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BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Precentor Scorpio on 08 September 2019, 13:44:09

Title: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Precentor Scorpio on 08 September 2019, 13:44:09
Did they ever find Arthur Steiner Davion.  Since I had the impression he was on Mars being groomed by the Master
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Alan Davion on 08 September 2019, 20:13:13
According to Sarna he was assassinated on December 6th, 3062, which is apparently the spark that started the fire known as the FedCom Civil War.

Supposedly he faked his death and would later reappear as Devlin Stone, as the Sarna page says their general philosophies were identical.

There's been no official confirmation for this though, so take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 08 September 2019, 20:27:32
There was a hint in Total Chaos source book that he was working with the WoB as a Prescentor. As one of the three Mercs working for the Wob and saw someone whom they thought that he looked like him. However the book is canon but given random choice its adventure. So it may not be canon solid. Maybe canon rumor.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 08 September 2019, 20:50:40
The Arthur=Stone was mostly a fan theory shot down by most writers as Devlin Stone not only looks and sounds different but is also taller than Arthur.

I personally never liked the idea of Arthur being some random Wobbie in the background, gives his character allot less gravity.

IMO, don't think Arthur survived. The Shadow Division may have grab him for the same reasons ComStar grabbed Fotch but no indication he recovered from his wounds. If he did, most likely was jetted off with the remains of the MD to who-knows-where and might as well be dead.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Onion2112 on 08 September 2019, 22:40:26
Playing conspiracy theory but since the German word for “Stone” is “Stein”, this could mean anything but Devlin Stein(-er) does have a distinct similarity to Davion-Steiner

Also I believe Devlin Stone gave Prince Julian a mech named Arthur in TRO 3145/50 (can’t recall which)
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 08 September 2019, 22:55:34
i'm pretty sure that Arthur was a plot thread that FASA was going to use in the original planned version of the Jihad, and that when we had the multiple company changeovers and the resulting changes in creative staff and outlines, it was a plot thread that got forgotten.

i don't think that Stone is Arthur.. as pointed out, the two men are way too different physically. far more than could be accounted for by cosmetic surgery.

i suspect that Arthur's fate will be tackled eventually.. Catalyst has shown a strong willingness to take a lot of those hanging plot threads and mysteries and use them to weave new stories, either to progress the timeline or to create interesting side stories that enrich earlier periods.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 08 September 2019, 22:59:57
We know Arthur survives the bombing and the implication is he’s pretty badly mangled by the blast - hence recovering in some sensory deprivation tank as they regrow.
That would fit with him becoming one of the Master’s Chosen cyborgs.

Is he Lucifier? The Word of Blake MD who works on Terra with St Jamias? That would fit with the Total Chaos reference to seeing a MD that resembles Hanse Davion.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 09 September 2019, 00:25:06
We know Arthur survives the bombing and the implication is he’s pretty badly mangled by the blast - hence recovering in some sensory deprivation tank as they regrow.
That would fit with him becoming one of the Master’s Chosen cyborgs.

Is he Lucifier? The Word of Blake MD who works on Terra with St Jamias? That would fit with the Total Chaos reference to seeing a MD that resembles Hanse Davion.

Lucifer was confirmed by one of the writers to be someone else but I can't for the life of me remember who.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 09 September 2019, 15:52:46
FASA novel plot lines unfortunately were no longer solid one serial production of original core novels ceased.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: abou on 09 September 2019, 16:39:45
I think Ray on the boards mentioned Stone was going to be a Rabid Fox operative, which explains his skill set. Never had a chance to come up so it just sort of became a moot point.

If we had novels to carry us through the Jihad, we might have seen that and what happened to Arthur. Arthur may have had a big role to play in the Jihad, but behind the scenes that only a novel could cover.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 09 September 2019, 18:11:36
I think Ray on the boards mentioned Stone was going to be a Rabid Fox operative, which explains his skill set. Never had a chance to come up so it just sort of became a moot point.

If we had novels to carry us through the Jihad, we might have seen that and what happened to Arthur. Arthur may have had a big role to play in the Jihad, but behind the scenes that only a novel could cover.

Obviously, not technically canon as it was just posted here, but one of the authors confirmed this.
Remember in Masters and Minions there is the implication that Devlin Stone fits the description of the following: a merchant dropship captain from Liao space, a FedSun militia mechwarrior, a construction worker and at least one other person.
The writer confirmed in a post here that Stone was supposed to be ALL of them. They were all just various cover identities for a Stealthy Fox.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: abou on 09 September 2019, 18:48:50
Yeah, if we ever do get those novels, I hope they keep with the original idea. Just because we know what happens doesn't mean we can't get an interesting or compelling story.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Alan Davion on 09 September 2019, 19:17:47
Yeah, if we ever do get those novels, I hope they keep with the original idea. Just because we know what happens doesn't mean we can't get an interesting or compelling story.

