BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Game Systems => Ground Combat => Topic started by: Hellraiser on 13 October 2018, 20:36:52

Title: Good Demo Force
Post by: Hellraiser on 13 October 2018, 20:36:52
So a friend of mine hasn't played since the early 90's & I'm looking to set up some demo fights.

What do you all think of the following forces for a couple of Demos to get the feel back.

Both use L1/Intro tech & minis from the basic boxed sets of the last decade.


Fight-1  Single Mechs

1024   Vindicator-1R
v/s
1032   Enforcer-4R



Fight #2  -  Lance on Lance


Lance-1
1605   Awesome-8Q               
1399   Catapult-C1               
1024   Vindicator-1R               
875   Jenner-7D               

4903   Total BV               



Lance #2
1751   Banshee-3S
1427   GrassHopper-5H
1032   Enforcer-4R
622   Spider-5V

4832   Total BV



What do you all think?

Solid choices to showcase the sizes of mechs, speeds, & weaponry?
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: skiltao on 14 October 2018, 12:27:23
Vindicator vs Enforcer seems like a classic duel.

Your lance game would be played to a time limit rather than full destruction of the enemy force, right? Barring lucky hits, I don't see the Spider, Banshee or Awesome dying before the game's up.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Empyrus on 14 October 2018, 13:05:12
I'd opt for not too tough designs with more firepower than sense 'Mechs, in medium to heavy range with not too much speed. This would teach tactical importance of cover and partial covert to mitigate damage yet limited speed of medium to heavy designs means they're relatively easy to hit. Thin armor and a lot of firepower means quick deaths. A lot of firepower highlights importance of heat management, and hopefully thin armor makes pushing heat high attractive.

Pity the intro box has no Marauder and Warhammer, they'd be quite ideal here.

Catapult C1, Orion V (the one that trades armor for another SRM), JagerMech (LRM variant offers a bit more firepower), Zeus (perhaps the PPC variant), Cyclops all have thin armor but relatively high firepower with middling speed. For something faster, the Dragon and Quickdraw are reasonable as they have weak armor (Grand Dragon for extra firepower might be good but it is considerably more valuable than the Quickdraw). Throw in the Enforcer and Vindicator or perhaps Trebuchet and Dervish.

I get the idea of showcasing speed and extreme durability along with other stuff, but i'm not sure they're particularly enjoyable at first. Speed may be difficult to utilize for a newbie, but also difficult to deal with for a newbie. Awesome etc. just tend to become turrets, which isn't particularly interesting.


For starter duel, the Enforcer vs Vindicator is good definitively, though i think the Enforcer has slight advantage as once it is at medium range, it has higher damage output, the Vindy needs to keep its distance to stay on top of the fight.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Daryk on 14 October 2018, 18:09:47
The 1v1 is ideal, but I think the lance battle shows the shortcomings of the BV system.  My money would be on the second lance any day of the week, the BV deficit (and my personal preference for Awesomes) notwithstanding.  The Steiner Banshee is a beast, and a Grasshopper will own any given Catapult on anything other than an open plain.  Down at the lower end, I think the Jenner and Spider are more evenly matched than reflected by BV.  Jumping for +4 in an era without pulse lasers is worth quite a bit (unless, of course, you're playing with 0 gunners).
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Firesprocket on 14 October 2018, 22:38:48
IMO, there is too much jumping contained in those groupings and group 1 has large LRMs and the other force has 2 small launchers.   The 70 point BV difference between the two units appear to tip the scale in group 1s favor.

Very little choices also have to be made for heat management which depending on what you are aiming for could be good or bad.

The Vindy vs Enforcer straight up makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: truetanker on 14 October 2018, 22:49:46
They use Panther vs. Jenner at the Boot Camp during Gencon.

Both have jump, a solid armor and or weapon load... also the standard wooded map was used.

For Lance, why not a classic Davion / Kurita fight, circa 3049 4th SW?

Hachetman - Hachetman fight anyone?

