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BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Kitsune413 on 11 October 2015, 10:46:29

Title: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 October 2015, 10:46:29
Name up for trial of possession.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 October 2015, 14:23:17
Presumptuous Sea Fox! Need I remind you what happened last time?  :))
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 12 October 2015, 14:47:26

Wolf Empire: The ilFaction
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Deadborder on 12 October 2015, 15:01:24
Wolf thread: we're going to keep talking about this thing as if it allready happened
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: SteveRestless on 12 October 2015, 15:02:03
Wolf thread: we're going to keep talking about this thing as if it allready happened

Beats "Wolf Thread: 40% of the posts in here are a falcon complaining"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Deadborder on 12 October 2015, 15:48:52
Wolf Empire: MechWarrior Marisa for Khan

Wolf Empire: Punched in the face by a Colossal
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 October 2015, 17:46:04
Well the pre-trial of possession name isn't so presumptuous. But I'm a Sea Fox. You should compete Deadborder!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Deadborder on 12 October 2015, 18:07:58
I think I will!

In the meantime, here's another couple

Wolf Empire: Exiles need not apply

Wolf Empire: Kyle Wolf Appreciation Thread
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: SteveRestless on 12 October 2015, 18:15:11
You should compete Deadborder!

What'd I do to make you hate me so much? ;_; Trying to sell the wolf thread to a Falcon?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 October 2015, 18:31:46
What'd I do to make you hate me so much? ;_; Trying to sell the wolf thread to a Falcon?

Haha. Well I own the thread so I'd never change it to anything derogatory.

But it sets a precedent for the title of falcon thread if anybody ever wrote there.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 13 October 2015, 10:07:58
But it sets a precedent for the title of falcon thread if anybody ever wrote there.

Guess you have not been on there recently merchant?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Kitsune413 on 13 October 2015, 10:19:12
Guess you have not been on there recently merchant?

The battletech forums exist only to dispute the production status of the Mad Cat and to hate eachother over LAM's.

Occasionally it exists as an advertising tool for new products. Why would anyone ever talk about the Jade Falcons? (don't answer that! This is the wolf thread!)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: GarageBay9 on 13 October 2015, 11:16:28
Why would anyone ever talk about the Jade Falcons?

So we can make sure the kill markers on the side of our Mechs look correct.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 14 October 2015, 16:30:05
Beats "Wolf Thread: 40% of the posts in here are a falcon complaining"

Better way of saying it:
"The Wolf Empire Thread: The Falcons Mess In Here Too"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: False Son on 14 October 2015, 16:38:06
Beats "Wolf Thread: 40% of the posts in here are a falcon complaining"

Better or worse than the "woe is Clan Wolf under Vlad" songs sung in the past?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Deadborder on 14 October 2015, 21:11:58
There's an idea for another one:

"Wolf Empire: Not even Vlad could mess this up (well, maybe)"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Kojak on 14 October 2015, 22:12:13
How about "The Wolf Empire: At Least We're Not Mongols"?

Or "The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone"?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: SteveRestless on 14 October 2015, 22:25:46
Or "The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone"?

I like this one!  ;D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 15 October 2015, 01:25:08

Wolf Empire: Trueborn Incest at Its Best
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Deadborder on 15 October 2015, 08:04:51
Wolf Empire: Like Amaris but with orange dog faces
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Deadborder on 15 October 2015, 18:47:16
Wolf Empire: No Sense Of Humour

Wolf Empire: Thread Titles as a form of Overcompensation

Wolf Empire: Now with less lapdog
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: SteveRestless on 15 October 2015, 20:42:50
Well, The dice were with Kitsune, you're safe from the title "Wolf Empire: No Falcons Allowed Club"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: rebs on 15 October 2015, 20:44:43
Wolf Empire: Nothing We Own Is Jade

Wolf Empire: Our Old Thread Can Go To The Horses!

Wolf Empire: AutoCanon/2  ;D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Fletch on 15 October 2015, 20:58:36
Wolf Empire: Flea treatments required before landing on Terra
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: rebs on 15 October 2015, 21:17:44
Ouch!  Good one.

OK...

Wolf Empire: Dog Returns To Vomit

 :D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Do we get to bark at the moon from relative proximity?
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 October 2015, 22:12:22
Well, The dice were with Kitsune, you're safe from the title "Wolf Empire: No Falcons Allowed Club"

How do you guys feel about Nascar Advertisements on your mechs? <3
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a MadCat MK IV. Buy MadCat MKIV's
Post by: Deadborder on 15 October 2015, 22:20:43
Except, of course, Canoncically, Devlin Stone remains unbeaten as yet.

So for all you know, things could end with his Atlas II smooshing Alaric under its foot. Which would be hillarious, mind...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a MadCat MK IV. Buy MadCat MKIV's
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 October 2015, 22:22:56
Except, of course, Canoncically, Devlin Stone remains unbeaten as yet.

So for all you know, things could end with his Atlas II smooshing Alaric under its foot. Which would be hillarious, mind...

Canonically? Maybe not.

But at the gaming table it is true enough! Savage Wolves for everybody! Pay up! Woo. *Confetti Cannons*
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Got Squished By a Giant Konkerdong! Maybe!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 October 2015, 22:41:55
Hey, I'd buy a Mad Cat Mk IV regardless.

Meanwhile, Alaric going squish remains a just as viable (and still hillarious) option. Allways cloudy, the future is (until it's written down and released). Or, for that matter, the invasion of Fortress Republic being an utter fasilure that leads to the destruction of all things Wolf. We can but wait and see.

Meanwhile, have you considered a Vulture Mk IV upgrade incentive package?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 October 2015, 00:59:52
We haven't been able to figure out how to make a vulture mk Iv, despite its name, resemble a bird!

Anyways. It's important to remember the whole thing is in good fun. I think clan players should trial each other over silly things. But we don't want to actually belittle anyone or leave any hard feelings.

At the end of the day the us versus them is always battle tech players and non battle tech players.

So everybody have fun...

And buy a savage wolf.

http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8517
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Spenetrator on 16 October 2015, 07:38:48
Sooo... What's the source of the Wolves as ilclan / fall of the RotS chatter?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Flieger on 16 October 2015, 08:08:28
There is nothing on the Wolves becoming the IlClan, but there will be an IlClan and the Republic will fall - it seems:

ilClan
The ilClan is a campaign-driven overview of the universe-spanning conflict that will see the fall of The Republic of the Sphere and the final conclusion of the Dark Age era. The founding of the ilClan heralds the start of a new age for the BattleTech universe—one that will forever transform the Inner Sphere and Clans alike!

http://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Spenetrator on 16 October 2015, 08:17:38
Ah shoot. So Mad Malvina could still swing it...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 16 October 2015, 08:22:43
Pretty much. It's a lot of baseless speculation and wishful thinking on the part of the Wolf players; acting as if it was a given or had allready happened or the like.

Right now, it could be anything. With Ben Rome writing and Catalysts habit of surprising outcomes, I'd take nothing for granted
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 16 October 2015, 08:26:33
Well, there was also that canon event at GenCon a few years back that featured the Wolves fighting the Republic in Unity City, during which Alaric and Devlin dueled and Alaric won. However, my recollection is that CGL has since walked it back somewhat and said its canonicity is somewhat hazy.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 16 October 2015, 08:33:34
I will laugh my arse off if ilClan doesn't result in the "we assured ourselves this would happen two years ago" Wolf victory
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Fletch on 16 October 2015, 08:55:40
Sooo... What's the source of the Wolves as ilclan / fall of the RotS chatter?

Fanboi-ism  O:-)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 October 2015, 09:44:52
Ah shoot. So Mad Malvina could still swing it...

Eh. The consensus from Clan Sea Fox players is that becoming Ilclan is the worst thing that could happen to you.

So a year or two ago there was a book outline for april fools outlined by Ben Rome where Clan Wolf became Ilclan... and had a bunch of stuff in it that was my worst nightmare.

Also Gencon's description for their battletech event gave up the ghost and said that Devlin Stone and Alaric were going to duke it out for Terra.

Since then we've learned that the Republic Walls have come down.

It is possible and my suspicion is that the Gencon announcement was a gaffe and wasn't supposed to be released so early. Though it could also have been exactly what they wanted. If it was a gaffe then it could have required a re-write on the future story. On the other hand the Lead Product Designer has changed since then. With Herb stepping down. And that is after the 'Future of Battletech' post that threw everybody into a wild panic. (http://bg.battletech.com/news/battleblog/what-the-future-holds/ a quick recap if you would like to panic!!!!!) So it is hard to know if the previous plans are still the future plans.

More fun. (https://benhrome.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/ilclan-and-beyond/) and finally the outline (https://benhrome.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/the-supremacy-rises/)

So what evidence I don't have is the sidebar at Gencon talking about the event. But other than that. You now know everything that we know.

So what is happening in the thread?

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that, unless they changed things, which is incredibly possible, Clan Wolf will invade Terra. If I remember correctly events had already been written so the outcome of the battle at Gencon wasn't supposed to change much. Maybe names. But it has been a long time between then and now.

What do you need to know?

You're a Clan Wolf fan. Who knows how many years that you've liked Clan Wolf. You've got a pretty big emotional investment in seeing them be the big winners. Clan Jade Falcon has been the loyal opposition for years. They've got a pretty big emotional investment in seeing Clan Wolf not be the big winners.

So the important thing is to remember that even though we're all fake enemies here that the other sides got real people too and everyones feelings are equally important. So fake fight on. But don't get to wrapped up in it.

Good luck on Terra. Bring a Savage Wolf.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: GreekFire on 16 October 2015, 11:19:06
Good luck on Terra. Bring a Savage Wolf.

But not just any Savage Wolf. The battle at Unity City demands nothing less than one of our new limited-edition Savage Wolves, entirely electroplated in now extremely rare Gibson gold! And the prices of our advanced, high-quality XXL engine have never been lower! There's never been a better time to buy!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Spenetrator on 16 October 2015, 13:21:05
Amen. I wouldn't want the Falcons to get too badly beat up, or where's the fun!

Now the peace-mongering republicans of the sphere... They need squashing under my savage wolf's electroplated-in-Gibson-gold heel
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Spenetrator on 16 October 2015, 13:22:58
As a Wolf Exiles fan I definitely shouldn't think that but...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 October 2015, 15:50:24
Now the peace-mongering republicans of the sphere... They need squashing under my savage wolf's electroplated-in-Gibson-gold heel

 ;D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: WarGod on 16 October 2015, 16:28:29
so how was the trip to terra? by the way I "aquired" one of your warwolfs in my ghostbears cluster.  rather snazzy ride. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 16 October 2015, 18:43:58
so how was the trip to terra? by the way I "aquired" one of your warwolfs in my ghostbears cluster.  rather snazzy ride.

We don't know yet.. :(
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: rebs on 18 October 2015, 11:32:28
Eh. The consensus from Clan Sea Fox players is that becoming Ilclan is the worst thing that could happen to you.

As a Sea Fox fan (I still am), I have to say I prefer to think of it as our time-honored strategy of letting other Clans do the brutal work of opening up new markets for trade with our Clan (markets who also thirst for high-ticket war machines that we specialize in).  This is something we have been happily doing since 3050, and I see no change in it. 

As for this ilClan nonsense, I would specify for myself:  Once the hard work is done, it's going to be much easier for the next Clan to attempt to wrest the title of ilClan after a hollow victory on Terra.  The head that wears the crown gets no rest in this game that the Clans are playing.  They have to contend with each other, but also with the Great Houses, who surround them and will be watching.

Slow Rollers often slow-roll their selves, after all.  To bring in another gaming analogy. 

I don't know if the leaders of any of the Clans are smart enough to achieve their own originally stated victory conditions for ilClan and still survive the relentless march of time and the tidal-like cycles of war and peace in the IS. 

But there will be BattleTech, that's for sure.  No matter the outcome.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 18 October 2015, 18:13:42
Are there any Wolves in here or is this a kick the Wolves page.Its fun listening to the comments though  [watch]
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 18 October 2015, 19:09:26
Yes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 18 October 2015, 19:26:43
Sooo... What's the source of the Wolves as ilclan / fall of the RotS chatter?

The Case for ilClan Wolf.

(1) Position - Clan Wolf's new empire is aimed right at the heart of the republic.  They're closer, and their troops are positioned for combat against that foe. The falcons are almost as close, but not quite.

(2) Probability - The Wolves are in one of the better states to conquer in such a fashion. The Falcons lost the Horses, and now have to contend with them on one front, the Lyrans on another, and if they misstep they might have to worry about the bears as well. The horses are too far away, and too bloodied from their unfortunate alliance with the Falcons. I expect their focus is on rebuilding and capitalizing on their gains within the former Wolf OZ. The Sea Foxes aren't poised to take it, and they're happy doing what they're doing already, selling guns to anybody who wants em. The Bears are already cozied up with the FRR, and I expect we'd see them bulking up if they intended to do more than homestead with their FRR buddies. The Exile Wolves seem to be occupied with the task of "not dying to the falcons" and the Nova Cats seem to be busy "being dead at the hands of the dragon." The Spirit Cats who survive are in a similar position as the Exile Wolves, surviving rather than dominating. Clan Wolf, meanwhile has quite a bit of conquest momentum, the potential means to invade earth once the fortress is solved, and the desire to.

(3) Meta Knowlege: 2013's Gencon Battle was CWF v.s. ROTS on Terra Itsself with a side-battle between Alaric's own forces and Stone's own. - The Wolves Won. No guaranteee of a wolf /victory/ on terra but a pretty good sign that there will be a wolf/republic fight on the soil of humanity's homeworld. Ultimately these battles are not binding in any fashion, but that such a battle ever occurred in the first place seems indicative of TPTB's Likely direction. Further evidence in favor is that 2014's Gencon Diorama showed Clan Wolf taking Unity City. Again, not a guarantee, but I've never heard of them comissioning a diorama for an event that didn't/won't happen.

(4) Meta Knowlege: the "Free Taiw... St Ives" April Fools Day PDF - AFD PDFs have foreshadowed things before. the Project Omega AFD PDF showed us a Superheavy mech (which we eventually got in the form of the omega), foreshadowed Marthe Pryde's death, and if one believes the potential WoB/Wolverine correlation, it hints at that as well.  So, we have here a PDF that shows us a future ruled by a Third Star League, ruled by "Clan Wolfhound."  The whole document seems to possibly hint at a Wolf-Led Third Star League.

(5) Winson - There is a mystery around Jennifer Winson's true identity.  There is a fair degree of likelyhood as hinted at in some of the historical documents we've seen lately that she is a Cameron, or a Cameron-Amaris. The wolves retain her legacy. This would be the means to reboot the ruling line via the breeding program. This is something only the Wolves, Wolves in Exile and Coyotes would be fully in the know and capable of.

(6) Meta-Historical - The Republic has a Roman thing going. Alaric's Historical Namesake sacked Rome.

(7) Mobile Assets - Clan Wolf recently relocated their best manufacturing capacity, and their best scientific and engineering personnel and its possible they could uproot those mobile factories and relocate them to Terra.

(8) I don't have it handy, but in one of the star league era sourcebooks, someone, I believe a cameron had a quote about "dark days when wolves stalk terra" which I think is intended as forshadowing.

I will laugh my arse off if ilClan doesn't result in the "we assured ourselves this would happen two years ago" Wolf victory

and I promise that if you don't stop clogging up the wolf thread with this sort of thing, that when the wolves DO take terra, you will never hear the end of it. We get it. You don't think it's likely. That's swell, but some of us do think it is and we'd like to discuss it without you butting in. Please stop.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 18 October 2015, 22:16:31
I figured that I'd never hear the end of it anyway, especially given that you've been endlessly braying about it for two years now as if it had allready happened.

But here's the thing. My posting suggestions that the Wolves could be defeated or that Alaric could be squished by a Giant Konkerdong or whatever else are just as legitimate and just as valid content for this thread as anything else. I have just as much rigt to post in this thread and voice my opinions in this thread as anyone else.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 October 2015, 22:28:01
Tukayyid 2.0. Fight for earth on earth. Stone versus Alaric.
Sea Fox Clarke versus computer replica of Lear.
Malvina versus Tucker Harwell. Cage Match!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 18 October 2015, 22:30:41
If you're here to taunt the Wolf fans, get out of the thread please. Discussion is one thing, trolling is another. We're not quite over that line yet, but let's not get there.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 18 October 2015, 22:40:49
Seriously, though; my intent has never been to deliberately troll or harass. I am just here to discuss and and offer alternative opinions or viewpoints. I have never attacked anyone else, and I have never intended to taunt or provoke a response.

My only aim here is to discuss and have fun.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 18 October 2015, 22:45:04
But here's the thing. My posting suggestions that the Wolves could be defeated or that Alaric could be squished by a Giant Konkerdong or whatever else are just as legitimate and just as valid content for this thread as anything else. I have just as much right to post in this thread and voice my opinions in this thread as anyone else.

Isn't that kind of the ultimate concession, though? You're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally against the rules to express it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 October 2015, 22:55:36
I get it. If I was a falcon fan and the opposition was going to Win I'd be around to tell them that at least it hasn't happened yet.

But maybe that's a discussion for a "Clan Wolf Ilclan' thread. They definitely don't need their thunder stolen in their own thread. I'm sure the Falcons will be crowing about whatever happened to the exiles soon and you don't want wolf fans coming to the falcon thread to tell you to stop.

Also, Hellbie's warning totally dropped after one of the funniest things I've said on these forums in awhile. Talk about stealing thunder.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 18 October 2015, 23:00:45
Hmm. In that outline Arc Royal also falls. Clan Wolf in Exile relocates to Mellisia...

Hmmm...... (But to the Hell's Horses)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 18 October 2015, 23:06:37
It would be difficult for them to relocate to Melissia these days, given that it's in the Falcon OZ.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 18 October 2015, 23:09:46
It would be difficult for them to relocate to Melissia these days, given that it's in the Falcon OZ.

The Exiles realised a bit too late that their plan did have one key flaw.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 18 October 2015, 23:23:20
I just wanted to say, as someone who doesn't really have a dog in this fight (pun most definitely intended), I think that is indeed worth discussing the possible non-ilClan plot directions the Wolf Empire could take. While as a neutral observer I think the Wolves ending up ilClan is highly likely (mostly for the reasons Steve previously outlined), I don't think it is by any means guaranteed, and alternative outcomes should be explored and discussed. That being said, making constant cracks about Alaric getting squished does absolutely nothing to move us closer to that conversation.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 18 October 2015, 23:39:19
I've still yet to have a satisfying discussion on how the wolves might achieve ilClanship that hasn't morphed into whether or not it WILL happen, and I'd still love to chat about that sometime, but yeah, I'm amenable to discussing other directions it could go.

From a meta-perspective, it'd be kindof dull if they just sat idle. They'd have traded an occupation zone surrounded on all sides and beset by asymmetric attack by foes, for a larger empire, surrounded on all sides and beset by asymmetric aggressions by some of the same foes and a few new ones. Just holding the line against the republic and the others means that for all they've moved locations, they'll just be treading water and have essentially done nothing, despite moving.

Probably won't be to move to against the Clan Protectorate, not with the sea foxes captaining that. Might growl back in that direction, if the raids we've been hearing up get too frequent, but I don't think they're going to move to absorb or annhilate it. And they just ended aggressions with the FWL.

If they don't head for Terra, I guess the most likely outcome is moving on the Falcons. Malvina is too large a threat to be ignored if their attention isn't on the center of the sphere.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 19 October 2015, 00:14:16
I know the popular belief is that Alaric's claim to the Archonship of the Lyran Commonwealth is purely a political ploy, but given that the Commonwealth seems to be teetering on the edge of the abyss, perhaps the Wolves will complete the defenestration of House Steiner and Alaric will plant his furry butt on the throne for good.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 19 October 2015, 00:54:59
I doubt he can get them to recognize his right, but ultimately, even if he does, doesn't that just mean they're back against the falcons later, rather than sooner?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 October 2015, 01:19:56
To be honest, the title of the thread is a little... incendiary. Not trying to cause trouble, just saying.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 19 October 2015, 01:43:25
Sadly, I lost the naming rights trial this time. Title's out of my hands.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 October 2015, 08:24:38
To be honest, the title of the thread is a little... incendiary. Not trying to cause trouble, just saying.

It was about the only thread title that received approval from the mainstream wolf fans (I am a wolf fan. But I am a Sea Fox.) Any thread title will do. Sea Fox possession rights just mean if we can insert a cute non offensive advertisement we will.

On the other hand, at the Gencon event their Khan did beat Devlin Stone in a savage wolf... and it hasn't really changed your actions Deadborder. You are upset that the Wolves think they may become Ilclan despite the evidence that they may become Ilclan.

I think we need to take a look at the fact that this is just a game and if a group of fans want to be proud that they accomplished, or may accomplish something we need to leave it be.

If they were in the falcon thread telling you that Malina hadn't accomplished some thing it would obviously he unacceptable behavior.

I am willing to change the title of the thread. If you want to make the argument that it's inflammatory for a Republic player then I could see it be an issue. If False Son was upset it would be totally understandable.

But if a Falcon Player is upset that the Wolves might become Ilclan then it is unhealthy behavior. We are one community on the battle tech forum. We aren't wolf fans and falcon fans. We are battle tech fans and we really, really don't need anything more than friendly rivalries.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Fletch on 19 October 2015, 08:27:22
Yep buy Savage Wolves and bash Alaric around the head with one.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 October 2015, 08:42:26
Open for thread title suggestions. Rules: No Wolf teasing. No negative suggestions. That was never the point. We are adults. We CAN have fun without hurting other people's feelings.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 19 October 2015, 10:15:07
I know the popular belief is that Alaric's claim to the Archonship of the Lyran Commonwealth is purely a political ploy, but given that the Commonwealth seems to be teetering on the edge of the abyss, perhaps the Wolves will complete the defenestration of House Steiner and Alaric will plant his furry butt on the throne for good.

Since Alaric technically has claims to both the Elsie and FedRat halves of the sundered FedCom, my 2-bit tin-foil hat theory is that Alaric turns Terra over to Anastasia Kerensky and some Cameron leader bred off-stage from Exile Winson stock, he keeps going with Terra's resources now behind him, and he conquers what is left of FedSuns after the Cappies and Snakes have had their way with it.  At some point, a good portion of the Lyran map also gets consolidated under Alaric's paw, most of the competing Davion and Steiner lines are wiped out (accidentally or by order), and krazy Katherine has her revenge -- it's her line that sits on the two FedCom thrones for some generations to come.

The fly in this theory is that Victor S-D renounced any claim to the throne for his children.  But I'm not sure a vatborn kid bred without Vic's knowledge counts as his child, and Alaric and his Wolves won't care either way.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 19 October 2015, 10:21:01
To be honest, the title of the thread is a little... incendiary.

Incendiary would be "Wolf Empire: We Promise Not to Drop Warships on Our Allies".

The current thread title is just factual (at least in one GenCon tournament version of the universe), except where it pokes fun at the Wolf Clan with its humorous overselling of the Savage Wolf.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rtifs on 19 October 2015, 13:37:00
The current thread title is just factual (at least in one GenCon tournament version of the universe), except where it pokes fun at the Wolf Clan with its humorous overselling of the Savage Wolf.

Is the savage wolf bad?  I'm not a huge fan of the rear mounted weapons in the prime, but it does have dual ERPPCs and ferro-lamellor.. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 19 October 2015, 13:39:36
Is the savage wolf bad?  I'm not a huge fan of the rear mounted weapons in the prime, but it does have dual ERPPCs and ferro-lamellor..

The main issue is with the engine.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 October 2015, 13:59:46
Is the savage wolf bad?  I'm not a huge fan of the rear mounted weapons in the prime, but it does have dual ERPPCs and ferro-lamellor..

The Savage Wolf is amazing.

The problem is that the Savage Wolf isn't as amazing as the Mad Cat. So where the Mad Cat is the most optimized 75 ton mech in the game, the Savage Wolf... isn't.

It has Ferro-Lamellar armor, which is nice. But it has too many engine crit boxes and because of the way XXL engines create heat it becomes heat inefficient.

So in a fight against the original Timber Wolf it's got about a 45% chance to win.

The Timber Wolf isn't supposed to be in production anymore but because of a throw away line in one of the products its still kind of hanging on for dear life.

Alaric Wolf and Anastasia Kerensky pilot a Savage Wolf so its pretty popular in Clan Wolf.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 19 October 2015, 14:10:33
The Salvage Wolf is a sea fox plot to sell maintenance contracts. It's got this fancy tech on it, but mostly winds up being no more durable or long-lasting for it. Winds up being a warmer-than-average timber wolf at the end of the day.

The Wolf Mech you wanna use with FerroLam armor, is the Orion C. We don't even have official stats for it yet and STILL I feel confident in saying this. I've approximated it from the TRO3150 text about it, and I love it already. The Mad Dog IV isn't bad for Ferrolam either. Atleast so long as its pilot doesn't try something like using the prime's LBX pellets against another FL armored mech.  ;)

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 October 2015, 14:15:48
The Salvage Wolf is a sea fox plot to sell maintenance contracts. It's got this fancy tech on it, but mostly winds up being no more durable or long-lasting for it. Winds up being a warmer-than-average timber wolf at the end of the day.

The Wolf Mech you wanna use with FerroLam armor, is the Orion C. We don't even have official stats for it yet and STILL I feel confident in saying this. I've approximated it from the TRO3150 text about it, and I love it already. The Mad Dog IV isn't bad for Ferrolam either. Atleast so long as its pilot doesn't try something like using the prime's LBX pellets against another FL armored mech.  ;)

The Orion C is some kind of monster. Thrashed my poor Vulture. Need a rematch on that one. The real answer of a Ferro-lam trooper that is great is the Vulture IV though. tough little guy. great trooper. The Savage Wolf is a long range fire support mech now.

What is a good buy is the Bunker II I mean, Mad Cat II with ferro-lam. I parked it in some tree's because that's as good of a defense modifier as it was going to get and it went to work.

Wendigo's are also great products. I'm very impressed.

Steve even told me those LB-x pellets weren't doing anything but I took such a long break from Battletech I kept sanding away. Actually when I realized that the Orion IIC had Ferro-lamellar armor I was in bad shape. The SRM + LBX Vulture couldn't hurt it. I hope there are more Vulture IV canon configs in the pipe soon.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 19 October 2015, 15:41:50
booo Salvage wolfs. The only thing savage about them is the explosion they make when you take out a side torso  ;)

 If your having troubles against the Orion C,just do what i do...Punch it in the mouth with a Karhu.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 19 October 2015, 17:24:18
I'm also a Republic fan and player. They're my favourite IS faction. So yeah, I'd say that counts.

I've got about a 90% win rate of Mad Cat Mk IVs vs Mad Cats. The few times the original Mad Cat won usually came about due to something like a massive headshot that's pretty much in the "this could happen to anyone" category. True, my very first victory for the Cat IV also fell under the "ER PPC to the Face" rule, but the point stands.

The FL armour makes a world of difference. You're immune to LBX clusters, you halve the effect of SRMs, you turn 10-point headshooters with the risk of a crit into 8-point "not quite" hits which is a massive improvement.

And hey, you can thank Vlad for the Mad Cat's near death. He's the Sea Foxes greatest hero!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 19 October 2015, 20:35:43
Its fun watching this.Is there just two Wolves in this thread.We usually have a roll call by now?
   Kitsune413 are we going to have a roll call for the Wolves.?Just curious  [watch]
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 October 2015, 21:12:56
It's a new thread so maybe it doesn't show up on updated threads. Revival trials came out and then thr Widowmaker sourcebook came out not to long ago but for anybody interested in new battletech or Ilclan it's been two years since the story has gone anywhere.

3150 has some snippets and that generated some new posts in each thread. But most people have already seen the mechs.

Handbook House Kurita came out this year but everything else is an XTRO or a turning point.

The good news is that they really seem to have everything in order now and the new harebrained schemes game might be a good cross promotional product. So the bright side is that everything may get better soon. But the negative side is that people haven't had a lot to get excited about.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: rebs on 19 October 2015, 21:48:39
It shows up alright.

I'm a Wolf fan, by virtue of being an Ulric Kerensky fan.  Just to be clear.

But I like the Jade Falcons too.  I see both sides of the debate, mostly.  Malvina has me wondering, but at least she's bringing excitement to the universe in her own special atrocious way.

But now we have the Wolves led by the B. Son of Every Clanner* and Spheroid Nightmare come to life and power.  It's attractive plot... but I wonder what's the catch?  Is this how the IlClan struggle begins?  I guess so.  If what we think we know is even half correct.


*Not the Homies.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 19 October 2015, 22:14:27
I like the Falcons Emblem and I like the Falcons mechs. Summoners, thors and Kit Foxes are adorable. I don't care for their bird totem mech. But they just aren't liberal enough for me. Which put Clan Wolf in the lead by a mile for me.

But I've used the name Kitsune for far more than the majority of my life so I have a fox totem spirit. But by the time of the Jihad the Diamond Sharks were already becoming impossible to ignore.

I like the Falcons. I pretty much like all of the remaining clans and there were only some home clans I didn't like before. The Falcons don't chew on their own spent bullet casings as much as the Smoke Jaguars did though. So for me the crazy conservative clan of choice are those dead guys.

Anyways. This isn't the, "What do Sea Foxes think of other clans?" Thread. This is the Wolf Thread.

The title is up for consideration. Gotta get the Wolves and the Sea Fox PR guys in on it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: False Son on 20 October 2015, 12:56:47
It's attractive plot... but I wonder what's the catch?

Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed?  You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?

Assuming that he does...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 October 2015, 13:06:00
Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed?  You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?

Assuming that he does...

I do. Wait? Is it 3052? No. Nevermind.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 20 October 2015, 13:13:00
I'm a Wolf fan, by virtue of being an Ulric Kerensky fan.  Just to be clear

Yeah. Ulric is my favorite magnificent bastard in the series. Well. And Focht. Those two are a Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman movie.

Quote
But I like the Jade Falcons too.  I see both sides of the debate, mostly.  Malvina has me wondering, but at least she's bringing excitement to the universe in her own special atrocious way.

Malvina versus Tucker Harwell in the cage!!! Tune in 3155!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 20 October 2015, 20:24:28
Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed?  You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?

Assuming that he does...

Not in the slightest!

All I expect it will mean is "This Clan has Conquered Terra, and gets the bragging rights of having conquered Terra."

I don't expect the other clans to do anything other than for one to try and dispute their claim immediately after. I don't think it means they're king of the clans and get to start bossing the others around, I don't think it'll mean the fight is over, but I do think that they'll have the biggest baddest bragging rights in all of clandom.

Terra is worth having for virtue of being Terra, not because it magically makes all the other clans listen to you (which would be ridiculous). One look at how little the Council of Six has ever accomplished shows how much it's going to mean as far as commanding other clans (not a damn thing).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: GarageBay9 on 20 October 2015, 21:07:31
Its fun watching this.Is there just two Wolves in this thread.We usually have a roll call by now?
   Kitsune413 are we going to have a roll call for the Wolves.?Just curious  [watch]

There are technically three, but none of them send me Founder's Day cards anymore.  Cheapskates refuse to cough up postage to the ARDC.

(...and I forgot to leave a forwarding address when we evacuated.   #P)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rtifs on 21 October 2015, 09:26:43
Actually, I think the title of Ilclan would mean something.  I think the Hell’s Horses would fall in line.  Probably the Ghost Bears as long as the leader is not totally crazy.  And I think the Sea Foxes and Snow Ravens would acknowledge the new Ilkhan – though politically and militarily they’ve both faded to irrelevance.

So I think it comes down to the Jade Falcons and Wolves.  Alaric would probably try to assassinate and replace any new Ilkhan, and Malvina would go nuts.  Literally only over her dead body – and I don’t see the Bears or Wolves following her.  So she would have to straight-up win a war with those clans to enforce her claim. 

As painful as it is for me to say, I think, the way the characters have been presented in the novels, that Alaric is the only Ilclan candidate with the vision to rule the IS.  He was raised clan, and understands the culture, but sees himself as above the clans.  I could see Alaric claiming Ilclan, and then using that position to convince the great houses into acknowledging him as first lord of a new star league.  Of course there’s always the possibility of a major plot twist, so who knows…
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 21 October 2015, 10:18:51
Politically and militarily the Sea Foxes and Snow Ravens are Irrelevant?

The Snow Ravens are making territorial gains and if you are waging war in the Inner Sphere you are strengthening Clan Sea Foxes military and political power. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention since 3130... but... everyone is at war.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rtifs on 21 October 2015, 12:30:46
Allow me to expand and clarify my remarks.  And bear in mind I’m not trying to upset anyone. 

I understand that the Sea Foxes are making money.   But militarily they are dispersed through the IS to protect their caravans.  I don’t see a way for them to seriously help or hinder a claimant to the Ilclan-ship.  They aren’t going to bribe their way to the top after all.

Same for the Ravens.  They have taken some planets from the FedSuns, but being so isolated from the rest of the clans, they are more likely to be one of the periphery nations conquered in the next reunification war than having any influence over the Ilclan-ship or next Star League. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 21 October 2015, 13:56:00
The Sea Foxes are already stated as assisting the Wolves, not through military might, but supplying them mechs. And really, that's the best thing they can do to help them. It wouldn't really count for bragging rights if the Wolves didn't take Terra themselves. If they acknowlege the Wolves as ilClan (which I suspect they would at least consider, if they could see some advantage in it(such as getting some Terran Real-estate)) I still don't see it being a "we become totally subservient" thing.

OTOH, if we read the April Fools Day ilClan Outline non-literally, it could foreshadow the Sea Foxes becoming the mercantile branch of the ilClan's Third Star League.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 21 October 2015, 17:50:51
Yeah. What a terrible way for a clan to die.

As far as becoming Ilclan is concerned Alaric is the one who put that in everyones head to begin with as a ruse to move Clan Wolf to the Wolf Empire. But now that everybody has pressed within jumping distance how would Clan Sea Fox become Ilclan? We would take our fleets and go there. Whether it is likely that we would or not is another story. But Clan Sea Fox can pretty easily land it's clusters on Terra. All of our clusters are in everyone else's territory anyways.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 22 October 2015, 01:08:06
I understand that the Sea Foxes are making money.   But militarily they are dispersed through the IS to protect their caravans.  I don’t see a way for them to seriously help or hinder a claimant to the Ilclan-ship.  They aren’t going to bribe their way to the top after all.

Same for the Ravens.  They have taken some planets from the FedSuns, but being so isolated from the rest of the clans, they are more likely to be one of the periphery nations conquered in the next reunification war than having any influence over the Ilclan-ship or next Star League.

Between the Foxes' arcships and the Ravens' warships, I'd be surprised if they don't both play a significant role in bringing the ilClan to power.  Mobile military manufacturing would be a great asset for upping the pace of and sustaining an invasion.  And the importance of the only substantial warship fleet left outside the Clan Homeworlds can't be underestimated.

We know Anastasia has worked at least one Khanate -- some of the others almost certainly for sale.  And the Ravens would probably welcome a alliance that grants them access to the kinds of resources they have to scrounge for in the Outworlds.

From Alaric's perspective, I'd argue that the Foxes and Ravens are the most important and most likely Clans the Wolves would cooperate with to take the Republic and Terra (if that's how the ilClan comes about).  The Horses can always be sicced on the Falcons to keep the Wolves' traditional enemies sidelined, and the Bears just have to not be angered to keep them inward-looking.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: rebs on 22 October 2015, 08:02:25
Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed?  You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?

Assuming that he does...

Really?

The IlClan premise is rather straight forward like that, and I have no other information to lead me to think that PeaceTech was going to break out on Terra after Alaric Ward Steiner Davion claims suzerainty over the other Clans, as indicated by the "IlKhan for life" part of the IlClan in-universe concept. 

And I so have been looking forward to the struggle to come. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: rebs on 22 October 2015, 08:20:36
Walked the niece to school.  Walking is good for me and my thoughts, I think I mentioned that somewhere...  ;D

Alaric Ward may not come to Terra thinking of claiming the mantle of the IlClan for his Wolves.  But if Malvina decides that that must be what he's going to do, then it does not matter.  The IlClan struggle is on because it only takes one unhinged person to want to control everything to make everyone's life a living hell through war.

This is just one possible example. 

All I'm saying is I don't think the IlClanship is going to be just a race towards Terra.  It will be the greed and ambition of human beings that throw everyone else into war due to the laws of competition and instable personalities who hold power.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: False Son on 22 October 2015, 10:03:26
All I'm saying is I don't think the IlClanship is going to be just a race towards Terra.  It will be the greed and ambition of human beings that throw everyone else into war due to the laws of competition and instable personalities who hold power.

Just saying, being proud of a victory that has yet to be detailed is getting ahead of yourselves, Wolves.  Things might not turn out as glamorous as some people might believe.

Now every one try not to get swept out to sea on my vague wave.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 22 October 2015, 14:06:10
Just saying, being proud of a victory that has yet to be detailed is getting ahead of yourselves, Wolves.  Things might not turn out as glamorous as some people might believe.

Now every one try not to get swept out to sea on my vague wave.

Here's the thing. We've been left hanging on the edge of a narrative cliff for years now. It's been ages since the last big plot book came out. The flesh has been stripped from the bones, the bones have been cracked for their marrow, and we're left hungry. Speculation is about all anyone following the most current plot has at this point.

If I comment that "Wow, the Orion IIc is a 9 on the republic RAT in Capellan Crusades" it'll dissolve into an argument over how seriously one is supposed to take the RATs, rather than pursuing the more interesting tangent of "wtf is the republic doing with that many Orion IIcs when they've been a prestige-only ride in the wolves for ages." If I try and speculate on what the road to, and conquest of Terra might be like, it dissolves into arguments over whether the plot is even headed that direction or not, or whether it'll be glorious (and I'd argue that even if it leads to the total destruction of the wolves, that the warriors of the clans who do not fear death can seek no better a fate than dying in pursuit of holy Terra)...

and I'm left wondering, what would you have us do? Sit quietly and discuss nothing, let the thread languish without a peep? navelgaze over eras already in the bag? lament for the thirtieth time that the wolves are missing a good native-built medium omni?

No.

I want to hear what people think it WILL be like, fighting on the way in. What planets between the edge of the empire, and the glorious jewel of Terra will be the hardest to crack, what worthy spoils might await along the way. What do people think the fighting on Terra itsself will be like. Should things go like I'm anticipating, will we be facing both the falcons and the capellan confederation, or will the capellans be happy enough to see the republic shattered, and their ancestral holdings in their hands again?

Will mutual conflict against the CapCon strengthen the peace between an Empire that holds Terra and the Free Worlds League, or will there be strife on all borders?

Frankly, I personally look at the issue of the other clans not as "What other clans can be made to submit, once we take Terra?" but as "What other clans should we allow to join us in pursuit of a Third Star League?" "Who among the sphere clans is even worthy of this honor?" After all, Nicholas Kerensky did not found the clans by sheer force, he built them out of those WILLING to follow his vision.

THAT is the sort of conversation I'd like to see. Well, I'd like to discuss that Orion IIc thing too, but only if it doesn't dissolve into "RATs don't mean anything"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 October 2015, 15:48:03
The biggest part is cognitive dissonance. If you are a Wolf Fan you want to win Ilclan. You want to win.

If you are a Jade Falcon maybe you don't expect to win. It isn't like they have have ever been painted as a winning faction. But you don't want to lose and the Wolves winning Terra is like losing so you don't want that to happen.

If you are one of the two republic fans you don't want the Republic to die. So there is a good reason to not want Wolf players to jump to conclusions.

I remember once after Ben Rome's April fools outline came out someone asked me if Clan Sea Fox becoming the Merchant Caste for the Star Adders wouldn't be a good thing. Because you remember all of those times you deployed on the battlefield as an entirely merchant force in battletech.

People have got to square things in their own heads... and they will redo it once the real facts are out too. I wish the book would just come out soon so we could all fake war eachother. Then go through all of this again for whatever book was after that.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 October 2015, 16:15:49
From coming soon:
Quote
IlClan
The ilClan is a campaign-driven overview of the universe-spanning conflict that will see the fall of The Republic of the Sphere and the final conclusion of the Dark Age era. The founding of the ilClan heralds the start of a new age for the BattleTech universe—one that will forever transform the Inner Sphere and Clans alike!


The Republic definitely falls... and the wolves are definitely anecdotally on Terra.

So without the home clans swooping in that kind of leaves it down to three or four suspects.

Tukayyid 2.0! (Hazen vs Harwell! Cage match! Buy a savage wolf!)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Knightmare on 22 October 2015, 17:29:11
I complete forgot about that line. Hmm...now I wonder who the Republic falls to. Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 October 2015, 17:41:20
I complete forgot about that line. Hmm...now I wonder who the Republic falls to. Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.

