Author Topic: MOTW Returned - The Targe!  (Read 6729 times)

ItsTehPope

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MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« on: 10 March 2011, 21:17:38 »
Continuing the review of the lighter brigade from 3085, we have our next article, the Targe - which as a frame is so bad, that even in universe it’s admitted to be a deathtrap and ineffective on all levels.  I mean, while the Mjolnir is a bit of a dud, it’s at least a fun concept machine and has neat/cool art.  But the Targe fails on all levels.  If there was a BattleTech FailBlog, this thing would be on the highlight reel right next to a picture of Hellbie, a Kraken and a blowtorch.

     Examining the fluff, we find out that Northwind is now part of the ROTS and Corsara designed this to help expand the fledgling arsenal of the Republic, and more importantly, their profit margin.  The entry notes that “the Crab and Black Watch were solid if unspectacular designs” (Copied from the fluff, we all know how awesome the Crab can be) , and that the Targe was to change all that...well, that they did.  Market research determined what the RAF needed was speed, a missile system and supporting lasers.  The resulting product technically meets these specifications for performing the duties of reconnaissance and counter-recon duties.

     Starting with the “high” notes, is the speed.  A Pitban 320 Light propels this machine at upwards of 129KPH consistently with a MASC system letting it hit bursts of 172KPH.  This is on par with the Cicada for speed and lets it keep a very impressive defensive movement modifier, with MASC engaged a +4 or +5 modifier is quite reasonable.  However, a lack of jumping ability does keep this machine ground bound limiting its ability to do its stated job of recon and counter recon, but not insurmountably so, terrain dependant.  I find this a little more limiting than others do, so your mileage may vary.

     For when the enemy does bother to shoot this thing and the fire actually connects, the “good news” continues, with Valiant Lamellor Special Heavy Ferro-Fibrous.  The design team actually made a good choice here and slathered it on somewhat logically.  With 67 points of structure the design carries 99 points of armor, so roughly two thirds of maximum based off napkin math written while waiting for a hard drive on Thanksgiving from HP in a comms closet that could be mistaken for a meat locker..  The head is maxed out at 9, the torsos sitting on a 10/14/10 arrangement with all rear locations sporting a 4.  Legs carry 15 points.  The arms only have 7 points of armor, however, one should note that this is built in a manner similar to the Yeoman or Blitzkreig, they hold nothing but HFF crits - shots that go there only serve to extend your lifespan for a few more seconds, which depending on what you have done to be assigned this “Battle”Mech, only makes it worse.   It passes the semi smart armor placement test for me at least, as if it falls on its own arse it may not go critical unless something hit it there before the fall.

     From this point on I can no longer try to find reasonable positive or sarcastic criticism.  Moving on to the offensive mechanisms of this ‘Mech, I can only say that this is a machine for people you wouldn’t give a plastic spork to in fear of them stabbing people.  The awe inspiring firepower of this machine is something that would give pause to a 3025 Stinger or Wasp, but that's about it.  Starting the “offensive” goodness we have a trio of ER Small Lasers from Diverse Optics, likely donated to get some room in the warehouse back.  These are spread evenly across the torso with the biggest punch coming from an MRM10 riding in the right torso.  That's right, your maximum reasonably effective range is FOUR hexes.  Eight if you’re counting out the Small Lasers.  I want to try to give offensive tactics for this machine, to try to find something good for it to do besides clearing minefields (By running through them) , but I *can’t*.  It’s that bad.  I’m not even sure CASE is an upside, as when the ammo cooks off, you can still repair it vs buying a ‘Mech that’s worth a damn in combat.

     Okay, so you’re stuck with having to use this thing in combat, you poor soul.  The TRO suggests charging as close as possible to the target, unleashing the volley, popping the MASC and getting the hell out of dodge.  And chances are, you’ll do so little damage, if any - the bad guy won’t vaporize you right there for being in such close quarters to him you’ll probably be ignored.  This will help your lifespan, but not your ego.  In total honesty, you do so little damage, if you connect at all, you usually aren’t worth shooting at.

There is one variant mentioned in TRO3085, which is even more hilarious because it strips out the MRM system for an MML rack, drops the CASE and stores the ammo in the legs.  I don’t need to finish writing out its qualifications on any sort of pros or cons because it has a chance of utterly blowing itself up when it wants to go fasta.  MASC + Ammo in legs is all that needs to be said.  Without an actual record sheet, its hard to go too much into the design so we’ll end it here.  But to be frank, MASCed ammo in legs pretty much covers it.  There is a Dark Age version which is significantly nicer, but its only existing record sheet is from the Dark Ages book which has had some...odd configs in it, I’m a tad hesitant to touch it at this time.