I absolutely agree with this, which is why I was so excited for "The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance" on NetFlix. Just cause we know how the overall story ends, doesn't mean there aren't stories waiting to be told from the past.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Daryk on 09 September 2019, 19:19:48
Someone who understands the 3025 fan base!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: beachhead1985 on 09 September 2019, 23:37:04
I'll chip in with remembering a writer saying something, somewhere, some time about ASD being the original plant for Stone, but going in a different direction with it.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Kojak on 09 September 2019, 23:39:56
Lucifer was confirmed by one of the writers to be someone else but I can't for the life of me remember who.

IIRC it was confirmed to be Ravanna, post Thuggee-MD.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 10 September 2019, 04:35:41
IIRC it was confirmed to be Ravanna, post Thuggee-MD.

I just looked. And you’re right. Meanwhile, who the hell was Ravanna? He’s just sorta appeared as the head of the Thugee MD
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 10 September 2019, 17:45:21
He probably spare parts now in some lost WoB vault.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: dgorsman on 10 September 2019, 18:10:46
Ugh, now there's a creepy thought.  Just as Mechs were frankensteined to keep them going during the succession wars, Domini soldiers being maintained with salvaged cybernetics.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: beachhead1985 on 11 September 2019, 23:37:21
Ugh, now there's a creepy thought.  Just as Mechs were frankensteined to keep them going during the succession wars, Domini soldiers being maintained with salvaged cybernetics.

I like to imagine that part of the personality/memories of the former host survive in their salvaged parts.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 12 September 2019, 00:26:30
Arthur Steiner-Davion was turned into the Six-Million C-Bill Man.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Ogra_Chief on 12 September 2019, 00:29:06
@beachhead1985
Ewww...

I actually hope the Arthur Steiner Davion story line goes in a different and unexpected direction. I rather Stone be an odd footnote in BT history.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 12 September 2019, 00:56:57
As someone who actually enjoyed aspects of the Dark Age, my money was on Stone being dead from the word go. That said; yeah, rather not have Arthur come back in the same fashion and turn it into a full blown trope. 
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: beachhead1985 on 13 September 2019, 22:19:41
@beachhead1985
Ewww...

I actually hope the Arthur Steiner Davion story line goes in a different and unexpected direction. I rather Stone be an odd footnote in BT history.

"What is that?..."

"Oh! Well, our unit displays their Jihad Battle Honours with scavenged Manei Domini cybernetics; one per battle honour. Our Regiment fought in six campaigns; so six random body parts!"

"Why is there a blue light still blinking on the head?"

"Don't know! Our Tech's EMP'd the heck out of it before we could keep it, but that light just keeps blinking where the eye was."

"And you've had that hanging, upside-down from your flagpole---"

"---Standard."

"Your standard....since the Jihad ended, fifty years ago?"

"Fifty-Six! The head came first! If you turn a radio to 56.90 Mhz there's this weird wailing we think comes from a triple-core processer embedded in that thigh! And the diaphragm in the ribcage flutters if you touch a powercell to that spinal cord."
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Caedis Animus on 14 September 2019, 05:23:47
Ugh, now there's a creepy thought.  Just as Mechs were frankensteined to keep them going during the succession wars, Domini soldiers being maintained with salvaged cybernetics.
I did have the idea of a Canopus-Born Merc (Obviously fanfiction) who was heavily robo'd up and started taking trophies of Manei Domini Cybernetics to replace any bits they broke as the Jihad went on... So I like this idea.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: deathfrombeyond on 14 September 2019, 13:33:40
In terms of characters having dual identities, my own wild theory was that curaitis and Candace liao’s youngest son Quintus were the same person.

Wild theories are fun!
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Precentor Scorpio on 14 September 2019, 20:10:35
I'm satisfied with the thought of Devlin Stone was originally going to be ASD and then the writers decided to go in a new direction.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Annwn on 14 September 2019, 20:44:03
I'm satisfied with the thought of Devlin Stone was originally going to be ASD and then the writers decided to go in a new direction.

That was my conclusion too.  I'm also fine that they went another direction if that was the case - I think the overall story was much better with Stone not being ASD.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 14 September 2019, 21:02:01
Just to prove that the universe can be run by someone who's not named Steiner-Davion?
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Greywind on 14 September 2019, 21:30:24
Just to prove that the universe can be run by someone who's not named Steiner-Davion?

Inconceivable!
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 14 September 2019, 23:21:24
I did have the idea of a Canopus-Born Merc (Obviously fanfiction) who was heavily robo'd up and started taking trophies of Manei Domini Cybernetics to replace any bits they broke as the Jihad went on... So I like this idea.

My recent non-canon mercs were led by a CO who lost an arm and replaced it with a bionic one hacked from the MD who blew his arm away.
I think Felix ended up with one bionic arm (lost on Donegal) and a leg (shot out of his Mech on Skye).

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=53133.0
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Drunkjon on 15 September 2019, 11:57:45
Can we have a kickstarter to get 3067-forward spine novels???

