Best dropships for BA?

[Istal_Devalis]

Wouldn't it be 4 bits ?
The Aurora isn't an omni though.  Not even close to it really.
I read the fluff as the entire cargo bay (square external box) can be removed (with cranes & other heavy construction gear) in a few days (versus 30 mins for an omnimech) and a new one (with a different internal layout) attached.

Well the important bit is you can do it with 'limited ground support', which implies you can do so without the full facilities you'd need for a non-modular dropship.

...Thinking about it, and looking over Strat Ops, what sort of refit is replacing a bay type, anyways? From a literal reading of the rules, replacing a 150 ton mech bay with a 150 ton aerospace bay would only be a Class A, or a Class B if you consider it a 'different class' of equipment? Maybe a Class C or Class D if you're replacing a Big bay with two little bays, or increasing the size of the bay. If it's just a field refit, you wouldnt need the advanced facilities anyways, although if you're using the Modular Weapons quirk, 15 days is definitely faster then 30 days to replace the things

[Belisarius]

What about two bays for 1x heavy vehicle each with Triremes and two companies of BA of 9x squads each? The whole formation moves at 9x hexes once it's grounded and it can get to and fight from / around a city like nobody's business. Add in some of those BA suits being armed with TAG and another Aurora that delivers 8x each Yellow Jackets w/ Arrow IV and you've got a mean team. A battalion task force in two Auroras.

[Hellraiser]

Well the important bit is you can do it with 'limited ground support', which implies you can do so without the full facilities you'd need for a non-modular dropship.

...Thinking about it, and looking over Strat Ops, what sort of refit is replacing a bay type, anyways? From a literal reading of the rules, replacing a 150 ton mech bay with a 150 ton aerospace bay would only be a Class A, or a Class B if you consider it a 'different class' of equipment? Maybe a Class C or Class D if you're replacing a Big bay with two little bays, or increasing the size of the bay. If it's just a field refit, you wouldnt need the advanced facilities anyways, although if you're using the Modular Weapons quirk, 15 days is definitely faster then 30 days to replace the things 

I tried asking that question in the past. 
In the end they apply to Mechs near as I can tell & Per Cray, in some other thread, modifying a Large Craft takes a full shipyard.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

I tried asking that question in the past. 
In the end they apply to Mechs near as I can tell & Per Cray, in some other thread, modifying a Large Craft takes a full shipyard.

Doesn't the Seeker's fluff mention it's bays are very flexible in the ways they can be configured?

[Hellraiser]

Doesn't the Seeker's fluff mention it's bays are very flexible in the ways they can be configured? 

It does.
There is fluff on tons of DS mentioning what they "could" do, CV versions of the Union,  Triumphs holding mechs, etc etc.

However I don't think any of them mention that it was specifically done in the field.

Given how roomy they are in dimensions I would say most DS "could" be reconfigured to carry something else,  but that doesn't mean it can be done w/o shipyard time.

[Belisarius]

I thought the Aurora was supposed to be 'modular'. I take it that there's no rules associated with that fluff? Darn.

[Hellraiser]

I thought the Aurora was supposed to be 'modular'. I take it that there's no rules associated with that fluff? Darn. 

It is, other DS are not.  And even the Aurora takes time to add on the new cargo container.
Its not like Omnimechs where its 30 mins in & out.

[Belisarius]

But there would be nothing weird about an Aurora being so equipped, quiaff?

[Weirdo]

VERY weird. Omni connectors might be sufficient to hold on to a ten ton gun, but a one-fifty ton mech bay is another matter entirely. The Aurora is about as Omni as a Mercury or O-Bakemono.

[sillybrit]

Did something liek the Kirg-C get a boost after dropping 10 tons of BA ?
I don't recall how "rounding" worked but I assume you'd have to drop enough to actually "hit" the next movement bracket.  So to use said Kirg-C, you had to drop the BA & another 15 tons of guns for a +1 MP.

I actually looked at the rule last night. You divided the Engine Rating by the new mass, rounding all fractions down, and then added 2. As a result, the Kirg-C would not have been able to get a boost. However, dropping a jammed UAC/20 and its ammo pods would probably push you over.

The Kirg-B could turn into a monster with those rules: Fire all of your LRM-20 ammo, then ditch all five launchers  and all five ammo pods to shed 30 tons and gain a 6/9 thrust profile with 3 ER-PPCs and the sinks to Alpha constantly. It could wreak havoc with missiles and then hit the "Slim Fast" button to ditch the dead weight and turn into an over-armored, up-gunned Slayer. It was the Armored Valkyrie of Aerospace Fighters. Itano Circus, then ditch missile pods and go to town.

