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Author Topic: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.  (Read 5787 times)

Stormcrow

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #30 on: 25 June 2012, 09:05:22 »
The Hunchie 4G is a decent 'mech for city fights, as had already been said. However, I have always found a soft
spot for the 4J.

I'm a big fan of the Hunchie 4H. I still have the big gun (with more range) backed up by medium laser spam.
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AWAD

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #31 on: 25 June 2012, 09:12:14 »
That Mech is the Hunchback HBK-4G.  What does everyone else think of the Mech?
Looks really cool?

Plus in 3025 era anything else less than 80 tons carry the big hole maker?

Yes it has its flaws but it can be used as an anvil, area denial, or bait. And it is relatively cheap.

Did I say looks really cool

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klinktastic

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #32 on: 25 June 2012, 10:10:04 »
Don't see too many Hunchbacks in our campaign.  I think we had one at one point, but it has long since been destroyed or sold off.  It's decent in 3025-3050, but as Lostech makes it way back into the fold, there are too many hard(ish) hitting long range weapons that can nullify the Hunchback before it gets into the fray. 

Side note - A dirty trick is to dump most of the AC20 ammo pregame, so you don't go boom.  It turns it into a nice Fire Magnet / Meatshield that won't instantly explode under concentrated fire.
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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #33 on: 25 June 2012, 10:27:49 »
Aye, as far as stats go, you're almost certainly better off with a Swayback, but the HBK belongs in set piece battles or defending.  Send the HBKs in when you've run the enemy to ground or pinned them, and a heavily armoured beatstick is what's needed.  Where the HBK really missed the boat is 3050...it never got faster, despite any other 'improvements'.  Its especially damning when the Stormcrow B is such a glaringly superior machine and even the Kit Fox can carry a similar armament.  The IS gets Thunders(which are good) and Blitzkriegs(meh) but the HBK still languishes save the SG, which addresses the range and ease with which it is hit.

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #34 on: 25 June 2012, 10:57:29 »
To be fair, a lot of 'Mechs in 3050 got beaten with the "Questionable Upgrade" stick.  Enough that I get a fair amount of fun taking new tech and actually making sensical upgrades.

The HBK-4G in particular has quite a few wonderful options available for upgrade.  Switching to double heatsinks and dropping down to ten is a no brainer, as it takes up a grand total of one more crit on a frame that's got a couple dozen left over anyway.  Keep the AC/20 or switch it for a Gauss Rifle, whichever you prefer; when you drop the three new extra heatsinks, you've got a few extra tons to buffer the upgrade, or to add some more ammo to the AC.  The -4G is one of the very few 'Mechs that gets a no questions asked upgrade to XL engine, as you can bump the speed all the way up to 6/9 if you keep the Gauss Rifle with two tons of ammo or the AC/20 with three.  In 3050 ER lasers besides the large aren't available, so keep those the same.  Endo-Steel and Ferro-Fibrous are pretty much completely unnecessary, and the result is a 6/9 heavily armored Gauss Rifle and some lasers.  Slightly less powerful bubble of doom, but it's still a headcapper, and now it reaches out and touches someone at 24 hexes.  Or you can just have a faster AC/20 with the same armor and some more ammo.

3050 designs are just headscratchers.
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StCptMara

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #35 on: 25 June 2012, 11:21:39 »
To be fair, a lot of 'Mechs in 3050 got beaten with the "Questionable Upgrade" stick.  Enough that I get a fair amount of fun taking new tech and actually making sensical upgrades.
>snips hunchback upgrade discussion<
3050 designs are just headscratchers.

