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Author Topic: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator  (Read 9871 times)

Iron Mongoose

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #60 on: 19 July 2017, 15:52:34 »
Given the background (quickly repaired on Huntress and then kept first in a planetary militia and then a guerilla fighter on the run) it's not unreasonable to imagine that the mech was just under weight, and he didn't fill the two tons simply because there may not have been the materials or the opportunity to fill them with anything.  Perhaps once he's running around as a freedom fighter General with a brigade of his own, he might use communications equipment, though he had someone for that already so that may not be likely. 
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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #61 on: 19 July 2017, 19:18:16 »
The novels often depict mechs as "riding the heat curve" regardless of how heat-efficient the mech is on the tabletop.  The Caesar, for example, is an over-sinked design on the tabletop but in Double Blind, Marcus has to ride the heat curve in Archangel despite it having even more heatsinks than a normal Caesar.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #62 on: 19 July 2017, 20:41:46 »
Well, its also given heat from the environment so not sure that is the best comparison.

IM, the Archer's Penetrator was not quickly repaired on Huntress.  The whole mech was rebuilt from the scraps they salvaged.  It was done at Vic's orders, and the tons of Jaguar salvage sitting around should have made it easy . . . to be honest, no reason it should not have had Clan MPLs and DHS since it was a rebuild.  His time in the Thorin militia was relatively short and the mech undamaged until he turned.  I do not recall exactly how the fight against Blucher went in the end, how much damage he had, but I think the worst damage he took was on Odessa.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #63 on: 19 July 2017, 21:10:42 »
only the ERLL's ever get mentioned though, even when people specifically talk about how the refit made the design more lethal, it is always attributed ot the ERLL's. so i can buy them leaving the MPL's alone. we don't know at what point they got the order to do the refit at, it is possible they'd already rebuilt most of the torso but hadn't touched the arms yet.
and it is possible that they didn't actually salvage all that many clan weapons at huntress (most of the stuff Serpent grabbed got used to keep serpent functioning till bulldog arrived) and it was easier to free up a pair of ERLL's than it was to grab a full weapons suite. (especially when you consider how many units had full clan mechs after, and would be putting in requests for spares)

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #64 on: 19 July 2017, 21:22:03 »
He made a point of spreading the loot across the Regt. All the way to the final book references to "Clan lasers" on his Mech is always to the ER Larges.

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #65 on: 19 July 2017, 23:22:07 »
Its always in reference to surprising people with their range and hitting power- 180m more range and more damage.  Not saying they are not IS MPL, I would agree with that . . . but its a bit silly when its being rebuilt out of Jag salvage.  IIRC, Vic also tells him that when he is visiting him in the hospital.  Sort of like IMO McKarthy's Devastator he takes back to Kathil after the 1st Uhlans is disbanded should have had Clan Gauss Rifles.

Kid, he was not in charge of a regiment when it happened, just a Major (or whatever AFFS name they used) dropping on Huntress.
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Kidd

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #66 on: 19 July 2017, 23:57:20 »
...what? Are we talking about Archer Christifori, boss of the Thorin Freedom Theater Militia ("Archer's Avengers"), who fought Katrina loyalists, Jade Falcons, and Snord's Irregulars....?

glitterboy2098

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #67 on: 20 July 2017, 01:55:49 »
that was all after huntress. he got the rebuilt mech and a promotion alongside a star league medal of honor for actions on huntress.

Iron Mongoose

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #68 on: 20 July 2017, 02:04:44 »
We are, but as Colt remind us, he only became a General later on.  At the time, he was a Major of the AFFC/SLDF and a recipient of some prestigious Star League award.

Which poses a problem that we can't really reconcile.  On the one hand, his award and some of what Victor says to him (I don't remember it clearly myself) hints that his mech was rebuilt for him as a reward and an honor.  This largely makes sense, especially in the traditional neo-feudal atmosphere of BattleTech (that may or may not have largely evaporated since the 4th Succession War) in that it's ultimately Archer's mech (why he's able to take a better than top of the line machine with him into retirement).  But, if it is a reward and an honor, as has been pointed out, why not refit the MPLs too?  After all, while Clan ER LLs are better than IS ones, Clan LPLs are dramatically better than IS MPLs, and that refit would have made his Penetrator insanely dangerous.  Or why not upgrade it in some other interesting way?

My theory is that, sure, it was an honor to even have a mech at all, but they were still on Huntress, hundreds of light years from home and in the midst of a pile of angry Clanners who could have easily fallen on them and wiped them out of existence given the political will.  More over, while Archer fought well and bravely and for a noble cause, he did so for about five minutes.  Would it have been right to upgrade his mech at the expense of those who fought nobly and bravely for weeks and months? 

