Register Register

Author Topic: MotW: Apollo  (Read 4018 times)

JadeHellbringer

  • Твоя мать была хомяком ...
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19342
  • TurquoiseKitFox!
MotW: Apollo
« on: 08 February 2019, 14:12:01 »

"Orange you glad I didn't say banana?"

NOTE: I maintained this article on a USB drive for a long time as a fill-in article in case someone couldn't get an article up on a particular week. Since I'm not really doing these anymore by popular demand, and the USB drive was needed for another project, I figured today was as good of a time as any to post this and have it out the door.

It's interesting to look at the evolution of design types in the time of Battletech's publication and see how things have changed. Scout Mechs that used to be blisteringly-fast at 6/9/6 now struggle to get away from heavy Mechs, assault Mechs that couldn't cause a PSR with a full alpha strike now can do so with the weapons in their left arm alone, entire new types like the fast heavy have dominated battlefields... but when you get right down to it, the debut of Star League tech didn't change the classic old LRM boat a great deal. Tricks like XL engines and double heat sinks have enhanced their abilities, Narc and Artemis have made them better at their jobs, but the LRM-throwers of 3025 don't feel all that out of place even in the Jihad- in fact, it's safe to say that few 3025 stalwarts have aged as well as those designs have, still just as viable in those later years as they were in their heyday. It's no surprise then that even as new designs began to filter out of Inner Sphere think tanks and factories following the Clan invasion, there was still great need for this type of simple, effective fire support.

Few nations know the need for LRM support as well as the Free Worlds League, where Trebuchets and Archers have long held a greater importance than other places (and that says a lot!), and it's no surprise that Earthwerks saw an opportunity to build a new entry into that field. They stuck with simple, proven techniques to produce a machine called the Apollo- but did they play it a little TOO safe? Is it a decent Mech? Will it put the classic Trebuchet out the pasture, particularly following that design's struggles in 3050? It's complicated.

Despite the FWL having access to both Helm data and a massive industrial base, the Apollo stayed away from most of the new tricks coming out- tricks that were showing up across the FWLM in both good and bad ways. After all, for every effective Marik upgrade like the Awesome or Hermes II, there were odd ones like the Trebuchet or Hunchback to cause head-scratching. This extended to the new designs that followed as well, with some good ideas mixed with other oddballs like the Albatross. With that in mind, the Apollo feels almost quaint- few of the wild tech made it here, which both reduces cost and maintenance difficulty.

We start at the engine, as always, where we find a dinosaur. A simple 220 fusion engine, same as the old days, powers the 55-ton Apollo to a humdrum 65 kph (4/6), with no jump jets added on. A rare use of new tech finds double heat sinks installed, allowing the Apollo to run very cool in most situations, but this is a design that won't be going much of anywhere in a hurry- it paces older heavy formations nicely, but if you want it to find good firing positions the way a Trebuchet's higher speed allows (or a Catapult's jets allow) you may find this a frustrating machine to run.

We didn't do much with the engine, so we had room to make the armor beefier than the Trebuchet. Eleven and a half tons of standard plating cover the Apollo with a skin that can shrug off even an AC/20 round in most places, which is no small feat really on a medium Mech. That's standard plating, again- despite having a glut of open crit spaces, no endo or ferro shows up on this design, and while the former is a difficult field upgrade one can't help but think an upgrade with the latter isn't a bad investment someday- every little bit helps, right?


Some kind of ceramic cover maybe over the LRM racks shattering as it fires? Very unusual.

Any LRM boat is measured by its throw weight- after all, no one cares how fast or tough you are if your firepower is anemic. The Apollo here mimics its predecessor with a pair of Zeus LRM-15s, though unlike the Trebuchet's upgrade the Apollo went with Artemis IV systems over Narc capability. This is a mixed bag- while Narc relies on other units to slap a pod on a target (a downside for sure), Marik at this point is developing plenty of units that can provide that role, not the least of which is the Trebuchet itself and the ubiquitous Orion! To forego that ability in favor of Artemis is almost a pity, and one can't help but think those two tons would be useful elsewhere. The missile batteries have the standard two tons of ammunition each, and both launchers and ammo are buried in the side torsos, freeing the arms up for... well, I almost said 'punching', but if your Apollo is in a fistfight you have done something very wrong.

