BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Drewbacca on 08 September 2018, 07:27:53

Title: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Drewbacca on 08 September 2018, 07:27:53
I have to admit one of the reasons I still play mechs instead of infantry or vehicles ( other than my group keeps telling me I can't play mechs or vehicles) is I LOVE physicsm attacks. Either with a weapon or just a kick I love getting close and pummeling an enemy. It mademe wonder....


How many people out there are big users of physical attacks?
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Sir Chaos on 08 September 2018, 07:36:31
*raises hand*

Here! Me!

There are few things more satisfactory than leaving a trail of one-legged enemies in your wake.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Ruger on 08 September 2018, 08:21:13
Don't know that I really love physical attacks but they seem to love me...whether it be the time both I and my opponent tried kicks, both missed and then both of us failed our piloting checks to fall down ("I won't say a thing if you won't!"), or the time I got literally punched out of my cockpit by a double tap punch combo from a Banshee (GM ruled I needed boxcars to eject in time...and I rolled exactly what was needed)...

Of course there was another campaign where my Spider got behind a pristine Wolverine-6M...at the end of the round, thanks to a medium laser and two punches to the head, it was down...

And then in another game, I left an Axeman I had painted in dark green and black cameo hidden in some trees in 3D terrain, where my opponent lost track of it. He then proceeded to park an Emperor next to it and fired on another 'Mech...the physical portion of the round comes up and I call an attack...he asks with what? To which I respond (with a smile on my face as I remember), "The Axeman next to your Emperor." He looks more closely at the board and grimaces as he sees what I'm talking about...

 ;D

Ruger
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 08 September 2018, 09:06:06
Let's just say I got a Berserker and have used it a couple times instead of my usual Assault the Awesome in my Inner Sphere style games..... oh and the TSM version too!

Haven't gotten to pair it with my Hachetman or Nightsky yet which makes me sad but that's the availability of games where I am.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: DarkSpade on 08 September 2018, 09:37:08
I have a hatchetman I was fond of using for awhile.  I don't think I ever got in an attack with the hatchet. It's some great area denial since no one ever wants to get near it.  I finally pointed out that its damage was no better than a medium laser, but they kept on running away.  Was like watching a pack for German shepherds running away from a kitten.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Fear Factory on 08 September 2018, 12:05:15
The character I prefer is a skill 1 pilot, but he has average 4 gunnery. He pilots an ASN-21.

Prepare to be charged, kicked, and punched. It hurts.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 08 September 2018, 12:08:32
I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Fear Factory on 08 September 2018, 12:13:26
I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.

Yes, we've yet to do it, but plan on it. Tired of vehicles being, in some cases, better than 'Mechs.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: garhkal on 08 September 2018, 13:06:36
I love physical attacks, but feel the PS skill difference between target and attacker, should apply to more than the ones it does..  I also feel the quad's PSR bonus for having all legs, should also kick in on physicals...
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: sadlerbw on 08 September 2018, 13:11:01
Give me a Charger 1A1 and I'll be like...

(https://i.imgur.com/Y29tqc1.gif)

Heck, half the reason I liked the FRR so much was the fluff saying they liked physical attacks. Also, the most teeth-grindingly difficult part, for me, about playing clan forces with zell is being unable to physically pummel your opponents. It drives me nuts! Even though Axes are ovjectively not that great, I still love them. Heck, I like melee enough that I still take mechs with axes, even when they are tiny little ones like the Scarabus! I'm not crazy enough to use (EDIT: Flails!, I meant flails!) though. The risk of an own-goal headshot is too much, even for me.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Scotty on 08 September 2018, 13:15:20
The risk of an own-goal headshot is too much, even for me.

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Caedis Animus on 08 September 2018, 13:16:55
What are you talking about?
I think he may have confused the Mace with the Flail?

Speaking of the Flail. I was always irritated that having TSM doesn't affect it; I mean, I'd imagine swinging a heavy metal object EVEN FASTER to the degree of doing more damage with it would be possible with something that makes the fists of an Atlas more akin to AC/20s than fists. Hell, even making it more accurate would work for me.

Edit; According to Sarna, even the freaking backhoe is affected by TSM, while the Wrecking ball and Mace are not. That's just sad.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Sartris on 08 September 2018, 13:28:36
I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.

Wait what now?

