MotW: Hercules

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It's not actually surprising that you'd overlook the Herc even if it matches your playstyle.  TRO 3055 also had the Thunder and Falconer, after all, and they're both mechs with the same mission profile and a bit more flashiness.

[misterpants]

Much of my initial reaction to the Hercules matches ArkansasWarrior's. It wasn't until I saw the Verfolger years later in TRO 3067 that I went back and looked at Hercules in a better light.

As for some of the odd weapon choices & locations for the baseline Herc, it wasn't alone in TRO 3055. The Cerberus and Grand Titan, also FWL designs amusingly enough (or annoying, depending), went with rear-facing MGs and SPLs respectively. The Gunslinger IMO took the cake with rear-mounted MPLs on the legs. Even Clan Wolf got in on the action with the Linebacker C's rear-facing MG and flamer. Take my memory with a grain of salt, but I want to say there was a fluff line for the Cerberus that its MGs were rear-facing due to reports of Elemental flanking attacks.

[Sharpnel]

Most of it.  Those weapons don't play nice with TSM and I'm not a huge fan of its inclusion.

The TSM was for me. :D I loves it. :D

[Sabelkatten]

Much of my initial reaction to the Hercules matches ArkansasWarrior's. It wasn't until I saw the Verfolger years later in TRO 3067 that I went back and looked at Hercules in a better light.

As for some of the odd weapon choices & locations for the baseline Herc, it wasn't alone in TRO 3055. The Cerberus and Grand Titan, also FWL designs amusingly enough (or annoying, depending), went with rear-facing MGs and SPLs respectively. The Gunslinger IMO took the cake with rear-mounted MPLs on the legs. Even Clan Wolf got in on the action with the Linebacker C's rear-facing MG and flamer. Take my memory with a grain of salt, but I want to say there was a fluff line for the Cerberus that its MGs were rear-facing due to reports of Elemental flanking attacks.

The rear guns are anti-elemental in every case IIRC. Pretty logical given the frame (before the designers realized just how tough Elementals are).

But the Gunslinger's rear guns are about as effective as rear weapons can get.

1) MPLs: 2 hex range with a -2 TN (counters the secondary arc penalty).

2) Leg mount: you can twist to fire an arm gun behind you while also firing the rear guns at the same target.

[sadlerbw]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks or that horrible movie every time they see this mech!

Fun write up and accurate in my experience. The choice to add so very much secondary 'stuff' but to leave out case always seemed like a weird choice. It's not like this mech was so optimized that it needed an ammo bomb to reget gun it in. I like the AMS, but honestly, dropping a half ton of SRM or AMS ammo for Case would have been well worth it. I was always surprised that there wasn't a variant that dropped all the 'stuff' to add something like a real missile rack or another large weapon. Still, the two 10-point weapons are respectable, and their placement doesn't bug me as much as it does some people. Years of hunchback fandom have gotten me used to having all my firepower stuck on one side! Honestly, 3055 in general is one of my favorites TRO's for FWL mechs. I even like the Anvil!

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

You can't drop a half ton of SRM or AMS ammo.  Only MG ammo can be added or removed in half ton increments.

[glitterboy2098]

you can in MWO, which i suspect will be a source of confusion for newer players for some time. certainly would have solved the "hanging half ton" problem if regular BT allowed it, though it would make calculating the volley #'s a pain.

really, if you don't want to drop a weapon, switching from the streak2 to a regular would be the easiest way to free up room for CASE. if you want to get more complex, swapping the Small pulses for say, a standard small's would free up a full ton, giving you room to cram CASE and something else. though the dearth of half ton systems makes the choice trickier there.

[JadeHellbringer]

Remember that there's explosives in both sides of the torso, so dropping a small pulse would free up the ability to cover both sides- no point in putting CASE in one side and leaving the other to explode, because while that's LEGAL to do, the side without CASE will attract SRMs and LBX shots like moths to a flame.

[sadlerbw]

You can't drop a half ton of SRM or AMS ammo.  Only MG ammo can be added or removed in half ton increments.

Really? I thought that rule got changed at some point? Of course looking at my Tech manual PDF, it still says just MG's (and nail/rivet guns), but I could have sworn that got changed. Is it maybe an option in MegaMek?

Exact details aside, I still would have dropped SOMETHING to put CASE on. Seems odd to have goodies like LBX cannons, ERPPC's, FF armor,  and Pulse Lasers, but not bother with CASE.

Oh, and I always thought the Apollo paired well with the 3055 FWL heavies. In fact, I think Apollo/Hercules is a better combo than Hammer/Anvil...or really Hammer/Anything...the Hammer sucks.

[Colt Ward]

One nice thing to note . . . the Hercules is still in production into 3140s, on Kendall . . . a independent world.  So it probably saw a lot of use in the Marik Protectors and maybe the Rim Commonality's forces.  It becomes a question mark because the Marians invaded Kendall and IIRC as of 3150 are still fighting over the world against League forces.  I would expect the Blue Shield version (if not both) is built on Kendall since it also produces the Quasimodo in that timeframe.

Whenever I have gotten a Herc on the competitive merc servers I always dump the SSRM ammo . . . cuts the bombs down and the LB-10X is a better crit-seeker than the SSRM2.  Which also reflects my campaign mods, remove that SSRM2 to build CASE for the AC ammo and perhaps MLs or electronics.

