Bringing Back the Light Mech

[Nahuris]

The biggest problem with using Lights in later-ea games is that a small mapsheet doesn't give them enough space to get out of harm's way when the [expletive deleted] hits the fan.

I've used the venerable LCT-1V and STG-3R against more modern heavies under the right circumstances, and done reasonably well with them.  The time to use them is when the opponent is face-to-face with something else of yours, and would rather take shots at 6's to hit than 10s at something that's "harmless".  That still doesn't mean that they always survived the encounter.  They may do minimal weapon damage, but a fist to the head puts a hit on the opposing pilot regardless of whether it's done by a 20 tonner or a 100, and a kick still forces a PSR.  If you can manage to double-team or triple-team the opponent with "bugs" in the rear three hexes, that's a LOT of chances to end up on the ground, with no return shot in the phase.  Rear armor damage is something that even a lot of Assaults fear, and getting chewed from behind tends to force the opposing player to make mistakes, which your own big stuff can capitalize on.

If the larger opponent is equipped with Pulse weaponry, or a 2/3 pilot, then even speed and terrain aren't always enough.  I generally prefer to limit pilot skills in a game to at least 50% Regular, with as many Green pilots as Veteran or better, and no more than one Elite to a Company.  That way, you've got some diversity, with targets that you can pick on, and others that you quickly learn to stay away from.  An "all Elite" game essentially makes Lights relatively unplayable in any era, where speed =/= armor.

Once you add in lot's of elite pilots, then light mechs become so much fodder ----  a lot of my recent games have been combos of veteran or better pilots combined with battles in telephone booths.....

However, I have found that the veteran or better pilot, armed with a pulse boat and TC is dealable, if you use Reflec Armor. As you get into later eras, light mechs become more dependent on the advanced equipment --- In earlier time periods, there was some leeway -- a light could endanger a medium, and be a threat to a heavy, while a medium was a risk to a heavy, and could pose a threat to assaults......... but as tech went up, the ability to battle above your weight class kind of dropped off...... which leaves light mechs in a rough position, as they have always been expected to provide support against units above their own weight class. As the tech increases, the light mechs are serously going to need to utilize it, or be relegated to cannon fodder, or training useage.

I, personally prefer lights and fast mediums.... the one thing that I've always disliked is the slow moving turret fighting you see in assault mechs...... but then again, the first two mechs I ever fielded were a Stinger and a Wasp L.....

Nahuris

[MadCapellan]

In my experience, there is no problem with the current rules for Light 'Mechs that limits their utility in the Jihad era.  The real problem for Light 'Mechs is that the majority of canon Light 'Mech designs are terrible.  There are a handful of real gems like the Osiris, Talon and Duan Gung that always seem to perform well for me even in massive battles surrounded by larger machines, but it seems like the vast majority are just victims waiting to happen.  Designs like the Falcon Hawk, Raven, Battle Hawk, Valkyrie and Hammer all seem to die or be crippled from the sharpest glance.  In my opinion, if a Light 'Mech isn't at least 7/11/X and doesn't mount an ER PPC, and ER Large Laser, LRMs, TAG, a Flamer or a battery of SRMs/Medium Lasers, it doesn't have a place in my force.

[Ian Sharpe]

In my experience, there is no problem with the current rules for Light 'Mechs that limits their utility in the Jihad era.  The real problem for Light 'Mechs is that the majority of canon Light 'Mech designs are terrible.  There are a handful of real gems like the Osiris, Talon and Duan Gung that always seem to perform well for me even in massive battles surrounded by larger machines, but it seems like the vast majority are just victims waiting to happen.  Designs like the Falcon Hawk, Raven, Battle Hawk, Valkyrie and Hammer all seem to die or be crippled from the sharpest glance.  In my opinion, if a Light 'Mech isn't at least 7/11/X and doesn't mount an ER PPC, and ER Large Laser, LRMs, TAG, a Flamer or a battery of SRMs/Medium Lasers, it doesn't have a place in my force.

