Feedback - Special Pilot Abilities

[General308]

to me all these type of things have to direct effect BV or you can not get a balanced game.

[niall78]

to me all these type of things have to direct effect BV or you can not get a balanced game.

I'd agree with you 100%.

I view SPAs like the hundreds of Tac-Ops optional rules. They can add much flavour, maybe extra 'realism', seem like commonsense, be more 'fun', etc but they fundamentally break the BV system.

Great to have them by the way. Things like these rock for longterm campaign play, role-playing and veteran groups that like to play their own version of the game.

They ain't for any kind of balanced PvP type game setup though. You are straight into fudging the BV system when SPAs or many Optional rules hit the table.

[Daryk]

I've never bought into the BV system, but YMMV.

[SCC]

A lot of the ones I use are from Maximum Tech or lots of custom ones to 'break certain rule conditions' in a one-off fashion for fun.

I haven't really seen all that's available currently, save for what was on the pilot cards in the beginner and core game boxes. I'll have to revisit them, but I did find some a bit underwhelming.

Try again, there are no SPA like rules in Maximum Tech

[BrianDavion]

I've never bought into the BV system, but YMMV.

so.... how do you balance your games then? By tonnage?

[Daryk]

By whatever the GM decides.

[_Cactus_]

As a noob with three games of classic BT under my belt the SPAs on the cards in the force packs are useless. There are no rules or guidance for how to apply them to a force. I guess the idea is that if I take 2 points worth of SPAs my opponent can too. Having skimmed this thread I suspect they're not well balanced enough for this approach.

I haven't looked closely at the Alpha Strike rules so they might be more useable there. However I have enough 'terrain and tape measure' wargames that I'm not really interested in playing Battletech that way.

[Cyclonus13]

I find that using them with AToW, and even destiny to an extent, really helps balance the costs.
The prerequisites are what’s missing in “quick play”, and trying to assign a battle value to them is almost impossible to do.

[monbvol]

I have no issue with them in an RPG style game.  These sorts of games are less about being balanced in the first place and more about narrative.  And as others have mentioned there are means already in place at those scales to help further balance them out.

[DevianID]

As a noob with three games of classic BT under my belt the SPAs on the cards in the force packs are useless. There are no rules or guidance for how to apply them to a force.

So the cards do have some rules, but they are easy to miss.  The rules for using the cards are in the 'A game of armored combat', so if you skipped that rulebook you can miss them.  The short of it is, the side that goes first pick a card, and you get the special pilot abilities and the skills on the card, and assign it to a friendly mech.  The enemy side gets to pick a mech, and they get just the skill.  So if I pick a 3/4 pilot card with jumping jack, then my opponent gets a 3/4 pilot.  Next, the opponent selects a card, with an SPA cost equal or less then the first card.  They get that SPA and set of skills, and the first player get to upgrade a mech to just the skill.  So if I pick a 1/2 maneuvering ace, then my opponent gets a 1/2 pilot.

In this way, each side has 1 mech with upgraded special skills, and each side gets the same pilot skills.  There is some light strategy with the cards which can be fun, such as choosing a very low SPA card if you think your opponent is gunning for jumping jack for example, or gunning for the best pilot skill instead of useful SPAs cause you have a mech that you want upskilled.  So that each time you play, even with the same mechs, the battle will be different thanks to card selection and who gets first pick.

It also means that you should only have 1 unit with special abilities to keep track of per side, which is how most of campaign operations is set up.  Its only in GM'd games where you tend to see every unit with SPAs thanks to the GM's set of campaign houserules.

[Charistoph]

So the cards do have some rules, but they are easy to miss.  The rules for using the cards are in the 'A game of armored combat', so if you skipped that rulebook you can miss them.  The short of it is, the side that goes first pick a card, and you get the special pilot abilities and the skills on the card, and assign it to a friendly mech.  The enemy side gets to pick a mech, and they get just the skill.  So if I pick a 3/4 pilot card with jumping jack, then my opponent gets a 3/4 pilot.  Next, the opponent selects a card, with an SPA cost equal or less then the first card.  They get that SPA and set of skills, and the first player get to upgrade a mech to just the skill.  So if I pick a 1/2 maneuvering ace, then my opponent gets a 1/2 pilot.

In this way, each side has 1 mech with upgraded special skills, and each side gets the same pilot skills.  There is some light strategy with the cards which can be fun, such as choosing a very low SPA card if you think your opponent is gunning for jumping jack for example, or gunning for the best pilot skill instead of useful SPAs cause you have a mech that you want upskilled.  So that each time you play, even with the same mechs, the battle will be different thanks to card selection and who gets first pick.

There is nothing stating that both players use the same card.  While this is a more balanced approached, it's not what is said.

The one that I have says: "* Both MechWarrior Cards must have the same cost".  That means you can have different cards, otherwise what is the point of referencing the cost?

Furthermore, the only "cost" listed on the card is what the SPAs cost.  The change of Skills has absolutely no bearing on this because the Skills aren't given a cost.

What it effectively says is that I can have a Pilot with 2/3 stats and Jumping Jack (Cost: 2) and my opponent can have a 3/4 Pilot with Oblique Attacker and Human TRO (also Cost: 2).

So while both players using the same card is a balanced way of doing it, it's not how the AGoAC book presents using them.

[DevianID]

Yeah i didnt say both use the same card.  The other player only gets the pilot/gunnery skills of the first players card, then picks an SPA card of their own.  Both mechwarrior card's SPA cost the same, based on what the first person picked.  But both players get the gunnery and pilot skills.

[Daemion]

Try again, there are no SPA like rules in Maximum Tech

Dig out your book and go to page 45, under Advanced Abilities, and tell me what you find.

Edit: Of course, my versions is Maximum Tech: Revised edition, but I thought that had more to do with the errata at the end and point cost calculations somewhere.

[Daemion]

And for those who don't have Maximum Tech: Revised Edition, I'll provide a list of what I find there -
- Bull's-Eye Marksman
- Dodge Maneuver (M)
- Edge
- Maneuvering Ace
- Melee Specialist (M)
- Pain Resistance (M)
- Sixth Sense
- Speed Demon
- Tactical Genius
- Weapon Specialist

(M) denotes abilities that are only available to Mech Pilots.

Certainly enough to spark ones imagination, and start brainstorming home-brew notions at the time.

[abou]

I know I mentioned it earlier in regards to how confusing the rule for Dodge is written. By chance I was looking at the pilot cards in the IS Direct Fire Lance box. One of the pilots has the Dodge SPA. The three sentences on that card leave no ambiguity to how the rule works.