is MORE than willing to use them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 24 January 2016, 19:46:39
I am looking to build a fully trinary of Falcons Delta Galaxy 4th Falcon Dragoons. Looking at this for Alpha Strike games. trying very hard to keep it pure to designs made by the falcons. I currently have 2 Turkina, 2 Shrike, 2 Jade Hawk, 2 Flamberge, 2 Eryrie, quite a few invasion mechs, a pair of Carnivores, around 60 elementals several bases of dark age infantry( not sure exactly which ones). Buying more models is not a problem. What would you field to be competitive but still fluffy?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 24 January 2016, 20:00:27
First, I'd relax and allow "Clan general" designs to the mix. You lose on some great options that way, and the Falcons do trade with lesser clans ( ;) ).

Second, a good bit of the good newer designs aren't Omnis. It makes sense to put the Omnis into novas with as much BA as they can carry, and keep the non-Omnis in support stars. BA-wise the Falcons have all the good stuff - at that time you're accessing the Elemental (Fire), Salamander (standard & so-called anti-infantry), Corona, Gnome, the lovely Ironhold, Afreet, and the "Rache" Clan BA with jump boosters! If you can't put together some fun out of that, I'll be worried :)

For "infantry", you'll only really see Clan foot troops in solahma units. But they can be fun too, so having a Binary of "disposable" solahma with weird and wonderful*(ly crappy) equipment rocks too. Ever wanted to use that UrbanMech IIC mini? Here's your chance! Some double-Arrow IV loving - Hueys! And so on.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 24 January 2016, 20:15:15
Yeah. Crossing from the other side of the Inner Sphere. Finally decided to try the Clan way of life. Most of the mechs listed are either new purchase on somewhere between IWM and me.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 24 January 2016, 20:18:33
FWIW, I'm working on a full Trinary of 'Mechs, have already completed a Trinary of BA, and have a Binary of second-line designs to back'em up, all from Delta Galaxy. Plus a solahma binary for Omega, for fun.

Just remember - we Falcon Harder!  [tickedoff]  O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 24 January 2016, 20:31:37
I was playing with a star then a binary of the Flamberge, Jade Hawk  and gyrfalcon. Drove my opponents nuts with the jumping everywhere and still hitting hard enough to give them a bad day.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 January 2016, 00:49:18
Don't forget a couple of Eyries in there- nothing more fun than pummeling someone with a couple of Gyrfalcons and Shrikes from range, then sending in the Jade Hawks and Eyries to finish the job!

Also, as Worktroll said, second-line stuff isn't a bad idea. Among Falcon-built options are favorites like the Locust IIC, Battlemaster C, Hellhound, Kraken, Thunderbolt IIC, Jupiter, Spirit... no shortage of very good Falcon second-liners.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 25 January 2016, 16:53:18
You can't go wrong with more Flamberges.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 January 2016, 11:22:24
In a mark of deep personal shame, I've never owned a Night Gyr mini, but finally got one yesterday.

How madly should I be cackling?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 26 January 2016, 13:02:45
The Night Gyr is a MONSTER of a mech, the Prime is 150% pure curbstomp.  But IIRC the model for it was a bit rubbish.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 January 2016, 13:26:30
Oh, I definitely plan to repose the mini. Three are ones on CSO that I think I can get close to structurally, if not paint-wise.

Has anyone tried teaming it up with a Flamberge yet? Seems like they might work well together. Especially in Alpha Strike, where a Flamberge B can slow down a target with plasma, making it easy prey for a Night Gyr's hard knockdown.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 08 February 2016, 01:45:23
Alright, I've found at least some partial answers to my question about Cluster types earlier. Three of the Cluster types are described briefly in the various Galaxy write-ups in FM: 3145.

Talon Clusters are "heavy."
Jaegers are "fast-moving."
Hussars are "lightweight."

That still leaves Dragoons, Velites and Striker Clusters. Anyone have any theories as to what those might be?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 08 February 2016, 02:48:37
"I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more!"

"I'm mad as hell, and I am going to take it. All of it."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rtifs on 08 February 2016, 10:54:18
Alright, I've found at least some partial answers to my question about Cluster types earlier. Three of the Cluster types are described briefly in the various Galaxy write-ups in FM: 3145.

Talon Clusters are "heavy."
Jaegers are "fast-moving."
Hussars are "lightweight."

That still leaves Dragoons, Velites and Striker Clusters. Anyone have any theories as to what those might be?

My company has some proprietary software for statistical analysis.  I used it to setup an excel sheet that could generate a random cluster via RATs from whatever era.  I used the Jade Falcon Sourcebook lists as a baseline to determine the frequency of weight class.  For example, the RATs will tell you the frequency of each mech in each weight class, but there is no guidance on how many of each weight class to use.  That’s where the statistics came in. 

For those interested I assigned a number to each weight class (1 = light, 2 = medium etc.).  This allowed me to determine mean and standard deviation for the cluster in quetion.  I then setup a normal distribution.  This determines which weight class to use for each mech.  It’s a pretty simple matter after that for excel to “roll” 2d6 to determine the mech in each weight class.  Note, that I used a single cluster of each type as an example and in some cases you could find another cluster of said type that deviates from the example I used.  For instance, I think some of the battle clusters look more like talons, and some more like strikers.  I looked them over and used what appeared to me to be the most representative example.

I was astonished at how light the Falcons were.  It also sheds light on some of the unit types.  The numbers below were generated with the Jade Falcon 3073 RAT.  Also, the numbers below may deviate depending on the random example that comes up, but are remarkably consistent.  It’s been a while since I used it, but if I remember correctly, average mech mass (the average mass of all the mechs randomly rolled up), only deviates by about 5 tons either way.

Finally, the numbers above aren't perfect since my "database" of non-omnimech stats, was not complete.  So if a Kintaro was rolled up, it would have a mass and BV of 0.  These gaps could move the averages a few tons either way, but looking things over does not have a significant impact.  Units that are inherently frontline (i.e. all omnimechs) like the Keshik, have no such gaps.

Keshik – command unit, average mech mass is around 61 tons, average fighter mass is around 50 tons

Talon Clusters are indeed heavy/assault, average mech mass around 69 tons, average fighter mass is around 29.5 tons

Jaegers – fairly light, similar to strikers, average mech mass around 40 tons, average fighter mass is around 41.6 tons

Assault Cluster - fairly light, similar to strikers, average mech mass around 40 tons, average fighter mass is around 27.5 tons

Battle Cluster – Mid-weight, average mech mass around 48 tons, average fighter mass is around 33 tons

Regulars - Mid-weight, average mech mass around 52 tons, average fighter mass is around 19.5 tons

Strikers – fast, lightweight, think horse archers, average mech mass around 45 tons, average fighter mass is around 31 tons
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 09 February 2016, 20:16:27
MALVINA GETS RESULTS

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1768639/mal_res.jpg)

This is a good picture.

I feel like this is a good time to chime in with the reminder that four or five more of those blue ones turn green in the next year or two.  Particularly the one labeled "Arc-Royal". O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 09 February 2016, 20:50:28
I found something interesting in FM: Crusader Clans: going by the writeup of JF Sigma Galaxy, it looks like Dragoon Clusters are Clusters built around a core of veteran warriors, and then bulked out to to Cluster size with green warriors and abtakha. So Dragoon Clusters are organized around the personnel end of things, rather than the equipment end of things, apparently.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 09 February 2016, 21:39:55
I found something interesting in FM: Crusader Clans: going by the writeup of JF Sigma Galaxy, it looks like Dragoon Clusters are Clusters built around a core of veteran warriors, and then bulked out to to Cluster size with green warriors and abtakha. So Dragoon Clusters are organized around the personnel end of things, rather than the equipment end of things, apparently.

Alexander Hazen, before his untimely demise, had been doing this with Zeta Galaxy (I remember seeing somewhere.  Not sure if it's accurate or something I accidentally just invented) during the Desant.  I like the idea.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 10 February 2016, 00:03:15
Besides, it hardly matters what actual mass a Falcon force is; all their 'Mechs are heavies at heart.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 10 February 2016, 00:33:45
Hmm...according to the Fed Com Civil War sourcebook, Swoop Clusters are Clusters composed almost entirely of freebirths.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 10 February 2016, 02:48:45
Besides, it hardly matters what actual mass a Falcon force is; all their 'Mechs are heavies at heart.

And when the Falcon forces are shot out of the sky and ground into the dirt, Falcon Mechwarriors will be heavy of heart.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Vition2 on 10 February 2016, 03:35:11
That still leaves Dragoons, Velites and Striker Clusters. Anyone have any theories as to what those might be?

My thoughts are they take similar roles as their historical namesakes (if they have any).

So Dragoons are medium/heavy.  Velites are fast light/mediums - a skirmish/harasser formation.  And Striker clusters are light/mediums with an emphasis on speed and firepower (these and Assault clusters are virtually interchangeable in the Falcons as far as I can tell, assaults might be every so slightly heavier).

I've noticed that in clan clusters, the assault designation takes two forms: 1) they take the assaulting role, or those of shock troops, they are fast and heavy hitters meant to find the weaknesses in an enemy formation for heavier units to take advantage of and 2) those units that are made up of assault class 'mechs.  I personally have changed my own fanon to use assault formations as the first definition and reclassify the second definition as siege clusters.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 13 February 2016, 19:58:03
I find this thread title acceptable.

*Gets kicked out for Foxing too much.*

I Falcon so hard I vomit when I read anything post-jihad!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 February 2016, 20:11:19
Have you seen how hard the Falcons are Falconing during the dark age? It's practically our happy fun time!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 13 February 2016, 20:26:49
Have you seen how hard the Falcons are Falconing during the dark age? It's practically our happy fun time!

HUARGH! Lol but in all seriousness, its one of the major reasons I can't get into Dark Age.

In CBT I played Delta and Gamma Galaxies with units from both at times during large scale campaigns (Ho-boy, are large scale campaigns something else when you are a Clan player! Logistics man ._. And artillery!?) but I mostly kept to the, of course, Falcon Guard's in small games or as the Dark Jade Wings cluster.

I ended up playing Delta a lot up until the Jihad kind of broke out club up, Dark Age killed it like so many other clubs! But I also liked having free form units, not needing to stick to the exact touman. Gah, I still get nostalgic about MW2 and the unnamed drill instructor calling me an idiot. Hah, good times.


Oh! I also played Jade Falcon in the W!Online league from MW4, if any of you guys are around here I was Star Captain Valaska Roshak, Colonel just before the league folded. Love to get in touch if the group is surviving.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 14 February 2016, 00:20:09
Have you seen how hard the Falcons are Falconing during the dark age? It's practically our happy fun time!

And it's time to put the naughty kids in the corner  :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 14 February 2016, 00:54:24
HUARGH! Lol but in all seriousness, its one of the major reasons I can't get into Dark Age.

I'm not sure I understand the point.  Do you not like when the Falcons are being Falcons? ???  Dark Age is great for Falcon players.  We're the batshit crazy ones again. :D  It's like the Invasion all over again, except now we don't have to compete with those stupid Jags over who's the craziest.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 15 February 2016, 13:06:15
I'm not sure I understand the point.  Do you not like when the Falcons are being Falcons? ???  Dark Age is great for Falcon players.  We're the batshit crazy ones again. :D  It's like the Invasion all over again, except now we don't have to compete with those stupid Jags over who's the craziest.

Hah... I don't get how an old Falcon player can dig whats going on in the Dark Age. The Jade Falcons would -never- use WMD's in the way they did, they had to shoe horn that crap in like how they shoe horned WoB and such in, its utterly ridiculous, regardless what some say about the Falcons they are an extremely progressive traditionalist Clan which was revolted at the Smoke Jag's treatment of civilians, and at the nuke's that went off over the Snow Raven capitals.

They've been one of the staunchest anti-WMD and civilian casualty clans from the get-go, only briefly looking the other way when it came the Smoke Jaguars as the falcons knew they could use Osis and Showers to launch operation Revival. Even Crichell found a lot of distaste in the methods of Chistu and allowed Clan Wolf to exist, albeit as a new clan... Which he was betrayed in.

So I really don't know where you are getting Jade Falcons were ever the crazy ones, one of the most liberal Crusader clans towards civilians, officiated FreeBorn ranks all the way up to Khan (despite there not being a FreeBorn Khan, the regalia exists), the first blood named FreeBorn Khan, the most effective an actually real Clan Watch of all the clans... Not only that but they could have pulled a Steel Viper/Hells Horses/Nova Cat/Blood Spirit/Burrock/etc move during the Coventry campaign and stuck that fight out while they lost worlds to a backstriking Clan Wolf. Marthe actually went hte diplomatic route and in true Falcon Form, got shit done.


The Dark Age "material"... Yeah, yeah I read it. People cheering and that are fans of the Falcons post Jihad, I have a hard time believing they were fans of the actual Clan Jade Falcon. At this point Catalyst could kill them off and I wouldn't care, likely not even hear about it. They aren't in any way the faction they actually were or should logically be, even the Fed Suns were changed for change sake, the majority of Dark Age just, its pedantic.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 15 February 2016, 13:17:54
The 2 dimensional D&D alignment axes have clear problems being applied into Battletech (and that BattleTech isn't D&D isn't even the biggest problem) but I'm about to use them because they are a frame of reference I feel most of us will have common knowledge of, even if different perceptions....

The Invasion Era Falcons were Lawful Neutral.  Staunchly traditional and sticklers for adherence to points of honor.  Being a Jade Falcon was kind of like getting to be a Paladin without having to be Good.  To use yet another cross-game analogy, I think an excellent analogue for the Jade Falcon mindset at invasion are the Iron Kingdom's Knights Exemplar.

As of the Dark Age, well that alignment has clearly shifted.  You might say as far as Chaotic Evil, but I'd stick it to Lawful Evil still.  However you define D&D's alignments, in the Dark Age it's the same Jade Falcons as before, but in their eyes "the kiddie gloves have come off".

I love analogies.  Here's yet another one: the Jade Falcons are solid Heels.  I don't follow "pro" wrestling like I did as a kid, so I can't speak to which wrestler the Falcons were like then and now, but to appreciate the Falcons you really do have to be able to appreciate rooting for a Heel.  Maybe it was less obvious in the earlier eras than it is now.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 15 February 2016, 13:27:47
The 2 dimensional D&D alignment axes have clear problems being applied into Battletech (and that BattleTech isn't D&D isn't even the biggest problem) but I'm about to use them because they are a frame of reference I feel most of us will have common knowledge of, even if different perceptions....

The Invasion Era Falcons were Lawful Neutral.  Staunchly traditional and sticklers for adherence to points of honor.  Being a Jade Falcon was kind of like getting to be a Paladin without having to be Good.  To use yet another cross-game analogy, I think an excellent analogue for the Jade Falcon mindset at invasion are the Iron Kingdom's Knights Exemplar.

As of the Dark Age, well that alignment has clearly shifted.  You might say as far as Chaotic Evil, but I'd stick it to Lawful Evil still.  However you define D&D's alignments, in the Dark Age it's the same Jade Falcons as before, but in their eyes "the kiddie gloves have come off".

I love analogies.  Here's yet another one: the Jade Falcons are solid Heels.  I don't follow "pro" wrestling like I did as a kid, so I can't speak to which wrestler the Falcons were like then and now, but to appreciate the Falcons you really do have to be able to appreciate rooting for a Heel.  Maybe it was less obvious in the earlier eras than it is now.

Lol I am with you to the D&D and the lawful etc alignments, but pro wrestling! You do go on :P

But yeah, I can get behind the "A paladin without having to be good." The schism was just, it was more of a framing and story device, it could have hit any faction but they randomly drew Jade Falcon, the history just was disconnected because even if they went full out that would mean a large conventional assault with MAYBE orbital strikes on military targets. To go from the faith neutral paladin, to the fricken devil AKA WoB, well, just like the WoB it was another case of "add water to progress story."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 15 February 2016, 13:36:11
Wow. Tell us how you really feel.

Hah... I don't get how an old Falcon player can dig whats going on in the Dark Age. The Jade Falcons would -never- use WMD's in the way they did, they had to shoe horn that crap in like how they shoe horned WoB and such in, its utterly ridiculous, regardless what some say about the Falcons they are an extremely progressive traditionalist Clan which was revolted at the Smoke Jag's treatment of civilians, and at the nuke's that went off over the Snow Raven capitals.

In the homeworlds, there may have been some truth to this, but times have changed. I wouldn't say the Falcons were 'revolted' by the Jags treatment of their civilians, if they had been, they would have launched a trial against the Jaguars. That never happened. As for the nukes against the Raven capitals... it was just one when the Wolverines did the deed, everyone was 'revolted' not just the Falcons.

They've been one of the staunchest anti-WMD and civilian casualty clans from the get-go, only briefly looking the other way when it came the Smoke Jaguars as the falcons knew they could use Osis and Showers to launch operation Revival. Even Crichell found a lot of distaste in the methods of Chistu and allowed Clan Wolf to exist, albeit as a new clan... Which he was betrayed in.

I've seen no evidence that the Falcon's were the 'staunchest anti-WMD' Clans. They followed Kerensky's rules, period. Crichell's only problem with Chistu was that Chistu wanted to take Crichell's place. He applauded his methods.

So I really don't know where you are getting Jade Falcons were ever the crazy ones, one of the most liberal Crusader clans towards civilians, officiated FreeBorn ranks all the way up to Khan (despite there not being a FreeBorn Khan, the regalia exists), the first blood named FreeBorn Khan, the most effective an actually real Clan Watch of all the clans... Not only that but they could have pulled a Steel Viper/Hells Horses/Nova Cat/Blood Spirit/Burrock/etc move during the Coventry campaign and stuck that fight out while they lost worlds to a backstriking Clan Wolf. Marthe actually went hte diplomatic route and in true Falcon Form, got shit done.

This is very confused. True, the Falcon's were never really the 'crazy ones.' The Falcons largely ignored their civilians, letting their merchants prosper, so I suppose that could be 'liberal.' Freeborns were reluctantly allowed into the touman in small numbers. Diana Pryde is the only known freeborn Falcon to win a bloodname, and she never moved beyond Star Colonel. Agreed, they do have the most effective Watch. Marthe pulled back because she wanted to preserve the touman, but had virtually any of her subordinates been in charge, including Samantha Clees, Coventry would have been a disaster.

The Dark Age "material"... Yeah, yeah I read it. People cheering and that are fans of the Falcons post Jihad, I have a hard time believing they were fans of the actual Clan Jade Falcon. At this point Catalyst could kill them off and I wouldn't care, likely not even hear about it. They aren't in any way the faction they actually were or should logically be, even the Fed Suns were changed for change sake, the majority of Dark Age just, its pedantic.

You know, people worked hard on that "material" you so casually put down. Many fans seem to be on board with the Falcon's current path. The more progressive fans are waiting for Malvina's fall, so that the Clan can resume it's more traditional role. Things change. We don't always like said change. If you don't approve of the new, 'pedantic (really? overly meticulous?)' direction of the setting, don't buy the newer products and play in your own, homegrown AU.

But yeah, I can get behind the "A paladin without having to be good." The schism was just, it was more of a framing and story device, it could have hit any faction but they randomly drew Jade Falcon, the history just was disconnected because even if they went full out that would mean a large conventional assault with MAYBE orbital strikes on military targets. To go from the faith neutral paladin, to the fricken devil AKA WoB, well, just like the WoB it was another case of "add water to progress story."

Here's the problem. The most logical outcome of the Clan system IS a monster such as Malvina. The Falcon's just got there first. History plays a role too. The Crusader beliefs can reasonably lead to the Mongol beliefs espoused by Malvina. But the thing to remember is that Marthe Pryde as Khan was an anomaly, not the rule.

But ultimately, yes, somebody has to be the 'bad guy.'
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Zweihart on 15 February 2016, 13:51:07
Reading the last couple posts has left me a bit confused at the opposed opinions on what the proper Falcon behavior is supposed. Jade Falcons have been becoming an increasingly important part of the stuff I've been writing on the side, and I'd like to get their portrayal as "right" as possible, but it's a bit difficult if people disagree on what direction the right portrayal is supposed to take.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 15 February 2016, 14:08:26
Wow. Tell us how you really feel.

In the homeworlds, there may have been some truth to this, but times have changed. I wouldn't say the Falcons were 'revolted' by the Jags treatment of their civilians, if they had been, they would have launched a trial against the Jaguars. That never happened. As for the nukes against the Raven capitals... it was just one when the Wolverines did the deed, everyone was 'revolted' not just the Falcons.

I've seen no evidence that the Falcon's were the 'staunchest anti-WMD' Clans. They followed Kerensky's rules, period. Crichell's only problem with Chistu was that Chistu wanted to take Crichell's place. He applauded his methods.

This is very confused. True, the Falcon's were never really the 'crazy ones.' The Falcons largely ignored their civilians, letting their merchants prosper, so I suppose that could be 'liberal.' Freeborns were reluctantly allowed into the touman in small numbers. Diana Pryde is the only known freeborn Falcon to win a bloodname, and she never moved beyond Star Colonel. Agreed, they do have the most effective Watch. Marthe pulled back because she wanted to preserve the touman, but had virtually any of her subordinates been in charge, including Samantha Clees, Coventry would have been a disaster.

You know, people worked hard on that "material" you so casually put down. Many fans seem to be on board with the Falcon's current path. The more progressive fans are waiting for Malvina's fall, so that the Clan can resume it's more traditional role. Things change. We don't always like said change. If you don't approve of the new, 'pedantic (really? overly meticulous?)' direction of the setting, don't buy the newer products and play in your own, homegrown AU.

Here's the problem. The most logical outcome of the Clan system IS a monster such as Malvina. The Falcon's just got there first. History plays a role too. The Crusader beliefs can reasonably lead to the Mongol beliefs espoused by Malvina. But the thing to remember is that Marthe Pryde as Khan was an anomaly, not the rule.

But ultimately, yes, somebody has to be the 'bad guy.'

The Falcons were actually one of the Clans who voted on either Smoke Jaguar's annihilation or absorption following the Londerholm Revolt, but unfortunately for all of the Clan's futures they ended up turning the issue around and using it offensively against all the other clans which lead to ALL parties to back down from that including Coyote and Diamond Shark. It wasn't just Jade Falcon though, it was nearly the majority of all Clans in the Grand Council, but again, even Diamond Shark realized setting a precedence for a clan to interrupt another clans treatment of their civilians and every day operation could be disastrous for their way of life.

They weren't the staunchest, but they were up there in the list of traditionalists in which they were eschewed. WMD's have a tendency to obliterate infrastructure and cause horrendous civilian lives, which put them on the top of the list seeing how careful and marked their combat was in and around civilians centers. Chrichell applauded his effort and the fact he didn't see it coming from Chistu, he figured him rather a lout and ineffective at politics... To see him actually trying these machinations, well, he could have covered it up and continued the dance and likely won, it could have ended their most hated rival too. But he didn't, he actually gave Wolf a chance.

I'm not sure that Samantha Clees, personally, would have continued that campaign either. She was an amazingly intelligent woman who was markedly exceptional at noticing when a situation was ugly and when it was a benefit to carry on. There were never any examples (few examples of her there may be) being rash or hot headed, and all of the op's she lead tended to be resoundingly successful.

I am not really sold on how hard people worked on the material... You know the gap was simply them wiping a clean slate in order to not involve all previous lore? They went the easiest route which really was something that caused... Well, pun intended, the dark age of battletech lol. To wit, pedantic as trying, and just focused on all these new sudden micro stories etc which again were all completely brand new as they white washed everything people had come to love previously and the new entities of this universe are basically sock pockets of their former selves. So yes, people worked hard, but sometimes you can work very hard on a failure.


I'm not sold, on this though. Jade Falcon, as well as several other Clan's, actually have had a history of very level headed and rational Khans. The system COULD breed a mongol like situation, but I mean... Hasn't every other one? The situation of Malvina is just a joke, in such a progressive traditionalist clan, someone would have challenged her... But there were NO takers. The entire clan just seemed okay with what was going on. I figure the Clan Council meeting might have been a little something like;

"Oh hey Malvina, yeah I agree we have over the years showed this mindset and behavior which should be ingrained on us completely. Oh you want to nuke everything and have the entirety of our civilization just completely 180, causing one of the greatest losses of life outside of all FOUR succession wars combined, or the Jihad? I mean, it goes completely against all of our lore, backstory, everything that has been established to this point but... I guess if it will give WizKids a framing and plot device."

It was part of the bad writing Dark Age has been legendary for, especially in its start up period and WizKids just... Holy crap period. I heard Catalyst is doing some interesting things, but I mean, as an old time fan and reader of BattleTech, I can't buy Dark Age as being in the same universe. Especially Falcons, they went from Hazen, Chrichell, Pryde, to Jerome Blake. With all the Clans that previously through Clan Invasion-Jihad/Civil war having Khans that were apparently the anomaly according to you... To suddenly getting the rare and one off norm?

Reading the last couple posts has left me a bit confused at the opposed opinions on what the proper Falcon behavior is supposed. Jade Falcons have been becoming an increasingly important part of the stuff I've been writing on the side, and I'd like to get their portrayal as "right" as possible, but it's a bit difficult if people disagree on what direction the right portrayal is supposed to take.

As much as I would like the old Falcon lore to be accurate to, you know, today... Jaim Magnus' etc idea of what the falcons have become is accurate. They are extremely vicious, murderous, worse than Smoke Jaguar ever could have been in their history. They are lower than Widowmaker now, and the reasons were simply they needed a bad guy, and since they virtually erased all previous lore and what it meant/mattered they could use anyone. Falcons drew the straw because Wolf has usually been the favored child, Ghost Bears are the Dominion, and Snow Raven localized too.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Zweihart on 15 February 2016, 14:15:57
That behavior is only characteristic of Dark Age Falcons though, if I'm following correctly, no? The stuff I'm writing spans roughly between 3040 to 3070 currently, with plans to expend to the 3080s, but my knowledge of the Jihad and subsequent eras is lacking, so I'll be focusing most of my efforts on the first segment and Pre-Jihad Falcons will be featured for the most part. That would be the "Old Lore" you mention, right?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 15 February 2016, 14:42:18
That behavior is only characteristic of Dark Age Falcons though, if I'm following correctly, no? The stuff I'm writing spans roughly between 3040 to 3070 currently, with plans to expend to the 3080s, but my knowledge of the Jihad and subsequent eras is lacking, so I'll be focusing most of my efforts on the first segment and Pre-Jihad Falcons will be featured for the most part. That would be the "Old Lore" you mention, right?

Essentially yes, during your time period from 3040-3058 a fairly pragmatic and forward thinking Crichell was in charge. His biggest mistakes were in his alliance with Smoke Jaguar, which was done out of a mutual respect (but not friendship) with then ilKhan Showers. This was an alliance he made to;


The alliance had backfired minorly from time to time, and lead to his eventual death when he trusted a one Vlad Ward of Clan Wolf. After this, in 3058 era, Khan Marthe Pryde took control of Jade Falcon. She is pretty much almost as amazing as Khan Elizabeth Hazen. She progressed with the progressive ideals that Jade Falcon's Chrichell had dabbled with and really pulled the Clan forward into a new age of accepting Freeborns. They'd eventually go on to act with a diplomatic and very pragmatic approach with the InnerSphere, despite two incursions, they came to one of the most hilarious compromises outside of Clan Ghost Bear playing a football match to decide the fate of an entire planet.

Markedly the Clan before Marthe has been rather decent to their civilians, they let them alone at their own devices and there's even hints to inter caste judicial systems for the lower castes. The Falcon bankers have A LOT of power in the clan, the scientists... Were, pretty respected and powerful, long story on that one though. The labor caste basically just live their lives, get up, breakfast, go to work, go chill out, rinse repeat. Its still structured in the highly competitive atmosphere of a Clan, but basically it was an improvement on the standard of living for quite a few of the planets they hold in their occupation zone.

The Falcons generally have been one of the least kill civilian happy Clans, and treat their bondsmen with due respect. The Crazyness really starts Dark Age era, but the Falcons are absolutely famous for being political to the point they might not be considered traditionalists.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 15 February 2016, 15:39:10
I bet if you sold a work of fiction in 1913 Germany that detailed exactly all the actions of their country in just 30 years they would laugh at such implausibility.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 15 February 2016, 17:34:38
I bet if you sold a work of fiction in 1913 Germany that detailed exactly all the actions of their country in just 30 years they would laugh at such implausibility.

I'm not all together sure about that. The Nazi thing may have been a twist, but the country knew war was coming, the signs were there since the 1880's as the situation kept declining. They were... Pretty anti-semitic as a culture before Adolf Hitler showed up so you would have actually had a good deal of them actually looking at it and going; "Hmmm..." The United States saw WWII coming a long way off when they told Britain and France to "Don't do it!" during the treaty of Versailles. They literally stated it could drive Germany to lash out, or plunge the region into undue poverty and discourse if they charged the exorbitant reparations they had planned, which built animosity of the Germans and Austrians etc.

And as much as Germans and we who are heavily of German descent (family is 3rd Generation Canadian from German, bred into another German family from Odessa during the Russians ethnic cleansing of our people and my family quite a few years ago) sometimes play off or divert the focus... Hitler's idea's struck a cord with some fundamental failings that existed in German society. Again, antisemitism was fairly well spread and our people had been exceedingly warlike... Also committed a few atrocities in the past.

So as much as Germany has radically changed and healed since 1945, it wasn't exactly coming out of left field. It wasn't a sure thing, and many in Germany would have eschewed such a manifesto, but there were a lot who were of mind already... The Falcons on the other hand were staunchly against the killing of civilians and WMD's, to radically shift like that was something against their core tenants and foundations.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 15 February 2016, 19:37:50
Every time I see someone complain about the direction the fiction is taking making no sense, I'm reminded of this very old post. 

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=31591.0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 15 February 2016, 21:16:07
One thing you have to understand about Malvina is that she's the ultimate expression of Might Makes Right. And the Clans are all about Might Makes Right. Don't like the work assignments? Challenge your superior to a fight, and if you beat him up enough, you win and you're right and the assignments change. Don't like your Star Commander's leadership? Fight him, and if you win, you're in charge. Want a factory or piece of land or something? Challenge the owners to a fight, and if you win, its yours.

Malvina is the ultimate expression of the Clan ideal, "Might is Right." If Clanners don't like what she's doing, then they have the right to try to stop her. If they can, then she's wrong and they're right. But so far she wins and thus, she's Right. Her direction is the Clan's direction.

And lets face it, trying to argue that the 3145 Falcons are wrong because it doesn't match with the 3050 fluff of them is pretty hinky in the first place. They've gone through the Jihad, been ejected from the Homeworlds due to the War of Reaving and the Society conflict and the enforced peace of Stone. That's 20 generations of change that the Falcons have gone through.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 15 February 2016, 21:21:14
Every time I see someone complain about the direction the fiction is taking making no sense, I'm reminded of this very old post. 

I'm sure if there was a large market for a 400-page volume 'Malvina Hazen and the Rise of the Mongol Doctrine in Clan Jade Falcon' there are some historically-minded writers at Catalyst that would love to tackle it.

But we gotta get to the action. And one thing Malvina does is bring the action.

The situation of Malvina is just a joke, in such a progressive traditionalist clan, someone would have challenged her... But there were NO takers. The entire clan just seemed okay with what was going on.

I think you should read the Falcon Dark Age books again.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 15 February 2016, 21:33:21
I also see the Mongol doctrine as a rebound from generations of trying to impose Clan Warrior ethics on Spheroids who simply don't play by those rules. It's very much an "All right, no mor mister nice Clanner!" response - they tried being honorable. Now, you get one chance; after that, the Mongols are entirely happy to accept the peace of ashes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 15 February 2016, 21:38:55
Valaska, there are so many incorrect things about what you're saying, I don't even know where to start. Instead I'll simply say this: perhaps instead of relying on second- or third-hand accounts of the Jihad and Dark Age material, you could try actually reading it yourself so that you understand the series of events that led to the Mongols and Malvina's rise (check out stuff like the novels Flight of the Falcon and A Rending of Falcons, along with the various Jihad sourebooks and 3145 material). Who knows? You might even like it. As it stands, though, you're like a guy that blunders into a conversation about a TV show you've never watched, but have heard other people talk shit about, and declaring that it's dumb and unbelievable.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 15 February 2016, 21:49:26
I also see the Mongol doctrine as a rebound from generations of trying to impose Clan Warrior ethics on Spheroids who simply don't play by those rules. It's very much an "All right, no mor mister nice Clanner!" response - they tried being honorable. Now, you get one chance; after that, the Mongols are entirely happy to accept the peace of ashes.

I had this exact realization while reading the books and distinctly recall the smile that spread across my face. All those years of people—in universe and out—prodding and laughing at the dumb Falcons, their stupid honour code, their antiquated rules. Like a cat laughing at a chained-up dog.