Always been disappointed with the Raven in the light Mech role and its low speed and the short range of NARC mean its only fair in that role.  Its an OK TAGger but with the rule change I'd rather have a multitude of other designs with real guns and TAG since both can be used in a turn. 

[Nahuris]

Always been disappointed with the Raven in the light Mech role and its low speed and the short range of NARC mean its only fair in that role.  Its an OK TAGger but with the rule change I'd rather have a multitude of other designs with real guns and TAG since both can be used in a turn.

The Raven is a 3025 design that wasn't meant to survive on advanced battlefields, and the 3050 version of electronic warfare didn't measure up to the planned standards --- read up on the "experimental" electronic warfare package they put on the Raven in 3025, and you'll find it was superior to what was finally added to the rules.

Nahuris

[Ian Sharpe]

The Raven is a 3025 design that wasn't meant to survive on advanced battlefields, and the 3050 version of electronic warfare didn't measure up to the planned standards --- read up on the "experimental" electronic warfare package they put on the Raven in 3025, and you'll find it was superior to what was finally added to the rules.

Nahuris

I can't remember any rules for it except the description in HLSB.  The tonnage is pretty accurate but it needs a lot more crits to do it in 3050 than just 2.  But whether it was intended to survive in advanced battlefields or not, it remains the IS' premier EW unit and more importantly, is on those battlefields, where it tends to fall short in anything but the ambush role.

[Negatorxx]

Light mechs are still the most BV efficient C3 spotters, and do just fine as long as there is terrain to utilize

[A. Lurker]

Light mechs are still the most BV efficient C3 spotters, and do just fine as long as there is terrain to utilize

Hm, don't get me started on the whole "by the way, C3 spotters don't need LOS to the target to help you hit it" errata bit. I've had years to in theory get used to that, and I can play with it as long as I don't think too hard about it, too...but it still makes absolutely zero sense.

And of course, as long as all your spotter needs to be able to do is hug the terrain and never pop up to take shots of its own at all (so as not to expose itself to return fire)...again, you don't necessarily need a 'Mech for that. :)

[Lagbreaker]

There are tons of light mechs which are viable in lvl 2 play. I am not so sure why people think they are allmost worthless now. Of course in depends a bit on the metagame rules (what pilot skill base, whether or not clan LPL or MPLs is the primary armament of clan opponents, "canon" availabilty of units restricted by faction etc.)

The best lights share some of the following traits:

substantially lower BV than mediums
able to survive the freak Gauss slug to the legs or side torso (ofc they are XL engines in there)
medium pulse lasers (those weapons hit, medium or ER-medium lasers give you generally a lower dmg output over time, while costing more BV)
long range sniper weapons (a safer approach to play lights, clans are obviously better at this--> Incubus "Prime" ridiculously good at this role. The downside is a more social issue. Usually as a general courtesy to my opponent I try to win my games in less than several dozens of turns and not waste time)

A list of IS lights that fit the above criteria (not exhaustive):

Fireball (any variant, maybe except for the 10D one, which is too expensive), premier ini and BV sink for FS, can charge (the dmg isnt that impressive, but its able to initiate from a long distance, pushes and blocks hvy woods)

Locust-5M,-6M (the 6M is on the expensive side but its ridiculously fast, similar role as Fireball)

Red Shift (2 MPLs, a TAG if u need one, ECM, BAP if u need one, cheap)

Dart-6S (as long as the legs are not getting hit too much that mech keeps on backstabbing)

Mongoose-76 (3MPLS, ECM, MASC for occasional speed burst)

Tarantula-3A (2 MPLS and jump)

Arctic Fox A (4 MPs, 3SPLs, jump, can carry BAs and has the MPs drop them off with a +3TMM in many circumstances)

Battle Hawk-305 (3MPs, on the slower side of the movement spectrum but cheap)

