Suggested Dark Age Novels

[Lorcan Nagle]

Some comments on the second book.

Still no real mention of regular troops for the RotS. Republic Standing Guard yes, but not the later seen regular line forces (Triarii, etc). Lets face it, if 80+% of the HPGs in the entire Inner Sphere drop out, that makes planets with HPGs ridiculously valuable, especially if they can communicate with any other planets. So why the heck aren't they garrisoning these valuable planets with line troops? Instead you're stuck fighting with garrison troops that have all of 2 `Mechs.

Its enough to make me wonder if the Line units of the Republic were something that were created later on (OOCly that is, obviously FM3085 has them created ICly much earlier), and thus weren't part of the storyline early on. Its either that, or its a really bad plot device to make the universe possible.

Hmm. Maybe I should start posting to the reviews section...

The first book to feature the Republic's regular military is By Temptations and By War.  And they have a lot more BattleMechs than the Standing Guard.

[Maelwys]

Yeah, which is what, book 7? And them having alot more `Mechs is my point. If you've got this wildly valuable planet (ie, one with a working HPG) why not spare some of those units for that planet? I'm not talking about dropping an entire regiment on planet, but how about a company of `Mechs and some infantry and armor units? How about 2 lances from one of the Stone's Brigade units?

I know the various RAF units are later shown to be somewhat paper tigers (and some being thrown to the Capellan border) , but you'd think they'd be able to be redeployed to hold specific planets.

So far in these books the line units seem to be missing completely, not even mentioned. I'm simply wondering if that's because at the time the books were written, the Republic wasn't going to have standing line units, and they later got written in, or if they were always planned, but deliberately not mentioned to make the plot work.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I think the in-universe issue is one of mobilisation.  In the space of 6 months, You've got the Blackout and a chunk of the military defecting/going rogue.  The Republic High Command would have to spend a lot of time figuring out who's still on-station, who's responded to orders and who hasn't.  I'm sure they wanted to send troops to Achenar, but at that point they didn't know who they could use.  By the time fighting had flared on Liao the following year they likely had a better idea of what was going on.

[Maelwys]

That's certainly possible. I'm rather shaky on the exact dates of everything in MWDA. A Call to Arms gives the impression its been going on for a while atleast (This is the second planet Erik Sandoval has been fighting on, same with Star Colonel Torrent), but if its only been six months (man, that's not a lot of time to have figured out that the HPGs aren't coming up, to plan, then to assault multiple planets...) that might explain why there aren't many shifts to cover important planets with line troops.

[Deadborder]

Speaking as a long-time fan who just finished a marathon read of every MWDA novel, I'll go against the tide. I'll say that the badness of the Proving Grounds series, while underniable, has also been massively played up over time. They're bad, yes, but they're far from the worst BT novels I've ever read. To me, they mainly suffer from a) Streeeeeettttcccccchhhhhhhing to fill a trilogy and b) an authour who clearly wasn't familar with the BT universe.

For me, the worst of the series is Patriot's Stand by a long, long way. It's still not the worst BT novel ever (o hai thar Star Lord, how's it going?) but it's pretty damn bad at the best of times. Paper-thin chracterisation, moustache-twirlingly evil villains who are as dumb as a bag of rocks, sickeningly pure and nice and shallow protaginists and again, a writer who doesn't know the BTU from his elbow.

[GhostBear]

I think Stackpole writes a better narrative in first person.

That's exactly it. Of all of Stackpole's written works (beyond BT), his 1st person POV ones are the best and most entertaining. The others are average.

[Maelwys]

And just finished A Call to Arms, and have Ruins of Power sitting next to me.

Almost afraid to open it...

[ANS Kamas P81]

And just finished A Call to Arms, and have Ruins of Power sitting next to me.

Almost afraid to open it...

Repeat after me.  "Klaatu.  Berada.  Nickel."  You'll be fine, trust me!

[Lorcan Nagle]

Just skip the Ruins of Power.  Seriously.  It's not worth it

[Maelwys]

Wish I could. The goal is to read them all.

I'm just guessing from what I remember, but there might have been too many writers covering the same character as well. Which might have lead to alot of the disconnect in the earlier books.

[The Hawk]

So far in these books the line units seem to be missing completely, not even mentioned. I'm simply wondering if that's because at the time the books were written, the Republic wasn't going to have standing line units, and they later got written in, or if they were always planned, but deliberately not mentioned to make the plot work.