... then Malvina comes in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bojp4Q1vvRg
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 February 2016, 22:35:32
Valaska, there are so many incorrect things about what you're saying, I don't even know where to start. Instead I'll simply say this: perhaps instead of relying on second- or third-hand accounts of the Jihad and Dark Age material, you could try actually reading it yourself so that you understand the series of events that led to the Mongols and Malvina's rise (check out stuff like the novels Flight of the Falcon and A Rending of Falcons, along with the various Jihad sourebooks and 3145 material). Who knows? You might even like it. As it stands, though, you're like a guy that blunders into a conversation about a TV show you've never watched, but have heard other people talk shit about, and declaring that it's dumb and unbelievable.

+1, Seconded, Liked etc
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 15 February 2016, 23:29:23
The Clan system regularly creates these monsters. The Wolves had Marcos Radick, who was butchering civilians throughout Revival under Ulric's watch, and afterwards under the command of the two Spheroid Wolf Khans. Yet politics within the Wolf Clan blocked him from gaining power, so he killed dozens instead of thousands or tens of thousands. But when someone like Brett Andrews or Malvina Hazen actually do gain power...

And lets remember that as brilliant as Marthe Pryde was about keeping her warriors directed at external threats instead of fighting among themselves, she still ordered mass killings of lower caste civilians during the Society uprising in the 3070s.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 16 February 2016, 00:05:09
Valaska, there are so many incorrect things about what you're saying, I don't even know where to start. Instead I'll simply say this: perhaps instead of relying on second- or third-hand accounts of the Jihad and Dark Age material, you could try actually reading it yourself so that you understand the series of events that led to the Mongols and Malvina's rise (check out stuff like the novels Flight of the Falcon and A Rending of Falcons, along with the various Jihad sourebooks and 3145 material). Who knows? You might even like it. As it stands, though, you're like a guy that blunders into a conversation about a TV show you've never watched, but have heard other people talk shit about, and declaring that it's dumb and unbelievable.

I've actually read a couple TRO's and a few of the first novels from Dark Age, and I fail to see where I am "so full of incorrect things." I mean, surely you could find some starting point or even a mid way point to pick apart what I'm saying? I've not touched the later stuff, true enough, but I'm not referring to the later stuff trying to addend or make sense out of the just unfathomable beginning that the Dark Ages took. So no, I've watched the show, I just understood how hard they shoe-horned a villain out of a non-villain because... Hey, clean slate, and we gotta sell click tech.

The Clan system regularly creates these monsters. The Wolves had Marcos Radick, who was butchering civilians throughout Revival under Ulric's watch, and afterwards under the command of the two Spheroid Wolf Khans. Yet politics within the Wolf Clan blocked him from gaining power, so he killed dozens instead of thousands or tens of thousands. But when someone like Brett Andrews or Malvina Hazen actually do gain power...

And lets remember that as brilliant as Marthe Pryde was about keeping her warriors directed at external threats instead of fighting among themselves, she still ordered mass killings of lower caste civilians during the Society uprising in the 3070s.
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The Clan system puts a few of these out, but not any more "regularly" than the InnerSphere, and exactly, clan politics tend to keep these people WAY down. Marthe Pride didn't mass kill lower caste civilians, they killed Society agents. There were no mechants, and no civilians caught in the killings, Kael Pershaw constructed and ran the MOST efficient watch and arguably best intelligence agency in BattleTech, they knew who their targets were and they carried it out with extreme, quiet efficiency. Nobody even had an idea what was happening, most the deaths seemed like accidents. The worst she did was order the deaths of a few sphere scientists who had extensive contact with the society, who almost always turned out to be a part of or connected to the society.

This wasn't a small tiny little infection of 2-3 scientists, it was nearly the entire scientist caste in Jade Falcon took advantage of the general freedom and hand off approach the Falcons took, other than directing what things to research, they never bothered themselves with the how, when etc. The Society flourished amazingly well in this atmosphere, almost more than any other Clan.

I'm sure if there was a large market for a 400-page volume 'Malvina Hazen and the Rise of the Mongol Doctrine in Clan Jade Falcon' there are some historically-minded writers at Catalyst that would love to tackle it.

But we gotta get to the action. And one thing Malvina does is bring the action.

I think you should read the Falcon Dark Age books again.

If the Dark Age novels have been re-written to be better quality... Sure I'll give them a shot. If not, I'm going to stick with BattleTech novels rather MechWarrior novels. I already dipped my toes into the Dark Age and like most fans, the water was pretty frigid and too shallow for me :<... From what I have heard though is that Catalyst are markedly improving the writing and that they are getting back to the quality of the older books. In honesty, I might pick up the ilClan book and give the lore a chance from that point onwards... But reading Ghost War, Call to Arms, then... Flight of the Falcon... And finally Target of Opportunity...

I love Blaine Lee Pardoe, without a doubt my favorite BattleTech Writer. I really, really love his writing. I'm just going to say, I'm going to give these new novels a chance, but I'm not reading another friggen book from Dark Ages, there is absolutely no chance. I read up on the summaries and such from Sarna and I hear a few of my old time BattleTech friends complain about each one they read and basically say how they wasted money on it and they won't do it again (they always do lol) so I dunno. Catalyst is a pretty cool company, so I am thinking they might be able to up the quality, even if at this point its impossible to white was or fix the mistakes of the past.

Every time I see someone complain about the direction the fiction is taking making no sense, I'm reminded of this very old post. 

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=31591.0


Cute.

One thing you have to understand about Malvina is that she's the ultimate expression of Might Makes Right. And the Clans are all about Might Makes Right. Don't like the work assignments? Challenge your superior to a fight, and if you beat him up enough, you win and you're right and the assignments change. Don't like your Star Commander's leadership? Fight him, and if you win, you're in charge. Want a factory or piece of land or something? Challenge the owners to a fight, and if you win, its yours.

Malvina is the ultimate expression of the Clan ideal, "Might is Right." If Clanners don't like what she's doing, then they have the right to try to stop her. If they can, then she's wrong and they're right. But so far she wins and thus, she's Right. Her direction is the Clan's direction.

And lets face it, trying to argue that the 3145 Falcons are wrong because it doesn't match with the 3050 fluff of them is pretty hinky in the first place. They've gone through the Jihad, been ejected from the Homeworlds due to the War of Reaving and the Society conflict and the enforced peace of Stone. That's 20 generations of change that the Falcons have gone through.

See, I can get what you are saying it has logic and such in a way none of these other arguments have... But essentially it is just a plot armor to justify the means. The Clan was completely opposite what they're doing now, the trials should have been darn near endless, there was precedence before for a Khan being trialed so many times they got removed simply due to attrition because they were offending the majority.

I'm not saying the 3050, I'm saying the 3080 lore of them... Its a good gap of time, I'll grant you that, and they've been gone from the Clan HomeWorlds but largely by choice. They weren't very bothered moving to the sphere and from what I read they weren't any bothered by their ejection now either. Time can change things, but there were a lot of factions that were already on the kusp of doing what the Falcons did, and much more likely to have done so. Kurita for instance, or the now completely bat nuts insane Federated Suns.

But I do get what you are saying, its a long time, things can happen.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 16 February 2016, 00:33:29
Malvina isn't fighting a trial every thirty minutes because after she brutally killed the former Khan in a trial she systematically purged the entire Falcon touman of disloyal Warriors or those she thought would revolt or trial against her.

She is not stupid.  She's ruthless, cruel, intelligent, well-equipped, and very, very angry.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 16 February 2016, 01:16:27
Marthe Pride didn't mass kill lower caste civilians, they killed Society agents.

There were ... no civilians caught in the killings ...

The worst she did was order the deaths of a few sphere scientists who had extensive contact with the society, who almost always turned out to be a part of or connected to the society.

Did you ever read Wars of Reaving?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Fletch on 16 February 2016, 02:35:28
"All right, no mor mister nice Clanner!"

I read that in a Daffy Duck voice ... seams appropriate for a bird thread.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 16 February 2016, 02:43:19
Did you ever read Wars of Reaving?

I did, they were extremely targeted and the Scientists were targeted, not laborers or Merchants. The scienstists were almost all patsies to Etienne a- wait I already explained this... Why am I re-explaining ._.

Malvina isn't fighting a trial every thirty minutes because after she brutally killed the former Khan in a trial she systematically purged the entire Falcon touman of disloyal Warriors or those she thought would revolt or trial against her.

She is not stupid.  She's ruthless, cruel, intelligent, well-equipped, and very, very angry.

Way I remember it she won in a mech duel, not exactly brutal just status quo, in a random trial she called which initiated a small civil war within the clan, which for some reason stood. I don't remember the language of the trial but it was just a randomly made up word from what I remember, with very little in the way of precedence, even though there were multiple trials she could have evoked.

I don't remember her culling the other side or possible dissenters, after she brought down Jana Pryde. Regardless, the Mongol movement started before she was a Khan even, before she was able to start infecting a clan... She killed a few thousand civilians, just normal laborer caste, something Marthe or ANY OTHER Jade Falcon Khan had -never- done and was outright considered a crime in any Clan save Smoke Jaguar. Remember she was just a commander or captain at the time, the only thing that protected her from that instance was plot armor.

I'm not 100% on anything after their first book but I've kept some tabs on the situation. She got away with murder, outright massacre... Regardless any "movement" that's just, not possible within a clan that at that time was majority progressive traditionalist, Jana Pryde could have ordered her dead then and there.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 16 February 2016, 03:09:00
Sorry Valaska I must agree with Kojak -  it's obvious that you either haven't read the books in question, have forgotten all the pertinent information or are distorting in your head what was written in the books.

(Wars of Reaving, Flight of the Falcon, Blood of the Isle, Rending of Falcons, Bonfire of Worlds, Field Manual 3145)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 16 February 2016, 04:04:27
Alright, I opened up my copy of the Wars of Reaving to the part where Étienne starts rebelling. Saw a few things worth sharing.

Our first atrocity happens on Parakolia: Khan Marthe Pryde orders the destruction of a dome city containing 14 million civilian hostages, all because certain inhabitants *could* be carrying an airborne virus. (p.100, WoR)

The eradication of the Scientist Caste, and how many scientists were killed regardless of any actual proof, gets detailed on p. 103. The Society might have been an issue, but you have to wonder how many innocent people got caught in the crossfire.

Then page 108 talks about how the Watch was given full reign to kill anyone suspected of being an intelligence agent, "regardless of affiliation of pleas of innocence", and how "a brutal crackdown on intellectuals and media...cut a bloody swath".

Etc. etc.

So. The Falcons originally gave their civilians certain liberties when compared to other Clans, liberties that a core of scientists fully exploited. The Falcons tried cracking down on the scientists, but that earned them the ire of their "new" majoritarily spheroid civilians. Obviously the Falcons couldn't allow that, so the Watch started offing those civilians as well. Then things started spiraling out of control until you have Khans getting assassinated and units like the Sokar getting built.

And that, right there, is how you go from being a "traditional" Clan that treats its lower castemen well, to a paranoid Clan that will do anything to keep the ruling caste in power. An evolution into their Dark Age selves comes to no surprise from that point on.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 16 February 2016, 04:18:17
Sorry Valaska I must agree with Kojak -  it's obvious that you either haven't read the books in question, have forgotten all the pertinent information or are distorting in your head what was written in the books.

(Wars of Reaving, Flight of the Falcon, Blood of the Isle, Rending of Falcons, Bonfire of Worlds, Field Manual 3145)

And not just Jihad and post-Jihad events either, there are considerable distortions in your pre-Jihad portrayals as well.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 16 February 2016, 04:30:38
... the destruction of a dome city containing 14 million civilian hostages ...

Quick correction (i think). The 14 million civilian hostages also included Valenti on the planet Waldorff - which was also in Etienne's hands at the time of his ultimatum - and I don't think we know how the population breaks down between the two cities.

But yeah, I think it would be safe to assume millions were killed by the Hawk Eye's bombardment.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 16 February 2016, 23:34:28
You guys still haven't gotten to Denizli, which had a body count of 4,000 before they started burning cities and hunting down anyone who hadn't already turned themselves in. Outside of the Society uprising, the Falcons supposedly destroyed the capital of Pasig with orbital bombardment in 3069. Dunno if we ever got confirmation on that.

And let's not forget the signature infantry unit for the Falcons in TRO3085 were anti-infantry cops (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/599/clan-anti-infantry-clan-jade-falcon-police). They sync up nicely with the Sokar.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Valaska on 17 February 2016, 00:56:20
Alright, I opened up my copy of the Wars of Reaving to the part where Étienne starts rebelling. Saw a few things worth sharing.

Our first atrocity happens on Parakolia: Khan Marthe Pryde orders the destruction of a dome city containing 14 million civilian hostages, all because certain inhabitants *could* be carrying an airborne virus. (p.100, WoR)

The eradication of the Scientist Caste, and how many scientists were killed regardless of any actual proof, gets detailed on p. 103. The Society might have been an issue, but you have to wonder how many innocent people got caught in the crossfire.

Then page 108 talks about how the Watch was given full reign to kill anyone suspected of being an intelligence agent, "regardless of affiliation of pleas of innocence", and how "a brutal crackdown on intellectuals and media...cut a bloody swath".

Etc. etc.

So. The Falcons originally gave their civilians certain liberties when compared to other Clans, liberties that a core of scientists fully exploited. The Falcons tried cracking down on the scientists, but that earned them the ire of their "new" majoritarily spheroid civilians. Obviously the Falcons couldn't allow that, so the Watch started offing those civilians as well. Then things started spiraling out of control until you have Khans getting assassinated and units like the Sokar getting built.

And that, right there, is how you go from being a "traditional" Clan that treats its lower castemen well, to a paranoid Clan that will do anything to keep the ruling caste in power. An evolution into their Dark Age selves comes to no surprise from that point on.

Though cruel it sounded, the airborne virus was a big risk. It wasn't pretty business but that was done with reason, I disagree with how she went about it as surely isolating them and spending enough time working on the SLOT virus could have came up with a cure. But in the end they erred on the side of caution, it wasn't an act done out of glee.

The Scientists were targeted due to their connection to the society and trueborn's, not all were eradicated mind you, remember there were quite a few scientists still in trust such as Peri Watson, and it is also mentioned that any non-trueborn scientists sphere born, who had no to little contact with the trueborn scientists weren't targeted with investigation. The InnerSphere born scientists who did have contact with them were under investigation by Kael Perschaw and they were found colluding with Etienne. Can I say "No innocent scientists were harmed in the saving of this Clan" of course not, but the Falcons still had a scientist caste after the fact and still were capable of re-locating and resuming their sibko's.

It wasn't to just keep the ruling class in charge, The Society was threatening the lives of -every- trueborn warrior, and had all but eradicated entire blood houses. They moved about this systematically in every other clan save their loose allies, their opening moves in the war was to release the SLOT virus killing thousands upon thousands of soldiers. The Watch was fighting, literally, a terrorist organization which was threatening the very foundation of Clan society, much like today they were not willing to negotiate with these terrorists and they persecuted them with extreme prejudice. Kael Perschaw was so efficient that the Clan for the most part had no idea what was happening, its explained in that book (Its buried somewhere in boxes atm...) that the majority of Civilians and even Scientists had no idea what was going on. Most deaths looked accidental or like random murders.

And again, the Genetics program carried on after they ended The Society... At a horrible cost, but it wasn't a cost that they went into with glee. Other than Marthe laughing at Etienne's threat, which I mean it was laughable, a terrorist organization of scientists was threatening extremely hardened and trained warriors. I don't think anyone saw them doing the damage they ended up doing in the end.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 17 February 2016, 03:55:47
Peri was probably the most trusted of the caste, too bad she got whacked before even the Hellions showed up. Afterwards, the Falcons killed so many scientists that they had to trial the Wolves and Horses for more. Overall, Marthe Pryde was setting a pretty good precedent for Malvina, and her response to Society uprising in particular. Still wonder if it was Adam Steiner who gave the order to take her out.

Ignoring revisionism for a moment, what are some of the favorite Dark Age Falcon mechs on the tabletop? From previous discussions it sounds like there are a lot of good options. Do you like fast and jumpy like the bird mechs or going slower with extra guns like the Jupiter and Hel?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 February 2016, 11:06:25
Haven't really had a chance to try out any of the slow gunboats yet, but I really like the fast jumpers. They play very Falconlike to me, as they force the warrior to push his mobility and skill to the limit in order to stay alive long enough for the below-average firepower to get the job done. Plays a lot like an Invasion-era Thor, and is also why I've always been sad that the Gladiator was never a very common Falcon mech.

I especially like the ones with cluster weapons of any kind, as they allow an exceptionally skilled gunner to go for the quick and lethal kill with called high shots. High risk, high reward, just the way Falcons like 'em. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 17 February 2016, 13:42:20
And let's not forget the signature infantry unit for the Falcons in TRO3085 were anti-infantry cops (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/599/clan-anti-infantry-clan-jade-falcon-police). They sync up nicely with the Sokar.

Yeah, there are all kinds of little tidbits about this kind of direction. A telling bit from FM:3085 ...

Lambda Solahma often acts as opposition force and shepherds the sibkin on off-world training expeditions against Clan Hell's Horses. The Second Falcon Swoop Cluster used to have this role, but has been moved on to Erewhon after displaying conduct unbecoming of the Clan in front of the sibkin while performing an anti-insurgent sweep. As Erewhon was a former hotbed of insurgent activity, it is hoped that the Second Swoop's "talents" will be of some use.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 17 February 2016, 15:36:22
I've given a few of the new units some testing. A few thoughts (hardly comprehensive):

Eyrie: Nastier than it looks at a glance. Quick, agile, harasses at long ranges but closes fast to deliver wicked laser and ATM fire- and the talons are an unexpected finishing move. Very impressive design- not perfect, but very useful, particularly when it has fire support from...

Gyrfalcon: It's like the old Rifleman is reborn, but with incredible range, great mobility, and heat dissipation. So, nothing like the Rifleman, I guess. Still, hitting with four guns past 24 hexes, that's pretty serious stuff- and able to keep hopping backwards to hold the range, no less.

Jade Hawk: Like the Eyrie on steroids. Hard to think of a design to compare it to- it's more like the Tazmanian Devil from cartoons. Get close and just start whirling death in all directions. Needs support or broken terrain to be effective, but very nasty if it can get close.

Shrike: In many ways the least impressive of the new 'big four'. Works a lot like the old Executioner actually- jumps further, lacks the headcapper (seriously guys, Ultra-5s?), but remarkably cool-running. Tough cookies for sure- great command unit for a Star.

Hel: HUGE fan. Surprise. All three models have been fun, but the B (yes, the Hel-B, screw you) in particular has been fun to use. Battle armor are a bigger threat in the Dark Age than ever before- what better way to tell them to go away than a howitzer round or two?

Thor II: Tough to argue with an upgrade to my favorite all-time Mech. But, in true Thor fashion, some configurations make strange pod choices. When it's on, it's a marvel. When it isn't... it's as frustrating as its predecessor can be.

Jupiter: Beef. Just... beef. Again with the Ultra-5s, but with four of them chattering you can forgive it a little. Hits hard at long ranges, but runs awfully warm- tough to make brackets when all eight weapons are long range oriented. I'm biased in favor of the Jup-3, but it's a great machine for chattering away with a hell of a ballistic punch.

Thunderbolt IIC: ...I want to like this. But it just runs too hot- those lasers are too much, replacing them with ERs would help a ton. But the Streak rack is nice, for sure. Sadly, one of the worst minis in a long time.  :-\
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 18 February 2016, 04:09:57
I've seen a reposed Thunderbolt IIC that didn't look terrible, but it still lacking compared to the artwork. I feel the same way about the Onager's mini. Some sawing and sculpting can fix some of the problems, but not everything.

Glad to see more comments on how to use the bird mechs. Many seemed undergunned to me, but it looks like some Falcon finesse and persistence is called for. The Gyrfalcon 4 caught my eye, purely for the twin TSEMPs

The Shadow Cat II looks a little unimaginative, but now I'm starting to see the potential in its HAG-20. Any thoughts on it or the Battlemaster C?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 18 February 2016, 12:03:33
I've got mixed feelings about the Shadow Cat II. On the one hand, it's very clearly a jumper/sniper/harasser along the same lines as the Thor and the totem mechs. On the other, it really lacks armor even for a role that relies more on evading hits than surviving them. It's less like a second-line Thor, and more like a Hellbringer that happens to jump, except that it lacks the raw firepower that skilled Hellbringer pilots can use to end a fight before their mech falls apart. While many Clan Battlemechs are just as nasty as their Omni counterparts, I think the Shad II is truly meant to be second-rate crap, kinda like a Falcon-flavored Hunchback IIC. Come to think of it, the extremes of mobility and armor, plus the mix of ballistic, missile, and energy weaponry, means it could make a nice trainer mech, meant to instill good Falconlike habits in cadets so they don't smash up Thors or Gyrfalcons in stand-up fights.

The standard Shadow Cat II is very much a support unit, and thus works best in forces with a more relaxed opinion of zell, either because of second-line status, or Mongol leanings. Pair it with a hole-puncher like a Thunderbolt IIC and let the other guy do the heavy fighting while you finish things off. The cluster nature of its weapons also makes it ideally suited for stopping big tanks before they can get into range of your main force, always a good thing when you're sandwiched between the Lyrans and Hells Horses. The HAG also makes a pretty good AA gun.

The II-2 is pretty easy to figure out. Insane mobility plus an accurate energy main gun means you can jump/snipe/harass until the cows come home.

The II-3 is a lot like the II-2, though the SRM batteries add an interesting wrinkle. You now have the option for some really powerful critseeking or backstabbing salvos, though I strongly advise you to rely on your laser to open plenty of holes first, as you still don't have the armor to survive very long in close combat.

The II-4 is the closest the Shadow Cat II comes to a general purpose heavy mech, as the Gauss finally gives you the concentrated crunch this mech needs to actually take on another heavy mech solo, and even then you'll still need to rely on every maneuvering trick in the book to offset the ever-present lack of armor.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 18 February 2016, 14:53:44
First, Onager mini? Yeah, the prancing leg is awful, but fix that (and some cutting at the hip fixes it nicely into a walk), and the rest is REALLY nice. It's one of the better ones I've worked on recently, actually- I'll try to get a photo.

But, since I did miss a few:

Shadow Cat II: Just... meh. It's just not all that great really for the weight. It's not BAD, just not great. (Side note, building the Shadow Cat II to the dossier specified for the old Bannson's Raiders version in MWDA results in 1.5 tons of armor. Seriously. It's kind of funny). Makes for a pretty good element of a fire support star though- a couple of LRM racks to add to the fun, a HAG to tell enemy aircraft to back off... decent anyway.

Onager: It's a beast, no doubt, but... it's also a cautionary tale, much like the Karhu Prime. The ability to jump like a Thor? That's pretty impressive. That you invested that much weight to do it? Yeeeeeah... no. It's just painfully undergunned as a result of this choice- a switch to 3/5/3 unlocks mounds of weight to improve the design (upgrading those shoulder lasers to the Shrike's ER larges is a snazzy upgrade, and explains the first steps that lead from the Onager to the Shrike later), or if you really want to move faster just become 4/6/4. But as it is, this is a design that invests far too much mass into far too little result. As it is though, it's a handy unit as an urban nightmare machine, or as a bodyguard for long-range units like Gyrfalcons or Huey-tanks. Using one on the urban maps against an entire star of conventional forces is pretty entertaining.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 18 February 2016, 22:03:45
Interesting comment on the Shadow Cat II as a trainer. The weight also means the nestlings get some experience handling fast heavies that are common in the Touman.

Sounds like the Shrike is the better choice to its predecessor and worth the extra BV. The mild BV savings on the Onager and Shadow Cat II aren't really selling me either. I really like the Onager artwork, but even after fixing the ballet leg I'd want to adjust the claw arm, head, and maybe the SRM launchers. A lot of tweaking for an underwhelming mech. Might be worth proxying in the next CBT game though. Sadly I'm the only person in my group who uses combined arms, so the HAG isn't going to stop any vehicles. Also means I don't have any PBIs to brutally suppress with Sokars and Falcon cops.  :(
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 18 February 2016, 22:08:01
If you don't care for the original Onager, try taking the Onager 2 for a spin. It's one of the hidden gems of 3145 NTNU.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 February 2016, 18:09:10
The Eyrie is a horrible little beast made out of hatred that brings death to all it goes near. So I love it very much.

The Gyrfalcon is the world's most annoying thing.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 23 February 2016, 03:20:06
Took the Onager for a spin this weekend and it really feels like a garrison mech. The bulk of the pulse lasers are more anti-infantry weapons and the standard SRMs make nice with alternate ammunition. Bringing Infernos helped my opponent kill his own Dervish. Didn't really leverage the jumping as much as I should have, and the thing could really use more MPLs to factor in the loss of accuracy. If facing massed hordes of infantry, the Onager might work nicely with the Sokars and CJF anti-infantry coppers.

For the game I paired it with a Battlemaster C, which is a brute. Plays like a regular Battlemaster hopped up on Clan tech, so no real surprises there. Though the TC+MPLs left a munchy aftertaste.

Dunno if I'm going to try the Onager 2 anytime soon. Got a funny look when I described how HarJel of Regeneration worked.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 23 February 2016, 10:30:19
Interesting...I've been slowly putting together a collection of third-line Falcon units to run as a Watch group meant to be used against civilian riots, insurrections, and pirates, and your description makes it sound like an Onager could work well here. It would provide a Big and Scary for intimidation purposes, and it sounds like that weapons load would be good against armored and unarmored units alike.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 23 February 2016, 11:17:01
Interesting...I've been slowly putting together a collection of third-line Falcon units to run as a Watch group meant to be used against civilian riots, insurrections, and pirates, and your description makes it sound like an Onager could work well here. It would provide a Big and Scary for intimidation purposes, and it sounds like that weapons load would be good against armored and unarmored units alike.

It's very pricey for a role like that, but otherwise you're absolutely right. Call it the Star Captain perhaps? It's also made easier to justify by pointing out that the Onager's being replaced eventually by the Shrike means that spare Onagers might be relegated to second-rate duties, of course.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 23 February 2016, 11:36:40
Bingo. It'll probably be the unit's XO, with the command ride being the Schatten that's been sitting half-finished on my desk for a couple years now.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 25 February 2016, 04:16:13
Interesting...I've been slowly putting together a collection of third-line Falcon units to run as a Watch group meant to be used against civilian riots, insurrections, and pirates, and your description makes it sound like an Onager could work well here. It would provide a Big and Scary for intimidation purposes, and it sounds like that weapons load would be good against armored and unarmored units alike.

The Onager soaked up fire fairly well, doing its share of intimidation. The standard engine and Clan CASE helps play zombie, and the IJJs should add decent responsiveness. Kinda wish they had traded some of the HAG ammo for more pulse lasers, but the four tons are more practical from an endurance perspective.

If I may ask, how does the Schatten factor into the force? Battlefield intelligence features? Or just a great supervillain platform for old-fashioned mustache-twirling and maniacal laughter?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 25 February 2016, 11:13:00
Both, really. :)

The Schatten is an EXCELLENT counterinsurgency unit. Every time it overflies a map, it has nine 8+ rolls to detect each hidden unit on the board. The comm gear gives your whole force a +1 initiative. You can put two full Points of foot infantry(or one foot and one jump) in the cargo bay and drop them for quick snatches. The lasers can take out fleeing light vehicles, perform pinpoint antipersonnel strikes even in the middle of crowds(**** that rabble-rouser in particular!), or even strafe riots for a dramatic effect that doesn't actually kill that many Laborers. As far as airships go, it's actually very fast and tough. It costs less than 200 BV. And it has a huge underside, perfect for a bigass intimidating Falcon paint job.

And if you really want to get nasty, pair it with a Dixon or two, each capable of dropping Sokars and riot troops directly on top of a problem. >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 February 2016, 11:32:15
...i actually did just imagine it with this painted underneath (in green, of course):

(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080218020421/startrek/images/9/97/Bop23rom.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 27 February 2016, 19:44:58
Does anyone have the official PDF of the old Falcon Sourcebook? I don't have access to a scanner and I'm looking to get the exact green as shown on the 'Falcon Camo' colour insert.

Would anyone be able to post a screenshot of an unshadowed section of the Summoner or Elemental? The Elemental's shins/feet seem particularly suitable.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 27 February 2016, 22:03:32
Green?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 28 February 2016, 06:23:20
Thanks for going through the hassle.

I guess I'll have to get to a scanner ... the PDF is too far off the print version.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 07 April 2016, 13:49:04
Query, fellow emerald budgies.

Battle armor can ride Omnimechs, as we know, and for other situations battle armor can ride in style in such units as the Svantovit and Anhur (other treats like the Tyr are, sadly, not options for us. Mmmmmm, Tyrs.) However, while working on a Jihad-era force, I had a realization... Ironholds. Unless I'm mistaken (possible), they can't ride Omnis, particularly the assault version. That leaves me with a tough spot:

1) Leave them out of the formation completely. Sucks, because the firepower and toughness would be great to have for this force, but there's no good way to have them walk on their own, obviously, and pace an urban rapid-strike force like this (largest unit is a Gargoyle, all units 5/8 at least)

2) Accept APCs such as Svantovits into the force, in which case I'm using combat vehicles at a point where the Falcons are still saying "ewwww" at the idea of using tanks. I can attach Anhurs, but the vulnerability and the fact that they can't unload in mid-air like Elementals can is a huge drawback.

Am I stuck with Elementals/Afreets? Or are there options here that I'm not seeing?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 07 April 2016, 14:33:55
The only Omni that can carry Ironholds is the Kirghiz, dropping standard suits in a typical combat drop, or the upgunned models with BADCs. I suppose you could land the fighter on the battlefield if you don't want to drop them(and talk about your gun trucks once it's landed! :o ), but you lose your chance to play It's Raining Men over the coms. If you don't want to go aero, you're pretty stuck with second-line stuff.

I suppose you could use support vees, and have them declared noncombatants in your Batchall. Use them solely to go in and make their deposit, and since they're not properly military, they can be argued to be neither front nor second line.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 07 April 2016, 16:11:39
The problem is that this force isn't really intended for 'batchall'- this is more of a 'hello WoBbie' kind of force, and it's unlikely that the Falcons will offer zellbrigen- nor that the Word would follow it. So using trucks and such is probably not going to end well for this group. (If I was looking at the Horses, Hellions, even Steiner, I'd give it more thought, but here...)

And yes, I've always loved the Kirghiz-C for its Elemental-dump role. The Falcons don't use that bird much, but it turns out one can creat much the same setup with the Falcon-common Scytha if one wishes.  ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 07 April 2016, 17:12:25
Yeah, that's kinda the problem with Assault BA, there's no easy way to transport them (see the notable pilot entries in TRO3150 for the Fusilier and JI2A1 Attack APC for one way I came up with to lug them around, Prey Seeker is also part of that unit).

For the Falcons, during the Jihad, according to the MUL your options are the Indra, Svantovit, Anhur, and Clan Maxim. After the Jihad the Falcons gain the Ku "Turhan II", MHI Amphibious APC, and Cardinal Transport.

In Clan combat Assault BA are basically only defensive unit, unless you devote the APC/Transport units to move them. The IS forces have fewer Omnis so they tend to rely on APCs & transports to lug all their BA around, so this is nothing new. I'd either tell those Falcons to suck it up and find them a ride or have the Ironholds waddle across the battlefield and try to herd the Wobbies towards them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 07 April 2016, 18:18:50
Can I recommend the Saladin (Clan Cargo)? No question of counting them in a batchall. And I've been told one can treat CT as IT as long as the change is made before play commences. Three points per - or one, if you prefer the TO weight rules.

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 10 April 2016, 19:46:55
So I'm finally reading TRO 3150. The Roadrunner was... the Emerald Harrier?! That's extremely interesting to me. Can you imagine early Falcon warriors being told that they'll be piloting a 15 ton deathtrap? Not what you expect, though I suppose the post-Culling times were desperate enough to warrant it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 11 April 2016, 07:28:58
So I'm finally reading TRO 3150. The Roadrunner was... the Emerald Harrier?! That's extremely interesting to me. Can you imagine early Falcon warriors being told that they'll be piloting a 15 ton deathtrap? Not what you expect, though I suppose the post-Culling times were desperate enough to warrant it.
It's also in XTRO:Republic I, where you find out it was used in more than just the post-culling era.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 11 April 2016, 18:55:03
So I'm finally reading TRO 3150. The Roadrunner was... the Emerald Harrier?! That's extremely interesting to me. Can you imagine early Falcon warriors being told that they'll be piloting a 15 ton deathtrap? Not what you expect, though I suppose the post-Culling times were desperate enough to warrant it.

Of course not! True Falcons choose the 65-ton deathtrap of the Hellbringer!