TT
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Fat Guy on 15 October 2018, 15:18:29
Try these out. As an added bonus, they're the contents of the new box set.

Lance A  4545 BV

LCT-1S Locust
WVR-6R Wolverine
CPLT-C1 Catapult
AWS-8Q Awesome

Lance B  4542 BV

COM-2B Commando
SHD-2H Shadow Hawk
TDR-5S Thunderbolt
BLR-1G Battlemaster
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Daryk on 15 October 2018, 18:00:41
Very close... I think I'd probably swap the SRM Locust and Commando though, as I favor the Awesome over the Battlemaster and the second lance has plenty of SRMs already between the Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, and Battlemaster.  I don't know what that'll do the BV, as I don't use that system.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Hellraiser on 15 October 2018, 21:47:21
Thank you all for the input.

I like that there are exact opposite opinions in there about which lance is the clear winner.   Must mean I picked well enough to cause debate.

Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 October 2018, 11:19:18
I agree with playing to a time limit or increasing the number of weapon/armor ratio mechs as suggested.  You want to get him excited about it, blowing things up helps the excitement level.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Greatclub on 21 October 2018, 19:21:12
Falconer -9R
Venom -9KC

VS

Falcon Hawk -9K
Banshee -6S

Shooty VS mobile. The two things I'd worry about are 1) the Heavy Gauss getting an early lucky hit 2) the venom being excessively annoying to hit.

Opinions?
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 22 October 2018, 23:05:48
Banshee 6S vs Falconer is a bad match up- the Falconer has too many advantages.  Better range, more overall firepower, better mobility.  And the Banshee's weapons are all mounted in the torso so if the Falconer gets to its rear it's effectively screwed.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Greatclub on 22 October 2018, 23:40:30
Banshee 6S vs Falconer is a bad match up- the Falconer has too many advantages.  Better range, more overall firepower, better mobility.  And the Banshee's weapons are all mounted in the torso so if the Falconer gets to its rear it's effectively screwed.

Not the original Falconer, the Jihad one with heavy PPC and LB-10X. Less range, but you get the shotgun.

Yeah, Falconer is a lot more mobile, but a 25-point gun covers a lot of sins. All it takes is one initiative roll and a to-hit and it's over.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 October 2018, 00:05:57
I actually forgot about that Falconer variant.

An HGR only does 25 points of damage out to 6 hexes.  If the Falconer stays at 14-18 hexes, it actually outguns the Banshee, as the HGR drops down to 10 points.  No, that's just not a match up I'd want to be running the Banshee in.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 October 2018, 01:12:35
Not sure why you would add the complication of a HGR in a instructional match up.
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Greatclub on 23 October 2018, 23:32:28
1) because it's an unquestionably decisive weapon. At short range it can peel a torso with one hit, and is significant even at medium range. It's exciting.

2) It minimizes the number of dice that need to be rolled. Demo games are slow enough without throwing around a half dozen weapons, each needing to have it's to-hit calced.

3) Because I'm a sometime warmahordes player, and the HG exemplifies risk management

4) unless the banshee spends the game chasing after the Venom, there really isn't much of a worry about long-range kiting on a single map. Back-stabs are a more relevant concern, but one that happens whenever one unit is faster. Hopefully that's what the Falcon Hawk is for.

5) I'd run this as a second game, after panther / Jenner
Title: Re: Good Demo Force
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 October 2018, 11:17:45
Heavy Gauss Rifles require a PSR unless bracing (contradicts #2).

Heavy Gauss Rifles explode- into the CT depending on design.

Heavy Gauss Rifles have variable damage over range.

This is for teaching a new player, your adding a lot of case rules with complications.  You want a BFG, there are plenty in the Lyran stable (and a regular Gauss armed Banshee) and among other Houses.  The Venom keeps things from being 'decisive' as you want . . . heavies & assaults IMO should go no more than 4/6, and yeah BFGs but also some smaller stuff and lights/meds should not be the annoying kite-you-game-never-ends stuff like the OTT, Spiders or Venoms.