Tell me about... the Icestorm

[Alex Keller]

I've got an Icestorm as part of my Ice Hellion star and I'd like some advice on how to use it within the confines of zellbrigen.  That is, what are some of the best ways to use it in a duel against a clan opponent?

My first thought is to target slower mechs (preferably those with little armor) and just run like hell at long or extreme range and hope you connect with the ER Medium Laser and wear an opponent down over time.  As exhausting as that sounds... I can't think of a better way to utilize the Icestorm without risking catastrophic damage. 

Any ideas?

What are good opponents to pick on? 

Has anyone had success using the Icestorm?  In what way?

Thanks for your help.

[Headshot]

That is, what are some of the best ways to use it in a duel against a clan opponent?

Just don't.
Seriously, its a second line scout with the guns and armor of a vintage Wasp. I wouldn't even duel IS Lights with it.
Sure, the ER-ML is a pocket LL, but still, don't.
Zip around, be a nuisance, use that TAG (or the threat of it), but don't even think about a honorable one-on-one duel.
There's a reason that thing is an Ice Hellion Mech.
And why the other Clans consider the Ice Hellions interpretion of zellbrigen somewhat dubious.

[Demos]

A good opponent to pick on is either a Firemoth (to casue significant damage with a laser hit) or a maybe a Kit Fox (relatively thinly armored, relatively slow).

There is a reason for the pack mentality of the Hellions with such mech designs...  ::)

[Alex Keller]

Okay, so I can see it's going to be difficult using the Icestorm.  What about employing it to kill a point of Elementals?  I'd imagine it would be difficult for elementals to hit.

[Wolf72]

if they manage a successful SRM barrage or some hits with their small lasers ... you're toast.

[Alex Keller]

Yes, I understand that the Icestorm needs to avoid being hit by... anything really.  I'm just looking for anyone who's had some success with this design.  Maybe I'll check out the Ice Hellion thread (if there is one).  Thanks for all your replies, still looking for more advice if you've got it.

[Iron Mongoose]

If you can find a mech with low accuracy, either due to short ranges (an old Hunchback would be perfect) low skill (green troops are easy pray, or IS regulars) or problematic weapons (some mix of MRMs and HLs is a good start [I actualy did a mech like that once, and it wasn't as bad as it sounds]) you can just run circles around it forever untill your ML scores a telling hit.  It is after all really, really fast, so it can dictate the range and pace of pretty much any engagment, and if the terrain is right and there's a good mix of cover and room to run you can do a lot to make up for your lack of armor.  Given enough time, you can pull out a win.

The key problem is, an ER ML hasn't got enough range to keep Clan opponent at bay.  Since most likely opponents can hit at least 5/8, if the Icestorm is in range its opponent can most likely close into medium range, or else fall back out of ER ML range, if they win int.  A mech with big guns (and what Clan mech lacks them?) will be able to get into short range some times, and that's just the end for an Icestorm.

Plus, the Clans have a lot of access to good accuracy, through skill, pulse lasers, TCs, and just generaly good range (an ER LL is automaticly in medium range if the ER ML is in range at all, and its only seven hexes to short range).  The only mechs that don't have thouse things tend to have the speed to chance the squerly bugger down and take it to task (I'd actualy never take one against a Fire Moth, since the Moth can easily close the range up and demonstrate exactly how many more guns it has in a very in your face way). 

Some of the old 3060 mechs are suitably slow, as are some (but hardly all, or even most) old SL era mechs, which are probably best bets.

Honestly, I'd take a hard look at Pack Zell if I was forced to make much use of this thing.

[Alex Keller]

Iron Mongoose - Most helpful.  Thank you.

I've only played Ice Hellions once before and I had a similar situation where my damaged Viper B was taking on a Highlander IIC.  The Viper B was down to just two Small Pulse Lasers and a Flamer.  Every time I tried to get close I risked getting blasted by the tremendous firepower of the Highlander.  Eventually, the Highlander player ran out of LRM, Gauss and SRM ammo and the fight was more even as I could get much better to-hit numbers with my movement.  I was able to gain a victory in the end more because of luck and patience then anything else.   

