Register Register

Author Topic: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery  (Read 748 times)

Tangoforone

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 148
Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« on: 26 February 2019, 13:38:57 »
Looking into acquiring a Naga for my current campaign and I had a question about Clan access to Arrow IV special munitions.  Going onto Sarna, it looks like the following special munitions rounds, that I am interested in, exist:  FASCAM, TAG Guided, Inferno-IV, and Smoke.  Obviously they have FASCAM, and I assume they have TAG Guided.  But it seems that the Inferno-IV and Smoke were developed by the Capellans.

Would it be safe to assume that Clans would be able to get access to these missile types or no?

Would they even use them?  I know Clans aren't too stoked about artillery with their honor and all that, but we are playing in the 3070's, so they have had some time to understand that not everyone fights with honor.

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8032
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #1 on: 26 February 2019, 13:45:06 »
Clans have access to Smoke per my copy of TACOPS,  but not Inferno-IV.

I think there might have been some fluff about the clans not using Inferno SRMs in the past, and they have had limited access to the CapCon so no, I don't think they would use them or have had much time to develop them.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Tangoforone

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 148
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #2 on: 28 February 2019, 13:17:47 »
Thanks for the update.  I'm used to playing WOB, who will use every dirty trick in the book and could give a rat's ass about honor.  Now I am playing Clan Wolf in a small campaign and apparently need to follow some modicum of rules and self-constraint in regards to weaponry and tactics  :-\

Following up on Arrow IV in general, once the shell is fired it takes a round of flight time unless it is between minimum range and 17 hexes correct?  And if it is between minimum range and 17 hexes, there is a +4 modifier to hit?

Follow up question on tactics; are Clan Wolf dedicated (crazy) enough to fire danger close in regards to artillery?  When I play WOB I gladly launch artillery rounds everywhere (usually from Sniper Artillery Guns).  But that is because the Master must be pleased and the end goal must be achieved, no matter the cost.  When it comes to Clan Wolf, I don't know if their mechwarriors would feel the same way.  Just trying to add a bit of roleplaying into my games.

Greatclub

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 911
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #3 on: 28 February 2019, 22:05:54 »
I like these the attitude of posts:

I think everyone should keep in mind that zell and Clan honor are the modern day equivalents of Axe body spray.  It's all about giving you an advantage in reproduction.

You've not only got competition between commanding officers, but you've got competition within the star itself.  Let's say I'm mechwarrior Joe, and I'd really like to get a Bloodname.  I'm a 2/3 pilot, so I'm basically good enough, but I need to get some glory and get my name out there so that people will take me seriously the next time a Bloodname comes open.  So I need to take calculated risks to show how awesome I am.  I want to win, but I also want to take on odds that show I cut it a little close a couple of times.  From an in-game perspective, I need to take on challenges that really display my 2/3 piloting, things that a lesser pilot really couldn't do.

So let's say I'm assigned a Black Hawk.  If I take the Alternate A configuration, I've got two ER PPCs.  I can fight these Inner Sphere guys at range very effectively.  I can rack up kill after kill while staying at the limits of their ability to respond.  So if I'm up against a Centurion, I can stay out of his autocannon range, let him shoot at me with his LRM-10, and it's "honorable" because he can shoot back (never mind that I have AMS).  I can whittle him down over the course of a couple of minutes and make an easy kill.  It goes in my codex as a victory and it's one more win in a long tally.  Or I can go with the Primary configuration, rush in close, and kill him in like 30 seconds.  It's riskier, but there's a higher reward.  The faster I kill this guy, the faster I can take on another mech in his unit.  Killing one mech over 30 turns of combat (and coming away with 90% of your armor intact) is a lot less impressive than killing a mech in 3 turns, killing the next one 5 turns later, cooling off for two turns, then killing a light mech in one volley, and then chewing up a heavy mech before you have to retreat because your arms got blown off.

Every battle would be a chance for glory.  In modern day terms, it's a chance to impress the ladies.  Most Clan warriors are in their early 20s and are young, dumb, and full of... guns.  Now, you've still got to follow orders, and a mechwarrior who is just a rabid dog whose aggression screws up his superior officer's chances at passing on genetic material won't last long.  You could be an amazingly skilled pilot, but if you are too stupid to realize that your Dasher is not equipped to fight that Battlemaster, well they can just pop another one of you out of the gene vats.  You've got to be able to work with a team and follow a plan.