Intriguing
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Frabby on 08 September 2018, 15:32:09
I used to be a standoff fighter - my personal 'Mech was an Archer. But in recent years, playing mostly pickup games on standard mapsheets (as opposed to custom terrain) I've switched to aggressive in-your-face tactics with typically medium 'Mechs, and do physical attacks a lot, mostly kicks. Most BT maps just aren't good for long range sniping.
However, I have a strong dislike for physical weapons like hatchets. I can't quite put a finger on it, they somehow feel silly whereas tree trunks and T-beams are fine.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Colonial13 on 08 September 2018, 15:36:58
I love them.  Best physical attack I’ve ever seen was a Grasshopper punching a Hunchback that already had an engine hit.  Grasshopper’s punch goes through the center torso armor, double crits, both roll up as engine hits.  It was the Battletech equivalent of the beating heart out of the chest scene from Temple of Doom.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: guardiandashi on 08 September 2018, 16:48:30
actually was playing with my friends the other day, and we were in 3025ish, on solaris IV (reaches) and it was a somewhat odd fight.

the "friendly" team was marauder MAD-3R (NPC), Wasp (stock with srm 2) one of my friends,4p/4g(natural aptitude gunnery) I had a shadowhawk, 4p/4g and natural aptitude piloting,  and my other friend had a panther 2p 3g, and essentially a scrounging skill.

we were up against an atlas, and good news for us, the atlas pilot suffered from poor tactics and got fixated on trying to take out the marauder to the point that he more or less ignored the rest of us, I got in behind the atlas and punched it repeatedly , and got 2 head hits with punches of course in the process... we stripped the center torso rear armor, and caused critical damage to a medium laser, and the engine and gyro I think.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: sadlerbw on 08 September 2018, 17:07:14
I think he may have confused the Mace with the Flail?

Yes, said the wrong thing. Went back and edited my post. I can’t brain today!

Anyway, I tend to charge and DFA a lot more in Alpha Strike than I ever did in TW. I think it’s because your Opponent doesn’t get a chance to blow you up before the hit has a chance to land. In AS, since physical and weapon attacks all happen at the same time, my firey wreckage still has a chance to slam in to you, even if you blow my mech up!
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Firesprocket on 09 September 2018, 00:45:58
Let's just say I got a Berserker and have used it a couple times instead of my usual Assault the Awesome
I did this recently.  I was all jacked and decided to go all in.  I hit MASC, rolled a 3 to avoid lock up, turned on pavement, rolled a 2 for a skid check, and then rolled a 2 again to stay standing and hit the ground.   Rolled a head shot on the fall.  I stayed conscious after my two hex skid successfully behind a building with nothing look back at me.  Had I made that skid check I'd have found myself smack dab next to an SRM carrier hidden in the wood next to hex where I planned to move.

Say 6 months ago I decided to run an Ostol 8M.  Nice little machine if you plan heat accordingly.  Finally got it set up where I could run in and get a double punch off on someone.  Sadly, despite a +4 modifier running into melee got gunned down before I could get off punches.

Melee is can be down right nice if you can time it right and you get solid satisfaction if you do something awesome like DFA someone or set up a minefield behind someone and then push them into it.  On the whole though I don't plan often on melee as a offense first option.  It's high risk with a high reward for me that very rarely pays off.

That said I have this dumb plan to take a Kuma 3 one of these days with a pilot skill 0 just so I can run around the board trying to DFA people as something other than desperation.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: RoundTop on 09 September 2018, 01:54:59
I love em.

Especially physical weapons. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end, and it allows you to drive mechs where you want them
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Jellico on 09 September 2018, 05:59:06
I have never once used a physical attack at a table. Though I have thought about throwing my dice at another player.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Cyc on 09 September 2018, 06:47:22
It's weird. You use a TSM equipped Atlas to kick off somebody's pristine leg just once and people refuse to close with me whenever I play Atlases.

I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.

So much about the physical attacks in the game to love, but the simple pleasure of easily pancaking vehicles is hard to trump.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Drewbacca on 09 September 2018, 09:59:39
I love them.  Best physical attack I’ve ever seen was a Grasshopper punching a Hunchback that already had an engine hit.  Grasshopper’s punch goes through the center torso armor, double crits, both roll up as engine hits.  It was the Battletech equivalent of the beating heart out of the chest scene from Temple of Doom.

My luckiest physical attack to date was a kick from a level 1 hill against a level 0 opponent that did not get through the CT armor but got a TAC that did three crits, all engines.

Pushing a unit off a hill, or better off a mapnä edge is always fun.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: DarkSpade on 09 September 2018, 10:42:04
I have a friend that almost never succeed his skid checks, but that never stopped him from trying.  When it came time to see how far off course he went, he'd always roll high and end up crashing into something.  His hover tank would end up in the woods, his mech with the unarmored leg would end up in the river, etc.  By far the most common result was him crashing straight into another mech with.  This would be a great tactic for getting a mech into melee, but there was one problem with this "plan".  He always ended up charging his own units.  Really effective otherwise.