This rule had some abuse potential on fighters carrying bombs, since bombload used to be by thrust, not fighter size/weight. This was back when a Vandal could carry a 400 point bombload and still get 6/9 out of the deal without any help. It was possible to load a fast fighter up with 40-60 points of extra bombs and then ditch some unneeded pods to make up the weight.

In the original rules, first published in TRO3050, OmniFighters did recalculate their Thrust as they dropped pods, but that's not so under Total War. Herb confirmed this in a question posted in the Rules Question section, although that was on the old iteration of the board.

[Fireangel]

In the original rules, first published in TRO3050, OmniFighters did recalculate their Thrust as they dropped pods, but that's not so under Total War. Herb confirmed this in a question posted in the Rules Question section, although that was on the old iteration of the board.

TRO: 3050 did not have omnifighters. They made their first appearance in TRO: 3055 and had no rules associated with them in that publication.

[sillybrit]

TRO: 3050 did not have omnifighters. They made their first appearance in TRO: 3055 and had no rules associated with them in that publication.

Nope, I was correct with what I said.

You need to read the back of TRO3050, page 224 to be precise, where it had the first construction rules for OmniFighters, plus very basic descriptions of three generalised CLan OmniFighters, simply labelled Light, Medium and Heavy, and having little in the way of usable stats.

As I said previously, the rules printed in TRO3050 stated that Thrust ratings were calculated on the fly, specifically allowing the dropping of pods to increase performance.

[Fireangel]

Nope, I was correct with what I said.

Well I'll be...

You are indeed correct: I had not looked at those pages since the Battletech Compendium came out... except for pp. 214, which mentions the 1-crit cLL and the 2-crit cPPC.  ::)

Y'know, that dropped pod rule was just ripe for abuse. I can see why it was dropped so early.

[Hellraiser]

VERY weird. Omni connectors might be sufficient to hold on to a ten ton gun, but a one-fifty ton mech bay is another matter entirely. The Aurora is about as Omni as a Mercury or O-Bakemono.

Agreed.

But there would be nothing weird about an Aurora being so equipped, quiaff?

The Aurora "Can" be exchanged, true, but again, this isn't like swapping an ERPPC for LPL.

The way I read it is the Aurora removes the entire "box-like" bay from the vessels spine...... 150+ Tons of Tonnage.
I picture this only being done at a full star port where your spare "omni-pods" in this case spare "boxes" that are outfitted w/ different configurations are stored.
Its going to take a crane w/ the power to move something that big.
Mind you now Heavy Recovery Vehicles can barely move a 100 Ton Atlas,  so,  we are needing some sort of BIG cargo mover for this.
Its going to take days/weeks in the fluff IIRC,  which is still better than weeks/months of shipyard time for a normal DS.


To me the great thing about the Aurora isn't that you can "change" it at your whim.
Its that its available BRAND SPANKING NEW in canon to anyone willing to work for the FC/LA/Skye March and that you can custom order it at your whim with ease since they designed it that way.

Its not like saying,  I'd like to buy an Overlord that carries 1 mech company, 2 Fighter Squadrons, 1 Heavy Vee Company, 1 Light Vee Company, 1 Mixed Motorized/Jump/BA Company.
There is no canon layout like that, the engineers don't set up ships like that on a regular basis.

With the Aurora, Someone like the ELH can request a unit built specifically for their "Recon" Lances.
  They can request, 1 Mech Pod,  2 Triple-LightVee pods,  & 1 BA/Infantry Pod, and be able to drop off 1 Recon Lance & a Pathfinders Unit from the same Dropship.

My personal favorite is to use it as a BA delivery unit & "support" unit w/ pods of conventional infantry bays to move all my "techs/grunts" that are not getting moved in my mech carriers.

[Belisarius]

So it could, and probably would, begin showing up in significantly different configurations from all the different customers.

[Fireangel]

So it could, and probably would, begin showing up in significantly different configurations from all the different customers.

Yup. One I'd love to see in artwork is an intermodal container freighter. Each "pod" can carry six standard 25-ton containers or 15 standard 10-ton containers.

[Hellraiser]

Yup. One I'd love to see in artwork is an intermodal container freighter. Each "pod" can carry six standard 25-ton containers or 15 standard 10-ton containers. 

I could see it now, it opens up & its just a couple "shelves" in there and on each one are rows of freight cargo containers like you see in blue water shipping.

So it could, and probably would, begin showing up in significantly different configurations from all the different customers. 

