Vehicle of the Week Special Feature (Repost): Wyrm Submersible Fortress

[Welshman]

silly rule that, prolly only made it so you cant get rediculas with whiping out whole companys of mechs with NL55s or something. cuz in reality you know they would make it so you could shoot ground targets , or even underwater.

Part of it is certainly rules balance.

Part of it is practical mechanics.

For cannons and missiles, you're dealing with a lot of recoil or backblast. A Long Tom generates so much recoil even a Superheavy BattleMech can't handle it. Imagine the recoil of a SubCap cannon.

Size- Capital scale weapons are big. The Rattler is seven levels tall. It has to be that tall to fit the silos and SubCap laser focusing system. If you mounted this horizontal it would make the BattleShip Yamomoto's gun barrel look like sawed off shotguns.

Heat Sinks- While the SCC/10 and smaller SC Missiles don't use too much heat, when you get to the bigger SubCaps or into the full grade weapons you are looking at a lot of heat. An NL55 takes a BattleMaster worth of heat sinks to keep it cool.

[Moonsword]

Exactly.  And both of the extant surface-to-orbit weapons platforms, in addition to whatever supporting units may be on hand (or nearby installations in the case of the Rattler), include their own internal artillery battery with the ability to lob tactical nuclear weapons if you really need to slam a target with that sort of firepower and capital missiles, which can be employed in a surface-to-surface role unlike capital/sub-capital lasers, cannons, or what have you.  Since they're indirect fire, they don't need to have LOS, either, and both of them have supporting VTOLs embarked in internal hangers which can readily spot for their weapons.

[Weirdo]

...and a VTOL with TAG is a large ship's best friend... >:D

[SCC]

NL55s are about the largest weapon you can squeeze into a Mobile Structure. After mounting the laser and the heatsinks there are only 72 tons left over.

I'm guessing that's per hex, right?

...and a VTOL with TAG is a large ship's best friend... >:D

I've already pointed out the MS's use standard, not capital, C3 systems

[Weirdo]

C3 doesn't help when firing artillery or capmissiles. TAG helps both. C3'll help if you let your enemies get to close range. TAG helos are for ranging much further out, and eliminating targets before they can threaten a ship directly. They basically work the same way modern naval helicopters do.

[Stormlion1]

I just want to see someone make a mini of this monstrosity.  :)

[Weirdo]

That sounds like a job...for cardstock!

[SCC]

C3 doesn't help when firing artillery or capmissiles. TAG helps both. C3'll help if you let your enemies get to close range. TAG helos are for ranging much further out, and eliminating targets before they can threaten a ship directly. They basically work the same way modern naval helicopters do.

Can you point me to the rules for (sub-)capital weapons using TAG? It's given me a very interesting idea

[Weirdo]

StratOps, I don't have a page reference offhand. Surface-to-surface shots are still a form of orbital bombardment(don't ask me), and ortillery shots get a -2 to-hit if the target hex is TAGged. This isn't as suicidal as you think, as the -4 mod for TAGging an immobile target(a hex) means the TAGger can do this from the limits of the TAG's range, and thus outside the blast radius of a capital strike(if it hits, or doesn't drift too much, which the TAG also helps with). Also, I believe capmissiles also gain an additional -2 for ortillery shots compared to other guns, so you can reasonably expect to hit things dead on with TAG-guided capital/subcap missiles.

On a side note, if a PWS is flying at any Low Altitude and fires capmissiles at the ground, it's treated as an orbit-to-surface shot, but without all those pesky atmospheric hex modifiers. Combine that with a TAG, and a Leopard-PWS or hovering Mule-Q can reasonably expect auto-hits with capital-scale guns if you're willing to brave interceptors and possibly ground-based AA. >:D

[Khymerion]

On a side note, if a PWS is flying at any Low Altitude and fires capmissiles at the ground, it's treated as an orbit-to-surface shot, but without all those pesky atmospheric hex modifiers. Combine that with a TAG, and a Leopard-PWS or hovering Mule-Q can reasonably expect auto-hits with capital-scale guns if you're willing to brave interceptors and possibly ground-based AA. >:D

Totally worth it honestly.   The missiles have a stand off range that is incredible so a few concealed taggers can do wonders.

[Weirdo]

Two things to note about your statement: One, using TAG immediately reveals a hidden unit, so they won't be hidden for long. Two, that auto-hit stuff is when said DropShip is directly above the target, or just about. You may be dropping Killer Whales willy-nilly, but your enemy just needs to send up one conventional fighter, or for ground AA to peg you with one ADA or LB 2-X to potentially cost you that entire DropShip. I personally wouldn't risk more than one turn of fire, before peeling off and evading the inevitable reinforcements. It still isn't an "I win" button. It's just a really fun one.

[Zureal]

Part of it is certainly rules balance.

Part of it is practical mechanics.

For cannons and missiles, you're dealing with a lot of recoil or backblast. A Long Tom generates so much recoil even a Superheavy BattleMech can't handle it. Imagine the recoil of a SubCap cannon.

Size- Capital scale weapons are big. The Rattler is seven levels tall. It has to be that tall to fit the silos and SubCap laser focusing system. If you mounted this horizontal it would make the BattleShip Yamomoto's gun barrel look like sawed off shotguns.

Heat Sinks- While the SCC/10 and smaller SC Missiles don't use too much heat, when you get to the bigger SubCaps or into the full grade weapons you are looking at a lot of heat. An NL55 takes a BattleMaster worth of heat sinks to keep it cool.

 well NL doint have recoil, they are lasers :P lol and id assume you could fire cap missiles from it almost like a ICBM and still hit surface targets . and another thing, the ship is designed to be able to handle the recoil, els why have them on it in the first place :P

I want them to design a DS that can transport this monster, and another one for the rattler, just emagin hitting a water rich world and dropping off one, or a rattler on another that can fire at ground targets  >:D

[Khymerion]

Two things to note about your statement: One, using TAG immediately reveals a hidden unit, so they won't be hidden for long. Two, that auto-hit stuff is when said DropShip is directly above the target, or just about. You may be dropping Killer Whales willy-nilly, but your enemy just needs to send up one conventional fighter, or for ground AA to peg you with one ADA or LB 2-X to potentially cost you that entire DropShip. I personally wouldn't risk more than one turn of fire, before peeling off and evading the inevitable reinforcements. It still isn't an "I win" button. It's just a really fun one.

Oh, trust me... I know the expandability of concealed spotting units.   That and the big missiles are like cruise missile light...  nice long flight times that make interception difficult if it is the leopard and can do more than just hover.

[Hellraiser]

This thing is sick, favorite new design from the Terra book.