The standard backup for an LRM boat is medium lasers, which the Trebuchet packed three of. The Apollo made an odd choice, going instead with a pair of center-mounted small pulse lasers. This isn't a great choice here- while they're very handy for getting rid of infantry, they're not particularly helpful for much of anything else- and if your Apollo is on anti-infantry duty for any reason, you Apollo-ed wrong. A pair of medium lasers, bland as they may be, are tried and true in the backup role and would have been a better choice- if all else fails here, the arms are still free for punching if you really need to. (The free arms, with hands and all, also mean Apollos are likely helpful in non-combat roles as well)

There's not a lot here to get excited about, honestly- it's a solid fire-support design, for sure, but it lacks the wow-factor many designs from TRO:3055 have like the Stealth or Hercules. It's a 2002 Toyota Camry- it's not going to turn heads, it's not going to make anyone fall in love with it, but it'll do the job it's made for without any trouble.

But, of course, that was simply the standard 1M model. A simple modification results in the 1R, removing the Artemis systems (I approve) for two more tons of LRM ammo. That's interesting- the Artemis wasn't all that helpful overall for the tonnage it cost, and this simply makes the Apollo able to sustain its bombardment for longer- nothing bad there, for sure. I strongly encourage the use of this model if you have a choice between the 1M or 1R, and if the 2S below is unavailable.

The 2S model debuted soon after the original, and made the swap I mentioned above to put in medium lasers in place of the small pulse lasers. This is simple stuff, hardly justifying an actual variant number, but is considerably more capable of defending itself against the kind of light harassing units that plague LRM boats and should be considered over the standard model whenever possible. Your Apollo shouldn't be fighting infantry- don't set it up to do so.

A bigger departure towards making the Apollo close-combat capable is the 3T model, which drops the LRM batteries down to 10-racks. They retain the Artemis systems (which again aren't really all that helpful, particularly on smaller launchers!), with the four tons of ammo remaining untouched as well. The small pulse lasers went away for the medium lasers in the 2S model, but the tonnage lost in the LRM racks is then put into a medium pulse laser mounted in each arm. This is interesting- the loss of LRM potential, the reason for the Mech to exist, is unfortunate indeed, but the ability to tell a snooping Spider or Pegasus to go the hell away is pretty handy. If you run Apollos, having one of these in a lance with the others can make for a handy bodyguard.


"You wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts!"

And then there's the weirdo. The 4M model comes from the Prototypes TRO, and as such it's got all sorts of changes. The engine becomes an XL at last, but the speed remains 4/6. Ferro-fibrous armor appears, giving slightly less protection as before but with solid weight savings- what could the engineers be up to here? A single ER medium laser in the head replaces the original backup lasers, and... the payoff for all the weight savings, a pair of Extended LRM-15s each fed by a two-ton ammo bin. Wow. I guess it depends on how much you love the ELRM, whether you're a fan of this ride or not- the drawbacks are enormous, but the range is artillery-levels of ridiculous. Since I'm not a huge fan of them, this didn't do much for me, but your experiences may differ wildly.


This thing is so boring even the CCG artwork of it is bland. This is what vanilla looks like.

It remains then only to discuss an offshoot of the Apollo as we wrap up here. With the reveal that Joshua Marik had died in the care of FedCom, the FWL refused sales of the design to the AFFC, and to the LAAF once the Lyran half of FedCom broke away. In response, Steiner developed the Cobra as their Apollo-answer, with a similar setup of LRM-15s on a medium-weight Mech. There's ink spilled on this design elsewhere, so I won't go into detail here, but if you find the Apollo appealing you'll enjoy the Cobra as well- they're fairly similar in the same vein as the Trebuchet and a half dozen other designs out there.

Years ago a discussion on these forums occurred in which a poster tried to explain that mounting Clan LRM racks could double the throw weight of an Apollo- which is true, of course. My argument against this became the occasionally-quoted Apollo's Law, named for this design as a result- if it needs Clan tech (or other radical gear) added to a machine to make it good, it probably isn't worth the investment to add that tech in the first place. Sure, Clan LRM-15s or 20s will make for a better Mech- no kidding. But if you have a few Clan LRM racks laying around, would you put them on an otherwise-humdrum 55-ton machine like this, or save them for other, already-better Mechs? Essentially, would you make an 'eh' Mech good or a good Mech great? With the rule aside, Apollos aren't really great for modifications- they're slow, and don't have a lot to do in terms of modifications that don't run into weight problems- you don't have lightweight engine or structure to fall back on, so the only place to find that weight is in the missile racks, and as the 3T taught us those are best left alone in-general lest you lose the point of the machine to begin with.

