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Author Topic: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011  (Read 13078 times)

Frabby

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BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« on: 20 November 2011, 15:14:23 »
Here's the unedited transcript of today's first chat (12:00 PM EDT). It is pretty straightforward and I don't feel an edited/sorted transcript is required:

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<Frabby1>: I may only include Tetatae if they have stats and rules in A Time of War.
<Oystein>: the Teatatae are busy holding back the Elder god hordes.
<Frabby1>: I think we're still waiting for the Tetatae sourcebook expansion, which is scheduled for 2015 or something.
<Habeas2>: |}
<Mendrugo>: However, it's a low budgie-t sourcebook...a cockatoo-mamie idea...
<Habeas2>: Hello!
<Paladin1>: Hey
<DeJaVu>: hello
<Frabby1>: *bows*
<mib_4kg38b>: Good morning
<Mendrugo>: Targeting system online...
<Habeas2>: Once again, welcome to the Catalyst Game Labs Emergency Intelligence Incinerator
<Habeas2>: To proceed in ENglish, Press 1
<sarcasmo>: That sounds serious!
<Weirdo>: 9
<Mendrugo>: (presses 666)
<Frabby1>: 0800-BATTLETECH
<Habeas2>: To proceed in Farsi, Press the CTRL+ALT+DEL
<Habeas2>: To proceed, press "Hi"
<Oystein>: Hi
<Weirdo>: high
<Chinless>: Hi
<Mendrugo>: Hi+Alt+1? Wait, what?
<Habeas2>: At this time, the Catalyst Game Labs BattleTech Line Developer would like to introduce his eldest cat, Annie, who has decided this chat will be monitored by Feline Overlords for quality assurance purposes.
<Frabby1>: Cats hate me
<sarcasmo>: Meow.
<Habeas2>: Standard rules for this chat apply: Be ciurteous; give others a chance to ask questions, and do not be a penis.
<Habeas2>: The BattleTech Line Developer reseverse the right to kick those who fail to accept these rules.
<Habeas2>: This chat will continue until (at least) 1:15 PM, Civilized Coast Time (EDT).
<Habeas2>: Thank you for participating in this Catalyst Game Labs BattleTech Line Developer-aided Public Relations Activity.
<Habeas2>: If a log is desired, it's on you; I will not be logging these proceedings.
<sarcasmo>: How goes the XTROs? we're you still having issues with them?
<Habeas2>: Question and Answer mode, initiated....
<Habeas2>: Sarcasmo - The XTRs continue, but periodic issues--mostly regarding Record Sheets and BV computations--remain. In the future, Battle Value may be removed to facilitate faster delivery schedules.
<Frabby1>: I was going to ask... just how important to you think BV really is?
<sarcasmo>: Will the BVs be added later, say to the MUL or an update to the XTRO
<Mendrugo>: Have you narrowed down what sort of gameplay experiences you want Interstellar Operations to deliver to players? (Months-long grand strategic? Regular BT with loads of special situation rules?)
<Paladin1>: Has the unveiling of the Mechwarrior Online website generated any apparent residual interest in the older, table top Battletech game?
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - WHile, in principle, Battle Value has merit as a game-balancing system, it has become a cumbersome and complex formula, and we are currently looking into ways of replacing it with something simpler, and perhaps more abstract.
<DeJaVu>: when to go on sale a new party 25th anniversary box set?
<Habeas2>: Sarcasmo - Perhaps, but it will not be a priority.
<Frabby1>: MW Online: Does this project have any impact on the universe development? Does it contribute new, original (as in, previously unpublished) Canon?
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - Interstellar Operations will focus both on providing a grand-strategic scale of warfare (on the level of the Inner Sphere in Flames rules), as well as game support for alternate time periods.
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - I am certain there has been some cross-interest, but it is difficult to guage at this time
<Weirdo>: What further support of the BattleForce and/or Quickstrike systems are planned? I find both to be a wonder way to explore some of the bigger fights such as the Reunification War, but a lot of things used in that time period have no conversions to BForce, like mobs, or nukes.
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - I'm afraid I do not have a street date for the next run of Box Sets at this time. I can only say "soon"
<Mendrugo>: How is work on the A Time of War Companion progressing? Any part of it standing out as your favorite?
<sarcasmo>: Have any of the issues Randall discussed on his forum post with the overseas producer improved?
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - Absolutely none. We at Catalyst Game Labs are presently under no pressure to adapt our product line and canon for the MW Online system. As ever, electronic and print games run largely autonomously, with one having no direct impact on the other.
<Habeas2>: Weirdo - A great deal of upport for BattleForce and QuickStrike are planned for the future. To describe it further, however, is beyond the limits of my obligations.
<DeJaVu>: mechwarrior online - "canon" or "non-canon" game?
<Weirdo>: Works for me.
<Frabby1>: MUL: Why were the first introduction dates from the beta file not included in the database?
<Paladin1>: What would you call the amount of cooperation between the CGL team and the MWO development team, in terms of adapting to the established canon?
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - A Time of War Companion is progressing, but given the current focus on some more urgent projects, it has slowed somewhat. As to favorites, I cannot wait to get the critter rules done.
<Frabby1>: Tetatae!
<Habeas2>: Sarcasmo - Not that I am aware of.
<Habeas2>: Iron_Liz - Like that!
<Iron_Liz>:
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - Non-canon
<Mendrugo>: What's your favorite critter in the BT Universe?
<Iron_Liz>: Thraxan Devourer
<Mendrugo>: (Keeping in mind that for Herb - favorite = nuked)
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of units in the BattleTech universe, and only about 80 active fact-checkers--fewer still on the MUL team. These things take time, and people were growing impatient. We compromised.
<Frabby1>: I was just wondering, since the dates were present in the beta - so the work was apparently already done.
<Weirdo>: Now that the Jihad is over, are you going to miss the nukes?
<Iron_Liz>: I have a question: In the upcoming books, will there be more focus on the Periphery. Specifically with the Magistracy of Canopus?
<Mendrugo>: Any hints as to the identity of the "more urgent projects"?
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - Casual. We are not straitjacketing each other. Fact is, player-controlled universes (such as MMOs) are hard to translate into book-driven schedules and vice versa. MWO will do what it does, and we will do what we have done.
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - The tabiranth.
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - Apparently, they were not considered satisfactory.
<Habeas2>: Weirdo - Not at all. Plenty more mass destruction in the pipe.
<Habeas2>: Iron_Liz - No more than usual, really.
<Iron_Liz>: Awwwww
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - Field Manual: 3085
<Mendrugo>: Any hints as to the identity of the "more urgent projects"?
<Mendrugo>: Awwww. No love for the Vegan slug rat...
Habeas2 stares blankly
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - Field Manual: 3085
<Habeas2>: There's an echo in here....
<Weirdo>: AToW's combat system seems pretty easy to expand into a squad or platoon-level combat system. Any plans to expand or support this, perhaps in the Companion?
<Iron_Liz>: Without trying to sound like a fangirl, it would be interesting to know some more about the Magistracy. Specifically how they lost New Detroit to the Cappies. At least that's what it looks like on the Dark Age map
<Paladin1>: With the Age of War and Reunification War sourcebooks now out and the Liberation of Terra books nearing completion, has interest in the Star League eras been high enough to warrant further products covering events from this era or closely related eras, such as the 1st Succession War?
<sarcasmo>: Weirdo: I too, miss the Battletroops!
<DeJaVu>: Planned continuation novels Dark Age series on battlecorps?
<Frabby1>: A question on novels. US publication seems to have stopped after To Ride the Chimera. Bonfire of Worlds DTF seems to be stuck somewhere in limbo. Who's holding the novel license these days, is Roc Books still in?
<Habeas2>: Weirdo - The combat system was intended to work as a decent squad/platoon system as it stands; there will be some expansions in Companion.
<Weirdo>: Woots.
<WolfLancer4>: forgive if asked earlier but will the AToW companion have the rules for Enhanced Imaging?
<Habeas2>: Iron_Liz - The Dark Age actually has a blood relation between the Capellan and Canopian thrones (the rulers are brother and sister); between the two, the CCAF would hve more strength to hold Detroit, and it is likely the two sibling rulers decided on this amicably.
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - Yes
<Iron_Liz>: Cool cool I know Naomi wasn't exactly pleased it took so long to liberate Crimson from the Wobbies
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu and Frabby1 - We are still working out a means to continue the fiction from the end of To Ride the Chimera. The approach we are working on is presently more electronic than print. I am afraid I cannot explain the legal details as to why this is, or offer specifics beyond what I have just said here. We are hoping it works out, though....
<Habeas2>: WolfLancer4 - You mean beyon the rules shown on pp. 316-317, AToW?
<DeJaVu>: The problem is rather in the legal niceties than the author?
<Frabby1>: I'm asking because the new German licensee, Ulisses Spiele, is publishing new, original German novels. I thought it's kinda weird that new German novels come out but English novels are a problem.
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - I cannot say
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - The German novels are not tied to the canon being laid out by CGL, and are only official to the German audience....
<Frabby1>: I feared you would say that
<DeJaVu>: I'll ask for another - there is hope, soon see the novels?
<Mendrugo>: Any chance future products might expand on the potential uses and limits of holo-emitters in the BattleTech universe? (Massive holograms were a plot point in the in-universe Btech cartoon)
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - There is hope. There is always hope.
<WolfLancer4>: well ill be a monkey's uncle. didnt know the rules were in AToW
Oystein hands WolfLancer4 a banana.
<AdamSteiner>: I am out of ammunition. I need information please.
<Weirdo>: Well, I must be off. The cats demand attention.
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - Holograms in BattleTech are not like those in Star Trek; the cartoon represented a system that used holograms for training purposes, and (honestly) should not have worked in a battlefield scenario at all.
<Iron_Liz>: I'm actually the RPG reviewer "Iron Liz" on ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.com and I'm in the middle of reviewing the BattleTech RPGs. Is there any chance of possibly getting an interview with one of the Devs?
<Frabby1>: Herb, there are several mentions of 'Mech training courses in several novels.
<sarcasmo>: boo, no holodecks...
<Frabby1>: And they seem to make massive use of holoprojectors.
<Habeas2>: Iron_Liz - Sure; you can interview me, if you like. I'll PM you my e-mail address so we can set that up.
<Iron_Liz>: *dances*
<Frabby1>: Btw, Iron_Liz: I didn't agree with all details of your reviews, but I liked them nonetheless.
<Frabby1>: So Kudos
<Iron_Liz>: Thanks. I had to leave a LOT out just for sake of time
<Mendrugo>: Plus - the Fall of Terra British Isles campaign used holographic decoys...
<sarcasmo>: Any particular products that are taking longer then they should?
<mib_4kg38b>: Will we see any Turning Points before the end of the year?
<GhostBear>: mib_4kg38b - at least one.