In my group, we call it "new toy syndrome."
If you notice, right after a new piece of tech was developed for the Inner Sphere, among a few good designs, a good number
of the initial ones, frankly, sucked. (C3 Master Atlas with the C3 Master in an arm, Heavy Gauss Hollander II, almost every
mech in TRO 3050 with an XL engine...)
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martian

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #36 on: 25 June 2012, 12:12:43 »
HBK-4G is good in 3025 games, but of limited use in 3050+ games (bodyguard, city fighting ...). Luckily, there are dozens of variants to choose from.

mitchberthelson

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #37 on: 25 June 2012, 12:14:09 »
The Hunchie 4G is a decent 'mech for city fights, as had already been said. However, I have always found a soft
spot for the 4J.

Many of the Hunchie's variants are excellent, whether you're adding LRM's, SRM's, or Medium Lasers in place of the AC. Additionally, the 5N fixes the "stupid ammo" problem, and the 6N goes even further and carries four tons of ammo while removing the oversinking issues of the 5M and 5N. The 5SG would have been a dream if actually produced, but you can get close by doing the Gauss swap a few people have already mentioned.

One other thing that the Hunchback does well aside from close fighting in tight terrain is acting as a bodyguard member of a Fire or Assault Lance. Have it act as close in defense for three Archers and it can serve well. It also shines when paired with machines like the Stalker or Awesome which tend to draw fire away from it and can benefit from protection against backstabbers (though in the Stalker's case, you'll mostly be keeping it from having to split its attention, since its weapons array offers good backstabber protection).

A. Lurker

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #38 on: 25 June 2012, 13:14:54 »
One other thing that the Hunchback does well aside from close fighting in tight terrain is acting as a bodyguard member of a Fire or Assault Lance. Have it act as close in defense for three Archers and it can serve well. It also shines when paired with machines like the Stalker or Awesome which tend to draw fire away from it and can benefit from protection against backstabbers (though in the Stalker's case, you'll mostly be keeping it from having to split its attention, since its weapons array offers good backstabber protection).

There is that, I suppose. One thing that's sometimes easy to forget is that, Solaris VII, zellbrigen, and maybe bushido and some other more personal codes of chivalry aside, most 'Mechs aren't built for dueling. They're armored combat units very much like tanks -- their primary purpose is to operate as part of a larger force (which also generally handles the logistics of keeping them in ammo, replacement armor, spare parts and the occasional spare pilot), not go out on their own without backup to challenge the enemy to single combat. Yes, that sort of thing quite naturally happens anyway, but it's still not what your average BattleMech, certain Solaris designs perhaps aside, is generally for.

It's just easy to forget because duels are the easiest kind of fight to set up and run at the actual gaming table. ;)

billtfor3

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #39 on: 25 June 2012, 14:15:05 »
Tactics make a Hunchie valuable anywhere.  If you have something that would draw a lot of fire, put the HBK with it as a shield/OH SHEET KILL DA HUNCHBACK.

Run everywhere, and from cover to cover.  When something is within 9 hexs WALK or RUN straight at them.

Have Fire Support?  Let the HBK guard them to keep pesky recon Mechs from getting in their minimums.
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BARNESGN

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #40 on: 25 June 2012, 15:36:49 »
I like it and my players like it. Imagine a world with a bubble of death 9 hexes round. Well pretty close.I like to think of the Hunchback as a pusher mech it pushes the enemy around the map nicely.

Fireangel

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #41 on: 25 June 2012, 16:49:39 »
Tactics make a Hunchie valuable anywhere.*

*If you have something that would draw a lot of fire, put the HBK with it as a shield/OH SHEET KILL DA HUNCHBACK.


"Anywhere" does have limits; don't try to cross open plains defended by Gauss & LRM's. O:-)

Dave Talley

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #42 on: 25 June 2012, 20:33:54 »

 KILL DA HUNCHBACK.

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Col.Hengist

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #43 on: 25 June 2012, 21:02:05 »
Shhhhhhh. Be vewy,vewy quiet... I'm hunting hunchbacks. Huhuhuhuhu  ;D
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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #44 on: 25 June 2012, 22:43:14 »
I think the Hunchback is a great, city or terrain fighter, but in clear field it could be better.
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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #45 on: 25 June 2012, 23:31:24 »


Plus in 3025 era anything else less than 80 tons carry the big hole maker?


