VTOLs: Worth it?

[Simon Landmine]

Glad that the two who read the rules are starting to get the hang of things!

[OatsAndHall]

Glad that the two who read the rules are starting to get the hang of things!

Yeah, they were more up to snuff this week which was certainly nice. They have a long way to go but this was an excellent step in the right direction.  And they were more open to chatting about what went well and what didn't after the game. Most likely due to the fact that they didn't lose as badly as they normally do.

[CVB]

Don't forget to give positive feedback for their behaviour change (you probably did already, just in case  :) ).

[Simon Landmine]

Don't forget to give positive feedback for their behaviour change (you probably did already, just in case  :) ).

Yep, this helps! :-)

[OatsAndHall]

Don't forget to give positive feedback for their behaviour change (you probably did already, just in case  :) ).

I thanked all of them for reading up on the rules and was quick to point out their positive change in tactics with regards to the VTOLs.

[Col Toda]

The VTOL really evolves in the game . The heavy Kamakuri armed with a PPC and 2 Thunderbolt 10s is nice as is the one sports an improved Heavy Gauss Rifle.

[OatsAndHall]

The VTOL really evolves in the game . The heavy Kamakuri armed with a PPC and 2 Thunderbolt 10s is nice as is the one sports an improved Heavy Gauss Rifle.

That is what I am finding as well, especially as I've become more comfortable fielding them. I've been bolder with how I play them and have typically been happy with the results. Depending on the map this weekend, I'm going to be much more aggressive with whatever lance I put on the table. Aggressive flanking maneuvers, bringing them in as close as I can with cover and lay down a barrage. 

[Colt Ward]

Well, he is talking about a superheavy VTOL that become standard/available by the Dark Age Era . . . takes them up to 50 or 55 tons IIRC.

[kaliban]

That is what I am finding as well, especially as I've become more comfortable fielding them. I've been bolder with how I play them and have typically been happy with the results. Depending on the map this weekend, I'm going to be much more aggressive with whatever lance I put on the table. Aggressive flanking maneuvers, bringing them in as close as I can with cover and lay down a barrage.

in limited numbers they are fun. In large swarms they may ruin the fun, as I experienced myself.

Most obvious use is with long range weapons or even indirect fire, but I also like to use them in a very aggressive manner with short range weapons against slow assault mechs making pincer moves and encircling the opposing force.

Not long ago, I read a book about the US Tank Destroyer Battalions of the WWII - fast, light armored but with lots of firepower. Lances of VTOLs can do that in some way but you need very large numbers to match the BV of Battlemech lances and, at this point, things get broken in Battletech and you don't know if it worked so well because you used VTOLs or just because you have numeric advantage.

[Fortyone]

in limited numbers they are fun. In large swarms they may ruin the fun, as I experienced myself.

Most obvious use is with long range weapons or even indirect fire, but I also like to use them in a very aggressive manner with short range weapons against slow assault mechs making pincer moves and encircling the opposing force.

Not long ago, I read a book about the US Tank Destroyer Battalions of the WWII - fast, light armored but with lots of firepower. Lances of VTOLs can do that in some way but you need very large numbers to match the BV of Battlemech lances and, at this point, things get broken in Battletech and you don't know if it worked so well because you used VTOLs or just because you have numeric advantage.

I have no doubt that a VTOL swarm would be better than a Locust swarm. Really all you are doing with VTOLs is adding another modifier, thus making you even harder to hit. The problem with that is you become "That Guy."

I suppose if you really wanted to do it and didn't want to be so rage inducing, you could go for the more expensive units like Balacs. You would probably not outnumber your opponent at that point but you would still fly circles around them.

Definitely wouldn't recommend it in a campaign because you might get a tactical victory while getting devastated strategically.

[Daryk]

Campaign play mitigates all kinds of bad behavior at the table.

[Fortyone]

Campaign play mitigates all kinds of bad behavior at the table.

So does a tire iron to the knee in the parking lot. 😅

[Daryk]

Yes, yes, that too.  But campaign play generally doesn't involve criminal charges...  ^-^

[Cannonshop]

Yes, yes, that too.  But campaign play generally doesn't involve criminal charges...  ^-^

or real-world lawsuits that you will lose after (or even while) serving your time for the battery.

That said, Oats! look up the fluff text for the Warrior H-7 from TRO 3026, you might try actually running the goat path situation described as a scenario-it's by nature BV unbalanced, with equal numbers of units, but one player is running 'mechs in the light-to-medium range and the other is running a company (12) of VTOLs on mountainous terrain.  (I suggest giving the 'mech player about a 50-75% higher BV to start with).

It's one of my 'testing scenarios'.  If a VTOL design out of the book can't pass the Goat path test (meaning it can't win when you swap sides), then it's probably a bad unit or poorly considered design and shouldn't be run out in general play unless you need a bigger handicap.

[OatsAndHall]

in limited numbers they are fun. In large swarms they may ruin the fun, as I experienced myself.

Most obvious use is with long range weapons or even indirect fire, but I also like to use them in a very aggressive manner with short range weapons against slow assault mechs making pincer moves and encircling the opposing force.

Not long ago, I read a book about the US Tank Destroyer Battalions of the WWII - fast, light armored but with lots of firepower. Lances of VTOLs can do that in some way but you need very large numbers to match the BV of Battlemech lances and, at this point, things get broken in Battletech and you don't know if it worked so well because you used VTOLs or just because you have numeric advantage.

I won't play with more than a lance/star or two of them depending on the game. That would detract from the enjoyment and bog down the game play significantly. I can see guys getting a bit annoyed with just five VTOLs as times which I understand; the side-slip rolls get tedious. I play with a piloting skill of 3 across the board but I still have to roll those every time I flank turn (which I do a lot of).  I had fun with six Balacs this weekend. I moved them as pairs around the map; closed in with one while the other backed it from medium range. I raised a lot of hell; they couldn't flank my aggressive VTOLs without giving their back to another one.

Yes, in the history of tank warfare, weaker units with a numerical advantage have typically won the battle. From the European Theater in WW2 all the way up to the Arab-Israeli Wars, tankers that took advantage of mobility won the day. The German Tiger was a marvel of engineering for it's time and could put a round right through a Sherman. But... One of them couldn't handle three-four well trained Sherman crews who flanked and put rounds in it's side and rear. The same went for the Russian T-34; the Panther and Tiger were superior tanks on the Eastern Front but there were just more Rusky tanks on the field.  Both the Americans, Canadians, British and Russians became proficient at putting smoke rounds right in the face of German tank units and then flanking.