<DeJaVu>: I admin Russian BT-resource "Battletech Library", can you also ask for an interview?
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - Solaris VII, Davion Arena, shows the limit of holograms in combat, where it is clearly shown that the holograns, while life-like, have no substance, and rely on physical objects to have force. For Mechs to be affected by hologramic Mechs, the images must overlay a real Mech, weapon system, or such....
<Frabby1>: A question for GhostBear: Any thoughts on the fate of the crew of the SLS Manassas? I didn't see any mention of them ever again, and I was *this
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - ...OR the real Mech's computers and controls must be tied into the simulation matrix itself, so that the simulated weapons fire causes appropriate simulated "damage" (such as slowing the real Mech down to reflect a damaged leg actuator and such).
<Frabby1>: *close to betting money on them playing a part in the Wars of Reaving (or otherwise make a lasting impact on the artificial Clan society).
<Frabby1>: which never materialized though. Or did I miss something?
<Habeas2>: sarcasmo - ALL of our books take longer than they should!
<GhostBear>: Frabby1 - until something's published, can't say. that's how we roll.
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - I'm sorry; was that question for me or for Iron_Liz?
<Frabby1>: I'll take that to mean I didn't miss anything, and that nothing new was published. Thanks.
<DeJaVu>: for you
<sarcasmo>: How serious are looking at overhauling/redoing BV? And how much resources would that take?
<Paladin1>: In reference to the time required for a product to be completed, what is your target time frame from start to finish?
<Mendrugo>: What's involved with converting an old sourcebook to PDF format? Are any of the older books in the pipeline?
<Iron_Liz>: No love for Liz
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - Yes; I'll do interviews. I'll PM you my e-mail address as well.
<DeJaVu>: very-very-very respect from russianspeak fan
<Frabby1>: Canonicity question: When was the Outworlds Alliance crest changed from the 3025 stylized JumpShip (portrayed on the OA's Succession Wars game tokens) to the newer "Fireball" crest, and why? (Why would an outspoken apolitical entity like the OA even want a crest?)
<Habeas2>: Sarcasmo - Deadly serious. I plan to throw our entire development apparatus at it.
<sarcasmo>: Wow. Well I am sure you will get *A LOT* of suggestions...
<Klep_>: few things battletech players like more than complaining about BV
<Frabby1>: I've always felt BV to be a double-edged sword: The values cannot be truly objective, they always represent the author's personal opinion on how to weigh one attribute against another. It's a subjective system at its core.
<Mendrugo>: Likewise - what is the canonicity of the watermark logos in the original MechWarrior sourcebook? (A raven holding a dagger for the Belt Pirates, a sun on a pointed field for the Circinus Federation, a stylized OR for the Marian Hegemony, and a GV on an oval field for the Greater Valkyriate)?
<Frabby1>: ...which is why I never use BV, except to check if my BattleCorps scenario submissions have roughtly balanced forces in BV's "official" opinion.
<sarcasmo>: My God, Klep. Imagine, making BV easy and kicking the crap out of Davion. There will be nothing to complain about, anymore. Could Utopia be so close?
<Klep_>: haha
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - In THEORY (but remember: In theory, both communism AND democracy work), product development timelines are planned to take about 8 months from proposal to street.
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - Manpower and tme are the biggest issues; CGL already has all the software it needs. We are constantly converting older books to PDF, so more are always in the pipe.
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - because once upon a time Istanbul was Constantinople.
<Iron_Liz>: Will there be a book released that deals solely with known pirate groups at all? Tortuga comes to mind, but possibly other known pirate bands PCs might run into?
<Frabby1>: I got the impression that most pirate bands were ingloriously killed off sooner or later.
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - In all honestly, the BV system is mathematical to a number of levels (each weapon's BV has a computational formula that works fine as long as they are very simple-to-use "point-and-shoot" weapons); the trouble is, terrain and player experience will always show the fallacy of giving hard and strict numbers that ID one unit's strength over another. BV tries too hard to get precision where none is possible.
<Frabby1>: Yes, that's my impression as well.
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - All retired logos.
<Frabby1>: But on the other hand, like you said, there needs to be some sort of balancing rules for tournament play. (I guess. Not a tournament player.)
<sarcasmo>: We have had, 3 balancing systems? CV, BV1 and 2?
<Frabby1>: And BV 2.1, as the MUL team came to call it.
<Habeas2>: Iron_Liz - We are moving away from single-faction sourcebooks, to be totally honest. Years of experiences have shown us that such specialization just doesn't sell well at all. This is why the Handbook series, for example, has all of one book remaining in queue--which I really hope GhostBear is trudging along with!
<DeJaVu>: Planned campaign book for ATOW?
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - Still debating. In a way, the Era Report books are designed to be RPG-friendly campaign books, giving you enough information for era-based play. The BT universe is just too huge for the detail levels you may see in, say, a D&D campaign book.
<Paladin1>: So are you saying that after the Handbook series is completed, there will be no further sourcebooks of that type, such as the Housebooks and Handbooks? How will universe updates to the various militaries be handled going forward?
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - Field Manuals and Era Reports
<mib_4kg38b>: Any news on the "WOR" Supplementel?
<Habeas2>: Mib_4kg38b - Had he not jumped off lready, I would have referred you to GhostBear. It's still in the works.
<sarcasmo>: And the Filtvelt supplemental?
<Frabby1>: Habeas2 & J_Schmetzer: I've been trying to write AToW RPG scenarios for BattleCorps submission, but found it surprisingly difficult. Any suggestions, requests or guidelines for RPG adventure design? Do you think the format of the older scenarios worked well?
<Habeas2>: Sorry; too single-faction centric. We dumped that.
<Mendrugo>: Will the Objectives series (being hyper faction centric) continue?
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - At this moment--and actually for the past several months, between high-priority projects, we have been working on a format for AToW-based adventures/scenarios. When we have one published, you'll see what we're going for.
<sarcasmo>: Boo! I guess it is just too hard to contain the awesomeness of Filtvelt in one book.
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - Once the current seven-PDF series of Objectives is done, I think not.
<Habeas2>: 12 minutes remaining
<Mendrugo>: Ballpark estimate for total casualties in the Jihad? (For comparison to the stats on the back cover of the 4th War Atlas)
<Paladin1>: From 3058 to 3085, the tech race exploded and gave us all kinds of new weapons and gadgets to work with. Now that the Jihad is finally over the the entire Universe is licking it's wounds, do you see the tech race continuing as before or do you see the various factions focusing on rebuilding their infrastructure more?
<Habeas2>: mendrugo - Entire worlds, billions strong, have died. Trust me; the Davions had nothing on WoB.
<PuerScyphu>: http://baron.proudandloud.com/ Here you can make your own unique design T-shirt. Baron Design- feel the difference
<PuerScyphu>: http://baron.proudandloud.com/ Here you can make your own unique design T-shirt. Baron Design- feel the difference
<mib_sxwrfhsarcasmo>: Is there anything in the "back story" of BattleTech that you wish wasn't there?
<Habeas2>: Habeas2 slams a 60 lb unix manual on PuerScyphu 's head. That gotta hurt... but then again... where there's no sense... there's no feeling!
<DeJaVu>: planned products such as Era Digest: Golden Century? Just about clanspace, before 3050 year
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - The tech race is going to massively slow down now that the universe has gotten out of the Jihad, but there will be new advances in the years to come.
<Habeas2>: Sarcasmo - House Davion
<mib_sxwrfhsarcasmo>: Ouch.
<Klep_>: hehe
<Mendrugo>: Do you think the Outer Reaches Rebellion was large enough to warrant an era digest or Historical?
<Frabby1>: Are you going to stay in the established DA timeline for some time, or are you going to rush through to 3135 and beyond and go for entirely new avenues? Will all DA units receive cBT stats?
<Habeas2>: DeJaVu - Yes. There are more planned Era Digest products on our schedule, including one for the early Dark Age and at least one set in the Succession Wars
<krazzyharry>: with the push on other products, is the re-publishing of older TROs und CGL logo going to slow down?
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - The Outer Reaches Rebellion? I'm not entirely certain we will ever deal with that one; if it happened pre-Age of War, it gets into territroy we just don't want to deal with.
<krazzyharry>: Will Dark Age "factions" such as Bannson's Raider and the Swordsworn get the Dossier treatment
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - The republishing of older TROs under the CGL logo is almost done; I think we only have a few more to go.
<Habeas2>: Krazzyharry - That is definitely possible
<krazzyharry>: Thank you
<Habeas2>: 5 minutes
<Paladin1>: Of all the various types of products that CGL publishes, such as TROs, Sourcebooks, Housebooks, etc., which one is the most reliable in terms of numbers sold?
<Frabby1>: Uh...? I think you mixed me up with Krazzyharry.
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - Until recently, we found Technical readouts were the bread and butter of BattleTech's product line. But we have since re-evaluated and now will be cutting back on the number of new TROs to avoid oversaturation. We kind of got ahead of ourselves, after all, when we did 3085
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - Yes; yes, I did.
<Habeas2>: 3 minutes
<Mendrugo>: Um...um...um... Aha! Is Caleb Davion's friend that only he can see or hear either a vision from God (BSG) or a hologram from a time travel facility (Quantum Leap)?
<Habeas2>: Mendrugo - Pity Caleb's imagination wasn't good enough to conjure up a Six, huh?
<Habeas2>: 1 minute
<Frabby1>: So... short treatment of DA timeline to quickly get into new, undefined territory, or going through it all again with the complete BT package - turning points and all?
<Paladin1>: Better that he didn't conjure up a six actually. Not all of us like nukes as much as you Herb.
<Frabby1>: (not sure which option I like better myself)
<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - Yes.
<Habeas2>: Paladin1 - You have no sense of taste.
<Mendrugo>: Sam Beckett never returned home...
<Paladin1>: no, nukes are too quick. go bio or go home
<Habeas2>: Thank you for participating in this Catalyst Game Labs BattleTech Line Developer-aided Public Relations Activity!
<Frabby1>: Thanks for your time Herb!
Next Live BattleChat! - Sunday, (20 November 2011) at 8 PM (EDT)
Topic set by Habeas2 on Sun Nov 20 2011 19:16:23 GMT+0100
<Mendrugo>: Great chat, Herb. Thanks!
<Habeas2>: Thank you! Next chat in ... meh, 6:45!
<DeJaVu>: Great thx, Herb.
<Paladin1>: Great info Herb, thanks!
<Habeas2>: Auf weidersehn!
<Mendrugo>: Do pobachennya!
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin

Hammer

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #1 on: 20 November 2011, 15:30:33 »
Attached is an edited one if anyone wants it.
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RJM

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #2 on: 20 November 2011, 16:33:46 »
Thanks guys!