Hammer-3C (7MLs!, slow but sturdy, ok BV. I´ve seen mass Hammer rushes in action, they work against quite a few opponents)

Hermes-4S (under Bv1 you would see it in each and every game with any opponent who could field it. Took a hit in popularity with the way BV2 treats MASC units)

Hussar-500D ( a no-brainer -> ER-PPC and 9/14 speed, masses of those C3i linked or not is any Wobbies dream)

Husssar-950D (honorable mention, more expensive than the rest of the lights, it is quite similar to the Incubus)

Gurkha-4G (LPL makes it a good backstabber and light mech hunter)

Venom-9KC (I dont know any DC player who wouldnt field those, armored, 3MPLs, and very good mobility)

[Sir Chaos]

I´d give the Spider-7M and the Venom at least honorable mentions on your list. They´re a bit light on the armor side, but high speed, jump jets and 2 and 4 MPL respectively make for supreme backstabbers.

Generally I consider jump jets a great plus for any light mech, and practically a must for backstabbers.

[MadCapellan]

I like a lot of the 'Mechs on your list, Lagbreaker, although I feel like the inclusion of the Battle Hawk & Hammer is unduly influenced by using bv without FSM and utilizing swarm tactics.  A single example of either of those 'Mechs is likely a one-turn casualty.  While I understand where you are coming from, even introtech Stingers can be effective in a modern game if you just take as many as you can for the bv.  I'm a pretty famous detractor of bv, but even those who use it often use it in conjunction with other limitations such as overall force-size, tonnage, etc which makes it unlikely that you can get true value from using a 'Mech chassis whose only strength is swarm tactics.

[Lagbreaker]

Well the SDR-7M is a special case. The main issue its legs arent MPL proof. Its cheap and high mobility but that little detail mostly kills it.

JJs arent a necessity for backstabbers, mostly because it increases BV unnecesserily. Sure there is terrain where you can only jump to get to the rear of a mech but mostly your running MPs should be sufficient to do that.

[Lagbreaker]

I like a lot of the 'Mechs on your list, Lagbreaker, although I feel like the inclusion of the Battle Hawk & Hammer is unduly influenced by using bv without FSM and utilizing swarm tactics.  A single example of either of those 'Mechs is likely a one-turn casualty.  While I understand where you are coming from, even introtech Stingers can be effective in a modern game if you just take as many as you can for the bv.  I'm a pretty famous detractor of bv, but even those who use it often use it in conjunction with other limitations such as overall force-size, tonnage, etc which makes it unlikely that you can get true value from using a 'Mech chassis whose only strength is swarm tactics.

No its not necessarily swarm tactics where these mechs are only useful. You just sometimes have the option of taking one 1.5-1.8k BV mech or 2 of those. They obviously cant be the only close range mechs in your force else they attract to mcu attention and with lights in general its a timing issue. If you are going to gank one mech arrive at the same time with a good TMM and positioning.

Wasps, Stingers, etc where of dubious usefulness even in lvl 1 times. In lvl 2 they are inisinks. No firepower and or mobility worth mentioning and they drop in one attack from "light mech hunters". If you want to ini sink and the metagame allows it, better take flat bed trucks or something. They are cheaper and just as useful.

[A. Lurker]

JJs arent a necessity for backstabbers, mostly because it increases BV unnecesserily. Sure there is terrain where you can only jump to get to the rear of a mech but mostly your running MPs should be sufficient to do that.

Remember that even when you're fighting on an infinite flat plain, you still pay MP to turn while running. Jumping gets you pretty much anywhere within a given radius no questions asked and lets you pick your facing when you land for free. Also, jump MP aren't reduced by heat...

That gives jump jets some use even under ideal running conditions, and in practice much of the time you simply won't have those. I certainly don't put jets on every single 'Mech I use, but for a dedicated close-in backstabber I'd consider them a must.