(More seriously, I'm guessing the early Falcons went through a period of teenage experimentation. While some might find solace in necrosia, and while the Jaguars were becoming addicted to moustache wax [all the better for moustache twirling], the Falcons tried Hellion-like speed freakery. Unlike the Hellions, the Falcons came out of that rebellious phase - after all, you couldn't mount enough weapons on light 'Mechs to be worthwhile ;) )
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 12 April 2016, 10:41:56
Of course not! True Falcons choose the 65-ton deathtrap of the Hellbringer!

(More seriously, I'm guessing the early Falcons went through a period of teenage experimentation. While some might find solace in necrosia, and while the Jaguars were becoming addicted to moustache wax [all the better for moustache twirling], the Falcons tried Hellion-like speed freakery. Unlike the Hellions, the Falcons came out of that rebellious phase - after all, you couldn't mount enough weapons on light 'Mechs to be worthwhile ;) )

Refutement, exhibit A:

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/5/5f/Cougar.jpg/611px-Cougar.jpg.png)

;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 13 April 2016, 12:43:27
That's not a Light 'Mech, though, it's a Heavy on a diet.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Frogfoot on 13 April 2016, 19:17:03

How about these little guys, Exhibits B&C:

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/6/63/Vixen.jpg)


(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/1/19/Solitaire.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 13 April 2016, 21:14:26
Refutement, exhibit A:

;)

It was a phase, I said! Like Megatron back in the eighties. I mean, everyone was being a handgun there for a while. So he tried it. It's not a crime if he never inhaled the powder smoke, right?

Jeez ...  ::)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Iron Wolf on 06 May 2016, 02:51:54
MWO's Night Gyr looks impressive.

(https://static.mwomercs.com/packages/nightgyr/img/concept-nightgyr-hero.png)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Adgar76 on 06 May 2016, 05:34:03
Gorgeous!   O0

I might even buy this bundle, that Turkina Keshik (i think) camo looks absolutely fantastic.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 06 May 2016, 07:53:45
Structurally badass, but the paint job looks like that bird just took a most hideous dump. ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Adgar76 on 06 May 2016, 08:09:48
That is what bondsmen are for  :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 09 May 2016, 08:02:04
Structurally badass, but the paint job looks like that bird just took a most hideous dump. ;D

 [wildandcrazy] :))  hadn't noticed that...until now.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: FredrikR on 26 May 2016, 06:54:51
I have spent very little actual cash on MWO so far, as I don't have a lot of time to play...but...it's the Night Gyr fer cryin' out loud!
Payment sent.    O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Frogfoot on 26 May 2016, 19:27:16
I prefer the original with its taller shoulder pads and smoother lines. I like the new one's feet and lower legs better but that's all.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: FredrikR on 27 May 2016, 10:00:55
Lore for the Night Gyr hero version (Timur Malthus' "Jade Kite") is up.
Features good old Timur on Von Strang's World back in '49, and also his spider sense aka "I have a bad feeling about this"...

https://mwomercs.com/news/2016/05/1553-night-gyr-lore-blueprint (https://mwomercs.com/news/2016/05/1553-night-gyr-lore-blueprint)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SteveRestless on 27 May 2016, 19:10:53
3049's a bit premature for the night gyr, is it not? I wonder if Timur's mech was an early test type or production example.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 27 May 2016, 20:25:07
TRO 3058U states the Night Gyr was developed during the latter stages of Operation Revival, so I guess it's remotely possible that Timur is piloting one of the earliest prototypes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 June 2016, 15:44:18
I just had an epiphany, that I think my fellow Falcons might be well able to make use of, given some of our preferred Omnis.

There are no hot-running flashbulbs. There are only players who don't know/forget the following two facts:

1: TacOps, page 102. You can dial down the output of almost any energy weapon, with heat output also going down at a 1/1 damage/heat ratio.

2: Most Clan energy weapons have damage potential to spare.

A Hellbringer Prime that only cares about movement heat at long range, while slamming out twin 13-point bolts until the cows come home, a Warhawk Prime that can alternate between triple 13-point shots or quad 10-pointers...a Nova that's putting out twelve 5-pointers every round...I think you can see where this is going. ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 16 June 2016, 17:40:49
I just had an epiphany, that I think my fellow Falcons might be well able to make use of, given some of our preferred Omnis.

There are no hot-running flashbulbs. There are only players who don't know/forget the following two facts:

1: TacOps, page 102. You can dial down the output of almost any energy weapon, with heat output also going down at a 1/1 damage/heat ratio.

2: Most Clan energy weapons have damage potential to spare.

A Hellbringer Prime that only cares about movement heat at long range, while slamming out twin 13-point bolts until the cows come home, a Warhawk Prime that can alternate between triple 13-point shots or quad 10-pointers...a Nova that's putting out twelve 5-pointers every round...I think you can see where this is going. ^-^

Sound like Spheroid trickery to me!   ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 June 2016, 17:52:14
I call it bidding away kilojoules. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 16 June 2016, 18:06:54
Genius.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 16 June 2016, 21:03:16
It's only dezgra if your opponent does it first?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 16 June 2016, 21:07:01
No, you have to look at this way.  You're not dialing back your damage to cheese your heat.  You're weakening your attacks to make the fight more interesting.  Or instead, your opponent isn't worthy enough to bother bringing your full potential.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 16 June 2016, 21:39:29
However, all your opponent needs to do is say "Nope, don't agree to this optional rule."

Weirdo, I challenge your un-Falcon-like approach. We do not shy away from the heat of battle! We are Jade Falcon - Falcon Sight sees the advantage of heavier firepower, while Falcon Sweat cools our mighty tactical intellects. We do not shy from burns and death in battle! We do not pretend - like our Care Bear brethren - to embrace coldness, sloth, and inaction! Falcon Talons tear like fiery swords, matching the heat of our cockpits!

Who is with me, brethren and sistren of the Turkina!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 June 2016, 23:35:34
Bah! True followers of Turkina know that it is Falcon Skill that has kept us at the pinnacle of Clan Society, and part of skill is knowing how all the buttons in your mech work! Those who know only how to set the throttle to full and mash the alpha strike button belong with the Jaguars.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 16 June 2016, 23:50:52
Bah! True followers of Turkina know that it is Falcon Skill that has kept us at the pinnacle of Clan Society, and part of skill is knowing how all the buttons in your mech work! Those who know only how to set the throttle to full and mash the alpha strike button belong with the Jaguars.

Well, duh.  Falcons know where the jump jet pedal is!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 June 2016, 09:29:27
Bingo. You also need to know how to work the radio, in order to cacaw at your opponent properly. Similarly, being able to tune in to the nearest soft jazz station is great for building up a proper Clanlike level of rage at everything around you.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 17 June 2016, 16:28:18
However, all your opponent needs to do is say "Nope, don't agree to this optional rule."

It's all in the delivery.

Jade Falcon Player: "hey, let's play some CBT!"

Lesser Clan Player: "I dunno. You always win."

JFP: "Well there is an optional rule that lets me reduce the damage on some of my energy weapons.  I could play with that."

LCP:  "oh, okay!"

JFP:  "muhahahaha, victory is assured!"

LCP:  "what was that?"

JFP:  "Oh uh, I was saying your victory is assured..."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 June 2016, 17:03:54
I believe that is the very definition of 'bargained well and done.' O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 17 June 2016, 18:13:41
However, all your opponent needs to do is say "Nope, don't agree to this optional rule."

Weirdo, I challenge your un-Falcon-like approach. We do not shy away from the heat of battle! We are Jade Falcon - Falcon Sight sees the advantage of heavier firepower, while Falcon Sweat cools our mighty tactical intellects. We do not shy from burns and death in battle! We do not pretend - like our Care Bear brethren - to embrace coldness, sloth, and inaction! Falcon Talons tear like fiery swords, matching the heat of our cockpits!

Who is with me, brethren and sistren of the Turkina!

Your words about the ghost bears hurt sir...i just wanted you to know that sometimes a phrase can do more damage than a orbital strike on a lowly Kurita world  :'( .... Plus some of us Bear players have all ready been using this tactic for months,welcome to being last to the party as always you jade turkeys  :P

Firemoth2s for daaaaaaaaays Trothson!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 18 June 2016, 22:40:06
I point an evil grin at your way...

 ^-^

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 June 2016, 03:29:34
Don't Falcon harder or Falcon smarter. Falcon both!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 19 June 2016, 15:58:24
Don't Falcon harder or Falcon smarter. Falcon both!

I feel like this is a good Falcon motto, actually.  The way I started to grow to...well, tolerate the Falcons was through the lens that they are the "Frank Grimes" of the Clan.  Nobody works as hard to be the smartest and the best of the Clans as the Falcons do.

(Malvina Hazen is essentially them going, "I DON'T NEED SAFETY GLOVES BECAUSE I'M HOMER SIMPSON!")
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 19 June 2016, 16:52:51
Malvina Hazen made a practice of bidding away the safety gloves.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 19 June 2016, 18:08:30
I feel like this is a good Falcon motto, actually.  The way I started to grow to...well, tolerate the Falcons was through the lens that they are the "Frank Grimes" of the Clan.  Nobody works as hard to be the smartest and the best of the Clans as the Falcons do.

At least some Falcons do.  Others let their arrogance get away with them and consider it a matter of course that they are the smartest and best of the Clans.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 07 September 2016, 16:27:53
Presenting your opponent with lose/lose choices is always fun. To that end...Hueys escorted by local-build SRM Carriers. Has anyone tried this? The idea is that no matter which slow, thin-skinned target you try to kill, something's gonna unload a world of hurt on you.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 07 September 2016, 21:43:24
I see what you did there Weirdo...

Try this on for size...

Points of Demolisher C and Morriqu, either version.

Just like the old Hetzer - Schrek combo.

Your welcome for the horror that befalls from this.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 07 September 2016, 22:11:04
I'm actually painting up a pair of Demo-Cs, destined for that same Star.

Because of the size of Clan vee Stars, the group will more often than not split into two demi-Stars in battle. First half is my MBT force, consisting of three Carnivore-HAGs and two Demolisher-Cs. Second half is the artillery section, composed of two Hueys, escorted by two Scorpions, and one...not sure, which is why I was asking about the SRM Carrier. It seems to fit the Falcon view of tanks, with austerity and apathy compensated for by raw brutality.

(Before you ask, there will be spotters in other Stars. I'm planning to expand this to a full Trinary composed of this heavy Star, a recon hover Star, and a VTOL Star.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 08 September 2016, 18:29:56
Kindly take this vehicle nonsense out of my Jade Falcon thread!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 08 September 2016, 19:22:20
Remember trothkin, that SRM Carrier may be crewed by freeborn degenerate surats who can barely grunt the requisite screeching, but they are still Jade Falcons, and thus inherently superior to any mechwarriors from other Clans, much less a spheroid realm!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 08 September 2016, 21:15:24
Remember trothkin, that SRM Carrier may be crewed by freeborn degenerate surats who can barely grunt the requisite screeching, but they are still Jade Falcons, and thus inherently superior to any mechwarriors from other Clans, much less a spheroid realm!

Truer words were never spoken
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 08 September 2016, 22:09:06
Remember trothkin, that SRM Carrier may be crewed by freeborn degenerate surats who can barely grunt the requisite screeching, but they are still Jade Falcons, and thus inherently superior to any mechwarriors from other Clans, much less a spheroid realm!

"They may be disposable scum, but they're OUR disposable scum! And that makes them inherently superior to YOUR disposable scum!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 09 September 2016, 00:15:07
Exactly! On that note, I need to see if I can find more surprisingly useful utter crap I can populate my second-line stuff with.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 09 September 2016, 00:22:41
Hueys and Urbie IICs - point-matches made in heaven!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 09 September 2016, 01:16:15
Hueys and Urbie IICs - point-matches made in heaven!

Whatever keeps the second-line Hells Horses abtakha happy...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 09 September 2016, 09:19:50
Exactly! On that note, I need to see if I can find more surprisingly useful utter crap I can populate my second-line stuff with.

Spirits? The mini kinda sucks, but it's a surprisingly good Mech, able to fight at any range.

Pinions? I mean, it blows at most jobs, but... well, disposable... I haven't got much nice to say about the Pinion.

Oooooh, Chalupa-tanks! War crimes with tires, plus the mini is really nice!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 09 September 2016, 09:52:35
Chalupas do not qualify as crap in my book. 8) I do need more of those, though. The pair I have so far are slated for my Watch observation/intervention unit.

I'm trying to build my Kappas into the kind of force that makes a proper Clanner(and even some spheroids) say "Ew" when they see it. Not the kind of "Ew" when you see something that'll chew your foot off if you kick it, the "Ew" of seeing an ant hill that has grown up around a half-eaten turkey that was thrown out two weeks ago. Imagine looking at the Millennium Falcon for the first time, without knowing what's under the hood.

Of course, the idea is that this force will still chew your foot off if you kick it...you just don't know it yet. >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 09 September 2016, 10:27:08
Hmmmm. In that case, how many old Scorpion tanks do you think could have been knocked out and then repaired during the invasion?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 09 September 2016, 10:46:10
Exactly. Now if you can find any evidence that the Falcons actually kept any Peregrine VTOLs they captured... ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 09 September 2016, 10:53:51
Exactly. Now if you can find any evidence that the Falcons actually kept any Peregrine VTOLs they captured... ^-^

I would think even a sohlama unit would do better than to get saddled with that trash. The Clans abhor waste, after all- where's the efficiency in keeping one of those lemons flying, what with its control problems, excessive maintenance needs, etc.? Better off scrapping it and using the parts to keep actual combat units running.

...say, what about Hunters? Ubiquitous, simple, easily repaired, but not useful in the front (or even second) line.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 09 September 2016, 11:05:26
Not a bad idea, actually. I'll have to keep those in mind.

I really need to get to the MUL on a proper pc. My phone won't do the filters for some reason, and I'd love to see what all the Falcons have access to, with the Clan stuff filtered out.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 September 2016, 11:27:02
Look into my eyes barrels when talking to me, mister!

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/8/8f/Carnivore.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 09 September 2016, 14:42:29
That's awfully familiar...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 12 September 2016, 20:57:39
Carnivore. O0

For second line Clan vehicles, what about Strikers?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 13 September 2016, 02:57:14
Was going to recommend the bargain bin Flatbed Truck with LRMs (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1130/flatbed-truck-lrm), but sadly it's on the IS General list instead of IS Clan General list.

The MUL does specifically shows that the Falcons have access to the Scorpion, from the invasion onward. Multiple flavors, too. For clown car potential, looks like the Jade Falcon cargo Saladin could haul an entire Star of footslogging solahma to their glorious end.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 September 2016, 13:11:54
Definitely going to have to look at the BatmobileSaladin, as that sounds like a nice way to fill out the transport half of my scout/transport Star with something other than Maxim Cs, and I won't feel bad about putting some genuinely scary hovers in the scout half. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 13 September 2016, 17:39:53
Badger C, Bandit C, Command Point Saladin LBX-20 ( consider them clantech ) and I believe some Pike C's for support.

Enjoy...

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 September 2016, 11:06:21
Wait, I've got it!  Utter crap compared to any true Clan unit, cheap enough to be obtained by the Kappas, just barely effective enough that it might earn its Work Credits back in one less battle than it will likely survive...Barouche! (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3793/barouche-military-transport-standard) ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 14 September 2016, 11:21:03
That sounds familiar....
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 14 September 2016, 12:19:28
Wait, I've got it!  Utter crap compared to any true Clan unit, cheap enough to be obtained by the Kappas, just barely effective enough that it might earn its Work Credits back in one less battle than it will likely survive...Barouche! (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3793/barouche-military-transport-standard) ;D
Looks good for strategic campaigns where it can carry a Star of Ironholds, but it can't deploy them in combat
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 September 2016, 12:25:14
Sure it can. You just have to be really careful, and they'll likely have to travel the last bit under their own power.

Remember, "Can't" and "It's a Bad Idea" are two very different things. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 15 September 2016, 08:06:29
Sure it can. You just have to be really careful, and they'll likely have to travel the last bit under their own power.

Remember, "Can't" and "It's a Bad Idea" are two very different things. :)
Ok, you got me there. But what caught my eye is pg 64 & 106 of Alpha Strike. It has a CT25. The CT text says any cargo is deployed using the "Units as Cargo" rules from pg 64. That section says it can only unload 1 unit per turn (so a single point of BA) and that unit is only combat ready after 30 turns.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 September 2016, 09:33:31
Check the errata. CT and IT are freely interchangeable at the start of any game. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 15 September 2016, 13:34:10
Check the errata. CT and IT are freely interchangeable at the start of any game. :)
Well, I definitely missed that one.  [face palm]
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 16 September 2016, 21:16:30
Remember when I first saw that the coolant trucks had CT8, my first thought was to load them up with battle armor and have them burst out Kool-Aid style.

Dunno if this has come up before, but is there anything to suggest the Falcons used captured IS battle armor? I'm vaguely aware of the GD Surat, but I was thinking the Sloth fits the "bad idea" mold, and might spark trials of refusal by those assigned to use it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 19 September 2016, 08:50:25
Remember when I first saw that the coolant trucks had CT8, my first thought was to load them up with battle armor and have them burst out Kool-Aid style.

Dunno if this has come up before, but is there anything to suggest the Falcons used captured IS battle armor? I'm vaguely aware of the GD Surat, but I was thinking the Sloth fits the "bad idea" mold, and might spark trials of refusal by those assigned to use it.

Depending on how you view MWDA's armies, the Falcons used things like Fenrir and Grey Death armor. Whether that can be relied on is a bit open to interpretation (remember, this game also gave Ullers to several armies but not the Falcons, and Zeuses to several armies- including the Falcons and Kurita!- but not Steiner), but it's possible anyway for them to be using stuff like that here and there- likely in second-line units, if they do.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 19 September 2016, 09:38:04
I imagine that like most armies, the Falcons are using whatever they can get their hands on. Inferior Spheroid machines would be funneled to garrison and solahma units so that the 'true' Clanners can use the proper tools of war.

During the Desant and the occupation of the Reach, the Falcon's made use of local manufacturing to resupply themselves.

So really, use what you want, it can pretty much be justified.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 20 September 2016, 19:08:59
Going to ask this here. I have been working on a variant of the Eyrie for some time now and have finally settled on what I am doing with it. This will be made for extended operations needing no resupply. Replace all weapons with and extra jump jet, 5 er medium lasers and a targeting computer. Now for the actual question what would you suggest for the model, 2 of the 5 lasers are going in the arms? I was thinking of using what I have on hand that looks like the right size (Vulture resculpt arms). I just cant make up my mind what to do with this.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 September 2016, 19:15:43
Put two lasers in each arm. That way, with torso twist, you can get 360 degree coverage, which is really helpful in a bouncing jumper.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 20 September 2016, 20:13:06
I should have said 2 in each arm i tossed the other in the head just for fun. Just wondering what you guys think would fit the falcon way of building mechs to represent these arms on the actual model.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 20 September 2016, 21:21:21
You could do the simple thing, cut one of the missile ports off the existing arm and paint them as lasers.

Or you could cut off one port, and fix a laser tip on the remaining two ports.

I tend not to hold with enormously long medium lasers, but there's nothing stopping you using Mad Dog arms ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 21 September 2016, 08:33:35
If you go with twin lasers in each arm, Winston tank turrets might be a decent replacement for the standard arms.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 21 September 2016, 17:38:30
Honestly, I'd go with a bunch of Smalls.  Three ER Smalls in each arm, two SPLs in each torso.  But then, that's because I'm lazy and it'd still match the mini. ;)

Then I'd add a Bloodhound, and a half ton of Cargo ala the Wulfen Prime for 'extended operations'.  A single MechWarrior can function for a long time in the field with 345 kg of rations (for "quarters" on a spacecraft, it's 5 kg per person per day.  Since a 'Mech can be exited, and there's no need to recycle air or water [see rest of list], that should work for a few months' worth), 105 kg of spare parts (three months), a portable water purifier, and some scout equipment.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 September 2016, 19:25:00
I've long assumed that Mechs on a long march or patrol carried such supplies and personal effects externally, leaving it all at a campsite before entering a combat zone. Kinda like the external racks on a tank, but in this case taking the form of a mech-sized fanny pack.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 21 September 2016, 19:34:20
I was operating more under the premise of being able to pick up and go in seconds.  With externally mounted equipment, it'd be difficult (especially a 'Mech without hands ;) ) to break camp and not lose... well, just about anything.

That, and 'Mechs with cargo are cool. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 September 2016, 20:35:27
Oh, I'll give you that. A mech with an enclosed cargo bin would be able to move through water or other icky environments without worrying about damaging the camping gear. Definitely useful on long patrols when you don't know when the weather will turn to crap.

I wonder what the cubic volume of a half-ton bay is. In truly bad weather, it might be big enough to cram your sleeping bag instead of sleeping outside.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 21 September 2016, 20:37:02
I wager its roughly the size of a modern shipping pallet.  I know I could fit 500 kg onto a wood pallet pretty easy.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 21 September 2016, 23:27:28
I wonder what the cubic volume of a half-ton bay is. In truly bad weather, it might be big enough to cram your sleeping bag instead of sleeping outside.
It's at least 494,000cm^3, because that's the requisite volume for 500 kilos of quality beer.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 21 September 2016, 23:40:25
Doesn't allow for packaging, so you'd need a fluid gun ammo crit to carry that ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 22 September 2016, 02:58:04
 ... starting to sound like a formidable defense against Roman's Mounted Fusiliers.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: RaiderRed on 22 September 2016, 21:54:31
The main reason I built this is I just don't like ATM's that much and the ER mediums are great to use while manuvering in to DFA range.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 03 October 2016, 01:44:07
Was trying to solve a little mystery and think I might have a plausible theory ...

Onager-->Shrike
Flamberge-->Jade Hawk
Shadow Cat II-->Gyrfalcon
Night Hawk?-->Eyrie
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 03 October 2016, 08:42:41
Was trying to solve a little mystery and think I might have a plausible theory ...

Onager-->Shrike
Flamberge-->Jade Hawk
Shadow Cat II-->Gyrfalcon
Night Hawk?-->Eyrie

This one? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Night_Hawk (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Night_Hawk)

I mean, art-wise there's some resemblance. In terms of role they're not even close, but I guess if you put wings on a Night Hawk there's some possibility there. Intriguing.

The Gyrfalcon though? If you want to know what the Gyrfalcon's granddaddy is, look no further:

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/a/a6/3025_Rifleman.jpg/442px-3025_Rifleman.jpg.png)

(ahhhh, it feels good to post those again)

Large lasers and autocannons paired in the arms to make for a nasty long-range AA unit? You betcha. But where the Rifleman had slow movement, the Gyrfalcon is quick and even can jump a surprising distance- which means it's a MOBILE platform that can reach out 25+ hexes to make life miserable. It's the evolution of an old favorite, and I couldn't be more in love with the design. Curious where you got Shadow Cat II out of it though.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 03 October 2016, 09:26:09
Personally, I think the Eyrie was an attempt to fix the Erinyes. It was clearly successful, but I imagine that playing a documentary about the Reaving era was a powerful motivator.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 03 October 2016, 09:36:54
Personally, I think the Eyrie was an attempt to fix the Erinyes. It was clearly successful, but I imagine that playing a documentary about the Reaving era was a powerful motivator.

"Make it not suck! How? Why are you asking ME, YOU are the scientist, just DO it. Advice? Er... make it have real wings! And get rid of the stupid face! Can we get lasers on there? And talons! Ooooooh, ATM racks would be sweet! And cupholders for the cockpit! A cockpit, we should have one of those too! And- yes, I know it's only a couple of tons, MAKE IT WORK SURAT. Ugh, fine, bump it a bit in size, what do I care. Hey, can we get jump jets? And spinners for the knee joints? Stop looking at me like that, you get paid the same amount whether you like me or not. Heh, get it? Because you're basically slave labor? I kill me... anyway, WHY ARE YOU NOT WORKING?"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 03 October 2016, 15:15:15
The funniest part of the Rifleman -> Gyrfalcon comparison is that the Gyrfalcon is also like 50% tougher thanks to its Reflective armor.  Literally better in every single way.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 03 October 2016, 15:19:51
The funniest part of the Rifleman -> Gyrfalcon comparison is that the Gyrfalcon is also like 50% tougher thanks to its Reflective armor.  Literally better in every single way.

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m35hosfU9h1r4t9h1o2_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 12 October 2016, 09:57:56
Megamek game last night while watching SHIELD, Jade Falcon medium Star vs. company of FedSuns forces... Black Lanner C had two kills. One was thanks to a lucky headshot on a Rifleman, but the other... lost control on concrete (needing a 4 I rolled a 2), skidded a disturbing distance before smashing into a Dervish, which then was displaced into water and breached its center torso.

It might not be one for the pilot's highlight reel, but a kill is a kill.  ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 19 November 2016, 19:34:46
Was it ever said when/how the Jade Falcons recaptured Blackjack from the Steel Vipers between '52 and '57?

EDIT: actually between '52 and '54, looking at Objective Raids.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 06 December 2016, 16:00:40
How would you guys allocate DropShips to transport a standard Falcon Cluster (3050)?

Assuming:
1 x Command 'Mech Star
3 x 'Mech Trinary
1 x Elemental Trinary
1 x Fighter Trinary
50 'Mechs, 75 Elementals, 30 Fighters

JFSB roughly gives two Overlords and a Union per Cluster - but I think Clan equipment has been more fleshed out since 1992 and was wondering what you guys thought.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 06 December 2016, 16:14:49
That's... not what I'd really call a standard Falcon Cluster.  Going through the Jade Falcon sourcebook (which is admittedly 3052), we see:

Turkina Keshik has a Command 'Mech Star, 3 'Mech Trinaries, an Elemental Trinary, and a Fighter Trinary.
The Falcon Guards has a Command 'Mech Star, 3 'Mech Trinaries, and 3 Trinaries consisting of a Nova and two Elemental Stars each.
The 3rd Falcon Talons has a Command 'Mech Star, 2 'Mech Trinaries, 2 Nova/Elemental Trinaries, and a Fighter Trinary
The 7th Falcon Regulars has the same as the 3rd Falcon Talons
The 9th Talon cluster has a Command 'Mech Star, 3 'Mech Trinaries, a Nova/Elemental Trinary, and a Fighter Trinary

I think your 'standard' is about two Trinaries short, though you came up with the right number of 'Mechs somehow. ???  A Trinary is only 15, remember.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 06 December 2016, 16:30:28
Just for strategic mobility reasons, I'd say go Broadsword, Sassanid, Titan, trip Union-Cs. You can run it off of a couple of Invaders or Tramps, or a Star Lord.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 06 December 2016, 17:02:02
I think your 'standard' is about two Trinaries short ...

Yep, typo on the 'Mech Trinaries. Should be '3'.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 06 December 2016, 18:15:13
Given the era, that's it - all Omnimechs, all ride-on Elementals, no vees.

Clan Warriors do not need petty luxuries like toilet paper or logistical trails, after all, quiaff?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 06 December 2016, 18:51:01
I'd say that the typical Cluster from Tukayyid was heavier on 'Mechs than just three Trinaries and a Command Star.  Most of the Elemental Trinaries also had a Nova as their lead element, which increases the number of 'Mechs by 5-10.  Call it an even 60 for a 'typical' one with one Supernova.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 06 December 2016, 20:00:55
Just for strategic mobility reasons, I'd say go Broadsword, Sassanid, Titan, trip Union-Cs. You can run it off of a couple of Invaders or Tramps, or a Star Lord.

UGH!

Drop those ugly Jumpers and think Clan!

A pair of Star League-era Tramp are the proper jumpers for this unit, along with the Broadsword, Sassanid, Titan C and a Overlord C. Not to mention the twin paired Small Craft they carry!

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 06 December 2016, 20:49:18
One problem is that a Cluster is an insanely flexible term; off the top of my head the smallest I can think of is a command start, one OmniMech trinary and one Supernova. The largest I can think of is 15 non-specific Trinaries, although that unit was almost never in one place at one time. The invasion-era Falcons seem to be reasonably consistent in their cluster sizes, however.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 07 December 2016, 03:03:20
The Clans just don't have alot of options, without going back to the Star League designs, or modifying the various DropShips.

If I was worried about docking collars, I'd go with an Overlord-C, a Sassinid, a Clan Titan and a Broadsword. If I wanted a bit more flexibility, I'd probably swap out the Overlord-C for 2 Union-Cs and 4 Broadswords.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 07 December 2016, 03:28:34
The Sassinid entry indicates the Falcons don't have a lot of that particular ship - so I imagine the implication there is that the Falcon versions of their Unions/Overlords have 'Mech bays converted to Elemental areas?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 07 December 2016, 04:11:34
Nope, they just put Omni-style handgrips and power points on the outside.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Maelwys on 07 December 2016, 13:36:32
The Sassinid entry indicates the Falcons don't have a lot of that particular ship - so I imagine the implication there is that the Falcon versions of their Unions/Overlords have 'Mech bays converted to Elemental areas?

Actually it says that they, along with Clan Wolf, "possess the fewest." That doesn't say anything about the absolute number. The Jaguars could have 80 of them, the other clans 75 and the Wolves and Falcons 70 each, and still "possess the fewest," but still have enough for their Touman. Especially since the design dates back to 2875.

But yeah. Modifications take place among the Clans. The Outpost entry in 3067 notes that the Horses convert their Union-Cs and Overlord-Cs on a case-by-case basis, so there's no reason to believe that the Falcons don't do the same, though their slightly more regimented approach to Cluster creation would limit somewhat how much conversion is needed.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 07 December 2016, 15:27:35
I also suppose it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think of a lot of those Unions described in JFSB were actually Sassinids... seeing as a) FASA hadn't invented it yet and b) perhaps ComStar didn't recognize them as a different vessel at that early stage.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Darthhorse on 07 January 2017, 01:40:52
Just going to pop in and ask if any of my Falcon brothers remember me? Last time I posted on the Battletech forums they had a different forum and they have moved since... =)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 07 January 2017, 04:53:07
I also suppose it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think of a lot of those Unions described in JFSB were actually Sassinids... seeing as a) FASA hadn't invented it yet and b) perhaps ComStar didn't recognize them as a different vessel at that early stage.

Or they could just use the cargo bays.
BA (or any other specialist bay) offer faster egress and superior repair options  but that is about it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 07 January 2017, 13:34:02
Was skimming through "Lost Destiny" "Lethal Heritage" a little while ago and came across something pertinent:

Comstar observing the Falcons on Twycross -
The Primus herself answered his question. "One ship is believed to hold what they refer to as a Cluster—approximately forty-five—of their front-line 'Mechs. The ship itself appears to be built along the lines of a modified Overlord Class DropShip. The other ship looks like an Intruder Class DropShip and is home to approximately seventy-five of their armored infantry."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 12 January 2017, 18:17:11
Was just trying to get my head straight on all the happenings in the Wars of Reaving show as it pertained to the Falcons. If anyone can help me out with a more specific date or a big-ticket item I missed, let me know.



3069

?? ????
On Marshall, the 2nd Falcon Velites use artillery in a trial against the Viper Fusiliers.

05 November
During a Grand Council, Clan Steel Viper's vote of censure on the Falcon's artillery use is soundly defeated.
During a Grand Council, Clan Steel Viper's motion to brand the Jade Falcons 'dezgra' and that they should be expelled from the homeworlds is defeated.

?? November
Steel Viper Alpha Galaxy invades Ironhold. 12th Falcon Talon and Zeta Solahma defeated by mid December.

?? ????
Steel Viper Beta Galaxy invades Marshall and destroys the 2nd Falcon Velites.
Steel Viper Gamma Galaxy invades Eden and defeats the 1st Falcon Dragoons and 3rd Falcon Velites.
Steel Viper 93rd Assault Cluster invades Huntress and destroys the 3rd Falcon Dragoons.
Steel Viper invades Tokasha (Sigma Solahma garrison).
Steel Viper invades Gatekeeper (53rd Battle Cluster garrison).
Steel Viper invades Barcella (109th Striker Cluster garrison).
Steel Viper invades Glory (2nd Falcon Dragoons garrison).



3070

?? January
Steel Viper Triasch Keshik invades the Falcon enclave on Strana Mechty and destroys the 3rd Battle Cluster.

?? February
Steel Viper Alpha Galaxy invades Lum and destroys the 74th Battle Cluster, removing the last Jade Falcon Enclave in the homeworlds except for Strana Mechty.



3071

?? June
Clan Ice Hellion invades the Jade Falcon Occupation Zone.

?? December
The remaining members of Clan Jade Falcon leave Strana Mechty and the Homeworlds.



3072

?? April
Clan Ice Hellion's invasion force ceases to exist.

?? April
Warriors of Chistu and Mattlov bloodlines suddenly effected by a mysterious malady.

?? May
Severe viral outbreak on Wotan causes system to be placed under quarantine.
HPGs on five Jade Falcon worlds go offline. Several JumpShips along the Periphery suffer a variety of failures.

?? June
Waldorff, Parakoila assaulted by Society forces.