Lyran Archer

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #3 on: 20 November 2011, 17:08:00 »
Wow. BV2 is going to be replaced. I actually found it to be the very best balancing factor by far. I wonder how soon it will be replaced.
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Jal Phoenix

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #4 on: 20 November 2011, 17:11:39 »
Glad to see the cumbersome and quite useless animal that is battle value will be getting kicked to the curb.  Best Battletech news I've heard all year! 

BeeRockxs

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #5 on: 20 November 2011, 17:26:13 »
Herb didn't say that BV2 is being replaced, only that he's considering it. Big difference there.

greatsarcasmo

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #6 on: 20 November 2011, 17:32:14 »
While I'm not saying it needs to be replaced but if it were, holy crap that is a lot of work...
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majesticmoose

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #7 on: 20 November 2011, 17:39:09 »
BV2 > BV1 > CV, but BV could use an overhaul, over even a complete redefinition.  I won't cry if something better is made.

Jal Phoenix

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #8 on: 20 November 2011, 17:39:16 »

Herb didn't say that BV2 is being replaced, only that he's considering it. Big difference there.


Apparently you and I don't read the same language.



Quote

<Habeas2>: Frabby1 - WHile, in principle, Battle Value has merit as a game-balancing system, it has become a cumbersome and complex formula, and we are currently looking into ways of replacing it with something simpler, and perhaps more abstract.


Quote
<sarcasmo>: How serious are looking at overhauling/redoing BV? And how much resources would that take?
<Habeas2>: Sarcasmo - Deadly serious. I plan to throw our entire development apparatus at it.

RedDevilCG

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #9 on: 20 November 2011, 18:11:40 »
Hoorah!  BV is totally not balanced when you take into consideration the mech as a whole.  Good riddance!

Lyran Archer

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #10 on: 20 November 2011, 19:29:44 »
Hoorah!  BV is totally not balanced when you take into consideration the mech as a whole.  Good riddance!

Well, I admit that there are some glaring problems, such as...

1. C3 networks beyond lance-sized are grotesquely overcosted under BV2.

2. Clan medium and large pulse lasers are woefully undercosted - basically they make your pilot a 2/5 gunner and to do that normally is far more expensive.

3. The force size multiplier replaces even a small initiative/numbers advantage with a severely bloated out-of-proportion BV cost advantage.

4. Bombs are horribly undercosted - a 'Mechbuster loaded with bombs costs about 500 BV and can blast a 3000 to 4000 BV Clan Omni to smithereens no problem.
LCAF German Expeditionary Militia Kampfgruppe Panzerfaust: 1 Overlord class DropShip, 1 Fortress class DropShip, 2 AeroSpace Fighters, 4 BattleMech Companies, 1 Vehicle Company, 1 Infantry Battalion
Motto: STAND (behind a hill) AND DELIVER (indirectly via spotter)!

HMS_Swiftsure

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #11 on: 20 November 2011, 20:09:57 »
I can't define exactly how I feel about potentially replacing BV2.0...  On one hand, it makes sense - BV is inherently flawed.  On the other, it doesn't seem like too much work to fix it - hell, plenty of us fix it manually by feel.  But it still provides a great basis.  I guess it depends on how exploitable the system that replaces it will be.

Not to say I don't have a considerable amount of faith that it will turn out alright.  These are the folks that made the Jihad a lot of fun, after all.

kurtl000

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #12 on: 20 November 2011, 20:31:34 »
What is To Ride a Chimera?

Blackjack Jones

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #13 on: 20 November 2011, 20:40:27 »
What is To Ride a Chimera?

To Ride the Chimera was the last Dark Age novel published by Roc Books. And the last bit of novel info we had before A Bonfire of Worlds.
Basically, Chimera was the last novel released to the general public, as you had to be in the Battletech community already to notice Bonfire coming out.

trboturtle

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #14 on: 20 November 2011, 20:52:49 »
What is To Ride a Chimera?

The last published DTF novel in the Battletech universe. It's set in the Dark Age.

Craig
Author of the BattleCorps Stories -- "The Lance Killer," "Hikagemono," "Negotiation," "Snipe Hunt," "Groundpounder," "The Clawing," "Salvage," "The Promise," "Reap What You Sow," "Color of Authority," "Family Ties," "The Blood of Man," "End of Message," "Heroes' Bridge," "Kurodenkou," "Thirteen," "My Father's Sword," "Evacuation," "Warrior's Song," "Operation Red Lion," "A Matter of Honor," "State of Grace," "Operation Blue Tiger," "A Warrior's Fear," "Shadow Angels," "Murphy's Method," and the Legacy Anthology story, "End of the Road." (Nominated for the International Association of Media Tie-In Writers 2019 Scribe awards for Best Short Story.)

My Blogs!
Battletech:  http://thebattletechstate.blogspot.com/
Other writings: http://trboturtleswritings.blogspot.com/

kurtl000

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #15 on: 20 November 2011, 21:21:08 »
What was that Jihad era novel that was never finished called?  Dark Age really doesnt interest me.

willydstyle

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #16 on: 20 November 2011, 22:08:57 »
BV2 has its quirks (I only think C3 is overcosted if you're putting more than 5-6 units in the Network, but whatev), but is still the best balancing system I've seen in any game ever.  It does require more math than other systems, and I can see how it is confusing to newer players (we didn't even *know* there was a C3 modifier and were getting stomped into the ground by our buddy's Celestials), but I like the rough semblance of balance it brings to the game. I think that ironing out the quirks would be an improvement, but can't see a simpler system being more balanced.

Euphonium

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #17 on: 20 November 2011, 22:10:43 »
...and here's a transcript of the 2nd chat....
(It's not quite complete - the chat is till running, but I need to go to bed - it's after 02:00 my time)