We all know that Alaric isn't the only one with a conspicuous origin. Devlin Stone for Ilkhan for life! Clan Wolverine!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 22 October 2015, 19:51:15
I want to hear what people think it WILL be like, fighting on the way in. What planets between the edge of the empire, and the glorious jewel of Terra will be the hardest to crack, what worthy spoils might await along the way.

Using FM3145 to estimate the number of mechs on each side shows that the Wolves and Republic are either evenly matched or that the Wolves enjoy a large (but not overwhelming) advantage.

The Republic has the following number of mech battalions:

Hastati Sentinels: 7 brigades x 3 mech battalions = 21 mech battalions
Principes Guards:  6 bridades x 2 mech battalions = 12 mech battalions
Triarii Protectors:  5 brigades x 1 mech battalion = 5 mech battalions
Stone's Brigade:  6 brigades x 3 mech battalions = 18 mech battalions
Total Republic = 56 mech battalions

And depending on how many mechs per battalion, the Republic fields ~2000-2500 mechs.

36 mechs per battalion = 2016 mechs total
40 mechs per battalion = 2240 mechs total
40 mechs per battalion plus regimental command companies = 2528 mechs total

The Wolves have 75 clusters, and depending on the average number of mechs per cluster, field 2200-3800 mechs.

75 clusters x 30 mechs per cluster = 2250 mechs total
75 clusters x 45 mechs per cluster = 3375 mechs total
75 clusters x 50 mechs per cluster = 3750 mechs total

So at the lower end of each side's range, the Republic and Wolves are evenly matched (at least in mechs in 3145).  But if the Wolves are back to traditional mech numbers in their clusters, they could outnumber the Republic in mechs by almost 2:1.

This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional).  But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war.  If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.

Quote
Frankly, I personally look at the issue of the other clans not as "What other clans can be made to submit, once we take Terra?" but as "What other clans should we allow to join us in pursuit of a Third Star League?" "Who among the sphere clans is even worthy of this honor?" After all, Nicholas Kerensky did not found the clans by sheer force, he built them out of those WILLING to follow his vision.

Most Clans have subfactions that could join a drive on Terra for one reason or another.  Most of the Horses are probably fed up with Malvina, and there is an element within the Falcons that has tried to depose her.  The Bears' Omega Galaxy arguably has an interest in the Republic and a border to secure when Fortress comes down.  And Fox Khanates could be bought.  Only the Ravens don't have a useful internal division that comes to mind.

Similarly, the Republic could bring some allies to bear, too, like the Northwind Highlanders, the Fidelis, the Remnant, and maybe some FedRat commands. 

Quote
What do people think the fighting on Terra itsself will be like.

Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline.  The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating.  Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere.  Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 22 October 2015, 20:26:01
Using FM3145 to estimate the number of mechs on each side shows that the Wolves and Republic are either evenly matched or that the Wolves enjoy a large (but not overwhelming) advantage.

This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional).  But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war.  If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.

I don't see the bears leaping in, They're happy playing house in Rasalhague from what I can tell. If they wanted Terra still, I think they'd already be there. The Falcons might, but they might also have some Horses to deal with. And by themselves, the horses don't really have an avenue to assault the republic from.

Still, the Republic is going to neCed more than parity to hold the Wolf at bay. The biggest threat to the wolves holdings, other than the RAF itsself, are the Falcons. Meanwhile, the Republic... well basically the only neighbors they have who aren't slavering for their life's blood are the Ghost Bears and the Federated Suns. The Republic has a rough troop parity with the Empire, but the Empire doesn't also have the Combine and Confederation gunning for them. This says to me that the elite of the Empire can be brought to focus on targets while the Republic's defenses are pressed from numerous sides

Most Clans have subfactions that could join a drive on Terra for one reason or another.  Most of the Horses are probably fed up with Malvina, and there is an element within the Falcons that has tried to depose her.  The Bears' Omega Galaxy arguably has an interest in the Republic and a border to secure when Fortress comes down.  And Fox Khanates could be bought.  Only the Ravens don't have a useful internal division that comes to mind.

What I was referring to, was less "inviting clans to join the attack on terra" but a matter for after Terra is taken. I do not think any clan is going to want to share the battle for terra. I think it'll be more of a question of who's fighting them for the chance, and will the Capellans be a threat.

Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline.  The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating.  Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere.  Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.

Hm. That's unfortunate if true.

Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.

then why invest two gencon features in depicting the Wolves on Terra?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Knightmare on 22 October 2015, 20:30:13
A massive misdirect.  }:)

Honestly, I'd be pretty happy to see Terra depopulated. She's been fought over enough. She could use a respite.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 22 October 2015, 20:34:35
A massive misdirect.  }:)

Meh, believe it when I see it. I'd buy one gencon of it, but not two. and not with the like... seven other reasons I listed upthread.

Honestly, I'd be pretty happy to see Terra depopulated. She's been fought over enough. She could use a respite.

It's a wargame. What else are people going to do over a unique objective? join hands around it and sing?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 October 2015, 21:41:06
It's a wargame. What else are people going to do over a unique objective? join hands around it and sing?

I'll sell it to you...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 October 2015, 21:44:41
In the Novels when the Wolf Empire sets up their feint the other clans follow suit to actually prepare to take Terra.

The Ghost Bears and the Falcons are competing.

The Ravens and the Hells Horses are the ones who can't get there without some crazy explanation.

Clan Sea Fox can get there. But do we want to?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: rebs on 23 October 2015, 08:39:55
I'll sell it to you...

"Face to face - with the man who sold the world"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rtifs on 23 October 2015, 08:49:10
…So at the lower end of each side's range, the Republic and Wolves are evenly matched (at least in mechs in 3145).  But if the Wolves are back to traditional mech numbers in their clusters, they could outnumber the Republic in mechs by almost 2:1.

This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional).  But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war.  If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.

Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline.  The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating.  Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere.  Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.

But the Wolves won’t bring all their clusters to bear.  So in practice, in a one-on-one fight they would probably be at a numerical disadvantage.  But the Republic is going to be hit from every direction at once, so it will fight at a huge disadvantage. 

As for Terra being depopulated.  I’m not sure I understand the fascination CGL has with apocalyptic wars.  When I first got into Battletech I just saw Terra as an unimportant neutral planet.  Everything important happened elsewhere.  I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: rebs on 23 October 2015, 09:15:01
As for Terra being depopulated.  I’m not sure I understand the fascination CGL has with apocalyptic wars.  When I first got into Battletech I just saw Terra as an unimportant neutral planet.  Everything important happened elsewhere.  I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status.

Terra *is* a trap.  But everyone slowly forgets that dynamic, allowing Terra to feed every few centuries.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 23 October 2015, 12:54:49
But the Wolves won’t bring all their clusters to bear. 

Hard to say.  The Wolves have pulled up stakes for greener pastures before, and they could do so again.  Once Fortress comes down, the Wolves could abandon their Empire and put all their chits on taking over the Republic and Terra.  Especially if they can have access to Fox arcship manufacturing for replacing/resupplying war material.

And even if the Wolves hold onto their current Empire, with the Lyrans on the ropes, the Leaguers fighting each other, and the likelihood that some or all of the Horses will go after the Falcons, the Wolves may not need to leave much behind to garrison their rear border.

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I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status.

Herb did not explain how or when Terra becomes depopulated or even whether that means just a downturn in the total population or a complete abandonment of the planet.  So it doesn't necessarily mean massive WMDs, but that's certainly a possible implication.  (And no way to know whether that event is even still part of a future story arc.)

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 23 October 2015, 13:28:55
Doesn't make a lot of sense to help someone be in tactical command of your war tribe. Maybe tlwe would help the Wolves if we could get considerable concessions out of it. But they would have to be quite considerable concessions.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 23 October 2015, 13:47:35
I hope Clan Wolf sends Merchant Xzibit to negotiate that deal,

Quote from:
"Yo, Clan Sea Fox. I heard you do not want any body to be the boss of you? But how about you give us big boats to conquer the earth so that we can be the boss of you?"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 23 October 2015, 13:50:14
Again, I doubt Clan Wolf is going to want direct assistance in the martial part of any such campaign to take Terra. If the foxes DO play a role, i bet you it will be a logistical/mercantile one, same as doing business with anyone else.

If you don't conquer it by yourself, you're not the ilClan. There can be only one.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 23 October 2015, 14:28:22
*sighs* Merchant Factor Xzibit. Come on wolves. I deserve far more laughs than I'm getting over here... should I start trading for them? ;D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 23 October 2015, 14:36:21
What can I say, it's a sohlama meme ;) Try it on the second-line forces.

I am in the market for some fast medium omnis though...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 23 October 2015, 14:51:06
You had better win the next trial of possession for naming rights...

If you will excuse me I'm going to go sell some medium omni-mechs in the shape of a bird to clan jade falcon. (They love that. You can sell them anything as long as it's bird shaped.)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 23 October 2015, 19:08:19
Scratch that. No longer in the market for new medium omnis.

Mmmm. Delicious Skinwalker.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 23 October 2015, 21:06:15
Is that from the XTRO?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 23 October 2015, 21:18:55
Is that from the XTRO?

It is. and it is OBSCENE.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 23 October 2015, 21:22:01
Doesn't make a lot of sense to help someone be in tactical command of your war tribe.

No command assumed, tactical or otherwise.  Just a deal to move these Fox arcships into position behind that Wolf invasion force over there and dedicate the bulk of their output to that Wolf invasion force over the next XX months.  Do that, and if the Wolf Empire succeeds in toppling the Republic, taking Terra and becoming ilClan, Clan Sea Fox gets the former Republic planets of A, B, C and X, Y, Z.  (Or something like that.)

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But they would have to be quite considerable concessions.

No doubt.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 23 October 2015, 21:26:19
Doesn't make any sense. The only reason for Clan Sea Fox to help Clan Wolf is if it seems like Clan Wolf will inevitably succeed at becoming Ilclan and that being Ilclan would have some semblance of power behind it.

In that situation then trying to get concessions to take control of Clan Wolf away makes sense.

But only in that situation. Otherwise it makes sense to try to become Ilclan yourself and actively sabotage Clan Wolves chances of success or just ignore the Ilclan entirely.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 24 October 2015, 02:52:04
Otherwise it makes sense to try to become Ilclan yourself

I dunno.  It's not clear to me that the Foxes are motivated in that direction.  They seem to want to make a buck and exercise economic power, not conquer territory and exercise political power.

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... just ignore the Ilclan entirely.

The Foxes are opportunistic.  They may ignore the ilClan when it suits them, but make deals when advantageous for them.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 24 October 2015, 05:15:47
The Foxes help anyone as long as they make a profit. It's as simple as that. And the Wolves are winning. Everyone likes to bet on winners.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 05:23:40
Standard divide and conquer means support the second most powerful entity to control the first.

Does that mean that the Foxes would support the stability producing, profit increasing Republic over the disruptive, disrespectful Wolves? Maybe the Falcons to keep the Wolves in check.

There is no reason for a Wolf IlClan to be good for the Foxes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 24 October 2015, 05:50:27
All the Wolves want are military hardware and those always make a better profit per shipping volume than sundry goods ordered by the "peaceful" Republic. They'll sell to both sides, but they won't stand in the way of Alaric.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 06:11:17
The Foxes are already selling the Wolves military hardware. The Wolves industry is so stuffed that a XXLed Cheetah is their primary ASF. The Wolves are being bankrolled by the Foxes as it is.

So what is the advantage for the  Foxes to get involved further? Heck as IlClan the Wolves would be in a position to do all sorts of bad things from a general consumption tax to cancelation of all debts.

The Foxes are merchants. No one likes them. If any Clan gets full control you can bet on a hardening of attitudes towards deviant behavior like a dominant merchant caste. Controlled chaos suits the Foxes better.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 October 2015, 09:49:52
The Ilclan gets the Ilkhan position permanently. The khan of the Ilclan is the ilkhan. He wouldn't have more power than the ground council, unless it is wartime and then he does.

It doesn't make sense to aid another clan to gain that amount of political power over you unless it looks like they are likely to succeed and you can negotiate semi-autonomy from the aid.

So if Alaric looks like he is going to sack Terra and is willing to take transportation or logistics aid in exchange for promising freedoms to clan sea fox it might be worth the investment...

But in almost, if not all, other situations it makes more sense to sabotage them.

Supporting the jade falcons is bad news because of their policies. But if the Ghost Bears are interested in a bid for Terra and you can get those freedom concessions out of them then send the bears in.

Or sack Terra yourself and just let it go.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 October 2015, 09:56:58
These Wolves are surprisingly quiet about XTRO Wolf Propoganda Republic III.

Except Steve about that Ryoken. He is going to be insufferable now...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 10:39:47
They have just acknowledged that their warriors need a crutch. Nothing to see here  O:-)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 24 October 2015, 10:51:04
Does that mean that the Foxes would support the stability producing, profit increasing Republic over the disruptive, disrespectful Wolves?

This theory would make sense if the Republic was currently a stabilizing force that undertook commerce with the Foxes.  But there's probably been little to no trade with the Republic in the umpety-ump years since the Fortress wall went up, and the Republic has been purposefully destabilizing its neighbors with raids beyond the Fortress wall.

Controlled chaos suits the Foxes better.

Stability?  Chaos?  Neither?  Both?

Probably both.  The Foxes need stability somewhere to support production.  But they need chaos somewhere else to create customers for their war material.

They'll sell to both sides

That likely is the one truism we can be sure of when it comes to the Foxes.

If the right deal is struck, the prospect of the ilClan taking over Terra and other Republic worlds offers the Foxes access to amounts of raw materials, advanced technologies, and trade pacts that they probably cannot get any other way.  At least, that's what I would offer the Foxes in exchange for their arcships at the rear of my invasion, were I in the future ilKhan's shoes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 24 October 2015, 10:59:05
These Wolves are surprisingly quiet about XTRO Wolf Propoganda Republic III

The potential implications of the fluff are arguably probably bigger than the designs themselves.  The Horses are supplying the Wolves with interface cockpits (or the technology), the Wolves are sharing the Skinwalker with the Ravens, the Foxes appear to be acting as go-betweens, and the Bears and Ravens are gearing up invasion-oriented warship production.  It's like the Council of Six finally figured out kindergarten lessons about cooperation.

And unless I missed a passage, the Falcons are conspicuous by their absence.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 11:11:17
Um. It barely says any of that.

It says the Horses trialed DI back in the 3080s. The Wolves had 50 years to notice and aquire it themselves. The Foxes are mentioned because they aquire everything. The Ravens are mentioned because they used to build Storm Crows and the Wolves didn't. It is specifically said later that the Ravens aren't rich enough to exploit DI. Throw an expensive WarShip on top of that and I see some exaggeration there.

The Bears and Ravens are playing their own games as known constructors of WarShips. It is a leap to connect this to the Wolves. Why would the Bears cooperate with the Wolves if the Wolves end game is IlClanship?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 24 October 2015, 13:00:49
Except Steve about that Ryoken. He is going to be insufferable now...

Ssssh. Just relax and let the skinwalker do its magic. its hideously expensive magic.   :D

As for whether the Foxes would want a Wolf ilClan, consider this. The Wolves are known for being fairly hands off with their lower castes. To the point where there were hardly any society sympathisers in their ranks. Now, If SOMEONE stands to take Terra, it's probably not the horses, or ravens. Too distant, geographically. Might be the bears, they do have that obscene new battle bus. But more likely it's going to be the Falcons or the Wolves. The Foxes might be able to mobilize all their fleets and converge, but that sounds high risk, low reward for them.

So, If I was a sea fox, I'd be asking myself do I want a hardline, possibly insane falcon perched upon Terra's seat, Or do I want a Wolf who's probably not going to be all up in my business? Didn't FM3145 indicate some bad blood between falcon and fox?

If the bears enter the fray, I could see them possibly swaying sea fox support, but I think between the foremost contenders, the obvious choice is "Sell to the Wolves"

And if that Empire gets to be too much of a burden, well, there's the Fox-run clan hegemony right next door. Perhaps they're interested in a few planets?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 24 October 2015, 20:01:47
Clan Sea Fox wants the clans to be a "Normal" in the Inner Sphere. Average Joe Steiner needs to want to buy some Sea Fox Puffs cereal.

Malvina Hazen destabilizes that by ramming warships into planets which is definitely not normal and so is not wanted.

Marketing test groups of Sea Fox Puffs cereal boxes with A cute cartoon animorphic Jade Falcon riding a warship towards a planet sold 500% less well than the standard Sea Fox box.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Archangel on 24 October 2015, 23:52:47
I agree that there is no love lost between the Falcons and Foxes especially after Malvina's ascension.  In addition, her actions reflect poorly upon the rest of the Clans which in turn hurts the Fox's image and complicates their business ventures.

The Wolves, on the other hand, are the type of customers the Foxes love.  Heavily dependent upon Fox products and assistance and willing to make concessions to get what they need.  In addition, since the Bear still appears to be sleeping, the Wolves are all that stands between the Falcons causing even more widespread chaos and mayhem to their business interests.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 25 October 2015, 22:41:21
It says the Horses trialed DI back in the 3080s. The Wolves had 50 years to notice and aquire it themselves.

Eh... The Parash 3 text indicates that getting video of the Parash 3 or DI salvage has been a very rare thing for those 50 (actually 44 if I did the math right) years.  And when it did happen, the implications went unnoticed, even by other Clans and the Inner Sphere's best post-Jihad intel orgs in the Republic.  Maybe through the fiat of Kerensky, the Wolves got lucky with some video/isorla, and their Watch was also actually on the ball in recognizing the technology's potential.  But given the Parash 3 text and the lack of a follow-through DI design by the Horses, it seems somewhat more likely that the Horses made the Wolves aware of the DI technology, probably through their various design/development/manufacturing agreements with the Exiles (Cygnus, Hellstar) and probably after the Wolves abandoned their OZ, and struck a deal.

It's also possible that there is no link between the Parash 3 and Skinwalker.  At the end of the Skinwalker text, it states that Stone wants to know where the _Wolves_ got the DI technology, and that the Parash 3 is an unsatisfactory answer.  (Or maybe Stone is just getting post-freeze crazier and seeing Blakie conspiracies where there are none.)

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The Foxes are mentioned because they aquire everything.

Yeah, the Foxes certainly could have been an intermediary instead of or in addition to the Exiles. 

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The Ravens are mentioned because they used to build Storm Crows and the Wolves didn't

So did the Horses.  (They originated the Stormcrow design.)  It doesn't make sense to single out the Ravens over the Horses on Stormcrows if the Ravens are not actually connected to the Skinwalker.

It's also interesting that both of the two remaining Clan users of protomechs in the Inner Sphere get implicated in the Skinwalker's development, which makes sense given the DI technology.

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It is specifically said later that the Ravens aren't rich enough to exploit DI.

That motive may also be indicative of deals being struck, i.e., Ravens provide Stormcrow blueprints, parts, caches, or production in exchange for some of the upgraded Skinwalkers because the Ravens lack the resources to integrate the technology on a modified/new design themselves.

It's interesting to compare the spread of DI technology among the Council of Six to the spread of omnimech technology among the original Clans.  Some of that diffusion was done via trials of possession or isorla from other trials, but some diffusion was also done in the absence of trials (political or economic deals and outright sharing through alliances).

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It is a leap to connect this to the Wolves.

I didn't connect the Lev III to the Wolves.  I just said it's like the Council of Six is finally getting its act together.  As allies from before they left the Homeworlds and now with a common enemy in the Combine, the Bears and Ravens arguably should have been doing more than joint warship production a long time ago.

Quote
Um. It barely says any of that.

I dunno.  Like most BT sources, and especially since the Jihad kicked off, XTRO:RIII is written ambiguously.  Your perspective depends heavily on what "hints" you want to take as actual foreshadowing versus what "hints" you think are merely red herrings.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: marauder648 on 26 October 2015, 04:40:56
I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan.  Lets say the Wolves do it and capture and HOLD terra against the inevitable Republic counter attacks. 

Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Maelwys on 26 October 2015, 06:30:46
It could be that something the Council of Six has prepared for. for all we know they've been discussing it over the past 60 years, about what exactly would happen if one of them conquered Terra.

Whether the other Clans would actually live up to that however...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 26 October 2015, 06:33:09
Eh... The Parash 3 text indicates that getting video of the Parash 3 or DI salvage has been a very rare thing for those 50 (actually 44 if I did the math right) years.  And when it did happen, the implications went unnoticed, even by other Clans and the Inner Sphere's best post-Jihad intel orgs in the Republic.

Seriously? The best? I must've missed all the SIS' "intelligence coups" since their founding.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 26 October 2015, 08:11:57
Seriously? The best? I must've missed all the SIS' "intelligence coups" since their founding.

That's why you missed them.

Seriously though, the SIS's achievements have been largely off-camera due to the fact that most of their operational time hasn't been covered in detail. With that being said, you can look at the fact that they were able to 'disappear' so much Word tech and information, and then secretly redevelop it without anyone else knowing is a good example of what they've been doing.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 26 October 2015, 09:51:48
They've been dropping the ball since Liao's Operation Golden Fortress, which is exactly since their founding or whatever they were before the SIS became official.

And no, they're not the ones who should get the credit for 'disappearing' the Word tech. The Cappies managed to smuggle the Osprey and Yao Lien for their own use. The "crippled" ComStar and its "no longer existing" ROM one-upped them by discovering the "disappeared" Word info and managed to come up with multiple effective designs and mass-producing them secretly, all the while under the watchful eyes of the RoTS and right in their own territory, just 30 light years away from Terra.

There're a lot of other stuff the SIS sucks at, but suffice to say, they're nothing compared to Word of Blake ROM or WolfNet, not even up there with post-Reform ROM or Successor State intel agency level.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 09:57:51
I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan.  Lets say the Wolves do it and capture and HOLD terra against the inevitable Republic counter attacks. 

Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?

The Ilclan means you are the leader of the new Star League. The Clans are a collection of warrior tribes and the Ilkhan is their warleader.

If you become Ilclan then you get Ilkhan for life. You aren't supposed to be able to effect the internal affairs of another clan. But during times of war you have a lot of control.

The Inner Sphere Clans haven't had an Ilkhan. Technically Clan Star Adder had the last Ilkhan. But invading and home clans don't talk to eachother.

Theoretically if Alaric can conquer Terra he can then order the other clans to do whatever in a military campaign to rebuild the Star League.

If nobody complains that his genetic material barely has anything to do with the clans. Technically Katherine became a Wolf. But he is the trueborn progeny of two Freeborns who were never in the clans to begin with...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rtifs on 26 October 2015, 10:32:09
Normally I would argue that Alaric’s genetic background would result in a legitimacy challenge from the Jade Falcons, but under Malvina, they will have strenuous objections anyway. 

As a Jade Falcon, I pretty much understand the Wolves, except for one aspect.  Why do the Wolves like to take IS warriors, give them Ward bloodnames, and elevate them to khans?  Phelan’s qualification was a bit of a technicality, but understandable.  I don’t know why he was so welcomed though.  Alaric can’t even claim a technical qualification for the Ward name.  And his heritage isn’t a secret anymore.  I’m just surprised that no one in the Wolves has a problem with this. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 10:40:13
They do. Conservative elements of the Wolves aren't going to like him getting a Ward Bloodname.

The thing is that he took them from languishing uselessly in a hopeless and surrounded occupation zone to being poised to take Terra. Everyone loves a winner. So despite the faction of clan wolf that will want to see him fail the momentum is behind him and they will do anything to make that mote legitimate.

Phelan was technically a distant relative of the Wards anyways. Also, Ulric, the Khan, then the Ilkhan wanted it to happen. Ulric was also a a winner so the same forces were in motion.

Aiden Pryde pretended to be a freebirth for a long time. But. Winner.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Auberan on 26 October 2015, 10:47:51
What can they question about his heritage? While yes, he called Katherine his mother, I'm sure the scientists that cooked him up along with whatever else was part of that Ironborn Sibko took the precautions that Vlad entrusted them with.

It is possible that on his record, Vlad Ward is his fore bearer, since the experiment was his and Katherine's together. Equally it is possible that they fudged the connection between Katherine and the Ward line, or that there was a connection somewhere, which let Alaric be considered part of the Ward Bloodhouse. Worse case scenario, there are a few markers in his genetic code that declare him a Ward, but are just inserted for that specific purpose.

As Alaric openly gave his DNA away to be tested to give credence to his claim as Katherine's son, yet has the dark secret trait and is willing to kill anyone who might be able to reveal he is not descended from a Clan warrior, there probably is some sort of genetic proof that gives him the claim to the Ward bloodname.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 10:54:01
He isn't Katherine and Vlad Ward.

He is Victor SD and Katherine SD.

The clans operate under the idea that the people who left the inner sphere to form the clans were better than the other people in the inner sphere. Then the best of those left the Klondike world's and further found the best of those to create the clans.

So that one of these best of the best of the best would some day return to become the new leader of the star league.

Well what's happened instead is that two of the descendants of the barbarians of the inner sphere who are brother and sister are going to have their child conquer the inner sphere

Alaric Ward has nothing to do with the Clans. He has got Hanse Davion and Victor Steiner Davion blood.

Probably Hanse Davions plan all along...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 11:04:32
Hanse Davion: "Ahh. The descendants of Kerensky are returning. I see possibilities here. Now to fake my own death. Blow up my wife. Coach my Daughter to usurp the Lyran Commonwealth. Deploy my son to stop the clans. Create a fake Star League. Start a civil war to destabilize the inner sphere alliances. Exploit those crazy comstar Blake worshippers to try to destroy the Inner Sphere. Get cosmetic surgery and place myself in a crazy comstar concentration camp. Defeat the comstar crazies, create a star league shaped faction in the middle of the inner sphere FREEZE myself, then have my daughter create an incestuous clone of my son and daughter to conquer Terra and become the Real Star League. Such a simple plan!"

Stone is Hanse.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: marauder648 on 26 October 2015, 11:18:25
Hanse Davion: "Ahh. The descendants of Kerensky are returning. I see possibilities here. Now to fake my own death. Blow up my wife. Coach my Daughter to usurp the Lyran Commonwealth. Deploy my son to stop the clans. Create a fake Star League. Start a civil war to destabilize the inner sphere alliances. Exploit those crazy comstar Blake worshippers to try to destroy the Inner Sphere. Get cosmetic surgery and place myself in a crazy comstar concentration camp. Defeat the comstar crazies, create a star league shaped faction in the middle of the inner sphere FREEZE myself, then have my daughter create an incestuous clone of my son and daughter to conquer Terra and become the Real Star League. Such a simple plan!"

Stone is Hanse.


(http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21206871/images/1350763603567.jpg)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 11:23:48
Everybody on the forums right now is just thinking, "God how could we have fallen for that cheesy heart attack?"

And, "How do we stop him? It's too late and he is a fictional character. Ilclan had already been written!"

I refuse to believe that this isn't what's really happened and I can't believe we all missed it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 26 October 2015, 12:33:03
I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan.

Based on ComStar, Blakie, and Republic experience and insights, it seems that regardless of what the other Clans do, benefits will accrue to the ilClan just by having access to and control over Terra's rich resources, superior technology, and underutilized military manufacturing.  (Assuming that Terra doesn't get trashed in the process.)  The same is probably true to a lesser degree of other old Hegemony/core worlds.

Quote
Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?

Culturally, it's a lot more than bragging rights.  Terra and the old Hegemony worlds are the holy land and manifest destiny of Clans' cult of Kerensky and worship of all things Star League.  They go to the heart of Clan beliefs and the fundamental purpose of their society.  Seeing Clan (Kerensky?, Cameron?) rule on Terra and a Star League resurrected in the Clans' image (however perverted) would be like King Arthur coming back from Avalon to rule at Camelot.

That doesn't mean that there still won't be cynical and opportunistic Clan khans and ristars.  But the cultural significance of Terra, the old Hegemony, and the ilClan in the minds of the warriors and other castes may (will?) put brakes on the ambitions of Clan leaders.  There may (will?) be only so much these ambitious leaders can do if their warriors see more honor and glory in serving in the ilClan's resurrected SLDF than in fighting in their Clan's latest bid for power.  Because of centuries-old beliefs, the very existence of an ilClan holding power on Terra may (will?) bring order to Clan society, and Clan leaders may (will?) have to work within that order rather than constantly challenge it.

Or it may just be one huge, mutual Trial of Annihilation... who knows?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 12:36:13
Haha. God I hope that's the name of the next book after Ilclan, "One huge, mutual, Trial of Annihilation."
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 26 October 2015, 12:49:45
Seriously? The best? I must've missed all the SIS' "intelligence coups" since their founding.

... suffice to say, they're nothing compared to Word of Blake ROM or WolfNet, not even up there with post-Reform ROM or Successor State intel agency level.

I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet.  But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies.  Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result.  Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures.  And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall.  On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).

My 2 C-bills... YMMV.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 26 October 2015, 14:49:55
I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan.  Lets say the Wolves do it and capture and HOLD terra against the inevitable Republic counter attacks. 

Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?

Don't be so dismissive of "Bragging rights." This is part of why the clans exist. If you take Terra back from the barbarians, no other clan can EVER say they did the same. The Wolves aren't going to look to the other clans and go "Please, will you obey us now?" Hell no. If those other clans are lucky, then MAYBE the Wolves will let them in on building the next hegemony, the next League. IF they ask nicely and prove they're strong enough to deserve inclusion.

Even if they die in the taking, or after, what more fitting soil to soak with clan blood than holy Terra?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 26 October 2015, 15:00:44
From coming soon: 

The Republic definitely falls... and the wolves are definitely anecdotally on Terra.

So without the home clans swooping in that kind of leaves it down to three or four suspects.

Tukayyid 2.0! (Hazen vs Harwell! Cage match! Buy a savage wolf!)

I realize this is the Wolf fan thread, but am I the only one who even considers the possibility that the teaser text in the ilClan sourcebook mentioning the upcoming "fall" of the Republic could be something other than external conquest?

A Republic was afterall "saved" from political and military turmoil before by a charismatic leader named Julius Ceasar.  Change his name to "Stone" and his new title to "ilKhan" rather than Emperor and we've got a ready-made template to explain how the rise of an ilClan doesn't have to mean anyone externally imposes a conquest of the Republic and/or Terra.

The ilClan is led by whoever can successfully twist his rivals' arms and get them to squeal "ilKhan!" instead of Uncle.  I'm not saying it can't be a Clan that becomes ilClan.. I'm saying it's a fallacy to say it does have to be.  Stone becoming ilKhan and his Republic being reorganized as something that takes the name "ilClan" is one such, imo plausible, example.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 26 October 2015, 15:31:55
I realize this is the Wolf fan thread

You're right. It is. :|
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Auberan on 26 October 2015, 15:33:49
He isn't Katherine and Vlad Ward.

He is Victor SD and Katherine SD.

The clans operate under the idea that the people who left the inner sphere to form the clans were better than the other people in the inner sphere. Then the best of those left the Klondike world's and further found the best of those to create the clans.

So that one of these best of the best of the best would some day return to become the new leader of the star league.

Well what's happened instead is that two of the descendants of the barbarians of the inner sphere who are brother and sister are going to have their child conquer the inner sphere

Alaric Ward has nothing to do with the Clans. He has got Hanse Davion and Victor Steiner Davion blood.

Probably Hanse Davions plan all along...

-We- know this, but unless something recently came out exposing that, everyone in the Clans do not. They know about Katherine, and the experiment was supposed to be Vlad's, and somehow Alaric was part of the Ward bloodhouse.

Whatever we know means all of jack in universe, so as far as they are concerned right now, Alaric is a Ward who happens to have a geneparent from an adopted Inner Sphere warrior.

If the full secret has been exposed in universe and it is known... well then I suppose success is its own qualifier.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 16:03:27
It probably won't matter. From a meta perspective they need to wrap up the dark age and set the stage for their next timejump/product.

Alaric historically sacked Rome. The original Clan Invasion was a sci-fi spin on Hannibal's invasion of europe.

The odds are pretty strong in favor of Clan Wolf conquering Terra and the collective clans subjugation the Inner Sphere so it can be set up to blow up again.

It might be best if the Ghost Bears won just because the Falcons and wolves have a real rivalry. But I'll be surprised if it doesn't fall on the wolf side.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 26 October 2015, 16:59:03
A Republic was afterall "saved" from political and military turmoil before by a charismatic leader named Julius Ceasar.

I dunno if Ceasar is the right analogy.  Caesar conquered several Gallic tribes, but he did not rule them as one of their own or invite them to live in the old Roman Republic/Empire, as the title of ilKhan would imply.  Moreover, Caesar started/won a civil war within the Roman Republic, but there is no civil war (as yet) within the Republic of the Sphere.  Everyone is seemingly loyal to Stone.

But later on, the Visigoths were invited to live within the Roman Empire and join its armies.  That could be the path to the ilClan -- Stone invites Clan forces into the Republic after Fortress comes down and sics them on invading Cappies and Dracs in exchange for territory.  (Stone has allied with Clans before, after all.)  But the Clanners eventually turn on Stone and invade Terra like the Visigoths turned on and sacked Rome.

Quote
Change his name to "Stone"

The problem with Devlin Stone over the long-term in any of these scenarios is that he is going/has gone nutters from his cryo sleep.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 26 October 2015, 17:22:47
I dunno if Ceasar is the right analogy.

The analogy wasn't meant to go any further than providing another example of a historical parallel other than Alaric sacking Rome.  They do both have their problems.

All I was saying is that while yes, the ilClan blurb does promise that the Republic will "fall".... but "falling" doesn't necessarily mean it must follow that it will be conquered by external forces.

In the face of the Republic's troubles in 3150, Stone might re-birth the Republic in the image of Clan Society... perhaps to appease or retain the loyalty of the Clan warriors already in the RAF.  Maybe more like the second coming of Little Nicky rather than Caesar.  Going from Republic to ilClan Supremacy would certainly count as "falling" from perspectives sympathetic to the Republic.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 26 October 2015, 17:32:35
Talking to some foxes on Galatea and Solaris I'd give that a .0000001% chance.

It could happen. Anything can happen.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: rebs on 26 October 2015, 22:42:44
To the average Clan mindset, no position is more dominant than Terra.  It is the center, as well as the True homeworld.  As deadly vulnerable a position it is - beset by rival Clans and bitter foe Great Houses - it calls to the children of those who once wandered so far distant. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Archangel on 26 October 2015, 22:45:22
I dunno if Caesar is the right analogy.  Caesar conquered several Gallic tribes, but he did not rule them as one of their own or invite them to live in the old Roman Republic/Empire, as the title of ilKhan would imply.

Just as important Caesar was murdered before he could crown himself king, emperor or whatever (if he was going to in the first place).

Quote
Moreover, Caesar started/won a civil war within the Roman Republic, but there is no civil war (as yet) within the Republic of the Sphere.

Well there was that short-lived Senate rebellion.

Quote
The problem with Devlin Stone over the long-term in any of these scenarios is that he is going/has gone nutters from his cryo sleep.

Did he now?   }:) Maybe he (re)gained his sanity and finally realized that it was the rest of the Inner Sphere that was insane and that the only way to cure it was with WAR!   >:D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 October 2015, 04:58:48
I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet.  But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies.  Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result.  Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures.  And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall.  On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).

My 2 C-bills... YMMV.

I'm guessing most of our current FMs and TROs are written from a Republic perspective because they've always been written by whatever faction that was "True Neutral" or held Terra.

Nah the Successor States that are losing are due more to inept leadership that practically gifted their foes victory. Melissa II tried to do an Honorius on Alaric, Jessica had never been a notable commander, while Caleb and the uncooperative March Lords screwed the Suns over(and before that, Harrison).

If you read the MWDA novels, you'll see that SIS and the Republic in general are riddled with incompetent intel people(except for a few good Ghost Knights). The Successor State agencies managed to achieve a lot in the Republic, Mask paving the way for the CCAF, O5P/ISF for DCMS, LIC/Loki helping Stormhammers a lot, best of all, the weakest CBT agency SAFE managing to plant high-ranking informers/agents in many places without even being detected.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Archangel on 27 October 2015, 07:57:20
I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet.  But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies.  Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result.  Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures.  And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall.  On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).

My 2 C-bills... YMMV.

Even the Maskirovka which was likely in charge of covering up the buildup of 'Mechs and then later units?  The Capellan failures during the Republic era were due more to failure among the leadership than a failure by the Maskirovka.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 October 2015, 09:37:09
May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: False Son on 27 October 2015, 09:40:24
Did he now?   }:) Maybe he (re)gained his sanity and finally realized that it was the rest of the Inner Sphere that was insane and that the only way to cure it was with WAR!   >:D

He is a little freezer burnt when it comes to name drops.

If you read the MWDA novels, you'll see that SIS and the Republic in general are riddled with incompetent intel people(except for a few good Ghost Knights). The Successor State agencies managed to achieve a lot in the Republic, Mask paving the way for the CCAF, O5P/ISF for DCMS, LIC/Loki helping Stormhammers a lot, best of all, the weakest CBT agency SAFE managing to plant high-ranking informers/agents in many places without even being detected.

Pre Blackout the DMI was not on their game.  At the least, the AFFS should have shared their findings in the Victoria War.  The Capellans had been stashing war material for the Capellan Crusades, and had the Republic been informed (and maybe it was) then perhaps the political log jam of deciding whether or not to treat the Confederation as a threat would not have existed.  Them again, after two wars with the Confederation the Republic didn't deem them sufficient enough of a threat.

Post blackout DMI operations have stepped up, at least where Fortress Republic is concerned.  But, it is worth noting that there are forces inside the Fortress that have yet to be identified by the DMI acting against the Republic.  The raiders that hit the Comstar ruins on Epsilon Eridani, for example were never named.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 October 2015, 10:50:38
May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan

Nah it's fine. It's gonna run its course soon for both me and Natasha
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 27 October 2015, 16:08:22
So, Wolves, What machines do you see yourself pairing with the Skinwalker?

Buyable from the Sea Foxes are Mad Cat III's and Sun Cobra 2's that should keep up with them in non-TSM movement. Sun Cobra 2's would also be beneficial since we've presumably got a number of Sun Cobras still in service. Similar logistical needs, even if they're faster. Mongrels, if we can get them, would be able to keep up with it's TSM Movement.

From older stock, it'd pair well in a motive sense, with Pouncers, Adders and naturally any Stormcrows we have laying around (which I doubt is many). Linebackers, too.

You could team it with the Wulfen, of course, but that's going to tether the Wulfen to a slower unit, even with the TSM active. I'd almost rather toss it in with Warwolves, and let the Skinwalker be the faster unit in the star.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 27 October 2015, 17:40:41
May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan

Nah it's fine. It's gonna run its course soon for both me and Natasha

I'll bow out in favor of more lupine topics.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 27 October 2015, 17:52:07
So, Wolves, What machines do you see yourself pairing with the Skinwalker?

The Skinwalker's configurations are either snipers (Primary and A), close combat/shock specialists (B), or off-beat TSEMP/physical duellists (C and D).

None of the configurations deliver big hole-punchers (ER PPC, Gauss, heavy large laser), long-range/indirect fire support (LRMs), lots of critting (LB-X, massed SRMs, etc.), E/W (especially ECM), or jump mobility.

So in the absence of knowing my opponent, I'd look for starmates at complementary speeds that can fill those holes with their loadouts or configurations.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 27 October 2015, 18:18:15
I wonder if a Wendigo can take a skinwalker... that Ferro-lammellar though...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 27 October 2015, 19:26:19
None of the configurations deliver big hole-punchers (ER PPC, Gauss, heavy large laser), long-range/indirect fire support (LRMs), lots of critting (LB-X, massed SRMs, etc.), E/W (especially ECM), or jump mobility.

Well, not entirely,  the B carries a holepunching UAC/20 AND ECM.

You're right though, about the jumping. the crit situation is such that you can't really mount many of those to begin with.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 28 October 2015, 07:47:41
Well, not entirely,  the B carries a holepunching UAC/20 AND ECM.

You're right though, about the jumping. the crit situation is such that you can't really mount many of those to begin with.
The problem with jumping is that with all the tonnage & crits invested in the engine, FL, Endo, & TSM at a max you can jump 6 hexes with standard JJ. There's not enough space to fit more than 4 IJJ, and since it's an Omni a Partial Wing isn't an option.

That said, 5 jump jets will only cost you 2.5 of your 23 tons, so you can still get quite a few good options in there. At this point though, I'd say don't worry about jumping, increase your ground speed with a supercharger to get you up to a max of 14 hexes of movement (I think, I'm pretty sure TSM is calculated before the SC).


For its role, it can work with either a lighter, faster Star as the heavier punch, or as the recon/harasser of a slower, heavier Star.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 October 2015, 18:24:34
So then here's a hypothetical; the Ryoken III as presented in XTRO Republic III is still a prototype/experimental model. The text notes that a production model would likely be different, and we've seen plenty of cases were the change between XTRO and Production models swaps a lot of the tech around. With that being said, what do people think a likely mass production model would look like?