I'm not sure they weren't planned in some form, someday, but chances are a lot of thought hadn't been given to the form they were going to take.  I suspect it's a case of the books following the click game, since the first couple expansions didn't have any Republic units apart from the occasional Knight -- much like the first couple books.

For me, the worst of the series is Patriot's Stand by a long, long way. It's still not the worst BT novel ever (o hai thar Star Lord, how's it going?) but it's pretty damn bad at the best of times. Paper-thin chracterisation, moustache-twirlingly evil villains who are as dumb as a bag of rocks, sickeningly pure and nice and shallow protaginists and again, a writer who doesn't know the BTU from his elbow.

I hate to say it, but I actually enjoyed Patriot's Stand.  It had more of the space opera flavor of the early BT novels than most anything we'd seen since the '80s.  Yeah, that means there are white hats that can do no wrong and black hats that can do no right, but that's the nature of the genre.

[Nav_Alpha]

Wish I could. The goal is to read them all.

I'm just guessing from what I remember, but there might have been too many writers covering the same character as well. Which might have lead to alot of the disconnect in the earlier books.

Ruins of Power is not all that bad. Don't get me wrong: the writing is awful. But the plot itself is pretty solid.
Greedy Legate and nobles decide they can run things better and plan a coupe. I imagine similar things were going on all over the republic.
Also, the Lord Gov'nor's special envoy or whatever is an interesting concept. It's something I'd be keen to expand in an RP setting.
I might even bust something similar out in my ongoing Dark Age campaign

[SteelRaven]

Ruins of Power is not all that bad. Don't get me wrong: the writing is awful. But the plot itself is pretty solid.
Greedy Legate and nobles decide they can run things better and plan a coupe. I imagine similar things were going on all over the republic.
Also, the Lord Gov'nor's special envoy or whatever is an interesting concept. It's something I'd be keen to expand in an RP setting.
I might even bust something similar out in my ongoing Dark Age campaign

While I would never want anyone else to read Ruins of Power (I mean it, it was that bad for me) A Silence in the Heavens and Ruins It did inspire some good campaigns. I guess even bad novels like  Starlord have a place, they give us the tools to make a better story for the tabletop :D

[DarkSpade]

After slogging (that's a word right?) my way through the first 2 Delrio books I was dreading reading the 3rd, but I didn't want to miss out on anything important.   Looking at the book was a lot like staring down the toilet when you really need to throw up.  You really don't want to do it, but you know you have to eventually.   Luckily I was saved by this summery and book remains on my bookshelf unread.

I did NOT write this.  I copied it from the old MWrealms forums.

Contains spoilers!

I think we're being too kind to the book.

Mauler's Happy Fun Summary

Campbell: I am very angry! Despite the fact that my planet is in ruins, I'm going to take the fight to the Wolves!

Will's mother: Please don't go!

Will: Don't worry, nothing will hurt me. I'm a Mary Sue character!
*flashes perfect teeth*

*on Tybalt, pre Spirit Cat takeover*

Bannson: I'm going to use my mercenary muscle to direct things and discredit Crow. I'm so clever it drives me nuts.

*back in space*

SW Star Colonel: Anastasia, bad news. They want to charge us MONEY for gas!

Anastasia: Bah. Commence a needlessly-reckless and dangerous plan to avoid paying for it!

*one space station fight later*

SW Star Colonel: You are a stupid leader!

Anastasia: Oh yeah?!

*they fight. Anastasia gets topless and kills the colonel with her sash*

Anastasia: Who's next?

Other Steel Wolf: I'm bringing a knife to the fight! *cuts Kerensky. Dies anyway*

Anastasia: I'm the uber-bi...*passes out from wounds and blood loss*

Ian Murchinson: God ####it. Not again.

*back on Terra*

Crow: Northwind has fallen to the SW. And I did come here to report, not because I ran away like a little Steiner girl.

Redburn: Okay.

Campbell: CROW YOU TRAITOR!

Redburn: Sorry, Crow was first, so you're wrong. Feel free to camp your entire military in Russia.

*back in Russia*

Will: No fair! I'm the Mary Sue character!
*flashes perfect teeth, which get covered with mud splashed by a Shandra*

*back in Geneva*

Campbell: I can't believe Redburn doesn't believe me!

Jonah Levin: No problem. PLOT DEVICE!

Plot devi-er, Horn: Whatcha need?

Levin: I need you to find evidence that Crow is a scummy human being.