Yep, canon fluff has "Standard" variants for 4 Mechs, 4 Fighters, 12 Light Vees, raw Cargo Hauler, & a Fuel Tanker as the 5 most common.
But, a Gunship variant & Infantry Battalion are both custom (rarer) models that have been ordered.
  A BA pod can be seen in 3075 artwork w/ suits dropping right out of the pods.
Last but not least a "combined arms company" variant is mentioned, my guess is this is a mix of the Vee & Infantry modules on the same platform.  3 Vees (9 total) & 1 Infantry Company pod would work I think, but you could go for a custom 2 LtVee+1InfPlt pod x4.

[Istal_Devalis]

Agreed.
The Aurora "Can" be exchanged, true, but again, this isn't like swapping an ERPPC for LPL.

The way I read it is the Aurora removes the entire "box-like" bay from the vessels spine...... 150+ Tons of Tonnage.
I picture this only being done at a full star port where your spare "omni-pods" in this case spare "boxes" that are outfitted w/ different configurations are stored.
Its going to take a crane w/ the power to move something that big.

From the fluff...

"lthough the necessities of structural integrity do not allow these bays to be quickly attached or released, an Aurora can be reconfigured for specific roles in a matter of days with only limited ground support."

How you want to define 'Limited ground support' is certainly up for argument, but the intention to me is that you wouldnt need a full starport to do it. Still, I think that flexibility is going to help with logistics and unit transport a lot.

[Belisarius]

I ask because, I have to admit, I've always tried to reconcile the formations seen in MW:DA with those of Battletech, and the only way I'd found was mixed companies of an LCT-like formation. A mixed company transport designed out of the Aurora might make that possible.

[Fireangel]

How you want to define 'Limited ground support' is certainly up for argument, but the intention to me is that you wouldnt need a full starport to do it.

I would guess that you'd need A) the modules to swap in (i.e. you can't scratch-build them in the field), B) a means of actually lifting 150 tons and holding it there and C) technical knowhow and the manpower to pull it off (i.e. the more advanced the facilities, the less manpower is needed).

Of course, as stated, it's up for argument.

[Hellraiser]

"lthough the necessities of structural integrity do not allow these bays to be quickly attached or released, an Aurora can be reconfigured for specific roles in a matter of days with only limited ground support."

How you want to define 'Limited ground support' is certainly up for argument, but the intention to me is that you wouldnt need a full starport to do it. Still, I think that flexibility is going to help with logistics and unit transport a lot.

I would guess that you'd need A) the modules to swap in (i.e. you can't scratch-build them in the field), B) a means of actually lifting 150 tons and holding it there and C) technical knowhow and the manpower to pull it off (i.e. the more advanced the facilities, the less manpower is needed).

Agreed,  I can see "limited" as as little as 1 Crane & 1 Cargo Mover that both have 150+ ton capacity.
That said, the most common place to have those, and the most common place to store the spare "pods" would be at your spaceport.


"Days" is also up for debate.
Obviously its 2+, and since "Week" would be 7 Days, I like to think of it as 2-6 Days w/ Average being 4.
  This works well since, while I don't have it in front of me, I swore repair times could be sped up or slowed down based on expertise, manpower, & support equipment.
Base Time 4 also works, IMHO, since there are 4 pods so, in theory we could say its 1 Pod per 24 hours. 

This could lead to a lot of variety in situations.
Swap just 1 pod out in a full spaceport w/ Massive help, & blam, done in 8-12 hours.
Swap all 4 out in the field w/ a small tech crew & just the one crane & mover & it might take you well over a week to get it done.

The more I think about it the more I like the variation.

[Hellraiser]

I ask because, I have to admit, I've always tried to reconcile the formations seen in MW:DA with those of Battletech, and the only way I'd found was mixed companies of an LCT-like formation. A mixed company transport designed out of the Aurora might make that possible.

Aye, I think the Aurora fluff might have been specifically set up as a way to carry the DA units we used to field.
  You know 1-2 mechs, a few Vees, and some infantry.


Pod-1:  Mech
Pod-2:  3 Light Vees
Pod-3:  1 Heavy Vee & 50 Tons Cargo  (Not listed in canon fluff but I like it as an option)
Pod-4:  Combo of BA Platoon + Infantry Company + Cargo

Makes for a very MWDA type force IMHO.

[Belisarius]

Concur, Hellraiser, precisely the kind of formation I had in my head.

[Fireangel]

It would also depend on what cubicle is being replaced by what; converting from a bulk liquid reefer to a 3-WiGE launcher will be a heck of a lot harder than converting an ASF cubicle so straight cargo.