To me, the most obvious answer is to drop the interface cockpit which, while cool and all, is also the single most complicated bit of tech in the whole thing and has numerous other dependent systems - EI equipped pilot, interface PAL suit and the like. Dropping that keeps the core of the 'Mechs functionality (a 6/9 Medium Omni that replicates the classic Ryoken) intact. Of course, then the issue becomes finding three tons and four crits for the Gyro.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 28 October 2015, 19:01:54
I toyed with this.

If you drop the FerroLam for Ferro Fibrous, you can drop the Interface Cockpit. But then, all you really have is a Stormcrow with fewer crits and TSM. Which is really kinda boring.

I suspect we'll be seeing it as-is, but not in large numbers.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 October 2015, 19:31:47
I would keep the FL myself, because it's that damned useful.

The silliest idea I had was to go mixed tech a bit more;  drop the TSM for crits and slop in an XL gyro. That only needs one ton after the cockpit switch
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 28 October 2015, 19:39:13
A Small Cockpit would get you that ton. But I feel like an XL Gyro and a Small Cockpit yaws wildly away from what the prototype shows us.

Instead of a gyro-free super agile EI Driven mech, we get a harder to pilot, easier to bring down machine
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 October 2015, 20:04:14
I'd definitely avoid the small cockpit myself. The most obvious answer would be remove pod space or heat sinks, both of which wouldn't overly affect the performance
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 28 October 2015, 20:18:51
Well, there's not that many sinks to drop, and without the TSM, we're looking at some heat issues if we start dropping those.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Avitue on 28 October 2015, 20:47:49
Keep it as it is and drop some pod space for MORE Ferro-Lamellor I say! :D

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 02 November 2015, 13:50:35
Watch out for the Triskelion, trothkin. You would think that a Warwolf's Reactive Armor would make it an attractive counter to the trisk, but 4x ERML still hurts, and with the 360 twist and 1mp hex facing changes, they're going to be more mobile than your biped Timber Wolves and Warwolves.

they are clan mechs in all but name and skeleton.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 02 November 2015, 15:45:15
I wonder how it stands up to Mad Cats because it doesn't seem to think much about Warwulf's.

It might be the most optimized 75 ton mech out there...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 02 November 2015, 17:13:04
As long as you hit high (torsos, head, arms) you won't have any more trouble than any other Clan 'Mech. If you start spreading that leg damage around to a third leg that's where the tripods have an advantage.

The Warwolf variants with AMS will have an easier time, although if you can get an H in close, the big hole punchers might carve it up quicker. For the Timber Wolf it will be able shear damage, beat down the tripod. Unless your 'Mech can jump 7+ hexes you will likely lose the maneuverability battle, so the best bet is to pick units that focus their tonnage on firepower.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 02 November 2015, 20:16:08
As long as you hit high (torsos, head, arms) you won't have any more trouble than any other Clan 'Mech. If you start spreading that leg damage around to a third leg that's where the tripods have an advantage.

The Warwolf variants with AMS will have an easier time, although if you can get an H in close, the big hole punchers might carve it up quicker. For the Timber Wolf it will be able shear damage, beat down the tripod. Unless your 'Mech can jump 7+ hexes you will likely lose the maneuverability battle, so the best bet is to pick units that focus their tonnage on firepower.

See, that's what I expected, but the motive bonus is what bedeviled me the most. I thought the C would be a shoe-in, till my LPL got critted. the Warwolf's smaller armament list does it no favors. Still, even after losing that LPL, the HE ATMs made sure the Trisk knew it had been in a fight.

the H served me best. I had to push it hard, used both coolant pods, but I did manage to gut it.

Against a determined aggressor the A just couldn't keep range, and that 1mp turn-any-facing stuff really troubled it.

Timber-wise, I'm inclined to go with the A or D variants. A for damage output and D for "fine, come at me, any facing, you'll get the same no matter where you are"

Even more than the Timber Wolf, I want to see one up against a skinwalker. Lets see how it does when I have 6 or 7 mp to deal with
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 02 November 2015, 20:25:39
I'll take that challenge. I'd like to see how it does against Sea Fox equipment. Not sure though. My Vultures have stood up against Warwolves before... but the XXL engine of the Savage Wolf might be a liability.

One thing that's being overlooked is the Trisks targeting computer. It let me make run/walk or range decisions against the Warwulf.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 02 November 2015, 23:09:43

The Triskelion is almost everything the Catapult always wanted to be.

I'd be tempted to trade the Trisk's Artemis V for bigger LRM-20 launchers and special ammo.  The crits appear to work.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 03 November 2015, 09:04:32
Thinking about it some more, I think something like a Karhu Prime, a Viper B, Griffin IIC 8, etc things with a 7+ jump and an ERPPC or ERLL to out range the Triskellion are going to have a better advantage, otherwise you want a pocket-assault or an assault 'Mech to dish out the damage up close.


Steve, I'd try that battle again, getting a weapon critted once doesn't necessarily validate the results, unless it tends to happen often. Likewise you could have plinked an ERATM missile on the head and blown it off or critted both cockpits in your first shot.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 November 2015, 11:38:56
Steve, I'd try that battle again, getting a weapon critted once doesn't necessarily validate the results, unless it tends to happen often. Likewise you could have plinked an ERATM missile on the head and blown it off or critted both cockpits in your first shot.

Sure, it's a freak accident, but my point was it's more that the low number of weapons on a lot of warwolf configs makes it more vulnerable to that kind of accident
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 November 2015, 11:48:53
We can just try a broader fight. Ryoken III, Mad Cat, Warwulf versus some Trisks. Or Warwulfs or whatever.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 03 November 2015, 16:16:22
Sure, it's a freak accident, but my point was it's more that the low number of weapons on a lot of warwolf configs makes it more vulnerable to that kind of accident
ah, now I gotcha. It's true, the canon variants tend to be limited on the numbers of weapons, that they seem to be set up to fire everything all the time. But you can get some great custom variants out of the chassis that would work better to address this concern.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 November 2015, 20:38:15
just re-ran the Warwolf C v.s. Triskelion match with Kojak. I mean, what're the chances of me getting a freak TAC to a weapon early in the fight again, right?

... Apparently they're really good. Only like 4 turns in, two of them which we could fire at each other, and I'm already short one launcher.

I did come out on top thanks to some crits of my own that slowed him down, but boy were we both in rough shape at the end. All I had left by the end was the LPL and the LAMS.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 03 November 2015, 22:39:51
Yeah, I think it was the Prototype quirk that got me in the end. It cranked up the crit chances that resulted in a couple hits that were just straight-up catastrophic.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Ascension on 11 November 2015, 15:09:16
While I'm popping into Clan threads and talking about Bloodnames, your Khan Alaric may be interested to know that the Cloud Cobras do have a Steiner Bloodname...

*ducks*
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 November 2015, 16:13:04
They do, but it's been said to be a non-relation to the lyran throne. And even if it were, it's a homeworld legacy the wolves wouldn't have access to.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Ascension on 11 November 2015, 19:18:49
Aw, darn it. Outdone by logic, once again!

On a more serious note, while I was a MWDA and AoD player, and was pretty conversant with the fluff at the time, I didn't read most of the books Alaric got focus in. Do we know what the cover story for his sibko was, who exactly he was said to have been descended from that qualified him for the Ward name? Sarna just mentions that he won it, no real mention of how.

Apologies if this is too tired a topic of discussion. I'm really not trying to discredit him; his achievements speak for themselves. I'm just curious as to how he got there.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 November 2015, 19:41:19
It all happened offscreen, they were pretty scant on the details about how he was decanted/raised/trained.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 11 November 2015, 20:53:35
They do, but it's been said to be a non-relation to the lyran throne. And even if it were, it's a homeworld legacy the wolves wouldn't have access to.

Actually, no, Kailen Steiner (the founder of that particular Bloodname) was the (illegitimate) child of Paul Steiner, who was in turn the son of Michael Steiner II, the fifteenth Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth (Paul himself apparently never ended up Archon, but his two presumably elder siblings, Robert II and Jennifer, were the sixteenth and seventeenth Archons, respectively). So technically speaking, while not legitimated in a legal sense, genetically the Steiner Bloodname does come directly from the original Lyran royal line.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 11 November 2015, 23:06:26
Aw, darn it. Outdone by logic, once again!

On a more serious note, while I was a MWDA and AoD player, and was pretty conversant with the fluff at the time, I didn't read most of the books Alaric got focus in. Do we know what the cover story for his sibko was, who exactly he was said to have been descended from that qualified him for the Ward name? Sarna just mentions that he won it, no real mention of how.

Theoretically? He thinks he is Vlad's kid his whole life.

He told Trillian they were related but he could just be claiming Katherine Wolf's dna.

They don't know about the Victor thing.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Ascension on 12 November 2015, 01:11:05
Theoretically? He thinks he is Vlad's kid his whole life.

He told Trillian they were related but he could just be claiming Katherine Wolf's dna.

They don't know about the Victor thing.

But Bloodname eligibility comes from the genemother's side, so that'd still be a breach of protocol, right? Phelan (and Diana, over in Falconland) could at least claim maternal descent, despite being freeborn.

But I guess Clan tradition does have a tendency to break down whenever it might get in the way of protagonists...  :P
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 12 November 2015, 02:31:15
Actually, no, Kailen Steiner (the founder of that particular Bloodname) was the (illegitimate) child of Paul Steiner, who was in turn the son of Michael Steiner II, the fifteenth Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth (Paul himself apparently never ended up Archon, but his two presumably elder siblings, Robert II and Jennifer, were the sixteenth and seventeenth Archons, respectively). So technically speaking, while not legitimated in a legal sense, genetically the Steiner Bloodname does come directly from the original Lyran royal line.

Huh. Wonder if he'll Kell himself should he become ilKhan.

But Bloodname eligibility comes from the genemother's side, so that'd still be a breach of protocol, right? Phelan (and Diana, over in Falconland) could at least claim maternal descent, despite being freeborn.

But I guess Clan tradition does have a tendency to break down whenever it might get in the way of protagonists...  :P

Clan Gene Science is freaky. they can use a female donor as the "father" and a male donor as the "mother."
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 12 November 2015, 08:12:55
Huh. Wonder if he'll Kell himself should he become ilKhan.

Clan Gene Science is freaky. they can use a female donor as the "father" and a male donor as the "mother."
Correct, and since he interacted with Katherine on a regular basis, calling her "mother" was probably more of a way to refer to her in a way that would make sense to her.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Ascension on 12 November 2015, 09:43:41
I would ask where he got the Y chromosome from in that case, but I guess I'll just content myself in the knowledge that Clan genetics still isn't as screwy as Metal Gear Solid genetics.

(Liquid would make a good Clanner, though.)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rtifs on 12 November 2015, 12:20:13
In Masters of War he hoped he came from Vlad.  I think the sibko he was raised in did.  I think he learned that his “mother” was Kathryn early on.  But he was still trueborn, presumably from a Vlad/Kathryn match.  Later he learned that his “father” was VSD. 

What I’ve never understood is why House Ward allowed him to compete for the Ward bloodname.  In Bonfire (I think), the Loremaster was the leader of House Ward.  His internal dialogue strongly suggests he knew that Alaric wasn’t legitimate.  So why he allowed Alaric to compete is strange.  Even without a bloodname, Alaric was worthy of contributing to the genepool, and would still be an influential military and political figure. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 12 November 2015, 12:32:48
I imagine Alaric is the physical manifestation of the extreme of Might Makes Right.

He can claim he's part of any bloodhouse he wants.  What's the word of scientists or genetic data laid against victory in a Trial of Refusal?  Alaraic can force the Clan to wear their underwear on their heads if noone can stop him in a circle of equals.

"You're not even part of that Bloodhouse, Alaric!"

"I say I AM."
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 12 November 2015, 17:44:08
I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vehrec on 12 November 2015, 21:25:18
I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.
They might be uptight about it, but it seems that if you have enough cards in your hand you can force your way into a bloodhouse despite having no valid connection to it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Ascension on 12 November 2015, 22:12:44
They might be uptight about it, but it seems that if you have enough cards in your hand you can force your way into a bloodhouse despite having no valid connection to it.

But Alaric's really the only case of that, isn't he? And it wasn't known in his case. Aidan was a Pryde Trueborn, he just had a heap of dezgra baggage around his neck (and still had to fight a Trial of Refusal to make it in). Diana's genes were 100% from Pryde Trueborns, and had the Khan on her side. Phelan had a genetic link, however tangential, and also had a Khan on his side. Alaric's the only weird Bloodname case I know of where there's genuinely no connection.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 12 November 2015, 23:09:33

Phelan Ward/Kell and Arthur Steiner-Davion were cousins. 

Were they just cousins-in-law through Morgan Kell, who was a cousin of Katrina Steiner's husband Arthur Luvon?

Or were they cousins with a common ancestor?  Specifically, did some part of the Steiner or Davion line descend from SLDF Captain Michael Ward, like Phelan Ward/Kell was a descendant of SLDF Captain Michael Ward through his mother, Salome Ward?

If it's the latter, then maybe Alaric has a legitimate claim to a Ward bloodname in the same way Phelan did.

FWIW...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 13 November 2015, 01:06:56
Phelan's "legit" claim to a Ward Bloodname was probably more then a little "influenced" by Ulric in the name of giving himself an ally with rank and position and the potential to increase in both. As a bondsman or even an adopted freeborn, he still could only go so far, but with a Bloodname, he coild get to Khan
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 13 November 2015, 09:22:07
I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.
A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 13 November 2015, 09:31:17
A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.

And given that even some of the most prominent and powerful Bloodname Houses have been reduced to five or fewer legacies over the centuries, it's probably safe to assume that very few Houses still have all twenty-five.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 13 November 2015, 11:32:49
Phelan's "legit" claim to a Ward Bloodname was probably more then a little "influenced" by Ulric

No doubt.  Obviously Phelan was not a product of his Clan's trueborn breeding protocols.  It took Ulric's intervention to ignore this fact when Phelan competed for a Ward bloodname.

But through his mother Salome Ward, Phelan was a direct matrilineal descendant of SLDF Captain Michael Ward.  Phelan carried the right Ward genes; they just hadn't been tweaked by the Scientist Caste for a couple centuries.

What I'm wondering is whether Alaric also carries Ward genes.  We know that the Wards and Kells are cousins of the Steiners through marriage, due to Arthur Luvon's marriage to Katrina Steiner.

But are all these cousin references about more than just the Luvon/Steiner marriage?  Did the Steiner or Davion line cross with SLDF Captain Micheal Ward's line at some point farther in the past?  That's what I'm asking.

If the Steiners or Davions do carry Ward genes, then it's possible that Alaric may have as "legitimate" (or nearly as "legitimate") a claim on a Ward bloodname as Phelan did.

That would be a very different situation than if Alaric claimed a Ward bloodname with no Ward genes.

(That also begs the question of who had the clout to force the Ward bloodhouse to accept Alaric's claim.  If it took someone of Ulric's stature to allow freeborn Phelan to compete with good Ward genes, who had even more power to allow trueborn Alaric to compete with no Ward genes?)

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 13 November 2015, 14:14:30
A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.

Whoops, jumbled that up then.

I still wouldn't fancy having to fight up to 25 warriors who object to my being preposterous though.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Ascension on 13 November 2015, 16:19:14
Whoops, jumbled that up then.

I still wouldn't fancy having to fight up to 25 warriors who object to my being preposterous though.

If it became a whole-Clan political issue rather than just a Bloodhouse issue, too, the odds could get even worse. There were other issues at foot (primarily Ter Roshak's deception and Aidan's retesting), but it was a vote of nearly half the Falcons' Bloodnamed warriors (all those who could attend) that set the odds for the Refusal Aidan had to fight before challenging for his Bloodname. Only Ter Roshak's political connections managed to bring those down to a survivable three-to-one.

Piss off too much of your Clan and you'd basically just be sending out the invitation to your own Annihilation.

Of course, the inverse is equally true: Have enough friends (or friends in high enough places), and you should be fine. It's possible that, as Khan, Alaric has managed to inculcate enough loyalty to his own person among the warriors of the Wolf Empire to survive the revelation of his true status... but then again, maybe not.

I think it could make for some thrilling fiction either way. (Since even if the Wolves support him, it'd leave him massively vulnerable to protest from other Clans).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 13 November 2015, 16:27:44
Correct, and since he interacted with Katherine on a regular basis, calling her "mother" was probably more of a way to refer to her in a way that would make sense to her.

I believe she insisted on it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 13 November 2015, 16:33:37
It won't come up. Clan Wolf wants him to be a Ward. The Wards want him to be a Ward. If he decided he had been a Kerensky they would have jumped at that too.

He took them out from a rock and a hard place and delivered them to glory. He is more Emperor than Khan and probably dangerously close to being messianic to them.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Auberan on 18 November 2015, 18:03:12
(That also begs the question of who had the clout to force the Ward bloodhouse to accept Alaric's claim.  If it took someone of Ulric's stature to allow freeborn Phelan to compete with good Ward genes, who had even more power to allow trueborn Alaric to compete with no Ward genes?)

The books make it pretty clear that the Ironborn Sibko that Alaric came from, was some sort of experiment originally initiated by Vlad. His status as part of the Ward Bloodhouse is also "Vlad's deception".

The sense I got was that his claim as a Ward has existed since before he was decanted, whether there are some markers in his DNA that indicate it or if it's just a paper trail, House Ward has always had him as a member of their bloodline.

More than likely the loremaster never went against Alaric openly because of the fear that Alaric would win a trial of refusal, and how the deception would taint the Ward Bloodhouse and the line, as he was also a Ward.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 19 February 2016, 18:15:49
Hello fellow Wolves,just checking in to see if we are all still alive.I see the IlClan Sourcebook has not came out yet any news?Stay Strong they haven't killed us all yet!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Fletch on 19 February 2016, 18:44:42
It appears from anecdotes picked up here and there that IlClan has been shelved and original plans past 3145 Era Report torpedoed.

Move along, nothing to see here.  All hype about Wolves taking Terra can now be ignored.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 19 February 2016, 23:20:23
I'm not sure we can draw that conclusion at all. I think all we can conclude is that they're being absolutely silent about what is going on.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: DarthRads on 20 February 2016, 07:54:53
It appears from anecdotes picked up here and there that IlClan has been shelved and original plans past 3145 Era Report torpedoed.

Move along, nothing to see here.  All hype about Wolves taking Terra can now be ignored.

It's still on coming release page
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 February 2016, 08:38:49
The delay in IlClan is fine, it lets Wolf players amass huge armies of Wolf minis to be properly painted up so that we can go to the table and start hitting the Republic.

Personally I am working on a Blood Reaper and sitting here staring at a Tundra Wolf that is being a pain since its a tiny nub from the foot on the base plate to the leg.  Otherwise the Tundra Wolf mini looks pretty easy though I am not sure I think it translated well from the MWDA figure.  I might paint one up as a Steel Wolf machine for fun since I have another in a blister, other wise it will be in camo to be part of a 'generic' set.

The Reaper on the other hand is pretty easy to put together, just trying to decide what I want to do with the missile bay covers.  The art makes it look like the slide up, I am thinking about popping open to the outside.  Right now the Blood Reaper is the MotW so go check in on the topic with what you think.

Anyone look at the map from FM3145 and start planning the invasion waves?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 21 February 2016, 09:21:46
 It has had the opposite effect on me,I have looked and have stated other systems.I Love Battletech but if they kill Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire off I dont want to be another Jaguar player living in the past as the corpses of our Clan Rots in the grave or lingers in some pretend way.I'll wait for the book and hope I will be playing Battletech for a long time.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 21 February 2016, 09:46:55
Alaric Ward has a fanatical following among Clan Wolf warriors due to his exploits in the Steiner invasion.  And I would guess that it's public knowledge (yet not the truth) that one of his geneparents was Vlad Ward, giving him access to the Ward bloodname.

Kitsune413 said it much better than I ever could though.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Miz Anna on 21 February 2016, 11:57:48
The delay in IlClan is fine, it lets Wolf players amass huge armies of Wolf minis to be properly painted up so that we can go to the table and start hitting the Republic.

Personally I am working on a Blood Reaper and sitting here staring at a Tundra Wolf that is being a pain since its a tiny nub from the foot on the base plate to the leg.  Otherwise the Tundra Wolf mini looks pretty easy though I am not sure I think it translated well from the MWDA figure.  I might paint one up as a Steel Wolf machine for fun since I have another in a blister, other wise it will be in camo to be part of a 'generic' set.

The Reaper on the other hand is pretty easy to put together, just trying to decide what I want to do with the missile bay covers.  The art makes it look like the slide up, I am thinking about popping open to the outside.  Right now the Blood Reaper is the MotW so go check in on the topic with what you think.

Anyone look at the map from FM3145 and start planning the invasion waves?

I just assembled and primed a Tundra Wolf, I ended up drilling and using a brass pin in the footbase-to-leg connection. I didn't want to trust that nub. I'm planning to get another Tundra Wolf to convert into a "4"-version. Trying to decide on a Wolf paint scheme now. It's down to Beta Galaxy or maybe 'generic' grey.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 February 2016, 16:10:26
I have planned stars or binaries- probably trinaries when I get all the Elementals set up- in unit schemes and then have a collection of more generic Clan equipment painted in camo shemes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Miz Anna on 21 February 2016, 16:35:27
That sounds wise. I have a Marauder IIC in Beta Galaxy scheme for a test, and I'd like to get some decals from Fighting Piranha. I think I could make a whole Trinary for the Wolves out of what I have primed.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 February 2016, 06:39:38
It has had the opposite effect on me,I have looked and have stated other systems.I Love Battletech but if they kill Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire off I dont want to be another Jaguar player living in the past as the corpses of our Clan Rots in the grave or lingers in some pretend way.I'll wait for the book and hope I will be playing Battletech for a long time.

I don't think they'll kill the Wolves off. That's like CGL bankrupting themselves by alienating a major portion of their customers.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 22 February 2016, 22:29:31
It has had the opposite effect on me,I have looked and have stated other systems.I Love Battletech but if they kill Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire off I dont want to be another Jaguar player living in the past as the corpses of our Clan Rots in the grave or lingers in some pretend way.I'll wait for the book and hope I will be playing Battletech for a long time.

I might be alone in this, but I think the Fidelis are much more interesting than the Jaguars.

Lets hope we don't lose them again.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 22 February 2016, 23:02:45
The delay in IlClan is fine

Well, in my opinion the delay is ridiculous. I doubt that surprises anyone. But I think that it's a little shortsighted to focus on just IlClan now that we know about the Milestones books. What I'm waiting for, what I have lost all patience in this long march towards, is not just IlClan, but simply for the plot to move forward. Any book that does that, has my dollar.

Anyone look at the map from FM3145 and start planning the invasion waves?

Not quite. What I had done is go sifting through every scrap of information that TRO 3150 gives us, trying to scry and infer the fortress-down event from dates and actions given in the book. It's PROBABLY past 3148, because TRO 3150 gives us this under the Juliano

Quote from: TRO 3150 Juliano Notable Units
During a lull in 3148, the Red Keshik challenged the First Free World Guards for Jumpship Repair Services at the illium Shipyards of Ionus

And if there was a major action going on, if the Clan were striving towards Terra I doubt that such a period would be referred to as a "lull"

And we know the fortress walls are down no later than January 21st 3150, thanks to the date of the foreward written by Tucker Harwell
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 February 2016, 00:23:43
Well . . . ilClan being delayed is no surprise- I like getting the Classics back which cannot happen soon enough.  Its also delayed IMO because the cashing in on Alpha Strike . . . for all the 'we are not abandoning old table top' they are pushing Alpha Strike and publishing the books for bringing that game to 3050.  I mean we had the time jump discussion where they talked about leaping forward with simplified tech base & weapons . . . well, we did not leap forward but they are producing material linked to a faster simplified game.  I think its the future for the franchise they have chosen to run with . . .

 . . . on the flip side, has anyone filled the spot Herb vacated?  Not having someone at the helm could be another reason we are not really moving ahead on the timeline as they do not want to commit to a future when that person may go another route or adjust it for their vision.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: JadedFalcon on 23 February 2016, 02:57:45
It's been pointed out before that starting a new era from scratch is something that CGL hasn't done before, and that they don't own the property. The profitability of Battletech is another factor (and not a new one), so can you fault them for spending their time and money on completing the core rulebooks that started over a decade ago instead of starting a brand new setting that may not appeal to everyone?

Because of how the rules work, Alpha Strike would've been the perfect opportunity for new Dark Age products. But Clan Invasion syncs up with MWO, other established products and expectations, and the rules for Total Warfare in that era are easier for new players.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 23 February 2016, 05:58:01
Well, in my opinion the delay is ridiculous. I doubt that surprises anyone. But I think that it's a little shortsighted to focus on just IlClan now that we know about the Milestones books. What I'm waiting for, what I have lost all patience in this long march towards, is not just IlClan, but simply for the plot to move forward. Any book that does that, has my dollar.

I second your opinion. The dragging of tidbits of information has been going on for far too long.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 23 February 2016, 19:38:36
 [watch] And waiting.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 24 February 2016, 06:18:07
Maybe GW bought CGL and introduced the "not moving the plot forward" model  ;D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 24 February 2016, 15:53:42
Since this is getting a bit less than wolf related, let us swing back around to something more lupine.

We have recently seen the medium omni gap in our production filled with a new design, the Skinwalker. Have any of you had a chance to use it yet? What did you think of it's performance? What mech(s) do you like partnering it with?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 24 February 2016, 17:31:07
I had a Ryoken III show up in a game recently. It ate a Gauss Rifle to the head from an RAF Doloire early in the battle.

That told me that it can't take a Gauss Rifle to the head.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 24 February 2016, 17:58:35
Well that merely puts it in the company of nearly every other mech in existence.

I could swear though, that being armored in Ferro Lamellor ought to atleast give it a chance of taking one on the chin like that.

(Wait, nope, 1 point off of every 5pts. that's still 12 in the head, nm)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 February 2016, 18:33:02
Yeah, a full on hardened head is the only way to survive.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 25 February 2016, 08:40:58
Yeah, a full on hardened head is the only way to survive.
Or go to the super-heavy ranks. Or a torso-mounted cockpit.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 05 March 2016, 15:13:21
Perhaps IlClan is being delayed because the PTB are no longer certain that they want to take the storyline in the direction of Clan Wolf conquering Terra.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 March 2016, 19:46:22
I think at this point it's more about a bunch of succession wars navel gazing.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 06 March 2016, 04:51:07
yeah, it's awful that CGL makes products that people want to buy
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 06 March 2016, 06:56:51
yeah, it's awful that CGL makes products that people want to buy

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but there was probably a less aggressively sarcastic way to put that, dude. I like you and Steve both and I think you're both capable of civil discussion, but that's not a great way to start one.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 06 March 2016, 07:07:48
I agree with the point you're trying to make, but there was probably a less aggressively sarcastic way to put that, dude. I like you and Steve both and I think you're both capable of civil discussion, but that's not a great way to start one.

Yeah, I know. My fault, shooting off my mouth like that.

Point is, there's probably a number of reasons why ilClan has been bumped down the schedule so much, and there's probably any number of good reasons why CGL is working on the current products that they are rather than it in specific. I can't say why, and I can imagine that a lot of them are down to a combination of sales, cross-marketing with other Battletech products (Especially computer games) and other factors that we're not privy to. I can imagine that Topps being the final owners of the Battletech franchise also means they get some influence on the decision-making process, which again is well over our heads.

Steve, I'm not trying to sound rude or aggressive here, but your constant whining about it at every chance you get does not help the situation any. Don't get me wrong; I'd like to see it released as well, and I would like to see the storyline advance. But constantly attacking the writers, the company and any release that isn't the product you want, while also effectively denigrating products that other people are excited for doesn't create a positive atmosphere, nor does it actually constructively contribute to discussions.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 06 March 2016, 07:33:20
I think those are all totally fair points, and as often happens I feel like I'm kind of on both sides of this one. On the one hand, I certainly have no illusions that CGL is under any obligation to create products that I specifically am interested in (or any other specific fan, for that matter). The fanbase has a variety of interests, lots of people like the Succession Wars era or pre-Jihad stuff in general, and I certainly don't fault them for wanting to throw those folks a few bones since they probably were just as uninterested in the Jihad and 3145 stuff when that was the focus as I am in the SW and Clan Invasion stuff (although I am looking forward to the 1st/2nd SW Historicals just cuz I love a good Historical). And I don't envy the position that CGL is in, having to balance those various competing interests and still keep a relatively small fanbase interested enough for BT to continue to be viable; it's why, even though I have zero interest in Alpha Strike and products supporting it, I'm glad CGL is making bold moves like that to bring in new players and cater to the less detail-oriented. I personally am willing to be patient while they work on the moving-the-story-forward stuff.

On the other hand, I can see why not everyone might be willing to extend that patience. In a few months the ongoing story will have effectively been "on hold" (not counting the little teasers we got in the TRO 3150 fluff) for as long as the period between the end of the FCCW and the beginning of the Jihad (or Forever67, as I sometimes think of it), which was from 2002 to 2005; and unlike the relative lull/stasis that existed at the end of the FCCW, the current story's hold point has a whole lot of plates spinning at once. I can understand why folks would be frustrated not to see some of that moved to a similar lull point; it can feel like getting halfway into a story and then being told you have to wait years and years for the rest of it. Now, I agree that it's not really fair to denigrate CGL for choosing to focus on other parts of the setting at the moment, but at the same time no fan is under any obligation to be happy about that fact. Ultimately, it's up to each individual player to decide whether it's worth the wait; I know I'll wait it out, but I can't fault others for not making the same choice.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Miz Anna on 06 March 2016, 08:52:23
I'm in kind of a funny position here, forex, my TRO:3150 should arrive tomorrow, I'm painting Dragoons, Wolf Empire, and Wolf Hunters minis for DA, but I'm so totally jazzed that we're going to get SW books, oh - if we get Era Reports for the 4th Secession War-timeframe - and plastics that I can use to make Nasty and the Black Widows, you'll hear how happy I am from wherevers you are. :)

I guess one way I can put it is this, I like historical minis as well, I can enjoy painting my British for the Victoria-era, and 101st Airborne for D-Day in the same session, and really Battletech is the only sf game I can think of that gives me the same feels, I'm also painting Dragoons for Misery/4thSW while I'm painting Wolf Empire. I love that about Battletech, that I get those same feels. :)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 29 April 2016, 20:47:08
Just checking in.Have we been killed/won yet?.Anything SOLID on the IlClan yet? I saw the new dice  ::)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 30 April 2016, 05:49:49
No, no and nice aren't they.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: bobthecoward on 01 May 2016, 12:57:36
I'm late to the party. Anyone use this name?

License to il
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: GarageBay9 on 02 May 2016, 06:05:24
Just checking in.Have we been killed/won yet?.Anything SOLID on the IlClan yet? I saw the new dice  ::)

Honestly?

I think they wrote themselves into a corner and are back-filling with Age of War stuff while they figure out what to do beyond 3150.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 02 May 2016, 12:55:12
Herb is pretty consistent when he says that post-3150 got canned because of a violent negative response by a minority of posters on the forums.  Despite popular misconception, he doesn't actually lie about things.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sartris on 02 May 2016, 14:25:59
Herb is pretty consistent when he says that post-3150 got canned because of a violent negative response by a minority of posters on the forums.  Despite popular misconception, he doesn't actually lie about things.

my sense of timing might be badly off on this, but i believe the blurb for ilClan on the coming releases page was added well after the 3250 guanostorm. I think they know what they want to do but work has slowed to focus on the Combat Manuals and other alpha strike stuff
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Maelwys on 02 May 2016, 15:09:03
Herb is pretty consistent when he says that post-3150 got canned because of a violent negative response by a minority of posters on the forums.  Despite popular misconception, he doesn't actually lie about things.

I thought the dislike was for a possible time jump to 3250, rather than "We don't want to see anything post 3145." There's a big difference between the two concepts.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 02 May 2016, 15:10:05
my sense of timing might be badly off on this, but i believe the blurb for ilClan on the coming releases page was added well after the 3250 guanostorm. I think they know what they want to do but work has slowed to focus on the Combat Manuals and other alpha strike stuff

While I think you're correct, I also wonder if they have had a change of heart about what is the story they want to tell post-3145.  The seemingly sudden switching of gears to look backwards in BattleTech's timeline may be a way to help give time to reevaluate and if necessary adopt new plans for the future of the storyline. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Elcor05 on 02 May 2016, 16:10:57
I thought the dislike was for a possible time jump to 3250, rather than "We don't want to see anything post 3145." There's a big difference between the two concepts.

Can anyone fill me in on what happened there?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 May 2016, 16:13:42
IIRC it was . . . 100 year jump, new weapons so superior to everything else they retire the old PPC, etc but the number is down to 16 or something.  New equipment is so superior to everything your favorite Timberwolf is now the equivalent of trying to use a old IBM typewriter in the office.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 02 May 2016, 16:32:22
Different complaints seemed to focus on different rumors.  AFAIR the biggies were:

Time Jump- we just had a leap from 3085 to the Dark Age.  An even bigger leap of 100 years would be more of the same, but only MORE so.  And/or there's a perfectly good setting in 3145 so why throw it away with a time jump?

"Rules reboot"- establishing a new, 2nd ED boxed set-sized weapons catalog to replace all the weapon diversity of TW/TO (and maybe SO) definitely did not sparkle with some.  We didn't know whether there was actually going to be a rules reboot, and if so whether or not TW/TO would be backwards compatible, but there was alot of fear that there would be a reboot and that said reboot would render everything you own now unusable in the new rules.

I find it a bit telling that TPTB are willing to let it "be known" that the former is no longer on the table, but they're much more coy about the latter.  Then again, since a rules reboot was never actually a for-sure, known thing that was being planned, there may simply be nothing for TPTB to refute.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 02 May 2016, 17:05:13
Can anyone fill me in on what happened there?

Someone broke NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and told a buddy about some very early concepts for a 100-year time jump. Said buddy then blew up the forums complaining about it. The line developer was forced to bring it into the light far too early; the project was barely months into a five-year (IIRC) development plan. Fan reactions were actually rather positive, but a loud-mouthed few got on their soapboxes and decried the whole thing, despite "the whole thing" not being finished yet. Contrary to rumor - and yes, Herb himself - it wasn't fan reaction which canned the project, but internal politics at IMR/CGL...but those few jerks certainly didn't help.

I'd rather not go into specifics on the 3250 setting, as I was under a NDA myself, and I don't want to reveal anything that might still be in the upcoming IlClan sourcebook. But I can confirm that work was being done on a new generation of technology. The goal was to semi-reset things to where a new boxed set could serve as a full introduction to the universe, much like the original BattleTech games, and new players wouldn't have to buy a set of hardback books to know what each bit of equipment does. The new tech would be superior to what we see now, but not so overwhelming that you couldn't mix it up in games. The "16 weapons" would all be new; nobody was planning on cutting out anything that had been published.

Another very important thing to point out is that, in general, fan opinion of the Dark Age era is pretty low. I ran a poll in the General Discussion subforum about what eras people want to see developed further, and nearly 50% of votes were either for the end of the Dark Age and into the presumed ilClan era, or for a time jump past it. Indeed, if we ignore the First Succession War (since it's getting a sourcebook today, if everything goes well), the top vote getters were End of Dark/IlClan (at an astonishing 36.2%), Third Succession War (10.2%; ****** nostalgia votes), Time Jump past ilClan (6.7%), Stay in the Dark Age (6.3%), and Age of War (5.5%); nothing else got more than 3.9% of the votes. I am confident that, several years ago when the 3250 was brought to light, fan opinion of the Dark Age was even lower.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: bobthecoward on 02 May 2016, 17:30:11
Someone broke NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and told a buddy about some very early concepts for a 100-year time jump. Said buddy then blew up the forums complaining about it. The line developer was forced to bring it into the light far too early; the project was barely months into a five-year (IIRC) development plan. Fan reactions were actually rather positive, but a loud-mouthed few got on their soapboxes and decried the whole thing, despite "the whole thing" not being finished yet. Contrary to rumor - and yes, Herb himself - it wasn't fan reaction which canned the project, but internal politics at IMR/CGL...but those few jerks certainly didn't help.

I'd rather not go into specifics on the 3250 setting, as I was under a NDA myself, and I don't want to reveal anything that might still be in the upcoming IlClan sourcebook. But I can confirm that work was being done on a new generation of technology. The goal was to semi-reset things to where a new boxed set could serve as a full introduction to the universe, much like the original BattleTech games, and new players wouldn't have to buy a set of hardback books to know what each bit of equipment does. The new tech would be superior to what we see now, but not so overwhelming that you couldn't mix it up in games. The "16 weapons" would all be new; nobody was planning on cutting out anything that had been published.

Another very important thing to point out is that, in general, fan opinion of the Dark Age era is pretty low. I ran a poll in the General Discussion subforum about what eras people want to see developed further, and nearly 50% of votes were either for the end of the Dark Age and into the presumed ilClan era, or for a time jump past it. Indeed, if we ignore the First Succession War (since it's getting a sourcebook today, if everything goes well), the top vote getters were End of Dark/IlClan (at an astonishing 36.2%), Third Succession War (10.2%; ****** nostalgia votes), Time Jump past ilClan (6.7%), Stay in the Dark Age (6.3%), and Age of War (5.5%); nothing else got more than 3.9% of the votes. I am confident that, several yearmanagement the 3250 was brought to light, fan opinion of the Dark Age was even lower.

I have two thoughts.

Maybe leadership was right? I know it sometimes feels like creative losing to management but maybe it was the right choice....I don't know.

Era report 3145, the field manual, and the digest were so damn good.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 02 May 2016, 17:42:32
Maybe leadership was right? I know it sometimes feels like creative losing to management but maybe it was the right choice....I don't know.

I'm sure they feel it was the right decision, but I disagree. I strongly suspect that company management - above the actual game developers, I should say - has bought into a piss-poor marketing plan. Have you seen the Classic BattleTech Twitter feed? It's so full of hashtags and buzzwords that there's barely any content. It's rather painful in ways to watch, since it reminds me so much of big corporate trying to scrabble for nostalgia dollars.

(By the way, IMR/Harebrained: your video game fans are nostalgic for games set in the 3050s, not the 3020s.)

Quote
Era report 3145, the field manual, and the digest were so damn good.

Yup. They definitely have made converts of many previous Dark Age haters. Still, the general opinion of the period is low. Just because Catalyst managed to polish a turd to a high-gloss shine doesn't mean that it's not still shit. Too much of the era was decreed from on-high, and it's a miracle the writers managed to get it as good as it is.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Maelwys on 02 May 2016, 18:22:52
Of course, some of those voters might not necessarily hate the Dark Ages, and just figure that CGL/FP/Wizkids has already covered it, and want the story to progress, rather than staying in an era that has already had sourcebooks and novels dedicated to it. A vote for ilClan may not be a vote for hatred of DA, but an expression of "Lets get to the next part of the storyline."
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 02 May 2016, 18:33:30
I'll concede that point. Accurately gauging fan interest is hard.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sartris on 03 May 2016, 14:01:39
the interest for the post-3150 era in your poll was even higher than the 36% indicated. 145 voted in the poll and 92 picked ilClan... so nearly two in three people picked post-3150 as one of their choices.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 03 May 2016, 15:04:47
the interest for the post-3150 era in your poll was even higher than the 36% indicated. 145 voted in the poll and 92 picked ilClan... so nearly two in three people picked post-3150 as one of their choices.

That's part of why I allowed two votes per person. For the past fifteen years or so, BattleTech has been a multi-era setting. Look at the last four major supplements published. One is for the First Succession War, one is split between the late Third Succession War and early Clan Invasion, one is (very) late Dark Age, and the last covers literally every era at once (IO).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: marauder648 on 03 May 2016, 15:09:56
Real Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire problems.

(http://67.media.tumblr.com/56ecb5a1470ff69d25b2f62153dc9fe4/tumblr_o6jtw30HY11ugza5uo1_1280.jpg)

(http://66.media.tumblr.com/fe4d0bc99a25c9f587fbfab4d9fc2ca7/tumblr_o6jtw30HY11ugza5uo2_1280.jpg)

(http://67.media.tumblr.com/d05af16f63fef8efe9c21f413c2ebb9e/tumblr_inline_o6k5tdQutD1r0rrde_540.jpg)

(http://67.media.tumblr.com/d6e8ac553f00939b54ba00dd7ca08149/tumblr_inline_o6ksd3CadS1rxyp13_500.jpg)

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 03 May 2016, 15:18:31
Noice!

Also, I forgot to include my point as to why my talk of post-Dark Age stuff is important to this thread: Clan Wolf was going to be a major part of the post-Republic era. Again, not going into specifics, but the general plot should be obvious to anyone who follows the Clan.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 May 2016, 15:36:40
*dig* Really?  TPTB seem interested in exterminating the Wolves as evidenced by Arc Royal being overrun.  The Crusader Wolves on the other hand . . .
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 03 May 2016, 16:09:53
*dig* Really?  TPTB seem interested in exterminating the Wolves as evidenced by Arc Royal being overrun.  The Crusader Wolves on the other hand . . .