If only because after my attack I'd like to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting away again next turn, too. :)

[MadCapellan]

Wasps, Stingers, etc where of dubious usefulness even in lvl 1 times. In lvl 2 they are inisinks. No firepower and or mobility worth mentioning and they drop in one attack from "light mech hunters". If you want to ini sink and the metagame allows it, better take flat bed trucks or something. They are cheaper and just as useful.

You are underestimating the value of a 'Mech far too much.  I can get seven STG-3R Stingers for the BV of a Devastator.  Now, that might not mean much on a salt flat, but in built up terrain where they can easily close under cover, they've got a lot more utility than trucks or infantry.  Seven 'Mechs with jump jets can block access to valuable terrain, cut off avenues of movement, backstab, and most importantly kick, push, charge, and death from above.   They aren't very potent by themselves, but if they are moved and used as a unit to surround and gang kick another 'Mech, it doesn't really matter how big that 'Mech is, it'll generally finish each turn on the ground with a lot of rear armor and internal damage. 

[Lagbreaker]

Remember that even when you're fighting on an infinite flat plain, you still pay MP to turn while running. Jumping gets you pretty much anywhere within a given radius no questions asked and lets you pick your facing when you land for free. Also, jump MP aren't reduced by heat...

That gives jump jets some use even under ideal running conditions, and in practice much of the time you simply won't have those. I certainly don't put jets on every single 'Mech I use, but for a dedicated close-in backstabber I'd consider them a must.

If only because after my attack I'd like to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting away again next turn, too. :)

Seriously mate, just grant me the courtesy of assuming that I know the ruleset. Facing change rquires MPs, really?  :)

Generally getting there to backstabis rarely is the issue, its just that some units are more dangerous to backstab than others (Saggitaire, Pulse Rakshasa, insert your pulse and or flippy arms unit) and its the positioning and timing that makes you go for it or wait another turn.
Heat is rarely a factor. You simply dont overheat on general principle and you are fine. Even in lvl 1 play its a bad habit a desperate gamble if you will most of the time and not an efficient use of your ressources.

Frex. Take a stock lvl 1 Jenner. On turn 1 you get into the rear and alpha. You are 7 heat and 6/9/5 fast. Suppose you fear for your Jenners life and on turn 2 you jump away to cool down. With 5 jump it has to be a location that your opponent cant reach by walking up to the Jenner or out of LOS so that the opponent just can camp and fire at you with their long range weapons at short range. In that turn 2 your Jenner does nothing at all besides init sinking. On turn 3 you are +2 heat and if you found that hard to reach hiding spot you likely have to jump back into the action using most of the available heat sink capacity up and having bad numbers to hit.
Compare that to fireing 3 of the 5 3-heat weapons at the Jenners disposal for 3 turns. You are there threatening everyone within your reach kicking people and never lose a single of those precious 11 running MPs in the process. You still have the option to jump away if things get to tight and if there are no suitable targets but at least you have the choice to do so.

If you want to make your shots count, especially on those 8/12/8s or 7/11/7s then run if there is a way possible. Jumping is only there if you run out of ideas, have to disengage or if you are on the low end of the movement spectrum and unable to reach a safe firing position otherwise.
If you backstab say an unguarded Archer, who cares if you only have a +3 TMM with your Venom when it can only fire its 2 rear medium lasers. If that Archer uses the LRMs its another +2 to be hit. If the Archer doesnt then the Venom took one for the team. 2 Mediums arent going to kill it and preventing dual LRM20s from being fired is great in that case.

