MotW: HNT-1** Hornet

[Wrangler]

Isn't the Hornet suppose to be a "Lemon" Mech?  Not great mech at all?
The original was never a favorite of mine (Star League version), Succession Wars version were OK, but only if you didn't mind it getting wiped or staying in the background of the Battle.

The Dark Age ones, the HNT-181 and 182 were interesting enhancements but i favore the 182 because it had Medium lasers which could hurt something verses the smalls.

[Weirdo]

"I put a gauss slug into the Hornet's face, and he flipped me off and called me a jerk!"

"Surviving the Gauss was impressive, but successfully flipping me off with a Hornet was doubly so."

[mbear]

I have high hopes that the Filtvelt Hornets eventually get refitted with single heat sinks. I like the use of an MML instead of an LRM, because flexibility.

Assuming the compact heat sinks are removed, does that free up 5 tons? (1.5 tons per compact heat sink * 10 = 15; 10 single heat sinks at 1 ton each = 10 tons)

"Surviving the Gauss was impressive, but successfully flipping me off with a Hornet was doubly so."

Not really. The Hornet only has one finger on its arms.

[JadeHellbringer]

i have kinda mixed feelings about the Hornet's status after the jihad. i actually kind of like the little thing, it was one of the earliest mechs i used while learning the game way back in the 90's. they are odd little bugs, but fun.

on one hand the main manufacturer lost the facility on Talon that made them. which makes seeing additional advanced technology variants unlikely.

on the other, the Filtvelt Coalition Armory is building them in decent numbers apparently, even if it is a kinda odd variant.

but on the gripping hand with the Wolves holding Kallon's Thermopolis facilities, maybe we'll see a 'Hornet C" variant or something. Clantech, even if just clan weapons applied to the old HNT-151 chassis, would give the Hornet a bit more use. (heck, a simple swap for ERML, ERSL, and LRM10 would make it much more effective.) certainly such a mech might make a good cheaper way to fill out a garrison force.

I like the idea of Dark Age Hornets. Particularly in the early phases of the blackout, when light Mechs and modded Industrials were as good of a Mech as many militias could throw together for protection, a Hornet with its LRM rack could be a menace, bombarding enemy units long before they can respond in kind. Its slow-ish speed is compensated by its jumping to use the terrain to its advantage in a way Industrials and vehicles can't... it's a chump against infantry (a huge problem in the Dark Age), but then again it probably didn't show up alone. (Bonus, with Clan tech so easy to come by, swapping that stupid small laser for a Clan flamer would solve that problem quite nicely)

If ever the Hornet was going to show up and be the big man on the battlefield, the early 3130s were that time. Filtvelt must have been quite happy with any export sales.

[glitterboy2098]

...

!

I just had a thought of a Dark Age Hornet variant that combines Clan weaponry with Hardened Armor. :o

hmm.. would you boost the speed, or just suffer a 5/7/5 movement?

i was thinking a sort of 'clan militia mech' idea, where Clan wolf decided to make use of a stockpile of unsold HNT-151's by swapping out the guns and issuing them to Solhama, garrison, and freeborn units. an LRM10 and CERML would make the thing a pocket Valkyrie. to free up heavier or more capable mechs to be transferred to the frontline clusters.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

I'd also add that the original appearance of the "Hornet" had a different picture IIRC.

It seems to me the Black Widow Graphic Novel had a Hornet pilot as a member of the company that died on New Delos & the picture used was more like the Falcon, it was the Robotech-Alphafighter image IIRC.

This one?


Looks nothing like a Falcon though.

[Wrangler]

If they had kept that Alpha Fighter/Hornet, i had though when i was young and first got the book that that could been another LAM.

[jymset]

I'd also add that the original appearance of the "Hornet" had a different picture IIRC.

It seems to me the Black Widow Graphic Novel had a Hornet

<slaps forehead>

You're right, of course! So there *is* an official (though not/no longer canon) illustration of the BattleDroid-ish Hornet. Well, they differ in lots of minuate, but yeah. One visual source.

Thanks to Intermittent_Coherence for posting it!

This one?

Except the 181. I'm not exactly sure what the designers wanted on that one. Compact Heatsinks on a light? Just... Weird.

Hm, most of what I wrote about the 181 was its design process and the rationale of exactly choosing a design like the Hornet (small engine, crit-packed chassis) for it. Didn't it make sense?

Assuming the compact heat sinks are removed, does that free up 5 tons? (1.5 tons per compact heat sink * 10 = 15; 10 single heat sinks at 1 ton each = 10 tons)

Thankfully, no. The first 10 heat sinks on any fusion-engined 'Mech are always weight free. And the -181/2 are too crit-packed to do a straight swap for SHS. One crit is occupied by two CHS, but there are only three crits left. One would be taken by one of the aforementioned HS, leaving two crits, but the engine would also only be able to hold half as many SHS as it does for CHS. That would mean four crits to be assigned, leaving two too many.

Who thought up compact heat sinks, anyway? What where they supposed to be good for?