*deeper* Yeah, the bad guys were going to win.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 03 May 2016, 19:46:18
Define good. Define bad. I would hate it more if a bad character, like Anastasia Kerensky, Danai Liao, or Julian Davion were to "win".
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 03 May 2016, 20:02:47
*dig* Really?  TPTB seem interested in exterminating the Wolves as evidenced by Arc Royal being overrun.  The Crusader Wolves on the other hand . . .

Understandably. Interbreeding with local wild dogs produces hybrids which are useless for the purposes of preserving the species. ;)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 May 2016, 06:47:10
Just because Catalyst managed to polish a turd to a high-gloss shine doesn't mean that it's not still shit. Too much of the era was decreed from on-high, and it's a miracle the writers managed to get it as good as it is.

While the story arc is good, the writing was anything but. The faction TRO releases were mishandled and if you're a fan of the wrong faction in the FM, the lack of details will majorly frustrate. I'm not going to describe all the ambiguous writing of everything post-Bonfire of Worlds as "polish a turd to a high-gloss shine", not when you have to pay for TRO re-runs that tease everything without revealing anything even remotely concrete.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 04 May 2016, 09:01:19
I was unaware that it was the job of TRO's to reveal the intricate workings of the universe. I thought their job was to talk about stompy robots n stuff.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: nckestrel on 04 May 2016, 09:29:29
I was unaware that it was the job of TRO's to reveal the intricate workings of the universe. I thought their job was to talk about stompy robots n stuff.

That is their job.  But for the game line as a whole, TR 3150 is the only book covering post 3145, so regardless of its intent, it is serving as the only sourcebook presenting the "current" status of the universe.  As a teaser, that's fine.  As an overall plan with no coming releases to do anything more, I can see why someone would object.  IE. TR3150 isn't the problem, TR3150 being all we have and seem likely to have for a long while is.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 04 May 2016, 09:46:44
I was actually being kinda snarky there, not serious.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 04 May 2016, 10:06:09
While the story arc is good, the writing was anything but. The faction TRO releases were mishandled and if you're a fan of the wrong faction in the FM, the lack of details will majorly frustrate. I'm not going to describe all the ambiguous writing of everything post-Bonfire of Worlds as "polish a turd to a high-gloss shine", not when you have to pay for TRO re-runs that tease everything without revealing anything even remotely concrete.

I understand, and I agree. I am not happy about CGL pulling that shit. I am finding it very hard to justify continued purchases; if First Succession War hadn't been written by someone I consider a friend, I doubt I would've bought it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 May 2016, 06:01:09
That is their job.  But for the game line as a whole, TR 3150 is the only book covering post 3145, so regardless of its intent, it is serving as the only sourcebook presenting the "current" status of the universe.  As a teaser, that's fine.  As an overall plan with no coming releases to do anything more, I can see why someone would object.  IE. TR3150 isn't the problem, TR3150 being all we have and seem likely to have for a long while is.

Exactly. Now I understand given the economic situation and all, that TPTB would hold back on risky or overly-ambitious release schedules. But the universe-shaking events happening to most everyone after To Ride The Chimera is on a bigger scale than the 4th Succession War and FCCW, but as a comparison we got NAIS 4th SW Military Atlas(in dual volumes!) and the Fed Com Civil War sourcebook, which were jam-packed with details down to units and blow-by-blow accounts. Those were excellent must-haves.

While for the post-To Ride The Chimera stuff, we only have the Era Report(whose niche is to provide a broad overview on major things and characters without going into details) and the Field Manual(see my previous comments).

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 May 2016, 06:07:23
I understand, and I agree. I am not happy about CGL pulling that shit. I am finding it very hard to justify continued purchases; if First Succession War hadn't been written by someone I consider a friend, I doubt I would've bought it.

I'm not saying Historicals are bad products(Reunification War was great, Op Klondike set a new standard for me) but it's really weird seeing First SW and HB:HK getting released when ilClan is what most people would be waiting for.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Gaiiten on 05 May 2016, 08:04:07
The next step will enter undiscovered land, this will be of great risk for CGL.

They must be successful. If not, Battletech is finished.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 May 2016, 10:22:27
Might I suggest they increase the IP visibility through more videogames? MWO and Battletech are in their own niches, but if more SP-focused games are available, market share and support would increase again.

Look what Dawn of War did for 40K. And now the 3rd one just got announced, with all 3 games not even needing to jump on the MMO bandwagon.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 May 2016, 13:00:02
Of course, some of those voters might not necessarily hate the Dark Ages, and just figure that CGL/FP/Wizkids has already covered it, and want the story to progress, rather than staying in an era that has already had sourcebooks and novels dedicated to it. A vote for ilClan may not be a vote for hatred of DA, but an expression of "Lets get to the next part of the storyline."

This. Almost exactly this.

I have little beyond contempt for everything from 3132 until the novels start focusing on oriente. But by the time we reach FM3145/Bonfire of Worlds, we've pretty much broken free of all the terrible crap that got established early on in the dark ages, the focus is on the full stage of the inner sphere again, we're seeing stories about the big movers and shakers rather than some dude with a lawnmower he turned into a technical, and it's finally starting to taste like battletech again...

... and we want to throw it all out, just when it's getting good? for a Timeskip? So far, every time skip we've HAD we've gone back and filled in what happened after the fact. 3039? filled in. the period between the end of the jihad and the start of the dark ages? disappointingly filled in. the early succession wars? we just got a sourcebook for that, another one's in the works.

Seems inevitable to me that we'd see another "fill in what happened during the timeskip" book. So, rather than jumping ahead and backfilling, and either straightjacketing ourselves, or creating potential retcon problems (i.e. Were the clans fighting Introtech foes like the Blood of Kerensky novels detailed? or was Advanced tech a thing, like the 3039 soucebook put forward) why not do something battletech hasn't done before? move linearly between major eras.


Now, in a futile attempt to make this thread more wolf-relevant, I hear tell from friends who bought the 1SW sourcebook that the framing device for the book is a document prepared by a Paladin in 3150, and they reference the Fortress Walls still being up as of 3150. However, it does not state a particular date and time in 3150 that the walls are still active at. TRO 3150 gives us a foreward by Tucker Harwell, and that one, dated January 21, 3150 IIRC, references the walls being down.

So, I think this means that the Fortress Walls come down no earlier than Jan 1 3150 (and likely later than that unless the 1sw doc was published at 1am after new years eve) and no later than Jan 21 3150.

ooooor that much like the Tomahawk II not appearing on our RATs in FM 3145, it might just mean that the Left hand doesn't know what the Right is doing once again. *shrug*

and in other news, I finally got the Wolf Logo pin that Arlith picked up for me at Gencon last year  :D I'll have pictures of it soon, I'll link them here.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 05 May 2016, 15:36:33
Might I suggest they increase the IP visibility through more videogames? MWO and Battletech are in their own niches, but if more SP-focused games are available, market share and support would increase again.

Look what Dawn of War did for 40K. And now the 3rd one just got announced, with all 3 games not even needing to jump on the MMO bandwagon.

You can suggest whatever you want, but there already is a new video game in the works, and its influence seems to be turning the clock backwards for the board game.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sartris on 05 May 2016, 17:07:20
You can suggest whatever you want, but there already is a new video game in the works, and its influence seems to be turning the clock backwards for the board game.

Combat manuals set in 3054
Dice sets with a 3025 theme (units in the hbs game maybe?)
Branding matched with hbs game for #SYNERGY
Rumblings materials focusing on post-3145 (ilClan, spotlight on) delayed

brace yourself. the soft reboot is coming.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 05 May 2016, 17:51:09
So, rather than jumping ahead and backfilling, and either straightjacketing ourselves, or creating potential retcon problems (i.e. Were the clans fighting Introtech foes like the Blood of Kerensky novels detailed? or was Advanced tech a thing, like the 3039 soucebook put forward) why not do something battletech hasn't done before? move linearly between major eras.

There should still be time jumps for eras of relative peace.  But agree that it would be great to see eras of significant warfare proceed linearly and avoid major backfill going forward.

With the Clan Homeworlds, we could also see parallel but unrelated story arcs going forward, as happened with the WoR in the Homeworlds and the Jihad in the Inner Sphere.

Would be cool to establish another one or two more geographic areas for parallel but unrelated story arcs.  If the Fortress "walls" stayed up, it would essentially create a third if the Republic turned on itself in a civil war within those "walls".

(And then the Wolves can come sweeping in, establish the ilClan, and recreate the Star League... yeah, that's the ticket!)

FWIW...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 05 May 2016, 18:40:43
*snip*

You're making a big assumption here, and that is there are stories left to tell in the Dark Age. There are not. All of the products we've seen for the era were moving towards IlClan and whatever the next era was going to be. If the brakes had been applied sooner, this would not be an issue, as the story could've been rewritten to slow down the pace. As it is, the third act of the Dark Ages has already begun, but we're left without the final resolution.

The really frustrating thing is that the new video game is going to take a year or two to finish anyway, so why not use this time to close out the Dark Age on the boardgame side of things, then see if a reboot to 3025/3050, a continuation of 3150+, or a time jump to something new is the best option.

Branding matched with hbs game for #SYNERGY

Brand management is an important part of marketing, but the first thing is having a product to sell. When I see a Twitter ad campaign that consists of mostly buzzwords and hashtags, that tells me that the product is inferior. It tells me that there is no care involved, just the minimum effort needed to have something to sell. It tells me that the people involved have not done their research.

Here's a recent "synergy" tweet from the CGL Twitter/Facebook feed: "RT @WeBeHarebrained: ‪#‎Battletech‬ fans! Meet the ‪#‎MechWarriors‬ of DeathFromAbove! https://t.co/hsUSziQMoM" Handle, hashtag, buzzword, hashtag, product.

The preview for the linked video is even worse: "BattleTech Death from Above on the HyperRPG Twitch Channel In partnership with Jordan Weisman, the creator of BattleTech, HyperRPG on Twitch.tv, @Hyper_RPG on Twitter presents Death From Above, a new way…" BattleTech is mentioned twice. Death From Above, mentioned twice. HyperRPG, three times. Twitch, twice. Actual content is cut off in favor of branding, and that's the Wrong Answer. (The video itself is utterly cringe-worthy and barely watchable, of course; when I think BattleTech, I think royalty-free jazz, right?)

Sadly, I think BattleTech is in the hands of the marketing wonks now, and they're using a plan from 2010.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Gaiiten on 06 May 2016, 15:28:58
With the Clan Homeworlds, we could also see parallel but unrelated story arcs going forward, as happened with the WoR in the Homeworlds and the Jihad in the Inner Sphere.
Would be cool to establish another one or two more geographic areas for parallel but unrelated story arcs.
THIS.

This would be great.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 May 2016, 15:41:49
Sure, and the product cost for the fans of the what . . . four Clans? . . back in the Homeworlds would have to pay a heavy price tag to make it worth it.  Its why they cut down the number of Clans, along with cutting down the number of factions, because products that did not having something about a individual's favored faction did not have as much appeal.  Same reason we were told we would never get individual FMs again, rather FM3145's combined format.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 06 May 2016, 21:23:45
You're making a big assumption here, and that is there are stories left to tell in the Dark Age.

I'm making the assumption that there will be things that happen during whatever timeskip occurs. That Battletech has never seen a period of time in which absolutely nothing happened. I'm suggesting that rather than coming back in 6 months, or 6 years, and detailing the War of 3199, we just go from the conclusion of the dark ages, straight to the next little thing, and from there, to whatever significant events come after that. Jumping WAY ahead, and leaving those things un-detailed is REALLY unappealing to me after how things went with the jump from Jihad to Dark Age.

As it is, the third act of the Dark Ages has already begun, but we're left without the final resolution.

And this is exactly why "Forever145" is so much worse than Forever67 was. At least in 3067, the majority of active plots were either wrapped up, or too early to call anything but foreshadowing. There wasn't the agonizing cliffhanger.

The really frustrating thing is that the new video game is going to take a year or two to finish anyway, so why not use this time to close out the Dark Age on the boardgame side of things, then see if a reboot to 3025/3050, a continuation of 3150+, or a time jump to something new is the best option.

In this, I more or less concur with you. It would be so much better if they just concluded the active storylines and left the future open, whether that's continuing with or without a timeskip, whatever they decide on.

Sadly, I think BattleTech is in the hands of the marketing wonks now, and they're using a plan from 2010.

So how do we convince marketing wonks that it's in their best interests to end the cliffhanger before navel gazing on the succession wars until the end of time?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 06 May 2016, 21:30:06
*shrugs* I have no idea. BattleTech is in the hands of the investors now. I'll still finish up my collection and keep painting my little robots, but my emotional investment in the game is about done.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Gaiiten on 12 May 2016, 14:50:25
Sure, and the product cost for the fans of the what . . . four Clans? . . back in the Homeworlds would have to pay a heavy price tag to make it worth it.  Its why they cut down the number of Clans, along with cutting down the number of factions, because products that did not having something about a individual's favored faction did not have as much appeal.  Same reason we were told we would never get individual FMs again, rather FM3145's combined format.
True.
However, the Hoemworlds could be used to introduce some more experimental concepts and to enlarge the universe. Independent from the Inner Sphere. Somekind of a testbed.
So they could win new buyers and improve the fanbase.
IMHO the concentration on the Inner Sphere is boring.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 May 2016, 18:05:24
I am not disagreeing . . . merely giving the company line.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 June 2016, 03:30:06
A couple of things tonight . . .

Walked into the state's main con to find the evening's BT scenario was Hesperus!  Wolf Empire vs Jade Falcon & Hell's Horses.

Wolf-
Alaric Wolf/Savage Wolf A
Star Colonel Marcus Radick/Warwolf Prime
Summoner B
Shadow Hawk IIC 4
Wulfen H
2 points of Warg
Carnivore
Asshur

Falcon & Horse
Malvina Hazen/Shrike 'Black Rose'
Thunder Stallion
Grand Summoner Prime
Eyrie
Carnivore
Ishtar
Ironhold 'Fire' x2

My heavies backed up the Carnivore which was traveling down the center of the road headed into the edges of a town the Falcons held.  The Wargs were positioned to their right flank in some hills with the cavalry forces taking the left flank.  Fire was initially exchanged between the Carnivores (I thought mine was parted out of range, 22 hexes oops) and then Alaric and the Warwolf also tried to pile on the Carnivore.  A few hits where exchanged while no fire was spread on the left where cavalry units had closed up to some hills.  Wargs were trudging forward on the right.

Next turn was bad for the Falcon Carnivore which was a bit of a better gunner than the Wolf tank . . . but it was the Carnivore and a Ishtar against the Wolf Carnivore, Alaric, Warwolf and Summoner B with the Shadow Hawk IIC 4 using some ER ATMs (that missed).  This is where it got bad . . . I cannot remember if the Carnivore connected with one or missed with both (miss I think) but the Wolves pounded on the Falcon tank.  Playing with the TacOps rules, the Falcon still took motive damage and some stabilizers for the ERMLs.  The Ishtar peeled off to support the flank where the Thunder Stallion was trying to get around the edge to see the lights coming its way.  Malvina leaped to the top of a L1 building and unloaded everything at the Wulfen 8 hexes away in heavy woods after it had ran into them.  Big light show, everything missed the Wulfen.  The Wulfen did not miss, putting 2 iHML into the front of the Ishtar.  Malvina's mech was glowing (21 overheat, survived rolls), the Falcon Carnivore was badly shot up and the Eyrie and Grand Summoner had not gotten into the fight.

Next turn the Wulfen ran past the Thunder Stallion to park 3 hexes behind the motionless Shrike.  The Asshur passed the Thunder Stallion as well, which found the only target available to it the Shadow Hawk IIC 4.  Supporting the TS was the Ishtar which had topped a hill to get short range shots.  The Falcon Carnivore was falling back towards the Ironholds and the Grand Summoner which was trying to close up but behind a building blocking LOS to the Wolf heavies.  The Eyrie was racing to the right flank, sniping at the Warwolf- where its shots were negated by reactive armor.  The Carnivore died without connecting again, the Shadow Hawk IIC 4 lost a arm to the Ishtar while the TS whiffed . . . and the best part IMO was the Wulfen connected with the iHLL to Malvina's torso, unfortunately the CENTER!  1 point of damage went internal, failed the critical roll.

The next turn I learned to give the Ironhold Fires space- 4 APGRs on each of 5 troopers is no joke.  I did not get hit bad, but the Asshur does not have much of a margin.  The Eyrie tried to use HE ATMs against Wargs . . . who unloaded on the Eyrie.  Combined the points hit with both their SPLs, 1 LMG and 3 of the 4 SRM3s- the Eyrie was savaged but not much was critically hit.  Alaric started drawing more attention after the Falcons decided their missile weapons were best not used against the Warwulf.  Malvina did not fire off to the point of heat problems, but she managed to strip the armor off a Savage Wolf arm and ding the other one.  Things progressed from there with damage exchanged as the Wolves started pulling back for a bit of distance while the flankers on the left got behind them.

Final turn the Eyrie stumbled past the Wargs with its limited mobility to take a position behind the backpedaling Summoner B and the Grand Summoner rushed into the midst of the other 2 Wolf heavies and Wolf Carnivore.  Alaric was singled out for everything but even though Malvina had stripped off the armor on a side torso they only made a single hit there with a SRM later, critting a XXL slot.  The Wargs took down with their remaining weapons (both points hit with SPL & LMG) after it failed its attempt on the back of the Summoner B- no rear torso armor and some internal hits that failed crit checks.  The Wolf heavies, Carnivore and Shadow Hawk IIC4 all combined on the Grand SUmmoner . . . with the last shots from the Warwolf finally killing it with a Gauss slug to the open damaged CT to take out the last internals.  The Grand Summoner seemed almost crit proof.  The Asshur was sacrificed to draw the Thunder Stallion away from the heavies with its LBX . . . which also set up the Wulfen to hit it from the side with iHMLs.

Malvina was ignored . . . you know her feelings about that . . .

Wolf victory IMO . . . JF lost the Carnivore, Grand Summoner and Eyrie while the Wolves lost the Asshur (and most of Alaric's armor).  The Wolves had removed all the Falcons from the right side of the battlefield and their most mobile units while still having their own mobility.  Sure Alaric had been hammered but he still had a lot of ER ammo left, so it would have been time to back off and the front of the Summoner B was solid.  Malvina was left as the most mobile Falcon unit remaining.

Its the first time I have played with a Warwolf . . . and I like the Prime except for those half-arse pod'd JJ.  It really was funny to see the Falcons decide they did not like firing at the Warwolf since their missiles came down to doing nothing.  Only way it would have been better was if the Crusader Wolves had been allowed to pack Semi-G ammo on that Summoner B so the Warwolf TAG (TC enhanced?) would have been in play.

I would also have liked to have some AE to give love to the Ironholds . . . the Phalanx ISV definitely looks nicer having faced those armored monsters.

Totally separate question . . .

Longinus C . . . it has a Adv SRM4 rather than IS SRM2.  Does it still have a King David?  Or did the Wolves dump the MWM for a APGR?

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 25 June 2016, 12:00:32
I actually find the Warwolf Prime a little undergunned. It is the configuration built to match the MWDA mini, and while a capable mech, it isn't the hardest hitting Warwolf Variant. I'm a huge fan of the Alpha config, it really rewards Streak Gamblers like myself.

as for the Longinus C, that's a mystery still. TRO 3150 NTNU hasn't received any record sheets yet, despite how bloody long it's been out.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 June 2016, 17:16:56
Not a streak fan . . . but the Warwolf Prime wastes 3 tons on JJ and perhaps another half ton on CASE II- maybe a ton on the TAG though if the Wolf Empire starts using Semi-G LRMs its worth it.

With another 3 or 4.5t you can make the LRMs larger and put ERML on it to use more of the TC.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 25 June 2016, 18:01:36
I'm actually a fan of tossing on a HAG (just because I love HAGs) and bumping up the LRM Racks.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 June 2016, 23:36:37
Here is a picture of the Falcon tank burning . . . right as the Wolf heavies are about to pivot to the Grand Summoner.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GuHUFJObKR8O3y0Tvjc3CNDPnsr_ZoRNZSADc9TTNYwmXueOqQmobneKNlr7aQM6wl0h2cSE_YLN=w1024-h576-no)

The Eyrie is out of the shot about to get shot up.

Second to last turn, next turn the Wolf heavies are going to all pull back along with the Carnivore.  Malvina comes over but gets ignored while the Thunder Stallion about faces to kill the Asshur spotter . . .
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 June 2016, 22:13:17
This is what I am looking at right now for a Wolf Empire force-

Atlas C
Timberwolf
Blood Reaper
Tundra Wolf
Arcas
Savage Coyote
Rabid Coyote
Savage Wolf
Warwolf
Wulfen
5 or 10 Elementals
1 Clan Med BA- Bar?
maybe a Mars Assault Tank
maybe some MWDA plastics converted to TT

Thinking about splitting it between two clusters, but which ones?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 27 June 2016, 23:00:28
What's the Atlas C's config? is that the slapdash isorla refit, or a personal custom? You might consider the Atlas II Kerensky config (Basically a mixtech Atlas II with clan guns)

I'd consider a carnivore point over the mars tank
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 June 2016, 09:11:19
Mars is the mini I have, it either goes with the Wolves or off with the Horses.  And yeah, the Atlas C is a upgrade of some of the isorla captured by . . . Epsilon? . . . whoever ended up eating a big link in the Lyran supply chain when the Wolves kicked back at the Lyrans.

Its also already painted in Beta colors, lol.

Basically I figure I have a set of Omnis

Savage Coyote
Savage Wolf
Warwolf
Timberwolf
Wulfen
and 5 points of BA for a Nova

Atlas C
Tundra Wolf
Blood Reaper
Arcas
Rabid Coyote
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 28 June 2016, 11:22:14
I pity the BA that has to ride on the Savage Coyote.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 June 2016, 11:23:32
Lol . . . slow stuff, might be some Hauberk suits if I can find it . . . hmm, I have some MWDA Hauberks I think.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: marauder648 on 29 June 2016, 06:17:21
I've found a video perfectly representing the Wolves 'enthusiasm' at Operation REVIVAL when it was agreed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTpBcHOO_Nk&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Cryhavok101 on 18 July 2016, 23:00:34
Trial of Possession, A.K.A. "How to buy a Savage Wolf, by a Savage Wolf"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Phaedros on 13 October 2016, 05:30:36
So, what is new on the Lyran and Republic fronts? Anyone kill any Spheroid surats lately?

I am currently working on putting together a Nova (so far I have a Savage Wolf and a Warwolf, and I am planning to add an Ice Ferret H and a Stormcrow, but unsure as to what the fifth 'Mech will be) with an attached Point of Carnivores for Alpha Strike.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 October 2016, 12:22:00
What BA are you using?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Phaedros on 13 October 2016, 14:51:03
Elementals, though I would use Black Wolves if they had minis. I can also use the Elementals for pre-Dark Age, so they are the best bet.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 October 2016, 15:25:51
Well, neither the Savage Wolf or Carnivores would work before Dark Ages . . .

If you wanted to go classic for the 5th mech spot you can make it an Adder.  The other side of that is if you go Invasion era it would all work (except calling the Ice Ferret something other than H) with a single point of Elementals as a Command Star.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 13 October 2016, 15:54:02
Why not go with a Wulfen? It will work as a great scout. The variants run from 18-26 points. Some go up to as much as 3 damage at short & medium, or 2 at long. They're fast, hard to hit, and omnis.

There was a MWDA figure for the Black Wolf BA you might be able to find online somewhere.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 13 October 2016, 16:55:37
I wonder if anyone has ever run a nova full of Nova Omnimechs.

After I finish their business on carsphairn my Rho Galaxy wolves will be out of stuff to do till the plot moves forward. I've already crammed way too much to fit into 3145, probably enough to carry them to 3148.

Been focusing more on MWO in my scant free time, picked up a fifth Timber Wolf. Gonna grab Vlad's hero TBR once the new rewards cycle begins. I get nothing extra if I buy it this cycle.

I did talk a friend into painting up some minis for me though, gonna get them done in Rho/15th Assault's colors.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 13 October 2016, 20:49:01
I wonder if anyone has ever run a nova full of Nova Omnimechs.

Well, now I want to...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Phaedros on 13 October 2016, 22:35:43
Why not go with a Wulfen? It will work as a great scout. The variants run from 18-26 points. Some go up to as much as 3 damage at short & medium, or 2 at long. They're fast, hard to hit, and omnis.

There was a MWDA figure for the Black Wolf BA you might be able to find online somewhere.

I have been debating a Wulfen H, especially the high-damage config, however, I want to try to run my force as WYSIWYG, so if you have any ideas on which OmniPods in the IWM online store would be good for it, let me know. :)

The only Black Wolf Battle Armor made for DA/AoD was in the Wolf's Dragoons Gamma Regiment set, and those came out towards the end of MechWarrior Clix, so not many floating around, and quite a bit more of an investment than a Star of Elementals.

Well, neither the Savage Wolf or Carnivores would work before Dark Ages . . .

If you wanted to go classic for the 5th mech spot you can make it an Adder.  The other side of that is if you go Invasion era it would all work (except calling the Ice Ferret something other than H) with a single point of Elementals as a Command Star.

I know the Savage Wolf, Warwolf and Carnivores cannot be used pre-Dark Age, that's why I have a Timberwolf. :D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 14 October 2016, 08:59:35
I have been debating a Wulfen H, especially the high-damage config, however, I want to try to run my force as WYSIWYG, so if you have any ideas on which OmniPods in the IWM online store would be good for it, let me know. :)
Well, you can use the same gun arm for the HLL, maybe cut the barrel shorter to make it obvious it's different. If you want to go a bit wacky, you could use the Solitaire main guns for the shoulder-mounted HMLs, although it'll look odd. There's also the heavy lasers from the Pariah A sprue or the ERPPCs from the Septicemia E mini that could be cut for your use.

Quote
The only Black Wolf Battle Armor made for DA/AoD was in the Wolf's Dragoons Gamma Regiment set, and those came out towards the end of MechWarrior Clix, so not many floating around, and quite a bit more of an investment than a Star of Elementals.
True, although if you did get some, you could separate them out to a single BA suit per point, so you'd only need 3 of the MWDA figures.

Quote
I know the Savage Wolf, Warwolf and Carnivores cannot be used pre-Dark Age, that's why I have a Timberwolf. :D
Along those lines, instead of a Wulfen, you could bring an Ice Ferret or Phantom as an earlier recon/harasser for the 5th member. The Ice Ferret has one more point of armor (5 vs 4) and the same structure (2), but the Phantom gains an extra 2" of movement (but the same TMM of 3). Both have variants from 23 to 33 or 34 points. Neither one is great a long range, a max of 2 damage for the Ice Ferret and 1 for the Phantom, but each has multiple variants that can get 4 damage at medium/short. The Phantom H gets 5/1/0 damage and the C gets 6/6/0 damage. You may only get 1 or 2 shots with them before they become priority targets, but they will put a hurting on anyone and can one-shot some lights & mediums.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 October 2016, 11:48:01
I am thinking of organizing a Warden Wolf secondline trinary for late Jihad, something like the original make up of the 13th Wolf Guards- surviving oldsters along with some ristars fresh out of the sibkos.  It would be provisional with the tempo of operations, plugged into Clusters that had taken serious losses so it would bring them closer to their paper strength.  For that purpose it will be heavier machines drawn from replacement equipment in that timeframe.

Legacy Provisional Trinary (Scarred Wolves)
Logo- One-eyed scarred wolf

Command Star (Headhunters)
Hellstar
Cygnus
Glass Spider
Warhammer IIC 3
Elemental, w/transport

Strike Star
Marauder IIC
Scylla
Hunchback IIC 3
Guillotine IIC
Elemental, w/transport

Rogue Star
Arctic Wolf
Pack Hunter
Solitaire
Locust IIC 4
Veh Point- SM1 Tank Destroyers

I can put most of this force on a table- just missing a Cygnus, Glass Spider, SM1 Destroyers, and Locust IIC 4 though the MWDA one could stand in.  And the Scylla needs to be put together, lol.

This sort of trinary would, IMO typically move to action with the first two stars forward and the Rogue star behind them waiting for contact to be made.  Once contact is made they swing left or right to flank the opposition.  Biggest downside is a lack of ECM or even sensors . . . which tends to be the case on older Clan secondline gear- might replace the SM1s for something appropriately old with it, I was originally thinking SL-era machine.  Transport would be a Mercer & Confederate (Rogue Star) and the unit would be veteran/fanatical.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 18 October 2016, 12:47:41
Me, I like a little more homogeneity in my units(personal preference), stuff that can share parts, but at least they seem to more or less move with each other. And you'll get that no-two-alike thing in the Jihad I suppose.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 October 2016, 12:58:21
Well, they do have weapons in common . . . 5 mechs using ERPPC, 2 with ATMs, 2 with Small Heavy Lasers, 2 use SRMs and a few with MPLs & ERMLs for secondaries. . .

Most ammo dependent are the Glass Spider and Arctic Wolf followed by the Scylla, Cygnus and Hunchback IIC 3.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 13 November 2016, 13:05:22
Inactive Bloodname discussions elsewhere got me to thinking.

Thanks to not really doing anything in the MWDA Lore that CGL can not contradict, the Council of Six is pretty ineffectual, and the IS Clans are pretty free, more or less, to do things however they please. The Bears and Exiles have created Spheroid Bloodhouses and seemingly faced no repercussions for it.

So, what I've started pondering is what it'd be like if the Wolves started reactivating Widowmaker bloodlines to bulk up the number of Trueborn warriors they have now that they are residents of the inner sphere and there is a much larger population disparity. Obviously there's a ~15-21 year lead-time on sibkos.

Personally I think my approach would be to reactivate the more prominent Widowmaker lines, but alloy them with mid-tier Wolf lines. I think this would provide a chance for strength, while taking steps to redeem the lines from the tarnish that comes from them having to be absorbed to begin with.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 13 November 2016, 13:13:28
Why would you bother reactivating old bloodlines?  It's not like there's a limit on the number of sibkos you can make out of one particular genetic legacy.  If the issue is "not enough Trueborns", just make more from the bloodlines already active.  Two hundred years of selective breeding later, any active bloodline is going to be significantly better than most Widowmaker bloodlines.  And if they're not, you might as well give up on the concept altogether because it's clearly not working.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 13 November 2016, 14:03:18
Here's where I'm coming from on that...

Yes they are going to be a bit dated due to inactivity, HOWEVER, they are still going (in the clan mind) to be better than only relying on Spheroid warriors, quiaff? Alloying them with middle-of-the-road active wolf names is going to compensate some for their datedness, the reactivated lines will simply provide a novel source of genetic possibilities.

Simply jacking up the number of sibkos produced for already active names is going to make competition over bloodnames absolutely savage, to a frankly unnecessary degree. Either you wind up with a lot of disenfranchised unbloods with no viable route to glory, and I can even see having a bloodname becoming something of a target-on-your-back as warriors look for ways to free up Legacies to fight for. OR you decrease the value of these bloodnames by propagating beyond 25 slots, a thing which I imagine they would be reluctant to do.

Reactivating old, inactive lines and propagating your existing houses up to 25 allows you more trueborns without skewing the blood/unblood ratio in that fashion.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 13 November 2016, 14:43:22
There's no way in hell the Trueborn component of the Wolf touman is larger now than it was in the days immediately before REVIVAL, especially since Trueborn solamha are no longer required for garrison duty.  How many Bloodnames does Wolf still control?  It has to be upwards of 20, which is still 500 Bloodnamed warriors with full Bloodhouses.  Unless you want Bloodnamed warriors to be present in multiples per Star, which has never been something born out in the setting outside of things like Natasha Kerensky's personal command Star on Tukayyid, then there are already plenty of spots to go around.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 13 November 2016, 15:17:27
I am not thinking about their state today in 3145, I am thinking about a theoretical 3175, or 3195, or 3250, when it's certainly possible that the Wolves might be ilClan, and might have much more territory to oversee, duties to fulfill.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 13 November 2016, 15:21:06
At that point why wouldn't you want that kind of competition?  It's going to be the primary method of keeping warriors who otherwise have no concrete enemy under control and in-line.  The Wolf Empire has had absolutely no qualms about using freeborn or even Inner Sphere native troops into their PGCs, and it'd be baffling to think they'd stop that just because they became ilClan.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 13 November 2016, 15:32:10
I was really more interested in the "How would you go about it?" than the "why bother?", but oh well, at least it's a discussion.

Being fine with using Freeborn and Spheroid troops is hardly the same as being fine with Trueborn primacy fading out. The entire clan touman is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the realms the clans find themselves managing now. I look at the lesser galaxies and clusters of the Wolf Empire, the ones comprised of local militia forces that are held together mainly by the Free Worlders distrusting the Lyrans and the Lyrans distrusting the Free Worlders, and I start wanting every vat-born warrior I can get my hands on, and then some.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 November 2016, 17:20:33
Actually for Clan sensibilities having the extra bloodnames and making all the 'current' active bloodnames full provides a larger officer corp . . . it means you can have less unblooded Star Colonels (or none) and fewer unblooded Star Captains.

The other thing is that the number of active bloodnames and MAYBE bloodhouses dropped after the Jihad.  From that other discussion no page was ever offered to back the assertion that Invasion Wolf had not been using some Widowmaker bloodnames since the absorption.

I would expect a expansion of the breeding program, perhaps offering Bloodhouses Trials of Propagation to increase their active bloodname counts closer to 25- or at least the ones the Crusader Wolves have a controlling interest in.  The Crusader Wolves' Dark Age campaigns have offered the best chance for warriors to prove themselves in the Jihad, MAYBE the Invasion considering the taint on the Jihad.

I could also see a very smart and knowledgeable Alaric start holding Trials of Propagation to create new houses . . . structure wise IMO it might be something like the Galaxy Commanders and maybe frontline Star Colonels select a freebirth to compete in a Trial of Bloodname like a Bloodhouse would hold.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 13 November 2016, 18:42:15
I'll agree that there's no reason for the Wolf Empire to reactivate dormant Bloodnames. In fact, of the Council of Six, they're probably the Clan that has the least reason to right now. They've massively expanded their millitary, yes, but that's been done through the recruitment of Freeborns from their Empire. They've been able to raise entire galaxies from Marik and Lyran worlds, so it's not like they have a dire shortage of trueborn warriors. And they've also been happy to let such adoptees rise to the level of Star Colonel, so it's clear that they trust them. Hell, there are Freeborn Galaxies (eg Theta) that are considered to be "better" then Trueborn ones (eg Kappa).

if the Wovles feel that there is some really direful shortage of Bloodnamed warriors, then it's much easier to simply increase the active Blood Count of a Bloodname then reactivate a dormant one. Remember that by 3145, few if any Bloodnames used by the Council of Six clans have their full 25 active linages so it's not like they're going to be butting up against hard limits any time soon. Given that not even Kerensky has been able to maintain its full 25 (or 50 or whatever) Bloodnamed warriors, then clearly there's a lot of room for the current crop of bloodnames to up the count.

Finally, you have to consider that the Wolves may no longer even have the genetic material from said inactive bloodnames. Remember that their primary IS Genetic Repository was nuked by the Word on Tamar. It's entirely possible that they lost a lot of material there from those dormant bloodnames, especially given the subsequent destruction of their homeworld holdings.

On a realted note, I was surprised to find that pre-Jihad Wolf had effectively the second lowest number of exclusive bloodnames with a mere ten. It only comes up to fifteen with the five Widowmaker ones they reactivated prior to REVIVAL. I have to wonder why theirs was so particularly low.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 November 2016, 18:50:02
Yeah, that Winson was not a exclusive was a bit off . . . IMO it comes down to the ties to the Coyotes, we are given a lot they share.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 13 November 2016, 20:32:40
Finally, you have to consider that the Wolves may no longer even have the genetic material from said inactive bloodnames. Remember that their primary IS Genetic Repository was nuked by the Word on Tamar. It's entirely possible that they lost a lot of material there from those dormant bloodnames, especially given the subsequent destruction of their homeworld holdings.

Well, the Empire may or may not have a full set, but the Wolves in Exile do. Ulric sent a copy of everything they had with Phelan and the Exiles. Could always trial them for copies, or wrest them from the Falcons when Arc Royal falls.

On a realted note, I was surprised to find that pre-Jihad Wolf had effectively the second lowest number of exclusive bloodnames with a mere ten. It only comes up to fifteen with the five Widowmaker ones they reactivated prior to REVIVAL. I have to wonder why theirs was so particularly low.

Success attracts moochers?

Actually for Clan sensibilities having the extra bloodnames and making all the 'current' active bloodnames full provides a larger officer corp . . . it means you can have less unblooded Star Colonels (or none) and fewer unblooded Star Captains.

Yes, this is more of what I was thinking.

The other thing is that the number of active bloodnames and MAYBE bloodhouses dropped after the Jihad.  From that other discussion no page was ever offered to back the assertion that Invasion Wolf had not been using some Widowmaker bloodnames since the absorption.

Yeah, this is true, the plot did (for no seeming good reason at all) demand that the clans winnow their bloodnames in the wake of the Jihad/WoR. Never made much sense to me for them to be doing that. Just seemed like it was done to fit with the "Game's smaller now" paradigm.

I could also see a very smart and knowledgeable Alaric start holding Trials of Propagation to create new houses . . . structure wise IMO it might be something like the Galaxy Commanders and maybe frontline Star Colonels select a freebirth to compete in a Trial of Bloodname like a Bloodhouse would hold.

Also possible, particularly following a momentous event like taking Terra (and holding it), I could make the case of "these Freeborn warriors distinguished themselves in our campaign to take Terra, an event as monumental as Operation Klondike, they deserve the chance at recognition." AND, if he DOES take Terra, he will be ilKhan, by virtue of leading the ilClan, and Bloodname Creation IS a right of the ilKhan.

That would make for some very interesting trials though. I can see what you're going for, structuring it like that.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 13 November 2016, 20:54:59
I don't understand the "more bloodlines = more/better officers" part.  Having a Bloodname doesn't make you a good officer, being a good officer increases your chances of getting a Bloodname. ???  If you're activating bloodlines that don't perform as well due to the ceaseless march of progress and time, you're going to experience a net decrease in the quality of your officer corps, not an increase.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 13 November 2016, 21:01:49
I guess that the pre-REVIVAL Wolves were just worse at protecting their Bloodnames then anyone else. At least the Coyotes had an excuse for their small bloodname count.

Aaaaaanyway...

There are a number of reasons for the lower active bloodcount among the Council of 6 Clans. The first and foremost is the damage done by the Wars of Reaving; bloodlines being 'tainted', Bloodnames being targeted by genetic diseases, sheer staggering losses on a scale that the Clans had never experienced before and so on. The result is that there's a massive drop off in the number of warriors that are active in the Clans, and with many Bloodnames being all but extinct. There's not much value in having twenty-five active Bloodrights when there's only half a dozen warriors to hold them.

Added to that is the post-war environment that results in everyone - Clans included - having smaller millitaries. Keeping the number of active Bloodrights up would result in far greater numbers of bloodnamed warriors. The result would be a dilution of that Bloodname's political power and standing as there's going to be a greater proportional number of warriors walking around with that name. (And let's be honest here, Bloodnames are as much about politics as everything else). Reducing the active bloodcount is a way of keeping a bloodname 'strong' by stopping legacies begin handed out to every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along.

There's definitely a strong case for increasing the number of bloodrights, yes. not going to argue that. Get more of them up to their full 25 (If possible; the implication seemed to be to me that there was something 'wrong' with Kerensky) to deal with a larger warrior population, but at the same time, there's still no pressing need to reactivate dead ones. And yeah, I can see a good case for 'rewarding' Freeborns/Adoptees with the formation of their own bloodname, but again, that's far more practical then reactivating a dead bloodname. After all, if it's dead, it's probably dead for a reason.

Finally, there's definitely no need for Bloodnamed officers among the Wolves right now. Again, they have Galaxies full of freeborn warriors who can never earn bloodnames. Theta has one bloodnamed officer at the rank of Star Colonel or above, and that's the Galaxy commander. Yet at the same time, by all reports, Theta has been very successful. If the Wolves were getting all whiney about a lack of bloodnamed officers, then it's the sort of thing that would have been mentioned.

I don't understand the "more bloodlines = more/better officers" part.  Having a Bloodname doesn't make you a good officer, being a good officer increases your chances of getting a Bloodname. ???  If you're activating bloodlines that don't perform as well due to the ceaseless march of progress and time, you're going to experience a net decrease in the quality of your officer corps, not an increase.

Pretty much this. More does not mean better.

Well, the Empire may or may not have a full set, but the Wolves in Exile do. Ulric sent a copy of everything they had with Phelan and the Exiles. Could always trial them for copies, or wrest them from the Falcons when Arc Royal falls.