TRO: 3060 makes a great deal about the unique or special role that the Icestorm plays as a recon 'Mech or spotter for other 'Mechs, presumably artillery type 'Mechs.  What would be some good Ice Hellion mechs to pair with the Icestorm?

[RichQ03]

Hellion, Fire Moth, Mist Lynx, Incubus, Hankyu, Snow Fox, Piranha, Phantom...

And if you wanted some extra firepower, you could always add a Black Lanner.

Pretty much anything small and fast you could use (or make an excuse to use) in a Hellion Star...all the above are at least 7/11.

[StCptMara]

How do you use a Ice Storm under Zellbriggen? Well..first your WHOLE star attacks a given 'mech, weakening it. Then, you bid off weapons...
That is how the Hellions fight under Zellbrigen, anyway...

[Alex Keller]

Re: Hellion Zellbrigen
Interesting...  So how do most clan players respond to a Hellion pack attack?  Doesn't that break Zellbrigen?

Re: Hellion Star

My Hellion star currently consists of a Black Lanner, Wolf Hunter/Ice Ferret, two Hellions and the Icestorm.  With such starmates, how can I use the Icestorm effectively against a typical Jade Falcon star? (Summoners, Hellbringers, Kit Foxes)

[Arkansas Warrior]

You could use it against tanks.  The especially bad P/G skills of Clan tankers should help you not get hit back, and Clan tanks do tend to be armored in a composite of aluminum foil and balsa wood.

[Hellraiser]

Icestorm + Zellbrigen ??


Easy,  Tanks aren't considered in Zell, they are free to shoot at, ergo, they are free to shoot you.

So my Icestorm challenges you do a duel, ignore the star of Hueys back there, they are not worth your attention.............oh..........and prepare to fight in the shade   >:D

[Alex Keller]

Interesting.  I wasn't aware that the Hellions used vehicles like that.

[Iron Mongoose]

I don't know how many actual Huey's they have, but they do have significant numbers of Flurry units, which are all conventional units, and can very well be called on to support mech forces.  A few Icestorms running interferance for a star or two of armor or infantry is actualy very plasuable for a Hellion unit (though less so for the sort of front line unit that would also have the omnis you listed).

As for pack zell, in that tactic your whole star (or even your star and a whole second star) would go in and rough up the Jade Falcon star, or elements of it, to the point where select mechs had been damaged to the point where a light mech could take it (much of the armor gone, maybe even a few guns).  Then the Hellions fall back and big to engage each mech.  So the Icestorm might bid "I can take that Summoner that's had its arms shot off with only my SRMs" and likely it would win and have to march out and challanged that Summoner to a dual and either win or lose 'honorably' from that point on.

Some Clans and some players are ok with that.  A Falcon Star of heavies and kit foxes is a lot heavier and a lot higher in power and in BV than a Hellion star like the one you mentioned, so a bit of a tussle before the duals start more eroads the existing advantage, rather than truely putting the Falcons at a disadvantage.  If you know your fighting Hellions, then its hardly a supprise, and you can be ready for that sort of BS.  To me, its a fun way to let the Hellions actualy be Hellions and use their light mechs, rather than forcing them to be like everyone else.

But, some Clans IC and some players OOC can't stand it, and if the Hellions try something like that the gloves just come off and its on.  The Hellions can sometimes still either pull out a win (especaly if they've got a second star on hand) or else just fall back (they're nearly always faster then their opponents, and if not they ususaly don't need gimicks since they're light mech fighting pros).  Just depends on the opponent, the unit, the situation (what is at stake?) and of course the individual player you're actualy facing, who may have a very subtle take on their Clans' oppinions about the matter, or may not be very aware of it and regard it as just a crock of shit.  That I can't really help you with, other than to say take a copy of the Clan Field Manuals if you can get them to show your point.

[Alex Keller]

Good advice.  I don't often play clan, but I've been curious about how the Hellions operate in the game and what is general acceptable behavior/tactics from a Hellion player.  The Icestorm has helped me out in that way.  Thank you.