+++ ChanServ has given op to Habeas2
+++ ChanServ has given admin to Habeas2
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: So it begins...
<Euphonium>: <--- wakes up
<JimDiGriz>: I missed the first Battlechat; I was playing a game of BT. What were the highlights?
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: I think someone posted the transcript on the forums
<Habeas2>: Judging by the reactions, the fact that I announced my plan to kill Battle Value
<Trboturtle>: miss anything?
<JimDiGriz>: Herb, were you joking when you said you'd be killing it?
<xtrahmxwohld>: killing, or revising it?
<Habeas2>: Oh
<Habeas2>: I just noticed the time.
<mostrojoe>: oh here it is
<mostrojoe>: thanks
<Habeas2>: Hello, and welcome to the evening BattleChat
<mostrojoe>: goodnight to everyone from Rome
<mostrojoe>: my first battlechat
<mostrojoe>: an emotion
<mostrojoe>: Sorry I'm in time?
<mostrojoe>: too early?
<mostrojoe>: too late?
<Trboturtle>:
<Habeas2>: As usual, here are the basic rules for these chats: Be courteous, let others have a chance to ask questions. Be civil, don't make me kick you for being un-civil. I will answer all questions as well as I am able in the order presented.
<Fletch>: Is this chat being moderated by one of the cats again?
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: Herb, are there plans to upload the old Dark Age pilot dossiers and similar unsorted DA canon stuff to the main website?
<Habeas2>: Thank you for participating in this Catalyst Game Labs BattleTech Line Developer-Aided Public Relations Activity
<mostrojoe>: it seems I'm in time very well
<mostrojoe>: ehr...
<mostrojoe>: can I make a question yet?
<Habeas2>: This chat will continue until at least 9:15 PM (EDT). Question and Answer mode initiated.
<InigoMontoya>: Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You gave me questions. Prepare to answer.
<mostrojoe>: wonderful
<Habeas2>: Trboturtle, Mostrojoe - Youa re in time
<mostrojoe>: Herb will Interstellar Operations have the informations needed to run a merc command?
<mostrojoe>: I elaborate
<Euphonium>: Good evening Herb. What can you tell us about your plan to kill BV?
<mostrojoe>: Will it substitute and supersede the Mercenary Handbook?
<Habeas2>: JimDiGriz - No, I was not kidding.
<Trboturtle>: It involves hiring a hit man a long drive into the New Jersey badlnds.....
<Habeas2>: Xtrahmxwohld - Replacing it, which therefore means killing it.
<Habeas2>: Fletch - Not this time. At least, not yet.
<Habeas2>: TheWhiteLinconlnOsis - EVentually.
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: Noice.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Yes, it will
<xtrahmxwohld>: Do you have something in mind already?
<mostrojoe>: It will be possible to run some sort of "lazy commands"? hehehe I mean... there will be rules to adjudicate the outcome of a cadre mission?
<JimDiGriz>: Do you know what form the replacement for BV will take?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - The plan to kill BV stems from the fact that it has become overly complicated and has become an impedement to production. With no up-to-date software currently in official use, many of our efforts to compute BV are being done by hand, and no two calculators seem to reach the same conclusion.
<InigoMontoya>: May I ask you a question? I mean another one after this one? Here we go: what upcoming product do you think the fans will be most excited by?
<Fletch>: BV3 - use the stinky cheese rankings; 1. Pont l’Eveque 2. Camembert 3. Munster 4. Epoisses 5. Brie de Meaux 6. Roquefort 7. Limburger 8. Stinking Bishop 9. Stilton 10. Taleggio
<mostrojoe>: Or the rules to adjucate the outcome of a garrison mission (I mean, random events like attacks, or perhaps the garrison will slowly go on without events untile the expiring of the contract?)
<Fletch>: everyone loves cheese
<Habeas2>: As a result--and in expression of my frustration, I have chosen to do what I do best: Obliterate the extant system and order a start from scratch, with a new perspective on the function and purpose of the system, with an eye toward simplification and abstraction.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - The new Mercenary creation/operation rules in Interstellar Operations will, in fact, replace those of the previous sourcebooks.
<Euphonium>: Do you know if the new system will have modifiers for force size & pilot skill yet, or is it too early to ask for that sort of detail?
<Habeas2>: Xtrahmxwohld - Yes, I have something in mind, but at this time, I have my teams looking at it for other options.
<mostrojoe>: Is there any plan to make a better version of the "linked scenario" scenario that debuted in Combat Ops and that has been republished in StratOps?
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - It depends on the fans. In the months ahead, we can expect to see a little something for everyone (except for TROs)
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - The rules are still being drafted.
<Euphonium>: Which of the current projects are you most excited about at the moment?
<mostrojoe>: Is there any plan to release in the new wonderful format some sort of space map? To play with spaceships and erospace fighters?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - Too soon to be sure. Skills, at least, should be acounted for, but whether we will bother with a force modifier is open to debate.
<mib_3rv3nn>: Is the plan for BV 3.0 to be a "unit" value (value of that machine) or a value of unit that is part of a command (lance, company, star)?
<InigoMontoya>: I understand you are not a six-fingered man. This is good. Do you have any news on more plastic miniatures of the high quality?
<Tolan>: Any new news to report on the Clan box set?
<mostrojoe>: at least the space/atmosphere interface one would be very interesting
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: Habeas2, I must ask you a question: the last couple TROs have been mixed bags of vehicles, mechs, ships, etc. Are future TROs going to follow this pattern or might we see more "all-of-a-kind" TROs like 3026, 3057 or Vehicle Annex?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - It is possible. Interstellar Operations is supposed to wrap up all of the core rules we were not able to fit into the previous core rulebooks.
<JoeChummer>: Sorry I'm late. Did I miss anything interesting so far?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - The death of BV is now my current favorite project
<Euphonium>: LOL
<mostrojoe>: Great news
<JimDiGriz>: Are you hoping to have Interstellar Operations for next Gencon?
<Taurevanime>: Habeas2, TRO: Prototypes did away with the pages that differentiated between Inner Sphere and Clan versions of machines, but the machines were still ordered along those lines in the book. Was this done as a means of saving a little bit of paper to reduce cost without cutting any actual content from the book?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - A new space map will eventually come out, but for now, we do not have one in production
<Taurevanime>: Heh, Herb's favourite project all seem to involve the death of things.
<mostrojoe>: Do you have perhaps some ideas about new scenario types to add to the existing ones, or to finally give the existing scenarios a "space" treatment? I mean scenarios thought in particular for space battles or versions of the yet-existing scenarios to be fought in space
<Habeas2>: Mib_3rv3nn - Unit values, otherwise it would be useless.
<mib_v0d4zm>: Will there be a slow down on XTRO's
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - Costs and production of more high quality figures is prohibitive at this time. We are exploring options, but it's still too early to promise anything
<Habeas2>: Tolan - None. Sorry.
<Euphonium>: How are sales of PDF products doing compared to DTF? Is one format selling significantly better than the other?
<InigoMontoya>: My friend wants to ask a question. He would type it himself, but his fingers are too big. He wants to know if anybody wants a peanut. I want to know more about Field Manual 3085.
<Habeas2>: TheWHiteLincolnOsis - We have found that specialized TROs do not sell very well at all, and thus do not plan to make any more in the future.
<Fletch>: *fishing* Will WoR supplemental be pdf only and what timelines/content are we possibly looking at? */fishing*
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - You missed quite a bit, but don't let that stop you
<Habeas2>: JimDiGriz - Oh, I HOPE for a great many things....
<mostrojoe>: There will ever be an official positive and negative quirks list?
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - Yes.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Not really; space is not an area I invest a lot of my focus in.
<mostrojoe>: Can you tell us what will be the next main theme in the hexpack series?
<Habeas2>: Mib_v0d4zm - Yes. And possibly even a hiatus.
<Trboturtle>: well, off to yell at the Eagles! Bye!
<JimDiGriz>: Are you trying to have Interstellar Operations for next Gencon?
<Euphonium>: How many more XTROs dare there planned at the moment?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - PDF sales are actually quite excellent versus print product. But i is hard to say which is excelling over the other
<mostrojoe>: (oh what a pity, me and a feriend of mine did a space campaign of pirate hunting, it was a pain to invent everytime how to setup a different scenario)
<Habeas2>: Fletch - It will be PDF exclusively.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - ANything is possible.
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: Herb, is that old list of planned XTROs still accurate?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Mountains and Canyons
<Habeas2>: JimDiGriz - I cannot promise street dates; you know this.
<mostrojoe>: if an official quirks list will ever be done, it will a downloadable .pdf or they will be pointed in the relative TROs sheets?
<mostrojoe>: mountains and canyons... great
<Klep_>: i love the hexpacks
<Euphonium>: Have you considered doing digital sourcebooks/TROs in any format other than PDF? ePub or mobi for Kindle/Nook-type devices, for example?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - There are, at present, nine more XTRs in the queue.
<InigoMontoya>: Soner Herb, are you a PC gamer? Will you be participating in the new MechWarrior game when it releases?
<JoeChummer>: Has anyone asked about novels yet? *braces for thrown tomatoes and copies of AToW*
<TheOldGuy>: when (eg. post-FM 3085) do you expect to start moving the battletech timeline (ie. post A Bonfire of Worlds) forward, and do you anticipate that to be with novels or sourcebooks?
<Habeas2>: TheWhiteLincolnOsis - Sure. Plus a few extras.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - It would most likely be a download for now.
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - No. I haven't.
<Klep_>: Habeas: have you guys been able to make any improvements on the record sheet creation process? I know it was still the holdup on the latest XTRO
<mostrojoe>: Will Interstellar Ops give you the possibility to put you in command of a pirate band if you like the idea?
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - Yes, I am, but I have not gamed on-line (outside of some Facebook games) for quite a few months.
<mostrojoe>: And to run your little pirate realm (as far as the regular armies will permit that...)
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - They asked this afternoon. The answer is still "we're working on it"
<Taurevanime>: Habeas2 when it comes to the Objectives series of books, will the major periphery factions be done in a single book, or spread across multiple?
<Habeas2>: TheOldGuy - Late 2012
<Fletch>: Unit design question - When you designed the Hellstar were you having a 'this will upset the apple-cart' moment?
<Habeas2>: TheOldGuy - Correction. Late 2013.
<TheOldGuy>: so the gap between now and then will be filled with wrapping up the Jihad and?
<Habeas2>: Klep_ - Yes. We're dropping BV from them.
<Klep_>: hehe, sounds good
<Jones>: Touching on the BV thing quickly- other than the complexity, was there anything else giving the devs fits, like getting each factions toys to balance off each other in a reasonable manner?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Honestly, if you can run a mercenary outfit, you can run a pirate band. The principles are the same.
<Habeas2>: mostrojoe - Pirate realms are up to what the strategic syste allows.
<JoeChummer>: So is BV actually going away sometime in the future, or is this a joke I just didn't pick up on?
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - All as one PDF
<Habeas2>: Fletch - No.
<mostrojoe>: And will Interstellar Operations deal with something never seen before, like running a corporation, raising up you personal security force? Manage your corporation?
<Habeas2>: TheOldGuy - Actually, we are working on the last of the Jihad wrap-up projects right now. The bulk of 2012 will explore the First Star League period a little more.
<TheOldGuy>: ok thanks
<JoeChummer>: And by First Star League, you mean the Fall of Terra Historicals? Or something else entirely?
<Habeas2>: Jones - No; just the inability of two calculators/computers/spreadsheets/guys with pencils to come up with the same number for the same unit.
<InigoMontoya>: Miracle Max wants to know: is the Universe Book is still planned, or has been given the ax?
<mostrojoe>: There are sone new things seen in StratOps that really are between my favourites, like the preparation of a take off or the deep space encounter ruleset. There will be something really new, never before dealt with in Interstellar Operations?
<Fletch>: What do you see the major milestone being in 2012 (apart from surviving 2012)?
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - Yes; we are reconfiguring our product line for 2012 to enhance support for the late STar League period, as exemplified by the Fall of Terra Historicals.
<Tolan>: Have you any new from Mr. Raisley and any progress On A new HMP?
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - In all probability, the Universe book will be repurposed.
<Euphonium>: On the subject of RS design, is there any contact between yourselves & HeavyMetalPro v6?
<Euphonium>: Ooops - Tolan beat me to it...
<JoeChummer>: Did the Fall of Terra books take the place of something else on the schedule? I thought they were already on next year's docket...?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - The main focal points of IO will be interstellar-scale warfare, the force creation/management rules, and rules to support alternative era campaigns.
<Habeas2>: Fletch - The biggest milestone of 2012 will be Interstellar Operations
<mostrojoe>: And do you thin that in future you will produce something that will permit to deal with Corprations?
<InigoMontoya>: If you had to choose a rock group to do a Battletech concept album, who would it be?
<Habeas2>: Tolan - Mr. Raisley continues to work on it, yes.
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - Yes
<mostrojoe>: There will be some special event or some special item to celebrate the complete publication of the core system (from Total warfare to IntOps)?
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - The entire schedule for 2012 was reworked after we had some discussions about it at GenCon. Originally, it was our plan to start the transition to Dark Age in 2012, and have us caught up to the events in Bonfire of Worlds by year's end, but we have chosen to slow that process down a little bit.
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: I'm really glad you decided to go that route. I love the Dark Age, but it definitely needs some smoothing over.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - this is BattleTech, not Shadowrun, and certainly not the US political system. Corporations are background fluff, not the core of the setting.
<JoeChummer>: That's good. More time to digest things.
<Fletch>: Is CGL and Piranha Games looking to create a merchandising range on the back of the publicity? More BT shirts styled on the ThinkGeek model would be cool!