Hey guys, we're surrounded on all sides by hostile enemies. We're busy prepping for the biggest and most important campaign of our history; taking Sacred Terra. And to do that we need to cross the invisible wall in space that eats Warships and fight an enemy that we have no intel on at all. So you know what we should do?

Send a chunk of our forces halfway across hostile space to fight our enemies for access to genetic legacies that nobody's used for a century or more?

Exactly!

Brilliant!

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 November 2016, 00:37:56
Well . . . IMO it would have made sense for them to make Trials for what was lost during the Scouring and what could not be taken from the Homeworlds in the midst of the Reavings.  The interesting story there would delve into individual Bloodhouse's power IN the Crusader Wolves, because its not as simple as sitting on Strana Mechty and sending out a message any more.  The Crusader Wolves would have to go through either some of Lyran space or fight their way through Falcon space to reach Arc Royal . . . you are talking at least a two cluster campaign- perhaps up to a light galaxy with some strong Aero assets.

Unless it was done during the period the Crusaders & Wardens were working together to build the Isegrim attack ships.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 14 November 2016, 09:49:57
A quick two cents on the issue of more Bloodnames: The Bloodnamed are basically the Clans' equivalent of nobility. As such, since the Invading Clans now have large "commoner" fighting contingents, they don't really need more Bloodnamed troops.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 14 November 2016, 11:30:59
Well . . . IMO it would have made sense for them to make Trials for what was lost during the Scouring and what could not be taken from the Homeworlds in the midst of the Reavings.  The interesting story there would delve into individual Bloodhouse's power IN the Crusader Wolves, because its not as simple as sitting on Strana Mechty and sending out a message any more.  The Crusader Wolves would have to go through either some of Lyran space or fight their way through Falcon space to reach Arc Royal . . . you are talking at least a two cluster campaign- perhaps up to a light galaxy with some strong Aero assets.

Unless it was done during the period the Crusaders & Wardens were working together to build the Isegrim attack ships.
What was lost during the Scouring? Of Tamar? Every piece of genetic material was lost, the repository was completely destroyed. Vlad hid that fact from the other Clans until his Watch mission secured the copies in the Homeworlds and the originals. They gave the Jennifer Winson originals to the Coyotes, but took everything else for themselves and left no trace behind. That's what the big event at the Kerensky Bloodchapel was, a cover for the extraction of the original copies of the founders.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 November 2016, 12:43:51
I know Kerensky's genes were smuggled out . . . but that was also not a sample from EVERY Bloodnamed or even Kerensky decanted.  So as Deadborder was saying there are chunks missing in their legacies because not everything got out as I understand it.  However Ulric sent a complete copy as of '57 (maybe '56) to Phelan to join him in the IS . . . and Natasha gave him a final set as they said good bye.

So while they may have gotten the each Bloodname Founder's original sample, and I am not sure the minors were covered as well or were able to escape, they missed all those in between.  So the warriors who were proven outstanding during Revival but died during the Refusal, be they Warden or Crusader, were lost.  Even considering if all the Bloodname founders were recovered, you miss the nearly two centuries of warriors since the Founding.  The ONLY other legacies they would be able to get would be those who were Bloodnamed in the touman . . . right as they are engaged with the Horses, Blakists and dealing with Scientist caste meddling.

They would also not have all the samples won or captured from other Clans since the Founding.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 14 November 2016, 12:58:13
From WoR pg 65
Quote
On 10 April, the First Wolf Lancers Cluster—having made the journey from the Inner Sphere specifically for the task at hand—landed on Strana Mechty. They then gathered up and escorted the entire genetic stock of exclusive Wolf Bloodnames to their DropShip. With the help of Wolf scientists, the Blood Chapels and the master genetic repository saw many of the Wolf exclusive Bloodnames removed. Because the warriors were careful in their duty and under strict orders by their Khan, few of the other Clans caught onto the Wolf actions until late in the day.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 November 2016, 13:14:09
Even that paragraph contradicts itself . . . 'entire genetic stock of exclusive' vs 'saw many of the Wolf exclusive Bloodnames removed.'  Entire is no the same as many . . . and if that was the case, why was the former Coyote charged with getting Kerensky's genes to the IS.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 November 2016, 16:54:06
How many folks have played a Wulfen on the table top against the IS?  against Clan foes?

Which model?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 21 November 2016, 19:31:05
It's difficult to use; you're looking at a 'Mech that will typically be running at 16 heat before weapons fire. With that being said, I've found that it makes a good sniper and a great way to cart Battle Armour around. Having its weapons being primarily arm mounted helps it a lot, even if they do tend to be insanely inefficient. I've had the most luck with B, but that was with careful fire cycling and avoiding the jump jets. A is powerful on paper, but is hard to use effectively given it's rather 'all or nothing' nature. IMO, this is a case where a TC'ed ERLL beats a ER PPC.

With the Wulfen, the goal is to avoid getting close to your enemy, which makes its close-in models a little dubious. H is just plain awful and can't use its weapons even remotely efficiently if the Stealth Armour is on. Hell, it cant use them that well when it's off.

Generally it fares better against IS foes just simply due to weapon range brackets. Also, look out for Eyries; while the Wulfen generally has a hueg range advantage, should one catch you up close (eg jumping on broken terrain) it will eat you alive.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 21 November 2016, 21:52:12
How many folks have played a Wulfen on the table top against the IS?  against Clan foes?

Which model?

Does megamek count, or do you need an actual table involved?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 November 2016, 22:25:13
At all . . . I actually used the H on a table top against a Falcon/Horse force . . . used the Stealth to get in close and then raced about using the buildings to block LOS and treated it like a Solitaire/Phantom H which worked pretty well.  It goes for the backshots using its speed.

But that is the only time I have used it so I was wondering on opinions.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 25 November 2016, 18:41:56
I prefer the B, but I feel bad about using them in pick-up matches. The most effective behaviors with the mech, namely picking away at your foe at top speed while maintaining range, it's not a particularly FAST technique, nor is it the most fun to fight against. Thus I prefer doing it in games against the bot, or against an OpFor who is playing with the full knowlege that the fight isn't intended to be 'fair'. I've also adopted the position of using the Stealth Armor only as an out-of-combat feature, i.e. while advancing to the fight, scouting, or retreating from a threat the wulfen is inappropriate to face.

It also helps that I am a BIG fan of certain optional rules like Extreme Range, Kinder MASC/SC, and MaxTech Move Charts. In vanilla TW, I expect it would be a little less amazing.

It's not my first choice for a clanlike fight. It is however, useful, on the ever-unclanlike battlefields of the inner sphere. Bottom like, if you want a stand-up fight, give me a moment to requisition an adder. if you refuse my batchall, well, here comes the Wulfen to sniff you out and snipe at you.

But, even more than the questionable choice of pairing an XXL heat hog with Stealth Armor, what bothers me about the Wulfen is that the old fluff prior to the release of the wulfen indicated that it was built to partner with the warwolf, and that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Likely because it's damn hard to incorporate a NARC onto that mech the way MWDA had it
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 25 November 2016, 19:48:40
It looks cooler than it performs  ;)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 November 2016, 00:56:42
haha?

I would like to see about the movement charts because for the speedsters it really does help. 

Like I said, I think you can zip in for backshots against the 3/5 and 4/6 mechs with a high degree of success.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 26 November 2016, 02:54:56
It really depends on the loadout, piloting a wulfen requires a bit of a skilled touch because of its heat/loadout. Its a great skermisher but its fighting style always felt niche to me, excelling at sniping and hit and run tactics, closing in is usually met with realizations of bad life choices as the wulfen gets taken out.
 Best way to use a wulfen? Fight like an inglorious bastard.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 November 2016, 11:04:42
Yeah, its a light mech . . . just the tech changes just make it more survivable on the modern battlefield than say a old 3025 Locust.  Its going to have to pick off around the edges just like the skirmisher as described.  Like I said the one time I got to use one the Stealth & speed let me slide along the edge of the map using woods and elevation changes to keep the TH mods up high.  Then I was past the flank which had a Thunder Stallion and a 4/6 heavy . . . which it dropped.  Throw on that once you are in your fighting range, if you need to turn off the Stealth you could (if table rules also) switch that ECM over to Ghost Targets.

But yes, I think it does come down to the types of battles . . . do you use DB?  do you fight in a phone booth or spread across several square klicks?  The Wulfen is also one of the more survivable scouts, which will matter if you use that sort of game.  Is there anything in the backfield you can send it after- hidden LRM launchers?  on table artillery units?  reloading sites?  HQ vehicles/structures?  bridges?  If fighting in a campaign, then its ability as a skirmisher is so solid IMO it would be okay picking off any retreating cripples forced into withdraw.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 26 November 2016, 14:34:05
Throw on that once you are in your fighting range, if you need to turn off the Stealth you could (if table rules also) switch that ECM over to Ghost Targets.

But yes, I think it does come down to the types of battles . . . do you use DB?  do you fight in a phone booth or spread across several square klicks?  The Wulfen is also one of the more survivable scouts, which will matter if you use that sort of game.  Is there anything in the backfield you can send it after- hidden LRM launchers?  on table artillery units?  reloading sites?  HQ vehicles/structures?  bridges?  If fighting in a campaign, then its ability as a skirmisher is so solid IMO it would be okay picking off any retreating cripples forced into withdraw.

I would like to see about the movement charts because for the speedsters it really does help. 

So, for the move charts...

Max Tech Expanded Move Chart is:

Code: [Select]
0-2    = 0
3-4    = +1
5-6    = +2
7-9    = +3
10-13  = +4
14-18  = +5
19-24  = +6
25+    = +7

Whereas Total Warfare has:

Code: [Select]
0-2    = 0
3-4    = +1
5-6    = +2
7-9    = +3
10-17  = +4
18-24  = +5
25+    = +6

which eats an entire point of movement modifier compared to the old maxtech chart.

And yeah. Generally I tend to play on 45x45 hex battlefields or bigger. I don't much care for the 1-4 standard mapsheet phonebooth, which really leaves you no options for movement or approach even when we're not talking about a fast light, much less a speedster like the Wulfen.

Ghost Targets, I try not to rely too much on anymore. MegaMek hasn't caught up with the errata, so they still retain their former effectiveness there, but the way it's been errattaed it's not much use for the Wulfen anymore (unless it's only fighting one foe, I guess?) and I try not to rely on it.

Foxx is a huge fan of doubleblind because he likes being cheeky, whereas I'm not as keen on it, but it's what gets played, so I deal. Sensor Rules help. Active Probes are love.

I do wish it had Chameleon LPS instead of Stealth Armor (yeah, the bonus isn't as potent but the heat isn't as punishing) like the Original Phantom fluff hinted at it having (and I've played phantoms with CLPS, love them as Wulfen partners)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 26 November 2016, 15:06:37
Me? Cheeky!? Never! Next your gonna spread the lie my cereal cuts the roofs of children's mouths!
 Db makes mechs like the wulfen more fun to play
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 26 November 2016, 17:26:39
Db makes mechs like the wulfen more fun to play

I'd disagree. most maps that have the amount of cover needed to make Double Blind matter much, also tend not to have clear firing lines long enough to take advantage of the ERLL. They also tend to inhibit movement speed, further hindering the Wulfen unless we can talk someone into implementing the Alpha Strike style "always gets max move modifier" rule.

No, most of the time Double Blind just means it takes longer to find each other and get into combat.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 26 November 2016, 17:57:05
The way DB works (i.e. not revealing movement even if that movement took place within line of sight but ended outside of it) means that fast Lights can exploit even infrequent cover or blocked sightlines to become effectively invisible when they're not shooting and end up wherever they want fairly unmolsted.

It only takes a trio of level 1 hills to make a Light 'mech utterly invisible (going prone is free!).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 November 2016, 19:44:48
Well if we also had actual ridges or valleys it would also matter- flanking by running off to the side out of sight.  I also like it in cities where the Wulfen's high walk makes it safer to move through the urban canyons.  Was there a PAC version?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 26 November 2016, 23:57:59
Well if we also had actual ridges or valleys it would also matter- flanking by running off to the side out of sight.  I also like it in cities where the Wulfen's high walk makes it safer to move through the urban canyons.  Was there a PAC version?

No, but I did use a PAC/2 to accomodate a NARC on a prime styled configuration like MWDA had.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 November 2016, 01:35:54
How hard was it and the Warwolf to put together?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 29 November 2016, 21:31:43
How hard was it and the Warwolf to put together?

99.95% of my experiences are megamek ^^;; I don't remember the warwolf being difficult, and I haven't got a Wulfen mini
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 November 2016, 13:35:13
So I played around last night with a veteran Wolf Empire nova against a secondline mixed regular Falcon binary.  My situation in the battle suffered from losing initiative, though Princess played a good Falcon berserker.  The battlefield was a 4x4 with Falcons on N edge and Wolves on the S, a single level 4 hill in center left with smaller hills for 'rolling hills' type set up.  Heavier woods were also to the western edge and a more open area was to the SE.

Wolf Empire-
Savage Wolf A
Warwolf C (LPL & 2 ATM9)
Wulfen H
Mad Dog III C
Centurion Omni (Plasma Rifle version)
Black Wolf (ERSPL)
Elemental (APG)
Clan Med BA Rabid
Clan Med BA Volk
Salamander

vs
Jupiter
Thunderbolt IIC
Flamberge 3 (UAC/20)
Jade Hawk
Gyrfalcon 1
Eyrie
Pinion
Arbalest
Mad Cat Mk III 1
and another med or heavy, I cannot remember which

The Wulfen with Stealth on went up the west flank, dropping the Black Wolf behind the major hill to screen it from long distance plinks.  The three heavies led up the middle with the Cent-O behind them.  All the BA was dropped off in a rough line east of the major hill when the heavies were at long range- opened up the torso mounted ATM & LRMs to contribute to the large type lasers.  Then I started losing init.  When the Wulfen had bypassed the Falcon's main line but since the Bot won init it had a few units left to play with . . . and so the Mad Cat Mk III with a vet or elite pilot (random skill rolls) tried chasing down the Wulfen.  The Mad Cat III missed with everything while the Wulfen landed a HML punch to the medium's arm.  The Wulfen managed to slip behind the Jupiter to pound it with Stealth Armor off, ECM to Ghost Targets- opened the RA and ding'ed the back.

The biggest problem was the Savage Wolf took a 2nd head hit as the Falcon line got into mid range, needed a 5 to stay awake, rolled 4 . . . KO, automatic fall.  Good bye mobility . . . The BA managed to rip the Gyrfalcon up from massed SRM strikes, crippling it . . . and then all of them but the Elementals went on to reap a series of leg crippling damage in attacks.  If I had abandoned the Savage Wolf for the other Omnis of my line to retrograde the Falcons would have been crippled in the legs which would let my ERLL, LRMs and ATMs to dictate the engagement.

Even with the bad luck over the Savage Wolf and the init problems the battle likely would have ended with a crippled Jupiter as the last mech standing- mostly because it would have been too slow.  If it had come after the BA it might have been different since if it got in range they could have gone for the legs.

At the time I called it the Warwolf was missing its LPL arm and a ATM9, shooting through about half the ammo, most of it closer ranged stuff.  The Mad Dog III had worked through half the ammo, had some really weakened armor and taken damage to a leg (3/5/4 speed) but with a 2/2 pilot it was able to pass mobility rolls.  I had also lost a single BA suit when the trooper got punted by a heavy.  They had shot through all their SRM ammo making them mostly spent.

The Falcons were in pretty bad shape . . . the Arbalest was cored, Gyrfalcon had leg damage and lost a side torso (making it easy meat) before the XL took another hit, Flamberge died to engine death, and the one I cannot remember lost its head- blown off.  Thunderbolt IIC had lost a side torso, its legs torn up by leg attacks and it took a final bit of engine damage to kill it.  The Jupiter had lost a arm, taken 2 pilot hits and overheating.  The Jade Hawk had lost ATMs and the Partial Wing IIRC with leg damage.  Eyrie had its torso opened up.  The Pinion had taken leg damage.  Mad Cat Mk III had lost some armor but was probably in the best condition outside the Pinion which was pristine except for the leg damage slowing it.

Its possible the Wolf forces could have won but the rest of the mechs would have been lost and it would have come down to the BA playing tag with surviving Falcon Mechs, the Jupiter being the big problem.  Not bad for being outmassed and giving the Falcons 5k+ BV.  Should have left the Savage Wolf on the ground, it never got up anyway as the Bot went for overkill.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 November 2016, 18:46:53
You know, looking at it I think the AP Gauss or Med Chemical Lasers are the best weapons for the Wulfen to be equipped with in a furball- low heat, decent range to be used by the Wulfen's speed, and a respectable amount of damage.

Actually makes me wonder about a Phantom H with Small Chem Lasers.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 01 December 2016, 23:53:38
I admit that my own experiences with the WarWolf are somewhat skewed. Whenever I try to use one, they usually end up dying humiliating (but hilarious) deaths through freak dice attacks, like the time that one had its head popped off by an iHGR at a stupid long range 10+ to hit roll. Or when a Warwolf H had both of its iHLLs detonate in the same turn. Ouch. And then there's the infamous Pudding Wolf...

So in short, good on paper, terrible luck skewing results.

I did have one show up as a bad guy in the AToW game I run, but the PCs managed to dick around it and avoid getting in a direct fight with it. Although that lead to one of the PCs getting an inadvertent arch-nemesis, so it was beneficial to the game as a whole. The downside is that meant the Lobo ended up being more improtant to the plot then the Warwolf was...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 December 2016, 02:01:02
Yeah, the Warwolf fared pretty well initially.  It was getting attention from ATM armed mechs and the Gyrfalcon, so reducing the damage and LAMS worked pretty well.  Still not sold on the reactive armor but considering it will be fighting the Leaguers (LRMs, UACs & LGR) and Lyrans (ACs!  Gauss Rifles!) as well as Falcons it should work out pretty well . . . especially if it hunts mechs and tanks armed with those sort of systems.

Mine got gimped in one turn- lost both the LPL arm and the ATM9 on that side.  By that point it had shot through 60%-70% of the ammo and all of the HE.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 02 December 2016, 16:16:00
Reactive Armor takes half damage from artillery and missile weapons.  You're thinking about Ballistic-Reinforced armor, which takes half damage from ballistic and missile weapons.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 December 2016, 16:19:02
Then MM might be broke, I would swear it had the LBX pellets doing nothing- though I could have been thinking about the Ferro-Lam on the Savage Wolf.  I will have to check . . . really but it should work for ballistic as well . . .
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 02 December 2016, 17:48:09
It intentionally does not. (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=36098.0)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 02 December 2016, 21:29:25
I love the warwolf, used one to embaress the surat out of a tomahawk. Its a great skermisher and shoes the wolfs got tired of the dominions macross missile tactics.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 03 December 2016, 17:37:47
I prefer the B, but I feel bad about using them in pick-up matches. The most effective behaviors with the mech, namely picking away at your foe at top speed while maintaining range, it's not a particularly FAST technique, nor is it the most fun to fight against. Thus I prefer doing it in games against the bot, or against an OpFor who is playing with the full knowlege that the fight isn't intended to be 'fair'. I've also adopted the position of using the Stealth Armor only as an out-of-combat feature, i.e. while advancing to the fight, scouting, or retreating from a threat the wulfen is inappropriate to face.

It also helps that I am a BIG fan of certain optional rules like Extreme Range, Kinder MASC/SC, and MaxTech Move Charts. In vanilla TW, I expect it would be a little less amazing.

It's not my first choice for a clanlike fight. It is however, useful, on the ever-unclanlike battlefields of the inner sphere. Bottom like, if you want a stand-up fight, give me a moment to requisition an adder. if you refuse my batchall, well, here comes the Wulfen to sniff you out and snipe at you.

But, even more than the questionable choice of pairing an XXL heat hog with Stealth Armor, what bothers me about the Wulfen is that the old fluff prior to the release of the wulfen indicated that it was built to partner with the warwolf, and that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Likely because it's damn hard to incorporate a NARC onto that mech the way MWDA had it

They may have been intended to work together, but only 1 of the 3 MWDA Wulfens had the NARC-equivalent and even that one started with Artemis V special equipment instead.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 04 December 2016, 16:35:51
My knowledge of. The mwda figure is all sarna. I was fed up by the time it was released, no longer playing
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 December 2016, 01:19:49
For giggles, I tried Alaric's Returned Trial of Position fought against Colton's Demons Command Lance- Colton in her Axeman 1N (4/4), Caeser 3R (3/5), Dervish 6M (4/5) and a Blackjack -2 (4/5) against Alaric (2/4) in his Timberwolf A.  Fought on a 32x32 map, (2x2 of traditional maps) with a few gullies, some woods, a hill or two and lots of open.  The bot was very aggressive . . .

Unlike Alaric, I went for the Caeser first since it had the Gauss Rifle . . . and I would be fast enough to keep away from the AC/20.  It got knocked down as I proceeded to hit every armored location, avoiding hitting the open torsos even with MPLs and SSRMs.  Its fall meant the faster Dervish took up point, and so while trying to crit the Caeser with MPLs and SSRMs I fired the ERPPC at the Dervish . . . which blew the head off- 1 kill.  The remaining three then used a gully (string of -1 hexes) to try to chase me down.  Started chipping away at the Axeman when it was a easier shot, but the armor was getting worn and the Caeser put another gauss slug into my open RT . . . to crit the SSRM ammo- it always happens to me on this config.  So I lost a side torso and half my long range firepower and was slowed for the next turn to 4/6.  Broke past the end of the gully after giving the BJ-2 a face of MPL while I tried to avoid the SSRMs . . . especially since my CT was also now open.  Ran for the woods and circled the Demons keeping my left side to them.  Before I plunged into the light woods hex, the ERPPC finally connected again on the Caeser's CT which had avoided crits the 2 times my MPLs had hit it earlier.  Caeser is gutted and falls to the turf- 2 kills.  Which leaves the Axeman and Blackjack chasing me from the center of the map.  I put some distance on them and then went back to walking to keep the heat down and let them close up again a bit.  MPLs were doing half damage due to extreme range, but I ended up duplicating Alaric's shot on the Blackjack, a ERPPC blowing off the leg through damage.  It fell but was technically still in the fight . . . which left the Axeman, and I then brought it down with a ERPPC to the CT to open that location and MPLs to get the engine & gyro crit.  The Bot tried to get it to stand and it kept falling until blacking out.  Surgical MPLs gutted it . . . and fight over, 4 kills.

Timberwolf A- 81 armor left, 64 internal and half the mech shot away.

BV2 the fight was roughly 4500 to a bit over 6k.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 07 December 2016, 09:49:26
Hello fellow Wolves,just checking in to see if everyone still around.I see the IlClan book is still not out yet,so we are still in limbo.I will check in in about another 5 months (post) to see if we are still around.I am still building my Wolf Empire forces with all the Tomahawk II variants and hope they start making Wulfen variants as well.And we nee the BlackWolf Battle armor.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 07 December 2016, 21:44:22
Yup. Standing guard, waiting for my chance to leap past the fortress walls and claim what lies within. :D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 08 December 2016, 01:39:07
Yup. Standing guard, waiting for my chance to leap past the fortress walls and claim what lies within. :D

The last star league twinky!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: GarageBay9 on 09 December 2016, 18:49:05
Hello fellow Wolves,just checking in to see if everyone still around.I see the IlClan book is still not out yet,so we are still in limbo.I will check in in about another 5 months (post) to see if we are still around.I am still building my Wolf Empire forces with all the Tomahawk II variants and hope they start making Wulfen variants as well.And we nee the BlackWolf Battle armor.

It is cold on Ark-Royal this time of year.

And my distant cousins are breaking things, peeing in people's front yards, and embarrassing the family name... so to speak. 

Life goes on.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 09 December 2016, 21:04:52
It is cold on Ark-Royal this time of year.

And my distant cousins are breaking things, peeing in people's front yards, and embarrassing the family name... so to speak. 

Life goes on.

Just remember when the turkeys bring ragnarok to Arc Royal, you had your chance to rejoin the winning pack.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 December 2016, 02:03:38
Kind of hard to survive when you get hit with the Axe of Fiat.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 December 2016, 03:19:44
While rereading some of the novels detailing the Crusader Wolf novels invading the Republic, Marik-Stewart and lastly the Lyrans I got to thinking about some of what Alaric might have done.

He was given the task after the first peace with the Lyrans to rebuild the touman which he mentioned meant coming over all the salvage in their territory to find any equipment to field.  It would also mean making that captured or salvaged equipment as capable as possible . . .

 . . . so which IS mechs would benefit most from getting some (not all) Clan weapon upgrades.  Playing with HMP I came up with a few easy candidates-

Shadow Hawk 7M-  Pretty common from the RATs and a design that had been around for a while.  While its equipped with a LGR to get some range . . . the Clan weapon weights the same but takes a single additional crit.  The LRM rack on the machine never had enough ammo . . . but making it Clan cuts the weight letting you double the ammo and giving more mass over to Gauss ammo though I also tossed a half ton to improve the CASE to II.  Swapping the ML for a IS or Clan ERML is of course a choice though I also left the SSRM2 alone- the LGR/LRM15 for a Clan GR/LRM15 was a big enough firepower change.

Wolverine 9M-  Again, a common heavy skirmisher . . . to keep the punch but up the range of course you give it a cERPPC.  I think the extra weight should go to replacing the single SSRM6 with 3 SSRM4 for all the crit fun.

Griffin 2N/3M/4R/6S-  Flavors of PPC to Clan ERPPC for the punch.  Missile launchers swapped for Clan spec and increases in ammo.  The weird one not mentioned is the -5M LGR . . . blah, build it as a -3M arm for the ERPPC.

Rifleman 7M-  Another common LGR design, pull the Lights and a pair of IS ERML (for crit space) in the arms to replace them with Clan Gauss and more ammo gives a weaker Glass Spider for secondary forces.

Scourge WF1- Found in the League, Republic and Lyran forces, its a updated Jinggau.  Again, give it a Clan Gauss Rifle and replace the cluster of IS ERMLs in the right arm for Clan ones- with the AES that just gets more mean.

Archer 8M/9M/7S-  Of course you are replacing the LRM launchers with Clan spec launchers, the question is if you keep the Artemis systems to increase the number of hits or just use the lighter weight nature to increase the throw wait.  For the -8M I think you go with a Clan ERLL to replace the IS one.

Warhammer 8M/9S/10CT-  Or even any old -7Ms still lurking from the original Clan invasion, very simply the PPCs of whatever flavor would be replaced with Clan ERPPCs.  Not even sure any secondary weapons should really be upgraded.

Marauder 5S/9S/9M2/9W2-  Just like the Warhammer, replace the ERPPCs or in one case ERLL with Clan spec versions which are the hammers they are armed with.  In the case of the 5S & 9S the Gauss Rifle and LB-10X would be replaced with the respective Clan versions to increase ammo capacity.  I would also think the 5S should be armored up to 9S specifications.

Any half-ton openings left would use RLs to bring them up to the list weight.

All of this would provide a very solid upgrade to the weapons in the hands of Wolf Clan warriors when they are settling into their new Empire.  The replaced weapons could either be traded to the Sea Foxes to gain Clan-spec systems; used as spares for other salvage being reclaimed or spare inventory for pure IS equipment.

Of course they could always upgrade all the weapons to Clan spec like the 'C' refits of the 3050s, but I think in character/fluff it should be the primary weapon system- like ERPPCs for the Warhammers or LRMs on the Archers.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 10 December 2016, 03:43:54
To be fair to the Exiles, it's not like the Exiles could have predicted the events that occurred after the offer for reunification. I sincerely doubt that Seth Ward would have let the Exiles in on their plans to turn on the Lyrans, for starters, nor his intent to carve our the Empire. Nobody would have expected the Kuritans to hire Wolf's Dragoons, stripping much of the defense against Falcon aggression. And certainly Malvina's drive took everybody by surprise, especially given that the Falcons were supposedly still rebuilding from the Rending.

The Exiles were given a choice between maintaining their own independence and identity while remaining loyal to the nation that had harborured them for eighty years, or being subsumed into the same Clan that they had willingly divorced themselves from generations ago. Yes, they have nobody to blame for their situation but themselves, but at the same time, it's not like they could have expected that things would get this bad this fast.

In many ways, but turning on the Lyrans, gutting the forces involved in HAMMERFALL and devouring so much of their state, the Wolf Empire is responsible for the Exiles' current situation. If you want to blame anyone, blame them.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 10 December 2016, 12:14:56
They would not have to predict what Seth Ward would do, since I am referring to Alaric's "Come Home" offer, not the earlier talk of reunification. They would also have had a much better idea of the Falcon's intentions by that point. I am unsure how the Come Home Offer lines up with the dragoon departure time-wise.

And really, I can understand why the exiles might not return, but I really do not think they are in a good position to talk smack about the Imperial Wolves, is my point. a Wolf ilClan can do a lot more to stop Falcon predation upon the sphere than a dead Exile clan. Had they returned in greater numbers, they could potentially have served as the conscience of the wolf empire, and helped steer the clan.

Kindof silly to call another clan's successes embarrassing when you are so imperiled. 
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 10 December 2016, 17:10:55
Okay, in the case of the "Come Home" it's again an identity thing. The Exiles would once more lose their individual identity and culture, more likely seeing their units broken up and used to bolster Empire forces where possible. Their choice is "live as somebody else or die as yourself" and they seem to prefer the former.

After the WoR, the Wolves would never allow the Exiles to maintain a strong powerbase within a reunified clan. The lessons of the Adders and the Burrocks are proof as to why.

If anything, the Empire's turning on the Lyrans probably strengthened the Exiles' resolve to remain independent from the Wolves. Again, it's the loyalty thing; the Exiles had called the Lyran Commonwealth home for some nintey-odd years at that point. They're not going to turn around and join the Empire that's out and destroying that very same state.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 December 2016, 18:49:10
Eh, this has been done ad naseum . . .

Warden Wolves just feel hurt like the Nova Cats . . . when a large powerful warship is brought up because it is missing in 3145 books and we basically get told it was forgotten about but just consider it destroyed without any details.  Its annoying.

Really I am waiting to see what Calamity does and if she took off some Warden Wolves.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 10 December 2016, 19:02:46
For that matter, I've been meaning to ask, which Wolf/Wolf In Exile warships just fell through the cracks like that?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 December 2016, 19:17:59
Full Moon, Potemkin . . . 'no yards' ended up being the BS.  Funny considering their space station was able to rebuild the pair of Aegis & Fredasa, produces the Endo Steel both the Wolves and the Hounds need/use even after the Jihad, and built our Isegrims.

In fact the Isegrim fluff I have read indicates the Crusader Wolf ships were using the Warden station yards to repair their ships, b/c they had nothing functional in the OZ, as part of the collaborative effort against the Blakists.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 10 December 2016, 19:41:57
Just the Exiles' Full Moon?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 December 2016, 20:28:25
Yeah, everything else got smoked for 'reasons' in the Jihad.  It probably would too, but I imagine it was forgotten there too . . .
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Øystein on 11 December 2016, 08:04:46
Full Moon, Potemkin . . . 'no yards' ended up being the BS. 
The plan was always to strip the CWiE of their Potemkin - all my TO&Es I sent out during the Jihad had a special note on the Full Moon - this from the 3085 TO&E:

Clan Wolf in Exile NavyClassNotes
Full MoonPotemkin (Clan)(*) Must survive Jihad

Contrary to what some people believe - the fate of all warships during the Jihad was tightly controlled and approved by two people, the LD (Herb) and myself. I had full veto power over any unsanctioned death of a warship. :P
So feel free to blame me for all warships deaths during the Jihad - and up to and including 3145. :P
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 December 2016, 12:25:46
Strikes me as strange that it was indicated to survive, just to vanish in the interim.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Øystein on 11 December 2016, 16:00:41
Strikes me as strange that it was indicated to survive, just to vanish in the interim.
It was always intended to be traded off to the Sea Foxes, hence why it hard to survive :P

The Potemkin is a transport vessel, not an offensive warship in it's own right. It was mostly useless to the CWiE - espesially as a defensive weapon. The Sea Foxes could either turn it into an ArcShip, or for spare parts for the rebuilding of the ArcShips they did.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 December 2016, 16:10:34
Well, that's a better fate than I expected.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 December 2016, 16:14:12
Potemkins as a whole had to go, their ability to transport that many DS while armed like a SL battlecruiser was paradigm breaking.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 December 2016, 16:48:12
I admit a slight disappointment. I was hoping the Falcons would have blown it up.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 December 2016, 17:01:16
Potemkins as a whole had to go, their ability to transport that many DS while armed like a SL battlecruiser was paradigm breaking.

It would be Just The Thing, for somebody who needed to flee a doomed planet under fire though.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 December 2016, 17:15:15
Sure . . . and I can think of quite a few offensive and defensive uses for a Potemkin in a dropships=navy paradigm.  When you can carry in 5 stars worth of Isegrims, Nagasawa, Titan, Miraborgs and other assorted PWS/Assault/Carrier DS it gets unpleasant . . . for the other guy.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Øystein on 11 December 2016, 17:18:07
It would be Just The Thing, for somebody who needed to flee a doomed planet under fire though.

Assuming you'd get past the enemy blockade. And it'd be a once time use in what, 20+ years of conflict.

Better to have had a couple clusters of extra BattleMechs to fight during that period.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Øystein on 11 December 2016, 17:21:59
Sure . . . and I can think of quite a few offensive and defensive uses for a Potemkin in a dropships=navy paradigm.  When you can carry in 5 stars worth of Isegrims, Nagasawa, Titan, Miraborgs and other assorted PWS/Assault/Carrier DS it gets unpleasant . . . for the other guy.

Except you have to buy/build those ships, and maintain them. And when the enemy can use plain jumpships to deploy the same amount of PWS/Assault/Carrier DS.

Ground troops is what takes and holds planets, not warships. You need feet on the ground. And you don't have infinite resources (espesially not a restricted vassal like the CWiE).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 December 2016, 18:04:23
Yeah, load of crap but that writing has been on the wall for a while- what is funny is that it conflicts with 3145 material.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 December 2016, 18:27:19
Yeah, load of crap but that writing has been on the wall for a while- what is funny is that it conflicts with 3145 material.

How exactly does it conflict?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 December 2016, 18:30:38
He is postulating they did not have material, the implacation from 3145 is they do not have bodies.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 December 2016, 18:37:27
He is postulating they did not have material, the implacation from 3145 is they do not have bodies.

First up, he's also one of the writers who helped the very material we're discussing.

Second, check TRO3085. Post-Jihad, the Exiles were suffering chronic shortages of Clan-tech equipment. That's why they created the IS Tech Mangonel and mixed-tech Pack Hunters, and also part of why they were unable to restore their lost Mad Cat, Puma and Fenris production. That would also limit their ability to rebuild their forces, especially in light of the losses they suffered during the Jihad. They could have raised new Sibkos, yes, but those warriors wouldn't have had 'Mechs to pilot.

And that's before we look at events that occurred between 3085 and 3132, which are still not fully documented. They could have suffered other losses durign that time that they would have been unable to make up. For example, in 3099, the Exiles lost an entire cluster that were claimed by the Wolves. For all we know, they could have lost more.

Trading away a Warship that they had limited use for at the time for new material to help rebuild their forces and possibly even fix gaps in their production capabilities is a good deal.

The personell crunch doesn't occur until the 3140s, well after the point that they were suffering material shortages.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 17 December 2016, 15:53:51
So, I am looking at the Generic Clan 2858 RAT in Golden Century.

On it, the Orion IIc is listed at a 4 result, giving you an 8% chance of having an Orion IIc no matter what clan you are. Sure, usual disclaimers about RATs apply, RATs aren't absolutes, but they do have to generate a plausible force to be of any meaning at all. Do you think this means that the Wolves stance on the mech wasn't always one of exclusivity and that you'd only get one as an accolade came later?

or do we figure that it's non-indicative, and that it doesn't really speak that much towards the presence of the design in other clans?

Makes me wonder if at some point the decision to render it exclusive occurred and a series of trials ensued to reclaim possession of them or destroy them.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 17 December 2016, 18:56:25
More likely its a generified non-indicative RAT for a cheap PDF product. The use of the Orion IIC on the RAT is more likely there as a relatively generic Heavy 'Mech of the era rather then developing eighteen relatively similar RATs.

After all, the same RAT gives the Crossbow and Battle Cobra to every Clan when historically they're limited to the Vipers and Spirits
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 17 December 2016, 19:20:45
Yeah, the presence of the Stone Rhino gave me similar pause.

I lean to the notion that the RAT in question isn't really all that handy for force building.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 17 December 2016, 19:24:43
Repeat after me (c'mon, you should know the words by now): RATS ARE THERE TO PROVIDE PLAYERS WITH A FAST MEANS TO GENERATE FACTION-FLAVORED FORCES FOR A GAME. THEY DO NOT DEFINE NOR ARE THEY PARTICULARLY INDICATIVE OF CANON.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 17 December 2016, 19:32:47
...that's me agreeing, actually. :D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 December 2016, 19:49:33
Problem with that is the RAT puts a mech in the force that is 'faction flavored' only if your a Wolf- and a special Wolf at that . . . so I would agree with Steve that it makes it somewhat useless for period flavor.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 23 December 2016, 20:20:34
I mean, it WOULD be pretty cool if there was a coordinated wolf initiative to hunt Orion IIcs down and repossess or render them irreparable... That'd potentially make for an interesting pre-REVIVAL Campaign.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 01 January 2017, 06:39:03
HAPPY WOLF EMPIRE FOUNDING DAY!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 January 2017, 01:30:51
Plopped something on the table I rarely get a chance to do so- a Dire Wolf Widowmaker done up in Savage Coyote's take on the 13th Wolf Guards from nearly 15 years ago.

The Widowmaker plodded across the map- maybe 20-25 hexes- with a few turns laying into Spheriod mechs with LPL and a ERPPC with the occasional shots of ERML & at the end UAC/20.  After a Phantom stripped the armor of a Raven's leg, spotting for A4 Homing, and ally's IDF LRMs crippled the leg.  The Widowmaker put it down at long range.  A few shots to a Huron Warrior while it ran behind the next row of buildings, chasing the heavies that had fallen back in that gap.  For the final three turns the Dire Wolf walked into the gap between buildings (targets disappeared), ran a left hook which put a Marauder 5S at 4 hexes (6s for UAC/20, missed!) and then plodded after the Marauder which jumped away to beat on the fallen Phantom.  Finally tapped a Cataphract with the 20, missed the double but put the rest of the salvo except a ERPPC (only fired 1 for heat) into the lightly damaged Cataphract.  A AC/20 hit, 2 LPL, ERML and ERSL makes it no longer 'lightly' damaged so a IDF LRM spread finished off the open torso for XL death.

Even being a 4/5, only way to get it on the table under the BV limit and have anything else to play, it still did a good job.  It was the anvil to the Phantom & supporting lights hammer.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 02 January 2017, 18:02:15
I've played configurations similar to the Widowmaker and they are worth the BV....except when they're headshot on the first or second turn. *shakes his fist at an FGC or two*
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 January 2017, 00:54:44
'A few Orion IIC BattleMechs traveled to the Inner Sphere with Phelan Kell's Wolves and remain part of Clan-Wolf-in-Exile's second line forces. However, no one seems to have plans to produce this 'Mech-a possible gesture of reconciliation by Phelan Kell toward the Wolf Clan.'

-TRO 3060

 . . . what if the Warden Wolves had kept building a few Orion IICs like the Invasion & Crusader Wolves seem to have built them- a few a year.  Makes me wonder if they were hand built even if the TRO entry says WC Aux Site #2 . . . tried to compare the parts to see if they used a lot of the same stuff the Timberwolf used in its construction but unless they have part names in TRO3050u which I do not have.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 28 January 2017, 15:01:18
Well, they both use the Series III OPT Targeting & Tracking system.

Some of the technologies are different generations though. like, the Comm Suite is a Khan Series Type 2c on the Timber Wolf, but a Khan Series Type 1 on the Orion IIc. Type W3 Endo Steel Structure on the Timber Wolf, Type W2 Endo Steel on the Orion IIc.  Interestingly, the Armor Composition reverses that. Timber Wolf uses A-2 Ferro Fibrous, while the Orion IIc uses A-4.

The reactors are completely unrelated. Starfire 375XL  versus Heavy Force 300 SFE.

Weapons-wise, it's ambiguous. all of the Orion IIc's weapon types are used on one configuration or another of the Timber Wolf. Gauss, SRM-4 on the B, ERLLs on the Prime and C, LRM-20 on the Prime. They COULD be the same models, they could be different. I doubt we'll ever really know. 3050u does not give models for the guns.

What strikes me, is that the Republic apparently builds some Orion IIcs and the respective clans wolf do absolutely nothing about it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 January 2017, 15:11:29
Which, granted, is odd, but maybe they're meant for the small amount of Enclave Wolves?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 28 January 2017, 16:38:47
Given that the example we're aware of is "Burton Davion" unless Davion became a Wolf Bloodname when I was not looking, I doubt it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 January 2017, 17:05:55
Huh, must've overlooked that.

