BA design confusion.

[DoctorX]

Hey, I wanted to get some opinions on this Battle Armor suit I played round with one day when I was bored. I am interested in where I've gone wrong and if anyone has any ideas on what I can change to make it right/better.

This is the base design:

Code: [Select]

        Classic BattleTech Battle Armor Technical Readout
                            VALIDATED

Type/Model:    No Name Yet 
Tech/Era:      Inner Sphere / 3055 / CBT Rules
Chassis Type:  Humanoid
Weight Class:  Light Battle Armor (401 - 750 kg)
Rules:         Level 2, Standard design

Ground Speed:  21.6 km/h
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor Type:    Standard

------------------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    No Name Yet 
Equipment:                                          Slots    Mass
Chassis Type:  Light Class Humanoid                   0       100
Motive System: Ground Movement (2 MP)                 0        30
               Jump Jets       (3 MP)                 0        75
Armor Type:    3 Points Standard                      0       150

Manipulators:
  Left Arm:    Battle Claw                            0        15
  Right Arm:   Basic Manipulator                      0         0

Weapons and Equipment                Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount          LA               1         5
 (Anti-Personnel Weapon Space)       LA               0         0
Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount          LA               1         5
 (Anti-Personnel Weapon Space)       LA               0         0
Modular Weapon Mount                 RA               1        10
 (Anti-BattleMech Weapon Space)      RA               0         0
Missile-Capable Modular Weapon Mount Body             1        10
 (Anti-BattleMech Weapon Space)      Body             0         0
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               4       400
Slots & Mass Left:                                    4       350

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:     423,000 C-Bills, Including Trooper
                Training Costs of 150,000 C-bills
Battle Value:   9 (36 for 4)  Weapon Value: 3 (Ratio=.33)
Cost per BV:    30,333.33 (w/o Trooper Training costs)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 0   MRDmg = 0   LRDmg = 0
Mechanized:     Can travel on OmniMechs and OmniVehicles
Attacks:        Can perform Swarm and Leg attacks
BattleForce2:   Class: IB   MP: 3J   Armor/Structure: 2 / 0
                Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-   Overheat: 0
                Point Value: 0    Specials: mec, car4

                Created by HeavyMetal Battle Armor

Yes, this light suit doesn't even have a name. Why name a design that I might not keep, eh.  :)

I know that I can't use both AP weapons in the same turn, there are two on the left arm for tactical flexability. My first thought was to mount a ballistic weapon (automatic rifle, SMG, shotgun, etc) and an energy weapon (laser rifle, blazer rifle). When the ammo for one runs out, you still have the other powered by the suit. One can even mount a sonic stunner for those times when one wants to take prisoners.

The right arm mounts the primary anti-mech weapon, be it a small laser, Light MG, Flamer, Light TAG.

The secondary anti-mech slot in the body can mount a missile launcher with disposable missile pack (SRM 1, MRM 1, or LRM 1) with either 8 or 4 reloads. Optionally the body mount can be used for heavier weapons.

Some of the configurations I've imagined are below:

Code: [Select]

 
==================================================================
Configuration: Alpha

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Small Laser                          RA/MWM    30     1       200
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 SRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       140
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       750
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0         0

==================================================================
Configuration: Beta

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Small Laser                          RA/MWM    30     1       200
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 MRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       100
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       710
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0        40

==================================================================
Configuration: Gamma

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Small Laser                          RA/MWM    30     1       200
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 LRM 1                               Body/MWM   4     3        93
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       703
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0        47

==================================================================
Configuration: Delta

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM   30     0         0
Light Machine Gun*                   RA/MWM    50     1        75
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 SRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       140
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       625
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0       125

==================================================================
Configuration: Epsilon

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Light Machine Gun*                   RA/MWM    50     1        75
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 MRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       100
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       585
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0       165

==================================================================
Configuration: Zeta

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Light Machine Gun*                   RA/MWM    50     1        75
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 LRM 1                               Body/MWM   4     3        93
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       578
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0       172

==================================================================
Configuration: Eta

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Flamer                               RA/MWM    10     1       150
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 SRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       140
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       700
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0        50

==================================================================
Configuration: Theta

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Flamer                               RA/MWM    10     1       150
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 MRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       100
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       660
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0        90

==================================================================
Configuration: Iota

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Flamer                               RA/MWM    10     1       150
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 LRM 1                               Body/MWM   4     3        93
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       653
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0        97

==================================================================
Configuration: Kappa

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Light TAG                            RA/MWM    60     1        35
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 SRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       140
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       585
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0       165

==================================================================
Configuration: Lamda

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Light TAG                            RA/MWM    60     1        35
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 MRM 1                               Body/MWM   8     3       100
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       545
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0       205

==================================================================
Configuration: Mu

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Light TAG                            RA/MWM    60     1        35
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 LRM 1                               Body/MWM   4     3        93
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       538
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0       212

==================================================================
Configuration: Nu

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Light TAG                            RA/MWM    60     1        35
Magshot Gauss Rifle                  Body/MWM  20     3       175
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       610
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0       140