Haven't played CBT with him in awhile.  I wonder if this is still happening to him.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Minemech on 09 September 2018, 11:38:51
 Physical attacks are simply part of exploiting the whole battlefield, their use needs to be thought out, but the option can be quite the variable in the battle.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Fear Factory on 09 September 2018, 11:44:58
If I had to pick a problem with physical attacks, it would have to be how easy it is to perform a kick over a punch. Yes, I know if you miss a kick you can fall, but the amount of damage done with a single kick is pretty significant. I know the punch has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting the head, but the kick has a much better payoff because you can consistently hit a leg location. You can flank a target from the right or left to pick a leg.

This could probably be solved by making kicks, pushes, clubbing, and punches a -1 difficulty modifier across the board. To make kicks less risky a -1 for the PSR could help, but I think they would be fine. The payoff, as the game stands, is well worth it. A little more risk would keep the game from becoming a slugfest.

Also, maybe even expanding the difference in piloting skills between the attacker and defender to all physical attacks.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 09 September 2018, 12:01:40
It always feels silly to me to resort to melee in a fusion powered 'mech armed with PPCs and pulse lasers. The battlefield of 31st century is no place for rock'em sock'em robots! But if I'm forced to resort to such barbaric tactics, I want a Hatchet and jumpjets so I can do it with style!
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 09 September 2018, 16:16:31
I love physical attacks, make them every chance I get.

My favorite was one time I was running a BRZ-C3.  Just got it up to 9 heat, then smacked someone in the arm with my hatchet.  I ended up rolling two crits to the center torso and ripped out their gyro.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Col Toda on 10 September 2018, 09:04:35
In most ERA most units rarely get a chance to do it . Custom jobs with Stealth armor or TSM and a Super Charger doing the 2 punch combo on someone's rear armor can ruin their whole day . Do not think it worth it . Having a fast melee medic and an immobile target by TSEMP shot revived the tactic somewhat
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: mbear on 10 September 2018, 09:20:03
The battlefield of 31st century is no place for rock'em sock'em robots!

Solaris VII begs to differ. So do I. The "punching out your opponent's engine" listed before is one of the most impressive parts of the game. And as for kicks being easier, than punching, well, I don't know what to say to that except maybe invent rules for blocking kicks? Reducing kick damage? But discuss them in Fan Rules so the mods don't get angry.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Kovax on 10 September 2018, 10:09:19
If I had to pick a problem with physical attacks, it would have to be how easy it is to perform a kick over a punch. Yes, I know if you miss a kick you can fall, but the amount of damage done with a single kick is pretty significant. I know the punch has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting the head, but the kick has a much better payoff because you can consistently hit a leg location. You can flank a target from the right or left to pick a leg.

Remember that you get 2 punches, but only one kick.  The -1 ease of attacking is offset by the risk of falling if you miss.  Yes, you can pick a leg, but it takes a lot more damage to take off a leg than to breach the head armor.  The punch still allows you to target back locations from behind the target, particularly after you've created holes in the weapons phase, where the kicker still has to go after a leg.  I find kicks MARGINALLY more effective than punches, but if the to-hit modifiers were the same, I'd lean toward punching in most situations.

I generally prefer low piloting skills over low gunnery on some lighter 'Mechs, because their actual firepower is limited, but they can kick to inflict piloting rolls as well as do some damage.  I recall taking out one Atlas with pilot injuries almost entirely from failed "seat belt checks" (with the aid of a 2 point MG hit to the head) inflicted by a Locust while the Atlas was preoccupied with shooting at more threatening targets.  Once the tonnage of the attacker gets higher, the effectiveness of punches to the head starts to take precedence.

Probably the most effective physical attack I ever landed, back in the dim and distant past, was a push: knocking a lightly damaged Assault 'Mech off a 2 level cliff into water.  Granted, the fall damage wasn't spectacular, but the head failed its breach test.  One drowned pilot.  Unfortunately, the simultaneous return kick ripped the leg and torso side off my poor Light 'Mech (It was either a Wasp or a Stinger) that dared to push the Assault.  I'll gladly make that trade again.

Then again, I've been in one game where a Clan assault failed its piloting roll to cross a small stream, fell face first, and breached the cockpit on the opening round of the game before anything was even in firing range.  Physical attacks, falls, or other non-weapon damage can play a big part in a game, and I often consider how to best utilize the terrain to exploit that (such as high cliffs, water, etc.), rather than heading for a nice patch of woods or partial cover to trade fire in a session of TurretTech(r).
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 10 September 2018, 10:19:48
One of my favorite 'updates' to the way of the world in the Dark Age is that at least some Clan warriors aren't feeling so squeamish about physical attacks anymore. The Eyrie and Jade Hawk are excellent examples showing that the Jade Falcons, at least, are pretty cool with beating the stupid out of their opponent- and I dig that.

