Returning player rules question.

[greasyspoon]

OK played a good about back in high school 20-25 years ago.  A few year back started playing alpha strike and got back in.  Now I wanting to Classic battle tech again but I am confused on the rules of some weapons.
I have the Total Warfare PDF and Battlemech manual.  We will be playing the sword and dragon book.  I am good on most everything but the LB 20-X AC, and Autocannon/20 (using the  two 20’s as example)

1st general how are Autocannon’s and LB X different?  Page 98 of the BMM the rule difference is LB-X is Cluster munitions Only.  So how is a Autocannon with cluster munitions different?

2nd question.  I use the LB 20-X AC with cluster munitions, I hit and roll on cluster table and get 15 hits, do I do damage 1 point 15 times (rolling to hit localtion) or like missiles 5 points of damage 3 times)
3rd question.  I use the LB 20-X AC and I do not use cluster munitions how much damage do I do and how do I do it?
Thanks

[Mauler]

The Autocannon/20, the Ultra Autocannon/20 and the LB 20-X AC are different weapons systems.

With the Ultra AC20, you have the option of firing a single round or two rounds of ammo in a single round of combat.  Note that the standard AC20 can only fire one round of ammo in a single round of combat.  If you shoot two rounds you have a chance to jam the weapon.  Shooting two rounds of ammo results in twice the weapon heat.   I will not cover jamming rules in this reply.  If you hit with the Ultra AC20 while shooting two rounds, you need to roll an 8 or higher for both rounds to hit the target.  Each 20 point damage group is rolled individually.  All 20 points for a AC20 hit goes into one hit location on your enemy.

With the LB 20-X AC you must declare at the start of the scenario which ammo you are going to carry.  It can be slug or cluster and must be managed in full ton increments.  In combat, if you shoot the slug ammo and hit, all 20 points of damage goes into one hit location on your enemy.  If you shoot the cluster ammo, you roll on the cluster hit table and each point of damage is rolled separately to determine the hit location on your enemy.  Thus, using your example, if you roll a 15 on the cluster hits table, you roll one point of damage 15 times to determine the hit locations for the damage.

[BairdEC]

The rules for weapon and ammo types are on pp96-97 in the Battlemech Manual.  ACs are on pp98-99.

[Paul]

So how is a Autocannon with cluster munitions different?

A regular Autocannon cannot use LBX Cluster ammo. Beyond that, LBX cannons are 1 ton lighter, so that's another small benefit.

Most people wait for an enemy to have at least 1 location without any armor before they switch to Cluster ammo, hoping that one of the damage pellets finds that location for a critical hit. Sometimes, you use Cluster ammo earlier, to get the -1 to-hit benefit.
In the case of the LBX20, you could use Cluster ammo exclusively; you'll get 12 locations on average, so a few turns of that, the odds of finding a Head hit are pretty good.

It is a lot of work though. Some people use small clear tackle boxes, placing 2 small dice in each compartment. You shake that, and you have some 15-18 results.
I hate em, because you have to shake em pretty good to get them to roll, and they're super loud. I also don't feel they really save you a lot of time. I generally avoid the LBX20 as a result, just slows things down. The benefit in larger games also reduces, since in a company on company fight, you're getting so many individual hits on a target, you're either outright killing it, or getting a bunch of critical hits anyway.

But that's me: if you're having fun, you should use em all the time!
There's a Kodiak variant that has 2 of the things!


Example of such a box:
https://www.codpaddlesports.com/products/tackle-box

[greasyspoon]

Thanks for the info it helps.  Thanks for the rules page number.  I had read them but the rules are pretty thin with no examples. 

20 points of damage with the slug is pretty nasty. Pretty much a one hit wonder.  Is there a website or book that gives examples of each weapons system.  I might load up mega mek I think it shows the rows.

Any more info would be nice.

[Paul]

Is there a website or book that gives examples of each weapons system. 

The box set rule books have a lot of the basics detailed out extensively.
Beyond that, it tends to just modify things. IE Pulse lasers: just like regular lasers, but you get a -2 to-hit bonus.

[guardiandashi]

OK played a good about back in high school 20-25 years ago.  A few year back started playing alpha strike and got back in.  Now I wanting to Classic battle tech again but I am confused on the rules of some weapons.
I have the Total Warfare PDF and Battlemech manual.  We will be playing the sword and dragon book.  I am good on most everything but the LB 20-X AC, and Autocannon/20 (using the  two 20’s as example)

1st general how are Autocannon’s and LB X different?  Page 98 of the BMM the rule difference is LB-X is Cluster munitions Only.  So how is a Autocannon with cluster munitions different?