Headhunter stars, strategic retreats, hanging back and picking people off at range, calling in reinforcements... these are all things you do after cooler heads have realized that this particular battle can't be won by rushing in and humping the enemy into submission.  They won't be happy about it, but everybody understands that you can't "Hulk Smash" every opponent in every fight.  If you play it off right, however, and learn to brag about your cunning plan (and how foolish you made your opponent look), maybe you can make yourself look like a brilliant strategist.  Being so stupid that you fall for every trick in the book is not a good survival trait, and doesn't get your genetic legacy passed on.

As far as the four original invading Clans, they each have different values.  I'd say they work something like this:

Smoke Jaguars value strength and brutality above all else.  A mechwarrior who gets his mech shot out from under him, or a commander who is forced to break his bid, will generally not have it held against him as long as he was aggressive enough.  This is particularly true if they can blame it on Inner Sphere dirty tricks, or an enemy who was "unClan-like".  In other words, they cheated, it's not my fault.  The Jaguars are vicious warriors, highly skilled, and they tend to use big powerful mechs.  You can count on them taking massive risks and completely overextending themselves, but when it works it results in absolutely stunning victories.

The Ghost Bears are almost the polar opposite.  They are much more cautious and methodical.  Being seen as an explosive hot-head is not good for your reproductive chances.  They do things by the book.  Cutting your bid too low or falling for an obvious trap are not excuses for failure.  However, this also means that taking big risks that don't pay off will generally not be forgiven in the same way they would be in other Clans.  As a result they're less likely to be innovative than other Clans, and they miss opportunities to make big gains.  They don't have humiliating defeats like the Jags, but they also don't have those occasions where one star seizes an entire planet.

The Wolves like victory above all else.  Coffee is for closers, history is written by the winners, to the victor go the spoils, etc.  They've got to generally follow the rules of Clan honor or risk being ostracized from the rest of the Clans, but internally they follow a looser approach to honor and zell.  It's more of a guideline than a rule.  With other Clans, they're total rules lawyers.  If you can bend them til they scream, you're still technically following the rules.  Cheating?  It's called winning.

Jade Falcons are in between the Jaguars and the Wolves.  They love the aggression and purity of the Jags, and feel a bit of a kinship with them, but they like the results that the Wolves get.  They aren't as forgiving of stupid mistakes as the Jags, and they are more willing to forgive a retreat in the face of stupid odds.  They don't like bending the rules in the same way the Wolves do, but in the end winning cures all.  They reward creative strategies and lateral thinking, but if you are going to break the rules it's better if you've got a handy quote from The Remembrance or something to show why it's okay.

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8032
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #4 on: 01 March 2019, 00:59:18 »
How do I say this.

Clan Wolf in the Ulric era didn't "fight dirty" per se.

But they did occasionally use Artillery when they were facing a very powerful foe.

Like a full RCT dug in w/ Fortifications.

They usually follow Zell, but if your being a dick then they can follow SLDF protocols & call for grouped fire from a full star, or call in an air strike to soften up a dug in enemy.

Short of Vlad & Conal, I can't say I can remember a Wolf ever being "Stupid", they fight smart & fight hard but the invasion era Wolves/Ulric/Natasha didn't go about slaughtering willy nilly.

As the quotes from massey stated, they are about WINNING, but they don't do it sloppy or brutally, they do it through skill/talent & smart tactics.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Tangoforone

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 148
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #5 on: 01 March 2019, 10:33:57 »
So I could assume that the use of Smoke and FASCAM, while not necessarily banned by Clan Wolf, would be frowned upon in an honorable fight.  However, if I am up against an opponent who is a dishonorable plebeian then the use of special munitions would be more accepting to ensure victory.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17396
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #6 on: 01 March 2019, 13:30:23 »
I think you are more likely to see a wider deployment of weapons against armor and infantry than against mechs- for instance I can see a Wolf commander having his Naga drop mines ahead of or behind a armor formation to keep them from retreating through a gap in woods or taking a bridge.  If you were playing with double blind, using smoke to block LOS as your forces turn 120 degress from their previous heading work.