A quick look at FM:U hints that Huntress yielded up regiments of Clan tech.  The ELH are still about 50% Clan even after five years and a combat deployment to St Ives, the 1st Royal is famously 100%, and even the surviving battalion of Kingston's is still about 33% Clan even after a stint in the Periphery and some (presumptive) poaching by other CCAF commands (there are a lot of assumptions in that one, but I'll stand by them in an appropriate thread if called upon).  There's no reason to believe that there weren't enough Clan weapons to refit Archer's mech (or just replace it, as Paul Masters did and doubtless scores of others less famous).  So why not?

Honestly, I'd guess that it wasn't as high a priority as Victor may have made it out to be, at least not for the quartermasters who actually had charge of the operation.  A single warrior who's not even combat ready and going to muster out soon anyway (I don't know if that was known, but if it were it would be something I'd think about if I were a quartermaster)?  Sure, I'll throw you a bone, but someone in universe has to be aware that the Clan MPL is a strong contender for the single very best weapon a mech can mount (behind perhaps it's big brother), and if they wanted to allocate them to combat ready warriors, or ones who'd fought and bled through months of Hell and were hot to stick it to the Jags and their ilk, who could blame them?

I don't think the solution is knowable (excepting perhaps a future publication, or one I'm not aware of, or I suppose an ask the authors).  For me, I'd probably just let the mech be under weight.  But, if my opponent wanted to add a sink or two, or more armor, or something else non-intrusive (AMS ammo? under the old rules reasonable, if not under the present rules) I don't think I'd make a fuss about it.
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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #69 on: 20 July 2017, 07:07:11 »
I always wondered what happened to Flashpoint's David McCarthy.  His fight on Kathil was pretty epic in it's own right.
Colt Ward is right, Major McCarthy surprisingly didn't get upgrade in his Devastator. Then again he didn't get award for bravely like Archer did.

In sense i kept thinking that McCarthy was early version of Archer, but he didn't have as much a compelling reason aside from saving his home world from the machinists of Victor's everlovable sister, Katherine Steiner-Davion.

Heck we get that Jumping Cestus from this book as well.

Anyways:  The original Penetrator, is bracket fire machine.  Frankly at a big disadvantage in long-range / intermediate combat ranges due to MPLs needing be mighty short range to swiss cheese someone.   I can't say i got to use the LRM version of the the Mech, frankly get's away from what it does.  Laser boating.  The 6S is a silly, dropping armor for ECM.  Drop the bloody AMS and then adjust with armor if need be for ECM.  It's XL Machine for bloody sakes!  #P

The 6T good, but its not as cool having those bonuses to hit with pulse lasers. I think a variant for this Mech should tried using X-Pulse Lasers instead see how well that would gone.  More range, some to-hit bonuses and your still able bounce around and have fair chance of hitting someone!  ^-^

 
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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #70 on: 20 July 2017, 10:55:15 »
Archer is also a valued major, soon to be general. If I had the choice as Commander in chief of augmenting what keeps him at range, or augmenting what encourages him to charge forward into high risks situations, the upgrade makes sense. In the same vein of keeping the VIP safe I would use the two tons for another ton of AMS (rules at the time) and armor. Now I would use it for a heat sink and armor.
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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #71 on: 20 July 2017, 10:59:13 »
 . . . no one knew he was going to be a general.  He was a major equivalent and retired to reserve duty shortly after Huntress- though IIRC that was not know either until he came back from Huntress.
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #72 on: 22 July 2017, 06:31:11 »
I was playing around with SSW and put together a version with (all IS tech) standard Medium Lasers and things and wonder if that would be a good "downgrade" of the -6T as it loses the heat problems and allows you to return to bracket firing (forever...)


Actually, as I think that Mod would be a near-perfect one, I can see why they haven't canonised anything like it
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Kidd

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #73 on: 22 July 2017, 06:56:01 »
I was playing around with SSW and put together a version with (all IS tech) standard Medium Lasers and things and wonder if that would be a good "downgrade" of the -6T as it loses the heat problems and allows you to return to bracket firing (forever...)


Actually, as I think that Mod would be a near-perfect one, I can see why they haven't canonised anything like it
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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #74 on: 22 July 2017, 07:03:42 »
You mean a BLR-2G Warlord? :D


apart from it being shoe-horned into the Assault bracket and (IIRC) lacking jump jets...
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smdvogrin

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #75 on: 22 July 2017, 18:30:31 »
Honestly, one of the neat things about the Penetrator is that you can convert it to introtech ridiculously easily.  2 standard LLs, 6 standard mediums, 18 single heat sinks takes up exactly the same tonnage as the ER LLs, MPLS, and DHS; and it gives you the same heat curve (a bit of extra sinking if you're firing the larges).  Leaves with a 1.5 tons left over, which is exactly enough to max the armor.