Hm, think about that planetary garrison the Marians ran into . . . for mechs- Hercules, Quasimodo, Orion 1-M (and I think a 3 series?), Bulwark tanks, Galleons and the Main Gauche (including the Plasma Rifle IFV version!).  Provides the keys for a pretty solid defense force.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Really? I thought that rule got changed at some point? Of course looking at my Tech manual PDF, it still says just MG's (and nail/rivet guns), but I could have sworn that got changed. Is it maybe an option in MegaMek?

Exact details aside, I still would have dropped SOMETHING to put CASE on. Seems odd to have goodies like LBX cannons, ERPPC's, FF armor,  and Pulse Lasers, but not bother with CASE.

That's FASA for you.  Always building mechs in ways no sane person, in universe or out, can understand.

[Empyrus]

That's FASA for you.  Always building mechs in ways no sane person, in universe or out, can understand.

Oh man... some of older designs are really, really mystifying.
Like, that TRO-3050 Whithworth. Or Vindicator 3L. Hell, it isn't just standard tech but some introductory designs, like the Banshee, why does it have two extra heat sinks for no reason whatsoever (max heat 14, heat dissipation 16)?
It doesn't help there are real gems among them, like the Archer 4M which is about as perfect as you can make it.

[Arkansas Warrior]

That's FASA for you.  Always building mechs in ways no sane person, in universe or out, can understand.

JHB seems to understand it just fine.  Oh, wait...  O0

[Deadborder]

I want to like the Herc. It's got a great start; 5/8, good armour, nice pair of main guns.... and then the secondary weapons are utter arse. So near, yet so far.

It sees a lot of use in my games, usually as a bad guy in mercenary/periphery forces.

[marauder648]

Then again we did get TRO:3058 which put on its 7 league boots and strode firmly into Munchkin territory with things like the Thunder hawk, Pillager, Maelstrom, Shootist Dragon Fire etc :p

Honestly I prefer mech's to be quirky and have flaws.  Sure you can get some real dogs eggs come out that just make you tilt your head and go "Whyyyyyyyyyyy...." but you take the good with the bad.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't think I can justify calling anything with a Gauss Rifle in each side torso and an XL engine "munchkin."

[marauder648]

Risk and reward, to tot that firepower you need an XL engine and that has its own risks.  But the 3058 Mechs were generally very potent machines (even if the art for them was..a bit iffy shall we say) and well designed and laid out.  There was very few machines in that book that were like "Oh WOW what were they doing when they designed this thing?"  sure there was some quirky units in there but nothing that was so 'quirky' that it was just plain bad, or full of head scratch moments a la Warhawk B IE "Why does it have 5 tonnes of ammo for the SRM...WHY!?"

[JadeHellbringer]

JHB seems to understand it just fine.  Oh, wait...  O0

...  ???

[Getz]

I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with the Herc.  The basics are all good - good speed, decent armour and a fine pair of primary weapons - but thereafter it all goes to hell in an handcart, which feels pretty insulting when compared to a Falconer or Verfolger.

For all that, I find usually it works well enough in practice and gives the FWL a decent heavy cavalry design of their own, so I do have a couple in my collection and sometime I even use them...

[Kit deSummersville]

Really? I thought that rule got changed at some point? Of course looking at my Tech manual PDF, it still says just MG's (and nail/rivet guns), but I could have sworn that got changed. Is it maybe an option in MegaMek?

Possible an option that would allow one to make the original Orion, with its 37 shots of the SRM-4.

[Nahuris]

Then again we did get TRO:3058 which put on its 7 league boots and strode firmly into Munchkin territory with things like the Thunder hawk, Pillager, Maelstrom, Shootist Dragon Fire etc :p

Honestly I prefer mech's to be quirky and have flaws.  Sure you can get some real dogs eggs come out that just make you tilt your head and go "Whyyyyyyyyyyy...." but you take the good with the bad.

Sadly, you never get to really see those less fortunate designs, as almost everyone chooses something more optimal ......
One of the reasons I prefer random allocation, over choosing to a point limit.

Nahuris

[cavingjan]

I've always been a fan of mixed. Randomly roll anywhere from 1/3 to 3/4 and then fill to point total. You get even forces and you still get the goofballs. You can also make it a less dysfunctional force.

[GespenstM]

Sorry, I'm a few weeks late to the party; work has been destroying me. Wanted to chime in as the Hercules is a favorite of mine, though.

As an aside, the ANV-3M is not a 'total failure.' It's kind of bad, but it's playable. FWL has worse. Far worse. And the ANV-3R on the other hand is one of our best machines in its mission role.

The Hercules is one of our best overall machines, however. For a relatively low BV cost, you get a mobile attacker that can put up a passable fight at any range. It can go tank hunting or VTOL hunting with the LB AC. The Medium Pulse laser gives it something for dealing with faster units. It is by no means great at any of these roles, but it has something for almost any occasion. Combine this with passable armor and 5/8 movement, and you have basically a more mobile Albatross. It definitely should be one of the first things you consider in a FWL force (This doesn't mean every FWL force needs a Hercules, but you should ask "what reasons do I have for not fielding one"). While the Hercules will never be a star player that strikes fear into opponents, it will immediately cover several tasks in a single Mech. From there, you can build the rest of the team as you like.

The Ultra AC refits teased in the recent TRO books seem like they miss the point of the unit, and I do not expect to like them terribly much. If you want a mobile 'big AC gun' platform, we have the Shockwave and its RAC/5. Admittedly not quite functionally identical, but close enough in my experience.