Just got the box set... some questions

[-Ice]

For some reason, the postman decided to deliver my package in the afternoon, despite the past FIVE deliveries occurring between 8-9am!

Anyway, I got the box set today, and I open it all excited... and turned to disappointment.  The minis are, well, not quite what I expected.  Not only do they look sloppy, it seems like they've all been on a diet!!  Yep, even the Atlas didn't look too happy.  The Zeus, Awesome, Catapult, Jagermech and others are waaayyyy too skinny!  The Cicada is as tall as the Hunchback....

Now for full disclosure, this is my first time seeing BattleTech minis, but comparing them to the Thor mini, well, if the Thor mini RAWKS!  Can someone please confirm if I got a bad batch, or are the plastic minis supposed to look this way?  I hope the metal minis from IWM look more like the premium Thor mini?

Speaking of the premium minis, my Thor came assembled, but the Loki is in parts.... is this how it should come or has someone been messing with my box set before I got it?  The assembler was a little too liberal with the plastic glue as well...

Are there other premium plastic minis available?

At this point, I don't feel too happy with my box set purchase as now I'm thinking of buying the plastic minis but in metal form...

[Paul]

Can someone please confirm if I got a bad batch, or are the plastic minis supposed to look this way?

Sounds like you got the plastic minis that are typical of the BT box set.

I hope the metal minis from IWM look more like the premium Thor mini?

They generally do, yes.

Speaking of the premium minis, my Thor came assembled, but the Loki is in parts.... is this how it should come or has someone been messing with my box set before I got it?

Nope, that's how they're supposed to come.

Are there other premium plastic minis available?

Not currently. But the rumored Clan Box Set apparently has all its miniatures of the same quality as the Thor and Loki in the Box set. There is no street date for that box.

At this point, I don't feel too happy with my box set purchase as now I'm thinking of buying the plastic minis but in metal form...

Well, I'm not sure what to recommend there. The metal minis are usually of great quality. There's a mini's forum further down the list of boards where you can see a bunch. Also www.camospecs.com is largely made up of the metal ones.

I'm definitely sorry to hear you're less than happy with the Box Set.

Paul

[-Ice]

So what happened?  Was someone drunk when they made the mold for these minis?  The rest of the box set is perfect, very nice quality, then we get these plastic minis:



Notice the Grasshopper's base being significantly thinner than the rest.  And the Catapult... sigh...



Also a thin base on that second-from-left mech on the back row.

And looking at the box minis vs. the premium mini:




Can anyone give an insight as to why the box minis are so poor?

[sundayrobot]

Don't take the box set miniatures as an issue, but a challenge  O0

See what you can do with these figures :

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,15621.0.html

And I'm far from being the best painter or sculptor on earth  ;D

What I like also, is all the new concept arts Mechwarrior online and tactics gave us recently : you can also use them to improve your basic figures, with that nice modern look.

Take these figures for what they are, a way to directly make a step into battletech hobby ;)

[whiteshadowzo]

I was put off by the skinny anorexic minis at first but figured it was just to keep costs low and after seeing pictures on camospecs knew the iwm minis were going to look fantastic. Some of them have scaling issues, being too big or small but they are all much more detailed and generally more filled out than what is in the box set. So don't despair. And happy gaming

[Lorcan Nagle]

As I understand it, the molds for the "ready to play" minis in the box set were based on molds either IWM or Ral Partha did to make metal 'starter' lance packs.  In each case, the starter pack molds were taken from existing minis rather than their master molds.  Tis was done to make them all single cast pieces (or as close to as possible)

Now, when you make a mold for a miniature it shrinks a little.  So the starter lance pack minis are a little bit smaller than the main metal ones.  And so when they made plastic molds from the starter pack molds, they shrunk again.  And as a result, the plastics in the intro box are lacking when compared to the metal ones.

[Fallen_Raven]

First off, your Grasshopper looks fine. Its the Banshee that looks sick.

Secondly, the box set is supposed to be a cheap way to get into the game. Catalyst didn't want to charge newplayer$300 dollars for an intro product. And I don't want to pay for shipping for 24 pewter minis!

Third, it seems that your set was made of higher quality plastic than mine was. Does anyone know if they changed materials in the newrun?

[-Ice]

sundayrobot, I am amazed at what you have done with your minis, but I neither have the skill nor time to do that work.  The challenge is simply too much... the box minis make me disappointed especially as I got two minis that are amazingly detailed WITHOUT me having to do any work!

whiteshadowzo, I understand that costs have to be kept low, but surely these minis are very haphazardly done!  The base size and thickness alone are not consistent, the lines on the mechs are of varying sharpness... might as well have shipped with full-color cardboard counters that scream "QUALITY!!" plus the premium mech minis than to put these box minis in that contrast greatly with the rest of the product.

Lorcan, that single-cast idea makes sense, but surely someone must've quality-controlled these minis?