Yeah. They've been around since the 90s and had never been used on any official unit before the HNT-181/2. And there was in-house experimentation and oh boy. Maybe the CHS's x1.5 weight thing vs the SHS was to balance it; but these days the DHS is the yardstick, so it needs to make sense in the context of that. After all, DHS also essentially double the engine's heat sink capacity in a way. Having what are SHS at 1.5x the weight of DHS is just nuts.

I swear 3150 NTNU will see RS in one way or another this year. When it does, it'll have doubled the CHS chassis, but I'm afraid that already means most if not all their "potential" has then already been developed.

[Getz]

I've found the Hornet is one the only cannon designs to get good use out of a 1 ton gyro - and that's the real reason you save so much weight by dropping from a 120 to 100 rated engine.  Additionally, because Gyros are made of of pixie dust and unobtanium, you save a significant amount of cold had cash from the downgrade too.  I've always imagined that the average Merc company would like the Hornet because the kind of capabilities you get for that little coin would have to be attractive when making up the numbers - you can buy a lance of Hornets for the cost of just one of the 55/60 ton mechs from TRO3025 with a similar speed.

I'm quite of a fan of the Hornet on account of it's extreme cheapness.  Whatever metric you're balancing your forces by - tonnage, Bv or C-bills - the Hornet probably gives you the best bang per buck of the cheap, filler units.  Would I like a bigger, better mech?  Sure, but when you've only got 20 tons/about 600 Bv/1.5 million C-bills left and you don't have a pressing need to go faster the 84 km/h, the Hornet is the automatic choice.  It's just a shame it doesn't have a decent anti-infantry weapon to round out it's "cheap support mech" niche.

I only have one in my collection, but it sees a fair amount of use being the "fourth man" in medium/heavy lances with  5/8/x, movement profile.

[UnLimiTeD]

Yeah. They've been around since the 90s and had never been used on any official unit before the HNT-181/2. And there was in-house experimentation and oh boy. Maybe the CHS's x1.5 weight thing vs the SHS was to balance it; but these days the DHS is the yardstick, so it needs to make sense in the context of that. After all, DHS also essentially double the engine's heat sink capacity in a way. Having what are SHS at 1.5x the weight of DHS is just nuts.

Well, is there any potential chance of creating "doubles" for them as well?
Say, 1 crit, 2 sink, 2.5 tons? Then at least you'd get 10 free.

... That said, even without DHS they are really questionable. If they hadn't ever been used on an official design, why make one? Wouldn't it have been easier to just call it "obsolete" or pretend they never existed? Wouldn't have had to retcon a single unit in the latter case.

[blitzy]

<slaps forehead>

You're right, of course! So there *is* an official (though not/no longer canon) illustration of the BattleDroid-ish Hornet. Well, they differ in lots of minuate, but yeah. One visual source.

There's a mini too, or at least was.

[Hellraiser]

Does this help that image?  ;)

PRICELESS

Isn't the Hornet suppose to be a "Lemon" Mech?  Not great mech at all?
The original was never a favorite of mine (Star League version), Succession Wars version were OK, but only if you didn't mind it getting wiped or staying in the background of the Battle.

I dont' know about Lemon but the FS didn't keep it in production all the time.
And really, why would then when New Avalon was cranking out 130 Valkyries a year?
There was a Star League version?

[Hellraiser]

This one?


Looks nothing like a Falcon though.

That is the one.

Okay, not really like the "Falcon" but, more beefy than the Stinger/Wasp, which was what I was getting at & stated badly.

[Hellraiser]

I've found the Hornet is one the only cannon designs to get good use out of a 1 ton gyro - .........

Whatever metric you're balancing your forces by - tonnage, Bv or C-bills - the Hornet probably gives you the best bang per buck of the cheap, filler units.  Would I like a bigger, better mech?  Sure, but when you've only got 20 tons/about 600 Bv/1.5 million C-bills left and you don't have a pressing need to go faster the 84 km/h, the Hornet is the automatic choice.  It's just a shame it doesn't have a decent anti-infantry weapon to round out it's "cheap support mech" niche.

Completely agree, this is what I was getting at in my earlier post.
Its a great size/speed combo to get the most out of a cheap support unit.
My personal favorite is to use it as a "Security" Mech for Militias.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Seems like it'd make a great trainer for future Valk pilots too.  I could see Academy and Training Battalion units keeping a lance or two of them around.

[Wrangler]

And really, why would then when New Avalon was cranking out 130 Valkyries a year?
There was a Star League version?

Well, Valkyries production line was kinda iffy, since Corp running it wasn't completely sure if they could keep it going.  If the factory failed, the production would cease, possibly forever. Hornet would still be buildable on production scale.  Possibly trying rework it into more usable machine.

I was mistaken it having a Star League tech version. I honestly though it got one from Operation Klondie but it didn't.  My bad. :/

[mbear]

Thankfully, no. The first 10 heat sinks on any fusion-engined 'Mech are always weight free. And the -181/2 are too crit-packed to do a straight swap for SHS. One crit is occupied by two CHS, but there are only three crits left. One would be taken by one of the aforementioned HS, leaving two crits, but the engine would also only be able to hold half as many SHS as it does for CHS. That would mean four crits to be assigned, leaving two too many.

Although Light Ferro-Fibrous might solve that problem. Hmmm.