==================================================================
Configuration: Xi

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
Light TAG                            RA/MWM    60     1        35
Light Recoilless Rifle               Body/MWM  80     3       235
  (with High-Explosive Ammo)
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       670
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0        80

==================================================================
Configuration: Omicron

Config Weapons & Equipment           Loc     Shots  Slots    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------
Blazer Rifle                         LA/APWM          0         0
Rifle, Automatic                     LA/APWM  120     0         0
David Lt Gauss Rifle                 RA/MWM    20     1       100
Detachable Missile Pack              Body/MW          0        10
 SRM 2                               Body/MWM   4     3       200
------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               8       710
Slots & Mass Left:                                    0        40

What I'd like to know is simple....what did I do wrong? Is the ground speed too fast? Not enough armor? Please feel free to comment and show me how to make it right.

Thanks :)

[wellspring]

Just to kick things off, energy weapons run off a different energy cell than the main suit. So their ammo is limited just like ballistics in a non-tabletop setting, though of course they can recharge their weapons. In game design terms, they use a clip just like ballistic weapons to represent their energy cells.

[Sabelkatten]

3 points of armor is real thin, and 2 ground MP is a bit slow if you plan to move around carrying a missile launcher...

I'd give it 3 ground MP and 5 points of armor, and drop one APWM. Or on second thought, I'd drop both APWMs and switch to armored gloves (carry one hand-held infantry weapon). That leaves 255 kg for weapons and space for a SSWM in the left arm. Hurts the small laser option, but you can still pack a missile launcher and a lighter weapon (or a small laser and a OS-LRM1).

[ABADDON]

I'm wondering why there are 2 MP anyways if the thing can already jump 3. On a light suit that is quite a waste.

[wellspring]

I'm wondering why there are 2 MP anyways if the thing can already jump 3. On a light suit that is quite a waste.

Move in on foot, fire missiles, jump out I presume. I make clan designs but don't the detachable missile mounts need to be included in the base design?

[UnLimiTeD]

3 points is ok for a light Anti-BA design or similar, you won't do much with it, but it's not bad.
Of course, in that case you should really go for being hard to hit.
Light designs are just not that capable in Battletech terms, though cost is probably a strong point.
I second the suggestion to go for armored gloves, mobility is ok, though, and the price point is decent.

[wellspring]

Light designs are just not that capable in Battletech terms, though cost is probably a strong point.

Second this. Dropping from assault to heavy gives you the mechanized rules. Going from Heavy to Medium lets you add swarming and leg attacks. Unfortunately, there's no real pickup that comes from going from medium to light. (Some mobility changes on the edges, but even those designs aren't much to phone home about.) Most light designs can be improved by bumping them up to Medium without trading away anything but price/BV.

[DoctorX]

Just to kick things off, energy weapons run off a different energy cell than the main suit. So their ammo is limited just like ballistics in a non-tabletop setting, though of course they can recharge their weapons. In game design terms, they use a clip just like ballistic weapons to represent their energy cells.

Unfortunately the design program I used does not recognize that fact. Perhaps it will be corrected in the next update (whenever that will be).

[DoctorX]

3 points of armor is real thin, and 2 ground MP is a bit slow if you plan to move around carrying a missile launcher...

I'd give it 3 ground MP and 5 points of armor, and drop one APWM. Or on second thought, I'd drop both APWMs and switch to armored gloves (carry one hand-held infantry weapon). That leaves 255 kg for weapons and space for a SSWM in the left arm. Hurts the small laser option, but you can still pack a missile launcher and a lighter weapon (or a small laser and a OS-LRM1).

Yeah I thought it would be a little thin. The suit does have one armored glove for hand-held weapon use, so remoing either one or both left arm AP weapon mounts may be a good idea, but it does reduce tactical flexability. I do have a personal preference for lasers, so would like to have that option open.

One question thought, what is a SSWM? I am not familliar with that acronym.

[DoctorX]

I'm wondering why there are 2 MP anyways if the thing can already jump 3. On a light suit that is quite a waste.

Good point. I was considering shifting it down to one while keepng the jumping mp at three (or even reducing it to two and using the saved weight for heavier weapons.

[DoctorX]

Move in on foot, fire missiles, jump out I presume. I make clan designs but don't the detachable missile mounts need to be included in the base design?

I chose the number almost at random really, though yeah I can see what you mean by moving and firing. I can;t say for certain, but that may have been a sub-concious thought.

The design program I used allows the DWP to be optional. Perhaps it is a flaw in the program. It has not been updated since 2009 (which is a bit of a frustration to me).

[DoctorX]

3 points is ok for a light Anti-BA design or similar, you won't do much with it, but it's not bad.
Of course, in that case you should really go for being hard to hit.
Light designs are just not that capable in Battletech terms, though cost is probably a strong point.
I second the suggestion to go for armored gloves, mobility is ok, though, and the price point is decent.