But hey, what's the point if you can't tinker a bit? Develop your take on the Apollo and share a link to the design in the Fan Design area! Tell us stories of using Apollos! You know how this works, join the discussion below!
« Last Edit: 08 February 2019, 14:14:51 by JadeHellbringer »
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 32955
  • Divided States of SMASH
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #1 on: 08 February 2019, 15:14:06 »
And then there's the weirdo.

Summoned, I appear! Bwahahahaaa!!!

I love the Apollo. Oddly enough, despite my affinity for strange units with rare equipment, the sheer elegance in the simplicity of the Apollo is what draws me to it. Almost no advanced tech, and all those basic components means it's cheap. I can put it in just about any force to give them support, and save enough BV that the rest of the unit can often field the really fun stuff. If the FWLM is a toolbox, the Apollo is the hammer, and League LRM toys means that every problem really can be a nail. I especially like putting one or two in larger forces(often paired with an actual Archer), to give me more points with which to get the League's magnificent heavies, or famous fast assaults.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

JadeHellbringer

  • Твоя мать была хомяком ...
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19342
  • TurquoiseKitFox!
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #2 on: 08 February 2019, 15:20:46 »
It really does pair up with Archers nicely, in a 2:1 (or reverse) ratio combined with a bodyguard like a Hunchback. It's plenty fun and cheap, just very bland to boot- there's worse sins for a Mech to commit than being boring, of course (hello Goliath 3M), but it does mean that there's no particular thrill to running one- it does its job and goes home (maybe?), and if you don't remember by the time you pack the miniatures up that an Apollo was ever on the field then that's to be forgiven.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 32955
  • Divided States of SMASH
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #3 on: 08 February 2019, 15:26:19 »
In the sandwich that is warfare, not everybody can be the cheese. If you don't have bread, it all falls apart.

(Unless you nuke it and use the gooey cheese to hold everything together. I may have just made a Regulus metaphor.)
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16498
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #4 on: 08 February 2019, 16:50:41 »
Its too bad it did not get any Jihad upgrades (did the factory end up with the Blakists for a bit?) using a LFE and MMLs.  You would think the mini-Archer was kept up by the League headed into the 60s but it seems to fade away.

I think the Apollo would be a merc's dream mech . . . solid fire support as is, and should be cheap to acquire but its a design made to be customized.  ERMLs, FF armor, electronics options, large missile bays . . . lots of options without changing the basic construction of the mech.

For the Apollo it comes down to . . . would you rather have a Archer, Yeoman or Apollo in the lance?  For me that is going to come down to logistics-  If its a company with Wolverines, Shadow Hawks, Griffins, Wraiths, Cronuses or later Quaisimodoes then the Apollo makes sense since its going to share parts with the other 55 tonners.  The Archer of course matches up with Guillotines, Hercules, later Carronades,   And for the Yeoman, it has the unfortunate logistical sharing with Quickdraws (though should provide a source when short), Ostrocs, Ostsol, Anvil, and later Anzu.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

Empyrus

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4838
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #5 on: 08 February 2019, 16:55:16 »
Compared to older medium-class fire-support designs like the Trebuchet or Dervish, the Apollo isn't really an improvement. It does offer greater endurance, but with lesser mobility, it is not really a replacement. The Apollo is better than the Whitworth... but then that thing's 15 tons lighter, so not sure it is quite comparable.
It does work well as a drop-in replacement for older Archers, cheaper too probably, on the account of its lighter weight and smaller engine.
Incidentally economics are quite likely the biggest reason for the Apollo's existence. It is cheap, and reasonably effective. And its quirks are helpful here (per BMM), Fast Reload not so much but Rugged makes it a good fire-support 'Mech for lesser units, or for harsher conditions.
On paper i'm not a fan of the Apollo but when i consider the logistical side of it, it starts making a lot of sense. Points for that.