Yeah, if we ever do get those novels, I hope they keep with the original idea. Just because we know what happens doesn't mean we can't get an interesting or compelling story.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Sartris on 15 September 2019, 12:16:15
Shadows of Faith was supposed to be the first but went unfinished. Embers of War sets off the main characters toward Outreach at the same time as the WoB attack commences.

My copy of Embers also has the first chapter of Shadows as a bonus. Unsure if they included that as an intended sneak peak of a future release or just a epilogue to show the death of Jaime Wolf and act as a lead-in for the extant Jihad plot books. The c/w on Embers is 2015/16 so TPTB may have switched direction at that time on whether to finish Shadows.

Whatever the case, a printing of Redemption Rift is tentatively slated next along with the second and third books in the Rogue Academy trilogy
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 16 September 2019, 08:35:57
Whatever the case, a printing of Redemption Rift is tentatively slated next along with the second and third books in the Rogue Academy trilogy
Is Redemption Rift the next book they announced in spine series?  jihad era novel?
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 16 September 2019, 09:20:13
"What is that?..."

"Oh! Well, our unit displays their Jihad Battle Honours with scavenged Manei Domini cybernetics; one per battle honour. Our Regiment fought in six campaigns; so six random body parts!"

"Why is there a blue light still blinking on the head?"

"Don't know! Our Tech's EMP'd the heck out of it before we could keep it, but that light just keeps blinking where the eye was."

"And you've had that hanging, upside-down from your flagpole---"

"---Standard."

"Your standard....since the Jihad ended, fifty years ago?"

"Fifty-Six! The head came first! If you turn a radio to 56.90 Mhz there's this weird wailing we think comes from a triple-core processer embedded in that thigh! And the diaphragm in the ribcage flutters if you touch a powercell to that spinal cord."

This post? This one here? This is art.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: roosterboy on 16 September 2019, 16:11:01
Is Redemption Rift the next book they announced in spine series?  jihad era novel?

Redemption Rift was a BattleCorps serial novel about Wolf’s Dragoons going to work for the Draconis Combine and then fighting against the FedSuns in the Draconis Reach contested area circa 3139-40. It is being published in a single piece now.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 16 September 2019, 16:20:29
Redemption Rift was a BattleCorps serial novel about Wolf’s Dragoons going to work for the Draconis Combine and then fighting against the FedSuns in the Draconis Reach contested area circa 3139-40. It is being published in a single piece now.
Thank you, i'm looking forward buying it and reading it. I'm just doing the PoD this time if it's available.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 September 2019, 14:30:05
Just to prove that the universe can be run by someone who's not named Steiner-Davion?

*Pam's voice* But can it really . . ?

Considering VSD was such a big part of Stone's government & plans . . .
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Sartris on 19 September 2019, 15:54:25
even the dune universe didn't need the God Emperor after a while.

granted Chapterhouse was kind of a mess without him...
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Daryk on 19 September 2019, 18:49:40
But it was a good kind of mess... that and Heretics are my two favorite Dune books...
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 19 September 2019, 22:09:48
*Pam's voice* But can it really . . ?

Considering VSD was such a big part of Stone's government & plans . . .

Was he though? The 3080s era source books makes me really feel like Lear was desperate to keep him on the periphery if policy, while he set the agenda for Stone.
Same way he was desperate to sideline Belle Lee to ensure she didn’t push back against said agenda.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 20 September 2019, 06:58:23
Perhaps im in minority but i did hope ASD was to become Stone. Set up in Pardoe's book was to good to undermind it. It was a damn shame.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nightsong on 20 September 2019, 09:30:33
I like to imagine that part of the personality/memories of the former host survive in their salvaged parts.

And now I have a version of that old joke stuck in my head.

“What, do you have a little Steiner-Davion in you?” (Pulls off his medical ID wristband) “I do now.”
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: abou on 20 September 2019, 10:14:01
And now I have a version of that old joke stuck in my head.

“What, do you have a little Steiner-Davion in you?” (Pulls off his medical ID wristband) “I do now.”
By now, all the royals in the Inner Sphere probably have a little Steiner-Davion in them.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 20 September 2019, 11:22:26
I guess Victor not the smallest of Han Davion's kids of them all.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 September 2019, 11:31:25
The trippy one?  Most of Vic's kids are The Master's grandkids . . .
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: nerd on 20 September 2019, 13:09:21
The trippy one?  Most of Vic's kids are The Master's grandkids . . .
There is nothing wrong with the Habsburg method of dynastic relations!

Make it so your neighbors don't want to make war on you for a generation by marrying their junior heirs.

Of course, then you get messes like Charles II of Spain...
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 September 2019, 13:13:17
Well, I never saw anything in universe where it became widely known the Master was the real Thomas Marik.  So all of Vic's kids except Kitsune (of course, that raise's its own question of how the average Drac could overlook a kid in the royal family with a name based on a FOX!) could be going along blithely unaware until someone sprung that on them.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 21 September 2019, 06:22:28
Well, I never saw anything in universe where it became widely known the Master was the real Thomas Marik.

Maybe b/c the Master wasn't the real Thomas Marik.