As to how to actually use this machine in the universe - the best use is as a strategic reconnaissance asset.  The guns are anemic and pretty worthless, and should be used only as an emergency measure, or if you feel the need to blow some local cattle into bloody chunks.  It will go out and find the things it needs to “kill” and call in friends that can actually kill something.  If it is ever engaged in combat, it needs to run for its life, as anything you can probably hit, you can’t kill it.  Just run for the hills and call for help.

For the tl;dr crowd: A bad ‘Mech that is so bad, it isn’t even fun as a challenge.  Metagame wise, 2/10 for its inability to do any significant damage, small cockpit and overall fail nature.  In universe wise, I’ll give it a 5/10 for fluff, as the fluff indicates its a sheer pile of crap.  Not even a sheer pile of crap with cool art and a good concept, just an outright pile of fail.

---------------------------------------------


Due to the forum crash the original article was lost.  And with the release of 3085 Cutting Edge, we now have the sheet for the alternate for the Targe.  And its actually not as hopeless as I initially thought.  While the speed does drop to 7/11[14] The change really helps this machine for the better.  The worthless MRM rack is now changed for an Artemis enhanced MML9, and two of the ER Smalls become ER Mediums, with the armor spread being 7 on the vestigal arms, 13 on the side torsos, 15 on the legs, and 15 on the center torso, all rear locations having a fiver.  Nine points again covers the noggin.  Worrisome is the lack of CASE and the ammo is stored in the legs.  A failed MASC check ensures you have a roughly 20% chance of vaporization.  Note to ‘Mechwarriors who have been assigned this machine.  That toggle switch for Auto-Eject?  Toggle it on and then break the switch so it can’t be jostled to off.  The guys in charge of training will thank you later.

This version, while still lousy, at least has potential to contribute to the fight and be fun.  I’ll rate it 4/10 - Its ‘eh’ at best.
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Welshman

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #1 on: 10 March 2011, 23:45:31 »
A four out of ten? I tell you that's an outrage! An absolutely outrage, how dare you rate it higher than a three...

Kit, you may have actually made a useful Targe, I'm going to have to fire you now.

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Istal_Devalis

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #2 on: 11 March 2011, 01:39:23 »
Still waiting for the DA variant, that at least makes the Targe useable.

garhkal

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #3 on: 11 March 2011, 05:20:22 »
I'd yank the MRM out and add in both guardian ECM and a C3 slave...  Turn it into a good spotter.
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Moonsword

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #4 on: 11 March 2011, 17:01:14 »
I'd say use it for recon, except I can probably scrape up some old Succession Wars Cicadas or buy some Locusts to do the same job for a lower price tag.  I rate this design below the CGR-1A1, which at least has a certain (somewhat insane) logic to the design and has sheer audacity on its side.  The one redeeming feature is the artwork is actually pretty decent.

The MASC'd leg ammo in the variants is concerning, but the new Cutting Edge model is definitely a step in the right direction.  MASC, used carefully, isn't that dangerous in my experience, so if you're quick about firing your ammo off, you'll be okay.  That said, from a total cost of ownership perspective, the idea really raises some questions about whether or not it's a good idea since inevitably, a certain number of them are going to be lost to this, sometimes not even under fire.  I remind you that warheads or not, training rounds still have propellant in them, which is quite energetic enough to be troublesome even if it's not the automatic unsalvageable wreck a full load of SRM ammo might be.

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #5 on: 11 March 2011, 18:49:17 »
A four out of ten? I tell you that's an outrage! An absolutely outrage, how dare you rate it higher than a three...

Kit, you may have actually made a useful Targe, I'm going to have to fire you now.

(And just in case, all the above is 100% pure humor)

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Mattlov

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #6 on: 11 March 2011, 20:09:52 »
Nice, Pope, I laughed a bit.

I can't argue with any of the points though.  Combine awful stats with a 214-ton-'Mech-sized miniature, and there is just no reason to field it.  Unless you need a ridiculous BV sink.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #7 on: 11 March 2011, 23:31:20 »
If there was a BattleTech FailBlog, this thing would be on the highlight reel right next to a picture of Hellbie, a Kraken and a blowtorch.

You're not on fire. We really should do something to fix that problem.  [tickedoff]
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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #8 on: 12 March 2011, 02:13:30 »
For a quick and dirty in-character refit that doesn't require a factory overhaul, rip out the MRM, ammo bay and RT Sm laser and replace with a Lt. PPC and Beagle Probe and you end up with what is in essence a Super Locust.