<Klep_>: heh, that gives me another year to collect the dark age novels
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - Judas Priest
<mostrojoe>: I wanted to make a joke about Shadowrun, but you beaten me
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Maybe, but I may slip into coma before we get there
<Klep_>: are there any plans for an official AtoW character creator like shadowrun has?
<Euphonium>: how much detail are you planning to cover Dark Age in? Should I be anticipating a single source book along the lines of Era Report: Dark Age, or a larger product(s)?
<Habeas2>: Fletch - I'm sure it's being considered, but merchandizing is actually outside of my department
<Habeas2>: Klep_ - Perhaps, if anyone wants to make one.
<mostrojoe>: Will the foam bags of Battletech be the start of some sort of very modern wargaming accessories series? Official templates, tokens and other things like that...
<Taurevanime>: Wouldn't Republic era be the first one before the Dark Age?
<Euphonium>: "I fought for Stone in the Jihad but all I got was this lousy t-shirt...!"
<Fletch>: Euphonium FTW
<mostrojoe>: Why putting in Vehicle Annex vehciles like trucks for troops if the mechanized wheeled rules cover them yet? Do you think that the vehicle annex will remain an isolate experiment?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - There are no less than seven sourcebooks and at least one key PDF planned for the transition from post-Jihad to the Dark Age and into the post-Dark Age setting.
<Euphonium>: Wow...
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - We hope so
<JoeChummer>: Seven? Nice. I was only expecting two or so.
<mostrojoe>: Great!
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - Technically, the Republic age IS the Dark Age
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - For now, the Vehicle Annex remains an experiment we consider only partially successful.
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - Yes. Seven.
<Euphonium>: How do you feel about the new website, now it's been up for a while?
<Fletch>: Have Clan Hell's Horses secretly maintained contact with the Star Adders?
<TheOldGuy>: why are RSs such a holdup? Not a criticism, but as the stats already exist (and I'm sure must be checked), what happens that slows that process down?
<mostrojoe>: I loved the vehicle annex TRO anyway
<Fletch>: Vehs are cool
<Euphonium>: Are there any more books on the Homeworld Clans in the pipeline?
<Taurevanime>: Wait so everything between the founding of the Republic of the Sphere and Fortress Republic all count as Dark Age as well?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - I am completely ambivalent about websites. I keep my nose to the word processors.
<JoeChummer>: Are there any of the those seven you can give us (tentative) titles for, or are they still in the initial planning stage?
<Habeas2>: Fletch - No
<InigoMontoya>: Superheavy Mechs. Do you plan to introduce more besides the upcoming Ares?
<General308>: Herb. But basicly the last 10 years has been historical prodoucts (ie we knew who would win). Why so many more products before we start getting virgin unkown timeline again?
<JimDiGriz>: Many battlechats ago, you said that you planned to have dramatic changes in some of the technologies of the BT universe in the coming centuries. Does that include jumpships?
<Klep_>: general: i'm glad of it
<Habeas2>: TheOldGuy - Quality control. Battle Value. A set of new standards. The lack of automated software to generate the sheets (Many are done by hand even now).
<mostrojoe>: When IntOps will be over you will go on to develop the story arc and the depth of universe? You think that some tweaking or change of the actual rules may happen in the next 3-4 years?
<Klep_>: we only know the barest details of what happens between 3080 and 3130
<Taurevanime>: Speaking of word processors, what programs do you use to do most of your work on Herb?
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - Maybe one.
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - Basically after 3085 is classified as "Dark Age".
<mostrojoe>: Montoya asked agood thing: are there plans to effectively introduce super-heavy mechs (I hope not)
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - Field Manual 3150; Era Report 3150; Technical Readout: 3150
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - Yes. There will be more Colossi
<JoeChummer>: Do those books cover the Interregnum as well, or just circa 3130--3150?
<Tolan>: Will the colossi be production or one offs like the Ares and Omega?
<Euphonium>: Can we expect to see a DropShip with mech bays big enough for Colossi, or can they be squeezed into std mech bays?
<TheOldGuy>: interesting... and I'll second the demand for HW products!
<Habeas2>: General308 - Our fan base has shown an active interest in all eras of play, from Age of War through the Dark Age. It is our plan to explore all of these eras, so that nobody has to feel completely constrained by the current plot arcs (how many players do you know who ONLY play 3025? How many ONLY want to play Clan Invasion? How many wish they could avoid the Jihad? The Dark Age? We give them the options.)
<mostrojoe>: Branded binder for the gaming sheets would be interesting...
<Habeas2>: JimDIGriz - That includes everything.
<krazzyharry>: Will CGL have the rights to republish the limited stories and in-universe reports that were available on WizKids website ( I would love to see the end of the Bannson's Raiders storyline)
<JoeChummer>: I will second the comment about Homeworlds products
<Fletch>: Herb, your favourite pizza topping and supplier?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - The BattleTech universe has survived with basically the same core rules since its inception over 25 years ago, and it's THAT fanbase who has sustained it. Any "tweaks" we make will amount to corrections and streamlining of that core system, rather than a whole new system.
<mostrojoe>: are you a smoker Herb?
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - Microsoft Word 2000and 2007
<Fletch>: a third on the Homeworld products, need to see how the Lions fare
<General308>: Herb. I agree with what you are saying and undertand the value of historical products. In fact I like historical products. But why not do them has historical products and go ahead and move to fresh timeline at the same time.....I admit I would prefer to skip Darkages
<mostrojoe>: MM so I bet no new, advanced and improved rules about conventional infantry...
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - One book will cover the Interbellum between the Jihad and the 3130s, yes.
<mostrojoe>: (I anyway like the 80% of the actual system)
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Yes, there will be more Colossi (Superheavy Mechs)
<Habeas2>: Tolan - They will be production units. One-offs are reserved mainly for XTR treatment
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - Maybe we will. Not sure.
<InigoMontoya>: Interbellum - You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
<Habeas2>: TheOldGuy - HW?
<Taurevanime>: Herb what has been your favourite, and what has been your least favourite project to work on?
<Habeas2>: Krazzyharry - Technically, we have those rights already. The Touring the Stars articles at least, were available on our site
<mostrojoe>: Do you think CGL staff will ever be in Europe for some convention in 2012?
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: I loved the Interstellar Players books. Are there plans to make any more?
<Habeas2>: Fletch - Pepperoni and bacon. I have no great preference of locla suppliers here
<xtrahmxwohld>: How are the the 100+ ton mechs going to be referred to, super-heavy, collosal or both?
<JoeChummer>: "Interbellum" sounds to me like "the period between wars"
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - No
<InigoMontoya>: Who is the favorite of your writers, and who would you ship off to the albino's dungeon?
<mostrojoe>: What is a rule that you hate the way it is but, for motivations said a lot of times, you had to keep the way it is?
<Fletch>: What assistance can CGL provide local gaming groups. We are looking at the Demo Team application, but with a bunch of guys around 40 with kids it will take a while before we are at that stage.
<mostrojoe>: There will be a new line of miniature in the 25/28mm range to use in skirmish games involving infantry?
<Habeas2>: General308 - The reason for the historical year we're heading into is a matter of some internal scheduling, and a desire to give better support to a period in BT history many consider to be of supreme interest. After 6 years of Jihad product, consider it a breather.
<General308>: Any new type of products we haven't seen before that we can expect.
<mostrojoe>: A new Battletroops game, after AToW treatment, is definitively not on the CGL radar?
<Euphonium>: Will there be any sourcebook-type project that ties in to the MWOnline PC game?
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - Interbellum = The time between wars. Inter (between) Bellum (of or pertaining to war). See also Cassius Belli (reason for war)
<mostrojoe>: there will ever be giant monsters to fight, like in one of the old hot spots sourcebook scenarios?
<JimDiGriz>: I don't recall any giant monsters.
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - It is very hard for me to choose a favorite project nowadays. Once, I felt that Operation: Flashpoint was my best work. Then it was Handbook: House Steiner. Then it was A Time of War. Ask a parent who their favorite kid is, and unless they're messed in the head, they couldn't tell you.
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - Least favorite project, though? Battle Value
<InigoMontoya>: Well, you haven't said "inconceivable"!
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Someday.
<General308>: Jim hotspots had Dinosaurs on one world and the dragons that the infantry now use
<mostrojoe>: Interstellar Operations will give an experience progression for your support troops? I mean there will be a possibility to manage effectively logistic personnels? Or to see a convoy mission of some sorts? I liked the fluff story about the J-27 crews.
<Habeas2>: TheWHiteLincolnOsis - There is, in fact, another pseudo-IP book on our schedule, so yes.
<TheWhiteLincolnOsis>: BUENO
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - DOn't make me choose between my writers; they actually read the logs you people keep!
<mostrojoe>: You would like to alter and clarify then someday the rules about conventional infantry?
<Habeas2>: mostrojoe - Many. There are a great many rules that have been kept because they were too core to dump.
<Habeas2>: Fletch - The Catalyst Demo Teams' leader, Mike "Southpaw" Miller, would be the best person to ask about that.
<Taurevanime>: Well a final and easy question from me. How are your kitty overlords doing Herb?
<Fletch>: thanks
<mostrojoe>: "Many. There are a great many rules that have been kept because they were too core to dump" like.... ?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - That would be something for Iron WInd Metals to consider. It's all about resources and affordability, after all.
<Fletch>: anything that happened in the Jihad you didn't like or wish had been done differently?
<Habeas2>: General308 - Yes; you can expect many years of new product that you have not yet seen.
<Habeas2>: MostroJoe - Technically, you have the new BattleTroops game in AToW already. The standard and tactical combat rules are sreamlined for fast-as-possible play, and even include tips for integration with tactical units.
<mostrojoe>: Can you make an exemple or give a hint about the new sort of products not seen before you are talking about? Something to make us buzz a little
<Habeas2>: Euphonium - No tie-in product with the MWO game in planned at this time (unless Loren's doing it as some side project and neglected to tell me, which I can't rule out no matter how hard I try....)_
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Yes
<JimDiGriz>: I have to go. Thanks for taking our questions, Herb.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - I think support troop skill advancement is already covered in Strategic Operations.
<mostrojoe>: Are you considering some good move to expand in the European market? You are (for obvious reasons of course) very focused on North American marketing
<InigoMontoya>: We understand that novels are a problem. How about a novel disguised as a sourcebook, or an anthology like Shrapnel?
<Euphonium>: Thanks Herb. I just got this mental image of a BT Box Set with the legend "MechWarrior OFFline" on it
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - There's only so much focus we plan to take away from Mechs; BattleTech is still primarily a big robots game. Infantry is nice and all, but not the star of the show.
<Habeas2>: Taurevanime - They're all fine, and totally oblivious to the fact that their canine sibling will soon be returning to them.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - WarShips
<Taurevanime>: Oh my God, I had no idea Herb got a dog!
<Habeas2>: Fletch - Apparently I didn't murder enough fictional characters, and I really wish we could have destroyed House Davion.
<JoeChummer>: Another obligatory question: Clan box set...?
<Habeas2>: Fletch - I mean, it's not like the haven't actually BEGGED for that kind of fate.
<Taurevanime>: You can't destroy House Davion Herb, they bedded every other house in fiction by now. Crazy horndogs.
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - You want a buzz? Really? Here it is: "IlClan"
<mostrojoe>: Do you think there will ever be a definitive change at the helm of one of the successor houses? federated Suns with another ruling dinasty for an exemple?
<mostrojoe>: Gosh
<General308>: Herb what brad catnip do the writers...i mean cats prefer?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Our product expansions into other markets are largely above my pay grade. My job is to keep product rolling.
<Habeas2>: InigoMontoya - You mean like the BattleCorps Anthologies?
<JoeChummer>: ilClan? That doesn't get trotted out very often
<Fletch>: I agree, all the fanboi factions and clans should get what is coming to them
<InigoMontoya>: I do not understand the hatred for House Davion. They were the POV faction for years, which for some reason makes people, writers included, hate them. It's like hating Luke Skywalker for being in Star Wars.
<Habeas2>: JoeChummer - I cannot discuss the Clan Box Set Expansion
<TheOldGuy>: in the next year or two are there plans for any new products lines - in the sense that "Era Reports", "Historicals" are product lines? (btw, by HW I'd meant "Homeworlds" and was just seconding a call for more product!)
<mostrojoe>: Oh a question... in StartOps it is said that the Stechs are taken from a common pool, there will be any hint in StratOPS ABOUT HOW THIS Pool will be developed and used in foreign worlds? During an invasion for an exemple? German troops would had not found mechanics in the invaded Russia for an exemple
<Habeas2>: Tauevanime - The more you say it, the more I plan to prove you wrong.
<mostrojoe>: *Astechs
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Yes. Oh, yes, there will be changes.
<Habeas2>: General308 - They prefer organic catnip. Of course, I've no idea what "inorganic" catnip would be, so....
<Taurevanime>: I am just saying Herb, that is a mighty big list of people in universe that have Davion genes swimming around inside their gene pool. XD
<mostrojoe>: Changes! Fantastic! This a GOOD thing to hear (Montoya Davion is just an exemple I have chosen federated Suns as faction )
<mib_v0d4zm>: any news on "WOR sumplement"
<Habeas2>: TheOldGuy - None, really. In fact, we will be shutting down one sourcebook series this year when Handbook: House Kurita finally comes out.
<Euphonium>: Well, it's after 2 a.m. here, so I need to call it a night. Thankyou Herb for taking time to do this chat.
>>>>[You're only jealous because the voices don't talk to you]<<<<