Jihad:Final Reckoning straightened up that misconception.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Sir Chaos on 21 September 2019, 11:12:18
Maybe b/c the Master wasn't the real Thomas Marik.

Jihad:Final Reckoning straightened up that misconception.

Then please tell us who the real Thomas Marik was. Because Sarna, quoting Jihad: Final Reckoning among other sources, says the Master WAS in fact the real Thomas Marik.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Gaiiten on 21 September 2019, 11:23:26
Maybe ASD is BT`s attempt of Hidden King Arthur tale?
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 21 September 2019, 13:10:21
Maybe ASD is BT`s attempt of Hidden King Arthur tale?
One of many; Kerensky will return and Stone will return being the two most blatant.

Author's name alone would make a similar story trope heavy.

Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 21 September 2019, 13:57:42
Then please tell us who the real Thomas Marik was. Because Sarna, quoting Jihad: Final Reckoning among other sources, says the Master WAS in fact the real Thomas Marik.

I've no idea who the Master is. But it's not Thomas Marik.

J:FR pages 3 and 4, last respectively first sentence:
The sleeves of his white robe gathered at his elbows, exposing the composite mixture of metal, plastics, and myomers that replaced the flesh and blood he had not seen in over fifty years.

April 3081 minus 50+ years is 3030 or earlier. But Thomas Marik got his implants in 3035 at the earliest.

QED.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 September 2019, 14:54:33
Implants yes . . . prosthetics from being close to a big boom that replaced flesh?
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 21 September 2019, 15:08:26
If implants or prosthetics is irrelevant - the big boom was 3035. Not 3030 or before.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: abou on 21 September 2019, 15:41:17
Likely an error by the writer. Unless something else is peaking around, everything written both in-universe and out has stated The Master was Thomas Marik.

I would go to the Ask the Writers section.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 21 September 2019, 16:14:42
As far as I've read there was never a confirmation by TPTB - that doesn't mean anything, I know, it could have gone past me.

The same for source books - there was never a confirmation, hard evidence, only assumptions. It fit so damn good, and the people fell in love with it.

But evidence? No. Just a theory, nothing more. A theory proven wrong by this one sentence in J:FR.

It's possible you're correct and the writer made a mistake. But so what?

Personally I don't care who the Master was. He's dead, Jim.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 21 September 2019, 16:31:16
I've no idea who the Master is. But it's not Thomas Marik.

J:FR pages 3 and 4, last respectively first sentence:
The sleeves of his white robe gathered at his elbows, exposing the composite mixture of metal, plastics, and myomers that replaced the flesh and blood he had not seen in over fifty years.

April 3081 minus 50+ years is 3030 or earlier. But Thomas Marik got his implants in 3035 at the earliest.
QED.
Well I think it's kind of stupid that they under minded Who the Master was. I mean no one's going to care after how many years later and no one's going to ever find out and I don't know it sounds foolish to throw people off again. Bionics to be replaced I mean that's stupid to me.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 22 September 2019, 02:59:42
I've no idea who the Master is. But it's not Thomas Marik.

J:FR pages 3 and 4, last respectively first sentence:
The sleeves of his white robe gathered at his elbows, exposing the composite mixture of metal, plastics, and myomers that replaced the flesh and blood he had not seen in over fifty years.

April 3081 minus 50+ years is 3030 or earlier. But Thomas Marik got his implants in 3035 at the earliest.

QED.

Claiming that that sentence is evidence of anything other than the author not being pedantically precise is an incredible stretch.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 September 2019, 03:40:03
Maybe Tom really liked his ComStar robes and swears up he did not navel gaze for 5 years.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 22 September 2019, 04:45:54
Claiming that that sentence is evidence of anything other than the author not being pedantically precise is an incredible stretch.

A stretch? Maybe.

Incredible? I don't think so.

For me it's the only hard fact in all the reading I've done about the Jihad and WoB that proves or contradicts the assumption Master=Thomas Marik. I certainly haven't read all that is out there about this subject, so I could have missed it, but...

And considering J:FR was the last of the Jihad source books, it was the ideal book to place the deciding hint in it. And TPTB laugh oneself to death since then b/c nobody caught it.

So it can be on purpose. It can be a mistake also. But I reiterate: so what? He's dead, and it has no real effect on the known history of ComStar, WoB or the Jihad.

Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: roosterboy on 22 September 2019, 05:14:33
From the back cover of JFR...
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 22 September 2019, 05:35:11
My pdf of J:FR doesn't have a back cover.

So in my world nothing contradicts my line of argument.   ;)

And why does my pdf doesn't have a back cover? It must be a conspiracy. They are out there to get me.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Chinless on 22 September 2019, 08:06:48
My pdf of J:FR doesn't have a back cover.

In the pdfs, the covers are sometimes placed together at the front. That image - on the back page of the hard copy - is on p2 of the pdf.

Chris
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 September 2019, 00:57:09
But I reiterate: so what? He's dead, and it has no real effect on the known history of ComStar, WoB or the Jihad.

