Smoke Jaguar Domain

[Wolf Lancer 4]

Its probably going to be one of those things that we never know about.  Just like Clan Wolf's saKhan.  All we learned about the saKhan from Operation Klondike was a name.  Sadly there is still so much we dont know that folks want to know but will never probably learn.

[joechummer]

Someone clear something up for me:  ER:3052 says Lincoln Osis was an Elemental, but I was reading in Invading Clans that he piloted a Summoner during Tukayyid.  Did I miss something?

[Jaim Magnus]

Where exactly does it say he piloted a Summoner?  Because that is CLEARLY in error.  Lincoln Osis is an elemental, period.

[joechummer]

The Tukayyid section in Invading Clans.  For a second I thought maybe they had confused him with Leo Showers, who, although dead at the time, WAS a MechWarrior.

Then again, in the Diamond Shark section, it says that Vandervahn Chistu was Khan of the Falcons before the invasion, and Elias Crichell was the saKhan.  Despite being backwards, this gem also completely forgets that Timur Malthus was the Falcons' saKhan until the debacle at Twycross.

[Jaim Magnus]

Only mention I can find of what Osis was piloting is at the bottom of page 62, left column, where it mentions his battle armour being shot.

[Jaim Magnus]

Then again, in the Diamond Shark section, it says that Vandervahn Chistu was Khan of the Falcons before the invasion, and Elias Crichell was the saKhan.  Despite being backwards, this gem also completely forgets that Timur Malthus was the Falcons' saKhan until the debacle at Twycross.

Sadly, much of the early Clan sources have such errors.

[joechummer]

Doesn't it mention something about Osis being found alive in his cockpit and that Khan Brandon Howell stepping down to saKhan once he found out?

[joechummer]

Sadly, much of the early Clan sources have such errors.

I blame the infancy of the internet: the authors weren't quite so well connected back then to compare notes.  See the acknowledgments in FM:CC and FM:WC to see the kind of thing I'm talking about.   ;D

[Jaim Magnus]

Doesn't it mention something about Osis being found alive in his cockpit and that Khan Brandon Howell stepping down to saKhan once he found out?

It says he was rescued during 'salvage operations' ... bottom of page 62, right column.  And yes, Brandon Howell had been elected Khan but took the lower post once Osis was found alive.

[joechummer]

So there's nothing in that section about anyone piloting a Summoner during Tukayyid in the SJ section?  I just read that part last night, and here I am without it sitting in front of me...

[Jaim Magnus]

Not that I saw.  Only specific reference I see to a 'Mech is Sarah Weaver's Warhawk.

[joechummer]

Well, this is going to bug me.  I've spent several months compiling notes on all of the Clans from sourcebooks both old and new, and I even noted last night while reading the SJ section in IC that "Khan Lincoln Osis piloted a Summoner."  I'm going to have to find where I got that from, because now I'm starting to doubt my sanity.

[Jaim Magnus]

Well, given the 5 khan's listed in the old sources, a little confusion is to be expected.

[RAE]

So there's nothing in that section about anyone piloting a Summoner during Tukayyid in the SJ section?  I just read that part last night, and here I am without it sitting in front of me...

It was Loremaster Edmund Hoyt, who piloted that Summoner on Tukkayid. Khan Lincoln Osis was actually riding into the battle not in a Summoner, but on it, and when Hoyt was killed in the Dinju Pass along with most of the 6th Jaguar Dragoons, Osis was pinned to the ground by the falling 'Mech (ER:3052, p.57).

[joechummer]

It was Loremaster Edmund Hoyt, who piloted that Summoner on Tukkayid. Khan Lincoln Osis was actually riding into the battle not in a Summoner, but on it, and when Hoyt was killed in the Dinju Pass along with most of the 6th Jaguar Dragoons, Osis was pinned to the ground by the falling 'Mech (ER:3052, p.57).

So the part I'm thinking of in IC is referring to Lincoln's RIDE, not his actual 'Mech?  Now that makes much more sense.

[Guardsman]

Canon-wise, Tukayyid is a bit of a mess. Either that, or Clan Smoke Jaguar had about 5 Khans during the Battle of Tukayyid, some who took over after others died, and then gave up their position when the dead men came back. I once read every Smoke Jaguar source, took some notes, and then went crosseyed at all the contradictions.

[RAE]

Canon-wise, Tukayyid is a bit of a mess. Either that, or Clan Smoke Jaguar had about 5 Khans during the Battle of Tukayyid, some who took over after others died, and then gave up their position when the dead men came back. I once read every Smoke Jaguar source, took some notes, and then went crosseyed at all the contradictions.