During the Invasion, another key factor with the Wolves was strategic and tactical speed- which always causes a Clan and specifically a Wolf player problems when the IS wants to fight in the 2x2 phone booth.  Against the IS in the first couple waves, the Wolves should be playing a lot of breakthrough scenarios . . . the IS gets set in their defensive position, dresses their lines and prepares to utilize their fire lanes . . . then the Wolves find the IS force, pick the weak spot to exploit, rush through the IS defensive line smashing what is there and turning to roll up the defensive line from the flank a bit before breaking contact to capture the objective.  Sure they smashed defenders, but they captured what was needed to force capitulation of the defenders- planetary capital/governor, enemy base w/support, enemy dropships, or whatever would make them the winners of the Trial.  The Wolves are the only Clan during the Invasion that practiced headhunting sending specifically equipped Elementals behind lines or dropping them on enemy HQs, they were configured for endurance.

The preference for speed among the Wolves can be found in their 'assault' clusters, which unlike other Clans or the IS are not called that b/c they are filled with assault class mechs and thus based on the weight, but rather its their role- to assault.  Its why they are filled with typical Wolf mechs like the Gargoyle, Timberwolf, Ice Ferret and Adder along with late comers like the Linebacker, Pouncer, Phantom and Naga.  To increase the options, of course you could add the Cauldron Born, Stooping Hawk, and other later 5/8 or faster mechs with the less frequent Summoner, Hellbringer, Mad Dog, Stormcrow, Nova and Kit Fox in the Wolf ranks.  In WCSB you do not find many Executioners, Warhawks or Dire Wolves- and can add the other later (IRL) 4/6 and 3/5 designs to that list.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8032
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #7 on: 01 March 2019, 22:40:39 »
The preference for speed among the Wolves can be found in their 'assault' clusters, which unlike other Clans or the IS are not called that b/c they are filled with assault class mechs and thus based on the weight, but rather its their role- to assault.  Its why they are filled with typical Wolf mechs like the Gargoyle, Timberwolf, Ice Ferret and Adder along with late comers like the Linebacker, Pouncer, Phantom and Naga.  .....  In WCSB you do not find many Executioners, Warhawks or Dire Wolves- and can add the other later (IRL) 4/6 and 3/5 designs to that list.

My only disagreement here is that you don't find those bolded mechs in Assault clusters at all in the WCSB.

They were all being tested in Gamma & Delta which only contained Battle & Striker clusters.

That said, yes, the "typical/generic" Wolf Assault star would be 3 Gargoyles, a Timberwolf, & an IceFerret on point.

Assault Clusters had a very "Heavy Cavalry" feel to them in the CWSB
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17396
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #8 on: 02 March 2019, 17:19:22 »
Oh I agree, but I am a bit more inclined to let that go when I play Invasion battles- like I will allow other 5/8 Clan Omnis such as Crossbows to be chosen.  Its the problem with all the TRO3055 and later mechs back dating introduction since they 'existed' at the time of the Invasion in BTU but were not used.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8032
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #9 on: 02 March 2019, 18:15:12 »
Oh I use the 3055+ mechs if they were around for sure.

I was just saying that 3 of the 4 from the WCSB were only on limited deployment in Gamma/Delta at the time.

MadDogs, Summoners, & Hellbringers should be fairly common, along with X-Bows & Ebon Jags in smaller numbers in Assault Clusters.

Probably very few EbonJags as its a 3048 mech IIRC, but certainly the other 3050 Heavies have a place.

MDs as FireSupport, Sums as Attack, & HBs in HQ stars is my most common use.

The rare X-Bow works well in FS or Attack rolls IMO.

If the Jag is as new as I think I'm remembering it is, then, the # captured by 3050 is probably in single digits, but, tossing 1 in a cluster wouldn't upset me any for sure, especially the A model.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16859
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Clan Munitions for Arrow IV/Artillery
« Reply #10 on: 03 March 2019, 23:57:27 »
So I could assume that the use of Smoke and FASCAM, while not necessarily banned by Clan Wolf, would be frowned upon in an honorable fight.  However, if I am up against an opponent who is a dishonorable plebeian then the use of special munitions would be more accepting to ensure victory.

Artillery is something you wouldn't see in an "honorable fight" to begin with.  Once a Clan breaks out the Arrow IVs it means they're not planning to fight honorably.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

 

Register