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Author Topic: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?  (Read 9478 times)

Diablo48

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #60 on: 05 June 2012, 22:29:46 »
The problem with that is 1) you have to hit each individual target on the opposing side with a NARC pod for it to work and 2) you have to find a unit that has a NARC launcher and doesn't royally suck.

The second problem is usually much worse than the first.

That is what custom omni configurations are for.  You do not need a good canon NARC platform if your group will let you pod one onto a Viper or Fire Moth.


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Wildonion

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #61 on: 05 June 2012, 22:32:43 »
And if you aren't playing a group the enforces Clan honor.  O0 That said, there are a couple of choices for IS light Omnis to use.

Scotty

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #62 on: 05 June 2012, 22:33:37 »
I'm a fan of Artemis only if it's on bigger LRM launchers, and then only if I'm not going to be using TAG in the field.  For a mercenary unit, I'd pass on almost all opportunities, preferring cheaper LRM munitions and an extra ton of payload space.  For House Units, I'll take Artemis if I don't expect TAG support.
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willydstyle

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #63 on: 05 June 2012, 22:43:32 »
And if you aren't playing a group the enforces Clan honor.  O0 That said, there are a couple of choices for IS light Omnis to use.

In the Jihad era, most of the "original 16" omnis are available in varying degrees to most IS powers.

Also, even the Clan's don't always play by Zellbrigen.  Only when facing a *very* honorable IS opponent who has declared a Trial, or when fighting against a Clan opponent who has not previously broken Zellbrigen.  Some clans even goad their clan opponents into breaking Zell first so they can use it as an excuse to go hog-wild.  Zellbrigen is similar to the Clans what Bushido was to the samurai: more of an ideal than a reality.

Terrion

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #64 on: 05 June 2012, 23:08:06 »
Sure. I generally dislike the LRM-20, but IDF is a fantastic tool for a lot of situations. Just because I don't think Artemis IV is worth a darn doesn't mean I feel the entire weapons system needs to be scrapped. This is especially true of Clan weapons, where LRMs are half the tonnage and it's more worthwhile to mount a second launcher or another ton of ammo over improving the cluster roll for one of them.

The point is that most Artemis-equipped designs aren't built for longevity. The ones who do have it could generally utilize its removal in favor of heat sinks, extra ammo, support weapons; anything but Artemis.

Not Artemis V, that's a different story.

As counterexamples, I would offer up the Apollo -1M and -2S, Archer- 5R, -8M, -9M, and -2Rb, Argus -2D and the Atlas -S2 as mechs that mount Artemis with plenty of ammo, heat sinks, armor, and support weapons (well, assuming you flip the rear-facing mediums arround on some of the Archers, but that's not something involving Artemis), and that's just from the A's. You could probably tweak those designs, but I'd argue that reflects personal preference and playstyle more than actual optimization (for example, I'd add the Archer -4M, -6s and -7s to that as well, since 2 tons is IMO sufficient for a -20 launcher, but that's at least debatable).
« Last Edit: 05 June 2012, 23:10:34 by Terrion »

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #65 on: 05 June 2012, 23:56:24 »
That is what custom omni configurations are for.  You do not need a good canon NARC platform if your group will let you pod one onto a Viper or Fire Moth.

Not everybody plays Clan all the time.

Or allows customized mechs.

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garhkal

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #66 on: 06 June 2012, 00:11:44 »
True, and even when they DO allow customs, they most likely only  allow those that either SSW or HMP have validated.
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A. Lurker

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #67 on: 06 June 2012, 05:39:16 »
Let's try not to turn this into yet another canon vs. custom flame war. I'll agree that finding decent canon Narc platforms is something of a challenge -- even in-universe and in the Inner Sphere that may have something to do with people rather building something they could take into the arenas on Solaris IV or otherwise use to hunt for individual glory than purpose-designing dedicated team players.