Because Victor and Isis popped off a series of kids, some who ended up in positions of power.  For modern purposes, its like finding out a political candidate's grandfather was Himmler and no body knew until the evidence was trotted out . . . which is why I asked IF Stone & Co actually knew the Master was Tommy Marik.  I mean, Isis has about the best distancing possible considering she was illegitimate at first and was never raised by him . . . but conspiracy theory types are never really bothered by inconvenient facts.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 September 2019, 01:52:15
I don't think The Master's identity was widely known or even cared about.  As far as Victor's kids are concerned, the one who's got the most to worry about if his parentage is discovered is Alaric.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 September 2019, 02:39:29
Well . . . maybe a bit, Danai would have more of the stigma.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 23 September 2019, 10:52:43
Which Danai has a family connection to Isis?

And what's the connection between Alaric and Isis? Except as wife of his gene-dad.

And the three kids of Isis+Victor don't seen excessively major players. At least nobody wrote something about that on Sarna.

I never read the DA novels, and DA source books only partial. So my knowledge may be a little piecemeal.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 September 2019, 11:18:14
And what's the connection between Alaric and Isis? Except as wife of his gene-dad.

Absolutely nothing.  But the fact that he's the genetic kid of Kathrine and Victor would make him really unpopular among the Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: BoyOfSummer on 23 September 2019, 11:44:06
Ah oh, yeah, the "As far as Victor's kids" I've conveniently skipped reading.  :-[
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 September 2019, 11:50:10
Danai is the daughter of Daoshen and his sister Ilsa Liao-Centrella who runs the MoC, she thought she was their younger sister . . . and would be heir-apparent to both of them.

MLO4H was referring Isis kids not having as much of a stigma as Alaric.  I was merely pointing out by going through the Clan DNA blender it does not have the same stigma as a freeborn inbreeding like Danai.

VicIs kids are in interesting places . . . Burton died before Kai though had his own kids, one of whom is involved in the Curaitis network or whatever- FS/Republic secret society?- and a few other places but we were not told that much since his children were not the prime movers like Caleb or Trillian among the SDs.  In fact, a interesting twist is the FS has now shifted from the Hanse branch to a cadet branch for a First Prince.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Sartris on 24 September 2019, 11:46:29
Thomas Marik was The Master. He was replaced by ComStar with Thomas Halas, who acted as the Fake Thomas Marik after 3035. The Real Slim Shady Thomas Marik rose through the ranks of the Word after the schism
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Gaiiten on 24 September 2019, 12:19:43
BTW have we been told what happened with Quintus Allard-Liao, Kai`s younger brother?
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Wrangler on 24 September 2019, 12:35:21
BTW have we been told what happened with Quintus Allard-Liao, Kai`s younger brother?
Nope.  He went underground during the Civil War happened.  That was last we heard of him.  Properly bumped off screen.  I thought i heard some thing of him during Operation Sovereign Justice during the Jihad when Kai was was rescued. 
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 17 November 2019, 21:59:07
Nope.  He went underground during the Civil War happened.  That was last we heard of him.  Properly bumped off screen.  I thought i heard some thing of him during Operation Sovereign Justice during the Jihad when Kai was was rescued.

A bit of thread necro... but I was just flicking through Interstellar Players and came across the section on the Bounty Hunter.
it lists Quintus as a potential identity for the Bounty Hunter at some point - presumably while hiding out during the Civil War.
Just an interesting tidbit
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Daryk on 17 November 2019, 22:01:08
Interesting, yes, and not really thread necromancy. It hasn't even been two months...
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 17 November 2019, 22:17:43
Interesting, yes, and not really thread necromancy. It hasn't even been two months...

Thread CPR, then?

Interesting idea though. Would Quint try and work hand in glove with the Allies against Kat S-D? Or pursue his own agenda. And you’ve got to presume he’s no longer in the role in 3068 when the Hunter captures Kai off St Ives?
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Daryk on 17 November 2019, 22:18:42
Yeah... I can't really see him capturing his own brother... he must have moved on by that point.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: killgore444 on 18 November 2019, 01:46:54
I actually joined this site just to respond to this thread.
i'm pretty sure that Arthur was a plot thread that FASA was going to use in the original planned version of the Jihad, and that when we had the multiple company changeovers and the resulting changes in creative staff and outlines, it was a plot thread that got forgotten.

i don't think that Stone is Arthur.. as pointed out, the two men are way too different physically. far more than could be accounted for by cosmetic surgery.
If for no other reason, Victor was a close friend/follower of Devlin. It doesn't make sense he wouldn't recognize his own brother.

except Kitsune (of course, that raise's its own question of how the average Drac could overlook a kid in the royal family with a name based on a FOX!)
:)) 8)
I hit the floor laughing at this one.
On a serious note, the Kitsune in Japanese legends wasn't exactly well thought of. It'd be sort of like someone of Norse descent being named after Loki.  ???