10 June
Etienne issues ultimatum to Khan Marthe Pryde to surrender the Clan to the scientist caste.

18 June
Kael Pershaw and elements of Alpha Galaxy arrive at Waldorff.

30 June
Society force on Waldorff destroyed.

?? June
Hawk Eye destroys New Kent and the Society force on Parakoila from orbit.

?? September
Clan Jade Falcon's Trial of Annihilation of Clan scientists begins.



3073

?? ????
Scientists won from Clan Wolf begin work on Jade Falcon programs.

?? January
Network virus attacks Jade Falcon communications networks.

?? March
95% of Falcon HPG network is downed. Over 33% of Falcon merchant caste fleet shut down.

?? April
Scientists won from Clan Hells Horses arrive and begin work.

?? June
Planetary Command Centre destroyed in a chemical blast. Society spreads word that Denizli is a safe haven.

?? November
Clan Jade Falcon locates Ettienne's hidden base.

?? December
Alpha Galaxy, Falcon's Nest, Hawk Eye, and Turkina's Pryde arrives at Ettienne's Sanctuary and destroys every trace of the Society found on the planet.



3074

01 January
Sixty percent of Jade Falcon Trueborn scientists Annihilated.

?? September
Khan Pryde (and Keshik?), Alpha and Gamma Galaxies arrive at Denizli and order all inhabitants to report to designated safe zones for verification.

01 October
Falcon forces assault suspected Society strongholds. Systematic razing of all cities on Denizli begins.



3075

17 February
Grand Council declares the Jade Falcons, along with Ghost Bears, Snow Ravens and Diamond Sharks, as Abjured Clans.

18 February
During Council of Six Clans, Marthe Pryde's motion for the six Inner Sphere Clans to forswear any further contact with the Homeworld Clans is carried.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 February 2017, 10:17:59
So my wife gave me a Titanium Series First Order Stormtrooper Transport for Valentine's, and while I have no interest in it as a Star Wars bit, it is of a good size to use in Battletech, and might look good in green. What's a good orbit-to-surface assault shuttle the Falcons might use for rapid deployment of Elementals?

(Canon designs only, of course)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 15 February 2017, 15:38:23
Lupus. Wolf Dragoons design. Other than that. iDK.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 15 February 2017, 16:05:08
So my wife gave me a Titanium Series First Order Stormtrooper Transport for Valentine's, and while I have no interest in it as a Star Wars bit, it is of a good size to use in Battletech, and might look good in green. What's a good orbit-to-surface assault shuttle the Falcons might use for rapid deployment of Elementals?

(Canon designs only, of course)

Mark VII IIC (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mark_VII_Landing_Craft#Variants) is something that shouldn't exist yet it is canonical.  You could fly over a battlefield with one of those and make it rain Elementals.  Or even land and do it the boring way where they storm out on foot as the loading door drops.

There's the NL-42 "Battle Taxi" too.  Spheroid rather than aerodyne hull type, so I don't know which design fits the aesthetic of the model better.  It's got a (canonically rumored) clan-spec variant used by Wolf's Dragoons too called the Lupus (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/NL-42_%22Battle_Taxi%22#Variants).  From the perspective of the Inner Sphere it might be unique to the Wolf's Dragoons, but how many such units are really just general Clan units?  I'd imagine every Clan operating power armored marines (if such a thing is even distinguishable among the Clans from Battle Armored ground troops) would possess some sort of Battle Taxi for boarding ops.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 February 2017, 16:24:46
Well, the advantage of a mini that doesn't really look like any of those classes is that I can use it as one class of shuttle in one game, and a different class in the next. O0

I've used the Mark VII-C to good success(anything that can deliver a Star of battle armor to the field even while being intercepted by an Ostrogoth is automatically on my good side), but when I want to actually land my shuttles, I think I'll go with the K-1C. It's much tougher than the Mark VII-C, and two K-1Cs are still cheaper than three Battle Taxis for delivering troops directly to the field while still having some room in the bay for either a point or two of LZ-defense infantry, or cargo for bringing back isorla.

It's a shame that none of the small craft in the newer TROs really look like they would fit the bill.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jj.kelley.ptk@gmail.com on 24 February 2017, 00:14:36
Jade Falcon Forever!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 05 March 2017, 06:27:26
Hello Falcons. I'm considering building freebirth, second line binary for a filth. Let them have at least some fun, too. Did any Clan had particular favourite 'Mechs from IIC series? Beside Hunchback. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 05 March 2017, 14:19:40
As with everything - it depends on the year - but generally the Jade Falcons had plenty of

 - Griffin IIc
 - Hunchback IIc
 - "Galahad IIc" (Glass Spider)
 - Rifleman IIc
 - Warhammer IIc
 - Marauder IIc

You'd easily find Locust IIc, Shadow Hawk IIc and  "Wolverine IIc" (Conjurer) around as well.

-----

As of the 3080s, the Falcons produce:
Locust IIc
Rifleman IIc
Thunderbolt IIc (deployed for protoype/evaluation purposes and doesn't appear to have gained much traction)
Marauder IIc

They also bought the following from the Sharks:
Griffin IIc
Shadow Hawk IIc
Phoenix Hawk IIc
Warhammer IIc
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 05 March 2017, 14:29:29
The Rifleman IIC and Battlemaster are in production on Pandora, and you can probably bet that the Beemers are C variants, which are nasty enough to be front line Clan Assaults if they were Omnis.  It's armed with a HAG-30 (4 tons ammo), 4x MPL, 2x ER ML, a Targeting Computer for all those, and an ATM 6 (3 tons amo).  It's 100% ClanTech, too, so the XL Engine doesn't even hurt much.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 05 March 2017, 16:31:27
Thanks.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 05 March 2017, 16:32:10
I also want to add that any of the original Invasion Clans would have as well:

Marauder-3R(c)
Warhammer-6R(c)
Archer-2R(c)
Atlas-7D(c)
Champion C
Clint IIC
Great Wrym
Firefly C
Falcon-4N-PP2 ( Exodus variant, not clan tech but hey you wanted Freebirth... )
Wyvern IIC
Commando IIC
Griffin IIC
Highlander IIC
Hoplite C
Horned Owl
Jenner IIC

And so on...
TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 05 March 2017, 17:12:48
Forgetting not the mighty UrbanMech IIC ...

(http://i.imgur.com/wvAS3i0.png)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SeeM on 06 March 2017, 15:14:00
Forgetting not the mighty UrbanMech IIC ...
Bets anyone?
http://wstaw.org/m/2017/03/03/urbie_troll.jpg
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 08 March 2017, 11:53:31
As of the 3080s, the Falcons produce:
Locust IIc
Rifleman IIc
Thunderbolt IIc (deployed for protoype/evaluation purposes and doesn't appear to have gained much traction)
Marauder IIc


Plus the Thunderbolt IIC 2.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Achtung Minen! on 18 March 2017, 11:32:22
Falcons! The voices from the Remembrance call to us!

What is the state of the Jade Falcon vision and philosophy after 3081? I realize the material and political state of the Clan... they had been halted at Tukayyid, caught up in pointless infighting with Clan Wolf and Diamond Shark in the interim period, humiliated by the failures of the lesser clans during the Great Refusal and Operation Bulldog and denied coming any closer than the moon to the jewel Terra during the Jihad.

Materially, the Clan is depleted to the point that any major operations are impossible. Politically, they have been able to keep their slice on the Inner Sphere and settle in to running those worlds.

But the Crusader philosophy and the great vision of the ancestors in the Remembrance seems to have hit an insurmountable obstacle. The entire raison d'être of invading the Inner Sphere was to take back that which rightfully belongs to us... that shining jewel Terra. So how has this vision and creed evolved with the historical events since 3050? Have the Falcons been forced to reinterpret their scriptures? Did they start to accept "Terra" as being a metaphor for simply returning to the Inner Sphere more generally? Most invasion clans have disintegrated and reintegrated into the Inner Sphere (Ghost Bear, Wolf in Exile, Goliath Scorpion, Snow Raven, Nova Cat)... they mix bloodlines with freebirth and share power, taking up their customs and forgetting the Way of the Clans. The disappointments of the Clan Invasion have been so destructive and demoralizing that these Clans completely lost any reason to continue existing in the traditional, corporate way, and they have evolved and diffused into their host cultures and societies.

In truth, only Jade Falcon remain on the pure path... but what does it mean now that the original goal is beyond reach?

For the sake of the argument, let's leave out the 3145 Jade Falcon situation and Malvina Hazen (I am not sure that she really is a revival of the Crusader mission, anyway... she champions "win at any cost" but lacks the spiritual foundations of the Crusader way).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 23 March 2017, 06:56:06
Jade Falcon Forever!

Selyah !
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 23 March 2017, 07:07:29
Falcons! The voices from the Remembrance call to us!

What is the state of the Jade Falcon vision and philosophy after 3081? I realize the material and political state of the Clan... they had been halted at Tukayyid, caught up in pointless infighting with Clan Wolf and Diamond Shark in the interim period, humiliated by the failures of the lesser clans during the Great Refusal and Operation Bulldog and denied coming any closer than the moon to the jewel Terra during the Jihad.

Materially, the Clan is depleted to the point that any major operations are impossible. Politically, they have been able to keep their slice on the Inner Sphere and settle in to running those worlds.

But the Crusader philosophy and the great vision of the ancestors in the Remembrance seems to have hit an insurmountable obstacle. The entire raison d'être of invading the Inner Sphere was to take back that which rightfully belongs to us... that shining jewel Terra. So how has this vision and creed evolved with the historical events since 3050? Have the Falcons been forced to reinterpret their scriptures? Did they start to accept "Terra" as being a metaphor for simply returning to the Inner Sphere more generally? Most invasion clans have disintegrated and reintegrated into the Inner Sphere (Ghost Bear, Wolf in Exile, Goliath Scorpion, Snow Raven, Nova Cat)... they mix bloodlines with freebirth and share power, taking up their customs and forgetting the Way of the Clans. The disappointments of the Clan Invasion have been so destructive and demoralizing that these Clans completely lost any reason to continue existing in the traditional, corporate way, and they have evolved and diffused into their host cultures and societies.

In truth, only Jade Falcon remain on the pure path... but what does it mean now that the original goal is beyond reach?

For the sake of the argument, let's leave out the 3145 Jade Falcon situation and Malvina Hazen (I am not sure that she really is a revival of the Crusader mission, anyway... she champions "win at any cost" but lacks the spiritual foundations of the Crusader way).

OOC: Looking at the (end) Classic era 3080 AD, my two cents is that "Terra" is a metaphor now, and the Way of the Clans, is the key now, developing and enriching base Clan Society, centering around new permanent "dominions" in the Inner Sphere, not merely a "Occupation Zone" (more like, for the Falcons to fully move in, so to speak) keep the Eugenics Programme in its entirety, but also integrate conquered worlds populations to be contributing to society, just do not change the government like the bears, then anything Clan, slowing starts to get diluted and will wither away
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Achtung Minen! on 23 March 2017, 12:18:23
OOC: Looking at the (end) Classic era 3080 AD, my two cents is that "Terra" is a metaphor now, and the Way of the Clans, is the key now, developing and enriching base Clan Society, centering around new permanent "dominions" in the Inner Sphere, not merely a "Occupation Zone" (more like, for the Falcons to fully move in, so to speak) keep the Eugenics Programme in its entirety, but also integrate conquered worlds populations to be contributing to society, just do not change the government like the bears, then anything Clan, slowing starts to get diluted and will wither away

I'm not sure how the OZ is referred to in the fiction in 3080, but the CGL field manuals and era digests and era reports still refer to the Jade Falcon corridor as an "occupation zone." I'm not sure the Falcons ever gave up on the idea of Operation Revival. Practical things put active invasion on hold, of course, but I think Falcons are the best at being pragmatic in the short term without ultimately losing sight of their greater ideological vision in the long term.

You know, the more I read about Malvina the more I am coming to change my view of her. I am starting to believe that she actually epitomizes the true Way of the Clans. Lets think about it:

1) The true purpose of Operation Revival and the Crusader doctrine isn't "reintegrating into Inner Sphere life." If that were true, then the Great Father Kerensky would have made a mistake leaving the Inner Sphere in the first place (which is impossible).

2) Aleksandr Kerensky's vision was to return when the Inner Sphere had grown tired of its immature wars of petty politics and factionalism and was in need of a grand, ideological program for social unity and progress. Kerensky wanted to keep the pure, simple idea of the Star League intact (that humanity prospers when we overcome our differences), so that someone could reintroduce it when the time was right. Kerensky did not trust politics and knew that the military could never be allowed to be subservient to the machinations of politicians interested only in advancing their petty agendas (something which led to perpetual conflict, destruction and societal regression).

3) After the Exodus Civil War, Nicholas Kerensky developed his father's vision of a scientific, progressive society. He broke the back of factionalism by removing the hurdles of nationality, race and culture. Nicholas knew factionalism was irrational and only supported the schemes of the politicians who could exploit it for power and wealth. To dismantle this, he divided all of the resources in his socialist utopia among Clans (non-ethnic or nationalist "teams" that resolved differences through ritualised games of combat and competition). These rituals allowed the struggling exiles to avoid wasting resources, matériel and lives when making decisions and resolving disputes. And the Clans weren't natural groups of belonging... you were born into a Clan, but you might be captured and reintegrated into another Clan as Abtakha just as easily (thus curbing the human tendency towards tribalism). Nicholas knew that humanity always devolved into communities of difference, and so he filtered that tendency through the highly ritualised and fluid bondaries of Clan culture, thus ablating the most divisive and destructive excesses inherent in the unresolvable sociological problem of difference.

Malvina is admittedly a bit crazy, but her doctrine largely doesn't contradict these essential ideas. For Kerensky, society should be ruled by military commanders, whose approach to governance is more administrative than executive or autocratic. Military commanders are simply civil servants, on the payroll like everyone else, who are not subject to corruption and autocratic impulses because (unlike politicians) they have nothing to gain from this. Power is spread out, just as resources are, among the large branches of military staff, and a system is in place to rise within the ranks.

And military leaders best know the costs of war. Sure, Malvina has committed an atrocity or two, but can we really say that the Periphery or the Rim Worlds Republic viewed General Kerensky any differently when he brutally suppressed rebellions there? In fact, her doctrine goes to the very heart of the Remembrance... if we think of Elizabeth Hazen at the DeChavilier Massacre, Falcons are taught that we must win at any cost when survival itself is at stake.

Looking at the corruption of the other Clans who have lost their vision and their Way, the Falcons alone recognize that the success of the Crusade is itself a matter of survival or extinction. Either Kerensky was right or he was wrong, and since we know the latter is impossible, then there is only one thing left to do.

There is a minor point to be made about how Malvina has abandoned Zellbringen and bidding etc. These practices were developed in a time of great scarcity during the Exodus. They are not a central aspect of Clan creed... rather, they were historically necessary to survive in the brutal conditions of the Pentagon Worlds and the Kerensky Cluster. Sure, dropping an entire Warship on her opponents is "wasteful," but with the manufacturing centers and resources of the Occupation Zone, these aspects of the Clan vision are less important. The main objective of Clan society is to establish a progressive, scientifically-planned society that banishes factionalism, nationalism and politics so that humanity can once again progress as one in a new Golden Era. This core principle remains unchanged under Malvina's doctrine.

tl;dr: So, basically, Falcon harder. I said HARDER!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 24 March 2017, 08:04:59
Excellent observation, but I think it's more on the Mongol Doctrine than on Malvina.  I'm actually a supporter of the idea of the Mongol Doctrine since, "Surrender or we'll hurt you so badly that you'll wish you surrendered and maybe the next guy will surrender," is an idea that even the simplest Spheroid can understand. 

However, we get the reader's view into her innermost thoughts, so we know that she's an omnicidal maniac who is just using the Falcons towards her own goals.  I don't see that ending well for the Jade Falcons, with the Clan either destroyed or neutered. 


   
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 24 March 2017, 08:54:16
However, we get the reader's view into her innermost thoughts, so we know that she's an omnicidal maniac who is just using the Falcons towards her own goals.  I don't see that ending well for the Jade Falcons, with the Clan either destroyed or neutered. 

Or suffering yet another internal conflict to remove her.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 24 March 2017, 09:27:09
Or suffering yet another internal conflict to remove her.

I'd wager on this being the most likely outcome, particularly with the Horses loyal to her having come to their senses and leaving. That said, with the death of Bec Malthus and the isolation of Noritomo Helmar, I'm not entirely sure who would be able to challenge her within the Falcon Clan at this point... I suspect the trope of "the only thing that can stop her is the unstoppable Alaric Ward" looms large.

Which, to be fair, artist's impression:

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/d5gwoii9dwkywgjmkjjs.gif)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 24 March 2017, 09:43:00
Or suffering yet another internal conflict...

We shall call this one... "Tuesday".
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 24 March 2017, 13:36:24
I'm thinking that Malvina's not-so-little-any-more "pet" is going to play a part in her downfall.  It'll be interesting to see if she(I forget the kid's name) plays an active roll, or just ends up being a pawn in someone else's game.  I'm hoping it's the first option.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 24 March 2017, 14:17:40
I proposed an ending for Malvina many moons ago at a developers session. No idea if that's still in consideration or not....
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 24 March 2017, 15:06:44
I proposed an ending for Malvina many moons ago at a developers session. No idea if that's still in consideration or not....

"...as she gasped her final breath into the pillow held over her face, Malvina's final thought was that the pillow smelled faintly of the same aftershave Victor Steiner-Davion was known to wear..."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 13 April 2017, 16:43:37
This seems like the right place to ask. What does the 3145 Turkina Keshik look like on a Star-type breakdown? I'm imagining plenty of Shrikes, Jade Hawks, Gyrfalcons, and Eyries, with the rest of the BattleMechs consisting of various modern OmniMechs to give the Elementals a ride.

For example, I can see an Assault Star consisting of three Shrikes and two Loki IIs.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 13 April 2017, 16:57:49
According to FM:3145 Turkina Keshik is 100% Omni, same for the Raptor Keshik (Malvina's command Keshik). Those are the only two Keshiks in the Clan, but the Clusters of the Galaxy Commanders of Gamma, Epsilon, and Delta Galaxies are also 100% Omni. The rest are half or less Omni, Vau 43%, Zeta 50%, Omega 42%, Kappa 15%, Rho 25%, Iota 20%, and Lambda is Omni-less.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 13 April 2017, 17:21:41
According to FM:3145 Turkina Keshik is 100% Omni, same for the Raptor Keshik (Malvina's command Keshik). Those are the only two Keshiks in the Clan, but the Clusters of the Galaxy Commanders of Gamma, Epsilon, and Delta Galaxies are also 100% Omni. The rest are half or less Omni, Vau 43%, Zeta 50%, Omega 42%, Kappa 15%, Rho 25%, Iota 20%, and Lambda is Omni-less.

Wow, really? All this time I thought she was riding a Shrike 3, but that's incompatible with those figures. How many of those Omnis did the Falcons buy from the Sea Foxes?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 14 April 2017, 07:25:31
Wow, really? All this time I thought she was riding a Shrike 3, but that's incompatible with those figures. How many of those Omnis did the Falcons buy from the Sea Foxes?
Malvina herself may be piloting a Shrike, with the rest of the unit in Omnis. No idea how many omnis needed to be bought/traded for, but they also likely have some that are leftovers or salvage from combat with other Clans. And in this era of scarcity, most Clans seem to be hording their Omnis in their premier units. Just because a non-omni is a good design doesn't mean that stereotypical Clan warrior doesn't want an Omni. It just means he or she will be less pissed off to not have an Omni.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 14 April 2017, 09:42:11
Malvina herself may be piloting a Shrike, with the rest of the unit in Omnis. No idea how many omnis needed to be bought/traded for, but they also likely have some that are leftovers or salvage from combat with other Clans. And in this era of scarcity, most Clans seem to be hording their Omnis in their premier units. Just because a non-omni is a good design doesn't mean that stereotypical Clan warrior doesn't want an Omni. It just means he or she will be less pissed off to not have an Omni.

That Malvina, just gotta be a Special Snowflake. Oh well, at least she'd be easy to spot, piloting the only BattleMech in the unit, just right for some artillery strikes...  >:D

Also, I remembered what my original question was, and realized it was somewhat vague. I had asked for a breakdown of unit types. What I meant by that was more along the lines of "How many Trinaries consist of 'Mechs, whether standard or Omni? How many are ASFs or Omnifighters? How many Elemental Stars?"

While I originally asked this about the 3145 Turkina Keshik, I would also like to know the same about this Raptor Keshik (that I don't remember ever hearing about before, but my Falcon lore isn't the best).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 14 April 2017, 11:13:57
I'm searching some, not finding a ton about tactical setup. Although if you want more background info on the Raptor Keshik, they're called out in Era Report 3145. It's not a lot, but better than nothing.

I'll check later, but I think the MWDA novels have some info on it as well.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 14 April 2017, 14:43:10
That seems unlikely, that the Keshik wouldn't use ANY of the new 'totem' designs at least. I'd bet on that being incorrect, but I'll have to check when I get home and see if there's any mention other than Malvina of Eyries and such serving in Keshik roles.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 April 2017, 15:12:52
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 14 April 2017, 15:36:01
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"

FM: 3145.

I'd say your thinking is along the right lines. The RATs for the Falcon 'Keshik/Command' units most often have the totem battlemechs as top billing.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 14 April 2017, 16:10:22
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"

Bingo. Omni or not, same as with the older totems, if your Goliath Scorpion pilot is offered the chance to drive a Fire Scorpion instead of his current ride, no matter what it may be, he'll do two things.

1) Get higher than an aerospace fighter

2) Take that less-than-optimal quad and run it until his death. It's not a great Mech, but it's the very spirit of his Clan.

No way the Falcons treat their quartet of winged weirdos any different.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 14 April 2017, 19:57:51
Especially since most of their totem units are great 'Mechs.

Increasingly, "Omni %" strikes me as a terrible way to describe a unit in general, let alone as an expression of quality of equipment.  Equipment Ratings A/B/C/D/etc. with different RAT mods for each strikes me as a much better way of handling it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 14 April 2017, 21:04:31
When were those percentages published? Potentially before the developers put out the Falcon totem line.

Given the prestige involved, I'd be prepared to head-canon treating the totem designs as equivalent to omnis for that purpose. "Look, you can have this old Mad Dog, or this Gyrfalcon. What do you want?"

"Neither.  I challenge that Star Commander for his Grand Summoner.  Also, the Khan is out of uniform and should be severely punished as per regulations."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 15 April 2017, 08:56:26
That seems unlikely, that the Keshik wouldn't use ANY of the new 'totem' designs at least. I'd bet on that being incorrect, but I'll have to check when I get home and see if there's any mention other than Malvina of Eyries and such serving in Keshik roles.
Well, one of the notable pilots for the Eyrie, Lyza Helmar, is said to be a part of the Raptor Keshik. 

Of course if she still wants an Omni with a melee weapon, there's the Karhu Prime, Karhu C, Turkina U, or Turkina X. Retractable Blades on the Karhus and Talons on the Turkinas.


Perhaps a better way would be to refer to the unit ratings, which coincidentally fall next to the Omni % in FM:3145. Obviously, it lists both the Raptor and Turkina Keshiks as using the Keshik tables. Looking at the Falcon RATs, that means the Keshiks could have any of the following non-OmniMechs: Spirit 2, Eyrie, Sun Cobra, Black Hawk (non-omni),Gyrfalcon, Mad Cat Mk IV PR2, Shadow Cat II 2, Tundra Wolf, Jupiter, Mad Cat Mk II Enhanced, Shrike, Shrike 2, Jupiter 4, Cygnus, or Hellstar.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 18 April 2017, 23:39:25
Speaking of Malvina, do we have a TRO for her customized Shrike, or is it one of the canonized variants?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 19 April 2017, 00:04:33
Shrike 3
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Terrace on 19 April 2017, 00:09:18
Shrike 3

Thanks. I figured it was, but I couldn't remember where I had read that, and didn't want to assume. I'm actually working up a roster for the Raptor Keshik for my own use, and that helps a bunch.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 22 April 2017, 02:42:45
So how is the fiction coming of CJF post 3145 ? I am looking for any data, no matter how small, or even a summarised update from members on how my beloved Clan is going, and up to date official IS map would be good. Also how are sourcebooks coming ?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 22 April 2017, 05:27:17
I just had a look at the Shrike 3 and ye gods that thing is a terrifying heat hog.  Even if you add 4 tons of heatsinks its a monster, 54 heat before moving if you look at the alpha button  from the energy weapons alone. 

You'd think that Malvina would choose a more efficient weapon mix rather than the 3 which just slaps a pair of ER Peepers on and sets the atmosphere on fire if you press the big red Alpha button.  But then again this is Malvina Hazen we're talking about here.  The word 'balanced' or 'efficient' or 'sane' most certinally need not apply.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Øystein on 22 April 2017, 05:36:35
Especially since most of their totem units are great 'Mechs.

Increasingly, "Omni %" strikes me as a terrible way to describe a unit in general, let alone as an expression of quality of equipment.  Equipment Ratings A/B/C/D/etc. with different RAT mods for each strikes me as a much better way of handling it.

Omni % hails from when Omnis were the kings of the battlefield. Part of that fact is due to being able to reconfigure your mech due to battlefield conditions. (Remember that Omni reconfiguration goes way beyond the stock models, they are just the most regular used models which pods are preconfigured for).
Planning a long campaign where resupply might be hard? Change to energy weapons only.
Extra hot planet? Change to heat-efficicient weapons.
Cold planet? Pack some extra lasers (as Phelan did in Bred for War) to exploit the extra cooling.
Urban assault? Pack short range heavy hitting weapons.
Sniping trip? Reconfigure for long range weaponry.

And so forth.

While a standard Mech might be better individually in a normal short fight - how does it stand up for a various prolonged campaigns in differing conditions and situations?

But face it - being able to reuse the same Omni models over and over doesn't sell TROs which is why you get totem mechs... Even if Clan doctrine is built around the Omni... But try telling marketing people that. :P

Øystein
Who came up with those %s along with TPTB.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 22 April 2017, 06:04:48
Omni-flexibility comes at a cost though. More a logistical one as if you want to have various configs for the world you're dropping on its more cargo space taken up and most DropShips have pathetic amounts of cargo.  And then its a case of "Okay do we pack a gauss rifle for the battle on the plains we want to fight...or do we pack some ammo for the AC-20's for the city we'll need to fight in.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Øystein on 22 April 2017, 06:46:55
Omni-flexibility comes at a cost though. More a logistical one as if you want to have various configs for the world you're dropping on its more cargo space taken up and most DropShips have pathetic amounts of cargo.  And then its a case of "Okay do we pack a gauss rifle for the battle on the plains we want to fight...or do we pack some ammo for the AC-20's for the city we'll need to fight in.

Yes, but that should already be figured in with the Clan organisations and their transport assets (there is a reason these have never been codified) and as such already factored in.

Look at how Phelan Ward - while being on the run during the CJF/CW War in 3057-58, was able to reconfigure several Galaxies to pure energy weapons for the assault on the CJF forces on a arctic world. Which means he had the supplies with him as part of the regular Galaxy transport makeup.

Øystein
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 22 April 2017, 15:20:19
So how is the fiction coming of CJF post 3145 ? I am looking for any data, no matter how small, or even a summarised update from members on how my beloved Clan is going, and up to date official IS map would be good. Also how are sourcebooks coming ?

Lucky i noticed this, i actually compiled time line for post-3145 based on what TRO3150 reveals us.
Not much stuff in there really, they're basically just teasers.

I'll copy Falcon-related stuff here:
EDIT Note, i paraphrased stuff from the TRO. I just wanted an overview for myself.

3146
-February: Jade Falcons raid Ludwigshafen.
-September: Jade Falcons assault Ark-Royal. Fall of Ark-Royal.

3148
-Resistance against Jade Falcon occupiers across Donegal Province.
-Early: Jade Falcons attack Coventry, the Battle of Coventry.

Unknown year
-Nineteenth Battle of Hesperus II. (Unless this refers to the battle covered in DA novels and Field Manual 3145 ?? Someone please correct me.)
-Hell's Horses Operation NOYAN, assault on New Oslo. (Including this because the Hell's Horses are Falcon allies... partially anyway.)

Aand that's it, for what TRO3150 contains about Falcons, unless i missed something.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 22 April 2017, 15:59:49
Pretty sure there's more stuff. I know about one for sure, the Falcons salvaged a Quadvee (I forget which one, but it wasn't a Harpagos or Arion), but the conversion equipment was damaged and the Falcons couldn't repair it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 22 April 2017, 16:31:52
Huh. I must've missed that. But then i was looking for dates and bigger events, not "trivia" per se.

Also, i used both TRO3150 and XTRO Republic III as sources, though i think all CJF stuff was from TRO3150. The only works dated after 3145 currently, i think?

EDIT Duh, i forgot First Succession War. Gotta read the introduction carefully... Eh, nothing of value except confirming that the Fortress Republic is up until early 3150 at least.

EDIT One more tidbit:
Arion second pilot entry notes something about "Falcon reprisal raids". It seems the Horse-Falcon alliance has fallen apart?
EDIT Yes, "Rising tensions between those Clans".

EDIT Found the salvaged QuadVee (Boreas) thing. It seems the Falcons and Horses clashed on Leskovik during Horses' Operation NOYAN.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 23 April 2017, 21:23:56
Omni % hails from when Omnis were the kings of the battlefield. Part of that fact is due to being able to reconfigure your mech due to battlefield conditions. (Remember that Omni reconfiguration goes way beyond the stock models, they are just the most regular used models which pods are preconfigured for).
Planning a long campaign where resupply might be hard? Change to energy weapons only.
Extra hot planet? Change to heat-efficicient weapons.
Cold planet? Pack some extra lasers (as Phelan did in Bred for War) to exploit the extra cooling.
Urban assault? Pack short range heavy hitting weapons.
Sniping trip? Reconfigure for long range weaponry.

And so forth.

While a standard Mech might be better individually in a normal short fight - how does it stand up for a various prolonged campaigns in differing conditions and situations?

But face it - being able to reuse the same Omni models over and over doesn't sell TROs which is why you get totem mechs... Even if Clan doctrine is built around the Omni... But try telling marketing people that. :P

Øystein
Who came up with those %s along with TPTB.

It worked back then.  It (demonstrably) doesn't work now, and should be replaced with something that doesn't contradict itself.  That was my entire point.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 24 April 2017, 15:04:47
I just had a look at the Shrike 3 and ye gods that thing is a terrifying heat hog.  Even if you add 4 tons of heatsinks its a monster, 54 heat before moving if you look at the alpha button  from the energy weapons alone. 

You'd think that Malvina would choose a more efficient weapon mix rather than the 3 which just slaps a pair of ER Peepers on and sets the atmosphere on fire if you press the big red Alpha button.  But then again this is Malvina Hazen we're talking about here.  The word 'balanced' or 'efficient' or 'sane' most certinally need not apply.

I was surprised as well- the novels gave me the impression she had medium lasers in the shoulder mounts, not larges, which means saving a lot of weight for heat sinks if you go that route and makes for a pretty good Mech (basically base it off the Shrike 2 rather than the 1). That it has the larges ruins what could otherwise be a good Mech- it can't use the long-range energy weapon battery together, which means you'll likely never use the lasers, so why bother having them to begin with?

VERY disappointed in that one. The standard Shrike is kind of fun, the 2 is okay, and the 3 is just shy of unusable.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 24 April 2017, 15:45:56
Shrike 3 looks scary good in Alpha Strike. 7 Damage on a long range overheat, with a 10" jump for the recover turn after a blaze...  Put it in a Fire Star or give it the Range Master: Long SPA and it'd scare the hell out of me if I had to face it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 24 April 2017, 15:54:55
I was surprised as well- the novels gave me the impression she had medium lasers in the shoulder mounts, not larges, which means saving a lot of weight for heat sinks if you go that route and makes for a pretty good Mech (basically base it off the Shrike 2 rather than the 1). That it has the larges ruins what could otherwise be a good Mech- it can't use the long-range energy weapon battery together, which means you'll likely never use the lasers, so why bother having them to begin with?

VERY disappointed in that one. The standard Shrike is kind of fun, the 2 is okay, and the 3 is just shy of unusable.
I vaguely remember thinking she started with the UAC/10 version as well (Shrike 2) and then she just went with ERPPCs when the arm got whacked off at one point in the novels. The only problem is if you just pack in the heat sinks you end up without any crit space, but 4 free tons. You could dump that into armoring various components, at least that doesn't need extra crit space.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 24 April 2017, 19:35:47
I vaguely remember thinking she started with the UAC/10 version as well (Shrike 2) and then she just went with ERPPCs when the arm got whacked off at one point in the novels. The only problem is if you just pack in the heat sinks you end up without any crit space, but 4 free tons. You could dump that into armoring various components, at least that doesn't need extra crit space.