Yes there is. There is an Urbanmech variant with an AC20 and a Centurion variant with an AC20 also that I can think of offhand. Rommel tank, Hetzer wheeled tank and Saladin hover tanks all have AC20s and are less than 80 tons.

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #46 on: 26 June 2012, 00:33:35 »
Yes there is. There is an Urbanmech variant with an AC20 and a Centurion variant with an AC20 also that I can think of offhand. Rommel tank, Hetzer wheeled tank and Saladin hover tanks all have AC20s and are less than 80 tons.

Force

Of course, the Urbanmech has almost no armour and only 1 ton of ammo, the Hetzer and Saladin both only face forward, so are
much more vulnerable to outflanking. The Centurion has an LRM 10 as its only back-up weapon to the AC/20.
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Greywind

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #47 on: 26 June 2012, 00:56:11 »
Properly employed, the LRM 10 is a lead-in, not a backup.

A. Lurker

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #48 on: 26 June 2012, 02:22:27 »
Aye, as far as stats go, you're almost certainly better off with a Swayback, but the HBK belongs in set piece battles or defending.  Send the HBKs in when you've run the enemy to ground or pinned them, and a heavily armoured beatstick is what's needed.  Where the HBK really missed the boat is 3050...it never got faster, despite any other 'improvements'.  Its especially damning when the Stormcrow B is such a glaringly superior machine and even the Kit Fox can carry a similar armament.  The IS gets Thunders(which are good) and Blitzkriegs(meh) but the HBK still languishes save the SG, which addresses the range and ease with which it is hit.

Hm, point. With advanced construction it wouldn't be hard to push the Hunchback to 5/8 on even a standard engine, faster still if you use a lighter one...

...that said, I suppose one in-universe reason could be that the flat-out more powerful engines (regardless of type) needed to make that upgrade were already in demand for other machines both old and new and so the question of sticking a 250- or even 300-rated fusion reactor that could just as well go into revolutionary new 'Mech X into the plain old traditionally slow Hunchback instead just somehow never came up.

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #49 on: 26 June 2012, 05:31:44 »
There is already a faster Hunchback, the -6S from RS 3050 upgrade. It runs 6/9/0 and looks like a stopgap measurement between the standard Hunchback and the Blitzkrieg (not as fast as a Blitzkrieg but with more weapons).

That said i am not a friend of the -4G, i tend to use the -4H. An AC 10 around 3025 is still a threat but has the longer range and this Hunch can still hit with the same damage volume at shorter ranges.

willydstyle

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #50 on: 26 June 2012, 05:52:22 »
There is already a faster Hunchback, the -6S from RS 3050 upgrade. It runs 6/9/0 and looks like a stopgap measurement between the standard Hunchback and the Blitzkrieg (not as fast as a Blitzkrieg but with more weapons).

That said i am not a friend of the -4G, i tend to use the -4H. An AC 10 around 3025 is still a threat but has the longer range and this Hunch can still hit with the same damage volume at shorter ranges.

I think the AC10 gets saddled with a lot of the autocannon hate that people associate with the 5 and 2.  It's a damned fine gun for the era.

A. Lurker

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #51 on: 26 June 2012, 06:45:35 »
I think the AC10 gets saddled with a lot of the autocannon hate that people associate with the 5 and 2.  It's a damned fine gun for the era.

The AC/10 is a good gun for its era, but some people will still compare it to a PPC or large laser and come to the conclusion that it falls a bit short. The fact that there was a time when the LB 10-X made it strictly obsolete once available (before the RL introduction of alternate standard AC ammo types, and especially in that brief period when the 10-class was the only type even available in LB-X) may also still play into it a bit.

Really though, I think it's safe to say that the 20-class autocannons are the only ones that stand out enough from the crowd for most people to immediately respect. The others kind of just blend in with the general weapons mix.