Well, just one more of those inexplicable things that the Republic got away with then.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 January 2017, 17:25:31
The Republic doesn't build Orion IICs. The ones they have are veterans of Delta Galaxy that wound up in the RAF, and there's never been even the slightest indication that they build them. I'd love to know why you think the Republic builds them.

Burton's Orion IIC is your standard "named character custom 'Mech". It's been modified at some point, possibly by it's current MechWarrior, possibly not. It's main role is to give the player a cool "hero" unit for use in a scenario.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 28 January 2017, 18:12:10
The Republic doesn't build Orion IICs. The ones they have are veterans of Delta Galaxy that wound up in the RAF, and there's never been even the slightest indication that they build them. I'd love to know why you think the Republic builds them.

Burton's Orion IIC is your standard "named character custom 'Mech". It's been modified at some point, possibly by it's current MechWarrior, possibly not. It's main role is to give the player a cool "hero" unit for use in a scenario.

Well, since the product it's from was released under my embargo against products that don't advance the storyline or detail the pre-invasion clans, I'm admittedly relying on secondhand information here. I asked my friend who DOES have the product, from whom I got the impression in the first place. Apparently they were basing it on (A) Burton's custom, and (B) the fact that the ROTS RAT from that book gives a 11% chance at getting an Orion IIC. Which is a little strange, since what, a single frontline galaxy went over to the republic from the wolves? Just how many Orion IIc's could reasonably have been in Delta to begin with?

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 28 January 2017, 18:21:28
180 Mechs in a 4 Cluster Galaxy.
60% Strength is normal in 3085.
Say 30% chance of a Heavy.
An 11%

So... 4 Orion IICs.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 January 2017, 19:02:43
Funnily enough, we had this exact same discussion about this exact same 'Mech just a page earlier.

It's a RAT.

It does not define canon.

It is not indicative of canon.

The Orion IIC appears on one RAF RAT for one part of a Historical publication that, you, by your own words, don't even own and haven't read to gage the context. All that means is that there are Orion IICs in the RAF. It does not define hard numbers.

Get over it.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 January 2017, 19:49:28
As a further annendum; canon sources give us a total of possibly two Orion IICs in RAF service. First is Burton Davion's 'Mech. The second is an ex-Steel Wolf Orion IIC from the Wolf Hunters novel which can be assumed to come from RAF stock (but is not explicitly said to be such). All that proves is that there are (were?) Orion IICs in the RAF.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 January 2017, 23:59:36
Yeah, Tal Sender who took it with him to join a merc group leading his star or binary and a binary of vehicles and some Elementals.

Wonder if the attitude is they are ok, but outside of that they track down.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 29 January 2017, 02:54:51
Thwere's never been a single indicator that the Wolves track or hunt down non-Wolf Orion IICs. Honestly, it's an excrutiatingly minor matter that would be a waste of valuable time and resources for some minor stocking point. This is doubly true in a huge envrionment like the Inner Sphere nad especially after the Blackout where there's no form of effective interstellar communication.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 29 January 2017, 06:40:50
But but... what about the factory on Terra that started making them in 3092 and has been successfully defeating Trials of Refusal from Clan Wolf ever since?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 January 2017, 14:57:53
I will give you after the Jihad they may not have but before that-

    "Clan Wolf has jealously guarded the Orion IIC design, defending their exclusive right to it in Trials of Possession and refusing all proposed trades for other technologies, despite some generous offers. Like the Kerensky bloodheritages, Clan Wolf sees the Orion IIC as tied to their honor, as the guardians of Kerensky's legacy."

The fact that they let some from Delta join Stone as well as any the Republic may have inherited from Warden units or warriors that joined- or just plain salvaged from the Jihad- would add to your point that its value was slipping.  Interestingly enough, the same seems to be applying to the Kerensky bloodname among the Crusader Wolves as of the Dark Ages.

But my questions were about the late 3050s and 3060s when the Wardens were setting up- a What If about it going more mainstream among the Wardens.  For instance, would Crusader wannabes try to take Orion IICs as isorla from the Warden Wolves?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 29 January 2017, 16:27:12
It's an idea that works in theory with the closed environment of the Homeworlds and the very limited and formal nature of Clan trials and bidding. It completely falls apart in the Inner Sphere where you have a much larger environment and enemies that don't ask before starting a fight. Even before the Jihad, trying to track down and eliminate individual BattleMechs is an exercise in futility and a waste of precious resources.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 January 2017, 18:42:29
Which is why I said I can see it going by the wayside during & after the Jihad.  It might also be linked to the waning power of the Kerensky Bloodhouse and lines among the Crusader Wolves.

Which is why I was talking more about the 'What if' of if the Wardens had started producing it more.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 29 January 2017, 23:12:05
It's not even by the Jihad. Even during and immediately after the Clan Invasion, the whole limited trial mindset becomes impossible to enforce. Between battlefield losses, salvage, raiding and so forth, tracking a single BattleMech becomes near impossible. The Wolves have more important things to worry about then tracking and eliminating individuals of some second line 'Mech, regardless of its perceived symbolic value. Doing such would be a waste of time and resources that are better spent on building and defending their OZ (Which the Wolves chronically mismanged anyway, but that's beside the point)

The waning of the Kerensky bloodname has nothing at all to do with the Orion IIC. At a guess, I'd say that it's due to the Wars of Reaving, the Jihad, and the effects both had on the Wolves' genetic stocks.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 30 January 2017, 18:34:40
Is the Kerensky bloodline waning? The last two saKhans have been Kerenskys (Garner and now Anastasia), and I'm pretty sure the latter is going to end up ilKhan. Even by the standards of that bloodline, that's not exactly a nadir.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 30 January 2017, 18:47:07
I'd vote Anna K. for ilKhan.

It was mentioned in FM3145 (I don't have my copy to hand for a reference, sorry) that the Kerensky bloodline had been in decline for some time. It had been producing smaller sibkos with high wash-out rates, with the note that this was happening across both Wolf clans.

While not out-right stated, I got the implication that Anastasia being Natasha's genetic daughter was an indicator of the problem. The Exiles being willing to use matertial from somebody who had been dead for nearly half a century flies in the face of usual clan thinking.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 January 2017, 18:52:14
Garner was written as a idiot . . .

 . . . and Anastasia's bloodlines while Kerensky come from outside the Crusader Kerensky bloodhouse- they are Warden.  Natasha's legacy may not be in use to the Crusaders due to Elias meddling, or she may have removed it period which would be why she gave a sample to Phelan as they parted.  Regardless I do not see it being held in high esteem among the Crusaders.  Ulric's offspring?  Not likely among Crusaders, and the only one we ever know of that I recall was Katya who went to the Republic.  Bonfire seemed to indicate that the Kerensky line had not been as powerful after the Jihad and that not many of the higher ranks were in Kerensky hands.  In FM3145 the only other Star Colonel or higher ranked than the two mentioned would be Star Colonel Clifford Kerensky (9th Wolf Cavalry).  Pretty sure in FMCC, and lol FMWC, I know in WCSB we had more Kerensky bloodnamed among those upper ranks.

And as I look . . . there are way too many Guards clusters as well unless Vlad or his successor was handing out that title like candy during the Jihad.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 30 January 2017, 22:35:40
Is the Kerensky bloodline waning? The last two saKhans have been Kerenskys (Garner and now Anastasia), and I'm pretty sure the latter is going to end up ilKhan. Even by the standards of that bloodline, that's not exactly a nadir.

Aha, got it. And I completely screwed up the reference.

Era Report 3145, pg 109, Ganrer Kerensky. "The Kerensky Bloodline has been on the decline for five decades ... fewer sibkos created each year ... those cadets who emerge fail to live up to the  high standards established by the bloodline's pedigree... Garner Kerensky is a rare exception to the downward trend."

So yeah, that sounds like a withering bloodline to me. And as mentioned, Garner is no longer saKhan in 3150, which is pretty high on the Dull Surprise index.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 03 February 2017, 03:10:23
Aha, got it. And I completely screwed up the reference.

Era Report 3145, pg 109, Ganrer Kerensky. "The Kerensky Bloodline has been on the decline for five decades ... fewer sibkos created each year ... those cadets who emerge fail to live up to the  high standards established by the bloodline's pedigree... Garner Kerensky is a rare exception to the downward trend."

So yeah, that sounds like a withering bloodline to me. And as mentioned, Garner is no longer saKhan in 3150, which is pretty high on the Dull Surprise index.
I blame Vlad.  If he had just been more careful with that bottle of bleach...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 03 February 2017, 09:50:08
Screwing things up is what Vlad does best.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 03 February 2017, 12:22:36
Actually, I blame Ivan Kerensky. His use of reaving trials against certain bloodhouses left the Kerenskies open to reprisal. No one is to blame for the Kerensky house's downfall but themselves.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 03 February 2017, 13:04:56
how much of the decline though is just unrealistic expectations?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 03 February 2017, 13:15:59
how much of the decline though is just unrealistic expectations?

I'm sure there's some of that.

The main problems to me are the loss of so many genetics experts from the double blows of the Wars of Reaving and the Jihad, as well as the steadily decreasing genes used. The last time new genetics were infused into the genepool were with the creation of the Kell and Magnusson bloodnames - neither of which are Wolf (Empire) names - and I guess the illegal/secret inclusion of Steiner-Davion with the creation of Alaric Ward.

The Wolves should take to heart the idea of creating NEW bloodhouses for their crop of Spheroid warriors, if those warriors prove themselves worthy. New bloodhouses lead to new genes which leads to more diversity and will hopefully slow or stop the degradation of the bloodlines.

Or maybe that's all just smoke and their training sucks.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 02 March 2017, 17:58:42
From my research, the Wolf Empire's Mu Galaxy is an entirely new formation and not named for a previous (pre-Jihad/WoR) formation. Does anyone know of any references for a colour scheme for the Galaxy? CSO doesn't have any, and while i'm sure the answer is "none given", I'm just being thorough.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 02 March 2017, 18:30:53
I haven't heard of any yet. I guess just go with generic Wolf grey for the time being.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Vlads Fangs on 22 March 2017, 06:36:18
2 month check in to see if anything is happening with the Wolves yet.Are we still in limbo?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 March 2017, 19:00:36
Anyone ever comb through WCSB to list the AFFC/Ras mech regiments captured/wiped out?  Armor?

Also have to wonder how many JS & DS they captured as they moved forward.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2017, 11:43:29
So, how 'bout that pic for ilClan's cover, of Devilin Stone versus Khan Ward?

The battle damage they're taking is something, but what's really interesting to me is that it appears there's a circle of equals around them. The Warwolf, Black Knight and... I'm not sure what the 3rd background mech is, but they are just standing around watching.

Does anyone recall how the Gencon Duel between Alaric and Devilin went? IIRC it was a wolf win, wasn't it?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Easy on 03 June 2017, 11:52:41
From my impression of the lore, Devlin Stone is actually Arthur Steiner-Davion, supposedly assassinated during the FedCom Civil War, but actually kidnapped by WoB and taken to Kittery, where he was held in a camp after the SLDF Eridani Light Horse and Nova Cat garrisons went off to fight the Civil War w/ Victor and the Blakists moved in after the dissolution and started the Jihad.


If Stone /is/ actually Arthur, then the lore does not paint him as a particularly elite Mechwarrior, but more of a political leader/strategist.


It doesn't seem like much of a stretch for a cunning trueborn to defeat an old man who largely spent his time with command staffs and military advisors.


Maybe I missed the context of the matchup, why this would be a real contest...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2017, 12:11:16
I am pretty sure the stone-is-arthur thing has been discussed to death elsewhere, and it was my impression that the  word was that no, he is not.

Regardless of whether he is Arthur or not, he IS an old man with freezer dementia. So I imagine most of the tension would come from the twenty five ton disparity between Alaric's Savage Wolf and Stone's Atlas II.

I think the idea is more "two heads of state battling at the climax" than "this is a fair fight"

I would take, say, a 2/3 Savage Wolf Prime over a 3/4 Atlas II, even if we gave it the benefit of the doubt and used the Atlas II Kerensky (figure the head of the Republic can afford some clantech for a refit).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 03 June 2017, 12:11:37
So, how 'bout that pic for ilClan's cover, of Devilin Stone versus Khan Ward?

The battle damage they're taking is something, but what's really interesting to me is that it appears there's a circle of equals around them. The Warwolf, Black Knight and... I'm not sure what the 3rd background mech is, but they are just standing around watching.

Does anyone recall how the Gencon Duel between Alaric and Devilin went? IIRC it was a wolf win, wasn't it?

That middle mech looks like a Malice.  It is interesting that there are Empire and Republic mechs making up the Circle of Equals.  It might just mean there was a Trial for Earth ala Tukayyid.  It might also mean that as of the moment of that Trial, the forces of the Empire and Republic have already merged and Devlin and Stone are settling who'll lead the new entity (presumably, the ilClan).


From my impression of the lore, Devlin Stone is actually Arthur Steiner-Davion, supposedly assassinated during the FedCom Civil War, but actually kidnapped by WoB and taken to Kittery, where he was held in a camp after the SLDF Eridani Light Horse and Nova Cat garrisons went off to fight the Civil War w/ Victor and the Blakists moved in after the dissolution and started the Jihad.


If Stone /is/ actually Arthur, then the lore does not paint him as a particularly elite Mechwarrior, but more of a political leader/strategist.


It doesn't seem like much of a stretch for a cunning trueborn to defeat an old man who largely spent his time with command staffs and military advisors.


Maybe I missed the context of the matchup, why this would be a real contest...

Whether he was once Arthur or not, he's now a different character.  And as that new character, he's always been portrayed as a kicker of asses and taker of names.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2017, 12:20:28
That middle mech looks like a Malice.  It is interesting that there are Empire and Republic mechs making up the Circle of Equals.  It might just mean there was a Trial for Earth ala Tukayyid.  It might also mean that as of the moment of that Trial, the forces of the Empire and Republic have already merged and Devlin and Stone are settling who'll lead the new entity (presumably, the ilClan).

Ah, You are right, that is a malice. For some reason I'd been remembering that as bulkier. For a hundred tonner it doesnt look much bigger than that black knight.

If the context of the gencon battle is worth anything (and I suspect it is) this fight is concurrent with the rest of the battle for unity city at the climax of terra's conquest. My guess as to why they have formed a CoE is that the republic is pushed into a corner, and stone knows the clan mind. Must figure his best chance for the republic's survival is to try for a one on one.

And I am pretty sure it is actually the Savage Wolf Alpha config that is being used there, since there are no rear-facing missile ports that I can see, and there's a trio of beams extending to the Atlas II. Best match is the A. Had been going off the established fact that Alaric tended to use the prime configuration. Could be the Charlie, but I would expect larger missile racks on that.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Easy on 03 June 2017, 12:55:29
I am pretty sure the stone-is-arthur thing has been discussed to death elsewhere, and it was my impression that the  word was that no, he is not.
<snip>
I think the idea is more "two heads of state battling at the climax" than "this is a fair fight"

Yeh. Discussed to death is not the same as resolved. Ok, alot of players don't really care, but fictional characters do, and it would be a good thing, I think, if the truth was revealed.

I think it matters, but there are two questions, related to Aleric and Devlin that want a definitive answer, to wit the Lyran Succession, and Aleric's claim on the Archonship.

Devlin (actually Arthur?) defeating Aleric could mean more than just Terra, but also Tharkad.

This is why I'm claiming that there is a sign of a mysterious canon source out there guiding this that we, in the general public, might not be aware of, that doesnt have retroactive consequences on the timeline, /per se/, but might be significant to plotting storylines that don't create Alternate Universes any more than strictly necessary.

Does this make sense? It motivates my question, because the characters care.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2017, 13:02:23
Yeh. Discussed to death is not the same as resolved. Ok, alot of players don't really care, but fictional characters do, and it would be a good thing, I think, if the truth was revealed.

my thought was more "a wolf chatterweb thread is probably not the place where it'll be definitively settled.
I would very much like for TPTB to definitively reveal in a sourcebook whether or not he was arthur and put the matter to bed, but Hard Facts and putting this sort of speculation to bed is not modern battletech's tendency.

Way too much work to find it, but I have memories of Herb outright saying that Arthur was not Stone, and that stone was just some new guy, no particular importance to his life before being Stone.

I think it matters, but there are two questions, related to Aleric and Devlin that want a definitive answer, to wit the Lyran Succession, and Aleric's claim on the Archonship.

Devlin (actually Arthur?) defeating Aleric could mean more than just Terra, but also Tharkad.

This is why I'm claiming that there is a sign of a mysterious canon source out there guiding this that we, in the general public, might not be aware of, that doesnt have retroactive consequences on the timeline, /per se/, but might be significant to plotting storylines that don't create Alternate Universes any more than strictly necessary.

Does this make sense? It motivates my question, because the characters care.

Wolves already won on Tharkad, and cared so little about it, that they only did so to tweak the falcons' collective beaks. They could have had that planet long before they have reached Terra.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 03 June 2017, 13:14:21
Wolves already won on Tharkad, and cared so little about it, that they only did so to tweak the falcons' collective beaks. They could have had that planet long before they have reached Terra.

I believe what Easy was getting at is Alaric's publicly outing himself as a Steiner and therefore implicitly placing a claim on legitimacy to the throne of the Commonwealth.  Even if calling himself "Archon" started off as purely a Sheeple Management Tactic to maintain control over the Empire, it could feasibly expand into designs on the entire Commonweath (real or imagined).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Easy on 03 June 2017, 13:24:46
I believe what Easy was getting at is Alaric's publicly outing himself as a Steiner and therefore implicitly placing a claim on legitimacy to the throne of the Commonwealth.  Even if calling himself "Archon" started off as purely a Sheeple Management Tactic to maintain control over the Empire, it could feasibly expand into designs on the entire Commonweath (real or imagined).


Yes, with the proviso that Aleric's mother, Katherine, was a Steiner-Davion, like Arthur, not Steiners like Peter and Adam. In other words, Devlin would be Aleric's uncle, but both would be Steiner-Davions and not Steiners like the /actual/ line of legitimate Archons Andrew, Melissa and Trillian.


The gut-shot to Aleric, in this matchup, is that Devlin (if Arthur) could, if the Secret Identities are exposed, <insert anxious dodge here>, Devlin can drive a stake in the heart of Aleric's bloodline claims on the LC, and, really, Clan Wolf, because his rivals would, undoubtedly, use that against him.


OR, Arthur really did die already, or something else happened.


Piqued my interest.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2017, 17:04:12
Who cares about Tharkad though? Terra is far more important to the culture of the clans than some successor state capital.

If Alaric can secure Terra for Clan Wolf, hell, if he can just open the door to it, it wouldn't matter if he was three monkeys in a trenchcoat, he'd still have made them (or opened the door to becoming) the ilClan and any other factors would pale against that.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Easy on 03 June 2017, 17:36:58
Who cares about Tharkad though? Terra is far more important to the culture of the clans than some successor state capital.

Sigh. No, j/k. I'm not sure this is something all the Khans would agree with as a general policy of them all. I think there is a significant number of Clans who do not look at the legacy of the Terran Hegemony as something to recreate. After the Jihad, many Clans contributed to the Republic, so, maybe the Hegemony had the last laugh in a way. The Republic seems to treat the Clans pretty instrumentally, though. Does Devlin Stone recognize some kind of natural right to Terra, the way a Khan might? That might matter to an envious Khan.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 June 2017, 21:30:09
Actually, Trillian IS a Steiner-Davion.  Its why she was sent to the FedSuns as an ambassador.

With that aside, I do not expect to see Trillian handing over the throne to Alaric just because of his claim.  It IS interesting b/c it puts the Clans involved in a potential dynastic squabble.

I thought Devlin had a Atlas III?  Looked up, nope its a II.  I am not sure his version really has all that much more firepower than Alaric's Savage Wolf, all the Clan component versions and armored equipment kind of balances with the Wolf's Ferro-Lam armor.  I thought he used a ATM version rather than the Prime, which would encourage them to close since he would actually outdamage the Atlas II with HE rounds.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 05 June 2017, 01:05:03
I believe what Easy was getting at is Alaric's publicly outing himself as a Steiner and therefore implicitly placing a claim on legitimacy to the throne of the Commonwealth.  Even if calling himself "Archon" started off as purely a Sheeple Management Tactic to maintain control over the Empire, it could feasibly expand into designs on the entire Commonweath (real or imagined).

arKhan.

I will never not make this 'correction'.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Easy on 05 June 2017, 09:47:52
Actually, Trillian IS a Steiner-Davion.  It's why she was sent to the FedSuns as an ambassador.

With that aside, I do not expect to see Trillian handing over the throne to Alaric just because of his claim.  It IS interesting b/c it puts the Clans involved in a potential dynastic squabble.

Ok. Trillian is a Steiner-Davion, like Alaric, although I'll still suggest that most Lyrans consider Steiner-Davion the cadet branch, any more. Even still, Trillian's claim is legit, Alaric's is not, but does the Republic give less than two-tenths of a half of a crap about it? Magic 8-ball says no. Or Maybe. Or yes. Depends on how many times you ask, maybe.

About expecting the Lyran Succession to be settled by ANY Clan, one with the blood of a Steiner-Davion or not, especially KATHERINE, lol. I mean, I'm not here to pick a fight with Clan Wolf, if your getting that impression, but, Alaric-fans, how delusional do you have to be to even entertain the thought that any authority over any Lyran world can descend from Katherine.

Alaric can play the scourge, he may even take Terra and replace the RotS regime with one of his own.

He will never be Archon. General war would ensue, I tend to think, and would not end until he was dead and Clan Wolf had a new Khan with a mandate to keep his hands off of the LC.

This is all just idle speculation, though. We'll see what the new Line Devs will reveal.

I hope it happens before I'm over Steiner and on to something else, but, you know, don't give up the ship.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 June 2017, 19:24:16
Alaric's claim is just as good as Trillian's claim . . . its a matter of who controls the throne world and controls the most worlds.

You need to look at the period material more, if the Wolves wanted Tharkad they could have kept and if they wanted it now they could take it.  Trillian's LCAF is in bad shape and they do not have the kroner any longer to hire mercs.  She left one of her strongest allies to die off (supposedly) and endangered the biggest producer of war material her country has . . .

 . . . granted she has not had a lot of options with those choices, but its what she decided to do.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 05 June 2017, 19:54:57
There are interesting details in FM3145.

The Empire is (as of 3145) an artificial construct.  The Empire's touman has absorbed native sphereoids wholesale, and even then it's still woefully not enough to control all the worlds they already have, only the civilians' lack of offworld communication has prevented the Empire's forces from being bogged down by rebellions (pg 152).  That could certainly mean that should Alaric want Tharkad, he's not in a position right now to take it and hold it.

However I think it's also clear that any designs on Tharkad would be for the immediate term moot.  He wants Terra first and foremost.  Now I find another quote from that same page in FM3145 to be a Chekov's Gun:

Quote from: FM3145 pg 152
While [abandoning their lower castes in favor of enlisting sphereoids into the Clan] will certainly have repercussions in the long term, it has, like many of the Wolves’ recent actions, kept them fighting and winning—and, perhaps, if they keep winning, the long term might well take care of itself.

The Wolf Clan is, imo, soon to be a relic of the timeline's past and that quote is the tipoff.  It's undergoing a transformation... and it looks to me like the writers are teasing the fans with what they're going to become.  Probably the ilClan, perhaps in concert with or by merging with other faction(s).  Or maybe they're about to merge with the Inner Sphere and quit being distinctly "Clan", as the Bears have already done and the Ravens are in the process of doing.  Quite possibly: both.  Then again, maybe that ominous sounding line isn't about to "go off" in the ilClan storyline and it isn't really a Chekov's Gun.  I can't say; but I think it is.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Easy on 05 June 2017, 20:22:31
Alaric's claim is just as good as Trillian's claim . . . its a matter of who controls the throne world and controls the most worlds.

You need to look at the period material more, if the Wolves wanted Tharkad they could have kept and if they wanted it now they could take it.  Trillian's LCAF is in bad shape and they do not have the kroner any longer to hire mercs.  She left one of her strongest allies to die off (supposedly) and endangered the biggest producer of war material her country has . . .

 . . . granted she has not had a lot of options with those choices, but its what she decided to do.


A very strong argument to make to a Khan. Unfortunately for Alaric, it's not the Khans he must convince, but the Estates General. If the Estates General would pull the rug out from under Archon Melissa, because they did not feel she was good enough to deal with the existential threat to the Commonwealth, how much less would they support the bastard son of Katherine Steiner-Davion, who was responsible for what many sources call the bloodiest war the LC and FS ever fought? This is the argument you make to everyone BUT the Khans.


But I understand some of the support for that point of view. The perpetual Occupation Zones of the Wolves and the Falcons engenders a sense that any world will simply lie down. Some would, but not as many as the map of the Inner Sphere would suggest.


You can question the views of human nature that these politics represent and second guess the intentions of the Line Devs, we all do. It's normal, but what you might really want is possession of the objective facts.


Committing to those objective facts can be hard and can produce anxiety. However, I think it's worth it.


Some disagree.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 June 2017, 22:28:01
The Estates General is a sop, Peter was made Archon after taking Tharkad and the power was transferred from Alessandro to the real Katrina through politics.  He takes enough members, or any still on planet if he captured it again, and Alaric is declared Archon- who holds the capital, the building the Estates General meet in and a number of members.

Its the same sort of argument about why Katherine could not be First Prince- yet she held New Avalon and the throne, fait accompli.  No matter that she did not meet the strict requirements of FedSuns law, she was First Princess for a time.

TDC, they brought a number of their civilians with them though no all.  Its also not a matter of communication, Alaric's swift and harsh response to any rebellion will settle any attempts before they flare up.  You can easily see that in the view of the youngest Halas-Marik, who flat out stated it was pointless trying to foster any rebellions on former League worlds because they were brutally crushed.  It was better to target Lyran occupied worlds.

As for the Empire Touman and their positioning, they are a military encamped for movement.  Alaric is trying units against the Remnant and Galatean League, with the bulk & best poised to charge for Terra when the Fortress is breached.  They clearly state in FM3145 that its the chief strategic calculus in their deployments.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 06 June 2017, 00:08:02
There are interesting details in FM3145.

The Empire is (as of 3145) an artificial construct.  The Empire's touman has absorbed native sphereoids wholesale, and even then it's still woefully not enough to control all the worlds they already have,
When I read FM 3145 I got the impression that the Lyrans, Suns, former & reformed FWL, Republic, and others were in a similar situation.

That could certainly mean that should Alaric want Tharkad, he's not in a position right now to take it and hold it.

However I think it's also clear that any designs on Tharkad would be for the immediate term moot.  He wants Terra first and foremost. 
I agree Terra is his likely primary goal, but the big thing stopping him from taking Tharkad is the Falcons and Malvina. The Falcons, and especially Malvina seem to believe the Lyrans are their private hunting grounds and would go berzerk if the Wolves took Tharkad. Alaric probably sees it as a waste of resources to capture and then defend from the Falcons.



A very strong argument to make to a Khan. Unfortunately for Alaric, it's not the Khans he must convince, but the Estates General. If the Estates General would pull the rug out from under Archon Melissa, because they did not feel she was good enough to deal with the existential threat to the Commonwealth, how much less would they support the bastard son of Katherine Steiner-Davion, who was responsible for what many sources call the bloodiest war the LC and FS ever fought? This is the argument you make to everyone BUT the Khans.


But I understand some of the support for that point of view. The perpetual Occupation Zones of the Wolves and the Falcons engenders a sense that any world will simply lie down. Some would, but not as many as the map of the Inner Sphere would suggest.


You can question the views of human nature that these politics represent and second guess the intentions of the Line Devs, we all do. It's normal, but what you might really want is possession of the objective facts.


Committing to those objective facts can be hard and can produce anxiety. However, I think it's worth it.


Some disagree.
I think that argument can be made if Trillian or Roderick is still around. Otherwise I think Alaric has as strong a claim as any with the Estates General. In fact, unless something drastically changes, I think all he has to do is beat down the LCAF some and demand his title of Archon. If not, the understrength forces will be left without an Archon to face down the Falcons and Leaguers. At that point, I think the Estates General would welcome the Wolves with open arms and the Alaric as Archon. Better to have a loose tie to their past than have one or both of their enemies tear them apart.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sharpnel on 06 June 2017, 01:08:28
Alaric's claim is just as good as Trillian's claim . . . its a matter of who controls the throne world and controls the most worlds.

You need to look at the period material more, if the Wolves wanted Tharkad they could have kept and if they wanted it now they could take it.  Trillian's LCAF is in bad shape and they do not have the kroner any longer to hire mercs.  She left one of her strongest allies to die off (supposedly) and endangered the biggest producer of war material her country has . . .

 . . . granted she has not had a lot of options with those choices, but its what she decided to do.
Trillian did not desert her allies nor anger Vedet Brewster, that was Melissa's. Trillian is left picking up the mess that her cousin(?) created.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 06 June 2017, 03:16:49
He's talking about the Tamar Trap Trillian made of Hesperus II. The one where Trillian's forces just gave the Eridani Light Horse a big middle finger. I wonder what the ELH did to Trillian to merit such treatment from her. I guess Trillian is another psycho Steiner. *shrugs*
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 June 2017, 06:03:25
He's talking about the Tamar Trap Trillian made of Hesperus II. The one where Trillian's forces just gave the Eridani Light Horse a big middle finger. I wonder what the ELH did to Trillian to merit such treatment from her. I guess Trillian is another psycho Steiner. *shrugs*

Her trap needed bait. She sacrificed mercs rather than Lyran citizens. Cold? Yes. Practical? Also yes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sharpnel on 06 June 2017, 07:36:20
Her trap needed bait. She sacrificed mercs rather than Lyran citizens. Cold? Yes. Practical? Also yes.
Plus it was a good way for TPTB to remove ELH from the universe.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2017, 13:18:18
Trillian seems pretty nice honestly. There are books where you can read her thoughts. Roderick and Trillian seem like good guys.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 June 2017, 21:05:26
Plus it was a good way for TPTB to remove ELH from the universe.

Which was the whole point along with breaking the Falcon-Horse alliance.  But I was also referencing leaving the Warden Wolves out in the cold.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 06 June 2017, 21:43:32
On the Wolves leaving behind their lower castes:

Quote from: FM 3145 pg 152
Furthermore, while they took their best and
brightest scientists, technicians and merchants, the vast majority
of the labor castes—the people who actually ran things—were
abandoned as well.

The "vast majority" of the Clan's pool of support personnel were abandoned.  It's a black and white fact, barring whatever unreliable authorship factor one wants to ascribe onto the quote.  Yes the Wolves kept hold of their "best and brightest" of the lower castes, but what percentage can that possibly be?  Objectively: the inverse of a "vast majority".  The Wolf Empire probably retained enough lowercastemen to serve as a leadership cadre, but that leadership cadre is overseeing a sphereoid body of support personnel.  And that's even before looking at how many sphereoid militiamen are rebranded as full-fledged Warriors (second line, but still Warriors) in the Wolf Touman.

The same "Wolf Empire" sub-chapter goes on to mention how the Empire has about as much infrastructure that can build Clan-spec as they did in 3050 when they overran the FRR: none.  They can use captured academies to train/mint more sphereoid warriors.  By implication, their trueborn birthing program is either on hold or restricted to their remaining WarShips.  (although they surely have at least some sibko cadets mature enough for being put into the field, and the "best and brightest" of the scientist caste surely are caretaking a temporarily mothballed creche program)

On the Empire only holding on to the territory it has thanks to the chaos of the Dark Age:

Quote
With their military forces focused on external
conflicts, the Wolves will lack the numbers to enforce their
authority over the local populations, and they know it. If it wasn’t
for the Blackout creating an atmosphere of uncertainty, there would
probably already be rebellions in the streets.

So anyway what I've been saying over the last page or so is that the Wolf Empire is well on its way to being drowned in "sphereoidness".  They don't have the infrastructure to maintain let alone expand their Touman (same page quotes the Wolf Empire as being dependent on the Sea Foxes to acquire any Clan-spec materiel) and they don't have the numbers, even with absorbing sphereoids wholesale, to maintain the reins of empire as only the chaos of the Dark Age (namely, the dire straits of their neighbors) is allowing their conquests to hold steady.

I envision that the Wolves don't have any intention of holding on to their "Empire" and are simply using the worlds as a staging point to leap at Terra.  They'll either succeed in their "leap of faith" and become ilClan, or they won't.  Someone's gonna be ilClan, so they're a better bet than most to become it.  But if they do fail, having burned all their bridges to get to where they can make their leap of faith will at the very least strip them of their "Clan-ness" and best case scenario, become just another Inner Sphere rump state between the FWL and LC.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 07 June 2017, 09:42:02
Someone's gonna be ilClan,

Not necessarily....
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 June 2017, 09:49:03
Not necessarily....

Touche. I too have occasionally argued (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56971.msg1310176#msg1310176) that "ilClan" doesn't have to mean there will be an ilClan.  But let's be real: it really looks like if one were to bet, the smart money would be on the ilClan storyline featuring someone becoming ilClan rather than the name for the age being an ironic dysphemism for an age of conflict that have their roots in someone's failed attempt to become ilClan.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 07 June 2017, 11:02:20
 :-X
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Gaiiten on 07 June 2017, 11:23:26
"Terra awaits us" ...

IMHO this will be the core of get the status of the ilClan. Who of the Clans owns Terra, will be ilClan.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 08 June 2017, 13:20:01
Whoever can fight off enough Trials Of Calling Bull **** will actually be the ilClan.  If the Falcons decide they're the one true remaining legacy of the Clans, the only true Clan left, and all the others are to be Annihilated, well...all hail the Green Turkey.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Cryhavok101 on 08 June 2017, 13:28:05
5th Succession War will just be the clans fighting endless trials of refusal as they all try to land on terra. It will last 50 years.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 09 June 2017, 18:58:44
I just love the way the gathering place for fans of clan wolf always seems to be full of its detractors. If anybody knows where I can find where the people who actually LIKE Clan Wolf and want to talk about something other than how they'll never win terra, and taking terra doesn't mean anything anymore, and the ilclan was always a myth of your fevered imagination, Please, PM me so I can join up.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 09 June 2017, 19:24:14
Well, I like Clan Wolf.  I even think they can take Terra. I just worry about them being able to HOLD it. Because if the Wolves take Terra, the Jade Falcons will lose their **** and thus Refusal War 2.0. Depending on how badly they're hurt by that, a spheroid power will look to take advantage of the Wolves.

Given the weakened state of the Council of Six (let's be honest, thanks largely to the Wolves themselves), the Clan of Kerensky will have to work extraordinarily hard to promote Clan unity, which will be their best chance of curbing aggression by the Great Houses.

My two cents at least.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: jklantern on 09 June 2017, 19:49:28
Not necessarily....

Someone's gonna be THE ILLEST CLAN!  WITH SICK MOVES YO!

...okay, I'll stop.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Cryhavok101 on 09 June 2017, 21:04:16
Out of all the clanners, the wolves have the best chance of being accepted as some kind of leader if they do take Terra, since they have a leader who seems to be able to make a claim for one of the succession house thrones. He could theoretically claim to be the successor lord to claim the title of First Lord. If he can convince everyone he has a legitimate claim to both inner sphere and clan power, he could, potentially, go very far with it.

That wouldn't be nearly as funny as the clans being locking into decades of trials of refusal as none of them are willing to accept the results though.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 10 June 2017, 18:59:50
Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.

Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.

Have fun guys
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 10 June 2017, 19:07:16
Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.

Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.

Have fun guys

If the POV presented in Bonfire of Worlds is accurate.. he didn't "let his predecessor die"... he flat out murdered him and blamed it on "Loki agents that were totally lurking in the area".
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 10 June 2017, 19:56:55
If the POV presented in Bonfire of Worlds is accurate.. he didn't "let his predecessor die"... he flat out murdered him and blamed it on "Loki agents that were totally lurking in the area".

Totally forgot that, yeah. It's been a while since I read Bonfire
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Maelwys on 10 June 2017, 20:45:36
Of course, no one really knows that...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 June 2017, 21:09:52
Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.

Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.

Have fun guys

Killing Katherine is self-defense as he told her while she died.  Katherine killed her mother, tried to kill Victor several times and as Alaric may know of the rumors about Authur that could be factored in.  Its not a stretch that she would kill her offspring if they got in the way of her access to power.  Even if she had not tried to kill him to 'rule in his name' she would have been constantly interfering to do what she though best which never works in any society but would be worse among the Clans.

Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 June 2017, 00:43:40
Killing Katherine is self-defense as he told her while she died.  Katherine killed her mother, tried to kill Victor several times and as Alaric may know of the rumors about Authur that could be factored in.  Its not a stretch that she would kill her offspring if they got in the way of her access to power.  Even if she had not tried to kill him to 'rule in his name' she would have been constantly interfering to do what she though best which never works in any society but would be worse among the Clans.

Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.

Even then, Alaric was killing a hundred year-plus old woman obsintently in self-defence, even when he had repeatedly demonstrated that he was storng enough on his own to overome her influence. To me it came off more as some insane 'fulfil my own destiny, compelte the circle' thing of parent killing with his own attempts at self-justification after the fact.

Besides, there's still the whole "Kill the Khan to become the Khan" thing going on. What Alaric did was a massive violation of clan law.

And regardless of how you feel about the Proving Grounds novels, they are still canon, and the events in them still happened and have been referenced mutliple times since. You can't just say 'doesn't count'. And even then, Anastasia has demonstrated that whoever she's leading, they are secondary to her own needs and goals.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 11 June 2017, 00:48:47
Of course, no one really knows that...

Whether or not anyone else in-universe knows may yet be a surprise to be revealed.

But even if someone doesn't bring that deed against him, the point stands that the Wolves' Khan is exactly the sort to expend anything or anyone to get what he wants.  That could bode poorly for the Clan's long term prospects if he's put in a tough spot.  It doesn't necessarily mean it WILL portend ill for the Wolves... just saying it could: as I pointed out FM3145 seems to portray the Wolves as walking a tightrope between disaster and greatness.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Øystein on 11 June 2017, 03:46:39
This is Clan Wolf we are talking about - they are pragmatists.

A Clan that ignored one of their leaders shooting an unarmed prisoner in the face and drawing a circle around him calling it a "circle of equals". (Phelan Ward's coldblooded murder of Conal Ward).
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Gaiiten on 11 June 2017, 12:24:15
Did you not know?
"Primary objective: Shooting, secondary objective (if ever): draw the circle"

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Cryhavok101 on 11 June 2017, 13:31:26
Besides, clan rules only really apply if someone who didn't lose objects to their lack.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 June 2017, 17:01:39
Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.

Not gonna lie, seeing her someday die, is a strong factor in why I want the plot to move forward again. I think Devlin Stone is the only character I'm looking forward to seeing dead more than her. Malvina in third place. I would be a happy man if any two of those three fell at Alaric's hand.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 June 2017, 19:16:51
Funnily enough, I'm the opposite. I'd love to see Alaric dead by the hand of Anastasia, Malvina or Devlin.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 June 2017, 19:52:30
I was under the impression you were far more of a falcon fan. I'm not exactly surprised that you want to see a degenerate lunatic, a falcon or a spheroid kill the wolf khan.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 June 2017, 19:59:25
I'm just as much a Republic fan as I am a Falcon one. And I also legitimately really do like Anastasia Kerensky.

But I would like to see Devlin Stone, Malvina Hazen or Anastasia Kerensy kill a matricidal sociopathic manipulator who murdered and lied his way to the Khanship.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sharpnel on 11 June 2017, 20:28:30
Since Malvina's possible death is mentioned, the only probable killer I would like to see doing it is Cynthy.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 June 2017, 22:01:13
Anastasia only comes off with lunacy in those three books, which is why I said everyone since has tried to salvage the character from the mustache-twirls.  I feel like later books, where she leads the Wolf Hunters and in Bonfire the character returns to what was presented in her first appearance.  Deadborder, I never said they would disappear- they are canon as stated, but IMO did a disservice to all characters presented since Tara Campbell was also poorly portrayed.  I liked the character Tassa Kay was initially as I felt it was a good balance of fiat & realism.

Alaric's killing of Seth is IMO the ultimate expression of 'might makes right' as he was able to do as he pleased and successfully springboard off of it.  Just like Malvina can be interpreted as the eventual evolutionary path of the Crusader mentality, Alaric is the definition of might for the time period.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 12 June 2017, 22:15:18
Bonfire of Worlds is my favorite book.