The Solaris diorama at Gencon several years ago featured a Thor with a ForestryMech's chainsaw in its arm, and I'd love to see more omni configs with that kind of gear. (Show of hands, who would love to see an Executioner with a giant freaking axe in its hand? Yeah, it's not the most useful weapon in-game, but in terms of looks?)
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Drewbacca on 10 September 2018, 10:43:28
(Show of hands, who would love to see an Executioner with a giant freaking axe in its hand? Yeah, it's not the most useful weapon in-game, but in terms of looks?)

Hell yeah.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Demon55 on 10 September 2018, 11:46:58
It always feels silly to me to resort to melee in a fusion powered 'mech armed with PPCs and pulse lasers. The battlefield of 31st century is no place for rock'em sock'em robots! But if I'm forced to resort to such barbaric tactics, I want a Hatchet and jumpjets so I can do it with style!

Yes.  I use them when needed but the tonnage for melee weapons is better spent.  Physical attacks give you another chance to do damage and can be worth it.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 10 September 2018, 12:41:37
Kicks get a -2 on the attack modifier, not -1.  Also, the PSR to avoid falling after missing with a kick is at a 0 modifier.  In my experience it's really unusual to actually fall over after missing with a kick unless you've got a really bad modified piloting check (say, due to leg or gyro damage) and at that point it's not usually worth it.

And, of course, you can only make a melee attack if you didn't fire any weapons in that limb and since most mechs have arm-mounted weaponry that means kicking is almost always going to result in greater total damage vs punching and having to avoid using a few guns.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 10 September 2018, 13:35:08
Kicks get a -2 on the attack modifier, not -1.  Also, the PSR to avoid falling after missing with a kick is at a 0 modifier.  In my experience it's really unusual to actually fall over after missing with a kick unless you've got a really bad modified piloting check (say, due to leg or gyro damage) and at that point it's not usually worth it.

And, of course, you can only make a melee attack if you didn't fire any weapons in that limb and since most mechs have arm-mounted weaponry that means kicking is almost always going to result in greater total damage vs punching and having to avoid using a few guns.

HI THERE! I'll have to cordially disagree, because falling on my ass after missing a kick is one of my superpowers. No idea what it is about it- I mean usually I'll hit on a kick, because that -2 is pretty handy, but if I need a 5 and roll a 3, it's almost guaranteed I'll be on my ass to start the next turn. Just kind of how it is- it SHOULDN'T mathematically work out that way often, and yet...
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: guardiandashi on 10 September 2018, 13:54:22
HI THERE! I'll have to cordially disagree, because falling on my ass after missing a kick is one of my superpowers. No idea what it is about it- I mean usually I'll hit on a kick, because that -2 is pretty handy, but if I need a 5 and roll a 3, it's almost guaranteed I'll be on my ass to start the next turn. Just kind of how it is- it SHOULDN'T mathematically work out that way often, and yet...
hellbie it could always be worse.
my friend was telling about this person in his star wars group (they are playing WEG d6 star wars) and apparently he swaps out his dice regularly, but his luck is so bad that he was shooting someone with a blaster using 12D blaster skill, plus a scope, (for an extra 1D) so 13D6 for the check, he only needed a 15 or 16 to hit, ... he missed.
rolling 7d6 he got a 9 total.
rolling a D&D 3d6 x6(str, dex, con, int, wis, and cha) array of stats his highest stat was a 7
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: sadlerbw on 10 September 2018, 14:17:21
I play the Pathfinder adventure card game on my iPad quite a bit (played it IRL with my gaming group as well.) The app will show you your percentage chance for success, but in my experience, anything less than 90% means I'm going to miss  xp My real life experience has largely mirrored this.

Anyway, I will admit that melee weapons are not an optimal, or even particularly effective, use of tonnage...but I still like them. In fact, one of the things that really bugs me are mechs with 'claws' in the art that don't actually mount claws! I mean, claws were a thing when the Kodiak II and the Cave Lion came out, but do them actually mount them? Nope. Just the 'battle fists' quirk. Grrrr! I probably kick more than anything else, but once you get up to around 60 tons with TSM, I become a bigger fan of punching. Being able to knock a mech's head clean off, even if it isn't super likely, it just good, wholesome fun! TSM kicks can be hideous as well. If your mech is big enough, you can force the PSR for being kicked AND a PSR for doing 20+ damage in a turn, all in one hit.