Now, the overlap in ranges between standard lasers means it's a bit less brackety, but really some designer should have come up with this 200 years earlier than they did. :)

Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #76 on: 22 July 2017, 18:36:53 »
Now, the overlap in ranges between standard lasers means it's a bit less brackety, but really some designer should have come up with this 200 years earlier than they did. :)
Davion variants of the Marauder and Warhammer kinda do this. Then there's the Grasshopper, and a Quickdraw variant. To be sure, none of these are exactly what you describe, but close.
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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #77 on: 22 July 2017, 19:00:48 »
Davion variants of the Marauder and Warhammer kinda do this. Then there's the Grasshopper, and a Quickdraw variant. To be sure, none of these are exactly what you describe, but close.

The Flashman comes pretty close to that.
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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #78 on: 22 July 2017, 19:14:31 »
The Flashman comes pretty close to that.
...And that. Somehow that 'Mech always flies under my radar, at least in any other context than the SLDF.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #79 on: 22 July 2017, 20:17:26 »
actually.. i could see the Penetrator being a case of "take the good parts of the Flashman, and give it to me on a chassis 15 tons lighter"

in some ways the Penetrator is a FLS-7K Flashman given the "foundtech weight loss" treatment.

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #80 on: 22 July 2017, 20:25:20 »
actually.. i could see the Penetrator being a case of "take the good parts of the Flashman, and give it to me on a chassis 15 tons lighter"

in some ways the Penetrator is a FLS-7K Flashman given the "foundtech weight loss" treatment.

Penetrator and Flashman are the same mass. :P
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Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #81 on: 22 July 2017, 20:30:23 »
The Penetrator jumps where the original Flashman ran fast. And the introtech Flashman does neither.
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Demon55

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #82 on: 23 July 2017, 01:46:14 »
I find it interesting that the factories for the Crab, Flashman, and Penetrator all get destroyed.  As the Crab and Flashman are incredibly durable and the lack of ammunition means they do not have to worry about internal ammunition explosions. 

I think I have only used the Penetrator a few times.  It seems to do okay, but I am not fond of the IS medium pulse laser's range brackets.

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #83 on: 23 July 2017, 02:22:12 »
The Flashman is a Defiance Industries mech, and that factory is very much not destroyed.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #84 on: 23 July 2017, 03:51:10 »
Leaves with a 1.5 tons left over, which is exactly enough to max the armor.
Or mount a machine gun with one ton of ammo that acts like a low-tech AMS!  ..Anti-Man System.

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #85 on: 23 July 2017, 08:41:20 »
I find it interesting that the factories for the Crab, Flashman, and Penetrator all get destroyed.  As the Crab and Flashman are incredibly durable and the lack of ammunition means they do not have to worry about internal ammunition explosions. 

Like the Penetrator, the Flashman has AMS.

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glitterboy2098

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #86 on: 23 July 2017, 12:48:47 »
Penetrator and Flashman are the same mass. :P

ugh, your right. that's what i get for posting on memory alone with no double checking.

still. the penetrator does have the feel of the FLS-7K Flashman given an advanced tech makeover.. just a different one than returning it to its SLDF roots.

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #87 on: 24 July 2017, 09:18:27 »
It is also possible that once Major Christifori was up and running around on Huntress he may have decided to subtly countermand the rebuilding of his mech, "No, Victor said to rebuild it, the clan larges are enough, those 6 clan MPLs?  Spread 'em out to the rest of the refits, that stealth could use 'em more."

As to 'improving' the original.  Endosteel gives you two more heat sinks and a ton and a half of armor, gets rid of movement heat.
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Demon55

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #88 on: 24 July 2017, 20:27:40 »
It is also possible that once Major Christifori was up and running around on Huntress he may have decided to subtly countermand the rebuilding of his mech, "No, Victor said to rebuild it, the clan larges are enough, those 6 clan MPLs?  Spread 'em out to the rest of the refits, that stealth could use 'em more."

As to 'improving' the original.  Endosteel gives you two more heat sinks and a ton and a half of armor, gets rid of movement heat.

I could see Christifori doing that.

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Re: Mech of the Week: PTR-* Penetrator
« Reply #89 on: Today at 00:32:19 »
I just noticed something. I was doing a custom -4F upgrade, and it is a fairly decent mech under the alpha strike rules

Somehow.

The thing is a wreck under total warfare, but I guess it found its niche.


« Last Edit: Today at 00:33:54 by Greatclub »

 

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