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Author Topic: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs  (Read 3185 times)

Ferrosol

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Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« on: 25 August 2012, 13:18:28 »
I have been running a couple of capellan themed battles in the jihad era and as part of that I have been trying to use Thunder LRMs on my missile armed mechs but I am not entirely clear on the best way to use them. A couple of things I have tried is using them for is to control enemy movement by dropping them in front of an enemy advance to force them to go around or by dropping them in heavy woods/behind hills to stop them but I would appreciate more suggestions if anyone has anything to suggest?

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #1 on: 25 August 2012, 13:25:23 »
I liked them with Thunder(the mech), Yu Huangs and Ti Tsangs.  Drop them behind enemy mechs, to keep them from retreating away from the pulse lasers, big autocannons, and physical attacks.  Funneling, like you mentioned, works well too, esp if you have some battle armour or PBI harass them.  One of the strengths of the CCAF is all those small LRM launchers on Vindicators, which are everywhere.  You won't miss the damage from some of them using alternate munitions. 

glitterboy2098

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #2 on: 25 August 2012, 18:36:37 »
i remember playing in one of the next to last Martial olympiads, and facing an IS playing guy who used thunder munitions. they hadn't been banned at that point, though only IS players had them (sometihng that i, as a clan player, really hated).
we wound up facing off in a capture the flag battle on two urban mapsheets (the 'harbor' ones from one of the mapsets).

the way the maps were set up, there were two choke points for reaching the other side. since the other guys had a clearer LOS to those choke points, he has his archer throw down a pair of 20pt thunder fields in each choke point, preventing me from getting across. i had nothing that could clear the fields, and my mechs (a guass mad dog and a fire moth) didn't have the armor to just walk across.

that action denied me the tactical mobility my force needed. we wound up with a tie, because he wasn't able to cross either (not because of the mines, but because ever time he showed his forces into LOS, they got hammered by my guass mad dog or my Oro tank..), though had my firemoth not been blown up, i might have won because my elementals found his flag, but were too slow to get it back across the battlefield for the victory.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #3 on: 25 August 2012, 22:46:59 »
that action denied me the tactical mobility my force needed.
It's a shame they don't have more JJ equipped versions of the classics.  Sure, there's the Summoner, but.  The best answer to minefields is jump jets, after all.

Nightsong

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #4 on: 25 August 2012, 23:58:47 »
Unless you're using Thunder-Actives, then it's a whole new can of worms. Probably a good thing they're advanced tech.

A. Lurker

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #5 on: 26 August 2012, 03:57:48 »
Unless you're using Thunder-Actives, then it's a whole new can of worms. Probably a good thing they're advanced tech.

Well, all minefields are "advanced" tech, so there's no big difference between plain Thunder and Thunder-Active in that regard.

Mind, "active" minefields catch only jumpers. Anything moving along on the ground or airborne by other means is safe (TacOps p. 210).

Moonsword

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #6 on: 26 August 2012, 10:24:35 »
Well, all minefields are "advanced" tech, so there's no big difference between plain Thunder and Thunder-Active in that regard.

Advanced rules and advanced technology are two different concepts.  Basic HE tube artillery and standard minefields are less advanced technologically than an AS7-D Atlas.  However, they're advanced rules and that Atlas is in the intro box.

Whether there's a difference from a manufacturing standpoint for Thunder and Thunder-Active bombs and artillery rounds is a question I don't have an answer to - Thunder-Active may be TR D just because the mines it's scattering are TR D.

A. Lurker

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #7 on: 26 August 2012, 11:02:01 »
Advanced rules and advanced technology are two different concepts.  Basic HE tube artillery and standard minefields are less advanced technologically than an AS7-D Atlas.  However, they're advanced rules and that Atlas is in the intro box.

Sure -- but in that sense we just don't have much of a measuring stick for what is and isn't "advanced" technology in the game. Up to a point the introduction year may serve, but then MRMs and "modern" (non-"prototype") rocket launchers are pretty recent developments in-universe, too...

Moonsword

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #8 on: 26 August 2012, 12:52:04 »
Except we do have one, one I mentioned in the part of my post you didn't quote: Tech Ratings.  MRMs are a recent development but not a very sophisticated one in 3060s terms at TR C.

They're not an especially granular one, however, and there are eccentricities to it, I admit.

Wrangler

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #9 on: 26 August 2012, 14:14:28 »
My group found the augemented LRM Thunder rounds were nearly broken, units using them could dup this stuff in front of oncoming units, sometimes putting more than one field in same hex area and littlely bring the game to hault in some cases.