2nd question.  I use the LB 20-X AC with cluster munitions, I hit and roll on cluster table and get 15 hits, do I do damage 1 point 15 times (rolling to hit localtion) or like missiles 5 points of damage 3 times)
3rd question.  I use the LB 20-X AC and I do not use cluster munitions how much damage do I do and how do I do it?
Thanks

A quick summary.
standard autocannon fire 1 shot/round, limited special ammo may be available, ap rounds, "smart rounds" that increase accuracy by reducing target movement, etc.  most of these special rounds are at 1/2 shots/ton

ultra autocannon fire normally, no special ammo exists except dedicated "ultra" ammo, special rules allow rapid fire, 2 shots/turn

lbx cannons, have standard and cluster rounds.  I tend to think of them as slug, and shot rounds for a shotgun.

lasers:
standard, basic lasers
er lasers, extended range at the cost of extra heat.
pulse lasers, IS shorter range, clan slightly extended range.  bonus accuracy typically somewhat heavier than standard lasers

ppc's
standard
light
heavy
er version
snub nosed

missiles
short ranged
long range
streak (don't fire unless they lock if they lock they all hit) see special rules for effects of ECM, and ams
MRM Medium Range missiles tend to be large racks, less accurate
MML multi-missile launchers, tend to be small and heavy, but can fire short or long range missiles.

additional ballistic weapons
Gauss rifles
light gauss
heavy gauss
HAG (Hyper Assault Gauss)

there are other special case weapons.
TAG Target Acquisition Gear. basically "paint" a target, tag supporting weapons and ammo, get hit adjustments
Narc Beacons, accuracy bonus on missile hit table for supported ammo

there are more but that is a basic summary

[mbear]

1st general how are Autocannon’s and LB X different?  Page 98 of the BMM the rule difference is LB-X is Cluster munitions Only.  So how is a Autocannon with cluster munitions different?

Already answered, but the LBX autocannon can use cluster rounds or solid shot rounds. Cluster rounds are giant shotgun shells, solid shot rounds are just like the AC rounds you're used to, inflicting 2/5/10/20 points of damage to a single location.

2nd question.  I use the LB 20-X AC with cluster munitions, I hit and roll on cluster table and get 15 hits, do I do damage 1 point 15 times (rolling to hit localtion) or like missiles 5 points of damage 3 times)

You roll 15 hit locations and inflict 1 point of damage to each location.

3rd question.  I use the LB 20-X AC and I do not use cluster munitions how much damage do I do and how do I do it?

You treat the slug rounds as a single AC shot that does 20 points of damage. You roll the normal damage location, just like you would for a PPC or laser.

[Colt Ward]

One other thing I will note is that usually both the Ultra and LBX versions of a AC will have greater ranges than the standard version.

FREX, the AC/10 has a max range of 15 while the Ultra & LBX versions have a max range of 18, extending each bracket 1 hex so instead of 5/10/15 its 6/12/18.

For the LB-20X another advantage besides the cluster and being lighter is it has further range even if you only use slug.  The AC/20 has a max range of 9 while the LB-20X has a range of 12 . . . so even if you only ever fire slug, you can put those 20 point hits out further.  The Ultra model only reaches out to 10 hexes.

One other thing is that you do not get a -1 to hit from Targeting Computers if you are using cluster from the LBX.

While you are using BMM, and not sure if you will ever face it . . . but LBX also get a benefit when firing cluster against anything that flies (VTOL, ConvFighters, AeroSFighters, Small Craft or WiGE) b/c it has a flak bonus.  LBX weapons are also good for taking on ground vehicles.

[Nastyogre]

LBX are also phenomenal at producing "through armor" criticals. So they hit heads and get the special critical result as reliably as anything. If a 2 is a crit and 12 is the head (I think that's the table) A 2.8% chance fora 2 or 12, 5.6% chance for either one on any given location hit roll. Just about a 1 in 18 chance to produce one of those two results. I can't tell you how many times I've gunned down an enemy with an LB 10X and 20X are just that much better. Not with damage, but just the head shots and crits.

They are vicious on vehicles and VTOLs too. People dog on AC's. the 10X and 20X are really quite good. Range, lighter and a firing mode that can only be matched by large numbers of SRM's. (barring some sort of odd weapons like MRM's and HAG's) Acting in concert with a big hole puncher or some LRM's to thin down armor, no single weapon is going to cripple an opponent better.

I've never been a big fan of Ultra's I don't dig the jam and burning 2 rounds of ammo with double the heat to only have that 2nd round hit 40% of the time? No thanks. Ultra's would be fixed if that 2nd round always hit or only rarely missed. The chance to jam would be worth it.

If you are playing later eras, check out the Rotary 2's and 5's. Nice little guns. (ok they are big) and the Light Autocannons. The  2 and 5 are lighter and better to use specialist ammo. (Precision, armor piercing) LAC 5's with Prex (precision) are just death to light mechs and vees.

[MarauderD]

I agree that the LBX10 is a really useful and flexible weapon.  I'm partial to RACs as well, but if you have a Hellbie dice day that can be just as frustrating as they can be fun when they Jam on a 2 and then you keep failing your unjamming roll.....