Well, it's not a mess now. At least, not after ER:3052. The correct order is:

Khan Leo Showers (3029-3048) *elected ilKhan*
Khan Lincoln Osis (3048-3052) *was either a Star Captain or Star Colonel in the 6th Jaguar Dragoons at the time; when Showers was elected ilKhan, Osis challenged and defeated saKhan Sarah Weaver for the position of senior Khan*
Khan Brandon Howell (3052) *elected as a replacement for Osis; stepped down from Khan's post to become a saKhan when Osis returned from the dead*
Khan Lincoln Osis (3052-3060)

saKhan Sarah Weaver (30??-3050)
saKhan Kincaid Furey (3050-3051) *defeated Weaver for the position after Showers' death*
saKhan Sarah Weaver (3051-3052) *defeated Furey for the position in late 3051; killed on Tukkayid*
saKhan Brandon Howell (3052-3060) *stepped down from Khan's post to become a saKhan*

As for Edmund Hoyt and Dorian Wirth, none of them were Khans. The former one was Loremaster of the Clan and the latter was a Galaxy Commander and Jaguar senior military officer on Luthien.

[Guardsman]

Many of us seem to focus on areas of the BattleTech Universe. My greatest strength is the Rim Worlds Republic. I wonder if there’s someone out there with extensive knowledge of the Fidelis. I’ve never given the Dark Age the same kind of attention I’ve given the earlier eras, and there are so much material to weed through. I would appreciate if someone could give me a summary of what’s gone on with them, and be available for some follow up questions based on the summary.

[Stockus13]

Well Paul Moon is their leader up to the end of the book.

They keep the warrior bloodlines alive in a structured breeding program. I do not think they use iron wombs though.

They still keep at least 1 warship.

And they are pretty sweet I must say.

I have a question, did Brandon Howells death ever become confirmed? In the novels they were not sure if he made it out of the command center when it was bombed.

Just curious.

[Stormfury]

The Fidelis are not Jaguars, and vice versa.

As far as Russou Howell goes, no. They were never able to account for him. However, there was no way for him to leave Huntress even if he was alive, and by the Dark Age era he would almost certainly be dead of old age if he had survived.

[Guardsman]

The Fidelis are not Jaguars, and vice versa.

As far as Russou Howell goes, no. They were never able to account for him. However, there was no way for him to leave Huntress even if he was alive, and by the Dark Age era he would almost certainly be dead of old age if he had survived.

If the Fidelis have no connection to Clan Smoke Jaguar, then where did this group come from? Where did they get their equipment? Who trained them? And why do people on these forums refer to them as the descendents of Clan Smoke Jaguar?

[joechummer]

The Fidelis DID come from Smoke Jaguars, but they are not considered Smoke Jaguars any more than current day Mexicans are considered Mayans.

Make sense?

[Guardsman]

The Fidelis DID come from Smoke Jaguars, but they are not considered Smoke Jaguars any more than current day Mexicans are considered Mayans.

Make sense?

Not really, given what little I’ve heard others say about them, such as something about receiving a book on their forbidden history when Paul Moon died, being released from their bonds to the Republic, and promptly disappearing. I haven’t read the original sources, tried to buy them a couple of times, but they seem to be out of print, so I’m curious, yet what I’ve heard in the last few posts seems to contradict everything, albeit limited, that I have heard about them.

[Stormfury]

Blaine Lee Parde, author of Surrender Your Dreams, has stated multiple times in the past that the Fidelis, despite their origins, are not and will not be Smoke Jaguars. That was never his intent, and was apparently something he also stressed to the powers that be at the time.

Regardless of the zealous optimism of some posters here, the Jaguars are dead and gone, never to return.

[Guardsman]

Blaine Lee Parde, author of Surrender Your Dreams, has stated multiple times in the past that the Fidelis, despite their origins, are not and will not be Smoke Jaguars. That was never his intent, and was apparently something he also stressed to the powers that be at the time.

Regardless of the zealous optimism of some posters here, the Jaguars are dead and gone, never to return.

[Jar Jar Binks]Ooooh, maxibig..."Blaine Lee Padoe"...Wellen, dat smells stinkowiff.[/Jar Jar Binks]

[joechummer]

Blaine Lee Parde, author of Surrender Your Dreams, has stated multiple times in the past that the Fidelis, despite their origins, are not and will not be Smoke Jaguars. That was never his intent, and was apparently something he also stressed to the powers that be at the time.

Regardless of the zealous optimism of some posters here, the Jaguars are dead and gone, never to return.

Exactly.  Their ancestors were once Smoke Jaguars, but whatever Jaguar lineage and Clan culture they may have had at one time died in the Great Refusal with the rest of the Smoke Jaguar Touman.

[Guardsman]

Exactly.  Their ancestors were once Smoke Jaguars, but whatever Jaguar lineage and Clan culture they may have had at one time died in the Great Refusal with the rest of the Smoke Jaguar Touman.

What was the deal with the book of forbidden lore that they were given upon Paul Moon's death?

[Deadborder]

Not clear, but I'd guess it was the Smoke Jaguar Rememberance.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Well, if the Fidelis can't be Jaguars, there is still the Jaguars aboard the Streaking Mist keeping to their heritage. The Brotherhood of Randis have a lot of closet Jaguars too.

[Stockus13]

Well they are Jaguar decendents keeping the bloodlines alive.Hence the rememberence, breeding protocol etc.

I like to think of them as Jaguars that have evolved and learned from the mistakes that led to their destruction. Paul Moon saw that and tried to salvage what remained of his people.