Battletech is no rocket science. To play this game well you have to do a lot of little things right everytime you play. A perfect understanding of all applicable rules is a no brainer. If you dont know all the rules in the game then you are guessing and the results will show. You have to know each and every unit at the table. Speed, Weapons, heat sink capacity, weapons placement, which units has flipping arms etc. Of course one can look it up each turn during play. No player I ever played with on table top has the disipline to do throughout the entire game in bigger fights. Its just tedious and disrupts gameflow. Playing a lot makes you memorize these things.
You have to be aware at all times of all to hit numbers of all units around you and their range brackets. There is no excuse for rushing the poor Archer in my example above with say the Battle Hawk starting from range 15 and running 8 hexes towards him ending at range 7 or ending up in a place where say a BHKU-O can run up to you and end in hex 2 range.
Count the hexes, calculate the to hit numbers and lights can be a great asset in a fight. It needs a bit of practice and a feel for the game dynamic.
All the above assumes you use lights to combat other mechs or vees. If you use light mechs only to ini sink, scout (whatever that means in a standup fight) or to fight jeeps or infantry then it really doesnt matter what lights you take cause all of them can do those jobs in one form or another.

About those Sniping Lights (Talon, Jackal-55, etc.):

I am sitting on the fence on those. Experienced players tend to have units dedicated to getting rid of those (Wraith, LPL Lightray or even use the fast pulse Lights etc). The issue is this. You have to get rid of those early in the game to take away the opportunity of your opponent to turn the game into a farce later on. It mostly acts as an insurance that if the game goes wrong that he still has the capability to force you to play out another couple of dozen turns until you are left with no units capable of threatening his sniper.
Eventually taking down an opponents force on 10s when he needs 13s or cant even fire back is a waste of time and the outcome is obvious.

On the other hand those lights give you the opportunity to ini sink, stay away from danger while still contributing to the fight, so they have their merit. But they have to carry a real weapon, not a single AC2 or LRM5 cause those accomplish nothing in the timeframe where your other units are engaged with your opponent, weakened by having BV tied up in the sniper.

[Lagbreaker]

You are underestimating the value of a 'Mech far too much.  I can get seven STG-3R Stingers for the BV of a Devastator.  Now, that might not mean much on a salt flat, but in built up terrain where they can easily close under cover, they've got a lot more utility than trucks or infantry.  Seven 'Mechs with jump jets can block access to valuable terrain, cut off avenues of movement, backstab, and most importantly kick, push, charge, and death from above.   They aren't very potent by themselves, but if they are moved and used as a unit to surround and gang kick another 'Mech, it doesn't really matter how big that 'Mech is, it'll generally finish each turn on the ground with a lot of rear armor and internal damage.

They are prey to every Wraith, or other maneuverable LPL carrier in the game. Those mechs screen the slower units. Every Wasp likely ends up prone after one attack of a Wraith if those Pulse lasers hit. A kick later and they are cored and removed from the game entirely. A Wraith can walk up to them to keep target numbers low. It doesnt have to fear a single ML and 2 MGs of return fire and with initiative being what it is, they cant gank up on a Wraith either in a way to be dangerous. Those Wasp will be engaged and destroyed likely before they even have a chance of touching the DVS. No amount of cover will help them cause the DVS will stay away from that cover if possible in the case of real threats showing up to backstab.

The light mech swarm with Wasps or Stingers is a joke TBH. To pull off a light mech swarm of in a lvl 2 environment cheap BV mechs are not enough. They have to be BV efficientA Venom might cost 2 - 3 times as much but it is certainly more than 2-3 times as survivable and dangerous to your opponent.
Lvl 2 play is characterised by more mobile units and pulse weapons in general so having 6/9/6 20 ton mechs there vs. units up to 3 times their weight and nearly 5 times their armor is suicidal. Those Wasps are not for free. For 100BV a piece maybe you can reach that DVS in sufficient numbers and still have the time to kill it, but at the end of the day, what are they going to do vs a Pixie-3PL, a Nightsky a Saggitaire, the Wraith, etc. which you will often find paired with a DVS or other slow long range units.

[Fireangel]

Wasps and Stingers are not perfect, but they are extremely useful if properly deployed.

