Rate the Mech: Centurion

[blackjack]

In 3025 tech the AL it is one of my favorites. Overall they are effective mechs. I have always like the look. I havent had much luck with the 3050 era designs. Just got the Rotary mini, so I plan on playing it out some.

[willydstyle]

In 3025 tech the AL it is one of my favorites. Overall they are effective mechs. I have always like the look. I havent had much luck with the 3050 era designs. Just got the Rotary mini, so I plan on playing it out some.

I don't like the Centurion, because it's a slow medium, and they just offend my sense of engineering efficiency.  However, the RAC Centurion is an attractive enough mini that I'm tempted to pick it up :D

[JPArbiter]

Anyone used the HPPC variant we put in the ONN Record Sheets? Curious on opinions of that one.

used it to eviscerate a ryoken that got a little to ambitious with its Ultra 20.  scored a armor breach and Critted ammo in the first round of fire.

[Guitardian]

I think they look cool I guess. Never liked LRM/10s though, and as already pointed out, the PPC and some sinks could replace the AC/10 without really blinking. Its designed for slow plodding advances (so we are told) but it doesn't have the armor to deal with the outcome of such a tactic, just a big gun to hopefully scare people away as it plods up to them, but it would get chewed up by any kind of long range skirmish mech slowly and painfully inevitable like being pecked to death by ducks as it attempts to close to a decent range for that cannon.

 I could see it as a serious "line" mech (which implies other mechs on the 'line') but its just too ploddy compared to its competitors like the Treb, Vindi, Enforcer. It isn't quite as much of a fire magnet as a hunchback, and on its plus side, I like the rear firing laser when I have been stuck with one. That era, you are likely to have some gnat like a wasp or something hounding you from behind after the battle progresses, and just a single laser can discourage that (I like them in the Dragon and Zeus stock 3025s too for the same reason, even if the rest of it is kinda "meh") Seems to be a trend in TR3025. Otherwise mediocre-at-best mech designs at least get a rear-firing laser to avoid being annoyed by gnats.

[House Davie Merc]

Sorry for beign a littel of topic ,but :

In and out large laser love taps are what the Phoenix Hawk is about.  Leap in large laser to the back, leap out behind cover, cool, repeat.  Few units in 3025 can really take repeated large lasers to the rear, and if you're hittable at any other point, you're doing it wrong.  Still, unless we're discussing the PXH-1K Phoenix Hawk, we're talking about a unit which is apples and oranges to the Centurion.

Then after a few Large Laser Taps open up the rear torsos it's time to try to score some crits with those
MGs that everyone seems to ask why it even carries.
I like to set someone up for a round where if I win initiative at least one of several targets should be at a range
that I can run 7 hexes or more and get right behind them for the close in weapons or at
4 to 5 hexes for the large laser .
The longer I play this game the more I like the original Phoenix Hawk and seem to compare
every other medium to it .
I'll never get why so many hate the design .       

[willydstyle]

I prefer the -1D just because it can fire all it's weapons at a run without gaining any heat penalties, and given the 6/9/6 movement profile, the jump jets are actually more for taking advantage of terrain than for building up movement mods.  I think one of the reasons why people don't like the design is because all the intro-tech PHX variants are vulnerable to PPC headshot deaths, and even though those don't happen *all the time*, they happen often enough that a person gains a dislike for the design, despite that not being that big of a flaw.

[Martius]

Anyone used the HPPC variant we put in the ONN Record Sheets? Curious on opinions of that one.

Yes, used it a few times already. Good medium trooper but rarely survives the attention it gets for long. The headcapper makes people somewhat skittish and some devote a lot of firepower to get rid of this one. Well, I would do the same as the armor is thin and 4/6 means its easy to hit.

The -9Da is different. It lacks firepower but the combination of TC and precision ammo for its light AC makes it quite good at hunting down bold hovertanks or VTOLs.

The -9H is a cheap way to get an LB-10X onto the battlefield but I saw it die to nothing more than a stern glance.

The classic -9A was a solid trooper at its time and the deep ammo bins make it useful even in modern times. An AC 10 with precision ammo is dangerous and I enjoy a mix of standard and mine clearing ammo for the LRMs.

The -9D turns the avarage trooper into an avarage medium cavalry Mech. Not bad, not outstanding just avarage.