Horn: Okay.

*five minutes later*

Horn: Here you go. A very incriminating piece of evidence that just happened to be left behind.

Levin: Funny how that works. Give it to the National Enquirer!

Bannson: Heh heh heh...

Levin: How did you get here?

Bannson: ####ed if I know.

*back in the Bunker of Solitude*

Crow: Poopy!

*back in space*

Anastasia: What happened?

Ian: You did something exceedingly stupid and delayed your entire plan. That, and you're still too injured to fight.

Anastasia: Full speed ahead!

*SW forces continue, stopping for Chinese food*

Ian: Hrm, mine says "your friend's stupidity will come back to haunt them later through a stupid copout by the author."

Anastasia: Wonder what that means?

*they reach Terra*

Anastasia: Blah blah blah Terra blah blah blah birthright blah blah blah...

Campbell: I intend to stop you!

Crow: No, I do!

Campbell: You cheat!

*back in Geneva, Redburn listens to the conversation*

Redburn: Wow, Crow is a scumbag. Maybe I should have my forces secure him.
*thinks*
Naaah.

*back in Russia*

Anastasia: Shut up you idiots. Fight it out for leadership.

*Crow and Campbell square off*

Crow: I'm so cool it hurts.

Campbell: Oh no! My 'mech overheats by walking! I need a way to trap Crow! Wait, I know!

*Plot Missiles (c) fly, creating a crater in the mud Crow can't escape from*

Crow: Poopie.

Campbell: DIEEEARTETGHGIHGIHGHGHGHGHGHGHGXDEELOLWTFBBQ!

*kills Crow*

Campbell: I win!

Bishop: Ma'am, the Steel Wolves are attacking, and they badly outnumber us!

Campbell: But we have Republic forces on our side, right?

Bishop: No. Levin's too busy playing with a dreidel in his Atlas.

*meanwhile, in the Atlas "Solitude"*

Levin: Why do I have the feeling I'm missing something important? Oh well. "Dreidel dreidel dreidel, I made you out of clay..."

*back at the battle*

Anastasia: *charging Campbell and Bishop* I WILL KILL YOUR FACES!

SW com dude: we have large forces on our rear. Merc forces.

Anastasia: Okay. *runs back*

One-Eyed Jack: *faces down two Forestrymech MODs, pulling out his prog knife and raising his AT field* Time to die, tonkas!

Forestrymech pilot: Wait a second! That's Evangelion, not Mechwarrior!

Jack: Like Delrio knows an Eva from a Enforcer.
*uses Ninja Skill to disable both 'mechs*
Baka Gaijin![/b]

Anastasia: *joined by Kriya Wolf* You die Jack!

Bishop: Never fear Jack, I'm here to save you!
*magically disables Kriya with one shot*

Kriya: poopie!

Kerensky: Oh dear, I ripped open my stomach again. Probably should run away.

*does so, reaching SW dropships*

Ian: Oh no! Anastasia!

Anastasia: Ian...I am...your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roomate...*passes out*

*back at the Highlander lines*

Tactical Officer: Commander, despite the fact the Steel Wolves still badly outnumber us, they're pulling back because they can't fight their way out of a paper bag without the help of Kerensky!

Campbell: Can you figure out why?

TO: We're detecting heavy concentrations of "laziness," "plot contradiction," and "copout" commander.

Campbell: Oh, works for me.

*Steel Wolves, like their namesake, retreat like little Capellan schoolgirls*

Campbell: My work here is done. Back to the batcave!

*Da na na na na na na...*

[Maelwys]

I finished The Ruins of Power kind of quickly. Not really sure why. It wasn't too bad, but it had some definite issues. A bit spoilerish, so you've been warned.

I'll admit this one is purely personal and probably not an issue to me, and exacerbated by reading the two novels so close together, but...Protagonist of the last book...Raul Ortega. Protagonist of this book, Austin Ortega. No relation (as far as I know), but it just seems odd to me. I know its perfectly plausible for them both to have the same last name, but at this point in the series, with an overall look at a new setting/era, things like that come across as something, rather than a coincidence.

The plot seemed plausible, though at times it made me want to smack around the main characters. Some of the character development seems rather hurried, with one of the characters having an abrupt change of heart that doesn't seem to have any reasons behind it.  The less said about the fight scenes the better :)

[Maelwys]

So I'm reading "A Silence in the Heavens" and I can't help but think "What happened to the Cosara Weaponries MechWorks?"