Yes it is a light suit of Battle armor and yes cost was a major consideration. Again, not sure of my thoght process at the subconcious level, but that may have why the MP (ground and jumping) are at the levels they are.

You're right they are not that capable, but if used en masse it could be like the "death of a thousand cuts" for a lighter Mech (or vehicle).

[DoctorX]

Second this. Dropping from assault to heavy gives you the mechanized rules. Going from Heavy to Medium lets you add swarming and leg attacks. Unfortunately, there's no real pickup that comes from going from medium to light. (Some mobility changes on the edges, but even those designs aren't much to phone home about.) Most light designs can be improved by bumping them up to Medium without trading away anything but price/BV.

Price was, as I've already stated, a major concern. I do have a medium weight-class design that is similar. I sort of envisioned it as a light scout/raider suit than anything else. Not quite as good as GD Scout, I know.

[Sabelkatten]

Yeah I thought it would be a little thin. The suit does have one armored glove for hand-held weapon use, so remoing either one or both left arm AP weapon mounts may be a good idea, but it does reduce tactical flexability. I do have a personal preference for lasers, so would like to have that option open.

One question thought, what is a SSWM? I am not familliar with that acronym.

Squad support weapon mount. Actually rather bad for carrying actual weapons, but useful for things you only need one of, like TAG, NARC or electronics.

With 255 kg you could still mount a small laser, you'd just be more limited in your backup options (55 kg). A detachable OS-LRM1 or RL/1 are the only things I can think of that fits. OTOH a one-shot LRM isn't such a bad idea since it lets you fire off the thing quickly and then use jump jets to close quickly with the laser.

[ABADDON]

Good point. I was considering shifting it down to one while keepng the jumping mp at three (or even reducing it to two and using the saved weight for heavier weapons.

No, that would lose one TMM, because only 3 hexes an 5 hexes moved give you better protection. So decreasing the jumping range would see u fall under the threshold.

[DoctorX]

Squad support weapon mount.

Yeah, I should have gotten that one. I'm a little stupid, please forgive me.

I've never even considered the Squad Support Weapon Mount. I figure that an anti-mech weapon is a good enough substitute for a squad support weapon. The one exception, for me, might be the MP-PPC (support PPC) and according to the program I use to design Battle Armor suits, it is capable of using the non-missile capable modular weapon mount. This could be a (another?) fault of the program.

[Sabelkatten]

As noted, using a SSWM for ordinary weapons isn't very useful. But if you have the space for it, it is very handy for other toys.

E.g. with 255 kg you could mount a SL, a RL/1 (detachable) - and a LTAG in the SSWM. You only need one TAG, after all! Or how about advanced sensors for 35 kg?

Just realized I've got to ask for a clarification from someone with up to date rules: I could swear I've read that a SSWM takes up one slot in itself, but I can't find it now... If you have 2 slots for a SSWM, can you mount a 2-slot system, or only 1 slot?

[DoctorX]

As noted, using a SSWM for ordinary weapons isn't very useful. But if you have the space for it, it is very handy for other toys.

E.g. with 255 kg you could mount a SL, a RL/1 (detachable) - and a LTAG in the SSWM. You only need one TAG, after all! Or how about advanced sensors for 35 kg?

Just realized I've got to ask for a clarification from someone with up to date rules: I could swear I've read that a SSWM takes up one slot in itself, but I can't find it now... If you have 2 slots for a SSWM, can you mount a 2-slot system, or only 1 slot?

I've never even considered the SSWM to be perfectly honest. I've always considered the extra weight worth it. Besides it is only carried by one trooper in a squad. What happens to it when the poor bugger carring a portion of it gets vaporized by an errant (or intentional) PPC blast. "Well there goes Johnny up in smoke. Sure wish he wasn't carring the firing initiator for the Tsunami Heavy Gauss Rifle. Now were fuked." Right? The LTAG you kinda would want that on every trooper too, right. Johnny could have been the one with the LTAG. Now that he's dust who is gonna be the one designating for your buddies to 'bring the rain' that'll stop those bloody bad guys from being on my land. At least that's the way I've always seen it.

In the TechManual Errata 2.1 it says the SSWM always counts as one of a suits allowable anti-'Mech weapons, and they take up one slot. Must have been there that you read it. That is also a good reason to forgo the SSWM for a MWM. If its going to count as an anti-'Mech weapon slot, might as well mount an anti-'Mech weapon.

Just my way of thinking, eh.

[UnLimiTeD]

Generally, a single trooper dying should not negatively affect the SSWM function.

[sillybrit]

As long as trooper #1 survives then you can keep using the SSWM weapon/equipment, even if everybody else is dead. Obviously, SSWMs require a lot of handwaving.

I've come across house rules that allow a chance of another trooper replacing trooper #1 if the latter is killed. The replacement trooper is assumed to drop their original squad equipment to pick up that previously carried by trooper #1; a die roll was added to allow for the possibility of trooper #1's squad equipment being destroyed along with the suit.

Another house rule was that at least one other trooper had to be alive (two for Clans) so that a complete weapon could still be assembled.