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #52 on: 26 June 2012, 12:31:31 »
Really though, I think it's safe to say that the 20-class autocannons are the only ones that stand out enough from the crowd for most people to immediately respect. The others kind of just blend in with the general weapons mix.

that isn't respect, it's fear. a 20-point blow will take almost any section off of a light and some medium 'mechs with no questions asked and put a big weak point on nearly anything else. anything that can hit you once and reverse your plans is scary.
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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #53 on: 26 June 2012, 13:45:00 »
that isn't respect, it's fear. a 20-point blow will take almost any section off of a light and some medium 'mechs with no questions asked and put a big weak point on nearly anything else. anything that can hit you once and reverse your plans is scary.

I agree with the both of you. 4 ML or an AC20? Heck 6ML or an AC20? which breeds fear? The 6ML may have a better damage curve but it is all about location location location. That it just  looks cool.

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #54 on: 27 June 2012, 09:49:29 »
You want HBK heaven?  Try fielding a "one each" lance of HBK-4G, 4H, 4J, and 4P.  That's enough variety and sheer weight of weaponry, and probably enough armor, to scare most assault lances.

You've got:
2 - LRM-10 racks at long range
1 - AC/10 at medium
1 - AC/20 and something like 18-20 MLs at short
...with the ability to fire the vast majority of it every turn.

At a respectable 160 points of armor per 'Mech, it's not going down without concentrating comparable firepower back at it.

About the only thing I'd be afraid to take on with it is a horde of Locusts (a backstabber's dream: 12 movement points to spend, and a HBK's paper-thin rear armor at the end of it).

StCptMara

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #55 on: 27 June 2012, 12:11:17 »
You want HBK heaven?  Try fielding a "one each" lance of HBK-4G, 4H, 4J, and 4P.  That's enough variety and sheer weight of weaponry, and probably enough armor, to scare most assault lances.

You've got:
2 - LRM-10 racks at long range
1 - AC/10 at medium
1 - AC/20 and something like 18-20 MLs at short
...with the ability to fire the vast majority of it every turn.

At a respectable 160 points of armor per 'Mech, it's not going down without concentrating comparable firepower back at it.

About the only thing I'd be afraid to take on with it is a horde of Locusts (a backstabber's dream: 12 movement points to spend, and a HBK's paper-thin rear armor at the end of it).

I actually will NOT use that lance with the sheer percentage of newbies/not much practice players in our group. Frankly, that
would just be evil with some of them(One guy couldn't take down a Gauss-zilla with a GRand Dragon 7K on a map with plenty of cover!)
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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #56 on: 27 June 2012, 12:14:26 »
I actually will NOT use that lance with the sheer percentage of newbies/not much practice players in our group. Frankly, that
would just be evil with some of them(One guy couldn't take down a Gauss-zilla with a GRand Dragon 7K on a map with plenty of cover!)

Considering that the dragon doesn't have jump jets, so its mobility will be hampered by a map with "plenty of cover" I don't see how this is evidence that someone is not a good player.  The Gausszilla's damage output is simply way higher, and with only a 2 hex minimum range gauss rifles aren't that weak in close.

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #57 on: 27 June 2012, 12:25:18 »
Love it, it's a first pick for me in any 3025 era game.

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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #58 on: 27 June 2012, 20:58:12 »
Considering that the dragon doesn't have jump jets, so its mobility will be hampered by a map with "plenty of cover" I don't see how this is evidence that someone is not a good player.  The Gausszilla's damage output is simply way higher, and with only a 2 hex minimum range gauss rifles aren't that weak in close.

Because he did not use his speed advantage to get around behind the Gausszilla, and tried to attack it head on?
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Re: One Mech seems to be a smash hit with all my players.
« Reply #59 on: 27 June 2012, 20:59:45 »
Even at 2/3 a mech can get you in it's front arc with a walking AMM and torso twist, on turns it wins initiative.