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #18 on: 20 November 2011, 23:25:36 »
What was that Jihad era novel that was never finished called? 
Not sure if "Shadows of Faith" was ever completed but I believe what exist of it is on Battlecorp.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #19 on: 20 November 2011, 23:50:21 »
Did Herb just say "Ilclan"?????  So I'm not going to sleep tonight.


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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #20 on: 21 November 2011, 00:07:42 »
Here is the other part of the Battlechat.


<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Yes, there should be.
<mostrojoe>: Another question, I do not want to be nitpicky but... there will be rules in IntOps to train and raise guerrilla forces on foreign, enemy worlds?
<InigoMontoya>: No offense intended or taken.  It simply makes an old Spaniard scratch his head.  Or maybe that's the fleas...
<Habeas2>: Mib_v0d4zm - Ben Rome is still working on it.
<Habeas2>: 5 minutes left
<General308>: The wife will be glad to year Handbook Kurita is going to come out
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Likely. Cannot say with certainty.
<Fletch>: Will the FWL fracture again or post Jihad have they escaped being the 'whipping boy'?
<Klep_>: will we ever learn what became of arthur steiner-davion? forgive me if you've answered this somehwere before
<mostrojoe>: So conventional infantry will not see a streamlined rule system soon... that's the only bad news I've heard tonight
<Klep_>: (i find that the most frustrating of the oustanding mysteries)
<Habeas2>: Fletch - If anything, it gets worse.
<mostrojoe>: I hope we are not going to see aliens in BT Herb
<Habeas2>: Klep_ - I have not decided.
<Klep_>: fair enough
<General308>: Herb I don't have the book up but the PAL in the Battlemech thing.  Why does the mech need new Gyo?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - The tactical rules in AToW are still not sleek enough for you?
<General308>: no not new...sory
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Oh, definitely not. I reserve those for other universes
<mostrojoe>: Do you think there will ever be some boardgame set in the battletech universe? Something like Star Crusade for Warhammer 40.000
<Fletch>: great, time to dust off the semi-guided lrm's
<Habeas2>: General308 - The Gestalt? It's basically what happens when the Word of Blake builds a ProtoMech. The pilot himself becomes te gyro.
<mostrojoe>: (no well I was thinking to what -sorry- is for me a total mess, the introduction and implementation of melee weapons in the BT scale game)
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Yes
<mostrojoe>: Great news
<mostrojoe>: great news
<Habeas2>: 1 minute
<Klep_>: man, i would love a Succession Wars update, so that's awesome
<Taurevanime>: Herb care to tell us a little about your dog? Or is it your cats dog?
<Habeas2>: LAST CALL FOR QUESTIONS!
<General308>: Yea but isn't that basicly what a Nero helmet does?  forgive my worse than normal spelling surgery the other day paing killer getting to me
<Jones>: If the handbook series is ending with Kurita, does that mean that the Field Manuals / Era Reports are going to get thicker, or would specific books like the Jihad Hot Spots Series take up the slack on information?
<InigoMontoya>: Have you worked out stats or rules for the "quadvee" mentioned in Technology of Destruction?
<mostrojoe>: Thank you a lot herb for your kind answers, looking really forward to IntOps, hope you will survive the mission
<Fletch>: are we there yet? *ducks*
<Klep_>: yes, thanks herb
<Habeas2>: The dog is Logan. He's a shetland sheepdog (sheltie) my wife picked up about 3 years ago, b ut can no longer care for now that we are divorcing. So, I'm getting him because he is already comfortable with me and the cats.
<Taurevanime>: Sorry to hear about the divorce.
<mostrojoe>: AH! One last thing! Any rule for riots and police in the incoming products?
<mostrojoe>: Riots was one of the mercenary missions
<General308>: Herb very sorry to here about the Divorce
<mostrojoe>: it will be the possibility to use materials seen in the vehciles annex
<mostrojoe>: and police 'emchs are cool
<Habeas2>: General308 - Not really, no. The neurohelmet helps, but essentially communicates the "balance points" for a gyro to work from, and then the Gyro and DI work to stabilize the Mech dynamically. The Word of Blake Machina Domini system takes their implant technology to such a ridiculous level that even a gyro's use is obviated by its presence.
<mostrojoe>: sorry for typos
<Habeas2>: Jones - When you see Field Manual: 3085, you'll see what we hope to be the typical size for Field Manuals from here on out.
<Habeas2>: Fletch - Don't make me turn this chat around, Mister!
<TheOldGuy>: I really enjoyed the Blake Documents and Interstellar Players series, partcularly ISP2, when do you anticipate a next product in this style will be out?  2013?
<mostrojoe>: I like the ambulances and firefighters doing their share of duty during the aftermath of a devastating raid
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - If so, they will be abstract.
<General308>: Forgot about the MD implants.  Thanks herb
<Habeas2>: TheOldGuy - Maybe late 2012
<TheOldGuy>: ok, thanks Herb for the time
<Habeas2>: Alright, folks.
<Taurevanime>: Anyway I will raise you glass in celebration of the death of BV! May something better come from it's demise.
<InigoMontoya>: Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya.  You killed my questions.  Prepare to Bye.
<Jones>: cheers!
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #21 on: 21 November 2011, 02:41:07 »
Yea! New BV/CV system!

I agree with some of the other critics points, especially C3 networks.

But we've also found it, as a whole, so imbalanced in Clan vs IS fights, that our group has refused the entire transition and still plays with BV1. It makes life harder when guestimating BV for the new equipment, but as a collective, we found that Clan mediums just don't stand up that well against an equivalently sized force of IS Assaults.  :P

Anyway, looking forward to continued updqates.
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willydstyle

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #22 on: 21 November 2011, 03:07:29 »
Yea! New BV/CV system!

I agree with some of the other critics points, especially C3 networks.

But we've also found it, as a whole, so imbalanced in Clan vs IS fights, that our group has refused the entire transition and still plays with BV1. It makes life harder when guestimating BV for the new equipment, but as a collective, we found that Clan mediums just don't stand up that well against an equivalently sized force of IS Assaults.  :P

Anyway, looking forward to continued updqates.

I find the problem with Clan vs. IS is playing the 138% for 3/4 regulars for the clans.  Stick with 4/5 vs. 4/5 and you'll see that BV2 actually does a pretty good job at balancing the equipment costs vs. one another.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #23 on: 21 November 2011, 04:07:13 »
Exactly, I assumed 3/4 clan pilots were implied. If you're going to play with their toys, you oughta hafta play with their boys.

One thing that baffles me is Clan vehicle pilots. 5/6? I always assumed that 4/5 was an average human receiving average combat training, no more, no less. Take anyone, give them basic training, and boom: 4/5.

Making clan Vee pilots 5/6 has always bred jokes around the table that they're failed test tube babies, that they flunked out of the janitor caste, or that they hate their roles as vehicle pilots so much that they never, ever get in them other than when they have to drive them in battle.

Thankfully we just paint our vees red and call them Blood Spirits.
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willydstyle

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #24 on: 21 November 2011, 04:10:35 »
The game is just a game. If you want a fair, fun, fight, a lot of the time you have to leave the fiction at the door.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #25 on: 21 November 2011, 12:04:16 »
One thing that baffles me is Clan vehicle pilots. 5/6? I always assumed that 4/5 was an average human receiving average combat training, no more, no less. Take anyone, give them basic training, and boom: 4/5.

Hmmm, no. 4/5 reflects a "regular" warrior or soldier -- somebody who, while not standing out, has been in the field for a while already. Somebody who's only just finished basic training would be decidedly still "green", which I seem to recall 5/6 is about typical for.

And I think that's part of the reason why Clan vehicle crews rate so low -- with both their training and their chances to actually see combat suffering from widespread anti-vee prejudice, plus the fact that the Clans forever seem to preach individual achievements even at the expense of teamwork (now imagine a Trial of Grievance between your tank's gunners about who stole whose kill...), I'd imagine that the majority of them are actually pretty green even by Inner Sphere standards. They could probably get up to 4/5 easily enough with a bit of experience under their belts, but which proud Clan MechWarrior is going to voluntarily step aside and let them get that at the expense of his or her own share of the glory?

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #26 on: 21 November 2011, 12:36:19 »
Man, Inigo Montoya killed it.  I bet he was waiting the whole time for that last line.  Hilarious!

