Author Topic: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!  (Read 1105 times)

pokefan548

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New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« on: 22 February 2023, 09:36:41 »
I've recently come to appreciate the Bulldog Medium Tank's LRM variant as a way to get some LRMs on the field in a Succession Wars-era force. It's a bit faster, a bit sturdier, and a bit more self-defensible than an LRM Carrier, not to mention a bit cheaper, which I'd say generally makes up for cutting the LRM-age by a third. More importantly, it has, of course, almost perfect parts commonality with the stock Bulldog, which to my mind is the perfect trooper tank and deserves a spot in any sizeable force—particularly a force on a budget. That in mind, I couldn't help but notice that the new ERLL variant of the Bulldog only has direct-fire variants based on it. I've decided to solve this myself, taking a cue from the recent Manticore update.

(Click to view at full-size)


Upsides: ERLL Bulldogs can now be effectively supported by a missile boat that clusters better and is more effective at close range than its predecessor. While the LRM Bulldog already had enough bite for a couple of them to effectively scare off flanking bug 'Mechs, a lance of these boys, spread out a little bit, is exceptionally difficult for just about any light 'Mech and quite a few lower-medium 'Mechs to safely approach.

Downsides: BV-wise, this is the most expensive Bulldog variant to date, just over 10% more expensive than the Kuritan Chemical variant, and nearly 50% more expensive than its predecessor. The NLRM, Artemis, and heavier turret don't do any favors for the C-Bill cost either, pushing it nearly 600,000 C-Bills past the ERLL variant.
« Last Edit: 22 February 2023, 09:46:23 by pokefan548 »
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Daryk

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #1 on: 22 February 2023, 19:28:54 »
How's it look with the Extended LRMs? ???

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #2 on: 22 February 2023, 20:52:51 »
You can drop to ELRM15 for no change in weight or ammo. Both launchers are 12 tons
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garhkal

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #3 on: 22 February 2023, 21:02:19 »
They seemed Enhanced LRMs.  Not extended range ones.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #4 on: 22 February 2023, 21:11:28 »
The OP was NLRM, I was responding to the question about turning it into a eLRM carrier
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Daryk

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #5 on: 22 February 2023, 22:15:39 »
You can drop to ELRM15 for no change in weight or ammo. Both launchers are 12 tons
Thanks!  :thumbsup:

pokefan548

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #6 on: 22 February 2023, 22:42:22 »
I avoided the ELRMs due to cost, tonnage, lack of alternate munitions or Artemis, and most of all that awful minimum range. ELRMs are a specialty tool, NLRMs are meant to be the modern LRM system for the modern upgrade variant. Besides, I wanted to follow the original's template as closely as possible: a 20-rack with 18 rounds of ammo replacing the laser.

Having run it in MegaMek, it's actually pretty handy; no one expects Inner Sphere LRM boats to actually do work in a brawl. Is it worth more than a stock Manticore and nearly as much as the XL Manticore? Eh, probably not, but it's not bad.
« Last Edit: 22 February 2023, 22:51:42 by pokefan548 »
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acksed

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #7 on: 17 March 2023, 08:11:46 »
Speaking of Extended LRMs, the range-band of Snub-nose PPCs pairs very well with them. It needs a fusion reactor, though:

Code: [Select]
Bulldog "Sniper"

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 3132
Dry Cost: 3,172,000 C-Bills
Total Cost: 3,277,250 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,040

Power Plant:  240 Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Extended LRM-15
    1  Snub-Nose PPC
    2  Light Machine Guns
    1 Unknown CASE

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      30 points                6.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                240                      17.50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    2.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 168                  8.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     40       
                                          Left/Right   32/32       
                                              Turret     32       
                                                Rear     32       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Light Machine Guns                         FR        0         2         1.00
Snub-Nose PPC                                T         10        1         6.00
Extended LRM-15                              T         8         1        12.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@ELRM-15 (18)                                BD        -         0         3.00
@LMG (1/2) (100)                             BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 10
4t         2       2       1       0      3     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: CASE, TUR(2/2/1), IF 1
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Daryk

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #8 on: 17 March 2023, 17:15:16 »
Nice work!  :thumbsup:

Sabelkatten

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #9 on: 17 March 2023, 18:32:06 »
While I applaud making such true-to-type upgrade this really drives home just how superior MMLs are. 24 tons gives you 3 Artemis'd MML7s, lots of ammo, and still tonnage left over. :(

Daryk

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #10 on: 17 March 2023, 18:41:59 »
True, but with rather less maximum range...  ^-^

Sabelkatten

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #11 on: 18 March 2023, 07:06:37 »
NLRMs have the same maximum range as standard LRMs AFAIK?

I should have made clear I didn't compare MMLs to ELRMs, that's a whole different game! :D

Daryk

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #12 on: 18 March 2023, 07:42:31 »
Yep, that's right.  I thought we were talking about Es, not Ns...

Sabelkatten

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #13 on: 18 March 2023, 18:36:19 »
Thinking of ELRMs and the WYSIWYG idea of the OP... Stealth and ELRMs go pretty well together:

Code: [Select]
Bulldog XL

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 8,289,600 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,123

Power Plant:  240 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Vehicle Stealth Armor
Armament:
    2  Extended LRM-10s
    2  Streak SRM-4s
    1  Magshot
    1 Unknown CASE
    1  Guardian ECM Suite
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      30 points                6.00
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             240                       9.00
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    2.50
Armor:              Vehicle Stealth Armor        AV - 128                  8.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     36       
                                          Left/Right   26/26       
                                              Turret     25       
                                                Rear     15       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Magshot                                      FR        1         1         0.50
2 Streak SRM-4s                              T         6         2         6.00
2 Extended LRM-10s                           T         12        2        16.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
Guardian ECM Suite                           BD        0         1         1.50
@Streak SRM-4 (25)                           BD        -         0         1.00
@ELRM-10 (45)                                BD        -         0         5.00
@Magshot Gauss Rifle (50)                    BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 11
4t         3       3       2       0      3     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, CASE, TUR(3/3/2, IF 1/1/1), IF 1

 >:D

Daryk

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #14 on: 18 March 2023, 20:27:48 »
My thinking is that if you have Es, you don't need stealth, because range is its own protection...  8)

Retry

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #15 on: 19 March 2023, 02:29:47 »
I avoided the ELRMs due to cost, tonnage, lack of alternate munitions or Artemis, and most of all that awful minimum range. ELRMs are a specialty tool, NLRMs are meant to be the modern LRM system for the modern upgrade variant. Besides, I wanted to follow the original's template as closely as possible: a 20-rack with 18 rounds of ammo replacing the laser.

Having run it in MegaMek, it's actually pretty handy; no one expects Inner Sphere LRM boats to actually do work in a brawl. Is it worth more than a stock Manticore and nearly as much as the XL Manticore? Eh, probably not, but it's not bad.
Bulldogs are probably a bit slow for putting ELRMs, so I'd agree that NLRMs are the right pick here.  Min range aside, ELRMs can get up to some shenanigans when put on a reasonably swift VTOL, especially in a C3 network...

Sabelkatten

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #16 on: 19 March 2023, 07:08:33 »
My thinking is that if you have Es, you don't need stealth, because range is its own protection...  8)
Long range, yes. But the long range of ELRMs is mostly a bonus - you have a MEDIUM range of 22 hexes! When the clanner brings you into LPL range he's got a +2 TN for stealth while you're 2 hexes inside your medium range!

Daryk

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Re: New-gen Bulldogs, new-gen LRMs!
« Reply #17 on: 19 March 2023, 07:37:05 »
Good point!  :thumbsup:

 

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