The -9AH is a good bodyguard for LRM boats as it can add its own LRMs to the barrage and at the same time keep backstabbers and flankers away. I want some for the legions to be used as the 5th Mech in a fire support century. Too bad we dopn't have it on the list anymore.

The -10B is an overweigt -9A with heavier armor and modern weapons. Not bad, not outstanding, just avarage- so a typical Centurion.

[ScrewySqrl]

The Centurion is probably the most "Average" Mech in 3025.

That said, its two min 3025 variants are extremely effective.

While the CN9-A is the primary version, and the basis for almost every update later, there were two other variants the -AL and -AH that performed far better.

the CN9-AL goes a long way to fixing the firepower and armor issues.  Armed with and LRM-10, Large Laser, 2 forward medium lasers, the rear medium laser, and a small laser, and 14 heat sinks,  and a huge increase in armor, it now can truly play the role of 'medium-weight heavy' -- Its less ammo dependent, higher overall damage, better armored, and can handle its heat curve better.

The other model, the -AH, is completely ammo dependent, with an AC/20 and LRM-10.  it still has the relatively thin armor of the original model, so needs to be paired with something that looks like a greater threat Like a Victor, Hunchback, or atlas.  The LRM-10 is now mostly for keeping opponents honest at range while it closes to fire the AC/20.

[Drasius]

Never has a single Centurion of mine survived a match. Not. Once. Ammo gets tagged every single time. Without fail. The guy who nails the Kommandants daughter? Yeah, forget the Uziel, he gets the Centurion.

Such a shame too, since I really like it. This thread has given me ideas about a nice custom with the LRM's switched out for some SRM's and some armour and popping the ML's onto the left arm though. I reckon that would combo with an Enforcer much better, as well as get rid of the skitso ranges.

[Orin J.]

the Centurion is a solid hole-filler in my books. i wouldn't pick it for any specific task, but it'll do in a pinch to fill a hole in my forces just fine.

it's not a showstopper, but wars are fought by the poor sloggers, and won by the heros.

[Kobold]

I am not particularly fond of the CN9-A.  Like everyone else has said, it is ok, but not great.

However, I LOVE the AL.  LOVE LOVE LOVE.  Good firepower, good heat sinks, and excellent armor for a mech its size/bv cost.  Many similar BV and similar firepower mechs have only 120 or so armor.  The AL makes an excellent cheap escort for other slow units.  It is often underestimated when it is paired with something like an HBK.  By the time the enemies turn their attention to it after killing their primary target, they discover they have to burn through piles of armor.

The AH is good but not great.  It is a great surprise mech if your opponent isn't paying close attention to what variants you're using.

[Neufeld]

The problem with the CN9-A, is that while it might be a reasonable mech, about every TRO3039 main model medium in the 45-55 ton range is better. (The only medium over 40 ton that I would say is worse is the Hatchetman.)

[Charlie Tango]

Definitely the "C student" of 'Mechs.   Trooper, soldier, average,  jack of all trades... that's the Centurion.

I like the -9A in the Succession Wars timeframe when operating as part of a unit with similar speeds and a long-range profile (such as Archers, Whitworths, Crusaders, etc)  It can contribute throw weight down range with the LRM while using the AC/10 as a deterrent for flankers and backstabbers.

I really like the -9AL as a 'Mech in a campaign.  Heavy armor, good firepower, carries extra LRM ammo to share with other 'Mechs in the unit if needed.

The AC/20 variants are nice as surprises but not much otherwise.

The -9D is a poor upgrade.  The increase in speed doesn't offset the increased fragility sufficiently.

I haven't played much with the other versions other than the fun RAC version, which is OK.

[ShadowRaven]

Never has a single Centurion of mine survived a match. Not. Once. Ammo gets tagged every single time. Without fail. The guy who nails the Kommandants daughter? Yeah, forget the Uziel, he gets the Centurion.

of course he does. Anyone who is willing to give the guy they want to die an Uziel is nuts. Jumping pocket Warhammer FTW

[Lafeel]

Always felt it to be a bit of a meh design myself.

Might just test it out a few times to see if I can change my own mind on the subject.

