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Author Topic: Question on Property  (Read 1306 times)

Khymerion

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Question on Property
« on: 04 November 2011, 17:58:31 »
This came up namely because of the fact that during character creation, a player was able to buy rank 10 property (very easy to do) and rank 3 nobility (again, it's almost handed to noble background characters) plus a rank in reputation.  When totaled together, it gave the player a potential property holding of rating of 12.   It was same player was tossing around the idea of getting 6 ranks in nobility to be a full blooded noble but this would have pushed his potential up past 13... with a slightly higher reputation pushing to 14 ranks.

The chart stops at 11. 

Players can only start with rank 10...  I know this...  but even if 12 is reasonably and easily possible and 14 being the general limit on what he could toss about...  there is not a single guideline or even a predictable ratio on which wealth generated per year escalates up.  Even a bit of basic division gives the jump from 9 to 10 as a multiplier of 9.375 from one to the next and 10 to 11 being a multiplier of 8.3333.

Looking for something tangible to give the player besides just saying that he can't have a baron's title, a reputation of 2, or a land holding of 10... thus getting the mythical rank 14.   Some players spend that much or more just to own their own custom rides straight out... and have little to back it up...  so it isn't a major difficulty to see a player get this ball rolling. 

Just saying that he gets to have a rank 10 holding and a rank 4 holding seems to be gypping him out of points... considering the income difference between rank 10 and rank 4 (nearly 187.5 times the difference).   With that many points spent, other players are able to pretty much custom build their own ultra mega walking death bot that they own outright...  so having a planet and then tossing on a small spaceport on the side seems kinda...  underwhelming for the points.

So, I am trying to see what others have or can come up with...   just as long as the answer of 'No, you can't because TPTB can't give a chart that can cover what is capable in the rules and never shall a player own more than a single world' doesn't come up.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

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monbvol

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Re: Question on Property
« Reply #1 on: 04 November 2011, 20:30:56 »
For frame of reference while it is not specifically stated based on the scenario provided I assume you are talking A Time of War rules.

If so Reputation and Title don't directly add to the Property trait like that.  Indeed to even have a Property trait above 5 requires a matching Title trait.  That's 2,000 XP right off the top of the starting 5,000 XP.

Where Reputation adds is in the yearly Administration check to see how much money your property nets you that year.

Now for extrapolating values beyond the basic 10 given I haven't worked anything out for that myself but honestly if you really need that then I think the campaign is worrying about the wrong things and I'm not sure A Time of War is what you should be using.

Khymerion

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Re: Question on Property
« Reply #2 on: 04 November 2011, 21:29:24 »
For frame of reference while it is not specifically stated based on the scenario provided I assume you are talking A Time of War rules.

If so Reputation and Title don't directly add to the Property trait like that.  Indeed to even have a Property trait above 5 requires a matching Title trait.  That's 2,000 XP right off the top of the starting 5,000 XP.

Where Reputation adds is in the yearly Administration check to see how much money your property nets you that year.

Now for extrapolating values beyond the basic 10 given I haven't worked anything out for that myself but honestly if you really need that then I think the campaign is worrying about the wrong things and I'm not sure A Time of War is what you should be using.


Really?   Must of missed that.   Thank you for straightening that out for me.   I appreciate being straightened out.   Since it was pretty much trying to piece things together from scratch between about 6 people with only one book between us, it is easy to miss something that was buried in a paragraph and not very well spelled out.   Thanks again for straightening me out.

You are right, now it makes so much more sense...  and isn't nearly as interesting a trait at the same time.   Kinda was interesting to be able to see the game from a planetary or multi-system ruler POV.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

monbvol

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Re: Question on Property
« Reply #3 on: 04 November 2011, 23:12:15 »
No problem.

I spend entirely too much time analyzing RPG systems, figuring out how elements actually work.  Sometimes it even comes in handy.

Property is still a fairly potent trait since even making that yearly Administration roll for even the lowest level of Property will still net a fairly sizable amount of C-Bills even if the player only gets to once.

The main reason I'm against high Title/Property traits is by the time a character has that kind of power and influence it is really hard to model in a RPG.  It isn't impossible but it does make certain campaigns harder to do.  For instance if the player does have a lot of Title and Property then what is there for them to strive for?  What can truly threaten them?

There are answers to these questions but one of the things I find that AToW models poorly is the authority/prestige that comes from high Rank/Title.  This is why I made some of the house rules I will likely use next AToW campaign I run.

Khymerion

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Re: Question on Property
« Reply #4 on: 05 November 2011, 09:37:52 »
No problem.

I spend entirely too much time analyzing RPG systems, figuring out how elements actually work.  Sometimes it even comes in handy.

Property is still a fairly potent trait since even making that yearly Administration roll for even the lowest level of Property will still net a fairly sizable amount of C-Bills even if the player only gets to once.

The main reason I'm against high Title/Property traits is by the time a character has that kind of power and influence it is really hard to model in a RPG.  It isn't impossible but it does make certain campaigns harder to do.  For instance if the player does have a lot of Title and Property then what is there for them to strive for?  What can truly threaten them?

There are answers to these questions but one of the things I find that AToW models poorly is the authority/prestige that comes from high Rank/Title.  This is why I made some of the house rules I will likely use next AToW campaign I run.

Wouldn't mind hearing some of those honestly some time.

I was almost hoping for a bit of Birthright in Battletech style gameplay myself.

Then again, for that, I think I need to wait for IO to arrive.  Sad day there.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

monbvol

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Re: Question on Property
« Reply #5 on: 05 November 2011, 12:10:06 »
I have a whole thread here.

Beware that is the start of the thread and most of the good stuff is towards the end but the context may prove helpful.

Plus comments are welcome.

Colt Ward

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Re: Question on Property
« Reply #6 on: 07 November 2011, 13:34:15 »
Your trying to figure out what to give him as 'property' besides a planet?

Not too hard if you look at how titles were handed out as the Middles Ages came to an end.  First, you could include him in some order, but not a national order but say a regional one?  Something like the Draconis March has a Noble Order of the Dragonslayer, an order that is created by the march lord for those who contribute to the defense of the march against the Combine.  Of course, the depends on location and your character's backstory.

Sometimes the 'property' can be information.  How about your character owns the holonet charter on planet X?  or planet X, Y & Z?  Or your character owned the company that successfully reverse engineered EndoSteel for C region?  Your company vaults from obscurity to a headliner, you pull lots of investment capital to build half a dozen new orbital station factories in your region, and you are the prime supplier of EndoSteel to Robinson BattleMechs (which also nets you the title to join the order?)  Or you own a recharge station in a system or two, family holdings from the post-SLDF break up where your umpteen great grandfather was the regional supervisor for some TH company?  Watch out for that nasty great uncle and his son, they wanted to inherit the title and stations from your ancestors.
Colt Ward

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monbvol

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Re: Question on Property
« Reply #7 on: 07 November 2011, 13:50:23 »
I personally have always been willing to call Property a wide variety of things.  For me I have no trouble just calling it widely diversified investment portfolio, a corporation, farming concern, or any other number of potential sources of income.

Where the breakdown does seem to happen though is for the base value of Property beyond 10.  While there may be a formula to determine extra profit/loss for the yearly Administration roll, there is nothing saying what the base value to start from is beyond Property 10.

 

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