Oh, and the TSM Berserker? Oh...oh my sweet baby, how I love thee! People talk about the AC/20 on the Hunchback being an area denial weapon. A TSM Berserker turns that up to 11. Even the bot in MegaMek knows to stay the hell away from one of these.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: guardiandashi on 10 September 2018, 14:54:34
the most evil melee monster I ever built, was in the tactical handbook era, it was a 100 tonner with TSM, a claw melee weapon on 1 arm, and a MACE on the other, the tactic was to run up and claw and grapple with the claw, if successful the next turn it bashed them with the mace.  I don't care what you are piloting a 60 point mace hit is pretty much guaranteed to remove at least 1 location.
I want to say the worst hit was on an assault mech that had lost some armor previously, and the mace hit took out the arm, the side torso, and damaged the center torso, in 1 solid hit.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: garhkal on 10 September 2018, 16:39:15
Remember that you get 2 punches, but only one kick.  The -1 ease of attacking is offset by the risk of falling if you miss.  Yes, you can pick a leg, but it takes a lot more damage to take off a leg than to breach the head armor.  The punch still allows you to target back locations from behind the target, particularly after you've created holes in the weapons phase, where the kicker still has to go after a leg.  I find kicks MARGINALLY more effective than punches, but if the to-hit modifiers were the same, I'd lean toward punching in most situations.

But if a kick's doing double the damage of a punch, the 'legs are more armored' aspect is a wash.  Especially when you take "if you kick the target IT needs a PSR" into account.  So i also agree, kicks are a lot more used than punches..

Quote
And, of course, you can only make a melee attack if you didn't fire any weapons in that limb and since most mechs have arm-mounted weaponry that means kicking is almost always going to result in greater total damage vs punching and having to avoid using a few guns.

That's why if you are Making the mech, don't build it with weapons in that arm!
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Crimson Dawn on 10 September 2018, 16:52:45
Hmm I assumed that kicks were used more often because legs tend to have weapons relatively rarely but they are very common on the arms and since you cannot fire them if you punch you lose out on those weapons when punching but that is rarely a problem with a kick.  I would think that mechs that had their long range weapons in the arms and close range in the torsos would be better able to take advantage of the punches especially if it is a mech with battlefists.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Elmoth on 10 September 2018, 16:55:40
I am waiting for a jumpjet armed mech with a double handed warhammer with srm on the head that fire on impact before I go after physical attacks.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: sadlerbw on 10 September 2018, 18:07:29
Anyone ever use the Chain Whip? I know they are fairly new and rare, and I've never had the occasion to use one myself. Oddly, I haven't really used many of the 'new' melee weapons all that much. Stuff like Lances and Talons and Chain Whips, I've barely used, if at all. What I have used has been in Alpha Strike games, where it all just turns into the MEL special, so I've got no idea how good or bad some of this stuff is in TW land.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Daryk on 10 September 2018, 18:28:32
Kovax has the right of it in at least one aspect: if kicks and punches had the same to-hit modifier, I'd punch far more often than I kick.  Kicks would be reserved for damaged enemy legs that I'd be likely to remove.  Jade's experience is too close to mine for comfort, but I haven't had quite that bad luck, so I'm still willing to risk kicking with the relative bonus.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Scotty on 10 September 2018, 20:47:32
Anyone ever use the Chain Whip? I know they are fairly new and rare, and I've never had the occasion to use one myself. Oddly, I haven't really used many of the 'new' melee weapons all that much. Stuff like Lances and Talons and Chain Whips, I've barely used, if at all. What I have used has been in Alpha Strike games, where it all just turns into the MEL special, so I've got no idea how good or bad some of this stuff is in TW land.

Chain Whips are really great for big bruisers with lots of short range weapons that can maneuver into a one-on-one fight.  If you hit a leg, you can force a PSR, if you hit an arm you can attempt to grapple.  If you grapple you have to not move next turn or the grapple ends.  The Chain Whip does three damage to the location it hits.  It weighs 3 tons and takes two crits.

Chain Whips are practically useless in every other circumstance.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 10 September 2018, 21:33:49
And IIRC, the only canon design that packs a Chain Whip is the Dasher II 4.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: SteelRaven on 10 September 2018, 21:40:19
And IIRC, the only canon design that packs a Chain Whip is the Dasher II 4.