Of the early variants, i figure that either the 1R and 2S are better options than the original 1M. The 1R's deep ammo bins can be equipped with specialty munitions, and the 2S is just better overall, since as noted the Apollo shouldn't be near enough enemies ever to utilize its SPLs. Pity there's no variant with ERMLs and no Artemis IV, perhaps with one freed ton used to add CASE for side torsos, five tons of ammo is quite plenty for LRM-15s.

The 3T is weird. It is like it is trying to be a Dervish but without the Dervish's speed. Might work as a sort-of bodyguard for other fire-support 'Mechs.

The ELRM variant is interesting. It uses Composite Structure in addition to Ferro-Fibrous and XL Engine, meaning it is very vulnerable to damage after the armor is gone, but with such massive range, it really shouldn't be taking any hits in the first place. A specialist unit certainly. Might also make for good anti-aircraft unit, though pity about lack of anti-air targeting systems (as the quirk). A fun variant, that retains the original style and feel yet is interesting and probably not bad either.

All in all, it ain't a flashy 'Mech but it is hard to go wrong with it. The Archer has served centuries effectively, and the Apollo's just a cheaper, smaller version of that. The Artemis system is a bit of waste, especially if one is going for indirect-fire, but fortunately the 1R variant exists to solve that.

(Amusingly, the Lyran's Cobra isn't really any better. With higher speed but weaker armor, it is very much like the Dervish or the Trebuchet, yet not really an improvement over those. And by using Endo-Steel and Ferro-Fibrous, it is more difficult to manufacture, making it logistically slightly dubious option.)
IS standard and pulse lasers: red; IS ER and X-pulses: blue; Re-engineered lasers: orange; Clan ER, pulse, and ER pulse lasers: green; Clan heavy lasers: yellow; PPCs: skyblue; PPCs w/capacitor: purplish-blue.

God and Davion

  • excelencia Steiner
  • Administrator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4717
  • Super Secret Capellan Operative
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #6 on: 08 February 2019, 17:43:49 »
  Thanks for the article!  It is a nice mech, very bland but 2LRM15 should not be ignored. It is a mech for bean counters. It can do 75% of the Archer LRM spam at less cost.

  Honestly, the Yeoman is quite better as a LRM boat and the Trebuchet is almost as good as a LRM boat, despite being more fragile. The Trebuchet is far more flexible and this puts the Apollo in a bad position. It is not a big surprise that it didn't survive the Yihad.
We are back again... but we never forget Albatross

Empyrus

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4838
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #7 on: 08 February 2019, 17:49:14 »
The Yeoman's so ugly it is unusable.

And what do you mean the Apollo didn't survive the Jihad? The existence of the newtech variant argues otherwise, and the Apollo is rather widely used post-Jihad.
EDIT Checking TRO:Prototypes, it seems to imply that the production line was rendered inoperative, along with 'Mech losing sales due to being "old fashioned". These lead to the line reopened and producing the new 4M variant, though given how widespread the Apollo is, i'd imagine they opened the line for the original as well, there's always budget-conscious buyers after all.


Interestingly, MUL gives availability of the APL-2S as Dracs and FWL Jihad and earlier, while post-Jihad it is CapCon and Dracs. Export variant? FWL sold all their examples elsewhere? Cappies recreated the variant by modifying their other Apollos post-Jihad?
« Last Edit: 08 February 2019, 17:53:02 by Empyrus »
IS standard and pulse lasers: red; IS ER and X-pulses: blue; Re-engineered lasers: orange; Clan ER, pulse, and ER pulse lasers: green; Clan heavy lasers: yellow; PPCs: skyblue; PPCs w/capacitor: purplish-blue.

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8725
  • Hear me now and believe me later
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #8 on: 08 February 2019, 18:11:15 »
The only Apollos produced after the jihad are of the 4M variety

A lot of the FWL 3055 staples are oop like the albatross (Irian mothballed) and wraith (paradise is dead)

Empyrus

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4838
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #9 on: 08 February 2019, 18:12:46 »
Do we know that for sure? Production info about various 'Mechs is often rather vague.
IS standard and pulse lasers: red; IS ER and X-pulses: blue; Re-engineered lasers: orange; Clan ER, pulse, and ER pulse lasers: green; Clan heavy lasers: yellow; PPCs: skyblue; PPCs w/capacitor: purplish-blue.