Malvina is enough crazy for the galaxy. They don't really need Anastasia to be a psychopath.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 24 June 2017, 15:26:59
as for the earlier discussion about stone's identity, an unrelated search for files turned up this screenshot I knew i took:
Devlin Stone is nobody special (http://restless.mechadynamics.net/11_30_2013.png)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Øystein on 24 June 2017, 18:21:51
as for the earlier discussion about stone's identity, an unrelated search for files turned up this screenshot I knew i took:
Devlin Stone is nobody special (http://restless.mechadynamics.net/11_30_2013.png)

TPTB has said this dozens of time, but people seem to think they have been lying :P
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 24 June 2017, 21:17:45
TPTB has said this dozens of time, but people seem to think they have been lying :P

*tinfoil hat* It's a CONSPIRACY I tells ya! *tinfoil hat*
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 24 June 2017, 21:38:21
TPTB has said this dozens of time, but people seem to think they have been lying :P

I'd argue that it's because having to rely on forum posts for the revelation is perhaps the least efficient way of doing so. It would be far better known if we had a published source making it clear.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 26 June 2017, 09:17:43
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 July 2017, 20:13:38
Question for something I'm working on. What would you consider to be the weakest of the Wolf Empire Galaxies? Not just in terms of raw numbers, but also equipment, troops, morale and so on.

Two suggest themselves to me. The first is Kappa; while it's an 'old' Wolf galaxy, it's mostly green troops and vehicles, and has spent much of the last few decades as the Bears punching bag. On the other hand, Mu is a new galaxy. It has mech,  albeit salvaged ones, but is one gigantic mess of morale and loyalty issues
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 12 July 2017, 20:16:45
I'd say Mu. Because it creates a lot of character and story interest. Also, you get to argue over whether to pronounce it 'moo' or 'mew'.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 12 July 2017, 20:33:06
I'd say Mu. Because it creates a lot of character and story interest. Also, you get to argue over whether to pronounce it 'moo' or 'mew'.

There is that.

I just wish it had a colour scheme. Based on the unflattering name of is Keshik cluster, I assume that it's some sort of Sandy yellow, but who knows?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 12 July 2017, 20:40:54
Gotta be Mu, surely? FM: 3145 pretty much describes them as a failure. I'd: this is the worse case scenario when you recruit from among Freebirths
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: truetanker on 12 July 2017, 23:11:47
I'd: this is the worse case scenario when you recruit from among Freebirths

And then you'd wonder why Star Commander Booger won his trial!
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C0H1UIhpoHA/maxresdefault.jpg)

TT
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 13 January 2018, 17:42:46
Arise, thread!  Seriously, Wolves, step up your gme. ;D

I'm building a Wolf Cluster for a project.  This won't ever all hit the field at the same time, so the most of any given thing I'm going to need is however much will typically see the field in a Trinary or so sized game.  Things can be rearranged before game time, so I won't need to have a 'representative' number of something like Timber Wolves, just one or two.  What I'm interested in some commentary on is: what's missing?  What kind of gaps in traditional Wolf tactics or strategy is this unable to fulfill?  The lineup so far:

Omnis:
Tomahawk II
Executioner
Gargoyle
Savage Coyote
Warwolf (x2)
Timber Wolf (x2)
Summoner
Linebacker
Wulfen

Non-Omnis:
Marauder IIC
Orion IIC
Warhammer IIC
Rifleman IIC
Highlander IIC
Jaguar (x2)

Vehicles:
Carnivore (x4)
Mars (x2)
Ares (x2)
Asshur (x2)
Odin (x2)
Svantovit (x2)
Eldingar (x2)

Infantry (five points each):
Clan Medium
Corona
Warg
Gnome
Salamander

Aerospace:
Sabutai (x2)
Visigoth (x6)
Turk (x6)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Precentor Scorpio on 13 January 2018, 19:59:15
For the 3050 time frame I would recommend the Ice Ferret and Dire Wolf.

If you can justify fighting the Smoke Jaguars probably a Stormcrow.  But an Ebon Jaguar would be great.

is the 6th Wolf Guards formally SJ 6th Jaguar Dragoons?  So one or two Smoke Jaguar mechs might make sense.  If you really want a Turkina, Black Lanner, or Night Gyr you can use the same justification.   6th Dragoons as the Smoke Jaguars and Jade Falcons did exchange mech designs.  Finally, maybe a Shadow Cat.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 13 January 2018, 20:29:39
Ah, I should mention, this Cluster is for 3145+.  That's the intended "Use by" date, though dropping a few of the more recent toys should get a decent 3050 force too.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 January 2018, 22:07:38
I see the specialists . . . but where is the regular Elementals?  And since I see secondline gear . . . GDL Surats?

For mechs . . . missing some Coyote cast-offs besides the SC, what about the Savage Wolf?, Ice Ferret, Phantom (too big a fan of the H),

Secondlines . . . Night Wolf, Mad Cat Mk II, Sun Cobra, Tundra Wolf, Blood Reaper, maybe the odd Ghost Bear or JF unit like Arcas or Thunderbolt C, and something to represent the Orion C or whatever?  Might also think about the cream of LC & FWL as Hammerfall etc salvage.

Armor . . . Morrigu of all stripes, Zoyras are great for AA & ECM, Demo C, Kelswas, maybe some Gurtis as salvage, Schilds?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 13 January 2018, 22:11:12
I should further clarify: Everything I add to this unit has to have a mini.  I've got roughly a truckload of Elementals and honestly forgot to put a Star's worth on the list.

Ice Ferret and Phantom are good calls, I'll see about getting a couple.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 January 2018, 22:36:12
Well . . .

Blood Reaper & Tundra Wolf have minis- heard mixed reviews on the missile bay hatches but that is preference I think.  Think the Night Wolf does, lots of MC Mk II variants out there though to be honest I really like the E.  I think the Sun Cobra & TBolt C are out.

For armor, that is where it gets stickier . . . never liked the art on the Zoyra and so I always think of it looking like a Scorpion.  I do not think the Schild has been done yet, but its a turret on a block so stand in should be easy if you wanted.  Morrigu, Kelswa and Gurti are all out I think with the first two being widespread in the IS.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 14 January 2018, 00:23:15

Adder and/or Pouncer.  They may be slow for their weight (or light for their speed), but they are classic, old-school force-fillers for Clan Wolf.

Black Wolf and Aesir are the new Wolf BA and tank, respectively.  But I assume there is no mini for either, yet,  or they'd already be listed.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 14 January 2018, 17:13:48
well, in the 3145 timeframe, no one is fielding the requisite number of omnimechs to properly field elementals that way. I don't know if the R10 has a mini, but I really like it for APC duties. Being that it's an omnivehicle you can carry a battle armor squad AND one can ride on the hull.

Optional whether you'd want any, but I don't see the Naga listed in the force at all. Artillery IS though, one of those places where I like vehicles better. Twice as many tubes, fewer worries about honor, easy to bid away for a proper fight.

Non-Omni-Wise, the faces I'm not seeing during Roll Call are Tundra Wolf, Blood Reaper Lobo and Sun Cobra. Locust IIc is also something that'd fit, but I always feel weird using them for some reason. If you want other battlemech options, an Imp C could fit in there. Omni-wise I like running the Phantom with the Wulfen, but the production window on them was regrettably small so I don't think anyone would fault their absence. Ice Ferret and Mist Lynx are possible buddies too, though I gotta imagine the Mist Lynx numbers are dwindled by 3145, with nearly a hundred years of no jaguars to bully for them.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 14 January 2018, 17:39:16
The R10 sadly does not have a mini, or I'd have a lance of them in every single factions scheme I play.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 14 January 2018, 17:51:44
I'll put in a good word for the Sun Cobra 2, in particular. The original's a bit of a dud, but the sequel is a savage little light cavalry 'Mech, lean and efficient. It's one of the Wolves' most underrated units, IMO.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 14 January 2018, 17:58:15
I'll put in a good word for the Sun Cobra 2, in particular. The original's a bit of a dud, but the sequel is a savage little light cavalry 'Mech, lean and efficient. It's one of the Wolves' most underrated units, IMO.

The Wolves don't actually get the Sun Cobra 2; it's available to the RAF, FedSuns and Sea Foxes, but not them. IIRC, the Wolves sold the Foxes the original dud design and the Foxes made it a jillion times better.

With that being said, I agree that it's a fantastic design. I can't reccomend it enough.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 14 January 2018, 18:12:46
Exact, strict adherence to the MUL isn't necessary.  My Republic Hastati unit has an Eyrie and Gyrfalcon counted among its members.  If one could reasonably be present through salvage then it can get the nod here.  I'd personally stay away from things that have been out of production for 50+ years and aren't on the Wolf MUL list, but most other things I can handle.

I should also mention that this will be primarily (if not exclusively) for Alpha Strike game usage.  If that changes some suggestions for inclusion, I won't be surprised.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 14 January 2018, 18:55:21
I'll put in a good word for the Sun Cobra 2, in particular. The original's a bit of a dud, but the sequel is a savage little light cavalry 'Mech, lean and efficient. It's one of the Wolves' most underrated units, IMO.

That's trial of grievance material right there. a 3/4 Sun Cobra (Standard) is one of the best 2kbv death machines I've fielded. I wouldn't want to wage a guerilla war with it, but it's absolutely a solid medium.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 January 2018, 20:47:30
One thing that I wish we saw more of was the Clan Omnis getting SuperChargers.  This is partly b/c the Wolves were always fluffed as being a 'cavalry' style force and 3145 fluff carried that forward with the frontline clusters that got Lyran isorla being mocked as 'too slow' at 4/6.

Imagine a 3145 Trinary Supernova Rogue-

Wulfens, Ice Ferrets and Phantoms with Hellions, Grendels, Shadow Cats and Vipers to a lesser extent all moving BA to a critical location while a non-Omni star is filled out with Locust IICs, Solitaires, Pack Hunters & fast IS isorla.  Such a fast supernova could easily disorder any IS force it's parent cluster would end up facing.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: truetanker on 14 January 2018, 21:28:39
* Shakes head *

No artillery at all... tsk tsk.

I personally would assign at least a MAXIMUM of 12 arty PER Cluster! With another Star PER Galaxy.

Meaning either a Naga, Bowman, pair of Huey, pairs of  Demo A4, ex-SLDF : Ballista, Chaparral, Marksman C, Long Tom, Padilla, Thor C, SM2 and Pollux. Also includes possible use of Vali and Thumper TAV-1.

TT
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 15 January 2018, 05:24:32
I find that between it's slow speed, thin armour and being a "shoot me" magnet with two Gauss Rifles and a TC, the Sun Cobra (Standard) dies pretty fast in a battle. It's also got a shortage of crits to pad with.

On the other hand, it's not like it's going to overheat any time soon...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 January 2018, 11:38:37
What is sort of funny is they did not like the Glass Spider so they made the Glass Spider 2 . . . then during/after the Jihad made the Sun Cobra, which is a smaller & less armored Glass Spider.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 15 January 2018, 14:07:27
Exact, strict adherence to the MUL isn't necessary.  My Republic Hastati unit has an Eyrie and Gyrfalcon counted among its members.  If one could reasonably be present through salvage then it can get the nod here.  I'd personally stay away from things that have been out of production for 50+ years and aren't on the Wolf MUL list, but most other things I can handle.

I should also mention that this will be primarily (if not exclusively) for Alpha Strike game usage.  If that changes some suggestions for inclusion, I won't be surprised.

Even more so if it's a Sea Fox product. The only thing they don't sell is a specific version of the Mad Cat Mk II and the Tiburon.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 February 2018, 08:28:57
Last night the Wolves ran down a Kurita force . . .

The set up was for a escalation tournament to test things- build a 5k force, add another 5k and eventually another 5k.  Grand total is 15k eventually, scoring is still being worked out but bonus for killing a commander (undisclosed before game, gives init bonus) and it will have other things like attack/defend HQ.  Pilot skills to be included in the BV and units had to be faction specific for the MUL at the Jihad.

Warden Wolf 1st 5K-  5063
Nova Cat C     3/5
Phantom H     3/5
Roc 3            4
Roc 3            4
Roc 3            4
Roc 3            4
Satyr 3         4

2nd 5K-  makes it 10006
Morrigu (Laser)  4/6
Heimdall A         4/6
Hellion E            3/5

Started off spread along my edge with the pair of tanks in the center set to drive up on a Level 1 hill with some light woods, to the right was the Nova Cat and the 4 Roc 3s.  On the left, set to flank down the side through woods and avoid the road & hills were the Phantom H, Hellion E and Satyr 3.  My opposition placed his Phoenix Hawk 7K supported by two Kanazuchi (Upgrade), his center was a Avatar Prime, Blackjack OC & Sunder OE with a Royal Stalker farther out than my line.  All the Drac pilots except the Blackjack (a 2) were 3 gunners and I am not sure of their piloting skill except it was not as helpful.

Turn 1 was a bit of position jockeying with the Avatar swinging out to help the PXH & BA hold the flank.  Every shot wiffed, even some decent numbers on the Morrigu's ERLL.

My point of armor continued on the hill to take firing positions in light woods though almost directly in front near the middle of the map was a L2 hill.  The Nova Cat also crested the hill in front of it which placed a patch of heavy woods between it and the Stalker but left fields of fire to the other Drac mechs open though it had some partial cover.  Having won initiative my speedsters waited while the Rocs fanned out as a screen in front of the armor and a single on running to the right to go outside the Stalker.  The single Satyr 3 ran up behind the Avatar Prime which advanced along my left edge but placed a row of heavy woods between it and the armor & Nova Cat.  The Drac Pixie ran to form a bit of a conga by putting its back to the edge and to the left of the Satyr 3 which had it facing the Avatar's back 2 hexes away.  My Hellion E ran through a gap in the woods to place itself between the Pixie and pair of Kanazuchi- I thought they were the regulars so I made sure to stay beyond 3 hexes.  My last move ran the Phantom H up directly behind his Avatar Prime but not facing it to enable it to keep running if it survived incoming fire and the PXH kick.  So this is turn 2 and its about to get brutal in the firing phase.

Three of the Roc 3s cannot fire, LOS blocked by being behind hills.  I open the ball with my Phantom H- I needed a 3 for the MPL and 6s for the SHL into the back.  MPL hit, and IIRC 5 of the SHL . . . opened up the back, got a engine hit after putting 2 SHL into the CTR.  Morrigu hit it with a ERLL or two, Heimdall missed on its ER ATMs against the Blackjack, I forget what the Nova Cat scored armor damage on (PXH?), Satyr 3 missed, and single Roc 3 missed.  The Hellion E connected with a AP Gauss and HML against the PXH but took a beating in return, losing a arm to the Sunder's Snubbie and Kanazuchi SPPC.  The PXH and Avatar both missed their PSRs which put them on the ground.  The Phantom did not try to kick the PXH, movement is its life after all but the Satyr did frenzy the fallen Avatar for a single (yay!) point of damage.

Lost initiative so time to move on, the Morrigu moved up on the hill for a better firing position while the Heimdall stayed in its light woods.  The Nova Cat moved to put the heavy woods on the L2 hill to its right, still blocking LOS from the Stalker.  Three of the Roc 3 moved into position in front of the Avatar which stood up and into the heavy woods.  The Satyr 3 moved out to be in short range of the Blackjack OC which had some off the hill to cross the dip the road had cut between hills and the last Roc 3 had gotten outside the Stalker on my right though it was using 2 hexes of light woods as blocker terrain.  The Phantom H ran up behind the Sunder OE and the Hellion E used MASC to run along the ridge above the road but behind the Blackjack to move 4 or so hexes from the Stalker for a +4.  The Phantom again opens the ball for my fire . . . MPL and all 6 SHL hit the Sunder in the back- 2 Smalls hit the pristine Sunder's head killing the pilot and mech.  Morrigu connects with 2 of the 3 ERLL against the Avatar and so does one of the Roc 3.  Nova Cat causes some armor damage to the Pixie which had stood up to run and the Hellion plinks a AP Gauss against the Stalker which can only connect with a few lasers.  Heimdall misses on ATMs & LBXs against the Stalker.  The Hellion takes more damage but nothing critical and is still zipping about, one of the Rocs takes a few nicks from the Kanazuchi pair.  Avatar falls again after missing a PSR.

Turn 4 . . . the Avatar gets up but runs back into the heavy woods to try to get some distance and cover from the Nova Cat & armor.  The Heimdall had cruised forward a to get the LBX into range of more mechs.  The Phantom reverses course to get behind the Avatar again after it killed the Sunder's pilot.  The Nova Cat is up in the heavy woods, still screened against the Stalker which is plodding forward.  My Hellion E had swooped down into the single heavy woods next to the road keeping it from the Blackjack which moved to shelter behind the L2 cliff.  The protos began swarming around the Stalker though two were out of position.  Once again, the Phantom opens the ball from behind the Avatar hoping to exploit that open CTR location.  Same easy rolls as all game- MPL hit and 4 of the 6 SHL.  No crits, armor damage all around with a single SHL hitting the Avatar's head.  The Morrigu connects once again with 2 ERLL . . . one of which hits the head, another dead Drac.  Its return fire scored the armor on the Morrigu but no crits.  The Heimdall finally scored with a single ATM rack & LB-10X hitting the Stalker for armor damage.  The Nova Cat put more pain on the Phoenix Hawk, scoring a single UAC/5 double tap along with a LPL and LB-5X full hit.  One of the LBX pellets hit the open SPPC arm and got the upper arm actuator.

It cascaded from there . . . my Hellion got tore up and for fun I tried a DFA against the hiding Blackjack- never would have if it was closer.  My Proto point stayed in the rear of the Stalker, ripping it brutally the next turn- some crits on the RT, one of which was LRM ammo.  More crits the on the CTR for gyro death even if the pilot did not KO.  Got 5 crits on 3 chances on the PXH's side torso- 4 JJ and a engine crit from the Nova Cat . . .

Game was called after the PXH was declared crippled, Blackjack had some armor damage and was on the ground and the smoking Stalker had just falled from its gyro being cut out.  My Hellion E was scrap after the foolish DFA attempt.  Nova Cat and Heimdall had not been touched, the Morrigu had less than 15 points of armor damage, most the Protos had not been touched and the Phantom had a side torso open with a single engine crit but was not 'crippled' though it would have been pulling back.

What is it like fighting a Wolf?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 22 February 2018, 16:44:59
The R10 sadly does not have a mini, or I'd have a lance of them in every single factions scheme I play.
But it does have a mini. It's just plastic and comes with a click base attached to it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Batman on 03 March 2018, 01:46:53
I'm Batman!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 March 2018, 04:31:43
Been awhile, but in-universe I am not sure much has changed since you ghosted.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Batman on 04 March 2018, 16:11:14
Ah, who cares about universe. I just love being among my Wolves!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 04 March 2018, 17:41:25
Flying Fox?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: RexCalices on 25 March 2018, 14:25:57
Hey Guys - I'm a little curious about Dark Age camo specs and wondering if anyone knows anything regarding this.

In FM 3145 Clan Wolf has a lot of new Galaxies that it raised after it burgeoned into an Empire - but I don't see any specs for these on Camospecs

http://camospecs.com/Faction/Details/47?p=1

I'm wondering now - what was the process for getting camo specs canonized? Has there been any attempt to do this to the new galaxies? Just curious how such things happen if they aren't in a book.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 25 March 2018, 18:00:11
It's possible that those new Galaxies don't have colours schemes at all, and just use the default Wolf Grey instead. Alternatively, since some of them inherited the names of defunct old Wolf Galaxies (eg Theta) they could have inherited the colour schemes as well.

Best way to go about it would be to ask Camospecs through their Facebook page. However, they do have a very large backlog of units still awaiting schemes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 May 2018, 10:19:18
ilClan is drawing closer (again) so we might finally get some resolution from that GenCon diorama a few years ago.

So Alaric is heading into the Republic with nearly everything he can muster.  You are a Galaxy Commander tasked with keeping the borders busy and thus the neighbors from knowing just how stripped the Empire is of forces  Alaric left you your Keshik (light frontline cluster), a frontline cluster, a secondline cluster, and two garrison clusters- one filled with former Leaguers and the other with Lyrans.  You have adequate transport to move each cluster and a bit of a surplus of assault & PWS dropships.  Needless to say you do not want to deploy the Lyran cluster on that front and ditto the League cluster.  Besides the neoLeague and Lyran rump you also have the Galatean crew, Republic Remnant, and some nasty Falcons on the borders while never knowing where Sea Foxes might show up (or did Alaric contract with them for shipping & support?).  Additionally, your supply support is going to be minimal since a lot of the supply chain is going to be bound to Alaric's offensive.

Where do you go on the offensive to skirmish along the borders.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 19 May 2018, 11:11:16
Technically, there's a cease fire in place along the FWL border, and they've seemed willing to hold it. The Desant seems a good place to start. Knock down the Falcons before they get ideas. The Republican Remnant Rump, if it still exists, is a big #2. They can cause much mischief behind the lines. The Lyrans have their own problems to deal with, but I wouldn't be adverse to snatching several worlds to bring them under the protection of the True Archon while Trillian falters. Galatean Defense League is probably last on my list.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 May 2018, 11:25:15
While the League in general had a truce in '45 we do not if it was holding in '50 but even with it both sides overlooked the Crusader Wolves engaging in Trials with the Clan Protectorate.  The truce with the League was in effect IMO b/c Jessica was afraid of the Wolves might landing on her in the early 40s.  With Regulus out of the picture and no longer able to stab her in the back . . . and the bulk of the Wolf touman elsewhere, it would be surprising if they did not get adventurous.  The only other avenue for the neoFWL is nibble at the periphery of the Lyrans or focus on Andurien . . . which means facing the CapCon & MoC.  Which would be more important- returning Andurien to the League or the captured MSC worlds?

Which is why I was asking what sort of plan folks might come up with to checkmate or bluff (more likely) the League into maintaining the truce.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 21 May 2018, 12:33:55
They are engaging in trials. Nothing more. That's what Clans do. Besides, the Free Worlds League has so much on it's plate that I think they're busy without adding another war onto it. They have the Anduriens, the Marians, and integrating the Regulans to worry about.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 July 2018, 15:16:32
Thinking about this for a 3130s Wolf secondline cluster, able to be Warden or Crusader . . .

Savage Wolf
Arctic Wolf 2
Timber Wolf
Stormcrow
Elemental (APG)

Supernova Assault
Alpha Nova
Timber Wolf E
Gargoyle C
Adder B
Mad Dog Mk IV C
Centurion Omni C
2 Elemental, 2 Rabid,

Bravo Star
Jade Hawk 03        5/8(10[12])5
Gyrfalcon              5/8(10)/6 or 7
Arcas
Scourge
Black Hawk 2

Charlie Star
Linebacker
Ghost 50
Uziel 2S
Argotera 1A
Centurion 9-D

Trinary Battle
Star
Hellstar
Cygnus
Thunderbolt IIC 2
Osprey 26
Eisenfaust 7X

Nova
Night Gyr
Hel
Sunder
Blackjack Omni
Templar III
Gnome, Rogue Bear

Warhammer IIC 4
Tundra Wolf
Verfolger
Ostwar 3M
Warhammer 9S

Trinary Rogue
Supernova Alpha
Black Lanner
Ice Ferret
Phantom
Wulfen
Corona, Black Wolf, Cuchulainn SupA, Gnome, Ogre

Bravo Star
Mongrel T2
Arctic Wolf
Pack Hunter 2
Legionnaire
Spirit

Charlie Star
Locust IIC 4
Incubus 1 or 4
Havoc P6
Jaguar

Supernova Phalanx
1st Nova
Heimdall, Schildkrote, Carnivores, Kelswa, Mars (ATM), Behemoth II, Marksmen 1A, Gurti?, Morrigu (Laser), Alacorn Mk VII, Hui?
heavy & assault BA to include IS suits like Ogres- tracked APCs?

2nd Nova
Epona, Hephastus, maybe a Zibler, SM1/1A & SM3 Tank Destroyers, Svantovit, Bellonas, other fast hovers
GDL Std (LRR), IS Std (LRR) x2, Rabid (BA CO), ?

3rd Star
BE701 Joust x4, Ares, Ares (Plasma), Enyo x2, Kinnol, Myrmidon x2?, Mantueffel?


Trinary Aerial
2 stars ASF
Gossamer VTOL
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 23 July 2018, 16:11:04
So, a Wolf in Exile cluster that contains Crusaders or a Wolf Empire cluster that has Wardens? ;)

More seriously, the traditional command star has four 'mechs and a point of Aerospace fighters.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 July 2018, 16:20:48
No . . . a Command Star is 4 similar points and a single complimentary point.  Look in the FMs- both WC and CC- and you will find the command stars with both.

Not meaning warriors, but a mix of the equipment between Crusader & Warden specifics . . . for instance, the Black Wolf BA, the Isegrim DS, and a few other bits were developed together.  But the Crusaders & Wardens have trialed each other . . and fight or trade with the LC, JF, GBD & HH- so the equipment could trade hands that way.  I was trying to crate a cluster that I could put together and just swap out the bloodnamed/commanders to change from a Warden to Crusader cluster & vice-versa.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 July 2018, 11:28:38
Wolves! as we race towards Terra, what is your ride?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 30 July 2018, 11:48:39
*Pulls out his datapad and drags a merchant over*

Yes....

Tell me about your ride as you race towards Terra.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 30 July 2018, 12:40:01
My choice would be a Woodsman A. If not that maybe my customized Warwolf H or Warwolf A for a standard variant. Or the Carronade, I have a soft spot for that. Maybe even swap the lasers for Clan ones, the regular Gauss for a Clan one and put the extra tonnage into more ammo.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 July 2018, 13:13:25
Warwolf A is my preference as well, and what my campaign's player character drives. H my second most common config of the canon configurations, also favoring a custom that swaps the Prime's Gauss Rifle for a HAG and ECM Suite.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 July 2018, 14:17:58
I think everyone has their own little twist on a canon ride . . .

Personally, I am intrigued by the Wulfen with 3 HMLs?  iHMLs?

I also wish we had a LOT more Supercharger configs, it fits the Wolves faction flavor (cavalry!) . . . and I just want to laugh as the 'sucky' Linebacker is racing about to get into med/short range to exploit the armor/structure at that speed with some decent pod space.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 July 2018, 15:03:29
I think everyone has their own little twist on a canon ride . . .

Personally, I am intrigued by the Wulfen with 3 HMLs?  iHMLs?

I also wish we had a LOT more Supercharger configs, it fits the Wolves faction flavor (cavalry!) . . . and I just want to laugh as the 'sucky' Linebacker is racing about to get into med/short range to exploit the armor/structure at that speed with some decent pod space.

3145 NTNU did give a nice Linebacker config. 2 iHLL, 2 SSRM One Shots. Supercharger. It's my favorite flavor of linebacker.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 July 2018, 15:21:34
Sure . . . but it was given 4 turkeys with the Supercharger . . . 2 big explosions w/o CASE II, and 2 sucktastic SSRM OS?  I have not looked at the RS but I would have preferred some good old ERML and ATMs.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 30 July 2018, 15:53:38
actually they are improved OS SSRM2's.. so at least they aren't wasting weight.
it also has a TC, making those iHLL's pretty effective most of the time.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 July 2018, 16:55:04
Its still OS SSRMs- plain SRMs would be worth more IMO.  And sure it has a TC tied to 2 bombs in the machine.  While they may hit a bit more- its still limited to 15 hexes.  I have not seen the sheet so I am wondering if the config can deal with that heat.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 July 2018, 17:22:14
It can.

I was skeptical of it at first myself. But it has delivered frequently enough to change my mind.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 July 2018, 17:47:09
I have not been able to really exercise the Clan forces recently so I cannot speak to the exact ability of recent configs.  With the weight involved (8 for iHLL, 2 for TC, SC and the iOS) I figured it had to have room for some DHS, just did not know if it was sufficient.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 30 July 2018, 18:26:09
Mangonel is best Wolf 'Mech
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 30 July 2018, 20:02:09
I think as far as what I'd personally prefer to use, it'd definitely be some flavor of Wulfen, albeit definitely weighted toward one with some actual guns on it.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 30 July 2018, 22:18:52
I'd use a Mad Dog IV. Prime or C configuration as appropriate. One's good for cracking open vehs. The other is good for cracking open 'mechs.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kojak on 30 July 2018, 23:02:56
Timber Wolf or GTFO
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 July 2018, 15:01:43
As we get set for Shattered Fortress . . .

Its the 3140s, as a Wolf player do you still feel the rivalries of the 3050s & before?  IE, is it all about killing the Falcons, snubbing what is left of the Hellions (if in contact with Imperio), warily looking in the Bears' direction, ignoring the Horses and knowing you are better than the Lyran social generals?

Or do you hate the Lyrans for (supposedly) killing the Khan on their capital?
Regret not pressing further into the League?
Laugh at the superstitious Cats but respect the Protectorate's martial prowess?
want to stamp the mercenaries off of Galatea and surround worlds?
wrest the Desant from the Falcons?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: truetanker on 31 July 2018, 15:07:06
Wolves! as we race towards Terra, what is your ride?

I think everyone has their own little twist on a canon ride . . .

Septicemia E!

I play Horse all the time!  >:D

TT
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 01 August 2018, 22:43:29
As we get set for Shattered Fortress . . .

Its the 3140s, as a Wolf player do you still feel the rivalries of the 3050s & before?  IE, is it all about killing the Falcons, snubbing what is left of the Hellions (if in contact with Imperio), warily looking in the Bears' direction, ignoring the Horses and knowing you are better than the Lyran social generals?

I always felt like the Falcon Rivalry was stronger on the Falcon side than the Wolf side. They envy Kerensky choosing us, whereas... what do we really have to envy them over? I always got the feeling that when we had Jaguars to fight, that given the choice between fighting the Falcons and fighting the Jaguars, in the absence of extenuating circumstances most invasion Wolves would have chosen the Jaguars.

Generally, I respect the  Bears, miss the Traditional Falcons (Galaxy Commander Stephanie Chistu is a breath of fresh air, even if her hobby would be more at home in Clan Ghost Bear), and am ambivalent about the Horses.

Or do you hate the Lyrans for (supposedly) killing the Khan on their capital?
Regret not pressing further into the League?

My resentment for the Lyran state is far more over their trying to use Clan Wolf as their pet, than the death of a Khan. We can make more of those, but they gravely mistook the nature of our arrangement when they saw themselves our masters. I am content with our cease-fire with the League, and if TRO3150 is to be believed, we have trialed them for Jumpship Maintenance at one of their yards. if they honored these trials, then they are as good a neighbor as I could wish for.

Laugh at the superstitious Cats but respect the Protectorate's martial prowess?

It annoys me that the Cats lash out at Clan Wolf when we are blameless for their misery. The first Ghost Bear to request hegira through the empire to reach them is getting my emphatic approval.

want to stamp the mercenaries off of Galatea and surround worlds?
wrest the Desant from the Falcons?

Pointless Distractions. The Road to Terra awaits us, why waste sweat on them?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 01 August 2018, 22:47:22
Interestingly, The Anvil does not depict Wolves in Exile, but it DOES reference their existence, and is set in 3148. If the speculation about their extinction sparked by TRO3150 does come to fruition, it does so at a far later time than anticipated.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 02 August 2018, 19:33:24
According to my watch agent who has a hardcopy of Shattered Fortress for me...

Encrypted Spoilers Follow Use ROT13 to decode (http://www.rot13.com).

Orybj gur pyvssunatre jurer gurl yrnir vg hc va gur nve jurgure gur Snypbaf be Jbyirf ernpu Green svefg, vf n cvpgher bs na Ngynf VV svtugvat n Fnintr Jbys. Gur fnzr cvpgher gung jnf, V oryvrir, ng bar gvzr fyngrq gb or gur pbire bs vyPyna.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 August 2018, 11:00:48
Interestingly, The Anvil does not depict Wolves in Exile, but it DOES reference their existence, and is set in 3148. If the speculation about their extinction sparked by TRO3150 does come to fruition, it does so at a far later time than anticipated.

To be honest . . . I think Malvina lashes back out with what we saw in the Anvil, and specifically uses what Stephanie did not.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 August 2018, 11:35:26
I fear you may be correct. One would think that would draw a rather strenuous rebuke from the other clans though
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Wrangler on 03 August 2018, 12:07:21
By the way They work  you need manually enter them verse the button.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 August 2018, 12:09:31
She already bled/drained the Horses and is likely sparring with them . . . which leaves the Bears on their shared border, travelling Foxes, distant Ravens and occupied Crusader Wolves who were already fighting Malvina.

Would I love the Bears to pound the Falcons, or the Ravens start raiding their space over nukes?  Sure . . .
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 August 2018, 14:18:25
To be honest . . . I think Malvina lashes back out with what we saw in the Anvil, and specifically uses what Stephanie did not.

Which would make her an idiot because that would end them. If they used that against me I would use it against them at every opportunity. The Clans have a superior weapon in their warriors and equipment. She would make the Inner Sphere an equal with her foolishness.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Wrangler on 03 August 2018, 14:32:49
Without reading the book, sounds like Stephanie being setup as next possible Khan of Clan Jade Falcon.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 August 2018, 14:36:03
If she was then Clan Jade Falcon is in trouble if Alaric decides to challenge her to a duel with melee weapons...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 August 2018, 14:36:44
Kitsune, I would agree except the IS is still scarred from the Jihad apparently and the Warden Wolves may or may not have any to reply . . . and if they did, they would likely have been in the concentration she would have fired them towards.

She executed Ortillery on the Kell Hounds and her Horse allies with very little negative feedback . . . she use plutonium to poison the water of a world, again with little feedback - except to be reviled by everyone who has not clicked their heels to follow her example.

She may . . . but we also have Noritomo Helmer sitting in command of Omega in the Desant.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 August 2018, 14:41:23
Yeah. Actually remembering all that it kind of breaks my immersion.

If I'm Trillian Steiner after what Malvina has done I meet every Falcon Batchall with a tactical nuke. Dropships are all retrofitted to carry warheads until the Falcons are shadows burned into the earth.

It's stupid. Every battle between the Lyran Alliance and Clan Jade Falcon at this point should be aerospace forces desperately trying to keep dropships away.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 August 2018, 17:17:38
A bit of a thought exercise with the establishment of the Wolf Empire . . .

Khan Alaric Ward has selected you, ristar, to be the Star Colonel of a collection of freebirths from the League or Lyrans (pick) to form a new garrison cluster.  You and your officers will be initiating them to what it means to be a Clan warrior and foremost a Wolf.  You equipment for the freebirths will be leftovers from the Inner Sphere isorla that was taken in the campaigns against the League & Lyrans, and brushes with the Remnant & Galatea- it will contain very little Clan tech gear and no OmniMechs.  The Khan has decided that you can select some equipment for your use and the use of your officers- pick your 4-6 officers (Mostly Star Captains, maybe a Star Commander) which will be promoted from their current slots (meaning you cannot tap, without very good reason, a serving frontline Star Captain.  Since we do not have much actual knowledge of warriors, I basically mean types/qualifications.) who will serve under you.  You maybe have other transfers assigned to the Cluster, but these are likely to be nearly solhama or viewed as dezgra.  You will have at months to turn this collection of warriors into a functioning cluster that will take up assignment along our borders.

So as a example, for my garrison cluster . . .

CO- for my ride I would take either a Night Wolf or Tundra Wolf, which is a pocket heavy.  Most of the IS equipment I get would probably not go faster than 4/6 so it works

Officer #1-  I want a well regarded freebirth mechwarrior who was born in the OZ from IS lines, someone who did not come from the Homeworlds enclaves.  This person would be the living example I would encourage the new warriors to strive to be like.  Probably give this Star Captain something like a Fox-built Black Hawk battlemech or a Jade Hawk to lead a faster trinary.

Officer #2-  Elemental Star Captain, someone to train the freebirths infantry in BA operations, assist in training MW how to operate with BA, and teach the MW how to effectively fight BA.  Their point would probably be Clan Med BA, so Rabids or such.

Officer #3-  Dipping for someone capable of logistics work, this would be a mechwarrior, BA trooper or vehicle crewman who was noted as being gifted with logistics.  They would get a promotion to Star Commander and be the Star Colonel's aide.  They would be in the cluster command star, and equipped with- Blood Reaper/Elemental/Joust dependent on type.

Officer #4-  A defense specialist since this is a garrison unit, either a MW or armor trooper preferably.  They will command a supernova of slower mechs & vehicles that will be the anvil in any deployments.  I would also accept someone who gets more out of their artillery.  This Star Colonel would use something like a Warhammer IIC 4 or Carnivore/Morrigu.

Officer #5-  Solid pilot who can work with ground support, not looking for a pilot who can lead DS defense or raid insertion as much as interdiction.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 04 August 2018, 16:12:59
Shattered Fortress Spoilers

Sure looking Wolf ilClan in here!

2nd Succession War SB foreword speaks of the Exarch providing information to the Loremaster. As if the republic existed in some form within the ilClan. I do not see the Falcons suffering the republic to exist in any capacity, do you? I do not see any other proximate contenders as of this sourcebook. And the Empire tends to be pretty hands off regarding civilian government, have they not?

Shattered Fortress depicts a number of "And then the surviving RAF were made into Lower Castes or Bondsmen" moments.

Then there's Stone's conversations with Tucker that sure sound like getting ready to submit to the Wolf Empire.

My bet? The Clan fleet that arrives in the Terran system in 3151 is Wolf, and has been allowed to arrive to fight a Trial for possession of Terra. The same battle we saw fought so many Gencons ago. The one culminating in Alaric versus Stone, and an overall Wolf Victory.


Other things:

Apparently our lower castes on Phecda were loyal enough to sabotage the RAF occupation. Doubly funny since the Republic seemed to be using that same tactic against the combine and confederation

Outreach is in Capellan hands. I want it back.

The Wolves in Exile have vanished to points unknown. I want to know them.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Niopsian on 04 August 2018, 18:58:02
Shattered Fortress Spoilers

The Wolves in Exile have vanished to points unknown. I want to know them.


I'm guessing to wherever Calamity Kell meant when she sent the message saying to meet "Where It All Began".

Which could be a few things, actually. Donegal, since that's where Arthur Luvon christened the Kell Hounds. Or maybe the periphery world where Morgan, Patrick and Katrina found the black boxes?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 04 August 2018, 19:20:25
My guess is The Rock.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 06 August 2018, 03:25:54
Makes you almost wonder what happened to Garner Kerensky...
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 06 August 2018, 03:40:48
It matters little. He failed Clan Wolf. Anastasia Kerensky still breathes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 06 August 2018, 03:50:19
It matters little. He failed Clan Wolf. Anastasia Kerensky still breathes.

And I have no doubt that Anna K aided in said failure
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 August 2018, 10:28:54
Makes you almost wonder what happened to Garner Kerensky...

Well, there was the article about that . . .

And it was nice to see my prediction on nuking Arc Royal was off- particularly since it happened before Anvil.

I really have to wonder how her neighbors would take the news of Malvina sending Elementals to rampage through Iron Wombs and sibko children.  TPTB definitely want to keep my Warden Wolf hate on for the Falcons.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2018, 15:30:33
I'm guessing to wherever Calamity Kell meant when she sent the message saying to meet "Where It All Began".

Which could be a few things, actually. Donegal, since that's where Arthur Luvon christened the Kell Hounds. Or maybe the periphery world where Morgan, Patrick and Katrina found the black boxes?


Terra.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 06 August 2018, 15:56:11
I'm guessing to wherever Calamity Kell meant when she sent the message saying to meet "Where It All Began".

Which could be a few things, actually. Donegal, since that's where Arthur Luvon christened the Kell Hounds. Or maybe the periphery world where Morgan, Patrick and Katrina found the black boxes?

Terra.

I hadn't considered the WiE as having any chance of being ilClan... and while ultimately Clan Jekyll Wolf is less plausible than Clan Hyde Wolf of being ilClan... I gotta admit it's a lot more plausible than I was originally thinking.  The idea has got a lot of potential.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2018, 16:20:19
Terra.


I hadn't considered the WiE as having any chance of being ilClan... and while ultimately Clan Jekyll Wolf is less plausible than Clan Hyde Wolf of being ilClan... I gotta admit it's a lot more plausible than I was originally thinking.  The idea has got a lot of potential.

They suffer the same problems as the Smoke Jaguars. They aren't considered a real clan. But, "Where it all began." for the Clans is Terra and "Where it all began" for the darkage is essentially the same place. They may not even be trying to become Ilclan. But it seems to me if you're Warden Wolves and want to protect the Inner Sphere there is only one place to protect the Inner Sphere from right now and that's Terra.

Callandre is also there in the novel Fortress Republic. But the Exiles are one of the few factions to not have a representative there.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2018, 16:26:14
Hunting down the passage in Fortress though she is addressing the Kell Hounds. Not the Wolves in Exile. Though, if I were the Wolves in Exile, Terra is still the place I'd have to go.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 06 August 2018, 16:28:49
Terra might be the final destination, but she's talking about where they will meet up for their "Exodus." Maybe New Samarkand, then?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2018, 16:39:47
The Kell Hounds could be off to Galatea where the unit was founded. It's still Lyran. But I wouldn't put all of my civilians there.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Decoy on 06 August 2018, 17:32:17
You think ;)

For all we know it's at The Rock where one side first met the other. or it could be out on Poulsbo or ANY other place from Kell Hound history. The question should be "Where what began?"
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: ColBosch on 06 August 2018, 17:35:31
You think ;)

For all we know it's at The Rock where one side first met the other. or it could be out on Poulsbo or ANY other place from Kell Hound history. The question should be "Where what began?"