[MadCapellan]

Lvl 2 play is characterised by more mobile units and pulse weapons in general so having 6/9/6 20 ton mechs there vs. units up to 3 times their weight and nearly 5 times their armor is suicidal. Those Wasps are not for free. For 100BV a piece maybe you can reach that DVS in sufficient numbers and still have the time to kill it, but at the end of the day, what are they going to do vs a Pixie-3PL, a Nightsky a Saggitaire, the Wraith, etc. which you will often find paired with a DVS or other slow long range units.

There's going to be far fewer screeners than there will be those trying to break through.  Add a Wraith and the number of Stingers just leapt from seven to ten.  The Wraith will kill or cripple one a turn, but it's not going to be able to hold them all back.  They may even gang up on the Wraith and take it out outside of LOS of the Devastator.  10 MLs and 20 MGs can put some mean hurt on.  Is it an instant win strategy?  No, but it's still dangerous.  As I said, anything is dangerous in a swarm.

[Lagbreaker]

There's going to be far fewer screeners than there will be those trying to break through.  Add a Wraith and the number of Stingers just leapt from seven to ten.  The Wraith will kill or cripple one a turn, but it's not going to be able to hold them all back.  They may even gang up on the Wraith and take it out outside of LOS of the Devastator.  10 MLs and 20 MGs can put some mean hurt on.  Is it an instant win strategy?  No, but it's still dangerous.  As I said, anything is dangerous in a swarm.

Though, we can certainly debate whether c. 4k BV invested in a single DVS and Wraith is the best force one can field no matter fighting against swarm or a more sensible lineup (its not, ofc), I am willing to give it a try. A more potent unit would field 3 Wraiths at that BV or if that is too unimaginative a Templar-O (for the assault), a Wraith TR1 and a Tarantula-3A. In these low BV games its not a wise choice to field dedicated long range mechs with no short range capability but anyway if you are up to it, fire up your megamek. I will give my best to destroy the Stinger swarm before the DVS falls.

[lljkBreetai]

I would blame the fact that it is possible to build good 8/12/0 and 7/11/7 mediums as what have made lights obsolete.

One problem that I have with this as a reason is that it automatically assumes that you're cashed up enough to want to use XL engines.

On a budget, or in the case that you want your 'Mechs to have some degree of durability, non-XL engined Light 'Mechs still have a place on the battlefield as there are speeds at which they are more tonnage-efficient than non-XL mediums.

[A. Lurker]

One problem that I have with this as a reason is that it automatically assumes that you're cashed up enough to want to use XL engines.

On a budget, or in the case that you want your 'Mechs to have some degree of durability, non-XL engined Light 'Mechs still have a place on the battlefield as there are speeds at which they are more tonnage-efficient than non-XL mediums.

It's not your budget you should worry about here, inasmuch as C-bill costs are ever more than a pure fluff argument (and given Fasanomics, not even an all that convincing one at that). It's that of your opposition.

I mean, if we're going to debate the point in-universe, what are you going to do if the enemy simply decides to be unsporting and show up with more expensive and envelope-pushing units than the ones you're fielding? Shout "unfair!!!" and call the referee? :)

And as far as durability goes...well, light 'Mechs are kind of inherently limited in that regard no matter how you slice it. A smartly-used XLE won't really make matters that much worse here than they already are.

[lljkBreetai]

I mean, if we're going to debate the point in-universe, what are you going to do if the enemy simply decides to be unsporting and show up with more expensive and envelope-pushing units than the ones you're fielding?

And yet for the same cost, I could greatly outnumber or even outweigh them...

[A. Lurker]

And yet for the same cost, I could greatly outnumber or even outweigh them...

Sure, that's kind of my point. Did you spend the same amount? Or were you being cheap while the other side splurged?

[iamfanboy]

Well, part of what got hashed out in that other thread about designing lights was that even though you can have 8/12 and 7/11 mediums, that means you can have 10/15 and 11/17 lights, meaning a reliable +4 TMM even at walking speed. Combine that with the extreme range afforded by ERPPCs and (spirits forbid!) CERLLs and you can easily be talking a +6-9 TMM to hit your light while you only have a +3-5.