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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #9 on: 12 March 2011, 02:15:26 »
Yeah, really Helbie its just your dice  ::)

That said, its not just the Targe's dice.  It really is rotten to the core.  I generaly defend bad weapons, but I can't stand the MRM, so a mech that spends such a large share of its tonnage on one and packs almost nothing else can't hardly help but bourder on useless.  I'd sooner have an Ostscout, and it would be about as well able to defend itself, too. 
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #10 on: 12 March 2011, 03:17:47 »
Maybe if you aim it just right and hope for a "Stackpole" event...

Nope still not worth it.
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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #11 on: 12 March 2011, 04:45:09 »
Maybe use it as a cruise missile? Saves your Fireballs for more important jobs ;D

Oh, and fire that "strategic research team"...

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #12 on: 12 March 2011, 22:08:51 »
I wonder when the LRM version of the 'Mech will become available.  There was one that was published by 3130 with LRM launcher in it.
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E. Icaza

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #13 on: 28 February 2014, 01:02:31 »
I know this is a bit of thread necromancy, but I had the opportunity to use the Targe today.  I used both variants in MegaMek and all I can say is that we now have a 'Mech that is even more useless than the Sentinel IMO.  I rolled at random on the RotS RAT in FM: 3145 and I'd never used or seen them played in DA/AoD, so they were a surprise...but not a good one.

I'll add that with 'Mech designs like this, the RotS is definitely a worthy successor to the Terran Hegemony and the SLDF, with its combinations of absolutely fantastic units and utter crap that had to result in a Senate investigation somewhere down the line.
« Last Edit: 28 February 2014, 01:08:47 by E. Icaza »
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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #14 on: 28 February 2014, 02:49:29 »
Anyone else think that a t is missing from the end of the name of this 'Mech?

Also it is a sad day when you can build a vehicle that can match a 'Mech, it is a VERY sad day when the vehicle outperforms the 'Mech. That said the Targe should go down to the garden and eat worms as I can make a VTOL 5 tons light that slightly outperforms it with 6.5 tons to spare

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #15 on: 28 February 2014, 05:54:40 »
Still waiting for the DA variant, that at least makes the Targe useable.
I wonder when the LRM version of the 'Mech will become available.  There was one that was published by 3130 with LRM launcher in it.

Well, 3145 NTNU brings us the TRG-3M. It's more vulnerable with an XL engine, but packs more armour and is just as fast as the TRG-1N while bringing 1 LRM10 and 3 ERML to the table.
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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #16 on: 28 February 2014, 06:54:37 »
Well, 3145 NTNU brings us the TRG-3M. It's more vulnerable with an XL engine, but packs more armour and is just as fast as the TRG-1N while bringing 1 LRM10 and 3 ERML to the table.

The 3M definitely looks usable.  I appreciate the 2nd ton of LRM ammo (both torso mounted with CASE^) - gives it the opportunity to use specialty ammo but still reach out and touch somebody.

3 ERLM + LRM 10 + fast speed = ??? 

I think it might be a good (fast) harasser.  Probably a decent raider?

-----

^ why does the need to point out the LRM ammo is torso mounted make me feel good?
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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #17 on: 28 February 2014, 07:01:56 »
It looks like someone wanted to design a Mech and then stopped halfway through the process.

Which somehow is fitting.

That´s all.
« Last Edit: 28 February 2014, 07:22:50 by Molossian Dog IIC »

Grantwhy

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #18 on: 28 February 2014, 07:22:32 »
It's boxie, but to be honest I don't dislike the artwork

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3164/targe-trg-1n

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ps: on using the TRG-1N and 2N ..... Alpha Strike?  The rules, not the big red button on the 'Mech control panel.

I probably need to read the Alpha Strike rules (:D), but looking at the Alpha Strike Stats on the MUL I don't see the same 'problems' that show up under the Battletech rules.

for example: Under Alpha Strike the ... delightful .... Targe 2N vs Cicada 3MA

The Targe 2N has better firepower (M & L) and only slightly worse armor.
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: MOTW Returned - The Targe!
« Reply #19 on: 28 February 2014, 08:02:55 »
Anyone else think that a t is missing from the end of the name of this 'Mech?


No, combine the g and e to make a d.

Well, 3145 NTNU brings us the TRG-3M. It's more vulnerable with an XL engine, but packs more armour and is just as fast as the TRG-1N while bringing 1 LRM10 and 3 ERML to the table.

I'm glad the DA version is available, the design I so sullied. I just wonder what the procurement people say when they see what they are getting for the price-tag....
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