Because Victor and Isis popped off a series of kids, some who ended up in positions of power.  For modern purposes, its like finding out a political candidate's grandfather was Himmler and no body knew until the evidence was trotted out . . . which is why I asked IF Stone & Co actually knew the Master was Tommy Marik.  I mean, Isis has about the best distancing possible considering she was illegitimate at first and was never raised by him . . . but conspiracy theory types are never really bothered by inconvenient facts.
Look at politics today. People who's ancestors kept slaves 160 years ago will have problems. Someone who's granddad was responsible for killing billions would have a LOT of problems. Double so since there are still a lot of people who lived through the jihad still alive.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 November 2019, 03:08:52
On a serious note, the Kitsune in Japanese legends wasn't exactly well thought of. It'd be sort of like someone of Norse descent being named after Loki.  ???

Well, that would be the pop-culture version of kitsune, anyway.  In actual Japanese mythology they ranged from benevolent servants of the goddess Inari to mischievous tricksters to outright fiendish.  But it's a heck of an on-the-nose name for a descendant of Hanse Davion.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: killgore444 on 18 November 2019, 05:18:25
Well, that would be the pop-culture version of kitsune, anyway.  In actual Japanese mythology they ranged from benevolent servants of the goddess Inari to mischievous tricksters to outright fiendish.  But it's a heck of an on-the-nose name for a descendant of Hanse Davion.
One of the most common themes in those stories though, is that they are NOT the friends of the ruling class.  ;)
As for being an on-the-nose name for a descendant of Hanse Davion; yes it is. To bad her father Victor didn't didn't live up to expectations. :-\
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 November 2019, 14:06:44
Kitsune Kurita is a guy.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: killgore444 on 19 November 2019, 04:26:07
Kitsune Kurita is a guy.
OK.
I stopped paying attention when Dark Ages came out and they stopped printing the stories. If it wasn't for the Stackpole books, I'd never have used anything from the canon setting.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 November 2019, 11:37:11
Huh?  They had a whole line of DA novels, and while the first 10 had some real jarring stinkers (Ruins of Paper & PG Trilogy) it settled down with a lot of the current writers.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 19 November 2019, 13:24:43
OK.
I stopped paying attention when Dark Ages came out and they stopped printing the stories. If it wasn't for the Stackpole books, I'd never have used anything from the canon setting.

Kitsune Kurita was first introduced in the first book, Ghost War by Micheal Stackpole. Kitsune's only other appearance I'm aware of is in the opening of the Era Digest: Dark Age when he is reviewing the intelligence reports with Victor prior to Ghost War. Victor himself doesn't appear again until The Scorpion Jar which is also his last (if you don't count his funeral)

In any case: Arthur is still dead.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 November 2019, 13:53:55
Pretty sure Kitsune was mentioned about the funeral due to the complications with his cousins . . . and I think he is POV or a researcher for the POV for one of the MWDA SBs.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: killgore444 on 20 November 2019, 03:31:46
Huh?  They had a whole line of DA novels, and while the first 10 had some real jarring stinkers (Ruins of Paper & PG Trilogy) it settled down with a lot of the current writers.
Kitsune Kurita was first introduced in the first book, Ghost War by Micheal Stackpole. Kitsune's only other appearance I'm aware of is in the opening of the Era Digest: Dark Age when he is reviewing the intelligence reports with Victor prior to Ghost War. Victor himself doesn't appear again until The Scorpion Jar which is also his last (if you don't count his funeral)

In any case: Arthur is still dead.
  I only ever read a single one of the DA novels, and that one was told from the POV of a old lady in the former FWL, and had at the beginning VSD's funeral.
 Other than some of the classic battletech books about the jihad and the aftermath, and the technical readouts that came out at the same time as ToW, I never followed the canonverse very much.
 The group I played with at the time really wasn't into BT, so I spent my limited funds elsewhere. The Clix turned me off hard, then finding out the center 120 LYs of the Inner Sphere was barred from jump drives despite there being NOTHING in any of the previous versions of BT to allow that set my teeth grinding. Add in some of the [imo]...   ...faulty decisions made about game mechanics and construction rules, I just stopped buying.
 I never stopped loving the game though. I started with Battledroids when first released, stuck with it through the name change. Then through all the other changes all the way till DA.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 November 2019, 12:43:24
MWDA and BT were different games from a shared universe, so not sure which you refer to as mechanics or construction.