Guy1: Right, we are making this product to introduce new guys to our hobby... but we need to keep the costs low...
Guy2: Let's give them this half-assed attempts at mech minis since we can't be bothered to make proper plastic casts for these mechs
Guy1: That's a great idea!  Let's just put in some shiny books as well with all the pretty pictures and bright colors...
Guy2: Yeah, and let's throw in these awesome plastic minis as well!
Guy1: Hmmm... nice reading material, a couple of kick-ass Clan minis, and these warped plastic minis... Brilliant!!  This will sell like hotcakes!

Fallen_Raven, I'm not sure if I should be thankful that you're saying my minis look better than yours, or be scared that the older run was even worse!

[Paul]

I recognize your frustration: we all would like even better minis.
But I'm not entirely sure what kind of response you're looking for in this thread? They are what they are, hopefully the next box will have better ones.

Paul

[-Ice]

Yeah, sorry about that.  I posted hoping I just probably got a bad batch, but now people have confirmed that what I got is "normal."  I was disappointed with the minis and hoped someone made a mistake somewhere, but now that there is no mistake, well, to be honest I don't know what to do.

[Weirdo]

My best advice would be to read threads in the minis forums dealing with the plastics. They can give tips and techniques so that even beginners can make them look really good. Trust me, it's not hard at all.

[Paul]

Yeah, sorry about that.  I posted hoping I just probably got a bad batch, but now people have confirmed that what I got is "normal."  I was disappointed with the minis and hoped someone made a mistake somewhere, but now that there is no mistake, well, to be honest I don't know what to do.

:/

Wish I could say something that'll make it a better experience. I'm genuinely sorry that you're disappointed. I realize that doesn't count for a lot.

[Scotty]

The intro minis are dirt cheap, so you get what you pay for.  If anything, you get significantly more than what you pay for, all things considered.

The box set is, what, $40?  For that you get 26 minis, two maps to play on, the quick-start rules, an in-universe primer, and a little booklet with tips and tricks for painting your minis.

Even leaving aside everything else, 26 minis at $40 is ~$1.54 per mini.  The cheapest mini I can find on IWM are the Jenner and Javelin, for $7.60 each.  Those are the absolute cheapest 'Mechs available on IWM.  Most minis are upwards of $10.  Getting actual minis in the box is a bonus that Catalyst doesn't really have to extend.  I know that older (much older) versions of the box set came with cardstock counters and tokens, instead of minis at all.

This isn't a "suck it up" post, mind you.  It's just that the quality or quantity could easily be a lot worse.

[Sartris]

The box is $60 now with the HQ maps. I'm guessing the plastic clan mechs and inflation since the original Catalyst box release factor in there as well. 

As Lorcan mentioned, the molds for the plastics were based on the older metal starter sets (which are still available on IWM). Each of them comes with 4 of the box set mechs and is priced at $41.95 (except the recon set at $37.95). Going this way would run you about $250 plus shipping.

For reference, you can search on IWM for the lance packs

Assault Lance (Atlas, Cyclops, Hunchback, Vindicator)
Command Lance (Awesome, Dragon, Enforcer, Panther)
Fire Lance (Banshee, Catapult, Dervish, Trebuchet)
Recon Lance (Clint, Assassin, Cicada, Spider)
Striker Lance (Grasshopper, Hermes II, Jenner, Commando)
Support Lance (Zeus, Jagermech, Quickdraw, Whitworth)

[-Ice]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I'm starting to feel better regarding my purchase, with regards to the maps and other goodies...

My best advice would be to read threads in the minis forums dealing with the plastics. They can give tips and techniques so that even beginners can make them look really good. Trust me, it's not hard at all.

Well yeah, I can do some work on it and it'll probably look stunning.  Probably.  While the premium mechs are just sitting there laughing at the distorted box minis.  I think I saw the Loki dance a jig earlier, teasing the Catapult.  Point is, I didn't have to do anything to make the premium mechs look really  REALLY good.  I guess that's why they're called "premium" mechs eh?

Wish I could say something that'll make it a better experience. I'm genuinely sorry that you're disappointed. I realize that doesn't count for a lot.

Meh.  I guess my "big boy" phase kicked in after a while.  It's still "less" than what I expected --- I guess that's what I get from ordering the Mouse Guard intro box and the Pathfinder beginner box and Bestiary pawns.  But after looking at what else is in the box, I decide to open the maps to see what I get... and I am truly impressed with the quality of these maps.  Are the other map sets made like these as well (on cardboard/cardstock/whatever) or are they simply thin, flat paper maps?  Love the texture of it too... I wonder how resistant it is to spillage/liquid damage or rubbing?  Playing with my boys aged 9 and 3 you see...  O0

Anyway, while there's nothing you can say to make the plastic minis any better, I am glad that you have taken the time to respond to my posts anyway and in the manner that you have done.  I guess if I had received a hostile response, I would've simply returned my purchase, got my refund, and walked away from BattleTech.  For now, I am willing to give it a chance, perhaps buy some metal minis and see the quality of THOSE molds, and see if I can get/deliver enough fun to distract/ignore all the wonkyness of the box mechs.  So for your time and patience, thank you Paul, and thank you to the other posters as well.   8)

Sartris and Scotty, thanks for your posts.  I do agree that with metal minis, it would be significantly more expensive... I'm just complaining/moaning/whining about the "starved mechs" that are the box minis.  Oh well.  I think I am over it now, a bit.  And I just might take sundayrobot's advice and "work" on these mechs.  I assume the plastic bases that came with the premium minis are "standard bases" that is used with the metal minis?  At the very least I can probably  re-mount these box mechs on "proper" bases.