Deadborder

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6933
  • Technical Victory!
    • Elmer Studios Blog
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #10 on: 08 February 2019, 18:40:33 »
The only Apollos produced after the jihad are of the 4M variety

A lot of the FWL 3055 staples are oop like the albatross (Irian mothballed) and wraith (paradise is dead)

The Cappies bought out the Wraith's design and resumed production, as per FM3145
Author of BattleCorps stories Grand Theft Agro and Zero Signal



Whenever you use terms like 'fiat' or 'stupid pills', you render your argument invalid

How to Draw MegaMek Icons the Deadborder Way

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16498
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #11 on: 08 February 2019, 18:50:27 »
The Yeoman's so ugly it is unusable.

HERESY!  KILL THE HERETIC!

Which is just a League way of disagreeing . . .

With the LRM15s being IIRC the most inefficient launchers out there, I do wonder if giving it a LFE and just bumping to plain 20s would be better.  Have to check HMP when I get home, it would make it a pocket Archer for sure.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16431
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #12 on: 08 February 2019, 19:02:06 »
I'm sure it's possible for a mech to be more boring than the Apollo, but I'm not certain as to how.

Our Officer's Club is better than your Officer's Club.

Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 32955
  • Divided States of SMASH
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #13 on: 08 February 2019, 20:20:58 »
Hellstar.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Orin J.

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • I am to feared! Aw, come on guys...
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #14 on: 08 February 2019, 20:27:48 »
The problem with the Apollo is that there's no problems- which is to say there were no problems that it addresses. there's 'mechs from 3025 that fill its niche in either direction admirably and often give more bang for the buck, and generally more interesting choices to spluge for later on. the best it can say is it's a fairly cheap way to deliver 30 tubes of artemis LRMs, but, well....is artemis really vital enough to merit fielding this thing?

More importantly, why does it have taint-fins. this has bothered me for ages, what do they do.
The Grey Death Legion? Dead? Gotcha, wake me when it's back.....
--------------------------
Every once in a while things make sense.


Don't let these moments alarm you. They pass.

Empyrus

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4838
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #15 on: 08 February 2019, 20:28:36 »
Hellstar.
Dunno, that might cause terror in opponents, and that ain't boring.

I'm sure the game has very bland and boring 'Mechs... but i can't recall them...
IS standard and pulse lasers: red; IS ER and X-pulses: blue; Re-engineered lasers: orange; Clan ER, pulse, and ER pulse lasers: green; Clan heavy lasers: yellow; PPCs: skyblue; PPCs w/capacitor: purplish-blue.

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1706
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #16 on: 08 February 2019, 21:36:12 »
Since I'm not really doing these anymore by popular demand
People demanded you to not be doing these anymore?  :o 

The Apollo's a great mech. I knew of its existence, then forgot, and now I can discover it anew. Not much to see, though.
Well, gotta have some bread and butter units.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1839
  • UNTIL IT IS DONE.
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #17 on: 08 February 2019, 22:14:18 »
Dunno, that might cause terror in opponents, and that ain't boring.

I'm sure the game has very bland and boring 'Mechs... but i can't recall them...
Effeciency is a brand of boring all its own.

That said, I'm generally more terrified when something like a Cygnus or Berserker is rushing me. even though 4 headcappers a turn sucks to fight, I'd still rather that then something that can core a medium with a melee hit or have me roll for 40 individual hit locations.
Berserker D4s are the Doom Slayer of Battletech; Change my mind.

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6730
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #18 on: 08 February 2019, 23:46:02 »
I want to like the mech because it tries to be a mini-archer (the same legs/feet) but it's soooo boring. If your not a fan of LRMs (raises hand) it doesn't really do much for you.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Empyrus

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4838
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #19 on: 09 February 2019, 00:33:25 »
I want to like the mech because it tries to be a mini-archer (the same legs/feet) but it's soooo boring. If your not a fan of LRMs (raises hand) it doesn't really do much for you.
Think of it this way, if you don't like LRMs but need a 'Mech with them, the Apollo is rather cheap, whether in C-bills or BV.
IS standard and pulse lasers: red; IS ER and X-pulses: blue; Re-engineered lasers: orange; Clan ER, pulse, and ER pulse lasers: green; Clan heavy lasers: yellow; PPCs: skyblue; PPCs w/capacitor: purplish-blue.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16431
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #20 on: 09 February 2019, 00:41:39 »
Hellstar.

