Soliciting opinions on conventional fighter speed.

[Primus203]

So through various conversations and design attempts one thing that comes up again and again is that conventional fighters cannot ever hope to catch aerospace fighters. Even if you make a sprint design the aerospace fighter can ascend to a map higher than the conventional can follow.

So if this is already the case and the conventional fighter already can use the aerospace map one mapsheet per mp is there any reason to take the weight and money cost of a 5/8 engine over a 3/5 engine.

In your opinion what is the minimum practical speed for a conventional fighter.

[Hellraiser]

ABSOLUTELY.

Your never going to catch a LIGHT ASF true.

But you can totally catch the typical MEDIUM ASF, and you WANT to be able to outmaneuver a MEDIUM ASF since it can paste you in 1 pass.

I would say 7/11 is the MINIMUM speed for a Conventional Fighter.   8/12 Preferred.

There is a reason my #1 Conventional is the Light Fighter "Owl" Steiner variant with the MLs.

Everything else gets pasted the minute something the size of a Corsair flies through.

At least the Light CF can RUN AWAY.

Nothing escapes a Seydlitz so don't bother trying.

[DevianID]

So I like the boeing jump bomber with its 9/14 a LOT.  Its useful with 4 rockets as an 8/12 interceptor, and of course as a tactical bomber its great.  Its just a useful, cheap, quick unit.

SI is a limiting factor on the slower fighters, as 50 tons mean unlike the brick-y assault aerospace fighters that get 10 SI on a 6/9 or 5/8 thrust, a 50 ton mechbuster can spend 5 thrust safely, thats it.  So if you arnt going fast, but are heavy, it makes sense to be slow.  Like, 3/5 at 50 tons as a cargo plane/cruise missile plane would be sweet, as you have standoff weapons... 5/8 speed on a 50 tonner is only useful in a 'redundant engine' kind of way for taking battle damage.

The other thing is if you play with the radar map, speed 10 is a critical break point.  So, like the Light Strike Fighter hellraiser mentioned, a 10/15 conventional, is really important as part of an interceptor fleet to double move on the strategic radar map, or fly over the ground map each turn providing AA.

[Daryk]

More thrust also allows more external stores.

[Goose]

So I like the boeing jump bomber with its 9/14 a LOT.  Its useful with 4 rockets as an 8/12 interceptor …

Seems to me conventionals need 8 thrust to move around on the high altitude map, without accidentally changing altitude, thus avoiding reentry burn blemishes.

I don't have a good read on what such speed might mean on the low altitude map …

[Primus203]

Well this design is what I was thinking about when I mentioned lower speed.

Big Iron- Built in the vein of the Mechbuster to take care of it's greatest weakness the abysmal range of the AC-20. To accomplish this it instead mounts an Long Tom Artillery Cannon and 2 tons of ammo. The extra six tons needed for this require numerous design compromises. Chief among these is speed of 3/5 to the mechbusters 5/8. It is similar in most other respects such as tonnage and armor. Has VSTOL capability which the mechbuster lacks as well as 5 chaff pods for defense.

Originally I attempted to keep 5/8 speed but that proved impossible with the weight of it's armament. 4/6 was possible but I had to drop chaff pods which I considered potentially more useful than one more mp.

Code: [Select]

Heavy Conventional Aero Big Iron

Mass: 50 tons
Frame: Unknown
Power Plant: 150 ICE
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 Long Tom Cannon
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3080
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-E-E
Cost: 1,166,625 C-bills

Type: Heavy Conventional Aero
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: 642

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        150 ICE                11
Safe Thrust: 3
Max Thrust: 5
Structural Integrity:         0                       
VSTOL Equipment:                                    2.5
Heat Sinks:                   10                      0
Fuel:                         240                   1.5
Cockpit                                               5
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    18   
     Wings                 10/10   
     Aft                     10   


Weapons
and Ammo                    Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Long Tom Cannon               NOS       20.0     20    20   20   20    0 
Long Tom Cannon Ammo (10)     FSLG      2.0      -      -    -    -    - 
5 Chaff Pod                   FSLG      5.0      -      -    -    -    -  So is this too slow or is the cannon standoff enough.

[Daryk]

It will need protection from wingmen, but the Cannon is useful.

[Hellraiser]

Isn't a LongTom Cannon still Artillery?

I mean its not THE artillery piece version of the LT, but is the weapon class the same?

I only ask because Aero Units can not fire Artillery while Airborne.

[Daryk]

Nope, it's not "Artillery".  Aero can use them just fine.

[DevianID]

In air to air it's treated like an autocannon/ballistic right?  Its only versus ground strikes you get the AE advantage.  Still, AE is amazing, so a mechbuster delivering 20 AE damage ground strikes to evaporate infantry would be very useful, as you have a much longer endurance then with bomb trucks.  (Unless you use the internal bomb bay quirk, which is like cheating haha).

[Daryk]

Yep, though I think 5 AOE shots per ton is better than a bomb bay. ;)

[Hellraiser]

Nope, it's not "Artillery".  Aero can use them just fine.

So its a cannon, not a missile, BUT it fires Indirectly, in an Arc.....and it has Artillery in the name LTAC.......... but its NOT artillery.

Yep, that, makes total 100% logical sense.   

[Daryk]

It can also fire directly, so the cannon part is correct... ;)

[Mechanis]

So its a cannon, not a missile, BUT it fires Indirectly, in an Arc.....and it has Artillery in the name LTAC.......... but its NOT artillery.

Yep, that, makes total 100% logical sense.   

Basically, full Artillery are, well, traditional "shoot  the guy a couple kilometers away" long barreled rifles. Cannons are snub versions thereof and originally used the same ammo (this has now been changed with the things getting left out of the artillery buff and later being denied alt munitions) but the Cannon types are specifically not Artillery *mechanically*. this is a case of Legal Wording/Rules Specific Terminology and a legacy issue caused by gradual drift from the original implementation.

[DOC_Agren]

I had not thought about chaff pods on fighters.. 

Now I disagree you can intercept with conventional but unless you bring a swarm (Group or more) vrs a Flight (2) Aerospace you are not going to come out ahead..

Sluagh Strike Fighter and the Striking Cobra
can close and engage if they get the right vectors, but in anything less massive numbers it will be like the rumor F22 vrs anything else flying match up.   They flying until they die or the aerospace fighter takes off to somewhere else.