Yeah in Flight of the Falcon it looks like Black Rose is a Shrike 2.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 25 April 2017, 08:33:03
How about this then to make a more sane Black Rose.  Replace the top ER Larges with a pair of ER Meds (4 in total) and then bung the rest into heatsinks.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 April 2017, 09:01:58
I vaguely remember thinking she started with the UAC/10 version as well (Shrike 2) and then she just went with ERPPCs when the arm got whacked off at one point in the novels. The only problem is if you just pack in the heat sinks you end up without any crit space, but 4 free tons. You could dump that into armoring various components, at least that doesn't need extra crit space.

Hmmm. Four tons... tempted to play with IJJs, combined with the partial wing though I'm not sure how that works out. I like the armored component idea though- as often as Black Rose takes a pummeling, a bit of extra protection on important bits like the gyro and noodle aren't bad ideas.

*sigh* Malvina, man... setting up the Clan for annihilation AND her Mech sucks. Screw you, lady.  ;D

(I'll post it later in the design forum, but some tinkering with the Shrike 1 saw the Ultras go out in favor of a Gauss rifle, the LRM for a couple of SRM racks, a flamer added, etc., and to my surprise it became an Executioner Prime With Added Scariness. It's a blast- I may never use another assault Mech. ;) )
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Archangel on 25 April 2017, 16:58:01
Yes, but that should already be figured in with the Clan organisations and their transport assets (there is a reason these have never been codified) and as such already factored in.

Look at how Phelan Ward - while being on the run during the CJF/CW War in 3057-58, was able to reconfigure several Galaxies to pure energy weapons for the assault on the CJF forces on a arctic world. Which means he had the supplies with him as part of the regular Galaxy transport makeup.

Øystein

Maybe yes, maybe no.  First, all the galaxies participating were reorganized prior to the Trial so regular doesn't really apply (Phelan took Natasha's Alpha Galaxy including her 13th Wolf Guards and Ulric's Golden Keshik which was expanded to a full Cluster, etc).  Second, the timetable of Ulric's plan didn't leave room for the Wolves to take time off to get resupplied from the Wolf OZ after each battle.  And third, Ulric's plan was for Phelan's forces to eventually make a break for the Lyran border and go into permanent exile which would cut him off from getting reliable supply shipments from the Homeworlds so it makes sense that he would bring more supplies than 'normal'. 

The only additional supplies they were able to bring is what the Potemkin-class Full Moon would be bringing (along with everything else it was transporting from the Homeworlds-lower caste, sibkos, a copy of the Clans' genetic legacies, etc).  It wouldn't be until 3061 that the Exiled Wolves would be able to start manufacturing new Clan-tech after capturing manufacturing equipment from the Ghost Bears on Utrecht in late 3060 (It takes time to get back and set up so I reckon 3061 at best).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 26 April 2017, 08:04:26
Hmmm. Four tons... tempted to play with IJJs, combined with the partial wing though I'm not sure how that works out. I like the armored component idea though- as often as Black Rose takes a pummeling, a bit of extra protection on important bits like the gyro and noodle aren't bad ideas.

*sigh* Malvina, man... setting up the Clan for annihilation AND her Mech sucks. Screw you, lady.  ;D

(I'll post it later in the design forum, but some tinkering with the Shrike 1 saw the Ultras go out in favor of a Gauss rifle, the LRM for a couple of SRM racks, a flamer added, etc., and to my surprise it became an Executioner Prime With Added Scariness. It's a blast- I may never use another assault Mech. ;) )
Unfortunately if you try to go with IJJ, to get a useful number of them (6) is gonna cost you 16 tons (8 to switch from JJ to IJJ, and 8 for the two extra ones). Granted at that point you've got twin ERPPCs, twin ERMLs, and an LRM10 jumping 7 hexes in a 95-tonner, but you had to ditch the UAC-10s, ammo, and targeting computer to get there. And you only sink 25 heat.

Personally, if you want ERPPCs, just stick with adding Laser HS to full and armoring components. If you want the 7 hex jump go with LPLs instead of ERPPCs to be able to fire more weapons.


Maybe yes, maybe no.  First, all the galaxies participating were reorganized prior to the Trial so regular doesn't really apply (Phelan took Natasha's Alpha Galaxy including her 13th Wolf Guards and Ulric's Golden Keshik which was expanded to a full Cluster, etc).  Second, the timetable of Ulric's plan didn't leave room for the Wolves to take time off to get resupplied from the Wolf OZ after each battle.  And third, Ulric's plan was for Phelan's forces to eventually make a break for the Lyran border and go into permanent exile which would cut him off from getting reliable supply shipments from the Homeworlds so it makes sense that he would bring more supplies than 'normal'. 

The only additional supplies they were able to bring is what the Potemkin-class Full Moon would be bringing (along with everything else it was transporting from the Homeworlds-lower caste, sibkos, a copy of the Clans' genetic legacies, etc).  It wouldn't be until 3061 that the Exiled Wolves would be able to start manufacturing new Clan-tech after capturing manufacturing equipment from the Ghost Bears on Utrecht in late 3060 (It takes time to get back and set up so I reckon 3061 at best).
What Øystein is saying is that if you know you're going to fighting on planet X, you take enough supplies to fight effectively in any terrain there, or be prepared to fight in sub-optimal conditions. If that means taking an extra supply dropship or two, you plan that before even departing so you have what you need.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Diplominator on 02 June 2017, 00:08:17
The best ERPPC Shrike I've been able to come up with replaced the ERLLs with Plasma Cannons. Maybe the LRMs as well; it's been a while since I've looked at it.

It ended up being a little more capable against conventional units, which is something the Shrike always had an issue with. Plus, setting fires to give Falcon BA cover is always fun.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 16 June 2017, 10:17:47
The best ERPPC Shrike I've been able to come up with replaced the ERLLs with Plasma Cannons. Maybe the LRMs as well; it's been a while since I've looked at it.

It ended up being a little more capable against conventional units, which is something the Shrike always had an issue with. Plus, setting fires to give Falcon BA cover is always fun.

Meh. Infantry and vehicles. Beneath the attention of a glorious Shrike driver anyway. Let the battle armor clean them up- or keep a Loki II-B around if you need to mop up quickly (if perhaps with a bit more zeal than tact...) ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 June 2017, 11:46:22
Tact? We are Falcons! For us, tact is shooting someone and scorning their corpse, as opposed to scorning then and then shooting them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 16 June 2017, 11:51:39
Tact? We are Falcons! For us, tact is shooting someone and scorning their corpse, as opposed to scorning then and then shooting them.

One will agree that a Long Tom round is certainly one way to scorn a whole lot of people at the same time.  ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 June 2017, 13:56:44
AE scorn?

Good lord, the Falcons have rediscovered the internet! :o
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 16 June 2017, 14:31:18
AE scorn?

Good lord, the Falcons have rediscovered the internet! :o

"Lulz. N00bs. Get gud."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 June 2017, 14:51:28
At least we don't have to worry about them going on Twitter. No true Falcon can type out "SCREEE!!!" and keep it under 140 characters.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 16 June 2017, 15:05:51
At least we don't have to worry about them going on Twitter. No true Falcon can type out "SCREEE!!!" and keep it under 140 characters.

"Bloody 'ell, their batchall takes longer t' spit oot than th' battle, it does! Just hollerin' and screechin' and carryin' on, the vat-bred bahstads. So we did, we tolds 'em wot they could do with their bloody 'Turkina'... then they dropped a couple of 'em right on our 'eads, like pancakes wit' legs they was, and those of us not waitin' in line to see St. Peter aren't laughin' no more."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 17 June 2017, 00:01:07
"Does the mighty Jade Falcon come so far to trial for mere supplies?  Is your Clan so bereft that you are reduced to this?  Perhaps you should harvest the valuable feathers of your totem, Falcon 'warrior.'  Go pluck yourselves."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 18 June 2017, 21:10:47
"ANS Kamas P81, I found your challenge verbose. In challenging a Jade Falcon, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 18 June 2017, 21:22:55
" I needs more feathers for my Pillow. " ~ a Freebirth Sea Fox Commando

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 19 June 2017, 00:40:12
LOL worktroll, I don't think Clan Rat Cat exists.  But it should.  Actually the line was a quote from FGC 63, when I was playing for the Scorpions - CJF came to trial for a whole ton of stuff against a little outpost, like....they wanted a factory, mech cluster, and half the planet with something like a full galaxy for the trial when it was basically a 1FP 'this is my territory' garrison.  I decided it was too UnClanlike in its wastefulness, and advised the JF commander of an alternate means to provide the resources they needed :D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 19 June 2017, 00:53:25
Smoke Jaguars make a useful proxy for Kzinti O0
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 19 June 2017, 01:26:05
Smoke Jaguars make a useful proxy for Kzinti O0
I stand entirely and pleasantly corrected.  Damn, now I need a Jag unit.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 19 June 2017, 01:56:31
Oh I got one for you....

Sunder R
Avatar R
Raptor R
Atlas C
Warhamer C

Enjoy!

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 January 2018, 18:44:58
At least we don't have to worry about them going on Twitter. No true Falcon can type out "SCREEE!!!" and keep it under 140 characters.

That is ok we have 280 to play with now  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 09 January 2018, 00:34:17
Now we just need to find some taciturn Falcons. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 09 January 2018, 04:38:42
Now we just need to find some taciturn Falcons. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/9uuB1WY.png)

You rang?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 09 January 2018, 09:55:09
Now we just need to find some taciturn Falcons. :)

"Taciturn? We are Jade Falcon- we cannot even SPELL that."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 09 January 2018, 11:21:23
"Taciturn? We are Jade Falcon- we cannot even SPELL that."

Who needs to spell when you can count? #clanbankers
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 09 January 2018, 11:26:53
Who needs to spell when you can count? #clanbankers

"...yeah, we should work on learning that better, too. All the old learning guides we have are from the Smoke Jaguars, and it mostly teaches how to tally up casualty statistics."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 09 January 2018, 13:04:10
"...yeah, we should work on learning that better, too. All the old learning guides we have are from the Smoke Jaguars, and it mostly teaches how to tally up casualty statistics."

I always thought you guys learned how to count from the owl in the tootsiepop commercial. How many scientists does it take to get to the center of a society? *bang* one *bang* two *explosion* Three!!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 09 January 2018, 14:14:27
I always thought you guys learned how to count from the owl in the tootsiepop commercial. How many scientists does it take to get to the center of a society? *bang* one *bang* two *explosion* Three!!

Works for counting how much ammo is in a Thor configuration too. *BANG* "One!" *BANG* "Ah-two!" *CLICK* "****** !"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 09 January 2018, 21:28:26
Spelling is for scientists and other stupid freebirths!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 10 January 2018, 02:32:14
Well, have successfully completed a proof of concept for Epsilon Galaxy scheme.

The Grand Plan includes a Cluster: 1st Falcon Jagers
- Trinary (Omnis, Second-Lines, and BA)
- Binary (heavy vees, recon vees)
- Trinary (two Stars of BA, star of transport vehicles)

Mix of metal and plastic. As there is no longer any spare space on my shelves, they'll no doubt have to Trial for room ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 10 January 2018, 06:57:56
Well, have successfully completed a proof of concept for Epsilon Galaxy scheme.

The Grand Plan includes a Cluster: 1st Falcon Jagers
- Trinary (Omnis, Second-Lines, and BA)
- Binary (heavy vees, recon vees)
- Trinary (two Stars of BA, star of transport vehicles)

Mix of metal and plastic. As there is no longer any spare space on my shelves, they'll no doubt have to Trial for room ...

Pics when you're done or it didn't really happen.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Iron Wolf on 11 January 2018, 20:11:30
I am behind on the lore and just now getting caught up. Was it ever revealed who or what killed Marthe Pryde?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 12 January 2018, 01:16:21
I am behind on the lore and just now getting caught up. Was it ever revealed who or what killed Marthe Pryde?

Check out Wars of Reaving. The bombers allegedly had ties to Loki.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 12 January 2018, 09:55:51
Check out Wars of Reaving. The bombers allegedly had ties to Loki.

Which, it's important to note, is a reference to the terrorist organization and NOT to the Omnimech, though both are known to cause unfortunate and messy explosions when Jade Falcon commanders least want to see them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 12 January 2018, 10:12:27
Which, it's important to note, is a reference to the terrorist organization and NOT to the Omnimech, though both are known to cause unfortunate and messy explosions when Jade Falcon commanders least want to see them.

 So..the mall food court?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 12 January 2018, 11:46:19
So..the mall food court?

"SAVASHRI! My food is cold! I declare a Trial of Grievance against this 'Panda Express'. With what forces will you defend?"

"Ah... well... er... orange chicken?"

"Fool, I have heard this epithet a thousand times. And it's supposed to be GREEN chicken. Prepare yourself."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 12 January 2018, 12:54:23
"SAVASHRI! My food is cold! I declare a Trial of Grievance against this 'Panda Express'. With what forces will you defend?"

"Ah... well... er... orange chicken?"

"Fool, I have heard this epithet a thousand times. And it's supposed to be GREEN chicken. Prepare yourself."

You know the battles.gonna end once the jade falcon sees his ex that he dated in the sibko ;). Only time you've seen a jade falcon move that fast is when that warship came crashing down.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 January 2018, 15:12:03
Pics when you're done or it didn't really happen.

The problem is stopping me from posting pics, quiaff?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 12 January 2018, 15:17:25
The problem is stopping me from posting pics, quiaff?

Aff...unless this is reversed psychology and you WANT me to stop you...with force..in a trial..and i aint talking night  court!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 12 January 2018, 15:57:28
Nope. Got to finish my Heavy Hell Raisers & post them, then Falcon Power!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 12 January 2018, 16:37:00
Nope. Got to finish my Heavy Hell Raisers & post them, then Falcon Power!

YOU, sir, need to get your priorities in order.

Jade Falcons First! (We'll annihilate the other Clans later)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 January 2018, 17:43:31
And remember, nine out of ten Clan Warriors think that Jade Falcon Green is the best colour for a 'Mech

(The tenth said 'quit wasting my time with your inane questions, stupid freebirth')
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 12 January 2018, 23:25:35
I managed to get a little Falcon painting in today!  Nothing terribly significant, just base coats on a quartet of relatively newly acquired minis.  A Locust IIC, Snow Fox, Cauldron-Born, and Shrike.  They'll end up in Zeta Galaxy colors, when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 15 January 2018, 01:55:22
Which, it's important to note, is a reference to the terrorist organization and NOT to the Omnimech, though both are known to cause unfortunate and messy explosions when Jade Falcon commanders least want to see them.

Would've been ironic had Marthe Pryde been piloting a Hellbringer when she was assassinated.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 15 January 2018, 15:42:13
Watching local Science Channel yesterday, shows called What on Earth?.

Episode had a strange tower next to another tower, which turned out to be a shallow depression. Which turns out to be a human bone pit buried. Practice called for the deceased to be eaten on the tower by carrion birds, average 30 mins or so by several to be picked clean.

Why am I typing this you ask?

Its called a Sky burial. Somewhat akin to slamming a Combat Jumpship into a planet to wipe out your enemies. ( Practice was abandon about 50 or so years ago... lasted since 1000 or so. )

Just make sure you I am IlKhan! as you do it, otherwise who would challenge you?  >:D

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 15 January 2018, 16:07:59
I do not see how you equate the two here, but YMMV.

Fun fact, the Mongols were amongst those that practiced sky burials.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 15 January 2018, 16:14:51
Clan Jade Falcon crashing a Warship unto a Planet.

Falcon is a Carrion Bird...

Sky Burial is a rite of being eaten ( crashed warship ) by a ( Jade ) Falcon.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 15 January 2018, 16:23:50
Hmm, as I understand it, falcons are primarily hunters, not carrion-eaters. Eagles or ravens, sure, but not falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 28 February 2018, 12:36:39
So I'm trying to build a force for my group's usual 6k free-for-all. My first deal is that I want to run a pair of Turk-Es, because I designed the frigging things, it's about time I use them. Unfortunately, this only leaves 2310 BV for my ground forces, likely a single mech. So I need a lone mech that can survive on a battlefield against multiple greatly superior enemy forces.

My thinking is a mech that can avoid getting surrounded, either by being very maneuverable or staying at range, or both. Missile racks would be handy for popping smoke, to limit the number of units that can shoot at me at the same time. Any thoughts?

So far, my ideas include the Masakari B(a little over BV, but close enough), Thor B or AA, Loki E, Vulture F, Night Gyr B, Black Lanner Prime or A, Shadow Cat A, or Flamberge Prime.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 February 2018, 13:21:59
Flamberge Prime or Night Gyr B, for the flavour.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 February 2018, 15:38:36
I'm always in favor of the Flamberge.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 28 February 2018, 16:24:46
Paired Kit Fox E or a mix of E and S?

Might be able to fudge the piloting to squeeze in a Point or two of cheap BA?

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 28 February 2018, 16:38:35
No piloting adjustments in my group. You pay the base BV, then to speed things up everything on the table gets boosted to 3/4 for free.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 28 February 2018, 17:09:58
Try these then...

Three Emerald Harrier, three Procyon 3 and an Erinyes 2... with 5 BV points left.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 February 2018, 21:58:39
I'm always in favor of the Flamberge.

Yeah, but you're biased ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 01 March 2018, 03:10:28
Hmmm... A salvaged Gotterdammerung and Schildkrote goes over the BV limit, but you could grab one instead of both. The Onager is also over the limit.

But if you want maneuverability instead of brick wall, the Rifleman C 2 is under the BV limit. Have never used it, so no clue how effective it actually is.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 March 2018, 09:44:49
Man, why doesn't the Thunderbolt IIC 2 have BV? That would take forever to kill....
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 01 March 2018, 10:25:19
Because most of this force consists of front-line OmniFighters, and Jade Falcons are a prickly lot, I'm sticking to front-line units for this. After all, if we aren't irritatingly particular about whatever detail is stuck in our minds at the moment, then we're no better than the Wolves. :)

Of the suggestions so far, I'm liking the Flamberge Prime the most. It's got the maneuverability to avoid the worst trouble, the durability to survive the trouble that catches it, all-range firepower to make its own trouble, and standard missile racks for the laying of smoke and fart jokes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 01 March 2018, 21:24:33
Gyrfalcon 3.  :D

Totem 'Mechs should totally be allowed even if it's "front line" only.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 01 March 2018, 21:41:34
Oh, absolutely. After all, making exceptions to the rules Because I Said So is the very soul of the Falcon. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 01 March 2018, 22:30:21
Indeed.  The Gyrfalcon 3 is my actual suggestion, by the way.  It has "mobility" covered in a way very few things could ever hope to, and it comes in just over 2200 BV.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 14 April 2018, 10:19:59
This might be old news, but last night I learned what a shrike is(aside from the mech).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrike
Quote
Shrikes are known for their habit of catching insects and small vertebrates and impaling their bodies on thorns, the spikes on barbed-wire fences, or any available sharp point. This helps them to tear the flesh into smaller, more conveniently-sized fragments, and serves as a cache so that the shrike can return to the uneaten portions at a later time. This same behaviour of impaling insects serves as an adaptation to eating the toxic lubber grasshopper, Romalea microptera. The bird waits for 1–2 days for the toxins within the grasshopper to degrade, then they can eat it.

Shrikes are territorial, and these territories are defended from other pairs. In migratory species a breeding territory is defended in the breeding grounds and a smaller feeding territory is established during migration and in the wintering grounds. Where several species of shrike exist together, competition for territories can be intense.

Shrikes make regular use of exposed perch sites, where they adopt a conspicuous upright stance. These sites are used in order to watch for prey items and to advertise their presence to rivals.


Is it too late to rename the clan?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 24 April 2018, 15:56:27
I've been away from CBT for about four years. Anything happen in the meantime to my beloved CJF?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 24 April 2018, 17:12:04
I've been away from CBT for about four years. Anything happen in the meantime to my beloved CJF?

Well... we tried taking Tharkad. It didn't go great. But 'A' for effort.

Also we have new Mechs, outside of the bird-shaped totem designs from Dark Age. The Loki II in particular is made of fluffy warmth and happy- if you aren't in a hurry to go anywhere, that just became the JF assault Mech of choice. It's not assault by WEIGHT, but in use it's to be used alongside Warhawks and Turkinas. (The B-config in particular has become a favorite)

Ah, what else... Malvina has been getting rid of people opposed to her, nothing new there... really we've been as quiet as Falcons ever are, other than the Tharkad push (which they were late for by mere hours behind the Wolves).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 24 April 2018, 18:49:50
I want to add that Slowki Prime is a fantastic pocket assault. But you'll never use it because Slowki B is far less efficient but infinitely more hillarious.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 24 April 2018, 19:07:28
I've been away from CBT for about four years. Anything happen in the meantime to my beloved CJF?
Well... we tried taking Tharkad. It didn't go great.
Malvina has been getting rid of people opposed to her, nothing new there...
So. Nothing then. Welp, happy to hear Malvina is still in charge.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 25 April 2018, 08:26:45
To be honest, there hasn't been a lot of timeline advancement in those 4 years period. Overall the timeline has gone from the 3145 era at the end of the MWDA game to 3150. However, there has been a lot of filling in of the gaps and details. If you don't have either of the new TROs 3145 & 3150, those fill in some gaps and there's other sourcebooks that do the rest.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 April 2018, 08:49:51
I want to add that Slowki Prime is a fantastic pocket assault. But you'll never use it because Slowki B is far less efficient but infinitely more hillarious.

Really all three versions are pretty great (the A is kind of the least-known, I suppose, but even that's a nasty customer- twin PPCs and an LB-10X plus some extra spices? Yes plz. But yeah, the Prime is probably the better machine overall from a beatstick perspective, and the B is just... man, it runs warm, and it's kinda goofy, but in the Dark Age- with its higher emphasis on combined-arms warfare- that Long Tom is just hilarious.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Moonsword on 25 April 2018, 09:07:39
I want to add that Slowki Prime is a fantastic pocket assault. But you'll never use it because Slowki B is far less efficient but infinitely more hillarious.

That was more or less the point of that configuration. :D  I didn't really expect to get away with sticking an LTC on a Clan heavy OmniMech.  There's a real point to it beyond "Will they let me do that?", of course - LTCs make BA and infantry die dead really efficiently, plus they're a fantastic way to peel off reflective armor at a reasonable distance and can be a decent answer to high-speed light vehicles and 'Mechs with a little luck.  Great weapon for blowing away bunkers and other fortifications, too.  But mostly it was to see if I could actually get something so borderline-crazy published.

The A is a love letter to the Hellbringer Prime with some Summoner Prime for spice.  Sure, you don't have a dedicated close-in combatant, but anyone who dances with a Hel A up close is going to have three IHMLs (or two of those and an ER PPC), a hail of LB-X pellets, and the APGRs hammering on them, plus whatever damage they took from the ER PPCs and the autocannon closing.  That's going to sting just a little.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 25 April 2018, 09:48:04
I think it says a lot about the mech that a config as amazing as the A tends to fade into the background. Big Boom warms the cockles of my heart just as much as anyone else, but from an objective perspective, I think the A might be the best of the lot. Twin peeps and a ten-gun will never be insufficient long-range firepower for anything smaller than a Poseidon, and then you add the close-in guns and ECM, in a way that makes it equally effective against heavy armor, fast movers, and conventional units alike. I can only guess that Moonsword's thought process here was to add the heavy guns, see he had room left, add some more guns, see he still had room left, added still more guns, still had more room, and what does it take to fill up this freaking thing?!?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 April 2018, 13:36:13
And that's the key to what makes it so scary. It's just cavernous in terms of pod space- I'm not sure I can think of another Omni with this much pod space vs. total weight (maybe the Kit Fox? I'd have to look at my books at home). It's not an assault Mech by weight, again, but in terms of weaponry it handily outguns many assault designs despite giving up twenty tons to those designs. That's no small feat. That it also is remarkably tough to bring down for its size doesn't make life any easier on its opponent- and one can only imagine the reaction this design got from opponents on its first outings. "Shouldn't that Loki have crumbled by now? I shot it with a large laser and the leg stayed on. That's weird... oh, the return fire was ridiculously heavy, NOW it's a Loki."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Moonsword on 25 April 2018, 22:37:19
The Kit Fox has 16 tons on a 30 ton chassis for 53.3%.  The Hel has 40 tons on a 65 ton chassis for 61.5%.  I don't know of anything else that gets up that high and the Hel beats out the various 4/6 XLFE heavies for sheer podspace.  Of course, you pay for it with armor that's relatively thin compared to the other Clan 4/6 XLFE heavies and a small cockpit.

There's more than just raw podspace to consider there, though, and it's worth looking at what I consider the benchmark competitors.  Without an exhaustive search, let's take four other 4/6 XLFE Omnis in the same weight class and speed bracket, including an IS design for cross-comparison, ranked:


Speaking for myself, I think the Night Gyr comes out on top here in general.  Considering it's got 10 tons on the Hel and five tons on the other two, it'd better be.  The DHS come out in the wash against the Hel - it's two tons you won't get back, yeah, but it's also two tons the Hel is almost always going to be mounting anyway.  The jump jets eat up another four tons but the crits are the same crits the Hel is having to use for those two extra DHS.  I'd prefer not having them hard-mounted but overall, for podspace and crits, the Hel has a single crit advantage in practical terms it pays for with the piloting penalty from a small cockpit.  In exchange, you get fewer heat sinks that can get critted out and two more tons of armor, plus jump jets if you like jump jets.  You can fit most Hel loadouts on here if you try hard enough; the A will have to lose a crit somewhere.  Clearly you're never going to get IJJs on here, either.  Mission payload is 44 tons at the end of the day.

The Flamberge and Nova Cat both use standard armor, so they lose some tonnage but gain crits.  The main practical difference between them is the SRMs on the Flamberge.  (There's differences in the armor distribution but that's a little out of scope.)  Mission payload is 39 tons on both of them counting the fixed DHS.  I find the SRMs annoying personally and cut the Flamberge less slack than the Avatar or Night Gyr but opinions may differ.  A Nova Cat can come within spitting distance of a Hel's podloads if thoughtfully outfitted and has more crits to shove the pods into.  Flamberges can do decently for themselves, too, if they lean on the SRMs for short-range damage and have more crits to rely on energy weapons vs. the ballistics a Hel might use.

The Avatar is at the bottom of the heap, although personally I find the design's flaws a lot more tolerable than the Flamberge's SRMs.  Leaving the XLFE size aside, the fixed CASE is useful a lot of the time and while the fixed MLs are not great, they're broadly useful and don't require you to haul along ammunition to use them.  It also illustrates just how much endo-steel and ferro-fibrous buy you - the Hel is packing 39 tons (+1 ton for the cockpit) on a frame 5 tons lighter.  The Avatar has the lowest mission payload at 37 tons, purely because unlike the Clan 'Mechs it doesn't use endo-steel.

The fact that every design I think is a good comparison for the Hel is 5-10 tons heavier says something about the podspace I managed to shoehorn into it.  All of that is specifically to accommodate the Prime configuration's armaments while providing a real Gauss endurance, enough heat sinks to use the guns well, and a reasonable level of armor.  Though I personally think the Night Gyr is a better 'Mech, I'm proud of what I managed to achieve with the Hel.  It's a nasty piece of work for its size.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Moonsword on 25 April 2018, 22:45:59
To move back toward a more Falcon-y topic than that little mini-treatise, what's with the LB-Xs on the Gyrfalcon?  Does that strike anyone else as kind of eccentric?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 26 April 2018, 02:43:30
Anything but. With their range and its mobility, its capacity to skeet-shoot/plink hovers and VTOLs is amazing

That's why it's the world's most annoying thing
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Frogfoot on 26 April 2018, 04:54:52
Eccentric, but in a good way. I think it gives it character. They could easily have gone with 6x cMPL but that's no fun. At least here they're paired with ERLLs too rather than just randomly being there on a knife-fighter. Plink vehicles, critseek for holes the ERLLs have opened up, annoy ASF pilots in duels.

What I also think is eccentric is 3716 BV for the Gyrfalcon 4!  xp
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Moonsword on 26 April 2018, 05:54:52
Okay, I can buy that.  Thoughts on the Jade Hawk?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 26 April 2018, 06:21:45
Remember how some of the IICs took old L1 heavies & made them nastier as mediums? This is the reverse.

If it was a medium, it'd be delightful.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 26 April 2018, 06:47:13
The Jade Hawk's a weird goose, the one with Claws I would expect to be non Clan but still you COULD encounter it and its absurdly specialized and terrifingly fast if you can overheat it (which you have to turn off most of its heatsinks to do) and slap the supercharger too.  At which point it comes hooting, braying and shrieking up to you at Mach 9 before ripping great big gouges out of your armour.

The most 'normal' one is the 2 with a pair of ER large and ER medium and 4 ATM-6's but its lacking all the shiny stuff that makes the Jade Hawk so quirky and is basically a typical Clan heavy cavalry design with a 5/8 movement curve.  The 3 replaces the ER larges with Medium pulse and can jump but thats it, its the same.  The 'standard' or prime version has 4 ER smalls and 4 Streak 6's and can get in your face very quickly, but its very specialized.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Frogfoot on 26 April 2018, 07:41:07
The regular flavour Jade Hawk is a backstabbing dueller. Jump over someone's head, fire everything point blank into the rear arc. You could try sandblasting for lucky TACs too but that's not as good. Jade Hawk 2 isn't a bad all-range slugger, maybe a bit undergunned at long range but those ATMs will hurt a lot up close. It doesn't compare well against Night Gyrs, Hels, etc but as a standard batlemech maybe it's more common in second line forces (though that whole 'front-line omni, second line standard mechs' thing has been a blurry line in the Falcons since the 3060s and even more so in the DA). The Jade Hawk 3 is basically the same story as the base model only harder-hitting and hotter-running. The pulse lasers help it against a similarly mobile opponent.

The TSM-boosted claws on the JHK-03 model look fun but the mech suffers a mobility loss to mount them, and it looks like a pain to get the TSM at the magic 9 anyway. The JHK-04 model would be a good bodyguard in a merc LRM lance, if expensive. Its heavy duty gyro seems sort of random.

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 26 April 2018, 08:43:25
Anything but. With their range and its mobility, its capacity to skeet-shoot/plink hovers and VTOLs is amazing

That's why it's the world's most annoying thing

I touched on this in more detail on my MotW article a couple of years back, but the thing with the ACs here is that they pair up perfectly with the ER large lasers and the Mech's inherent mobility to create a nightmare to deal with. At ranges where most Mechs are able to respond with one or two weapons at best, a Gyrfalcon is lighting you up with all four. That's made even better by its ability to keep pulling back as an enemy advances, holding that range advantage and stripping a target bare while it has little to respond with. Even worse, some of the most effective long range responses- ER large lasers of your own, ER PPCs, etc.- run into a reflective armor problem.

A smartly used Gyrfalcon is what the Rifleman always wanted to be- and it's a lot of fun to use. Those LBX guns are perfect for the job- more accurate than Ultras, not much loss of damage potential, no jamming worries, better AA capabilities, and when the lasers start making holes in the target's armor they can start exploiting that damage. It's an inspired choice here. (Just shut a laser off once in a while to keep heat down)

I've said it before, I will again- I genuinely believe that on a long list of truly great units to come from the Dark Age books, this may be the best of the lot. And it's a distinguished list- this is damned high praise, considering it beats out units like the Tiburon, Juliano, etc.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 April 2018, 10:22:41
I've mostly only used the Gyrfalcon against the MegaMek bot(using it properly against humans is a good way to lose friends), and I can confirm that on a decently sized map, a Gyrfalcon can keep the range open for basically forever.

Regarding the Flamberge's SRMs, I've found them to be VERY good at laying nasty smoke screens. I use them in a game where I was heavily outnumbered, and by cutting off LOS to most of the OPFOR, I was basically able to force a zell fight(or close to it) on an enemy that wasn't inclined towards it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 26 April 2018, 10:38:27
Those SRMs on the Flamberge are a bit weird, for sure, but I'm a big fan of SRMs, so to me it's pre-installing weapons that I'd probably have put in myself anyway. The Clan SRM-6 is really a thing of beauty, when you think about it. On 1.5 tons (plus another for ammo) you're getting a weapon that has great utility, impressive power, and for very little given up in terms of weight and space. The loss of range compared to a Streak is a little 'eh', but the Streak also weighs double and can't use alternate ammo types.

In effect, I gave up five tons of potential pod space for a couple of very useful weapon systems, and while there are times it would be nice to have the space back, overall they're pretty handy to have- even configs that rely on long range fighting tend to be better off with the occasional bit of extra muscle at short range, just in case.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Moonsword on 26 April 2018, 11:53:33
I come down about the same way on the medium lasers on the Avatar.  I can see the point on the Flamberge, too.  It just annoys me more than on the Avatar for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 26 April 2018, 13:06:03
I come down about the same way on the medium lasers on the Avatar.  I can see the point on the Flamberge, too.  It just annoys me more than on the Avatar for whatever reason.