Frostfly

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #27 on: 21 November 2011, 12:58:01 »
wait...Stilton was rated higher then stinking bishop?   I call foul.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #28 on: 21 November 2011, 13:23:22 »
I'm genuinely surprised there's not more chatter about the death of BV2.0. Regardless of the opinions about it, that's a fairly big bomb for Herb to drop during chat. The fact that anything was said at all makes me curious how far along the replacement is in the development process.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #29 on: 21 November 2011, 13:50:37 »
I'm genuinely surprised there's not more chatter about the death of BV2.0. Regardless of the opinions about it, that's a fairly big bomb for Herb to drop during chat. The fact that anything was said at all makes me curious how far along the replacement is in the development process.

I'm sure the debate will go full swing once we've gotten word on how the new system will work. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the silence and the smiles on
everyone's face now that it is on death row. And this is coming from someone who thought BV2 was the most balanced system we've had so far. Even then,
it was a monster to do by hand- when the neatest perks of the MUL is that it can do pilot skill calculations for you, it speaks volumes on what a pain in the
neck BV2 could be.


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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #30 on: 21 November 2011, 14:22:54 »
I'm more curious about his statement that future TRO/Record Sheets won't contain it. That sounds like it will be dropped before the new system is in place. And I could see that leading to some hilarious matchups.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #31 on: 21 November 2011, 14:56:00 »
In my group it'll mean that new units won't be used at all until the new system is fully implemented, including a near-complete point list like the MUL.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #32 on: 21 November 2011, 18:57:08 »
I'm genuinely surprised there's not more chatter about the death of BV2.0. Regardless of the opinions about it, that's a fairly big bomb for Herb to drop during chat. The fact that anything was said at all makes me curious how far along the replacement is in the development process.

Well, for now there was nothing more to say. The BV is dying... ok. Let's await the next system.

willydstyle

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #33 on: 21 November 2011, 19:40:21 »
The problem is if they get rid of BV2 without having the next system *fully* integrated into the MUL, TROs and record sheets. Don't get rid of something that works well (albeit clunkily, and with some quirks) until you have the replacement ready.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #34 on: 21 November 2011, 20:04:08 »
That's the thing - it doesn't work well.  One of the problems Herb specifically listed was the tendency towards inconsistent results in calculation.  Two people calculating the same unit would get two different numbers.  It apparently even happens in programs designed to calculate it.  That says there is an inherent flaw in the calculating system, and it throws every single published BV into doubt.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #35 on: 22 November 2011, 09:21:23 »
It's not an inherent flaw, it's just that there are so many corner cases where the wording is not 100% clear, and that you can't catch all those corner cases when writing the formulas up the first time, just as they happen, and then you have to errata the wording time and time again.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #36 on: 22 November 2011, 11:26:17 »
I never used the BV too often anyway...

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #37 on: 22 November 2011, 12:06:52 »
In my group it'll mean that new units won't be used at all until the new system is fully implemented, including a near-complete point list like the MUL.

I am curious why, Weirdo? My group basicly gave up on Battlevalue a long time ago because it breaks down. Heck, I saw at the
Grand Melee at GenCon this year that Battlevalue really didn't balance it out. One 'mech should NOT be engaged by 3 'mechs,
and leave them all hurting before it goes down...if you have 3 times the battle value on one unit, that one unit should go down
HARD.

Battle Value is so flawed, its death is necessary. I can usually balance better by eyeballing the 'mechs, vehicles, and infantry,
and who they are getting assigned to then BattleValue ever could.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #38 on: 22 November 2011, 12:52:53 »
Our group uses 6k max for a BV2 fight as a way of keeping players somewhat balanced.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #39 on: 22 November 2011, 12:58:20 »
Our group uses 6k max for a BV2 fight as a way of keeping players somewhat balanced.

...you mean the player's respective forces, right? ;)

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #40 on: 22 November 2011, 13:00:16 »
No every player has a weight limit, if you're over 6k you're out.  ;D
We play on a mountaintop with a very dangerous slope, its the cool way to play extreme Battletech.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #41 on: 22 November 2011, 13:04:32 »
Battle Value is so flawed, its death is necessary. I can usually balance better by eyeballing the 'mechs, vehicles, and infantry,
and who they are getting assigned to then BattleValue ever could.

And how to do you balance two different people's "eyeballing"?  Or do you just never allow player's to bring their own forces?  Or do they bring them and then you say "nope, that's too much, i'm taking away your X 'mechs or lowering X 'mechs skills because I think so"? 
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #42 on: 22 November 2011, 13:05:41 »
And how to do you balance two different people's "eyeballing"?  Or do you just never allow player's to bring their own forces?  Or do they bring them and then you say "nope, that's too much, i'm taking away your X 'mechs or lowering X 'mechs skills because I think so"?

Obviously, his eyeballing is the best eyeballing :D

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #43 on: 22 November 2011, 13:09:16 »
Obviously, his eyeballing is the best eyeballing :D

But his eyeballs can only be in one place at a time.  :).  What I'm saying is there is an entire style of play that requires some, external to any one set of eyeballs, balancing factor that each player can determine for themselves and know that the other players will at least recognize that they followed the rules of that style of play for balancing a force.  Not everybody, nor necessarily a majority of players, may play that way, but it's still fairly significant.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #44 on: 22 November 2011, 13:15:01 »
I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post.  The human brain bases so much of its reasoning on internal biases, that I agree with you: what looks "pretty good" to one player might not look good to another player, and it's very, very difficult to *not* stack the deck in our own favor, again simply due to how our brains work.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #45 on: 22 November 2011, 13:24:53 »
I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post.  The human brain bases so much of its reasoning on internal biases, that I agree with you: what looks "pretty good" to one player might not look good to another player, and it's very, very difficult to *not* stack the deck in our own favor, again simply due to how our brains work.

I got it, I wanted to provoke more discussion.  While some styles of play work for individuals, as a group I believe we should want the game to support more styles of play that just that which we play as an individual.  (Though we obviously want our style of play done right and first! :) ).  The random pickup game, tournament, megamek wars, etc are significant contributors to the BattleTech player base, and assuming a goal of a larger player base, they should be supported. 

So even if you (generic, not refering to any one specifically) don't play with BV or any other numeric balancing system, there are advantages to you from a larger player base for BattleTech having such a system.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #46 on: 22 November 2011, 13:32:57 »
Yes, I agree, because it allows you to game with people who don't share your unique vision.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #47 on: 22 November 2011, 13:55:29 »
Herb also said he wants something more abstract.

Could this mean a move to a letter grade style of ranking?

Something liek the availability tables for an individual piece of equipment?

If a timber wolf was a rank A mech, would that tell you enough vs a rank C summoner variant?

Would it be worth while to have those sub-divisions for various stats? Offense, Durability, speed, equipment/extras, logisitcs?

so would a Timber wolf Prime be A/B/C/E/B?

Where should the line of simplification and abstraction be drawn?

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #48 on: 22 November 2011, 13:57:04 »
I think the game itself has a large enough "luck factor" that having a fairly abstract system would be just fine.  BV2 only brings a rough balance to the game, but I *like* having that rough balance.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #49 on: 22 November 2011, 17:38:15 »
I was hoping for a slightly more restricted unit selection system, like Mega Mek.

Right now, when you build a force that is "legal" it restricts the amount of Infantry, Vehicles, and Aero that can be used in direct correlation to the number of mechs you are fielding. They've even restricted the number of Assault mechs you can field in relation to the number of other weight classes at one time or another.

Games Workshop developed a "Force Organization Chart" in it's games to prevent abuse of over powerful units such as Heavy support choices (units with an over abundance of Heavy Weapons, battle tanks), fast attack choices (units with high mobility and firepower), and HQ choices (single model characters with the power to wipe out whole squads or change the flow of the game using other powers), among other things.

I'm not saying that CGL should try to mirror GW, but they should definitely consider some type of "army list" that will allow players to field fair and balanced forces when playing competitive pick up games vs a campaign. As it was pointed out, fairness may be in the eye of the beholder when playing against someone else.

A new BV system may be the beginning, but I believe it is only part of a true long term solution.
« Last Edit: 23 November 2011, 01:16:21 by Wraithcannon »
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #50 on: 23 November 2011, 00:13:33 »
And how to do you balance two different people's "eyeballing"?  Or do you just never allow player's to bring their own forces?  Or do they bring them and then you say "nope, that's too much, i'm taking away your X 'mechs or lowering X 'mechs skills because I think so"?

Well, considering my group does scenario play, very little in the way of "pick up games," that is part of it..playing what the scenario
gives you.

Additionally, since we have the capability to print up stuff on the spot, when we do do stuff that allows players to pick..eh, well,
frankly, we stick with our group standard of 3G/4P skills, and let the players pick what they want. In my experience, as long as all
the pilot skills are the same, the fight is balanced. If you cannot beat an Atlas II with an LCT-1M when you picked the LCT knowing
you were facing the Atlas II...then that is your fault. Player skill is the biggest variable that no system like Battlevalue, Combat Value,
etc can adequately account for, and will always be the real determination of which side is going to win or lose.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #51 on: 23 November 2011, 03:43:49 »
Player skill is the biggest variable that no system like Battlevalue, Combat Value,
etc can adequately account for, and will always be the real determination of which side is going to win or lose.

Of course they can't account for player skill. That's not what they're for in the first place, after all; they're there to help make the game "fair" precisely so player skill can be the deciding factor in the outcome.

If you truly want to account for differences in playing skill, you can always ask the better player (assuming that's established) if they're willing to handicap themselves. But that's not something a force rating system needs to concern itself overmuch with; ideally it should be able to provide both players with a good idea of what a given handicap is actually "worth", but that's about it.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #52 on: 23 November 2011, 04:13:59 »
Of course they can't account for player skill. That's not what they're for in the first place, after all; they're there to help make the game "fair" precisely so player skill can be the deciding factor in the outcome.

Actually: they are supposed to make the game even. The problem is: If I were to Mirror Match one of my newer players,
chances are that, unless I deliberately made mistakes, I would win. For it to be a fair fight, I would have to take a
different 'mech..say, I have a player running an Atlas, I would have to, to be fair, run a Vindicator just so he would
have a chance...note: that is a Vindicator with the same skill level as his Atlas, likely on an open map.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #53 on: 23 November 2011, 07:55:19 »
BV2 isn't perfect, but its still the best system I've ever seen for BT games.

