Behemoth - Jihad

[Sabelkatten]

Well, I figure a single RAC/20 could work on a King Crab-like urban assault unit and, of course, on an ASF. But in general I agree, it's more of cool piece of fluff than a practical weapon. A RAC/10 is much more practical.

A LAC/20 is rather iffy due to the range issue I talked about. Once you get below 10 hexes of range the fairly linear correlation between range and general efficiency doesn't hold any longer, 2/4/6 range isn't 2/3rds as effective as 3/6/9. To be balanced for specialized units the LAC/20 would have to be almost as heavy as the standard AC/20. At a quick guess I'd say something like 12 tons, 5 heat.

[Hellraiser]

A LAC/20 is rather iffy due to the range issue I talked about. Once you get below 10 hexes of range the fairly linear correlation between range and general efficiency doesn't hold any longer, 2/4/6 range isn't 2/3rds as effective as 3/6/9. To be balanced for specialized units the LAC/20 would have to be almost as heavy as the standard AC/20. At a quick guess I'd say something like 12 tons, 5 heat.

I believe following the LAC-2/5 patterns you get a 9-10 ton weapon at 2-4-6 range, 7 heat, & 6-8 crits.

Where it shines is on things like the Hunchback or Blitzkrieg that used AC20's of various types but could barely fit them in there.  It screams for use w/ Precision Ammo to create a Pulse-20 to kill light mechs and not much else.

[Jim1701]

A very nice design.  I love this big monster too!  One small nitpick though, this is a Class D refit rather than a C.  The original Behemoth has 16 weapon systems and yours has 18.  Adding new weapons bumps it up a level.   :'(

Now if you go with MML 5's....  O0

Or you could just drop the front mounted LMG's and add yet another ton of armor to that monster.  That would be scary too. [AAAH]

Code: [Select]

Behemoth Heavy Tank (MML 5)

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 0
Cost: 5,014,917 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,267

Power Plant:  200 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 21.6 km/h
Flanking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  LB 10-X ACs
    6  MML-5s
    6  Light Machine Guns
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      50 points               10.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                200                      17.00
    Cruise MP:  2
    Flank MP:   3
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         5.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    3.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 248                 12.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     64       
                                          Left/Right   50/50       
                                              Turret     50       
                                                Rear     34       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Light Machine Guns                         FR        0         2         1.00
4 MML-5s                                     FR        12        4        12.00
2 Light Machine Guns                         LS        0         2         1.00
2 Light Machine Guns                         RS        0         2         1.00
2 LB 10-X ACs                                T         4         2        22.00
2 MML-5s                                     T         6         2         6.00
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (20)                      BD        -         0         2.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (20)                         BD        -         0         2.00
@MML-5 (LRM) (72)                            BD        -         0         3.00
@MML-5 (SRM) (40)                            BD        -         0         2.00
@LMG (1/2) (100)                             BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      8    Points: 13
2          0       0       0       0      4     4   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: EE, FLK 0/0/0



[Hellraiser]

A very nice design.  I love this big monster too!  One small nitpick though, this is a Class D refit rather than a C.  The original Behemoth has 16 weapon systems and yours has 18.  Adding new weapons bumps it up a level.   :'( 

Hmm.

I don't think so, the area where they were added was to put 2 weapons of the same type into the space of 1 weapon.   (This would be covered under Class-B)

Meanwhile Class C is installing larger weapons into Smaller Space.  (LAC5 into AC2 slot for example)

To be Class D I think I would have had to stick 2 weapons of different types into the space of one weapon.   (LRM5 + SRM2 into SRM6 slot)

In this case, I stuck 2x MML3 into 1x SRM6.

Either way I suppose it doesn't matter since both of them need a full Repair Bay to do it so its not changing the resources needed any.

[Jim1701]

Only if the new weapons are smaller than the one it is replacing.  You can replace a gauss rifle with 2 large lasers but you can't replace a large laser with 2 gauss rifles.  If the new weapon is bigger than the old weapon then you can swap one for one as a class C.  Like I said you can just drop the front mounted LMG's and use the weight elsewhere and you are good to go. 

[Sabelkatten]

I believe following the LAC-2/5 patterns you get a 9-10 ton weapon at 2-4-6 range, 7 heat, & 6-8 crits.

Where it shines is on things like the Hunchback or Blitzkrieg that used AC20's of various types but could barely fit them in there.  It screams for use w/ Precision Ammo to create a Pulse-20 to kill light mechs and not much else.

The Blitzkrieg is a perfact example of why reducing range isn't a good balancing action when the range is already short. How much would the Blitz lose if it's AC dropped 33% in range, given that it pretty much has to win init to get into range anyway, and it's fast enough to almost always do so?

[Hellraiser]

The Blitzkrieg is a perfact example of why reducing range isn't a good balancing action when the range is already short. How much would the Blitz lose if it's AC dropped 33% in range, given that it pretty much has to win init to get into range anyway, and it's fast enough to almost always do so?

You need to win initiative to get into range using a 7/11 mech ?

As to the Blitz,  I think a LAC20 v/s UAC20 is pretty solid change.
The tonnage lets you mount Jumpjets & more armor while using special ammo,  all around not a bad trade off for a 2nd shot & 4 hexes of range IMHO.

[Sabelkatten]

You need to win initiative to get into range using a 7/11 mech ?

Because if the enemy moves after you he's got to move 3 hexes to (likely) push your TN to 9 (G4 + Medium rng 2 + AMM2 + TMM1), i.e. a pretty ineffective shot. And let's not talk about an enemy with decent jump capability...

As to the Blitz,  I think a LAC20 v/s UAC20 is pretty solid change.
The tonnage lets you mount Jumpjets & more armor while using special ammo,  all around not a bad trade off for a 2nd shot & 4 hexes of range IMHO.

Of course it's a good trade, that's my point! And if the LAC/20 weights 9 tons it's (probably) too good!

To avoid superfast AC/20s of DOOM^tm a LAC/20 can't be much lighter than the standard AC/20, even thought that makes it rather useless on slow designs.

[Hellraiser]

Of course it's a good trade, that's my point!

I hear you now, I misread what you said about 33% range, I thought you were saying it was a big loss.

[Sabelkatten]

I hear you now, I misread what you said about 33% range, I thought you were saying it was a big loss.

Ah, OK. :)

[Hellraiser]

To avoid superfast AC/20s of DOOM^tm a LAC/20 can't be much lighter than the standard AC/20, even thought that makes it rather useless on slow designs.

I'd like to see it myself.
The LAC5 has made the AC5 into a good thing, I'd like to see the AC20 get that treatment.
A Saladin with Armor !   (Say goodbye to your rear armor)

[truetanker]

I personally rip out my 20's on my Sals for 10's and add 3 more tons of armor and get 5 extra  rounds for free. Longer range and I tend to spin around while cruising to get away after that last shot, flanking only when I need to dash to cover or get out of range ASAP. Same tactics with my Bandits and any 9/14+ hovers I have.

Anyone else use such ideals?

TT