The Trebuchet TBT-XK7/TBT-K7R and Templar III B also carry Chain Whips
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: StoneRhino on 11 September 2018, 02:33:01
I like a good kick into the opposing side, but unless they screwed up and advanced to hard I consider using physical attacks to be a sign that I failed. Unless the unit has a hatchet, if I am using physical attacks then I messed up somewhere and either pushed to hard or allowed the other side to advance unchecked. Yes, there are times where its a sign that I am doing better then expected, but thats typically when I'm kicking a sniper style unit while his friends are stuck fighting with my other units and cannot fall back and support him without being steamrolled.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Azakael on 11 September 2018, 15:54:15
I love physical attacks. The other guy I play with and I tend to get up close and personal quickly and often. So kicks are the name of the game.
Except when something as glorious as our last campaign session. The mission was Wave of Confusion. There was quite a bit of rushing water... My friend happened to have stacked several of his mechs in this beautiful, nearly perfect conga line. One push. Several mechs fall... one into the river.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Akira213 on 12 September 2018, 14:04:57
One of the first things I tell my padawans is: Don't cuddle with an enemy assault mech when you're not sitting in one yourself !
They normally get pretty fast why ;)
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Dapper Apples on 13 September 2018, 14:40:32
I learned about BT from the mechwarrior games, where physical attacks don't really exist, so I always found them a bit curious.

Part of me wants to make a custom 20 tonner with TSM and an axe and just have a lance or two of them swarm something and hack it down.  Probably wouldn't work out well, but it'd be fun to watch.  :D
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Sir Chaos on 13 September 2018, 14:55:36
I learned about BT from the mechwarrior games, where physical attacks don't really exist, so I always found them a bit curious.

Part of me wants to make a custom 20 tonner with TSM and an axe and just have a lance or two of them swarm something and hack it down.  Probably wouldn't work out well, but it'd be fun to watch.  :D

Call that lance "The Four Dwarves" - Slashey, Smashey, Slicey and Dicey. :D
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: garhkal on 13 September 2018, 14:58:07
30 tons is the lightest i go for hatchet wielders..  Usually i stay around 45 or 60 tons.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Elmoth on 13 September 2018, 16:03:30
I can see hatchet LAM mechs.... hmm.... Aerial kicks with blades in the heels?
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Sartris on 13 September 2018, 16:30:26
I learned about BT from the mechwarrior games, where physical attacks don't really exist, so I always found them a bit curious.

Part of me wants to make a custom 20 tonner with TSM and an axe and just have a lance or two of them swarm something and hack it down.  Probably wouldn't work out well, but it'd be fun to watch.  :D

If you’re not doing something wildly inadvisable at least once a game why are you even playing?
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: jklantern on 13 September 2018, 17:03:32
One of my favorite 'updates' to the way of the world in the Dark Age is that at least some Clan warriors aren't feeling so squeamish about physical attacks anymore. The Eyrie and Jade Hawk are excellent examples showing that the Jade Falcons, at least, are pretty cool with beating the stupid out of their opponent- and I dig that.

The Solaris diorama at Gencon several years ago featured a Thor with a ForestryMech's chainsaw in its arm, and I'd love to see more omni configs with that kind of gear. (Show of hands, who would love to see an Executioner with a giant freaking axe in its hand? Yeah, it's not the most useful weapon in-game, but in terms of looks?)


HELLBIE, WHY MUST YOU ALWAYS TRY TO GET ME TO FALL IN LOVE WITH THE FALCONS?  *Loud Sob*
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 13 September 2018, 17:45:59
You know the Ghost Bears have been doing that for decades before the Falcons started.  They've even got an entire Galaxy who's unit ability is "you may customize your omnimech to mount a melee weapon, obeying the normal design rules."
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Diamondshark on 13 September 2018, 19:06:41
And then in another game, I left an Axeman I had painted in dark green and black cameo hidden in some trees in 3D terrain, where my opponent lost track of it. He then proceeded to park an Emperor next to it and fired on another 'Mech...the physical portion of the round comes up and I call an attack...he asks with what? To which I respond (with a smile on my face as I remember), "The Axeman next to your Emperor." He looks more closely at the board and grimaces as he sees what I'm talking about...

That may be the most beautiful thing I've ever read on here.  :clap:

Give me a Charger 1A1 and I'll be like...

(https://i.imgur.com/Y29tqc1.gif)

The Charger is easily one of my favorite SW mechs; treat it like a kick-delivery system and ignore any damage that doesn't prevent said kicking and it will do wonders. I was in a battle once where my Charger with almost none of its armor left and missing an arm; it proceeded to spot, cross the map to engage, and kick to death a pristine Annihilator. Come to think of it, no matter how psycho I get with Chargers, I've only ever lost one, and that was when two whole lances targeted it at once.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: garhkal on 14 September 2018, 01:22:20
One question i had a new player ask was, why you can't do a DFA like jumping Punch maneuver, similar to MMA's Superman punches..
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 14 September 2018, 01:51:32
If you use jumping movement and make a punch attack, you can say that you are doing that, but adding a whole new combat maneuver wouldn't make much sense: mechs are not that fast or flexible, this isn't a Super Robot anime where the mechs can bounce around changing directions and twisting and turning like they each weigh no more than 100 lbs.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 14 September 2018, 03:02:12
Think "tanks with legs" for the Battletech aesthetic.  Abrams tanks that stand up on their arse ends and slapfight at each other when they get too close is a much better visual.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: mbear on 14 September 2018, 07:53:22
I can see hatchet LAM mechs.... hmm.... Aerial kicks with blades in the heels?