There's worse ideas out there in terms of fixed equipment (I know people beat on the jump jets on the Summoner and Turkina and such too). I actually like the Avatar's lasers- not only is it never bad to have a couple of spare pew-pews to toss at someone, but they make excellent non-explosive crit padding in a location that otherwise doesn't react well to internal hits.  ^-^
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 26 April 2018, 13:12:25
It was Herb's fault. Not sure why the SRMs had to be hard-mounted but I love me some SRMs so I rolled with it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 26 April 2018, 13:16:35
Honestly, my only disappointment with them was the miniature. I think it's a matter of how the original prototype gets 'cooked down' for the molds, but the SRMs up on the wing are really tiny compared to their chest-mounted neighbors. And if you look at the chest launchers, they're differently-shaped juuuuuust enough to trigger my OCD.  :-[
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 26 April 2018, 23:02:36
Of worth to mention: In 3146 the Falcons put Arc-Royal to the torch.  That's a thing that happened.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 26 April 2018, 23:28:11
Of worth to mention: In 3146 the Falcons put Arc-Royal to the torch.  That's a thing that happened.

And there was much rejoicing
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 27 April 2018, 08:59:38
Ohhhhh yeah, forgot about that one. Yeah, didn't wipe the Kell Hounds off the map entirely, but close at least. If you were living on Arc Royal when the Falcons arrived... well, you weren't living when they left.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 27 April 2018, 14:29:03
WHo says we can't have nice things?

Pity they missed the next Empress Davion, but.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 27 April 2018, 15:19:17
WHo says we can't have nice things?

Pity they missed the next Empress Davion, but.

Proof that when you're fumigating bedbugs, you can't let even one survive- nothing good comes from leaving one out of a few thousand around.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 04 May 2018, 17:54:19
Jade Falcon expectations for Operation REVIVAL:

(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/449/326/large/marek-madej-epic-battle.jpg?1422961754)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 04 May 2018, 19:38:22
"Long ago, in a distant Successor State, I, Turkina, the batshit-crazy master of combat, unleashed an unspeakable invasion! But, a foolish colonel, wielding a magic deep-fryer and mustache, stepped forth to oppose me..."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 04 May 2018, 19:48:04
"Long ago, in a distant Successor State, I, Turkina, the batshit-crazy master of combat, unleashed an unspeakable invasion! But, a foolish colonel, wielding a magic deep-fryer and mustache, stepped forth to oppose me..."

(http://www.hungrydads.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/FullSizeRender2.jpg)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: jklantern on 04 May 2018, 20:46:07
A little known fact about Thomas Hogarth is that he's actually the heir to a popular food chain around the Inner Sphere, which contributed to his combat skills.  But only against poultry.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 14 May 2018, 15:08:06
Running a star of frontline veteran 3150 Falcons (Shrike, Gyrfalcon, Jade Hawk, Eyrie, and Flamberge) along with a support Star of artillery, vehicles, and a Loki II-B on Megamek. Opponent is using regular skill IS tech, randomly selected, 1.5 my BV, using plenty of combined arms. It's heinous.

The Loki II-B just dropped a Long Tom shell into a grove of trees that I saw contained a mechanized infantry platoon and a Panther. Suck it! Well... the damage output screen was FOUR SCREENS long for determining what happened- I caught six infantry platoons, two battle armor squads, the Panther, and a Schrek in the blast, killing all but the Schrek (Panther took an ammo crit).

I've been laughing for five minutes straight. The Hel-B just committed a war crime.  ;D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 May 2018, 16:21:46
Running a star of frontline veteran 3150 Falcons (Shrike, Gyrfalcon, Jade Hawk, Eyrie, and Flamberge) along with a support Star of artillery, vehicles, and a Loki II-B on Megamek. Opponent is using regular skill IS tech, randomly selected, 1.5 my BV, using plenty of combined arms. It's heinous.

The Loki II-B just dropped a Long Tom shell into a grove of trees that I saw contained a mechanized infantry platoon and a Panther. Suck it! Well... the damage output screen was FOUR SCREENS long for determining what happened- I caught six infantry platoons, two battle armor squads, the Panther, and a Schrek in the blast, killing all but the Schrek (Panther took an ammo crit).

I've been laughing for five minutes straight. The Hel-B just committed a war crime.  ;D

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCmG9Uq8gEqwu3AoAfDF8nI5_tJ12xuMWN1wC3X89fCoTzzn12PQ)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 May 2018, 14:00:25
Similar to a recent request in the FWL thread, I need names for Jade Falcon ships. In this case, I'm looking at two Odysseys, one Tramp, one Comitatus, and one Hunter JumpShips, and one Miraborg DropShip. Canon would be nice but not required, and if noncanon, serious is definitely not required.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 17 May 2018, 14:04:30
For the Comitatus: "Nefritovyy Sokol"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 May 2018, 14:15:51
I'm convinced. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 17 May 2018, 14:47:08
Don't use the Silver Merlin.

For the Tramp: Paris Hilton.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 17 May 2018, 15:13:48
Hmmmmm... The Miraborg's design history makes me think 'Cat Skinner' would be fun.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 May 2018, 15:22:22
"In Case of Emergency, Break Glass"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 17 May 2018, 16:55:20
Personally, I'd name the Merlin either Mexican Santa or Potatoe
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 18 May 2018, 00:43:26
Gonna go with:
Odyssey - Gastornis
Odyssey - Void Kiwi
Commie - Crimson Crake
Hunter - Saber Auk
Miraborg - Assimilator of Kerensky's Vision (you probably can guess what the motto is on the ship's name plaque)
Tramp - If it's primarily operated by the merchant caste, then the previous naming suggestion would probably be appropriate.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 19 May 2018, 12:25:00
Comitatus~ Bring out yer dead!

Too much, replace yer for your.

TT

EDIT: Just watched ' Don't mess with Zohan! ' So I want to rename the Comitatus to S(c/k)rapp(y/I) (C/K)o(c/k)o. <Scrappy-Scrappi-Skrappy-Skrappi Coco-Coko-Koco-Koko>

I like Skrappi Koco best...
TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 21 May 2018, 10:26:51
Star vs. Star fight yesterday in Fairfax between the Falcons (hello) and Vipers (Paul), using the most disgusting bleeding edge tech we could come up with. When the game had to be called, the Vipers were given hegira- but it was CLOSE.

Vipers:

Scylla 3 (KO)
Warhawk H (KO)
Black Python 1 (badly damaged
Crossbow B (crippled)
Phoenix Hawk IIC-8 (KO)

Falcons:

Shrike 2 (crippled)
Loki II-B (KO)
Turkina Z (KO)
Summoner A (KO)
Gyrfalcon 3 (armor damage only)

We agreed that the two cripples were a wash, and the Python- with an engine hit, two shot out jump jets, etc.- would never be able to bring the Gyrfalcon down with its seven-hex jumping every turn.

Bloody as hell. But the cry of the emerald raptor rings victorious!

Turning point of the game: During a base-contact six-Mech fracas, the mostly-healthy Warhawk caused eventually-fatal damage to the Hel, but the Shrike hit it in the head from directly behind with an Ultra/10 shot AND a medium laser. What had been the centerpiece of the Viper pincer attack ended up instead dying suddenly, surprisingly, and (to our amusement) due to my opponent predicting that after the cannon hit 'no way you do that twice'...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 26 July 2018, 02:19:17
Hypothetical question: do you think the Alpha Galaxy of 3145's time would be in the same colors as their fore bearers in the Jihad (and thus conveniently represented on CSO)?

EDIT: Also,
Turning point of the game: During a base-contact six-Mech fracas, the mostly-healthy Warhawk caused eventually-fatal damage to the Hel, but the Shrike hit it in the head from directly behind with an Ultra/10 shot AND a medium laser. What had been the centerpiece of the Viper pincer attack ended up instead dying suddenly, surprisingly, and (to our amusement) due to my opponent predicting that after the cannon hit 'no way you do that twice'...
I didn't think you were allowed to have that sort of luck...?  ;)  Sounds like a great game, in any event.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 26 July 2018, 22:27:49
Hypothetical question: do you think the Alpha Galaxy of 3145's time would be in the same colors as their fore bearers in the Jihad (and thus conveniently represented on CSO)?

Probably a safe bet. You might try asking Camospecs on FB about it.

We could use an Ask Camospecs thread on the forums here. Was trying to track down schemes for the defunct Phi and Omicron Galaxies.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 30 July 2018, 15:52:02
Actually it's an interesting question, whether any Galaxies (or regiments) have made major updates to their look after the last time we looked in at them in detail in the early 3060s. 90 years is a long time, and units have changed their looks before (Davion BoG, for example)... interesting to wonder what different units look like nowadays. Some probably haven't changed a bit (Sword of Light, for example), but others are a big question mark.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 01 August 2018, 17:39:19
Right?

Something else I recently rediscovered that wouldn't help the case: the remains of the original Alpha Galaxy signed on with the Republic. I really cannot see Falcons resurrecting a Galaxy in the same colors as a unit that acknowledged the superiority of any faction that isn't CJF. The fact that Vau came back gives me some hope, but I'm still really doubtful. I'll follow the earlier advice given and message CSO on FB, I think.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 01 August 2018, 18:17:20
And I doubt those iterations of Alpha Galaxy had a colour scheme that matched Alpha Provisional either.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 01 August 2018, 18:19:05
Which units were the MW:DA units representing? The natty metallic base, with various shades of green trim?

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 01 August 2018, 18:28:30
Good question. It would have to be one of the desant forces that were depicted in MWDA... so reinforced Turkina Keshik/Alpha Galaxy, Delta Galaxy or Zeta Galaxy.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 02 August 2018, 23:50:20
Who is here hanging out, just ready to become ilClan?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 03 August 2018, 00:20:01
Allways
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 04 August 2018, 01:52:18
Who is here hanging out, just ready to become ilClan?

Hanging out? No, it was determined when Elizabeth, Carl, Daniel, and Lisa put it all together.  We have merely been awaiting the acknowledgement we ourselves have always known.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 04 August 2018, 02:12:27
;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 06 August 2018, 20:04:24
Zeta Galaxy's traditional colors are green and gray, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was the scheme being represented with the green/metal.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 07 August 2018, 02:47:26
So any bets on how long before Stephanie Chistu and Noritomo Helmer are the Khan and saKhan?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 August 2018, 05:08:18
So any bets on how long before Stephanie Chistu and Noritomo Helmer are the Khan and saKhan?

Not possible with Noritomo Helmer now. He's a Wolf Empire abtakha.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 07 August 2018, 06:06:45
There's nothing that prevents him from being recaptured by the Falcons further down the line.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 07 August 2018, 14:23:59
We did have clan Jade Wolf briefly ... clan Brown Falcon?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 August 2018, 14:27:34
We did have clan Jade Wolf briefly ... clan Brown Falcon?

Clan Furry Falcon?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 07 August 2018, 19:01:32
Clan Black Falcon any one? What happens when Raven isorla is abtakha as Falcon.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 14 August 2018, 20:06:32
Reading Shattered Fortress seems to suggest that the Falcons got Arc Royal's facotries pretty much intact; there's no mention of their being attacked/destroyed that I can find. Based on that, what toys do you think would be the most fun addtions to the Falcon forces?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 15 August 2018, 14:20:29
I'd have to go with the Ursus II, personally.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 August 2018, 19:03:55
I was thinking that myself. It's a tough little beggar and is surprisingly mobile. The weapons are a bit all over the shop, but that's more of the Ursus legacy.

On another front, while I don't play much Aerotech, the Isegrem looks like it'd be a nice addtion
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 15 August 2018, 19:07:11
No love for the Viking IIC? Or Cuchulainn BA - imagine a Cuchulainn(mixed tech)?

And of course, the Hellstar, perfect ride for all Wolf fanbois ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 August 2018, 22:56:37
Hellstar is Not Nice is already a Clan General 'Mech, though the Falcons controlling one of the lines can't hurt
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 16 August 2018, 04:09:54
No love for the Viking IIC?

Don't get me wrong, I love the Viking IIC more every time I use it, but it's way too slow to be a proper Falcon 'Mech. Maybe if it had jump jets...


Or Cuchulainn BA - imagine a Cuchulainn(mixed tech)?

...isn't the Cuchulainn already mixtech?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 16 August 2018, 10:39:16
Don't get me wrong, I love the Viking IIC more every time I use it, but it's way too slow to be a proper Falcon 'Mech. Maybe if it had jump jets...


...isn't the Cuchulainn already mixtech?

 Using a viking is the same as flag football after a touchdown. Winners walk losers run 😉
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 16 August 2018, 18:34:21
It is too much like artillery. The Falcons will probably make an anti insurgency variant.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 16 August 2018, 18:58:38
Sounds falcon. Nice mech you got there..be a shame if someone designed it for war crimes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 16 August 2018, 22:36:55
Sounds falcon. Nice mech you got there..be a shame if someone designed it for war crimes.

And that's what aBear would say if they lost aTrial against it!  :thumbsup:

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 17 August 2018, 02:07:21
Imagines Trial.

Viking IIC vs Viking IIC.

All ammunition is expended.

Physical attacks initiated.

Both Mechs end up flailing on the ground unable to get up due to their stubby arms.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sharpnel on 23 August 2018, 09:21:38
Just watched a horrible movie called The Package and one of the minor characters was played by an actress named Jade Falcon. No joke, Jade Falcon.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 23 August 2018, 09:47:34
I hope she's not very good. It would honor the Clan for her to show such disdain for a profession that involves lying for the benefit of the lower castes.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sharpnel on 23 August 2018, 13:02:26
I hope she's not very good. It would honor the Clan for her to show such disdain for a profession that involves lying for the benefit of the lower castes.
NOt from what Isaw. She was in the last two minutes or so of the movie and the character was a bubble-headed blonde.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 23 August 2018, 19:00:51
[snip] was a bubble-headed blonde.

Sounds like a horror story come true.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 24 August 2018, 02:52:30

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1310636/
 (https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1310636/)

It gets worse...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 28 August 2018, 07:19:03
NOt from what Isaw. She was in the last two minutes or so of the movie and the character was a bubble-headed blonde.
She's not bad on the eyes:
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm8917058/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t20

Whaddya think? Dye her hair and if she's short enough...appropriate to play Malvina. She can scream her real name out all she wants to her enemies as she slays them.  ;D :))
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: nckestrel on 29 December 2018, 20:43:53
If any Falcons are interested, I posted a Combat Manual Lite for Jade Falcon in the Fan Rules forum. I could really use some JF fans to loom it over.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: E. Icaza on 01 January 2019, 20:31:22
If any Falcons are interested, I posted a Combat Manual Lite for Jade Falcon in the Fan Rules forum. I could really use some JF fans to loom it over.

No Iota?  Although they didn't participate in REVIVAL, IIRC they were deployed to the OZ as garrison forces.  That implies they were a Second-Line Galaxy until the Refusal War at least.   
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: nckestrel on 01 January 2019, 20:53:14
I had all the clusters that were later part of Iota in other galaxies pre Tukkayyid. The 8th Regulars were already in an invasion galaxy. I put the other garrison clusters in home world galaxies (other numbered garrison clusters).
I should put a note like I did for wolf about iota forming later and which clusters loved it it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: nckestrel on 02 January 2019, 16:16:43
Updated the Combat Manual: Invading Clans for the missing Iota and Omnicron Galaxies with lots of notes about how clusters/galaxies shifted around after Tukkayyid.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 11 April 2019, 14:27:50
If any Falcons are interested, I posted a Combat Manual Lite for Jade Falcon in the Fan Rules forum. I could really use some JF fans to loom it over.

Do you have a link? Been looking but couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 23 April 2019, 05:40:47
I've got a bit of an odd question for the board's Falcons: if you had to choose from the 3146 Falcon WarShip fleet a task force that would be able to put up a fight against a McKenna but only barely be able to overcome it, what would you select?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: nckestrel on 23 April 2019, 07:22:55
Do you have a link? Been looking but couldn't find it.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63772.120
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 23 April 2019, 07:23:02
Every Aegis they have and have them do a high speed pass at it from the bow.  Really thats about it, they've got some Aegis left and one Cameron, all are slow and clunky and are close range brawlers compared to the McKenna which is built to fight at long range whilst having some NAC-40's for close range 'deterrence' IE a bubble of come in here and you get crippled.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 23 April 2019, 17:33:11
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63772.120

Cheers fella.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 23 April 2019, 23:05:54
Corollary question: how many WarShips would be reasonable to escort a pair of Falcon Galaxies (one frontline, one secondline) in a planetary assault that is not expected to be contested by anything more than pocket WarShips?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 24 April 2019, 01:27:15
in the current period where the falcons are as subtle as a supernova, they'd probably rock up with an Aegis or two.  Who cares if the opposition you face is 'only' some pocket warships, if you have an advantage, you use it as often as possible.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 05 May 2019, 04:55:13
Tinkering away at making my own pilot cards ... went with Marthe as I built up the initial one. Still a bit of a work in process, but I figured I post where I'm at.

Not sure what to do for the quote. Anyone remember something neato offhand from one of the novels?

(https://i.imgur.com/MsKTKFw.jpg)

Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 05 May 2019, 04:59:25
From Falcon Guard:

"War councils and warriors. The words sound well together, but they do not belong together. Warriors should act, not talk."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 05 May 2019, 21:14:48
"A Wolf with balls.  We Falcons may respect you yet."
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 06 May 2019, 22:05:58
Thanks guys. I went with Kojak's suggestion as I think yours, reb, would more fitting for Vlad's card. :)

Updated the card image above. The Summoner image is greyed out as it's still a secret (https://www.patreon.com/ShimmeringSword) ...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 06 May 2019, 22:40:49
No problem, it's a good Vlad quote, too. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Apocal on 03 June 2019, 13:06:39
Was Joanna's bloodhouse ever mentioned?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 03 June 2019, 16:36:11
Its never been said in canon.

But My guess is she's a Buhalin.  Horse thought Sentania Buhalin looked a little like Joanna, and that observation always stuck with me.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 05 June 2019, 01:32:10
Putting together a RAT (of sorts) for Alpha Galaxy during the Reaving/Jihad period -- was wondering if I missed any 2nd-liners in production at the time.

3064 - Locust IIc
3063 - Spirit

3065 - Pinion

3064 - Rifleman?
3069 - Rifleman IIc

3070 - Marauder IIc
3064 - BattleMaster
3068 - Jupiter
3066 - Bane

Now, I think part of the fun of Alpha in this instance is that almost anything goes;

That busted up Vapour Eagle we got from the Vipers just after Tukayyid? Dump it on Alpha.
That evaluation Mad Cat Mk.II we got from Shark merchants that has never worked properly? Dump it on Alpha.

But was hoping to get a good grasp of what was actually being produced.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 05 June 2019, 17:53:09
So I recently purchased TRO 3145 and the first thing I did was check out the Shrike, Gyrfalcon, and the Eyrie. Now, I'm and old school clanner. I came into BT during the Clan Wars timeframe and not very up to date in this time frame. The first thing that strikes me is that none of these are omnimechs. I would have expected that new flagship designs like this be omnimechs since they are the peak in battlemech technology. Am I the only one to find that odd

But what I would really like to here is how they work in gameplay. Tell me your success stories and tell me your failures. All three appear to favor similar play styles. Highly mobile strike platforms that can sustain combat at range. Are these mechs more challeging to use because of thier distinct capabilities?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 05 June 2019, 23:33:11
Eyries are good skirmishers.  Very good vehicle hunters, with large numbers of small weapons to immobilize and Talons to exploit range 0 physical attacks where vehicles are incapable of responding.  Jump 7 is very hard to hit; use it.

Gyrfalcons are the Rifleman 3N on four kinds of steroids, speed, and cocaine.  They can run or jump for a +4 to hit depending on what you need your attacker mod to be, they have an armament very similar to that of a Rifleman (except obviously Clan, which means your ideal engagement range is 25 hexes not 10), and it has Reflective armor so the usually natural predator of fast jumpy things (pulse lasers) are almost totally useless.

Shrikes are... fast for Assaults (5 hexes).  I personally enjoy the one with the Ultra/10, but the 2 column for clusters is just a little bit too unreliable for the twin Ultra/5 version to be very good.  I love the whole look, but you can make the argument that it's not very good.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 13 June 2019, 18:11:05
Well since the cat's out of the bag in regard to the new Summoner art here (https://bg.battletech.com/news/battletech-clan-invasion-kickstarter-coming-july-17/) ... I figured I'd post my uncensored Marthe fan card.

(https://i.imgur.com/1TI41Hq.jpg)

New quote from Malicious Intent ... even though it was after her Star Colonel days.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Von Jankmon on 04 July 2019, 20:35:22
Was Joanna's bloodhouse ever mentioned?

Probably Conan the Cimmerian and Brunhilde.  With plenty of mead added to the vat
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: BaldDen on 05 July 2019, 17:32:49
Was Joanna's bloodhouse ever mentioned?
Because of her ability to drink, her bloodhouse is probably Buhallin.



Sorry, russian humor due to reading the name Buhallin in russian
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 23 July 2019, 18:08:05
Well, just finished The Anvil. I never gave much time to Clan Jade Falcons (really, to clan at all, i am mostly a Periphery guy), but i really liked the Stephanie Chistu character. Its there any other CJF character created along similar lines as her?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 23 July 2019, 18:27:35
Thanks to her... rather unique position as a Galaxy Commander under Malvina Hazen with the sheer chutzpah to not only outright refuse Malvina's orders but also refuse to let someone else carry them out either, not particularly.

I like her a lot, and not just because she was cruising around in a Grand Summoner.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 23 July 2019, 18:44:24
Seems cut from very much the same cloth as Noritomo Helmer.

(Flight of the Falcon, Blood of the Isle, A Rending of Falcons)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: greenflea on 18 August 2019, 20:35:28
Eyries are good skirmishers.  Very good vehicle hunters, with large numbers of small weapons to immobilize and Talons to exploit range 0 physical attacks where vehicles are incapable of responding.  Jump 7 is very hard to hit; use it.

Gyrfalcons are the Rifleman 3N on four kinds of steroids, speed, and cocaine.  They can run or jump for a +4 to hit depending on what you need your attacker mod to be, they have an armament very similar to that of a Rifleman (except obviously Clan, which means your ideal engagement range is 25 hexes not 10), and it has Reflective armor so the usually natural predator of fast jumpy things (pulse lasers) are almost totally useless.

Shrikes are... fast for Assaults (5 hexes).  I personally enjoy the one with the Ultra/10, but the 2 column for clusters is just a little bit too unreliable for the twin Ultra/5 version to be very good.  I love the whole look, but you can make the argument that it's not very good.

I have put the shrike to good use in several games.
It’s very fast for an assault mech and the death from above is lethal.
Jump jets on a 100 Ton mech is nasty if you let me get too close..
Oh and the shrike is built to take the impact it dishes out from the death from above too..
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 27 September 2019, 12:21:06
Do we have an official paint scheme for the Raptor Keshik? I'm working on a missile-armed Lamborghini for Gaslands, want to do it in Falcon colors because because, and Raptor Keshik sounds like the perfect blend of psychotic and AAAAAHH!!! for such a thing.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 27 September 2019, 17:40:53
Who's Raptor Keshik again? Which Galaxy?

I did manage to resolve that Gyrfalcon Galaxy is just the DA-era name for Delta; they abandoned the green & yellow trim for metallic with green trim.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 27 September 2019, 17:48:48
Raptor Keshik is Malvina's personal guard of loonies... err, I mean the Khan's honourable personal unit. It's not assigned to any galaxy, acting as an independent unit.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 27 September 2019, 18:20:44
Well given that, I'm assuming metallic with forest green trim, based on the White Rose mini issued by WizKids.

I'd go gunmetal, green trim, joints/grilles in steel for contrast, allover black ink wash, drybrush the trim back up.

W.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 27 September 2019, 22:49:28
Who's Raptor Keshik again? Which Galaxy?

I did manage to resolve that Gyrfalcon Galaxy is just the DA-era name for Delta; they abandoned the green & yellow trim for metallic with green trim.

It's also called Gyrfalcon Galaxy in the Jade Falcon sourcebook, much like Gamma Galaxy is called Jade Falcon Galaxy.  I found that out earlier this week doing research for a project.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 27 September 2019, 23:36:53
I realize that Keshiks are fluid, almost ad-hoc units.  But does Turkina Keshik st exist in DA?  Or was it desolved when Raptor Keshik was formed?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 28 September 2019, 00:33:59
I realize that Keshiks are fluid, almost ad-hoc units.  But does Turkina Keshik st exist in DA?  Or was it desolved when Raptor Keshik was formed?

Keshiks are typically the personal unit of the Khan/saKhan of a Clan.  Ad-hoc isn't really the word I'd use to describe them.

Both Turkina Keshik and Raptor Keshik are mentioned in Era Report 3145 according to sarna.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 September 2019, 08:32:20
I realize that Keshiks are fluid, almost ad-hoc units.  But does Turkina Keshik st exist in DA?  Or was it desolved when Raptor Keshik was formed?

Turkina Keshik has been moved to lead formation of Alpha (Turkina) Galaxy and are led by saKhan Ryan Pryde. So it seems they've become the saKhan's unit, rather than the Khan's. A bit of a fall.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 28 September 2019, 10:37:26
The Jade Falcons have only ever had one or two Keshiks, right? I know some Clans have more.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 September 2019, 10:42:39
The Jade Falcons have only ever had one or two Keshiks, right? I know some Clans have more.

Yeah, some clans have a keshik per galaxy, but the Falcons only ever had one until the advent of the Raptor Keshik.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 28 September 2019, 12:36:17
Yeah, some clans have a keshik per galaxy, but the Falcons only ever had one until the advent of the Raptor Keshik.

That's what I thpught as well.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Neo-Tanuki on 07 October 2019, 12:45:11
Has Raptor Keshik's color scheme ever been described in any novels? "The Anvil" mentioned pro-Mongol Falcons wear black uniforms and ER:3145 shows Raptor's logo is the Eye of Horus, but I've not seen mention of 'Mech colors.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 07 October 2019, 13:43:45
Has Raptor Keshik's color scheme ever been described in any novels? "The Anvil" mentioned pro-Mongol Falcons wear black uniforms and ER:3145 shows Raptor's logo is the Eye of Horus, but I've not seen mention of 'Mech colors.

No.  It was created out of Malvina's supporters from the Desant, though, so a decent not-official scheme would be the gunmetal/green Jade Falcon scheme from Clickytech
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Railan Sradac on 19 November 2019, 06:43:36
I spent a while in Battletech-related introspection recently and had a realization.

I'm a Falcon.

Now, I'm still originally and primarily a Horse, and that's likely gonna stay that way; but more and more I find myself valuing and respecting the Falcons. This is probably more surprising to me than it ought to be given that I've been posting under a Falcon bloodname since I started on these boards 10-odd years ago, but I've had a complicated relationship with the Clan of Hazen ever since I first came in contact with this universe.

My first Battletech experience was Mechwarrior 2, in which I initially picked the Wolves because I thought the logo looked cooler. Then, I switched to the Falcons because they got earlier access to heavier mechs. Then, I read about the Refusal War in the in-game codex and decided the Falcons were jerks. A while later, I read the Legend of the Jade Phoenix, and while that gave me a really interesting look into Clan society and such... it really didn't endear me to the Falcons. (Side note: because of the direction I came to the game in, it was a long time before I realized the Clans were not actually the primary protagonists. ;D)

I dismissed the Falcons for a long time, considering them stuck-up, arrogant, hidebound jerks with no sense of humour. I picked my screen name not because of any actual liking for them; I just didn't like the sound of any of the Wolf bloodnames, and didn't really know anything about the other options.

However, in the past year or so my feelings have changed about them. My perception of them hasn't changed at all; I still think of them as being the same honour-obsessed stuck-in-the-past ****** who wouldn't recognize a sense of humour if it flew down and lobbed a katana at them, but but how I feel about them has.

What I've realized: I like the Falcons. They represent the heart of the Clans, to me; not the best of the Clans, necessarily, but the most important parts. Not the Jaguars' hamfisted heavyweights and their scream and leap philosophy, not the Wolves' scheming practicality, not the Bears'... whatever the Bears have. The Falcons embody the base essence of a Clan warrior: speed, fury, skill and pride; and their refusal to compromise their honour codes and beliefs even when everyone around them is cheating their honourless asses off really endears me to them, because they realize that that means they have to work twice as hard and be twice as good as everybody else, and they believe they can pull it off.

And so the Mongol Doctrine is really poignant to me because it's the cauldron boiling over on one hundred years of the Falcons' frustration and rage that no matter how hard they work and how good they are, they cannot beat their opponents and achieve their goals while staying true to their code. And in that moment, I think, part of the clan decided without really realizing, that they valued their code more than their goals... and I respect the hell out of that. But the other part, that cast it aside and followed Malvina... I want to see them win. I want to see Malvina tear Alaric Wolf's body out of his cockpit on Terra's blood-soaked sands and cry out in victory.

I don't think it'll happen, but I hope it does.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 19 November 2019, 12:59:42
Seylah, brother. You summed up perfectly how I feel about the Clan. And came to the same realisation as I did about Malvina and the Mongols. "I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more!"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Bren on 25 November 2019, 19:51:17
What.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 26 November 2019, 04:50:45
Green Bird approves your selections
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Shin_Fenris on 26 November 2019, 09:39:08
What I've realized: I like the Falcons. They represent the heart of the Clans, to me; not the best of the Clans, necessarily, but the most important parts. Not the Jaguars' hamfisted heavyweights and their scream and leap philosophy, not the Wolves' scheming practicality, not the Bears'... whatever the Bears have. The Falcons embody the base essence of a Clan warrior: speed, fury, skill and pride; and their refusal to compromise their honour codes and beliefs even when everyone around them is cheating their honourless asses off really endears me to them, because they realize that that means they have to work twice as hard and be twice as good as everybody else, and they believe they can pull it off.

I'll always be Wolf and Blood Spirit primarily, but I agree with this sentiment. It's what had me build a couple of trinaries in default Falcon camo (from the JFSB) and a binary of Turkina Keshik, and what is now making me think I need to add a Raptor Keshik force as well.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Precentor Scorpio on 27 November 2019, 15:49:54
Alright, so I think I figured how I wish to organize my Kickstarter purchase into Clan and ComGuards units.
First, the clans will be assigned to a new Galaxy.  Tyr Galaxy for now.  This is only for cheap fiction purposes and is not really needed I admit for gaming purposes.

So, my questions are:

Novas - Would a nova be identified as T43GA Nova 1 (First nova of Tyr Galaxy's 43rd Grenadiers Alpha Binary/Trinary)  Or Should I break the nova down to two stars.  T43GA Beak 1 and T43GA Strider 2?

For cheap fiction purposes, the galaxy consists of four clusters.  One cluster is at 100% (15 stars), one cluster is at 87% (13/15 stars), the 43rd is at (6/15 stars) and there is a Garrison Cluster identified as Tyr Garrison Cluster.  (How original I know.)
 
For the 43rd, I have included two aerospace stars.  Should I assign these fighters to Epsilon Binary (Alpha, Beta, Epsilon) or should I assign the fighters to Gamma Binary and move the fighters to Epsilon when more mechs and elementals are acquired to bring the 43rd up to full-strength?

For the galaxy command unit(s).

I think TCOM 1 and TCOM 2 works. 
But if I want to assign a fighter binary to the command unit.  Should these two fighters be identified as TCOM Wing 1 TCOM Wing 2.  Or should they be identified as TCOM 3 and TCOM 4?  Maybe they should be identified as T Wing 1 and T Wing 2?

Thank you for your responses
























Title: Looking for CJF Cluster logo ?
Post by: JAMES_PRYDE on 29 November 2019, 01:25:01
Hello Fellow Falcons :)

Good to be back

I am looking for a unit logo for the "74th Battle Cluster" of Zeta Galaxy (soon to be Gamma ;)) can anyone help me out

Thanks 8)

On another note, recently read "The Anvil" good novel, as I like it sets the stage for the future, and hopefully Malvina finally for Honour's sake, being deposed
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: ManicMaestro on 02 December 2019, 09:15:27
I am hoping some veteran Falcons can help me out. In the Revival Trials pdf the Falcons are described as the “Light armor” of the clans. In the Jade Falcon phonebook there are two galaxies comprised predominantly of light mechs.

Is that how most players see the Falcon emphasis on “mobility”? From the other sources it just seems like the falcons have a preference for the jumpy and faster mechs in each weight class.