If your fighting a tourney with advances rules, where your the defender trying pin some units down.  These are things to be using.
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A. Lurker

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #10 on: 26 August 2012, 14:26:36 »
Except we do have one, one I mentioned in the part of my post you didn't quote: Tech Ratings.  MRMs are a recent development but not a very sophisticated one in 3060s terms at TR C.

They're not an especially granular one, however, and there are eccentricities to it, I admit.

I'll say it's "not especially granular". It's not strictly true that everything intro-tech gets a rating of C (sometimes D), everything more advanced of Inner Sphere manufacture gets an E, and everything Clan just has a big universal F slapped onto it -- but it's close enough to a first and possibly even second approximation. Essentially, it's really not all that distinct from just "rules level plus tech base" all over again.

My group found the augemented LRM Thunder rounds were nearly broken, units using them could dup this stuff in front of oncoming units, sometimes putting more than one field in same hex area and littlely bring the game to hault in some cases.

If your fighting a tourney with advances rules, where your the defender trying pin some units down.  These are things to be using.

As of the latest set of TacOps errata, Thunder ammo other than the "standard" type once again gets only half the number of shots per ton. That helps a little, although I'm not sure if it doesn't nerf the types that aren't specifically Thunder-Augmented a bit much.

Jim1701

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #11 on: 27 August 2012, 11:37:33 »
Except we do have one, one I mentioned in the part of my post you didn't quote: Tech Ratings.  MRMs are a recent development but not a very sophisticated one in 3060s terms at TR C.

They're not an especially granular one, however, and there are eccentricities to it, I admit.

You're the first person I've ever met that quibbled about this terminology.  Technically you are right of course but BT has never been about precise terminology.  Just check the rules forums.  In most groups I've been in over the years the term has meant both things and it was the context that made the difference. 

I think in this case the context was pretty clear in that "advanced tech" was referring to tech in the advanced rules. 

Fireangel

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #12 on: 27 August 2012, 11:56:46 »
Thunder LRMs can be used in two distinct ways: area denial (pour some dense and deep fields around choke points) or softening up (lay a 5-10 point field in front of a non-jumper; They'll likely just take light leg damage, which they will likely not fear, but will scour away armour that they may well need later. After a few examples, you can easily add 3-6 MP to the movement of any opposing unit you choose (indirect fire is a good thing) as they divert around the minefield.

I have actually used this tactic in combination with standard (hidden) minefields; after a couple of 'mechs' legs got damaged enough that a single SRM penetrated, all enemy units started avoiding the spotty thunder fields I'd placed... until I "encouraged" a Stalker to divert straight into one of my regular minefields. After that, my opponent was so scared that he practically gave me control of the battlefield due to his overcautiousness.


Caveat: remember to keep track of where you put the stupid minefields; it's embarassing to blow your own 'mech's leg off with your own mines. [metalhealth]

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #13 on: 03 September 2012, 23:15:24 »
the way the maps were set up, there were two choke points for reaching the other side. since the other guys had a clearer LOS to those choke points, he has his archer throw down a pair of 20pt thunder fields in each choke point, preventing me from getting across. i had nothing that could clear the fields, and my mechs (a guass mad dog and a fire moth) didn't have the armor to just walk across.

IIRC there is a roll to see if you set off the mines for gambling types.  Also where the choke points bridges?  Otherwise you could rely on your piloting skill and just go through the buildings.

Fallen_Raven

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #14 on: 03 September 2012, 23:38:22 »
An interesting option is to put minefields in trees and other covering terrain. Then your opponent has to chose between taking damage from the mines or staying out in the open.

If you're feeling a bit cruel (and you should be if you're playing the Capellans) you can drop mines on the roofs of buildings to prevent jumping scout 'mechs from getting the high ground.
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Beazle

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #15 on: 06 September 2012, 03:07:18 »
I love Thunders when i am expecting to face fast moving mechs.

Mine fields don't care how many movement modifiers they stack :)

I'll often lay practically on top of myself, and then back up while firing. 

To really use them effectively though, you have to be playing on a fairly large map  The more time you have to lay down minefields before your opponent gets close, the more effective Thunders are.

DoctorMonkey

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Re: Talk to me about Thunder LRMs
« Reply #16 on: 06 September 2012, 05:26:20 »
Minefields and artillery are two quandaries for BattleTech as on the one hand they are unbalanced and unsportsmanlike when used properly but on the other hand, they are realistic as people actually fighting prefer to all come home than fight fairly... the main solution is to have both sides "cheat" (ie use artillery and minefields) but Clan players chose to play as Clanners who seem stuck in a permanent angry adolescence
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