IT ALL. Come on, people!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2018, 17:57:53
IT ALL. Come on, people!

 ;D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 August 2018, 18:05:53
TRo3150 said Kell headed off to the Periphery . . . I expect them to try to find a safe place to stash everyone before going on a headhunting mission of Malvina.  Killing her definitely fits into the Warden cause.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2018, 19:58:33
So perhaps they've gone to where the Red Corsair (Katrina Steiner) and Morgan Kell found that lostech back in the day.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Scotty on 06 August 2018, 20:02:39
I find it hard to believe that the fleet could be Wolf Empire, since less than two months earlier Alaric skipped a jumpship off the Terran Wall for the exact same reason.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Summoner on 06 August 2018, 20:20:45
I find it hard to believe that the fleet could be Wolf Empire, since less than two months earlier Alaric skipped a jumpship off the Terran Wall for the exact same reason.

I am thinking it isn’t Wolf.  It will be either WiE, Ghost Bear, or CSA.  CSA because that would be the most radical twist and they might want to weave the HW Clans back into the plot for the big finish in the next book. Ghost Bear because they are the most powerful Wardens in the IS and WiE because as they Warden faction of Wolf. It’s obviously going to be whoever Stone “invites”. I still am holding out hope that Wolf Empire gets it, but I have doubts.  I also think we’re in for a couple more twists.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 August 2018, 01:08:42
I am thinking it isn’t Wolf.  It will be either WiE, Ghost Bear, or CSA.  CSA because that would be the most radical twist and they might want to weave the HW Clans back into the plot for the big finish in the next book. Ghost Bear because they are the most powerful Wardens in the IS and WiE because as they Warden faction of Wolf. It’s obviously going to be whoever Stone “invites”. I still am holding out hope that Wolf Empire gets it, but I have doubts.  I also think we’re in for a couple more twists.

The most radical twist is Clan Hells Horses. The next most radical twist is the Raven Alliance. After that I would say is Clan Wolf in Exile, Clan Smoke Jaguar or Clan Sea Fox. Then I would say in order, from most radical to least radical it would go, Ghost Bear Dominion, Whatever Home Clan, Clan Jade Falcon and then Wolf Empire.

I guess that's my order for Ilclan. But I don't think a home clan is particularly surprising. It's too easy of a surprise.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: wantec on 07 August 2018, 09:18:46
I am thinking it isn’t Wolf.  It will be either WiE, Ghost Bear, or CSA.  CSA because that would be the most radical twist and they might want to weave the HW Clans back into the plot for the big finish in the next book. Ghost Bear because they are the most powerful Wardens in the IS and WiE because as they Warden faction of Wolf. It’s obviously going to be whoever Stone “invites”. I still am holding out hope that Wolf Empire gets it, but I have doubts.  I also think we’re in for a couple more twists.
Just because I'm curious and honestly I can't remember, do the Exiles have much of a fleet at this point? Obviously they have the transportation assets to get their combat units and disappear, but do they have much in the way of warships, pocket warships, or assault dropships?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Summoner on 07 August 2018, 09:49:34
Just because I'm curious and honestly I can't remember, do the Exiles have much of a fleet at this point? Obviously they have the transportation assets to get their combat units and disappear, but do they have much in the way of warships, pocket warships, or assault dropships?

No idea, but ideologically if Stone was going to make a deal with an IS Clan I think it would be WiE or GB.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 07 August 2018, 10:48:03
IT ALL. Come on, people!

IT ALL-->ITALL-->I TALL--> The first planet in the Tall Trees system.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 August 2018, 10:48:43
IT ALL-->ITALL-->I TALL--> The first planet in the Tall Trees system.

Foxx Ittal?!?!?

Foxx Ittal is Ilkhan!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 07 August 2018, 12:14:25
So if Wolf in Exile IS on Terra, how do they expect to hold it when they can't even keep arc Royal?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 12:38:14
Well . . . the battle of Arc Royal sounded like it was a small portion of what remained- both Keshiks and a cluster with whatever sibkos could be armed.  Patrik Fetladral was the Khan for the Dark Age period- and to be honest I am not mourning his passing, he seemed rather complacent which might be a cultural indicator- and Selena Woods was the saKhan . . .

But after Fetladral fell we are told saKhan Miriam Shaw evacuated what remained- how much material they could take with them makes me wonder.  Miriam Shaw seems made of sterner stuff and hopefully could lead to rebirth/expansion . . . as should have happened after the Jihad.

So to offer a 3rd option of where the Wolves could have ended up . . . what about the Imperio?  If the Scorpions still exist they were long time allies with the old Wolves.

As far was warships . . . Implacable (Black Lion) was reamed by the Bears, Werewolf (McKenna) ate a nuke?, not sure what happened to the Ulric Kerensky (Cameron) or the pair of Aegis but pretty sure they are gone, the Full Moon (Potemkin) flew through a plot hole in the 3080s/3090s- which leaves us with a pair of Vincents supported by Isegrims, Miraborgs, Mercers, and Nagasawas.  Not sure the Vincents survived, but I do not recall anything specific to them being dead.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Øystein on 07 August 2018, 12:55:13
CWiE has no warships anymore.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 August 2018, 13:04:18
So if Wolf in Exile IS on Terra, how do they expect to hold it when they can't even keep arc Royal?

With that Army we were given a glimpse of.

I think it's a neat spin to imagine the RAF vs Wolves artwork we've seen on a couple covers now could be wholly or partially WiE pilots inside the RAF mechs.

CWiE has no warships anymore.

to be precise: the passage about the fleet that explicitly says it is Clan never makes clear that WarShips are part of that fleet.  It's a fleet of "Clan vessels".  That easily could mean nothing but JumpShips and DropShips without so much as even a single PWS.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Summoner on 07 August 2018, 17:25:09
CWiE has no warships anymore.

Well that Torpedos my theory...

Reading the speculation thread I am more convinced now that it could be a Wolf fleet but that may not be the Clan that ends up with Terra.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 17:27:12
Warships are so passe . . . its all about dropships with big guns now!

I do love how 'warships cause problems in the setting, so we destroyed a bunch in the Jihad to get rid of them' and now with Shattered Fortress we get orbital strikes (Mad Mal), and plenty of instance of ASF bombing mech & armor concentrations to soften them up for mech assaults.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: truetanker on 07 August 2018, 18:55:27
My bet is on Mallory's World.

Anyone else... it's where Morgan became the key de facto owner of the Kell Hounds, after his brother died and he took over. Remember, he left to join a monastery on Zaniah after that battle.

TT
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Foxx Ital on 07 August 2018, 20:12:19
Foxx Ittal?!?!?

Foxx Ittal is Ilkhan!

 My first official act is is to bring back the woodsman, then license it to the sea foxs for dissemination across the sphere.

 My real guess is the ravens, I get scared when I haven't heard from them in a while. Kinda like when you're  babysitting and suddenly it goes quiet.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 August 2018, 21:06:01

 My first official act is is to bring back the woodsman, then license it to the sea foxs for dissemination across the sphere.

 My real guess is the ravens, I get scared when I haven't heard from them in a while. Kinda like when you're  babysitting and suddenly it goes quiet.

How do you sleep at night with the Chainelanes right above the Dominion then?  ;D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 August 2018, 21:43:19
My real guess is the ravens, I get scared when I haven't heard from them in a while. Kinda like when you're  babysitting and suddenly it goes quiet.

Nothing bad is happening. We're helping  >:D
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: jklantern on 07 August 2018, 21:56:45
Nothing bad is happening. We're helping  >:D

Suddenly, a recurring line from 8-Bit Theater comes to mind.

"It's LIKE help."
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 August 2018, 22:16:48
We're helping hands.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 08 August 2018, 11:14:50

 My first official act is is to bring back the woodsman, then license it to the sea foxs for dissemination across the sphere.


By your command.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 August 2018, 12:55:45
Btw . . . for anyone who did not catch it, we find out what happened to Jacob Carns from Bonfire of Worlds.  Jacob Carns was a Warden Wolf sibkin of Verena and both of them were on the bridge before the Wolf Empire kicked off their last offensive against the League.  Alaric offered him the option of joining the Crusaders as a bondsmen or being returned to the Wardens . . .

 . . . he was returned to the Wardens, either resumed or gained the post of Star Colonel in charge of the 1st Wolf Legion.  He commanded the Legion and supporting solahma infantry in holding the line at Wolf City as the new Khan gathered everything she could to escape off world.  While the Legion had already been in combat for weeks, they faced the 53rd Falcon Talon and 6th Falcon Striker before Malvina led her Raptor Keshik in to steal the glory from her subordinates.  By the time it was over, only three Legion warriors survived to be taken bondsmen and the two Falcon clusters that had led the way were reduced to a shadow of their former selves.

"Attention First Wolf Legion!  The Falcons killed our Khan, slaughtered our sibkos, and think they can destroy us!  They are wrong!  Our Clan is in retreat, and we must stop those arrogant surats that dare call themselves Jade Falcons from breaking through and claiming more of our Clan.  I have one order:  No Falcon gets past us!"  -Star Colonel Jacob Carns, 1st Wolf Legion, 29 Sept 3146
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 October 2018, 16:56:32
Maybe someone can answer this for me . . .

Longinus C- I know it has Advanced SRM4s (why can that missile system not be one mechs . . . ) but is it built with Clan internal structure or IS?  What gun does it have, or is it a MWM equipped suit?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: truetanker on 11 October 2018, 18:30:51
I think Wolf makes it, aff?

So IS-based Clantech, but no Harjel if memory serves me.

TT
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 October 2018, 23:35:57
No Harjel is the fluff I saw on Sarna but I do not have the sheet or a RS for it- from TRO 3150.  If it is Clan internal- despite missing the Harjel- then it should be awesome jumping with that missile pack.  I also cannot find it in MegaMek but I have not updated it since . . . spring?

Reason I ask is it could be like the Surat . . . IS suit with Clan weapons- my fear is its only Clan weapon is the Adv SRM4.  Honestly it should dump the MWM and just slap a AP Gauss on the end . . . a medium suit, going 1/3 with 10 HP, AP Gauss and that A-SRM4 for mechanized work is solid.  I just want it to jump with the missiles.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 12 October 2018, 10:55:40
No such record sheet exists.  ::) None of the good stuff in TRO3150 has a record sheet. And giving them record sheets does not seem to be a priority either. So things like the Longinus C and the Orion C remain something of a mystery. Though, all of the theoretical interpretations of the Orion C that I've run have been monsters.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 22 November 2018, 16:52:16
my belly full of vanquished bird this holiday, I begin to wonder about the nature of the rivalries and alliances the Wolves have with other clans...

I always had the impression that the Falcon rivalry was weighted more to the side of the Falcons, than the Wolves. Going all the way back to them being affronted that the Founder chose Clan Wolf instead of Jade Falcon, and festering ever since. Not to say that the Wolves do not enjoy antagonizing them, but that it was far from their first priority.

On the other hand, I always felt like their beef with the Smoke Jaguars was more intense. Like, if you gave a Wolf Warrior a chance to best a Falcon or a Jaguar, they would choose the Jaguar 9 times out of 10. The Jaguars certainly reciprocated, too.

I recall Cyrilla Ward and Natasha Kerensky fondly remembering bullying Jaguars. Vlad may have considered Marthe a rival, but she was still a suitable coupling partner. I do not recall many Jaguars being willing to socialize with wolves on any level.

Alliances, on the other hand... Well, the Wolves really got left to stand on their own when it came to refusing REVIVAL. Even their allies left them out to dry on that one. Of our allies  the Coyotes always seemed to be our better friends as time went on. I am having a hard time remembering a time the Goliath Scorpions were helpful or friendly to the Wolves past the absorbtion of the Widowmakers. The Coyotes on the other hand were brothers to us even as we departed the homeworlds. They Shared Omnimechs with us, they helped us in moments of need, I even wager that if the home clans ever return to the sphere, that they will be fondly disposed to the Wolf Clan, if anyone is (conversely, I think the Horses are most likely to turn coats and fight alongside the home clans). I somewhat wonder if it was not just our easy handling of our lower castes, but also Coyote good will that limited the impact of the Society upon Clan Wolf, given that the Coyotes and the Society were closely linked.

What do my fellow Wolves think?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Icerose20 on 22 November 2018, 22:07:58
As a Coyote and a Warden, dealing with Vlad's Wolves was interesting.   Considering Vlad was always consolidating power, when the Blakist decided that Tamar need to be cleaned with nuclear fire, the amount of Socitey collaborators was greatly diminished, and more worried about their survival in the IS. 

As for how my clan reacts to the Wolves now, more depends on how the clan, and the rest have changed.  We dont know hwo the remaining HW Clans have developed in the 60+ years, if we ever.

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 November 2018, 12:48:26
Scorpions come into play in a few ways . . . they were the source of the original Elemental BA proto-types, deep water mining suits.  The Scorpions also provided their databases on SL doctrine and played the role of trainers against the Dragoons before sending them off.  Some Scorpions joined the Dragoons and the Wolves perhaps traded officers to keep a few trainers in the Clan after the Dragoons were sent off- check Vlad Dinour's fluff from WCSB and the 37th? Striker Cluster?  I think the cluster even honors the Scorpion trainers with its name.  It is absolutely organized differently with each trinary having a star of mechs, star of BA and star of ASF.

I think one of the other things that makes the Scorpions allies is that the Scorpions are content to leave their borders with the Wolves alone.  Face it . . . outside of the Coyotes, anyone else not fight the Wolves for territory?

The Wolves SHOULD have employed their friendly links to the Scorpions to use Potemkins for shipping.  Ulric could have moved a lot of stuff if he had access to the Scorpion's Potemkin fleet.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 November 2018, 19:49:29
If you forced me to come up with a reason that Ulric did not take advantage of that potential aid, I would speculate it was because Ulric's goals had a lot more to do with fouling up REVIVAL and trolling the other clans first, and winning it only as a second option if they could not spoil it. An Ulric who was earnestly committed to REVIVAL's goal would have been foolish not to do that. It would give the scorpions a great chance to lug some seekers along too.

As for other clans who've not antagonized the Wolf, I am having a hard time remembering any hostilities between Clan Wolf and the Fire Mandrills. The Mandrills even share our love of la crosse. this may have more to do with a lack of relevance to each other, and the mandrill infighting rather than respect. Their blurbs about each other in FMCC are certainly no love letters. I wouldn't count that as definitive though, the same section's analysis of the coyotes isn't that flattering either, but they turned out to be our truest friends come the Wars of Reaving. FMCC also reminds me of a certain... apathy? indifference? to the Cloud Cobras. To be honest though, they are a clan I forget existed.

On a meta level, I feel like the bad blood between bear and wolf exists more because a Bear/Wolf teamup would be like an unbroken fedcom, a big Game Over for everybody else. Seems like they were friends with the Exiles on the down-low though.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Orwell84 on 04 December 2018, 06:18:09
If you forced me to come up with a reason that Ulric did not take advantage of that potential aid, I would speculate it was because Ulric's goals had a lot more to do with fouling up REVIVAL and trolling the other clans first, and winning it only as a second option if they could not spoil it. An Ulric who was earnestly committed to REVIVAL's goal would have been foolish not to do that. It would give the scorpions a great chance to lug some seekers along too.

I recall from Lost Destiny that Phelan Ward outright stated to the other Khans that Ulric's goal was to stall the invasion. His analogy was that of a knife against a whetstone: in the end the Clans would be ground to nothing. That may yet happen, but as of Shattered Fortress I don't see any of the major Clans choking on their expanded empires.

As for other clans who've not antagonized the Wolf, I am having a hard time remembering any hostilities between Clan Wolf and the Fire Mandrills. The Mandrills even share our love of la crosse. this may have more to do with a lack of relevance to each other, and the mandrill infighting rather than respect. Their blurbs about each other in FMCC are certainly no love letters. I wouldn't count that as definitive though, the same section's analysis of the coyotes isn't that flattering either, but they turned out to be our truest friends come the Wars of Reaving. FMCC also reminds me of a certain... apathy? indifference? to the Cloud Cobras. To be honest though, they are a clan I forget existed.

The Hell's Horses also had a chummy relationship with the Wolves, until first Vlad Ward abused those ties and then the two Clans needed to compete for the same Spheroid turf.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 December 2018, 12:08:00
Since his Refusal had been defeated, Ulric went the path of out-'Crusading' the Crusaders while he was Khan.  Its why he as part of Revival he kept his operational pace high as well as hitting a lot of worlds unlike the actual Crusader Clans.  To hit that operational tempo he, or someone in his keshik who was involved in the planning, staged supplies forward with those supply caches in frontline systems- not sure if we were ever told if they were un-inhabited or just occupied systems- while his Clusters that had been involved in the fighting consolidated their hold.  He also sourced as much stuff locally so the shipments from Clan space was for the vital stuff that could not be found locally.  Food, water, uniforms, medical supplies, standard armor, maybe ammo depending on your BTU interpretation, building supplies, tools, ICE fuel, POL, support vehicles (VTOLs, trucks, jeep analogues), and anything else that a army might need on the march- a sort of BTU Sherman's March to the Sea, full scale foraging.  Which, since Ulric was waging a logistics war against the Crusaders a handful of Potemkins being added to his logistics planning would have been huge- see https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63210.msg1453823#msg1453823 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63210.msg1453823#msg1453823).

While not explicitly said, the indication is this is different from the other three Crusader Clans.  AFAIK Aiden's story did not cover the Falcons seizing property and looting storehouses for what they needed.  We get indications the three Crusader Clans did not care about their logistics and told their tech/merchants to just get everything from the Home Worlds to the IS.  The benefit of Ulric's approach is multitude- first since the Clans only care about success, its what he has and means the non-Invaders will listen more in Council than to the Crusader Invaders.  Second it puts a LOT of pressure on the invading Crusader leadership, those without bloodnames need combat to get Bloodnamed killed and to prove themselves for advancement.  Those with Bloodnames want higher ranked individuals to fall, either through failure or in combat, so they can advance either in Bloodhouse politics or in Clan rank.  This is why Aletha was able to replace the Khan after she was elected, the core of the Ghost Bear touman was disappointed in their showing in the Invasion and wanted new leadership to get the Clan on track.  The final advantage is the one most people acknowledge, it forced the Crusaders to hurry up their assaults which resulted in more casualties and equipment damage- along with damage to the Crusader's reputation.

When Ulric became ilKhan . . . well, then the plan was cranked up to 11.  Natasha and Garth Radick kept up the pace of the Wolf assaults to keep the pressure up.  ilKhan Ulric increased the pressure on the Crusaders using his new powers.  He added to the invading Clans by pairing enemies with the two strongest Crusader Clans which increased the competition for invasion targets and would add to the dissension in the Falcon & Jaguar ranks- not sure it really had a affect on the Falcons since Crichell was such a operator but the Jaguar's constant change of Khans and the election after Tukayyid would indicate it did work in that Clan.  Ulric also negotiated the proxy fight that we know offered such enticing rewards but exploited the other Clans' weakness, and even with Ulric's logistics work the Wolves were not sitting too much better in the supply department.

Orwell, Ulric won since until Seth War followed Alaric's plan (another March to the Sea!) the Clans as a whole had not managed to break past the Truce line for the most part.    A third of the Clans he knew were destroyed (Burrocks, Spirits, Mandrills, Hellions, Vipers, Jaguars), more were subsumed by the IS/Peri pops aka capturing the fly paper (Bears, Ravens, Scorpions, Cats, Warden Wolves), or abandoned any present moves against the IS (Adders, Coyotes, Cobras, Lions)  This left the Crusader Wolves, Falcons and Horses . . . and Malvina's Falcons is what Ulric most feared for the future.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 January 2019, 12:10:27
I stumbled across the Orion IIC 'Burton' . . . and I have to say, ew . . . they ruined the mech.  XL, HAG, and more ammo?  A single ATM3 on a heavy mech?

While I would have liked to see a 2 go with a LB-10X and ATMs instead of LRM/SRM . . . or HAG & ATMs if we had to keep the gauss . . .

The Burton is a sad new toy against the rock solid old Orion IIC.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 February 2019, 14:28:08
Fortunately that's a one-off custom.

the REAL successor to the Orion IIc is the Orion C that we still (grumble grumble) do not have official record sheets for. But all my attempts to approximate it based on 3150 NTNU have indicated that it will be a beast and a half. Basically an advanced clantech ON2-M and that's wonderful.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 February 2019, 15:18:51
Curious as to what you are putting on it . . .

I mean, I see SFE, IS ES, Clan DHS, Clan weapons (GR, SLRM15, 3 MPL), and Clan FF armor . . . but I like the ERLL from the original and wish we had gotten a 2 with ATMs instead of LRM/SRMs.  Hmm, how bad would the C be with that Watchdog CEWS.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sartris on 05 February 2019, 16:33:45
Fortunately that's a one-off custom.

the REAL successor to the Orion IIc is the Orion C that we still (grumble grumble) do not have official record sheets for. But all my attempts to approximate it based on 3150 NTNU have indicated that it will be a beast and a half. Basically an advanced clantech ON2-M and that's wonderful.

that's a big W for me
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: nckestrel on 05 February 2019, 17:09:02
Longinus looks like IS internal, AP weapon mount.  Armor is clan.

Orion sounds right, it's er medium pulse lasers though, not plain MPL.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 February 2019, 17:41:49
Longinus looks like IS internal, AP weapon mount.  Armor is clan.

Orion sounds right, it's er medium pulse lasers though, not plain MPL.

IS Internal means it still cannot jump with missiles, BUT it sounds like expected for a hasty patch to the design.  Figure Advanced SRMs?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: nckestrel on 05 February 2019, 17:44:01
IS Internal means it still cannot jump with missiles, BUT it sounds like expected for a hasty patch to the design.  Figure Advanced SRMs?

Yep on both.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 February 2019, 18:20:55
TRO specifies an ASRM4.

For the Orion, the main point of contention in my interpretation is the ratio of ammunition and armor. the TRO blurb specifies that it has the same amount of armor as the ON2-M, but it does not specify whether that's the same amount of protection (points of armor) or tonnage of armor.

Gauss Rifle, SLRM-15, 3x ERMPL, and then my preferred interpretation is 189pts of FL armor, 2t Streak LRM, 3t Gauss.

For the Longinus C, I went ASRM-4 with 3 shots, Small Laser, Clan Armor, and it already has an AP Weapon Mount.  Since MML showed a 0t Clan Magclamp system available, I added that too because of the decreased availability of Omnimechs, but there's no fluff to make me think it would have that. I just wanted it to for my own use.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: nckestrel on 05 February 2019, 18:35:25
TRO specifies an ASRM4.

For the Orion, the main point of contention in my interpretation is the ratio of ammunition and armor. the TRO blurb specifies that it has the same amount of armor as the ON2-M, but it does not specify whether that's the same amount of protection (points of armor) or tonnage of armor.

Gauss Rifle, SLRM-15, 3x ERMPL, and then my preferred interpretation is 189pts of FL armor, 2t Streak LRM, 3t Gauss.
224 armor. 2 ton gauss.
Quote
For the Longinus C, I went ASRM-4 with 3 shots, Small Laser, Clan Armor, and it already has an AP Weapon Mount.  Since MML showed a 0t Clan Magclamp system available, I added that too because of the decreased availability of Omnimechs, but there's no fluff to make me think it would have that. I just wanted it to for my own use.
it has a modular mount (220 kg) and an AP weapon mount.  IS mag clamp.  one-shot asrm-4.  10 clan armor.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 February 2019, 18:37:44
Yeah, since it cannot jump with a missile pack, not sure why you want that many shots on a med.  And forget a small laser, its criminal if Clan BA is not mounting AP Gauss.  The Mag Clamp is a nice addition, this is basically a proto-Elemental suit with advanced weapons.

Though I am still trying to find the rules bit where the AP mount dinks armor.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 07 February 2019, 17:31:27
224 armor. 2 ton gauss.

it has a modular mount (220 kg) and an AP weapon mount.  IS mag clamp.  one-shot asrm-4.  10 clan armor.

Answers that I have been waiting quite awhile on. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: truetanker on 09 February 2019, 23:10:36
AP mount dinks armour by rounding up on .5+, if said weapon does enough damage to do so
 It's then treated as 1 point damage.

TT
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 February 2019, 23:12:08
Which is what I thought but I had someone saying it did no BT damage b/c they did not show up on some old sheets.  I would have to look at the date on them.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 10 February 2019, 04:25:14
224 FL.
GR (16)
SLRM15 (16)
3 x ERMPL
2 x CASE II

Placement is per ON2-M.

I was never here.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 February 2019, 04:43:45
 . . . which is REALLY interesting since the topic came up, and suddenly we have a few topics saying what those variants turned out to be . .

Pure Clan or mixed tech?

And if we had not heard the Longinus C before, then that was the first crack in the wall.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 10 February 2019, 05:22:14
Inner Sphere engine and Endo chassis.

From memory all of the Wolf NTNU in 3150 is from FWL factories so based on IS chassis.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 February 2019, 05:39:52
What I figured, but there is a weight difference in the CASE IIs.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 10 February 2019, 06:06:00
Crits seem off to me. Or I am stupid and doing something wrong, which is more likely
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 February 2019, 06:34:58
The Orion 2M had 2 spare crits . . . basically 1 in each arm.  Converting to the GR and SLRM frees up 2 crits . . . and the new CASE II take 1 & expanding the MPL to erMPL takes up the other 3.  Basically the only difference is the 1 'Roll Again' in each arm goes away.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 10 February 2019, 15:13:39
Can I just say that I am absolutely in love with so many of our equipment options at the current point in the timeline?

Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: truetanker on 10 February 2019, 15:52:09
@Colt

Under the TechManual v3.0 found in the errata section on this forum, should have a better understanding...

UNFORTUNATLY: it's incomplete as of date... the newer House books and AToW and Companion have added more weapons, as has a few of the sourcebooks... including IO, which contains the Vintage weapons...

I'll share with you a copy of my report in a PM.

TT
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 10 February 2019, 21:36:09
The Orion 2M had 2 spare crits . . . basically 1 in each arm.  Converting to the GR and SLRM frees up 2 crits . . . and the new CASE II take 1 & expanding the MPL to erMPL takes up the other 3.  Basically the only difference is the 1 'Roll Again' in each arm goes away.

Yeah, I figured what I was doing wrong. Works now
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 11 February 2019, 07:25:43
So...

BattleMaster C 2
Orion C

Cheetah IIC
Defender II C

Longinus C

Have I missed anything?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: nckestrel on 11 February 2019, 07:38:54
The Tempest C is Clan Protectorate rather than Clan Wolf.  (I need to check that errata got posted..)
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 11 February 2019, 07:55:22
Fixed.

I must admit the Clans finally getting into the FWL offered some interesting opportunities. Just imagine what we will do with Canopian factories.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sharpnel on 11 February 2019, 09:19:53
Fixed.

I must admit the Clans finally getting into the FWL offered some interesting opportunities. Just imagine what we will do with Canopian factories.
What Canopian factories? IIRC, Detroit, their largest of new technology fell into Capellan hands during the Dark Age. They might still be
getting Mechs from there, but all it takes is for Ilsa and Dao-shen/Danai to have a little argument and that source gets turned off rather quickly.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 February 2019, 11:14:34
So...

BattleMaster C 2
Orion C

Cheetah IIC
Defender II C

Longinus C

Have I missed anything?

 . . . are you pushing their specs out the door?  Cause I am still looking for the Juliano with cERLL from the Protectorate.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 11 February 2019, 11:31:30
What Canopian factories? IIRC, Detroit, their largest of new technology fell into Capellan hands during the Dark Age. They might still be
getting Mechs from there, but all it takes is for Ilsa and Dao-shen/Danai to have a little argument and that source gets turned off rather quickly.

Majesty Metals and Manufacturing has four locations all by itself and close to a dozen different chassis, more than Detroit does.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sartris on 11 February 2019, 12:59:53
huh. i combed through the available records a while back for ca 3089-3100 and only got eight 'mech chassis on three worlds. does that include vehicles or did i miss something?

Locust
Wasp
Ebony
Marauder
Phoenix Hawk
Stinger
Penthesilea
Shadow Hawk
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: nckestrel on 11 February 2019, 13:02:07
Koschei
Agrotera
Calliope

Four if you count Ballad II?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Sartris on 11 February 2019, 13:15:06
ah, the Calliope and Agrotera are post-3100. haven't tackled that yet (mostly because the line reactivation info is super sporadic right now). The koschei I just had the wrong manufacturer entered.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 February 2019, 13:44:09
Well, it was a Tikonov design . . . but it was shared to Canopus- probably a deal where they were trying to get some sort of return for reviving the design since it did not fit Xin Sheng.

For those who know, does the Longinus C w/APG have better boarding performance than the original?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 11 February 2019, 16:42:33
. . . are you pushing their specs out the door? 

No. Just teasing/encouraging discussion.

For those who know, does the Longinus C w/APG have better boarding performance than the original?

Mag Clamps don't add any bonuses. So no better than a MG or FL Longinus.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 February 2019, 16:54:41
Nothing for the extra point of armor or better SRMs . . . lol, though letting them off in a confined space would be a bad idea.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 11 February 2019, 17:10:03
What I find interesting is what these designs say about the Wolf Empire's Clantech manufacturing capabilities, or lack thereof. The fact that these are mixed-tech designs with Inner Sphere chassis and Clan weapons/armour seems to suggest that the Empire's capacity to build full Clantech BattleMechs is limited. Added to that, the weapons/armour could just as easily be built locally as they could be imported from the Sea Foxes.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: nckestrel on 11 February 2019, 17:15:02
Or the hurry they are in.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 February 2019, 18:41:27
What I find interesting is what these designs say about the Wolf Empire's Clantech manufacturing capabilities, or lack thereof. The fact that these are mixed-tech designs with Inner Sphere chassis and Clan weapons/armour seems to suggest that the Empire's capacity to build full Clantech BattleMechs is limited. Added to that, the weapons/armour could just as easily be built locally as they could be imported from the Sea Foxes.

In the case of the Orion, there's nothing to gain from switching to Clan Grade Endosteel except downtime.

In the case of the Longinus, it saves on having to fill the things with harjel.

In the case of the Aerospace fighters, well, Wolves ARE desperate there, and need any planes now instead of good planes later.

There is an awful lot of manufacturing that we uprooted from the Clan OZ, that has not shown back up as being reestablished in the Wolf Empire, so I would assume that we are prioritizing the rapid production of good enough, over the eventual production of perfect.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 11 February 2019, 18:48:11
Who cares about the factories. What about the techs. Swathes of the civilian castes were left to the tender mercies of the Falcons and Horses. So where is the institutional knowledge to rebuild and run Clantech factories going to come from?

Frankly the whole Wolf Empire storyline is crazy and only reinforces my conjecture that the best way to relocate your faction is to prepare and carry as little as possible.

The only way this pays off for the Wolves is if they have enough momentum to continue on to Terra. If they lose momentum they have a lot of recovering to do.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 February 2019, 18:50:37
I'll have to grab FM3145 but i do recall them putting emphasis on most-essential-personnel, prioritizing scientists, engineers and technicians over brute labor.

I also have the theory that, while never stated, I suspect a lot of the surges to grab Lyran territory after we turned on the chain-yankers, was to recover the dropships full of Lower Castes that the Lyrans were dallying along with.


Here we go.

Quote from: FM3145 Pg 152
Furthermore, while they took their best and brightest scientists, technicians and merchants, the vast majority of the labor castes—the people who actually ran things—were abandoned as well.

Which, if I have to choose, I'm going to leave behind the people who lift heavy things, and work assembly line positions, and rotely press buttons, over the brains of the operation. You can take a factory worker from the Free Worlds League and they're not going to be any less capable than a Wolf OZ Factory Worker, considering that many of those Wolf OZ Factory Workers were of spheroid origin to begin with.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 February 2019, 18:59:42
What I find interesting is what these designs say about the Wolf Empire's Clantech manufacturing capabilities, or lack thereof. The fact that these are mixed-tech designs with Inner Sphere chassis and Clan weapons/armour seems to suggest that the Empire's capacity to build full Clantech BattleMechs is limited. Added to that, the weapons/armour could just as easily be built locally as they could be imported from the Sea Foxes.

I think it partly comes down to 'good enough' and the Clan mentality.  Its not like the frontline galaxies are not really getting their pick of the gear.  Most of the new 'C' stuff is to bulk out the touman for the freebirth leevies.  It delivers the heavier firepower of Clean weapons but lacks some of the finesse/'durability for load' you can find with pure Clan designs.  With that said, having a SFE for what are obviously secondline designs keeps them durable when they do not need the speed the frontline Clusters do with their 5/8 standard.

It will be interesting to see if they use them as fodder for the elite.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 11 February 2019, 19:37:39

Here we go.

Which, if I have to choose, I'm going to leave behind the people who lift heavy things, and work assembly line positions, and rotely press buttons, over the brains of the operation. You can take a factory worker from the Free Worlds League and they're not going to be any less capable than a Wolf OZ Factory Worker, considering that many of those Wolf OZ Factory Workers were of spheroid origin to begin with.

While you are correct to prioritize the brains you are vastly underestimating the button pushers.

There are a series of subtle things that they do built up over generations and passed on through training that are lost if you lose them.

A well publicized recent example is the US's inability to build a Saturn V despite haven't all the plan from a mere 50 years ago.

It is why contractors talk about a continuous drumbeat of production over decades rather than bursts.

And that is before you get into the sheer number of best and brightest the Wolves would have needed to relocate to act as overseers across a wide variety of projects. And we haven't begun talking about how to motivate the IS workers to perform and change their working cultures for a hostile invader.

It is an ugly ugly scenario for the Wolves.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 11 February 2019, 20:24:22
I mean, to take your Saturn V analogy, it's more like taking the plans and data to build Saturn V rockets, and taking a crew who builds Soyuz rockets, and re-training them to produce the new rocket. The Wolf Empire has plenty of factory employees to work with, they just have new projects for them.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 February 2019, 20:46:02

A well publicized recent example is the US's inability to build a Saturn V despite haven't all the plan from a mere 50 years ago.

It is an ugly ugly scenario for the Wolves.

Its not quite that . . . part of the problem is the Saturn V is using outdated tech (Space Cowboys got that right) and just like that 16" gun for the Iowa that was never replaced, there is nothing anywhere building the parts.  We no longer cast guns like that or to that size.  And so do not have the machines that make the machines involved in the casting.  Even the F-22 which recently (compared to the Saturn) shut down would take a while to get back to running because the assembly line has been re-tooled and the parts scattered/recycled.

IIRC, there is a study or figure bandied about that it takes 10 years to restart a shut down R&D program to return it to the level it was functioning at the time of shut down.  While the notes maybe written in English, the full meaning of what is on the page is not truly comprehended.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Jellico on 12 February 2019, 07:07:49
Okay. BattleTech example. 

The Federated Suns are the autocannon faction. Where does it say that? It is not in a rule book. It is institutional knowledge that the community noticed 30 years ago and has kept alive largely through word of mouth. That is the sort of thing that gets lost.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 February 2019, 11:28:01
But . . . you are talking about that timeframe having passed.  The Crusader Wolves started their invasion of League territory in 3138 with support personnel already en route behind them since they started moving them to the League-Commonwealth border while they feinted into Republic territory.  While they do start producing the two new Omnis, Warwolf & Wulfen- which uses some spin off IS tech on both (Reactive & Stealth) and are being built on one of the first worlds taken from the Commonwealth.  In fact the Warwolf has limited production b/c of converting a IS production line to Clan spec equipment- I think you have beaten Steve over the head with that information a time or two.

The Warwolf is actually a example you are looking for . . . the Wolves have problems by TRO3145 entry (7 years) getting production up to speed so that it becomes their prime heavy.  Nothing indicates that the Crusader Wolves are building any of their old secondline designs anywhere in the Empire- no Night Wolves, Tundra Wolves, Lobo, Sun Cobra, or anything.  But by TRO3150 (12 years FWL, 10 years for LC) IMO we have a logical move to equip the touman, put Clan spec weapons on IS designs they are already able to produce.  Any Orion 2Ms captured can be refit to the Orion C, salvaged Longinus can be improved to the C, and the same factories churning out the Clan spec weapons also make replacement weapons for any Clan mechs damaged.  While not full Clan spec it still gives the Wolf forces a slight qualitative advantage and something they can achieve without the problems they ran into with the Warwolf line.  Granted I would expect the bugs could have been worked out if the Crusader Wolves had not been constantly needing replacement equipment so its not like the whole thing can be shut down to rework the lines.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: SteveRestless on 12 February 2019, 15:09:48
Okay. BattleTech example. 

The Federated Suns are the autocannon faction. Where does it say that? It is not in a rule book.

My personal theory is that it comes from fluff text on the Enforcer in the BT CCG that spread memetically. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Enforcer_(ENF-4R)_(CCG_-_Unlimited) It's arguably not even true beyond 3025 era, and even the it's mostly the Centurion, Enforcer, Rifleman/Jagermech and Victor. Their custom succession wars era marauder even strips off the AC.

Well, the RAC comes back in and validates it a little, but I have to question whether the meme prompted that, or vice versa.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 February 2019, 15:13:54
Forgetting LACs?  AC special ammo?
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 February 2019, 17:00:51
When the Wolves turned against the Lyrans during Hammerfall Epsilon seized a lot of Lyran supply dumps and shipments that were for the forces involved in attacking the League worlds.  They got their pick of the equipment and I assume the rest went to the formation of the new freebirth garrison clusters.  The amount of the equipment was enough to help the frontline galaxies shuffle their vehicles off to the secondline & garrison galaxies.  But what Epsilon ended up with lowered their speed so much they were relegated to defensive roles since they could no longer perform in the typical cavalry style.

I would think its what was in production for Defiance and TharHes primarily with maybe some Coventry designs.  Using FM3145's RATs, if you were the galaxy commander, what would you keep and what would you pass on?  Note- I pulled the Clan designs since IMO those would not have been passed on.  Seriously, what Galaxy Commander or Star Colonel is going to pass on a Viking IIC, Hellstar or Savage Wolf?

Assaults-
King Crab -009
Sunder Omni
Atlas II
Fafnir 5X
Atlas S2
Zeus X4
Battlemaster 10S
Berzerker C3
Banshee 9S
Zeus 9T
Thunderhawk 7S
Emperor 6S
Highlander 738
Annihilator 4A

Heavy-
Scourge WD1, WF1
Mangonel 3W
Warhammer 10CT, 9S
Gotterdammerung 20S
Ursa 2A
Black Hawk KU Omni
Barghest 4T
Marauder 9W2
Defiance 3S
Archer 7S
Thanatos 6S
Gallant 7-0
Thunderbolt 17S
Axman 3S
Rifleman 7M

Mediums-
Mongoose II 267
Thunder Fox L8
Blitzkreig 4F
Gauntlet Omni
Nightsky 6T
Uziel 8S
Phoenix Hawk 7S
Starslayer 3Dr
Griffin 6S
Hatchetman 7S
Clint 6S
Hunchback 5S
Eisenfaust 7X
Vulcan 5Sr

Light-
Wolfhound 2H, 5
Arctic Fox Omni
Talon 6W
Havoc P6
Firestarter M2
Razirback 10S
Stiletto 6S
Scarabus 9T
Commando 7S
Ostscout 9S
Stinger 7S
Storm Raider R3
Dart 4S


Considering some of these, I would also have had them shipped to the sibkos for training tools.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Wrangler on 20 February 2019, 19:41:12
I'm curious how the dynamics (if the writers/developers wrote it down as bedrock of thing to come) leaving their workforce behind will have with the Empire? Could it usher deClanification of Wolves?  Not necessary rightaway but certainly making you a minority among people of Inner Sphere people.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 February 2019, 20:34:47
They took back some of the civilians, have to wonder about taking Clan enclaves on any Republic world (during the Prefecture IX &  VIII invasions), and welcomed in any Warden Wolves who came their way.  Alaric may be born of IS genes, but he seems to be taking a harder line than Magnusson.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Deadborder on 21 February 2019, 01:23:44
Honestly? If I was a Wolf Empire Galaxy Commander, I'd take whatever I could get. Many of their units are under-strength and with the combination of a permanent war footing and a shortage of Clantech designs, they're not in a position to be choosy. If I have holes in my unit, I want them filled ASAP so I'm operationally ready.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 February 2019, 01:34:38
Except Epsilon was not involved in Hammerfall, and it was what they took from the Lyran dumps that gave them a 'slow' rep.  They are not Zeta or the new freebirth clusters either so they were not hurting for equipment in the first place- just had vehicle trinaries.
Title: Re: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!
Post by: Phaedros on 11 March 2019, 10:52:23
Checking in and standing by after several months of being absent. Glory to the Empire! Victory for the Wolves!