If you read about a older woman from the League at Vic's funeral, that was Jessica Marik who later on put the League back together so it was into the point when they got better.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: killgore444 on 20 November 2019, 13:25:42
MWDA and BT were different games from a shared universe, so not sure which you refer to as mechanics or construction.
  This probably isn't the thread for this discussion, but beginning gripe now:
 Suffice to say that I disliked BA, ProtoM, and some of the other construction rules in CBT. I also disliked how, once ToW came out, the rules centered on canonverse rather than CV being centered on the rules.Up to that point it was rather easy to run a completely non standard game without any rule modifications.
 Heck, MW 1st ed didn't even require you to change anything to run it in a non standard setting.  The 1st campaign I ever played in for BT was on a post apocalyptic Earth with the remnants of the US and USSR doing proxy battles in the ruins of 3rd world countries. No rule modifications needed. We just ignored the 2 side bars in the rule book that gave a sample setting. I miss that, and really wish tabletops of all stripes would stop centering rules around the setting.
 End gripe. ;)
Quote
If you read about a older woman from the League at Vic's funeral, that was Jessica Marik who later on put the League back together so it was into the point when they got better.
  I'm glad the got better after that. Though I'm not sure how she would could accomplish that without out right military force. The way the FWL was always described, they barely held together when times were relatively good. After DA, it would have been split up into at least 3 states smaller than CC.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 November 2019, 14:00:13
Oh, it was a 4 or 5 book arc and Vic's funeral was in the middle of the early half? of MWDA books.  The League broke down into 6 larger states with a lot more smaller alliances and independent worlds- Marik Stewart Commonwealth, Oriente Protectorate, Principality of Regulus, Andurien, Tamarind, and Rim Commonality.  Only 3.5 of those came together to reform the League, it was a lot of diplomatic maneuvering with a bit of specific force.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Moonsword on 21 November 2019, 09:27:49
===MOD NOTICE===

In general, when you realize it's not thread for a discussion, you probably shouldn't post that discussion in that thread.

  This probably isn't the thread for this discussion, but beginning gripe now:

Post that somewhere it's relevant.  This isn't it.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 21 November 2019, 14:56:34
Right, back to the OP: Arthur is still dead.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 November 2019, 14:58:50
Probably . . . and very probably by the current timeframe of 3150+ . . . unless he popsicled like Stone or Sunny, but then that raises a question of why he would . . .
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: dgorsman on 21 November 2019, 15:06:12
Hang on... Stone, OK.  Sun Tzu?  When did that happen?   ???
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 November 2019, 15:30:52
By Temptations & By War, a MWDA novel by Loren introduced it . . . and showed us the Sunny-pop.  I want to say the ER Wars of the Republic that had the Golden Emperor dropping on the cover dealt with that outcome.  Needless to say, Daoshen has not tried to wake up daddy-dear.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 21 November 2019, 16:10:58
The scene in By Temptation and by War was more or less to show us how the cult of Sun-Tzu continues on well into the Dark Age. Sun-Tzu is now technically immortal as claimed by some after surviving the battles with the Wobbie (which wasn't him actually fight but the truth never gets in the way of good propaganda) While Cryo has been used multiple times in BTU for medical reasons (as the Expanse pointed out, a injured human body doesn't take to micro gravity or zero-g too well) but Stone was the first case that I'm aware of to hop out of the freezer after such a long time. Sunny's cryo chamber may just be a fancy coffin like that of Alexander K for the Clans as Sun-Tzu was already beginning to be seen as a divine figure to his most loyal prior to his 'ascension.'

I can only guess putting Arthur on ice may have been a back up plan for the Wobbies as the outcome of the FedCom civil war was still uncertain. May have even kept him on ice hoping they could use him after they started fighting the Federated Suns, crazy enough to think they could win and would need a puppet leader on New Avalon. In any case, if Arthur even survived, all plans went out the window when the Protectorate started to implode.       
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 November 2019, 16:46:26
Oh yeah, the bit in the book makes it extremely doubtful he could survive waking up.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Lorcan Nagle on 21 November 2019, 17:06:05
Plus, Stone was only in cryo for a few years, Sun-Tzu was in there for decades.  The rules for cryo chambers are explicit about how the odds of waking up plummet over long periods of time.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 November 2019, 18:46:42
Eh, Stone was under for about 15 years when Tucker found him . . . but his method & facility was also a LOT better than Sunny-pop's preservation which happened sometime in the . . . 3080s?  So it puts Sunny-pop around 50+ years when the meatsicle was returned to Sian.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 21 November 2019, 19:12:56
Eh, Stone was under for about 15 years when Tucker found him . . . but his method & facility was also a LOT better than Sunny-pop's preservation which happened sometime in the . . . 3080s?  So it puts Sunny-pop around 50+ years when the meatsicle was returned to Sian.
not to mention Stone was in good health when he went in, while Sun Tzu was mostly dead when he went under. thawing them out after so long would probably put a lot of stress on the body, which Stone would be able to survive better than a nearly dead Sun Tzu.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: roosterboy on 21 November 2019, 21:40:43
Eh, Stone was under for about 15 years when Tucker found him . . . but his method & facility was also a LOT better than Sunny-pop's preservation which happened sometime in the . . . 3080s?  So it puts Sunny-pop around 50+ years when the meatsicle was returned to Sian.

STL was popsicled in 3113. And as far as we know he’s still on Liao, guarded by the reborn House Ijori.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: abou on 22 November 2019, 01:14:24
At this rate, I'm hoping the real cause for the blackout will be the frozen head of Walt Disney.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 22 November 2019, 01:34:23
At this rate, I'm hoping the real cause for the blackout will be the frozen head of Walt Disney.
:toofunny:
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: PsihoKekec on 22 November 2019, 02:41:59
It's actually MechNixon.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Crimson Dawn on 22 November 2019, 05:20:43
It's actually MechNixon.