In any case, the real advantage of Narc is that, barring ECM, it lets you fire indirectly at the tagged unit without needing a spotter -- meaning you can rain LRMs down on them no matter what they're trying to hide behind until the local cow analogues come home or the body part stuck with the beacon falls apart, whichever comes first (and if the pod just so happens to have attached itself to the CT or head, well...). The cluster bonus for direct fire is just gravy.

Wildonion

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #68 on: 06 June 2012, 10:37:57 »
In the Jihad era, most of the "original 16" omnis are available in varying degrees to most IS powers.

Also, even the Clan's don't always play by Zellbrigen.  Only when facing a *very* honorable IS opponent who has declared a Trial, or when fighting against a Clan opponent who has not previously broken Zellbrigen.  Some clans even goad their clan opponents into breaking Zell first so they can use it as an excuse to go hog-wild.  Zellbrigen is similar to the Clans what Bushido was to the samurai: more of an ideal than a reality.

That is, of course, assuming that you are playing in the Jihad era; there is a lot of ground for BattleTech games to cover, which is part of the fun. It is a lot harder to bring that kind of stuff to bear, even in the 3060's. As for the original 16 being available to most IS powers, that is also true but I always thought that was largely relegated to veteran units or those posted along the Clan front. The guys who really needed 'em. Though I would imagine the FWL has a healthy stockpile that they received while churning out refit kits and the like. Of course, all this is academic if you are just playing with friends and don't care what either side wants to field.  :)

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #69 on: 07 June 2012, 00:40:12 »
The second problem is usually much worse than the first.

Agreed.

A proper selection of C3M & NARC units is sorely missing IMHO.
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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #70 on: 07 June 2012, 00:41:51 »
That is what custom omni configurations are for.  You do not need a good canon NARC platform if your group will let you pod one onto a Viper or Fire Moth. 

Pretty sure NARC is a breach of Zell,  now an Owens with NARC, that is totally fine IMHO.
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Terrion

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #71 on: 07 June 2012, 01:37:40 »
Pretty sure NARC is a breach of Zell,  now an Owens with NARC, that is totally fine IMHO.

While I don't particularly like its use on Clan units, you can NARC for yourself. As I recall, one of BoK books has Phelan doing just that in a Trial of Position (on the other hand it apparently allows him to destory an ASF with a rockslide, so YMMV). Now how the Clans justify TAG, I have no idea.

willydstyle

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #72 on: 07 June 2012, 01:44:54 »
While I don't particularly like its use on Clan units, you can NARC for yourself. As I recall, one of BoK books has Phelan doing just that in a Trial of Position (on the other hand it apparently allows him to destory an ASF with a rockslide, so YMMV). Now how the Clans justify TAG, I have no idea.

Read the Wars of Reaving.  Even in a war that is basically started because the Clan's aren't following Zell close enough, they break Zell more often than they follow it.

A. Lurker

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Re: Anyone else a big fan of Artemis FCS?
« Reply #73 on: 07 June 2012, 02:00:48 »
While I don't particularly like its use on Clan units, you can NARC for yourself. As I recall, one of BoK books has Phelan doing just that in a Trial of Position (on the other hand it apparently allows him to destory an ASF with a rockslide, so YMMV). Now how the Clans justify TAG, I have no idea.

They justify it by "zellbrigen is for honorable opponents" -- with the enemy getting no say in whether or not they're considered "honorable", of course. Considering how positively eager some Clan forces are to claim breach of etiquette and start a melee at the first flimsy excuse, I think the importance of dueling in Clan culture gets a bit overstated by the player community at large. It is an important part of "proper" battlefield conduct under appropriate circumstances, to be sure, but the Clans have never been exactly shy about taking the gloves off the moment somebody annoys them too much either.

So TAG -- and the artillery that goes with it, semi-guided LRMs still being primarily an Inner Sphere thing last time I checked -- certainly has its uses. They may not be particularly glorious, which is why those units get something of a bum rap...but they do get the job done once called upon to do so.