I find it hard to believe that the Falcons would have as much success as they did in the invasion with that many Kit Foxes. And if it really was that way, then my respect for the falcons going harder and stronger than anyone else has reached a whole new level.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: AlphaMirage on 02 December 2019, 09:43:54
The Falcons are very much a mobility focused Touman though not to the extent of the Hellions.  The Storm Crow, Ice Ferret, Shadow Cat, and many light or medium mechs are within the Touman along with the Summoner and Hellbringer we all know and love.  Remember that they were facing down the LyrCom Wall of Steel with its big short range autocannons where the ability to get behind and beyond them would be a major tactical and strategic coup.  Also don't forget that a medium Clan Omnimech easily packs the same amount of firepower of a Gen 1 Heavy in a faster package.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 02 December 2019, 10:36:57
Also consider that even given Lyran stereotypes, the bulk of their enemies drove Centurions, Hunchbacks, Commandos, Valkyries, Phoenix Hawks, Shadow Hawks...you get my drift. Also consider that much of the invasion pitted elite Clan pilots against regular or veteran IS ones. I think you might be surprised at just how much mileage you can get out of skilled Kit Foxes in those circumstances.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 02 December 2019, 14:06:28
Kit Foxes vs IS 3015-era heavies is work. Kit Foxes vs IS 3025 mediums and lights isn't, under normal circumstances. Barring the occasional Hunchback, there aren't many IS 3025-era mediums or heavies that can take down a Kit Fox fast, and most of those can be engaged at range.

A Clan ERPPC, with a better pilot and on a chassis generating an additional +1 to hit compared to it's target, adds up, for example.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 02 December 2019, 14:47:49
A veteran Kit Fox A using overwatch rules, with buddies to keep the main combat units away from him, is essentially a one-mech answer to all of your enemies' light mechs.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 04 December 2019, 18:35:46
I don't know... when I play Falcon, I prefer the Kit Fox C, S and W models...

Yes W, even if it IS a Wolf's Dragoons exclusive!

My main ride is a S model, but I'll take the C over anything else out there.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 05 December 2019, 04:39:21
I like the S and C myself (in that order), but the giggly part of me can never resist the A
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 05 December 2019, 04:53:50
But eight rounds.... for a BOOM cannon if hit!

Loose that arm, your fallback weapons are a pair of ER Mediums...

Sure that built-in CASE will protect you, but a lucky hit robs you...

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 05 December 2019, 04:54:18
And there's my non-canon J variant. Anything which can mount a Gauss can carry a Clan Arrow IV ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qOk5LYDLA0QX8nhn20LD16CZ9kcke87eiamOH5V_bgwQXYYCK8NYQ7MugSPnovS9lW-24Nroox39qdIXNzZhCyilPv5WWx92fiXTm5QZonNtNdkSYukWU2IahsP9v1HU2FEH7ia_2uer8XbmCOWCXNuZh0T9yUYHBSQUUXXlbs2BcXbSuCfuuUNQG_hrg9VkRWgIphVxHWpGz55LjLO_l-7yRM4X7lWDuLPqypaVn3tTUWRE5H-e8_xabOaxl37kLEzj6bLu1WGqlz4AkzLVDsUhccMfF68AX2pcj15NRLFuDfRuFUr5PvAAmGraP145YTwOOCaAMhIHuiLbMt8mPRVXPHVbVNU_WVKVOkDBCpdGGGiXwF3rSgPBoGyM1ZiCCC5UWT3AzglLxIExW4mZJqbEykX0EiMA74jZFlfN65HNO7WHUuyhLsbNWP7K3jGnMpxMwnqLNrrcNE3r2c3vZixZNvp2KY2z0zQznf7imHKL9Z-8aKXtzUN0QuuBT6IIaWlKNwDDG4ucIWDX60H-77UJGnpE9H1XHYo1jABQTNy0EjrdYup7WRSZghn3vDuj271InwJheTsxaBtYMw7xs9f5OlxfIDJDCGf1iWfTJEX42GhaD6pT8YMM03bVR0VsOWJP-gqza-kWxS2K76XKZwlaOf_IyZD0lHUqr7lwbY5RjiDEsJMZBQMclyuLTETFGYaJkKbfaahpaCkAtSMXU3SxNhNFhkIDyeuwqbq-IA_qMvHK=w885-h420-no)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 05 December 2019, 04:57:33
Nice pic WT!

Though I'd have shaved off the shoulder and mounted the A4 directly to the torso, that way I can't lose the "Paddle" if the lower arm or elbow gets a crit!

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 05 December 2019, 11:27:21
But eight rounds.... for a BOOM cannon if hit!

Loose that arm, your fallback weapons are a pair of ER Mediums...

Sure that built-in CASE will protect you, but a lucky hit robs you...

TT

Sixteen rounds, per 3050u. Plenty for snap shots.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 11 February 2020, 09:02:31
A quick question for the Falcons here.

We know that pre REVIVAL the Falcons entered a deal with the Snow Ravens to get two Stars of WarShips to bolster their fleet, do we know what ships were actually traded over? Or is it basically where the Falcons got their Aegis class spam from?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 11 February 2020, 10:44:45
The Falcons didn't actually gain any ships, it's that Snow Raven ships were folded into the Falcon command chain. All the Falcon Aegoi in the sourcebooks were already Falcon ships before this. I swear, if Di Tron Industries still exists in any form in the modern era, those two Clans are their greatest advertisements.

Honestly, I find the whole Raven deal very interesting. The Falcons were one of the many Clans that actually expected to steamroll the Inner Sphere with minimal (but somehow glorious) resistance, and they had the same reports as everyone else from before the Dragoons went dark, saying the House Fleets were largely gone. Even if they decided to take any reports of the Fox project very seriously, we're talking about Falcons deciding their capabilities were lacking, and then asking for help from outsiders. Mind-bogglingly laudable. :o

I blame Khan Crichell, and think he may be my favorite Khan. :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 11 February 2020, 11:39:11
Interesting, I always thought the Aegis spam was what the Raven's gave the Falcons as part of the deal as it would explain the uniformity of the ships in the Falcons service. Heck only the Nova Cats had an equal number of Aegis class ships in service.

My interpretation of the deal was

Falcons] We need ships
Ravens] We have ships. Will trade for wares.
Falcons] We will give you stuff for ships
Ravens] Well bargained and done!

And then they just gave them a bunch of hulls in return for various cuts on what the Falcons would take in terms of resources, as well as a world. But as you said, it was remarkably sanguine of the Falcons to actually go ahead with this deal in light of what they knew about the state of the Inner Sphere. Perhaps they felt the  would need the heavy lift that Warships could do in terms of cargo etc?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 11 February 2020, 12:05:01
Possibly. Sarna's article on Crichell does say he was able to quickly resolve the logistical issues faced by the Invasion forces.

I still think they were meant to defend the Falcon invasion forces from heavy aerospace defenses. I don't remember where, but I recall a note somewhere saying the Raven ships were released and went back home when it was determined that there were no Inner Sphere ships for them to fight.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 11 February 2020, 12:27:03
I'd assume that the deal was started by his predecessor Yvonne Hazen as I'd assume they did it a little bit beforehand and following the Outbound light's arrival.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 11 February 2020, 13:15:51
It would be totally in Falcon character to not fully trust what a bunch of Wolf-lead scouts were telling them.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 11 February 2020, 13:24:58
It would be totally in Falcon character to not fully trust what a bunch of Wolf-lead scouts were telling them.

My thinking exactly :) The last report was what 20 years old? and Its from Wolves and you trust them as far as you could chuck a Dire Wolf.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 11 February 2020, 16:31:38
He doubts the strength of the Falcon! Get him!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Von Jankmon on 12 February 2020, 18:19:26
It would be totally in Falcon character to not fully trust what a bunch of Wolf-lead scouts were telling them.

There was no reason not to send in an advance network of Clan Watch members for a look-see in 3048.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 12 February 2020, 21:06:21
A couple of q's regarding the Falcon Guards:
1) IIRC they got destroyed at some point. Did they get rebuild during the Dark Age?
2) Do they use unique paint scheme or do they use Gamma Galaxy colors?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 13 February 2020, 04:44:51
Dark Age featured Falcon units were:

Alpha Com Trinary
Beta Com Trinary
Zeta Galaxy
Gyrfalcon Galaxy (aka Delta)
Turkina Keshik

For what it's worth. No other information known to me at this point.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 13 February 2020, 09:59:58
That was a weird midnight question on a phone. Finally got to my PC to check FM3145.... aand there's no Falcon Guards listed under any Galaxy among Jade Falcon forces.
Guess they're dead and buried.

Anyway, still wondering about their paint schemes. Per Camospecs, Gamma Galaxy uses appropriate camo with jade trim, and since Falcon Guards aren't noted anywhere specifically, i assume they use the same?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 13 February 2020, 11:10:07
That was a weird midnight question on a phone. Finally got to my PC to check FM3145.... aand there's no Falcon Guards listed under any Galaxy among Jade Falcon forces.
Guess they're dead and buried.

Anyway, still wondering about their paint schemes. Per Camospecs, Gamma Galaxy uses appropriate camo with jade trim, and since Falcon Guards aren't noted anywhere specifically, i assume they use the same?

Falcons Guards were destroyed in 3072 (ish) and never reconstituted.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 13 February 2020, 14:34:43
Seems a smidgen weird given their legacy but i suppose the Jihad delayed any plans to rebuild them, and subsequent downsizing (however much that affected the Clans) caused them to stay dead.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 16 February 2020, 18:19:22
Apparently, getting destroyed a few times makes you dishonorable and not worthy of reforming. Maybe there was no one with a tainted legacy like Aidan Pryde to dump on them to reform...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 16 February 2020, 18:35:49
lol
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Precentor Scorpio on 23 February 2020, 12:41:25
Just curious here,  do you prefer the current (3053-3075 ish) deployment of front-line and second-line clusters in the same galaxy, or do your prefer the galaxy's units to be all front-line or all second-line?
My preference is the mixed deployment and I personally think that is how the Falcons treated some of their units during the original invasion when I read the Jade Falcon sourcebook. 
Thanks
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 23 February 2020, 22:09:42
The Falcons didn't actually gain any ships, it's that Snow Raven ships were folded into the Falcon command chain. All the Falcon Aegoi in the sourcebooks were already Falcon ships before this. I swear, if Di Tron Industries still exists in any form in the modern era, those two Clans are their greatest advertisements.
their only intact shipyard branch became Ioto Industries. producer of the Commonwealth class during the succession wars, and the Fox and Molnjir class warships post-invasion.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 28 February 2020, 20:25:48
Just curious here,  do you prefer the current (3053-3075 ish) deployment of front-line and second-line clusters in the same galaxy, or do your prefer the galaxy's units to be all front-line or all second-line?

If secondline clusters are garrisoning the Homeworlds, then separate galaxies are fine.  If secondline clusters are occupying or invading in the OZ, then they should be integrated with frontline clusters in the same galaxies.  Guarding the henhouse doesn’t require as unified a command as invading and taking over some else’s henhouse.

Although not a perfect analogy — there are no part-time Clan warriors — I think this binary command structure is akin to the command of US National Guard units, which report to the States during peacetime/US stations and report to the Federal Government (Army and Air Force) during wartime/overseas stations.

Of course, the Falcons and most Clans involved in Operation Revival were not actually this smart with regards to how they utilized their secondline and garrison forces.  The Falcons’ frontline galaxies simply became depleted and secondline clusters were moved up to fill the gaps.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 03 April 2020, 16:29:16
I want to see Malvina tear Alaric Wolf's body out of his cockpit on Terra's blood-soaked sands and cry out in victory.
YES YES YES

If only CGL would just do this. It would be a wonderful narrative stroke, forcing the meta-protagonists (e.g., Wolf) to seriously reevaluate their frames of reference.

And of course Malvina as ilKhan would have huge potential.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 03 April 2020, 16:36:29
Malvina is a traitor, not a proper Falcon at all.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 03 April 2020, 18:13:12
Malvina represents the penultimate development of CJF and the clans generally.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 03 April 2020, 18:14:08
I want to see Malvina fail so hard it gives someone else the ba... er... beak (wings? talons?) to wrestle control away from her.

After that we can take Terra.  :beer:
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 03 April 2020, 18:31:27
Malvina is a traitor, not a proper Falcon at all.

Malvina is just nuts.  She’s not fit to manage a 7-11, forget a Clan or resurrected Star League.

Malvina represents the penultimate development of CJF and the clans generally.

Devolution, not development, is the right word here.  And if she’s the penultimate devolution, I’d hate to see the ultimate.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 03 April 2020, 18:33:14
Malvina is a wasteful surat. Threw pretty much all honorable conduct away.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 03 April 2020, 18:54:39
The ultimate development of the Clans would be them being reabsorbed into Inner Sphere society.

If Malvina becomes ilKhan, the most likely outcome is the Clans (including her CJF opponents) simply moving the goalposts, so to speak.

If your metric for understanding the Clans is “purity” everything since the return has been “devolution.”
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 03 April 2020, 19:29:12
The ultimate development of the Clans would be them being reabsorbed into Inner Sphere society.

If Malvina becomes ilKhan, the most likely outcome is the Clans (including her CJF opponents) simply moving the goalposts, so to speak.

If your metric for understanding the Clans is “purity” everything since the return has been “devolution.”

Malvina quite simply doesn't have enough political acumen to create an ilClan environment where the other Clans step into line, nor does she have enough humility to admit to a loss and bring her Clan into line.

Any ilClan outcome - no matter whether it's led by the Falcons or by another Clan - with by necessity demand the death of Malvina. I do not expect her to survive the next sourcebook, nor will her Mongol philosophy be able to survive a world where the ilClan is to become a sphere-wide body of authority and significance.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 03 April 2020, 21:14:21
I think it is tough for Clanner fans to accept but the Kerensky mythology is just a mythology. The invasion did not work. Nothing went as expected. More importantly, their experiences since the return fundamentally changed the Clans. CJF is among the most conservative, maybe the most, and the reign of Malvina shows you in a very clear, very extreme way how a century of fighting in the IS has developed — or devolved, if you prefer — “clan orthodoxy.” To me, this is why it would make perfect meta-sense for Malvina to “win” the ilKhanate; that would demonstrate with a real finality that all of this had been a reactionary fantasy, a futile attempt to sail into the current of history. It is possible, of course, to scream into the wind but what do you become by doing it? I think the answer is, Malvina and the Mongols.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 03 April 2020, 22:12:22
We know her daughter/pet has a knife now.  That would be an interesting plot twist.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 03 April 2020, 22:18:04
We know her daughter/pet has a knife now.  That would be an interesting plot twist.

Really? It's been what I've expected pretty much since Cynthy was introduced.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 04 April 2020, 01:17:00
Yeah what an utter fizzle that would be.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mendrugo on 04 April 2020, 01:28:00
But since Cynthy’s original family name was MacGuyver, she’ll be able to use the knife, some tinfoil, half a coconut, and a small amount of ammonium nitrate to override Malvina’s ‘Mech controls and launch her into a convenient volcano.

Cynthia concurs with Sideshow Bob, though, that the (hover)car chase was entirely gratuitous.

“And that’s the power of the Scientist Caste, kids!”
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 04 April 2020, 09:43:21
Yeah what an utter fizzle that would be.

It would be a bigger fizzle to let her fall to the side without any further (and interesting) development.  Chekhov's gun and all that.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 04 April 2020, 13:03:03
Comparing Cynthy to a stage prop seems appropriate. By the same token, she could easily be a red herring.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 04 April 2020, 13:26:03
Comparing Cynthy to a stage prop seems appropriate. By the same token, she could easily be a red herring.

Or perhaps BattleTech's Gollum?
Quote
My heart tells me that Cynthy has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Malvina may rule the fate of many - hers not least.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 04 April 2020, 13:33:42
Others above seem to suggest something closer to BT’s Grima Wormtongue
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 04 April 2020, 14:22:35
Others above seem to suggest something closer to BT’s Grima Wormtongue

Yeah, good call. 'Specially since Malvina calling for/doing something radical on Terra would be a pretty solid narrative parallel to Saruman scourging the Shire.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 04 April 2020, 14:32:15
Grima's a villain, as is Malvina, and Malvina's torture subject is unlikely to be one.


Malvina being utterly wrong for the Clans and whatever else has nothing to with purity BTW. It has do with the fact she's wasteful, petty, vindicative, mad, stupid. Very, very much like Stefan Amaris (though to his credit, Amaris was sane for most part).
Sure, she is terrifying at the moment, but that usually doesn't form a good foundation for future empires. Gonna be a short reign, if there's even one.
She had the idiotic idea that if she loses, she nukes Hesperus II. Doesn't make much sense... especially since there's a breaking point when her opponents start throwing WMDs back at her, and i figure losing Hesperus factories would've been one for the Lyrans (and i think everyone else would've followed suit).

There is no future with Malvina, only destruction. The early Succession Wars, the Jihad, and the Wars of Reaving were the result of Malvina-like thinking. All folly, all wasteful, with nothing gained for whoever started these.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 04 April 2020, 16:22:27
snip

Yep, and that's exactly why her death is guaranteed from a narrative viewpoint.
I'd also argue that her ruling the Falcons is also a guarantee that the ilClan will not be Clan Jade Falcon.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 04 April 2020, 16:27:26
Yep, and that's exactly why her death is guaranteed from a narrative viewpoint.
I'd also argue that her ruling the Falcons is also a guarantee that the ilClan will not be Clan Jade Falcon.
Well, there's a chance someone deposes Malvina and the Falcons then become the IlClan. But that does seem a smidgen unlikely.
Devlin Stone is playing a kingmaker at the moment and has picked someone to ally the Republic with, and it doesn't seem likely he'd pick even traditional Falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 04 April 2020, 16:32:26
Devlin Stone is playing a kingmaker at the moment and has picked someone to ally the Republic with, and it doesn't seem likely he'd pick even traditional Falcons.

Really, IMO, there's only one option, and that's Alaric Whatever-his-last-name-is-at-the-moment and the Wolves.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 04 April 2020, 16:36:58
Really, IMO, there's only one option, and that's Alaric Whatever-his-last-name-is-at-the-moment and the Wolves.
To be honest, i've started having slight doubts about that. I suspect there might be someone else and Alaric comes contesting this choice.
But whatever, it won't be Malvina.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 04 April 2020, 21:56:52
Really, IMO, there's only one option, and that's Alaric Whatever-his-last-name-is-at-the-moment and the Wolves.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if the Wolves become ilClan, Alaric's tenure as ilKhan will last approximately as long as Elias Crichell's, and then he'll be replaced swiftly and violently by the new ilKhan, Anastasia Kerensky.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 04 April 2020, 22:03:31
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if the Wolves become ilClan, Alaric's tenure as ilKhan will last approximately as long as Elias Crichell's, and then he'll be replaced swiftly and violently by the new ilKhan, Anastasia Kerensky.
I'd imagine Alaric is actually smart enough to be aware of this possibility...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 05 April 2020, 10:44:01
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if the Wolves become ilClan, Alaric's tenure as ilKhan will last approximately as long as Elias Crichell's, and then he'll be replaced swiftly and violently by the new ilKhan, Anastasia Kerensky.

I was left with the impression that she's now loyal to him.  Besides, power never really seemed to be her goal.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sharpnel on 05 April 2020, 11:55:38
I was left with the impression that she's now loyal to him.  Besides, power never really seemed to be her goal.
And if it were, her past with herself proved that she was not ready to handle it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 05 April 2020, 14:45:56
All this Wolf chat is, uh, fascinating and all, but maybe it belongs in the kennels.

Let’s also not do this analysis in reverse. Becoming ilClan is not contingent upon having the political temperament to reestablish the Star League or something like that. (It’s never going to happen, btw.) The front-end issue is capturing Terra, which Malvina has the sheer reckless willpower to accomplish. No doubt other clanners will simply say, doesn’t count!

Yet whatever happens next is not really the point, in a certain sense, although we can all agree that it would be unlikely to usher in a new golden age. More likely, it will be a typical moment of crisis (“she can’t be allowed to rule on Terra!”) that triggers a realignment of geo(astro?)political interests and launches a new series of wars, which is what the setting demands after all.

Furthermore, what could be more CJF than a dubious (even from viewpoints within CJF) claim to be ilClan? Chips on shoulders don’t get much bigger than that.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 05 April 2020, 15:03:20
The early Succession Wars, the Jihad, and the Wars of Reaving were the result of Malvina-like thinking.
In other words, history demonstrates that Malvina-like thinking is the rule rather than the exception; at least according to your account.

I object to the comparison between Malvina and Amaric. Amaric was a patient schemer and a deceiver. He is the epitome of byzantine IS treachery (pardon the potential redundancy). Malvina is exactly the reverse, a hurricane of naked will; the epitome of the warrior caste’s “honor” culture finally shown for what it actually is, under the masquerade of nobility: stark and brutal force.

Battletech is built on one fundamental tension: the hypocrisy of humans killing each other “by the rules” — with the big lesson that no one ever learns for too long being, violence is unavoidable but you have to maintain boundaries. The reason that always eventually falls by the wayside is that the stakes are always too high NOT to break the rules, in the short term. Rules always favor, in the long term, those who are already powerful. The only other option is to take your toys and stalk off home, a.k.a., “the Kerensky pout.” And that guy is the legendary hero of the setting (to my endless amazement). By the logic of the setting, CJF will never be a winner and they will always whine about honor for that reason. Malvina is past that. She’s in a position to give CJF what it ostensibly wants most of all but the cost will be using so-called honor as an excuse.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 05 April 2020, 16:09:21
I don't see the falcons taking earth.   Stone knows the end is coming and really has the most control over deciding who's going to win by where he puts his own forces. He's not going to let the Falcons have it.

As much as I'd hate to see what would happen to the falcons afterwards, I'd still love to see Malvina throw a hissy fit and unleash nuclear armageddon on Terra.   Would be cool to see where the story goes with Terra becoming a worthless hunk of rock.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 05 April 2020, 20:45:34
Would be cool to see where the story goes with Terra becoming a worthless hunk of rock.
That%u2019s exactly what Terra would become, symbolically, if Malvina conquered it; I mean, regardless of her actually devastating the planet. Malvina %u201Dwinning%u201D would be so fundamentally unpalatable to Clan Society that it would have to quit the game altogether (as I said above, moving the goalposts). Through everything, the Clans have held on to the Hidden Hope myth, in one form or another, and that, and the IS equivalent myth, would take a body blow from which it probably could not recover if Malvina was able to make a serious claim that she turned out to be The Chosen One.

If Devlin really gets to decide this. the question becomes why not just hand over the keys now? Unless the Third Republic was always a shell game with the real point being that Star League is never, ever getting back together.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 05 April 2020, 21:19:54
That%u2019s exactly what Terra would become, symbolically, if Malvina conquered it; I mean, regardless of her actually devastating the planet. Malvina %u201Cwinning%u201D would be so fundamentally unpalatable to Clan Society that it would have to quit the game altogether (as I said above, moving the goalposts). Through everything, the Clans have held on to the Hidden Hope myth, in one form or another, and that, and the IS equivalent myth, would take a body blow from which it probably could not recover if Malvina was able to make a serious claim that she turned out to be The Chosen One.

If Devlin really gets to decide this. the question becomes why not just hand over the keys now? Unless the Third Republic was always a shell game with the real point being that Star League is never, ever getting back together.

yeah, but only symbolically.  Maybe the other clans wouldn't want it anymore, but others would, and really, eventually the other clans will want it again too.   I want to see where the story goes with Terra completely out of the picture.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 05 April 2020, 22:42:16
I'm a little late on this one vis a vis Cynthy, but the appreciator of literature in me demands to be heard.  A plot element resolving as the audience expects based on information and cues is not a "fizzle".  A story beat shouldn't have to surprise you to be considered good.  That kind of expectation is killing good writing the world over and it's incredibly aggravating to watch it happen.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Manchu on 06 April 2020, 04:29:48
Sort of? A story can certainly be spoiled by trying to subvert the audience’s expectations at all costs but that doesn’t suddenly imply the reverse; that good writing is the most obvious delivery on the premise. To the contrary, good writing entails a sense of suspense during the movement from set up to pay off, principally as a matter of irony.

Cynthy having no role in the ultimate development of Malvina’s story would be bad writing because there would be no pay off to resolve the set up, and we’d rightly wonder why anyone bothered to introduce Cynthy in the first place. But likewise we’re dealing with bad writing if the character can have no point other than to eventually kill Malvina; in which case, we have a plot device rather than a character.

... which I think might be part of the problem. Cynthy’s just not much of a character in her own right and so we can’t easily think of anything to justify her existence other than (somehow) killing Malvina. The reason that would indeed be a fizzle is because Malvina is a well drawn character of significant narrative import (whether you like her or not) and disposing of her via Cynthy has no sense of proportion.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mendrugo on 06 April 2020, 05:24:17
One parallel example is the telegraphed set-up of Arthur Steiner-Davion becoming Devlin Stone.  Explosion takes out Arthur, figure floating in a tank strongly implied to be Arthur and discussion of mind-wiping, known ability of Star League-era tech able to mind-wipe people and implant new personalities, known Blakist ability to do the same.  Amnesiac Devlin Stone emerges and begins to form the resistance - all indications point to him being Arthur Steiner-Davion.  Then the writers realize that everybody caught on too soon and dropped that plotline, letting all the Arthur Steiner-Davion setup fizzle out.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 06 April 2020, 11:16:28
... which I think might be part of the problem. Cynthy’s just not much of a character in her own right and so we can’t easily think of anything to justify her existence other than (somehow) killing Malvina. The reason that would indeed be a fizzle is because Malvina is a well drawn character of significant narrative import (whether you like her or not) and disposing of her via Cynthy has no sense of proportion.

It's hard to give relevancy to a character who serves no military or political purpose in sourcebooks that focus nearly exclusively on those two subjects. Cynthy's a character that needs to be fleshed out in novels, but since I'm not a huge follower of that side of the fiction I'm not sure if enough has been written in the Dark Age setting to give her that kind of depth yet or not.

Then the writers realize that everybody caught on too soon and dropped that plotline, letting all the Arthur Steiner-Davion setup fizzle out.

Good point. Was it due to people catching on too quickly, though, or a conscious effort on behalf of the writers to move the narrative arc away from yet another "Steiner-Davion saves the day" story line? 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 07 April 2020, 14:06:28
Good point. Was it due to people catching on too quickly, though, or a conscious effort on behalf of the writers to move the narrative arc away from yet another "Steiner-Davion saves the day" story line?

Arthur was going to be on the other side of the Jihad if that thread had played out.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 07 April 2020, 14:22:43
I kinda figured that the moment we saw him wake up in a lab and be told Natalie Portman was dead. Lemme guess: An Appolyon, Berith, or Lucifer-level MD? And a climactic duel with Victor (or with Victor present), where his identity is revealed?

I don't care if it's predictable. You do it right, it'll still be awesome. :thumbsup:


Hmmm... We never did learn his final date. Who's to say he's not pulling a Stone out there right now, sleeping until the time is right for him to lead a new generation of MDs to launch a new assault? :)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 13 April 2020, 20:21:33
Okay, fellow Falcons, a choice: Hellbringer C (LB-20X, ATM6, ERLL, assorted smaller lasers), or Hellbringer F (two LB-10X, SSRM-6, couple of ERML). To be the CO's ride for a Command Star also consisting of a Timber Wolf Pryde, Timber Wolf S, Nova Cat A, and Shadow Cat C.

The C config is a more challenging mini conversion, but I cannot help but think the F works better with the others. Or do I subscribe to the "early, glorious death in battle" newsletter?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 13 April 2020, 20:45:49
Why would you need to convert?  IWM makes a Hellbringer C (https://store.ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=3697&osCsid=fvn7sfe5di9u3okb9gh9bq7qc6).

Now, that said, I prefer the F because range on the main guns is infinitely preferable to having to close to 12 hexes with a Hellbringer's armor on purpose.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 13 April 2020, 21:25:32
I love me some big guns, but I love range more.  Go with the F (ugly as it is).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 April 2020, 21:39:30
If you have the discipline to keep the LB-20X as a secondary gun and use the laser and ATMs as your primaries, the C actually has better range. If you think the urge to dakka it up before everything else is dry is going to be too great, go with the F.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 April 2020, 00:25:55
Why would you need to convert?

Because what I have is a high-qual plastic Hellbringer Prime, and
1) why buy when I can mod, plus
2) This is using up some of the the last of my IWM Clanners before the KS minis hit (yes, they will come, and I will build them ...)

I'm probably going to go with the C, if only for the fun of modding, plus having two great gun arms for future conversions!

Oddly enough, the two are virtually identical in Alpha Strike; 5/5/2, with the C having FLK1/1/0, and the F having FLK1/1/1.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Empyrus on 14 April 2020, 10:23:28
Voting Hellbringer-F but then that is probably my favorite Hellbringer config. Cheap, flexible, yet not awful.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 14 April 2020, 12:17:29
IMO the F is too much of a balanced mid-ranged brawler for it to be a good Loki config. Can't put out enough of a punch to instant-KO a target, doesn't have enough range to keep it alive for long. So consider that another vote for the C.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 April 2020, 12:29:15
I forget, can LB-X cannons use the TacOps double-fire rules, or is it just standard ACs? If they can, then in a C I'd wait until the ATM is dry, then try to close to big gun range and go for the ultimate in high-risk, high-reward. Win or lose, you're almost guaranteed to end up in the Remembrance, even if only in the "this was dumb, don't do it" sense.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 14 April 2020, 12:34:18
I forget, can LB-X cannons use the TacOps double-fire rules, or is it just standard ACs?

Just the standard, sadly.

And waiting back with the C sounds like a decidedly unLoki thing to do. If y'aint immediately YOLOing in for a brief blast of glory, y'aint Loki-ing hard enough ,lol.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 14 April 2020, 14:05:38
For any random Warrior, that's true.  For a Star Colonel, getting too aggressive and getting your ass shot down without even making sure you'd won the trial first is the worst possible outcome.

Command Stars are Cluster-level formations and this is the CO's ride.  You need to be playing with a fencing saber, not a cudgel.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 12 May 2020, 20:10:54
From the Coventry campaign, recon imagery of an Eyrie Cluster taking the field:
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 12 May 2020, 20:15:17
So three Heavy / Assault mechs and 27 Lights?

Sounds just about right!

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: marauder648 on 13 May 2020, 11:58:23
Jade Falcon Light Mech's on the move during the Coventry campaign

https://imgur.com/gallery/BbhJiOA
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sharpnel on 13 May 2020, 13:20:10
Don't know what those birds are, but they do look edible.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 08 June 2020, 00:45:42
So I discovered the Hellbringer 2 and the Summoner 2 today! Yes, I have been living under a rock and yes I am in love with both mechs. At first, I wasn't thrilled with the Hellbringer had it's movement dropped down to 4/6 because the 5/8 movement profile on a heavy is huge. But when I saw the armor upgrade and the weapon load outs, I was over it. This is the mech every Warhammer pilot wish he had during the Succession Wars. The ranged firepower on the configs are exactly how I would want them to be. Long ranged firepower with short range back up. There could have been a few more variants especially one with the insanity of the original Prime config.

The Summoner 2 picks up where the original left of. It keeps that maneuverability and retains the firepower of the original. I'm not as impressed with the variants on this as I am the Hellbringer 2, but they are still very functional. The Prime lacks a big gun to hit from at range but is still a phenominal brawler. The A takes over for the old prime. I'm not fond of the B. I guess we needed a missile boat but was the goal to see how many different missile launchers we could fit on a mech? C is the AC 20 bully and the D is the laser boat. I like it!

Now to fire up MM and test these out!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 08 June 2020, 01:46:51
Has anyone tested to see how well they mesh together, with Lokis providing fire support for the Thors?

(Basically, the same as the 3050s, only more so.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 08 June 2020, 18:10:20
I have, used a Grand Summoner -C with a Loki Mk. II -A supported with double points of Nacon supporting a single point of Demo C's.

Lost against some Wolves that ran a Nova against me, mostly Warwolf -C ( 3 total ), a Skinwalker-B and a Shadow Cat II 2. They had 3 points of Cuchulainn and a pair of ancient ER Micro armed Toad units.

It was a double blind city fight...

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 08 June 2020, 19:38:16
I have been away and out of loop for 5 years so I was shocked to read that Falcon Guard was destroyed 2nd and final time. As my favorite novels ever are Legend of the Jade Phoenix Trilogy so it was even bigger shock because of it.

Now Clan Invasion KS is great as it allows me to get more Clan mechs. BT miniatures are difficult to find around here as no LGS sells those. Even BT books are difficult to find let alone minatures.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 09 June 2020, 08:00:42
I have, used a Grand Summoner -C with a Loki Mk. II -A supported with double points of Nacon supporting a single point of Demo C's.

Lost against some Wolves that ran a Nova against me, mostly Warwolf -C ( 3 total ), a Skinwalker-B and a Shadow Cat II 2. They had 3 points of Cuchulainn and a pair of ancient ER Micro armed Toad units.

It was a double blind city fight...