Halfway through the book and no mention of it,and refits are being done at a IndustrialMech company. Little tidbits like this could've made the books a bit better. Kind of like "Gee, is there any hope of a lance or company from the Republic's standing army showing with the Paladin?"

[roosterboy]

So I'm reading "A Silence in the Heavens" and I can't help but think "What happened to the Cosara Weaponries MechWorks?"

Probably converted to making IndustrialMechs like a lot of BattleMech manufactures were during Stone's peace.

[Maelwys]

It could be, though there is a scene in an Industrial Mech manufacturer, and it isn't Cosara (or it changed names). Its little details like these that could've tied in the MWDA novels to the older universe, and given the BT player a sense of continuity instead of the "Holy cow, is anything the same?" feeling that these earlier books provided.

[SteelRaven]

Why everyone had the general impression that the writer wasn't familiar with the BTU other than the WK cliff notes.

[GRUD]

I remember reading one of the first MWDA books, and during a fight where the "Hero" was piloting a Hatchetman and they hadn't even fired a weapon yet but were worrying about overheating, I was thinking to myself "click, click, click" as they dissipated heat.  :D


Also, one of them (I think it's Blood Avatar?) read more like a CSI novel than a BT novel.  #P

[Maelwys]

The Battles do definitely have that Clicktech mechanics feel, but that's not entirely surprising.

And yeah, Delrio was a new author, but I think that's sort of a cop out. Wizkids should've provided data like that. Presumably they provided some of the data on Northwind, so why not that?

I'd think if you're banking on bringing in an established fanbase, you really need the tie ins.

[Nav_Alpha]

Things change in 60 odd years. They might have changed hands, changed names after an embarrassing law suit, etc.
That said, have a look through the Dark Age Worlds doc on the classic battletech downloads section - good run down of what has happened to the republic planet since the Jihad. It lists what happens to a lot of the old mech plants, etc

[Deadborder]

In all fairness, Delrio was far from the first "didn't know the universe or the mechanics" author in the history of the franchise. There's a number of FASA-era novels that easily fall into that category as well, with Star Lord and Far Country being but the first two that come to my mind.

Again, people pick on the DA novels but seem to conveniently overlook the CBT ones.

[DarkSpade]

For those that don't know, Delrio is a fake name.  It's actually two authors.  I think two people trying to right 3 books together could easily explain some of the books' problems.

[Deadborder]

For those that don't know, Delrio is a fake name.  It's actually two authors.  I think two people trying to right 3 books together could easily explain some of the books' problems.

I didn't know that, and it explains an awful, awful lot.

[SteelRaven]

The name Martin Delrio pops up as a co-writer on a few different novels
http://www.bookfinder.com/author/martin-delrio/
Can't say that's it is the same person(s) but I would find it strange choice of alias considering your giving credit to another established writer.   

[cavingjan]

I remember reading one of the first MWDA books, and during a fight where the "Hero" was piloting a Hatchetman and they hadn't even fired a weapon yet but were worrying about overheating, I was thinking to myself "click, click, click" as they dissipated heat.  :D

We have cases of that in the classic novels. Game rules are not always the same as what is in the novels.

[roosterboy]

The name Martin Delrio pops up as a co-writer on a few different novels
http://www.bookfinder.com/author/martin-delrio/
Can't say that's it is the same person(s) but I would find it strange choice of alias considering your giving credit to another established writer.   

Same Martin Delrio. Debra Doyle and James MacDonald have written a number of books together under that pseudonym.

[SteelRaven]

Same Martin Delrio. Debra Doyle and James MacDonald have written a number of books together under that pseudonym.

Learn something new every day.
Thanks Rooster', I'm starting to think we should just have a 'Ask Roosterboy' thread for all those odd questions that Wiki and Google fail to answer.     

[Maelwys]

So I finished "A Silence in the Heavens." Quick read. It didn't seem too bad until it got to the fighting. That was a little too clickish for me. The less said about the lightning strike the better.

It does raise a few questions though. What exactly are the Highlanders in MWDA? Are they simply Republic Militia? Are they Republic line troops? Troubleshooters? From this book I'm figuring militia, but the next book makes mention of Highlander troops fighting on other planets, and have been for a while. So are they line troops?

And that brings up another point. Earlier on we had Raul Ortega and Austin Ortega. Then we had Tara at Tara. Now we've got Tara with Tara at Tara? Really?