[Fear Factory]

CN9-A is the medium generalist.  It's average...  but that's not a bad thing.  It's lethal enough, but not too lethal where it would constantly draw fire.

The ONLY thing I wish it did was jump.  Not that it's really required but I prefer to have jump jets on most of my designs because they're useful in bad situations.  I never expect mine to last too long so I usually rip out 1 ton of LRM and AC ammo for jump jets.  By the time the LB-X comes into the picture I simply replace the original Autocannon with that plus an extra ton of ammo.  Inspired by the BattleTech cartoon and it makes it a little more flexible.

I feel cheap using the Large Laser variant because it's an obvious replacement to the AC but the AC20 variant is great.  If I'm not using the CN9-A I'm using that.

[Diamondshark]

If you were to take the CN9-AH and swap one LRM bin with a ML, that would make it seriously scary.

[Fear Factory]

If you were to take the CN9-AH and swap one LRM bin with a ML, that would make it seriously scary.

Why does it need a medium laser?

[Hellraiser]

Its a great team player but lack luster as a duelist.

My biggest issue is it fails in my 1 Mech Weaponry Rule, which is "Energy Weapons should be Primary or Secondary Armament, but never be Tertiary Armament" 

I know, its an odd rule, but I don't like AC+Missile Mechs,  unless its a Stealth Armoed design.

[Diamondshark]

Why does it need a medium laser?

Because you then have some kind of close-ranged defense if someone rushes you as you use up your insane number of LRMs after you use up all your AC/20 ammo.

[Guitardian]

Unless its an LRM15/20 or an AC10/20 I see no need for any 3025 mech to carry extra ammo. Especially with thin armor and a heavy enough structure that internal hits will keep happening before its actually blown out. I bet every CN-9 blows up to ammo before it gets shot through to the center.

I will correct that, it does make perfect sense on the Dragon, as it has the armor to actually possibly go through all that ammo, and it really really needs it as neither of its main weapons are really that great, but continually firing them makes them nice. I believe it would have made sense for the AC/5 on a Shadowhawk also (instead of... oh I dunno the SRM2s?) for the same reason, or the Rifleman (but wait it's already pretty underarmored as it is, what else to remove?) or on the Valkyrie who's main weapon only gets 12 shots, before it becomes slightly less useful than a Stinger. But in general, for 3025 mechs where it isn't the primary weapon, or who have 2 or more of the weapon, just seems like a dangerous waste of space to have more than 1 ton of ammo for anything except the really big guns/launchers.

[Fear Factory]

Because you then have some kind of close-ranged defense if someone rushes you as you use up your insane number of LRMs after you use up all your AC/20 ammo.

You would hang out at range for 24 turns?

[Diamondshark]

Well, if the battle is still going on, and I don't have an option to re-load and am not damaged enough to need to retreat, I don't see why not. I would just fall back from my combat lance and join my fire support lance.

[Patrick Dupree]

One thing you have to remember with a Centurion CN9-A is:
If you can hit it shoot at it. You have enough ammo, so take all shot you can even for to-hits like 12.

[DireBunny]

Possibly repeating some of the points made above...

Frankly, I've never thought of the Centurion as of "the benchmark medium mech". They are quite specialized. For a small-scale combat I would prefer other mechs, but they do have some advantages. And I also like using those mechs as "bad guy's troopers" =).

CN9-A is good at accompanying non-jumping close combat mechs - like Hunchback, Thunderbolt, Orion, Flashman and the the similar ones. Compensate the lack of heavy armor and presence of the explosive ammo with range and friendly mechs serving as damage sinks. Provide fire support and initiative sinks for your main attack force. Avoid getting into the killing range until enemy is weakened, then join others, but still preferably keep at some range. Those AC/10 + LRM-10 can be quite handy. It's not quite good in the defense, unless you can avoid taking serious damage until the AC/10 can come into play.
CN9-AL has a bit more combat endurance, but it's still a medium mech, so it's role is generally the same. If all you have in this particular combat are mediums and lights, then CN9-AL is very good due to the ranged firepower and endurance. In a combat with the heavier mechs it still has to pull off somewhat to avoid taking too much damage.
CN9-AH is a jumping platform for the AC/20.