Check out the Talons in Tactical Operations.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Drewbacca on 14 September 2018, 09:29:05
I'd like to change tracks here a bit. If you were assembling a 3030s merc unit and you wanted to go heavy with physical attacks, what would you choose. I would think the mechs would have to be fairly mobile with a good amount of armor on them, firepower being perhaps a secondary concern.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Diamondshark on 14 September 2018, 10:41:22
I'd like to change tracks here a bit. If you were assembling a 3030s merc unit and you wanted to go heavy with physical attacks, what would you choose. I would think the mechs would have to be fairly mobile with a good amount of armor on them, firepower being perhaps a secondary concern.

That is good, also make sure as many weapons as possible are torso-mounted. Arm-mounts are also acceptable, but only if you don't care about punching/pushing/clubbing.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: ravensword on 14 September 2018, 10:43:45
I'd like to change tracks here a bit. If you were assembling a 3030s merc unit and you wanted to go heavy with physical attacks, what would you choose. I would think the mechs would have to be fairly mobile with a good amount of armor on them, firepower being perhaps a secondary concern.

Banshees, Grasshoppers, maybe Archers.  Osts if you don't care about punching.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Drewbacca on 14 September 2018, 10:50:11
Can punch freely with both arms on a Ostie until they get blown off. :) And that 8-move charge on a sixty-tonner is nice too. Thanks.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 14 September 2018, 11:09:43
I'd like to change tracks here a bit. If you were assembling a 3030s merc unit and you wanted to go heavy with physical attacks, what would you choose. I would think the mechs would have to be fairly mobile with a good amount of armor on them, firepower being perhaps a secondary concern.

There's only one real answer to that question: Grasshoppers.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: sadlerbw on 16 September 2018, 17:05:45
Banshees, Chargers, 60T Ost-series mechs are all great. Can’t argue with the Grasshopper either. Javelin is decent for a light, since it tends to survive just a bit longer than something like a Spider. It isn’t light, but an Assassin can fill the same role. You want stuff with ALL the arm and hand actuators if you intend to punch a lot. As mentioned, torso weapons are also helpful since you can fire them and still punch.

Oddly, the Marauder and Warhammer aren’t too bad as you may not care to use the PPCs at close range anyway, and they are only missing hand actuators. For slightly less optimal choices, the Goliath can be fun if you can deal with a quadmech. Of course, the Atlas is always scary if you can manage to get close with it. The BattleMaster is also decent for an assault doing physical attacks, and it wants to get close anyway. I like it better than the 80-tonners anyway.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Sartris on 16 September 2018, 17:51:30
I ran a lance of two BNC-3Qs and two BNC-3Ms in a 6k game once. There were a lot of shattered legs that day.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: mbear on 17 September 2018, 08:02:08
Banshees, Chargers, 60T Ost-series mechs are all great. Can’t argue with the Grasshopper either. Javelin is decent for a light, since it tends to survive just a bit longer than something like a Spider. It isn’t light, but an Assassin can fill the same role. You want stuff with ALL the arm and hand actuators if you intend to punch a lot. As mentioned, torso weapons are also helpful since you can fire them and still punch.

Chargers are even better if you allow hand held weapons rules. Pack in a bunch of missile launchers and you've got an 80 ton Javelin.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 17 September 2018, 12:32:47
Chargers can't use hand-held weapons: they only have one hand.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: mbear on 18 September 2018, 06:55:57
Chargers can't use hand-held weapons: they only have one hand.

CURSE YOU OGRE FOR DESTROYING MY DREAMS!!!!
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Daryk on 18 September 2018, 16:43:06
Sounds like a job for a tech...  How hard could it be to install an actuator the darn thing should have had all along?
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Fear Factory on 18 September 2018, 17:01:31
Slugger SPA solves the problem.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 September 2018, 18:01:05
Sounds like a job for a tech...  How hard could it be to install an actuator the darn thing should have had all along?

Well, you see, there's this issue due to Star League specifications that basically mean the mech isn't compatible with the software needed to have a left hand...

Seriously, though, the fact that it never had one has never made sense.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Sartris on 18 September 2018, 18:24:24
Well, you see, there's this issue due to Star League specifications that basically mean the mech isn't compatible with the software needed to have a left hand...