Sure it has areas that don't work well (FSM, C3, Heat, To-Hit Mods), but I'd like to think those can be fixed for "BV3.0" instead of just scrapping the system.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #54 on: 23 November 2011, 08:51:23 »
I was honestly perfectly happy with BV1 and BV2. They did exactly what I needed, which was to give me a rough baseline to balance with(in addition to situational effects and my own judgment, of course), so that my group could quickly throw together forces that wouldn't grossly overpower each other. A lot better than our last method, which was to simply bring a company, any company. By those standards, a company of three foot infantry platoons was considered equal to twelve Thunder Hawks. Needless to say, I'm hoping that ________ does exactly the same thing as BV, only being simpler to calculate. Things like terrain and player skill are outside the points system, and it's up to players to use their own judgment to adjust their games to account for that.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #55 on: 23 November 2011, 11:32:22 »
Needless to say, I'm hoping that ________ does exactly the same thing as BV, only being simpler to calculate. Things like terrain and player skill are outside the points system, and it's up to players to use their own judgment to adjust their games to account for that.

It sounds like that's what Herb wants as well. It sounded to me like it wasn't a question of accuracy, but more of precision. BV2 is just tricky to pull off without errors in the calculations.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #56 on: 23 November 2011, 12:16:41 »
Hello,

Roughly correct. At present, I would consider it better to approximate balance "close enough", rather than try and claim a precise balance down to the decimal point. People would only "game" any system we create anyway, and I figure--much as we did with the RPG--that we should stop writing rules designed to thwart the munchkins and rules lawyers and work more toward keeping things fun.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #57 on: 23 November 2011, 12:32:49 »
Actually: they are supposed to make the game even. The problem is: If I were to Mirror Match one of my newer players,
chances are that, unless I deliberately made mistakes, I would win. For it to be a fair fight, I would have to take a
different 'mech..say, I have a player running an Atlas, I would have to, to be fair, run a Vindicator just so he would
have a chance...note: that is a Vindicator with the same skill level as his Atlas, likely on an open map.

That's why I brought up handicapping. If you're so much better than another player that you routinely beat them in a notionally balanced setup and find that not enough of a challenge to be satisfying, try it with an appropriately weaker force -- ideally, a good rating system would help you get a rough idea just how much weaker to serve as a starting point, too.

If you really wanted a system that took player skill out of the equation as well, though, I'd have a simple solution to offer: Put away your dice, maps, and miniatures and simply flip a coin to decide who wins. There, that should do it. :)

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #58 on: 23 November 2011, 12:37:58 »
Herb, you think exactly like I do on this subject. This is both reassuring and terrifying.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #59 on: 23 November 2011, 14:26:12 »
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #60 on: 23 November 2011, 14:48:24 »
Roughly correct. At present, I would consider it better to approximate balance "close enough", rather than try and claim a precise balance down to the decimal point. People would only "game" any system we create anyway, and I figure--much as we did with the RPG--that we should stop writing rules designed to thwart the munchkins and rules lawyers and work more toward keeping things fun.

Well said, Herb. I would suggest that a separate document be worked up for the Demo Team Agents to help them design balanced scenarios for actual tournaments, but for the rest of us, "close enough" is good enough.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #61 on: 23 November 2011, 15:41:12 »
Suddenly I think of the idea of using something similar to the planetary tech ratings.  A-F grades on firepower, armor, mobility, and special gear, maybe.  It's going to be relatively vague and not "my mech is 135.2 points more than yours" and would certainly count as "close enough" - maybe per weight.  Maybe make it purely on tonnage...

Weapons as a percentage of 'Mech weight: <10%=F, 10-20=D, 20-35=C, 35-50=B, 50%+=A
Armor as a percentage of max value: <50%=F, 50-60=D, 60-75=C, 75-90=B, 90%+=A
Speed as a percentage of the max MP for its weight and engine, +1 level for jump jets: <50%=F, 50-60=D, 60-75=C, 75-90=B, 90%+=A
Special is ECM, Probe, C3, Narc, TAG, and similar: no gear is F, one piece of equipment is D, 2 is C, 3 is B, 4+ is A

Soooo...to pick a random 'Mech, the OSP-26.  Weapons, not counting CASE or the jump jets, comes to exactly 50% by mass.  Armor, 176/185=95% or so.  Speed, 4/7=~.58, so D, though +1 for jump jets.  The Probe gives it one point in special.  That gives you a final rating for an A/A/C/D machine, a good line 'Mech with moderate mobility and a little bit of EW capability.  Now the above is fully off the top of my head, I just thought of it when I saw the comment of vague ratings and remembered the planetary codes - so why not something similar?  It's certainly a lot easier to calculate than trying to figure BV...

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #62 on: 23 November 2011, 16:02:32 »
Suddenly I think of the idea of using something similar to the planetary tech ratings.  A-F grades on firepower, armor, mobility, and special gear, maybe.  It's going to be relatively vague and not "my mech is 135.2 points more than yours" and would certainly count as "close enough" - maybe per weight.  Maybe make it purely on tonnage...

Weapons as a percentage of 'Mech weight: <10%=F, 10-20=D, 20-35=C, 35-50=B, 50%+=A
Armor as a percentage of max value: <50%=F, 50-60=D, 60-75=C, 75-90=B, 90%+=A
Speed as a percentage of the max MP for its weight and engine, +1 level for jump jets: <50%=F, 50-60=D, 60-75=C, 75-90=B, 90%+=A
Special is ECM, Probe, C3, Narc, TAG, and similar: no gear is F, one piece of equipment is D, 2 is C, 3 is B, 4+ is A

Soooo...to pick a random 'Mech, the OSP-26.  Weapons, not counting CASE or the jump jets, comes to exactly 50% by mass.  Armor, 176/185=95% or so.  Speed, 4/7=~.58, so D, though +1 for jump jets.  The Probe gives it one point in special.  That gives you a final rating for an A/A/C/D machine, a good line 'Mech with moderate mobility and a little bit of EW capability.  Now the above is fully off the top of my head, I just thought of it when I saw the comment of vague ratings and remembered the planetary codes - so why not something similar?  It's certainly a lot easier to calculate than trying to figure BV...

I was thinking something similar.  the rankings could occupy various percentages.  The actual calculations for the values could be simple as above or complex like BV2, but then the final numbers are abstracted to something comparable, but not trying to pretend to be exact.  Plus, this allows for some designer fudging.  If a mech is a pelse TC beast, the devs can up the value of it beyond the raw numbers.

Unit's like the Wraith become very powerful in this example: MED IS B/A/A/F or so forth, and it clearly shows the basic strengths and weaknesses.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #63 on: 23 November 2011, 16:14:01 »
I just want whatever comes to be simple to calculate; I WANT RECORD SHEETS!

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #64 on: 23 November 2011, 16:34:55 »
I just want whatever comes to be simple to calculate; I WANT RECORD SHEETS!

Four letter ratings for one numerical value doesn't seem to lean too much on the simple side. I'd certainly hoping that replacing BV would result in a system with a similar single numerical value.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #65 on: 23 November 2011, 16:41:32 »
Four letter ratings for one numerical value doesn't seem to lean too much on the simple side. I'd certainly hoping that replacing BV would result in a system with a similar single numerical value.
Compare my calculation for figuring out BV, by hand.  MP/max MP, +1 if it has JJs.  Armor/max armor value.  Weapons tonnage/total tonnage.  Does it have special gear.  Versus cube roots and whatnot...yeah I'd say mine's simpler.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #66 on: 23 November 2011, 16:54:44 »
How would you add up units of a force? Say I build a force for a game, and don't care at all what my opponent brings as long as the fight isn't guaranteed to be a one-sided slaughter for either side. Without giving him any clues as to what i'm bringing or how many, what do I tell him? In BV-style systems I can give him a single number for him to build towards, and we know the fight should be interesting and vaguely balanced.
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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #67 on: 23 November 2011, 17:14:56 »
Suddenly I think of the idea of using something similar to the planetary tech ratings.  A-F grades on firepower, armor, mobility, and special gear, maybe.  It's going to be relatively vague and not "my mech is 135.2 points more than yours" and would certainly count as "close enough" - maybe per weight.  Maybe make it purely on tonnage...

Weapons as a percentage of 'Mech weight: <10%=F, 10-20=D, 20-35=C, 35-50=B, 50%+=A
Armor as a percentage of max value: <50%=F, 50-60=D, 60-75=C, 75-90=B, 90%+=A
Speed as a percentage of the max MP for its weight and engine, +1 level for jump jets: <50%=F, 50-60=D, 60-75=C, 75-90=B, 90%+=A
Special is ECM, Probe, C3, Narc, TAG, and similar: no gear is F, one piece of equipment is D, 2 is C, 3 is B, 4+ is A

Soooo...to pick a random 'Mech, the OSP-26.  Weapons, not counting CASE or the jump jets, comes to exactly 50% by mass.  Armor, 176/185=95% or so.  Speed, 4/7=~.58, so D, though +1 for jump jets.  The Probe gives it one point in special.  That gives you a final rating for an A/A/C/D machine, a good line 'Mech with moderate mobility and a little bit of EW capability.  Now the above is fully off the top of my head, I just thought of it when I saw the comment of vague ratings and remembered the planetary codes - so why not something similar?  It's certainly a lot easier to calculate than trying to figure BV...

Interesting system, do you mind if I implement it in my mech evaluation program?

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #68 on: 23 November 2011, 17:15:50 »
Compare my calculation for figuring out BV, by hand.  MP/max MP, +1 if it has JJs.  Armor/max armor value.  Weapons tonnage/total tonnage.  Does it have special gear.  Versus cube roots and whatnot...yeah I'd say mine's simpler.

Figuring out the system? Agreed. Using it? I'm not so sure. Once you have to start averaging those letters together somehow to get a force rating, or have a long list of letter ratings (one for each unit)...it leads to much more complexity than a single group value.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #69 on: 23 November 2011, 19:21:12 »
Fair enough points.  Like I said, it was off the cuff as a random idea more than anything else.  Though now I get the mental image of "you can have this many As, this many Bs," and so on making force generation really weird.

Guess as a simple comparison system it works, but not so much as force generation.

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Re: BattleChat transcript 20 November 2011
« Reply #70 on: 23 November 2011, 20:25:21 »
I know BV2 isn't perfect, but this is going major migraine. 

Alot of official canon scenarios use BV in some form.  Jihad Hot Spots is where BV1 measured units translated into BV2 by what..Jihad Secrets or JHS:3076?  There whole section where there no bv (aka TRO:3050U) at some point until was fixed later.

I hope this abstract system they're going work on will cover all the units we have in good enough way to make sense for someone using older scenarios and informal games.  Its easy enough put together a pickup game, but scenarios are tougher animal specially when each side maybe company size (or bigger if your ambitious.)  I'm sort of tired of having his train wreck of units with differient unit bvs from completely differient systems.  I hope this new fix works out...

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