CN9-D is one of the best vehicle killers (mobile LB-10X). Good enough fire support mech. Avoid getting hurt until enemies are worn off, then crit them with LBX. Several other newer Centurions actually follow similar pattern, although I sill like the crit-seeking capabilities of the LBX.
CN-10B, despite it's standard engine and good armor, is still extremely vulnerable to the critical hits. I would prefer CN-9D. It's better to use the speed to avoid the incoming fire then staying there and getting killed.

Yen-Lo-Wang, RAC-turion are the like are skirmishers, sub-optimial, but good enough if used in the right moment.

Overall rate - 4 out of 5, good when used right, bad when the enemy doesn't present you such opportunity.

[bakija]

Overall rate - 4 out of 5, good when used right, bad when the enemy doesn't present you such opportunity.

Yeah, now that I was looking at the Centurion in the context of all the other 3025/3039 mechs over in that other thread, in context, I'm beginning to feel a lot better about it. It being just a 4/6 instead of a 4/6/4 is problematic (4/6 is generally too slow for a mid sized guy if it can't jump for the bonus defense and dealing with terrain). And it does have slightly lighter armor than it should. But the AC10 has plenty of ammo (which is good; 10 ammo is not enough ammo), the LRM10 kind of blows but works with the AC10 just fine (fight at R10 if you can). In close, the ML is never going to hurt. It isn't all that bad. I mean, relative to the Vindicator, it is similar enough yet kind of loses out in every comparison, but still, it is similar enough, and the Vindicator is the best mech in that class. I suppose if the LRM10 became an LRM5 with 1 ton of ammo and those 4 tons became jump jets and more armor (either 2 tons more, or 1 ton more and a heat sink if the chassis can't carry 2 more tons of armor), it'd be totally solid. And virtually the Vindicator, trading the bonus of no minimum range for the ability to run out of ammo.

[willydstyle]

On a 4/6/4 mech, jumping doesn't give you any better TMM than running does, but screws up your hit numbers more.  It's really only useful in broken terrain.

[LordChaos]

Frankly, I've never thought of the Centurion as of "the benchmark medium mech".

I think that right there is what people are getting hung up on (not to call you out, but your post was easy to quote).

The Centurion isn't a benchmark of a medium mech.  It's a benchmark of a medium trooper mech.  The medium mech range includes scouts (Cicadia, Assassin, Phoenix Hawk), fire support (whitworth, dervish, trebuchet), troopers (or generalist) (Centurion, Vindicator, etc).

As a generic medium, of course it is let down.  It can't scout, it's poor fire support, etc.  But the scouts are poor troopers, the fire supports are poor scouts, etc. 

It's wen veiwed as it's roll, the generic trooper, it finds it's roll.  It's still not a superstar, but it is a solid performer.  (though I really wish it had another ton of armor).

[Neufeld]

On a 4/6/4 mech, jumping doesn't give you any better TMM than running does, but screws up your hit numbers more.  It's really only useful in broken terrain.

Or turning around quickly if you got enemies in your rear.

[Guitardian]

I think that right there is what people are getting hung up on (not to call you out, but your post was easy to quote).

The Centurion isn't a benchmark of a medium mech.  It's a benchmark of a medium trooper mech.  The medium mech range includes scouts (Cicadia, Assassin, Phoenix Hawk), fire support (whitworth, dervish, trebuchet), troopers (or generalist) (Centurion, Vindicator, etc).

As a generic medium, of course it is let down.  It can't scout, it's poor fire support, etc.  But the scouts are poor troopers, the fire supports are poor scouts, etc. 

It's wen veiwed as it's roll, the generic trooper, it finds it's roll.  It's still not a superstar, but it is a solid performer.  (though I really wish it had another ton of armor).

this. Well said.

I don't mind a Centurion 3025 stock either, it isn't horrible, it is just outshined by others like the Vindi or Enforcer. It isn't one of the "oh please don't let me draw that mech for this game" kinda things like a Vulcan or Jagermech in mech-on-mech game, or a Hermes II without any woods to light up, or a etc., just not the ideal. But hey in level 1 tech with the 3025 readout I can count on one hand the mechs I really respect and wouldn't want some sort of variant or custom mod to. It is what it is, and does a fairly okay job at it. Just not the best of its class, it still works. Not too shabby for the shabby spirit of 3025 "deal-with-it" kind of play.