Seriously, though, the fact that it never had one has never made sense.

it's very important that SL in the arm wasn't obstructed?

the lunacy even carries over to variants like the 1A5 that don't have any weapons in the arms at all
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Fear Factory on 18 September 2018, 22:51:56
Check out the Talons in Tactical Operations.

Too bad LAM's are nerfed so bad you can barely arm them.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: garhkal on 19 September 2018, 01:44:16
it's very important that SL in the arm wasn't obstructed?

the lunacy even carries over to variants like the 1A5 that don't have any weapons in the arms at all

Some times the art i see for the charger, make it seem like having a weapon in that arm (say a mace head) was the intent for why they left the hand off...
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Frabby on 19 September 2018, 02:14:03
Sounds like a job for a tech...  How hard could it be to install an actuator the darn thing should have had all along?
Not trivial, I'd say. After all, it means hand-crafting equipment that never existed before. You're not fixing something here, you're designing something entirely new from scratch. Even when considering the other arm and assuming there is no significant internal difference, it's still mirror reversed and you cannot use any of the parts.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Daryk on 19 September 2018, 04:31:45
I was thinking more along the lines of using some other 80 ton 'mech's left hand...
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Elmoth on 19 September 2018, 05:39:39
I would say that would not work very well. Balances betweeen the systems, the controls you need ot wire to the neurohelmet and the control console for the mech et al might be quite a daunting task. Or not. Depends on what tyoui decide here. Sometimes we see designs (and forum discussions) that put a huge emphasis on how something is not possible, andf then in the next thing tyou read people has swapped the internal engine, added jump jets and changed 5 weapons on a mech in an afternoon. So up to how hard you want to make it, really. Ypu camn justify either easily :)
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 19 September 2018, 09:56:07
Oddly, the Marauder and Warhammer aren’t too bad as you may not care to use the PPCs at close range anyway, and they are only missing hand actuators.

With leg armor like those two, I'd keep my distance.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: sadlerbw on 19 September 2018, 16:37:26
I’m not saying you would WANT to melee with the Marauder or Warhammer, but they make good choices for fire support for a melee-loving company. I like them for fire support that has the option to kick or punch if needed. At least, I prefer them to the Catapult, Crusader, or Archer. The Catapult is missing too much in the arm dept., the Crusader usually has better things to do with its arms and legs, and the Archer...well, I guess I just like direct fire support better than indirect! The Awesome sort of falls into the same category for me: it is really a fire support unit, but if called on to melee it is pretty good at it.

So, even a punch-loving company will need some recon and fire support, and I think the Warhammer and Marauder would fit in that slot nicely. Better than most other options in the era anyway.
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Easy on 19 September 2018, 17:30:03
cleanup
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Easy on 19 September 2018, 17:46:19
cleanup
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: mbear on 20 September 2018, 07:25:35
Too bad LAM's are nerfed so bad you can barely arm them.

Right. That's why it's a good thing talons are leg mounted. ;)
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Diamondshark on 30 September 2018, 10:16:08
Right. That's why it's a good thing talons are leg mounted. ;)

Ooh, I need to go tinker with this for a while...
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: Simon Landmine on 30 September 2018, 20:04:24
I’m not saying you would WANT to melee with the Marauder or Warhammer, but they make good choices for fire support for a melee-loving company. I like them for fire support that has the option to kick or punch if needed. At least, I prefer them to the Catapult, Crusader, or Archer. The Catapult is missing too much in the arm dept., the Crusader usually has better things to do with its arms and legs, and the Archer...well, I guess I just like direct fire support better than indirect!

I've had fun with Archers that have dealt with the enemy getting too close by going melee on them. One really went to town on a Warhammer (it had avoided getting taken out by direct fire up to that point by hiding behind a building and applying indirect spam to the opposition). Predictably, the 'hammer got legged in the game of 70-ton shin-kicking.

(Although I will admit that while the Archer's arm-mounted lasers are handy for dealing with flankers, they're very frustrating when it comes to melee!)
Title: Re: Physical attacks and you...
Post by: mbear on 01 October 2018, 09:30:53
I've had fun with Archers that have dealt with the enemy getting too close by going melee on them. One really went to town on a Warhammer (it had avoided getting taken out by direct fire up to that point by hiding behind a building and applying indirect spam to the opposition). Predictably, the 'hammer got legged in the game of 70-ton shin-kicking.

(Although I will admit that while the Archer's arm-mounted lasers are handy for dealing with flankers, they're very frustrating when it comes to melee!)

FWLIW, I used to run a modified Archer with SRMs instead of LRMs. Was one hell of an infighter.