TT

...and? How'd the mechs do?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 09 June 2020, 22:05:38
Great, used the Loki as the main attacker with supporting Demos, and had my Grand Summoner bring the pain to a Warhawk early on, kept the speed up. Got cornered by the Skinwalker that laid into my side so that a Cuchulainn Squad could crit me... My Nacons kept another Warhawk busy enough for me to swing the Loki in for a kill shot that missed. Losing both Demos to Toads, they had a Shadow Cat to deal with at that time, taking it down but not out, it lost a leg but could still shoot. By this time I had lost the Summoner, the twin Demolishers and a Nacon, with another Nacon on fire with smoke coming from it's side after a Cuchulainn Squad strike hit it.

In the end, it was fun... the Wolf player lost a Warhawk, a Skinwalker and the equivalent of two full squads of Cuchulainn, as well as four Toads. Three from a Squad and another one from the last. Everyone else had major damage dealt to them... Next game I'm going to run with more Infantry forces...

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Guardian11 on 13 June 2020, 13:59:36
It seems the Jade Falcons have another new Dark Age Era Mech, the Hierofalcon. Mentioned in the description for the Dominator at the back of Divided We Fall. Apparently a Dominator pilot engaged a Summoner and this new Hierofalcon during the battle for Skye.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 13 June 2020, 14:46:17
New DA era Falcon mech? Yes please! I really love how those fully embraise Falcon theme and roll with it.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 13 June 2020, 15:50:48
It's probably a Gyrfalcon on stilts ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 June 2020, 17:00:40
Three Erinyes in a trenchcoat!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Guardian11 on 13 June 2020, 20:14:01
I looked up the term and a Hierofalcon is a subgenus of falcons that include the Gyrfalcon and Lanner, though Divided We Fall spells the Mech name Heirofalcon. Considering the Gyrfalcon and Black Lanner are both 55 ton Mechs I wonder if the Heirofalcon might also be a medium Mech. Other than the name and that it saw service on Skye with the Jade Falcons no further details were provided.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 16 June 2020, 02:51:54
Good: new Falcon 'Mech

Bad: adding to my list of things I'm going to have to draw eventually
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Guardian11 on 18 June 2020, 16:20:22
Bryan Young just posted the cover to his new CJF novel, Honor's Gauntlet on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/hb2psn/the_cover_to_my_battletech_book_honors_gauntlet/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/hb2psn/the_cover_to_my_battletech_book_honors_gauntlet/)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 18 June 2020, 18:59:54
In the DA and beyond, how common are vehicles in the Jade Falcon touman and what types are used?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 18 June 2020, 19:19:26
Quite common, if taken directly from the DA novels. More embraced by the Mongol faction, and reflective of the loosening of the old Zell/Honour system, along with physical attacks.

Basically, vehicles are seen as cheaper and easier to get crew for than 'Mechs, so like Hamburger Helper.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Guardian11 on 18 June 2020, 19:50:58
Looking at the sorts of vehicles the Jade Falcons produce themselves or purchase from the Sea Foxes and their roles. It seems like, except for possibly the Horde Clusters, vehicles are used primarily in combat support roles to free up Mechs for direct combat.
Nacons, Kites, and Balacs are used for scouting and spotting.
Oros and Pikes are used for AA defense.
Indras, APCs, Cardinals, and Kus are used for infantry transport and support.
Hadurs, Indras, Gurzils, Huitzilopochtlis, SM2s, and Snipers are used for artillery and fire support.
Skandas, Chalchiutotolins, Sokars, and Demolishers are used for garrison duty and urban warfare.
Also, VTOLs seem fairly common with Donars, Skadis, Hawk Moths, and Cardinals all in use.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 June 2020, 03:10:01
Bryan Young just posted the cover to his new CJF novel, Honor's Gauntlet on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/hb2psn/the_cover_to_my_battletech_book_honors_gauntlet/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/hb2psn/the_cover_to_my_battletech_book_honors_gauntlet/)

That is one sweet looking cover. I do love me some Shrike
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Auberan on 19 June 2020, 10:18:38
Going by some of the fiction, vehicles are how the Falcons at least were making the most out of their freeborn populations, and washout Aerospace/Mechwarriors.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 19 June 2020, 16:00:29
Well seeing that DA era Falcons operate differently than they precessors whole use of more vehicles makes sense and is actually good change. It gives flexibility and numbers that Falcons lacked in past.

Bryan Young just posted the cover to his new CJF novel, Honor's Gauntlet on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/hb2psn/the_cover_to_my_battletech_book_honors_gauntlet/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/hb2psn/the_cover_to_my_battletech_book_honors_gauntlet/)

That is one nice looking cover.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 19 June 2020, 16:00:57
Looking at the sorts of vehicles the Jade Falcons produce themselves or purchase from the Sea Foxes and their roles. It seems like, except for possibly the Horde Clusters, vehicles are used primarily in combat support roles to free up Mechs for direct combat.
Nacons, Kites, and Balacs are used for scouting and spotting.
Oros and Pikes are used for AA defense.
Indras, APCs, Cardinals, and Kus are used for infantry transport and support.
Hadurs, Indras, Gurzils, Huitzilopochtlis, SM2s, and Snipers are used for artillery and fire support.
Skandas, Chalchiutotolins, Sokars, and Demolishers are used for garrison duty and urban warfare.
Also, VTOLs seem fairly common with Donars, Skadis, Hawk Moths, and Cardinals all in use.


Thanks! I did some digging into the faction list and looked at what was available! I read up on the stats to get familiar with the options! Looks like I will have to start integrating some vehicles into my games now!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 19 June 2020, 16:13:59
So who has checked out the new Recognition Guide: ilCLan yet? There are new Hellbringer variants in it! I really like the T variant. It's a good upgrade for the Prime. Specifically getting rid of the machine guns and it's ammo and upgrading them to AP gauss. Upgrading the SRM launcher to an ATM launcher gives it a weapon to be used at all ranges, too. It can support the PPCs at longer ranges and then smash anything that wants to get close!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 June 2020, 18:59:50
The Loki G strikes me as Falcon humor at its finest
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 June 2020, 20:30:10
The T is nice, but I think I'm actually going to stick with the Prime whenever the points are available. Unless a config boosts the durability with Modular Armor, then a Loki really needs that TC/ECM combo to be able to land hits far more often than it takes them in return.

The F is either for terrain where long-range combat isn't possible and victory lies in just doing add much damage as possible every turn, or it's a battlesuit hunter. Damn thing can practically wipe out an Elemental point in a single salvo.

The G practically screams Zellbrigen, being very clear about its intent being the smashing of heavy armor before said armored opponent can get through the Loki's skin.

I wasn't a big fan of the J, until I saw the role of Scout. Between that, the maneuverability, and that firepower, I think this will shine mostly in Alpha Strike games or much larger Battletech battles, where games are won with Lances and Stars, not individual mechs. There's gotta be some really interesting force building options there.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 22 June 2020, 15:22:03
Oh, and look, more Falcon hardware coming this Friday!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 25 June 2020, 15:48:31
Oh, and look, more Falcon hardware coming this Friday!

Joanna body pillows for everyone!
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 30 June 2020, 10:44:04
Due to all the Kickstarter hype, I've been looking at the Invasion-era Falcons of late, and I noticed that quite unintentionally, no less than four of my Falcon Omni minis have a visible NARC launcher on them, and I got to thinking about their use in a Clan that normally at least tries to focus on single combat whenever possible. At first, I thought they were used much like Arrows(and by extension TAG), to quickly eliminate targets unworthy of Zellbrigen (tanks, fortresses, pirates, etc) so that Warriors can get back to the important work of winning duels, glory, and GatoradeBloodname sponsorships. But NARCs show up way too often to be solely used against things that are barely worth shooting, much less planning for.

Then it occurred to me that maybe these NARC carriers are meant to be used against mechs after all. Moreover, they aren't there to break Zellbrigen (or take advantage of its breaking), their role is to enforce the honor code. The idea is that the NARC is on the field, and the entire Star is loaded with compatible missiles...but in normal duels, the pod is never fired. Combat proceeds as normal, until someone breaks a duel or otherwise acts in a way to show themselves to be dezgra in Falcon eyes. The NARC carrier then moves forward, tags the offender with a pod...and retribution is swift.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 30 June 2020, 13:59:13
There are also Explosive NARC pods, though I don't know when they were developed off the top of my head.  Four points isn't a lot of damage but it could be enough to do something nasty.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 30 June 2020, 14:12:13
I think those are actually IS only. Much like S-G LRMs, you have to customize the ammo before you can shove it through a Clan launcher.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 30 June 2020, 14:18:00
I think those are actually IS only. Much like S-G LRMs, you have to customize the ammo before you can shove it through a Clan launcher.

...where would one even look to determine which ammo is/is not available to Clan weapons?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 30 June 2020, 14:29:33
For tourney-level ammo? I dunno if it's also elsewhere, but Total War's section on special munitions starting on page 140 has it. After the test description for each ammo type, there's a "Weapon Type" line saying what kind of weapon fires it, followed by a "Technology Base" line saying who gets it. Tech Manual's Heavy Weapons Ammunition chart on page 345 also has a column for tech base.

But if you'll excuse me, I need to submit some errata reports, because both also list homing pods as IS only.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 30 June 2020, 16:11:28
The NARC carrier then moves forward, tags the offender with a pod...and retribution is swift.

Thoughts?

I’ve had similar thoughts about the Nova CEWS.  The surviving Homeworlds Clans should have adopted the technology on their mechs, not relegated it to Stone Lion vehicles.  In honorable trials within and between Homeworlds Clans, the Nova CEWS are turned off.  In blackout assaults against Tainted opponents, the gloves come off and the Nova CEWS are turned on.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 30 June 2020, 18:08:01
I’ve had similar thoughts about the Nova CEWS.  The surviving Homeworlds Clans should have adopted the technology on their mechs, not relegated it to Stone Lion vehicles.  In honorable trials within and between Homeworlds Clans, the Nova CEWS are turned off.  In blackout assaults against Tainted opponents, the gloves come off and the Nova CEWS are turned on.

I think it's a pride thing though.  Ganging up on one enemy is one thing, but using outside targeting data to improve you hit/miss ratio is another.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 03 July 2020, 20:06:10
After IRGV2, I'm itching to know more about this Jade Phoenix. Though I'm imagining that it jumps and has talons, simply based on its namesake
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 July 2020, 14:40:23
Given:

- That the Falcons were at one point collaborators on the Savage Wolf with the Foxes, and possessed non-omni, ferro fibrous skinned early Mad Cat Mk IV's

- That Aiden Pryde is reffered to as the Jade Phoenix and is a notable Timber Wolf Pilot

- That the Jade Hawk was originally slated to be an Omni, but produced as a static mech

if we might not be seeing the Jade Phoenix as a Heavy Omnimech, a Falcon answer to the Timber Wolf.

Alternately, if it's not that, I'm betting some sort of vicious assault omni to deal with all the chonk that the Lyrans and Wolves and Horses can bring to play. Something more prestigious than a Shrike, newer than a Turkina.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 06 July 2020, 12:12:56
Who paints Falcon minis? I need to get started on that before the kickstarter gets shipped and am interested in what paints people use for Jade Falcon colors.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 06 July 2020, 12:25:37
I used GW paints to paint mine up similarly to the clix minis.  I was smart and wrote down what colors I used so I'd remember the next time I painted my falcons (or any of my other factions).  :thumbsup:  I was also stupid and didn't put that list in the box of paints when I moved and now I have no idea where it is.  xp
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 06 July 2020, 18:02:49
I'd guess Abbadon Black base, drybrushed Leadbelcher, then the modern equivalent of Goblin Green or Snot Green for the contrast panels. How I intend to do mine.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 06 July 2020, 18:24:49
I use Vallejo Model Air Sick Green for my base coats, and avoid Delta Galaxy at all costs because green with yellow only looks good in Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 06 July 2020, 18:35:21
I hope meant Wisconsin  Cheese.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2020, 19:13:43
I'm crazy enough to Delta, using GW's Warpstone Glow for the green, and Apple Barrel's Yellow for the yellow.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 06 July 2020, 19:31:14
I'd guess Abbadon Black base, drybrushed Leadbelcher, then the modern equivalent of Goblin Green or Snot Green for the contrast panels. How I intend to do mine.

No, it was a darker green over a white base coat and a lighter green for accents/contrast panels   I'll share a couple pics later.  I'm on the wrong computer at the moment.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 06 July 2020, 21:32:43
Epsilon is the choice for people who want to do Delta, but fear yellow.

Now I'd do Delta with Citadel yellow contrast over light grey for the contrast panels.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 06 July 2020, 21:59:13
Found a few pics.

Even heavily cropped, I still love how that Warhawk picture came out.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Guardian11 on 06 July 2020, 22:54:50
I did a Binary of CJF Delta Galaxy. Pic of some of them below.
I primed with Rustoleum camo green.
Then base coated with Vallejo Intermediate Green.
Black Wash
Vallejo Gunmetal Gray for the metal components
Vallejo Flat Yellow for the trim. I had to use several light coats for the yellow, but it wasn't too difficult.
More Intermediate Green to clean up the wash and any over painting
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 06 July 2020, 23:10:37
Epsilon is the choice for people who want to do Delta, but fear yellow.

Now I'd do Delta with Citadel yellow contrast over light grey for the contrast panels.

Dark Age wise I love me some Zeta for an easy scheme.

EDIT: Omega is also really great but I leave off the red every time because I think it's tacky.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 07 July 2020, 00:44:40
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cyJGEboaK8FTpD7CvyrmqithQoZ3ng2Kz1PZRFCncGb75G2gqv1abVpNAfiCK5jUWMj2lObQKAO7baI5uhISPvzDM6XJfDqPExNH3f3cDTMCfO8_0BGuz7oncxLVqLSgSCT-wFD00_mBs2X_UU6dS7=w853-h417-no?authuser=0)

Is not tacky! You just need to use a few goes with a dry brush.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 07 July 2020, 01:20:05
Way back in the 90s, I painted a few minis in Jade Falcon colors and they were green with a brown accent and highlights. I'm not a big fan of yellow and don't want my mechs to look like they are from Clan John Deere.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 07 July 2020, 01:53:23
Is not tacky! You just need to use a few goes with a dry brush.

Definitely tacky.  Metallic green over steel is fine, red paint splatter on the legs and feet to "indicate their intentions with the [Steel] Viper Clan" is groan-inducing and the kind of thing I'd expect out of an edgy teen writing a fan fiction unit.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 07 July 2020, 02:23:37
It's Omega. And they're Clanners, which is all about having something to prove. I also believe that not having a chemical toilet in their 'Mechs does ... things to their minds.

(I hear only Clan Hell's Horses has a hatch in the bottom of their tanks ... and even they lack the Boiling Vessel.)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 07 July 2020, 06:49:43
Given:

- That the Falcons were at one point collaborators on the Savage Wolf with the Foxes, and possessed non-omni, ferro fibrous skinned early Mad Cat Mk IV's

- That Aiden Pryde is reffered to as the Jade Phoenix and is a notable Timber Wolf Pilot

- That the Jade Hawk was originally slated to be an Omni, but produced as a static mech

if we might not be seeing the Jade Phoenix as a Heavy Omnimech, a Falcon answer to the Timber Wolf.

Alternately, if it's not that, I'm betting some sort of vicious assault omni to deal with all the chonk that the Lyrans and Wolves and Horses can bring to play. Something more prestigious than a Shrike, newer than a Turkina.

I am fine with that. It really shows that Jade Falcons haven't forgotten they past and they still respect they past heroes like Aidan Pryde.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 07 July 2020, 09:39:29
...edgy teen writing a fan fiction unit...

Be honest. Can you name *any* facet of the Clans that doesn't fit into this category, especially anything written prior to 2000 or so?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 07 July 2020, 10:15:20
STACKPOLE...

 ::)

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 07 July 2020, 13:04:07
Be honest. Can you name *any* facet of the Clans that doesn't fit into this category, especially anything written prior to 2000 or so?

All of the other Falcon Galaxy paint schemes. :P
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 08 July 2020, 03:48:47
Epsilon is my go-to Falcon scheme as well because it's easy to paint. Though I have considered experimenting with some of the DA-style schemes
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 14 July 2020, 05:41:48
Apparently the Heirofalcon is an OmniMech and it's Prime config has a HAG/20

Things worth knowing
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 July 2020, 08:09:07
I'm hoping for a fast assault, something along the lines of an updated, Falconlier Executioner or Gargoyle. We've got plenty of slow heavy hitters, I want something that can keep up with our Grand Summoners as well as our plethora of older fast Omnis.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 14 July 2020, 20:06:21
I saw a suggestion it's a medium.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Guardian11 on 14 July 2020, 22:51:26
I speculated when I first saw the mention of the Heirofalcon in the Dominator description at the back of Divided We Fall that just as the IRL Heirofalcon is related to the Lanner and Gyrfalcon the same could be true of the Mech, which could mean that like the other two the Heirofalcon is 55 tons. The HAG20 kind of makes me wonder if it's a birdified, omnified, slimmed down Shadow Cat II.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 July 2020, 09:55:37
If it's a medium, I'm actually going to go the other way, and hope for a general-purpose combatant, a replacement for the Nova.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 17 July 2020, 08:17:29
Epsilon is my go-to Falcon scheme as well because it's easy to paint. Though I have considered experimenting with some of the DA-style schemes

Sigma has another easy Falcon paint scheme (gray with some forest green) but I admit that Epsilon has more fitting one for Falcon galaxy. Sigma galaxy color scheme is closer to Wolf paint scheme than what is considered to be traditional Falcon color scheme.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 17 July 2020, 17:27:20
The Hierofalcon is a very good Omni.  I'm pretty sure it's the first outright Omni with a Partial Wing?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 July 2020, 17:36:19
I believe so.

Pour out a Fusionnaire, trothkin - the Summoner is no longer a Jade Falcon staple, and now only produced by the Horses. :'(
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 July 2020, 17:42:50
I believe so.

Pour out a Fusionnaire, trothkin - the Summoner is no longer a Jade Falcon staple, and now only produced by the Horses. :'(

But the Grand Summoner (aka Thor II) is still made by the Falcons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 17 July 2020, 17:43:42
I believe so.

Pour out a Fusionnaire, trothkin - the Summoner is no longer a Jade Falcon staple, and now only produced by the Horses. :'(

We still make Hellbringers, quiaff?  ???
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 July 2020, 17:46:04
Dunno...but still. The Thor has been a staple of the Jade Falcons for almost thirty years real-time. End of an era...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 July 2020, 17:46:59
Things change. Things always change.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 July 2020, 17:50:12
We're Jade Falcons. We shoot change. >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 17 July 2020, 17:58:37
Well I say it's about time Summoner is no longer Jade Falcon staple. It was so long Jade Falcon staple that it made no sense.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 17 July 2020, 19:07:43
The Falcons not producing Summoners is like the Wolves without Timber Wolves...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sharpnel on 17 July 2020, 19:55:00
We're Jade Falcons. We shoot change. >:D
and subsume it to your will.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sellsword on 17 July 2020, 20:25:59
I'm hoping for a fast assault, something along the lines of an updated, Falconlier Executioner or Gargoyle. We've got plenty of slow heavy hitters, I want something that can keep up with our Grand Summoners as well as our plethora of older fast Omnis.

Well the Heirofalcon is a medium but I still want this.  We have too many 4/6 mechs for my taste.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 17 July 2020, 20:35:33
So, with all the partial wing love... are the Falcons good enough to wear the penalties for permanently jumping.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 17 July 2020, 20:49:48
I'm just surprised that there's no Heirofalcon configuration with Talons

However, I'm not that bothered about the Falcons no longer building the Thor. The Thor II is equal or better in every way while still having the same theme and concepts
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jellico on 17 July 2020, 21:16:33
Depends if you can pod mount talons.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 17 July 2020, 21:19:36
Talon pods eh? Now there is one really Falcon like idea.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Deadborder on 17 July 2020, 21:22:14
Depends if you can pod mount talons.

You can. Amusingly, so far the only 'Mech to do such is the Sarath
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 17 July 2020, 22:10:47
I'm hoping for a fast assault, something along the lines of an updated, Falconlier Executioner or Gargoyle. We've got plenty of slow heavy hitters, I want something that can keep up with our Grand Summoners as well as our plethora of older fast Omnis.

Uh, what exactly do you call a Shrike, if it's not something that fits all of these criteria?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Von Jankmon on 17 July 2020, 22:13:43
Well I say it's about time Summoner is no longer Jade Falcon staple. It was so long Jade Falcon staple that it made no sense.

If so, I think that's a sad degeneration. There is a reason people keep going back to 3025 and 3050.

Classic designs > wing shard nonsense et al.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 July 2020, 22:15:27
Uh, what exactly do you call a Shrike, if it's not something that fits all of these criteria?

Should have clarified: I'm hoping for an Omni that fits those criteria.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 17 July 2020, 23:43:22
If so, I think that's a sad degeneration. There is a reason people keep going back to 3025 and 3050.

Classic designs > wing shard nonsense et al.

Don't worry, it's not because of flappy bird shenanigans, but because they prefer the undeniably superior Thor II.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 18 July 2020, 11:41:21
We still make Hellbringers, quiaff?  ???

Aff. The Hellbringer fluff from Rec Guide 1 states that it is produced alongside the Hellbringer 2. It appears to see more use among solahma and disgraced warriors then front line mechwarriors.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 18 July 2020, 11:51:21
The Heirofalcon is the omni that the Jade Falcons have needed and should have been producing a lot earlier then they did. It's mobile and it hits hard. I've been waiting for this mech for a long time. I'm glad they didn't make jump jets fixed. IJJs and a Partial wing though! 10 jump MP.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 18 July 2020, 14:18:57
Come think of it just like Summoner looks like Omni version of Thunderbolt, Hellbringer looks like Omni version of Warhammer. That must had been intentional design choice. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 20 July 2020, 12:29:10
The Hierofalcon is a very good Omni.  I'm pretty sure it's the first outright Omni with a Partial Wing?

The Flamberge has a partial Partial Wing.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 July 2020, 13:45:58
Not the Omni. Like the Cougar, all the winged Flamberges are non-Omni variants.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 20 July 2020, 14:08:33
Not the Omni. Like the Cougar, all the winged Flamberges are non-Omni variants.

The 2 and 3 have regular Partial Wings. The Omni has a partial Partial Wing.  ;)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 July 2020, 14:25:21
You're trying to be silly, aren't you...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 20 July 2020, 14:26:23
Partial Partial Wings have all the coolness of the real thing, like snazzy art, but none of the crunch.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: wantec on 20 July 2020, 14:28:27
You're trying to be silly, aren't you...
That's Kit's default operating mode
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 July 2020, 14:29:18
You're trying to be silly, aren't you...
Partial Partial Wings have all the coolness of the real thing, like snazzy art, but none of the crunch.

So the emphasis was on "trying". Gotcha.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kojak on 20 July 2020, 15:28:56
Well, utter imperviousness to humor is a classic Jade Falcon trait, so this feels fittingly in-character.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: GreekFire on 20 July 2020, 16:29:45
So the emphasis was on "trying". Gotcha.

Should I post this as a reply whenever you're "trying" to be silly, or is that something only mods get to do?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 21 July 2020, 04:39:43
Come think of it just like Summoner looks like Omni version of Thunderbolt, Hellbringer looks like Omni version of Warhammer. That must had been intentional design choice.
A Warhammer from the front, an Archer from the side.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SummonerDriver on 22 July 2020, 18:57:19
In the upcoming Battletech releases there is a tale called Honor's Gauntlet featuring Star Captain Archer Pryde. That name is in the Kickstarter Backer Database. Is this the first Kickstarter canon character we have seen?

 https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: nckestrel on 22 July 2020, 19:05:52
Michael Hiner, a Griffin notable Mechwarrior in the Recognition Guide vol. I, is listed in the database.  As is Alishay Glass and Jan (Muller). And Nathaniel Carlson and Daniel Daley and.. I'm going to stop checking now :).
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: SummonerDriver on 22 July 2020, 19:54:01
Michael Hiner, a Griffin notable Mechwarrior in the Recognition Guide vol. I, is listed in the database.  As is Alishay Glass and Jan (Muller). And Nathaniel Carlson and Daniel Daley and.. I'm going to stop checking now :).

Thank you for info. I hope at some point the database will reference the material where the character is used.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 22 July 2020, 20:17:22
The notable Griffin pilot Mechwarrior Jan is from the character list. The submission notes that the name is pronounced yawn. The fluff states that Jan gets upset when people mispronounces his name. They nailed this character submission. Mechwarrior Tyle Malthus from the Summoner fluff is another character from the submissions list. I had also noticed Archer Pryde was in there too. It has gotten me excited from future Recognition guides to see if my character is in there. I didn't list a specific mech so I can end up anywhere. Maybe I'll be a Jade Pheonix pilot!

I am also guessing this was part of the plan when they asked for character submissions.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 22 July 2020, 22:33:30
It would surely be interesting if they gave Archer Pryde Jade Phoenix because it's brand new mech. Sure I could see him get some other mech instead but still.

By the way, talking about Pryde. Are they any known characters that were created from Aidan Pryde's genes? Of course they wouldn't have Pryde bloodname because as we all know it's gene mother's bloodname that they are allowed to fight over. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 22 July 2020, 23:14:13
Archer Pryde selected a Warhawk Prime as his preferred choice of mech but that doesn't necessarily mean that is what the character will be piloting one.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 23 July 2020, 02:28:37
By the way, talking about Pryde. Are they any known characters that were created from Aidan Pryde's genes? Of course they wouldn't have Pryde bloodname because as we all know it's gene mother's bloodname that they are allowed to fight over.

... you mean besides Diana Pryde?
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sharpnel on 23 July 2020, 04:15:12
IIRC, Diana's mother, Peri, was of the Pryde bloodhouse, so it's all good.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 23 July 2020, 09:54:08
... you mean besides Diana Pryde?

I meant trueborn ones that were created by using his genetic material. I should had been more specific so this is on me. Besides Diana Pryde is freeborn and exception.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 23 July 2020, 09:59:57
By the way, talking about Pryde. Are they any known characters that were created from Aidan Pryde's genes? Of course they wouldn't have Pryde bloodname because as we all know it's gene mother's bloodname that they are allowed to fight over.

I can't think of any characters that are confirmed to be created from Aidan's genes, but really any Pryde could have been.

Clan genetic science allows for a 'male' to be used as the 'matrilineal' contributor. For example, the Falcons would use Aidan's genes for a Pryde sibko, where another Clan, lets say Ghost Bear, would use it as the secondary/male contribution to a Gurdel sibko.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 24 July 2020, 17:17:26
It would surely be interesting if they gave Archer Pryde Jade Phoenix because it's brand new mech. Sure I could see him get some other mech instead but still.

By the way, talking about Pryde. Are they any known characters that were created from Aidan Pryde's genes? Of course they wouldn't have Pryde bloodname because as we all know it's gene mother's bloodname that they are allowed to fight over.
The 'gene mother' can be a male warrior. The term simply denotes whose genes were inserted into the egg cell. That part of the process is I believe possible even with today's tech.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 24 July 2020, 17:32:33
Ah I see. I didn't know about that but that is very interesting. I quess they need to do that time to time. 
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Guardian11 on 25 July 2020, 17:17:16
Ah I see. I didn't know about that but that is very interesting. I quess they need to do that time to time.
That's how the Wolf-Coyote sharing of Kufahl and Kerensky genes work in honor of Dana's and Andrey's relationship. The 'Yotes have to use the Kerensky genes as genefather, while the Wolves have to use Kufahl as the genefather. So that way they don't have to worry about another Clan taking up some of the limited slots allotted to each Bloodhouse.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 25 July 2020, 22:39:28
TBF the matrilineal descent only happened later. In the early days of the Eugenics program it was much more freeform.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 26 July 2020, 13:26:05
Trothkin can I be honest with you? I'm starting to dread the ilClan book. I'm not sure I see any way it could be anyone other than the freakin' Wolves taking the title.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 July 2020, 13:39:55
I have no doubt the Wolves will get the prize initially. But they'll probably get rid of Malvina for us, and then the REAL question: Will they be strong enough to hold the title? >:D
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 26 July 2020, 18:53:18
Wolves: "We're the IlClan!"

Other IS clans: "So what?"
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 26 July 2020, 19:17:12
Wolves: "We're the IlClan!"

Other IS clans: "So what?"

Wolves: "We're here for your shoes..."

Other IS Clans "Shoes must be won in the noble rite of battle and trial, Wolf freebirth scum."

There will be much war before the suzerainty of any clan, Wolf or Falcon, is recognized.  Many trials, and not all Clans will pass through to the other side.

Seyla.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Sharpnel on 26 July 2020, 19:50:24
Wolves: "We're the IlClan!"

Other IS clans: "So what?"

Other IS Clans: and greatly weakened by your conquest. Your time as IlClan will be ... short.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: truetanker on 26 July 2020, 19:52:06
" Their Wolverines. " is what Jerome Blake would have said.

TT
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 July 2020, 20:21:55
Other IS Clans: and greatly weakened by your conquest. Your time as IlClan will be ... short.

That's how I expect things to go, unless Alaric by some shenanigans managed to absorb the RAF mostly intact.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 26 July 2020, 21:51:58
I wouldn't count that out.  Alaric might use the fear of Malvina and the Jade Falcons to leverage just that, an Absorption of Republic forces for use like the Romans used auxiliaries. 

All that needs to happen is for Malvina to be herself.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 26 July 2020, 23:04:02
I'm on board with the Mongol philosophy, insofar as I totally get "I'm mad as hell and not taking any more!"

But Malvina can eat a lithobraking WarShip.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: MarauderCH IIC on 26 July 2020, 23:10:54
Something mind blowing is going to happen. Is there going to be a lot of angry Jade Falcon players, possibly. Are there going to be ecstatic Jade Falcons, maybe. Are the Jade Falcons going to come extremely close to winning but to only lose at the last second, most likely. Are we going to hate all that is Clan Wolf and Wolf's Dragoons even more, highly likely.


Will Malvina win the battle but somehow get killed by her fellow Jade Falcons to end her insanity. Hopefully...
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 26 July 2020, 23:12:19
Or the Capellan Confederation, the RotS' sworn nemesis since day one.

I noticed near the end of Shattered Sphere the Wolves were making efforts to take bondsmen when possible of RAF units they encountered in the push to Terra. I'm wondering if/how badly that will bite them in the ass, if all those RAF soldiers keep their allegiance to the Republic despite their cords being cut, or if they'll be the squishy first line once the Falcons strike.

For Malvina, you'd think she's got a dagger with her name on it already if I recall The Anvil. Then that would only leave the Raptor Keshik to deal with (but not before detailing what their paint scheme is!)
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: rebs on 26 July 2020, 23:19:44
All I know for sure is I'm getting a new laptop in order to download IlClan the day it hits.  Tired of posting on my phone.  And I'll get a good copy of word to contribute, even if it's just fan fiction and Sarna.  I have stories that need to exorcised from my soul.  And the Jade Falcons are among those stories.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Scotty on 28 July 2020, 00:04:26
I'm on board with the Mongol philosophy, insofar as I totally get "I'm mad as hell and not taking any more!"

But Malvina can eat a lithobraking WarShip.

I mean, that wasn't even the point of the Mongol doctrine.  Mongol doctrine is "if you resist we will kill all of you, if you surrender none of you will be harmed", it's a doctrine of rewarding submission and harshly punishing dissent.

Nothing about the Falcons' use of Mongol doctrine has actually been it, it's just indiscriminate slaughter with a name.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: worktroll on 28 July 2020, 00:32:20
It may not have been the point, but it's why so many Falcons adopted it. it gave them the excuse to take the gloves off.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Mecha82 on 28 July 2020, 07:26:53
I can see why so many Falcons are willing to follow nutcase that is Malvina Hazen and her version of Mongol Doctrine but I am not so sure that it's good thing on long run. Sure there is some logic behind Falcons adopting it but it only makes everyone our enemies. It does reflect Jihad and how Wobbies did things during it.   
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 August 2020, 12:44:10
I can see why so many Falcons are willing to follow nutcase that is Malvina Hazen and her version of Mongol Doctrine but I am not so sure that it's good thing on long run. Sure there is some logic behind Falcons adopting it but it only makes everyone our enemies. It does reflect Jihad and how Wobbies did things during it.

Yeah, they forgot the Smoke Jaguar lesson. If you are a big enough jerk everyone will team up to crush you.

Which... is about to happen considering all the people getting ready for Terra.

The Falcons just can't get off the train because of Malvina.
Title: Re: Clan Jade Falcon Thread II: Falcon Harder. I SAID HARDER!
Post by: DarkSpade on 12 August 2020, 17:52:14
From the sounds of the falcon book preview, I think there's a movement from the inside to get rid of her.

Really at this point, I don't know if I want her out more because she's a nut case that's going to get my favorite clan destroyed, or because she's become such a boring 2 dimensional villain.