As others have already pointed out, the Hellstar is quite boring to play, but not so boring to fight.  The Apollo is a snooze-fest regardless of which side of the battlefield it's on.

But hey, I'll give it points for this: it's a Marik design that didn't get a Light Gauss Rifle.

Our Officer's Club is better than your Officer's Club.

Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 32955
  • Divided States of SMASH
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #21 on: 09 February 2019, 01:16:06 »
I'm genuinely confused. How on earth can anything that can carry that many different kinds of LRMs ever be boring?
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10166
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #22 on: 09 February 2019, 03:05:33 »
I'm genuinely confused. How on earth can anything that can carry that many different kinds of LRMs ever be boring?

A hammer may be used to drive many different and even interesting kinds of nails, but that doesn't mean the hammer is interesting.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

SD501st

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 116
  • Lead me, follow me or get out of my way!
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #23 on: 09 February 2019, 07:11:20 »
ignore functions for all but the second picture in the thread are active
Well, besides being cheap and functional in it's role as a budget Archer, you can say one other thing about the Apollo... it looks quite nice!

Since I'm not really doing these anymore by popular demand
I'll echo UnLimiTeD's notion here... WHAT THE ACTUALL EFF?!
Give me the names of those heretics and I'll torture them to death with the blandness that is the Eagle!  >:D

Which brings me to...

I'm sure it's possible for a mech to be more boring than the Apollo, but I'm not certain as to how.
« Last Edit: 09 February 2019, 07:37:25 by SD501st »

marauder648

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6281
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #24 on: 09 February 2019, 08:41:52 »
Its a perfectly functional Marik Mech that don't mount a light gauss or ER large, so that means LRM's and deep ammo bins too!  Sure its not that interesting but its useful and meshes well with Marik forces who are renowned lovers of the LRM spam.  A great article too :) Amusing and insightful :D  And I almost forgot about the walking tangerine version of this things art.  Almost.. *weeps*
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16431
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #25 on: 09 February 2019, 11:51:19 »
ignore functions for all but the second picture in the thread are active
Well, besides being cheap and functional in it's role as a budget Archer, you can say one other thing about the Apollo... it looks quite nice!
I'll echo UnLimiTeD's notion here... WHAT THE ACTUALL EFF?!
Give me the names of those heretics and I'll torture them to death with the blandness that is the Eagle!  >:D

Which brings me to...


I'm sorry, but for a mech to be more boring than the Apollo it has to exist. :P

Our Officer's Club is better than your Officer's Club.

Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

misterpants

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Bringing you the beats and grooves of Xin Sheng
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #26 on: 09 February 2019, 12:51:17 »
The bean-counter in me would team an Apollo with a BJ-3 Blackjack as part of a shrunk-down heavy 'mech group substitute.
Avatar by Blackjack Jones

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16431
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #27 on: 09 February 2019, 14:37:41 »
Diet Archer and Diet Warhammer, eh?

Our Officer's Club is better than your Officer's Club.

Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

Crimson Dawn

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 391
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #28 on: 09 February 2019, 16:28:50 »
HERESY!  KILL THE HERETIC!

Which is just a League way of disagreeing . . .

With the LRM15s being IIRC the most inefficient launchers out there, I do wonder if giving it a LFE and just bumping to plain 20s would be better.  Have to check HMP when I get home, it would make it a pocket Archer for sure.

Huh I would have thought the LRM 10 was the most inefficient launcher. 

Funny enough on the boring angle it even looks somewhat like an archer but not quite as cool. 

Empyrus

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4838
Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #29 on: 09 February 2019, 16:34:04 »
Huh I would have thought the LRM 10 was the most inefficient launcher. 

Funny enough on the boring angle it even looks somewhat like an archer but not quite as cool.

Pretty sure LRM-10 is indeed the most inefficient launcher, and using Art.IV with it doesn't help at all. One reason i'm really not fan of the weird laser/LRM-10 model of Apollo.
IS standard and pulse lasers: red; IS ER and X-pulses: blue; Re-engineered lasers: orange; Clan ER, pulse, and ER pulse lasers: green; Clan heavy lasers: yellow; PPCs: skyblue; PPCs w/capacitor: purplish-blue.