(https://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/2/29/Robo_Nixon.png/300px-Robo_Nixon.png)
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Nastyogre on 22 November 2019, 10:24:44
So, anybody have the funny feeling this is all driving towards 2 things?

1. The opening phrase of the original Mechwarrior game. Between the Fall of the Star League and the Rise of the Heirs of Steiner-Davion, there was an Age of War undreamt of..."    People talked about this years ago here. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=17063.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=17063.0)

I predict a Steiner-Davion will still become the new "First Lord" though it won't be called that and I doubt it will be of a Star League and I don't think it will be soon. All of the mixing of the lines will come together to create a single individual with a valid claim to ALL the house thrones as well as the IlKhan and probably leadership of Canopus as well.

Some mixing of Vic-Isis kids, Kitsune, Alaric, Sun-Tsu - Naomi's kids. Vic-Isis gives claim to FWL (not FS because of Vic's abdication), Alaric the Clans and he will likely get mixed with a Kerensky for fun. Sun-Tsu and Naomi for Cap Con and Canopus, Kitsune for DC (he IS legit if discredited) and where does the last bit come in? One of two places. Either the really yucky rape of Danai Centrella by Caleb Davion or and I think more likely, Danai and some other Davion to be named. (Jullian probably not, but maybe and maybe... Arthur's kids. Why would that be good? His kids would have the best claim to the Fed Suns. Especially after a nearly failed line from Yvonne. )
Then again maybe not Arthur because one interesting little factoid, Stone never had kids. Would make sense for someone who was blown to pieces. Some pieces might not have worked well enough.


2.  None of that is soon. It is probably down the line for when Catalyst wants to say "Yup there is an end to this. In say 3500 or 4000, a Steiner-Davion does bring peace to the human sphere. Hooray. You now know the end of the story so let's blow up some stuff.

Side prediction.  IlClan will give us a good idea of who Stone is/was. It will come out in the discussions of who takes Terra.
(Which will probably be some bizzarro mix of all the IS clans. Falcons, Ravens, Wolves, Bears and Sea Foxes. Maybe Horses too. I could see at least a Falcon/Wolf mix with maybe one more)

Then we have to fight the birds.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 22 November 2019, 14:11:15
I really don't see Arthur having a future impact in the BTU. He had 1 very good story but now is just a fan obsession like Clan Wolverine.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: abou on 22 November 2019, 15:33:31
I really don't see Arthur having a future impact in the BTU. He had 1 very good story but now is just a fan obsession like Clan Wolverine.
Maybe, but the problem is it was too big of a dangling plot thread left. The events for Clan Wolverine happened before the game setting; therefore a lot easier to accept as never being solved.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 22 November 2019, 15:55:06
Too big? Everyone in univers has moved on and the Wobbies are defeated. The epilogue in Surrender You're Dream have potential larger implications but has already been written off by many. Yes, it's a plot thread but not the biggest one the entire universe needs.

I'll go as far to say after this much time has passed, re-intriducing Arthur or Arthur based conspiracy would be just bad writing. They had a window to use the character and it has passed.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 22 November 2019, 15:57:07
Maybe, but the problem is it was too big of a dangling plot thread left. The events for Clan Wolverine happened before the game setting; therefore a lot easier to accept as never being solved.

I don't know. The assassination of Morgan Hask-Davion was also dangled right in front of the audience, then promptly forgotten.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: abou on 22 November 2019, 23:11:36
You guys are right, but at the same time dedicating a whole epilogue to showing him not dead means there was a pretty big purpose to it. Those books are planned and outlined in advance; therefore it wasn't done on a whim.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 22 November 2019, 23:24:55
Not saying that they didn't have a plan, just that for whatever reason they decided not to pursue it before the timeline progressed past when it was relevant.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Hellraiser on 25 November 2019, 01:44:47
In terms of characters having dual identities, my own wild theory was that curaitis and Candace liao’s youngest son Quintus were the same person.

Wild theories are fun!

I feel like the ages were wrong for that.

Wasn't Curatis already mid 30's or so by the time we see him based on his description.

That was the impression I got anyway.

Where Quint would be late teens early 20's.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: Hellraiser on 25 November 2019, 01:52:55
I could see ASD being used in a Historical product about the fate of the Wobblies if we ever learn what happened to them & who was behind the black out.

Maybe he escaped & ruled over them all as Cyborg-Prince-in-Exile.

Might be an interesting novel in the making to see the planning/execution of the black out from the eyes of the perpetrators.
Title: Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
Post by: SteelRaven on 25 November 2019, 12:17:23
If it was the Wobbies, we still no nothing about the state of the Home World Clans so I'm not ruling out a Dragoon like clandestine operation to cripple the tainted IS (just a theory after my first one was shot to hell)

All the same, the Wobbies are the only ones who can expand on that epilogue.