Not to mention it's easier to keep out of a pulse laser's range if you've got a 15-17 hex run.


And quite honestly, because I'm a dirty bastard, what I'd do with lights like Panthers, Hammers, and Battle Hawks post-3060 would be use them in out of the way garrisons where I'd expect the occasional raid. They may only be a pothole to better-equipped pirate units or deep raiders, but they'd be a deep one, and the salvage value would be minimal. I'd say a company of cheap light plus a couple companies of vehicles would be a decent pirate deterrent.

[epic]

Speaking to bringing back the light mech: I think that the light and medium mechs are the only mechs to really have good chances of surviving the jihad in numbers. 

How so?  Having run a jihad campaign with my players against the WoB, the players lost nearly every heavy/assault unit they had, and all infantry that wasn’t mobile via fast transport.  Air mobile, for the most part.

Why?  Nukes, my friends nukes.  Having now dropped a tac nuke on the battlefield a couple times against them, via arty… the only things that survived were the ones that ran out of their deployment zone as quick as possible.  2 rounds of 10+ move to get away from the suspected target area.  Anything that moved less than that… was caught in the blast radius.  Heavies and assaults after getting hit by a Davy Crockett… not so good.  Often they’d have 50 or 60 damage applied as the game started into the second turn, plus secondary effects that were even worse.

The only mechs with the chance to get out of the primary blast radius in time were lights, and some mediums, who then had to close into knife-fighting range of WoB forces because of it (due to EMI penalties, they needed to close range to even have chances to hit). 

[Jackmc]

How so?

Why?  Nukes, my friends nukes.

I do believe you're getting perception confused with reality.  The perception was that during the Jihad, nukes were dropping left and right, but in reality that's simply not true.  Nukes were used on high profile targets, and thus got high profile coverage, but the vast majority of the conflicts were conventional battles with no WMD's of any type.  I'd be rather shocked if WMD's were used in even 1% of all battles.

-Jackmc

[Knightmare]

Hmm...I'll have to consult the books, but I'm fairly certain the total % of WMD use is probably higher than 1% simply because of the WoB's numerical disadvantage. They seemed to use WMDs first and then offer up conventional warfare later. Assuming of course they had access to the WMD in the first place.

However, that could be fiction coloring my overall perception - which seemed to show the Wobbies slinging WMDs left and right, so the total % could be far less than something extreme like +30%.

Neat question though...guess I'll have to find an answer.  (Jihad Final Reckoning should make it easier to figure out IMO who nuked what with the book's deployment tables.)

[Charlie Tango]

Neat question though...guess I'll have to find an answer.  (Jihad Final Reckoning should make it easier to figure out IMO who nuked what with the book's deployment tables.)

What deployment tables?

[Belisarius]

Part of the unique nature of the Jihad is that the WoB was able to invade their high profile targets (seemingly) at will. That said, then, the majority of the early engagements were high profile (and hence nuke magnets). The majority of the fighting (based on my limited readings) was, in fact, conventional; but that's only because the majority of the fighting (AFAIK) was actually the fight to roll-up the Word's conventional forces and retake their gains.

Basically, until and unless the Word thought they were in dire straights, they were working (mostly) conventional (depending on your assessment of cyborgs being 'conventional'). But when they 'really needed it' they didn't hesitate to use them to snatch victory (or at least equal defeat) from the jaws of defeat. This differs from the other powers in that, in the course of the entire millenium of storyline, WMD use was only discussed as being prevalent in a few cases with the Star League's wars, the 1st and 2nd SSW, Edo, and now the Jihad. So a few brief snapshots in 1,000 years of story.

[Jackmc]

they were working (mostly) conventional (depending on your assessment of cyborgs being 'conventional').

As odd as this sounds the MD were conventional irregulars.

-Jackmc