[Scotty]

I picked up a couple of the Sword and Dragon metal mini packs at my FLGS about a year ago, and a couple of them were pretty much identical to the box set minis, except a hundred times higher quality.  I have two metal Dragons (the Dragon pack had an extra one instead of a Hatamoto), a metal Enforcer, a metal Hunchback, and a metal Jenner for overlap between the packs and the box set, and the quality difference is just unreal.  The Enforcers you can tell are even from the same mold (or, from the same parent mold) and the quality (and ease of working with) is just head and shoulders above the rest.

Even if they're expensive, the metal minis are worth it.  Really, the box set minis are there to give you something to play with immediately.  If you find you like the game, they're like the appetizer that gets you ready for a high quality meal at a nice restaurant.

[Weirdo]

Well yeah, I can do some work on it and it'll probably look stunning.

If you need any help, feel free to ask me any questions, or any of the excellent painters in the minis forum!

[Samhain21]

If you find you like the game, they're like the appetizer that gets you ready for a high quality meal at a nice restaurant.

The Best part about the game is finding an awesome in-Universe unit, and painting your Mechs up in their colors...Standing proudly over your Company of 6th Lyran Regulars, hands on hips, and gloating over your babies...  ^-^ ... And then getting horrible rolls, and watching your babies "die"...  :'( BattleTech, she is a tough mistress...

And if I prefer modelling/painting them, does that mean I like playing with my food... To make it look more pretty?...

[Jayof9s]

might as well have shipped with full-color cardboard counters that scream "QUALITY!!" plus the premium mech minis than to put these box minis in that contrast greatly with the rest of the product.

My box set from the mid 90s did come with the full-color cardboard counters instead of minis. While they're very well done, I can safely say minis would have been more interesting. But they worked either way.  ;)

[Neko_Bijin]

When the box was $40, the quality of the miniatures seemed very reasonable.  Now that the box is $60, the quality of the miniatures seems much less reasonable, despite the improved maps and the addition of two Clan figures.

I agree that first-rate talent can make good figures out of them, but I've gone over to metal figures because they admit my middling talent well.

[worktroll]

Playing with my boys aged 9 and 3 you see...  O0

As someone who went through that stage some decades ago ;), this is one area where the plastic minis shine. You can easily let your boys play with them, secure in the knowledge they can't stab or choke themselves on broken-off parts the same way metal minis could. You can also let them do the painting, and keep them as "theirs", without the same fears and pangs you'd get with a metal mini at those ages.

Couple of general points:
- yes, the current run uses a slightly harder, darker and shinier plastic.
- it was mentioned, I believe at Origins and GenCon, that they're looking at getting new moulds made for future mini runs.

Cheers,

W.

[DarkSpade]

My box set had pictures of mechs on cardboard propped up with plastic stands.  It also came with paper maps that were the same and their backs were just blank hexes.   :-\

[Psycho]

For now, I am willing to give it a chance, perhaps buy some metal minis and see the quality of THOSE molds, and see if I can get/deliver enough fun to distract/ignore all the wonkyness of the box mechs. 

Casting quality can vary, though it is usually reasonable. You're far more likely to be dealing with mold lines than emaciated minis. The best advice I can offer is to check out what the minis look like online, ask around a bit (some are substantially more difficult to assemble than others) so you know what to expect, then order. The translation from 2-D drawing to 3-D mini can change your perception of the piece, so you may find yourself not as pleased with the mini of an illustration you loved, or loving a mini of a 'Mech you didn't think much of on paper.

[Charlie Tango]

- it was mentioned, I believe at Origins and GenCon, that they're looking at getting new moulds made for future mini runs.

That was confirmed by the Line Developer in the last BattleChat.

(-Ice, BattleChats are where the Line Developer for Battletech holds an IRC chat open to any and all members of the Battletech community and answers questions asked by the fans in the chat..  A transcript of the most recent one can be found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,22662.msg506002.html#msg506002)

[sundayrobot]

Not speaking of my own minis, but searching on google for plastic minis examples, you can see that people obtain pretty decent tabletop painting miniatures with the box set with (I think) a fast painting job :

http://gloryandcoin.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/painted-battletech/

For tabletop gaming, I think it's not bad at all  O0

[SteelRaven]

Keep two things in mind Ice,
1.) Many of the past BT boxes came with just cardboard counter, the plastic minis in the 3rd edition and City Tech had roughly the same quality
2.) GW starter box goes for $100. Not sure about you, but I'm already broke. I'll take what I can get for $60 and use the difference for metal Battlemech minis.

 

[-Ice]

At this point, I am now looking forward to buying the metal minis... they are comparable to the premium plastic minis, as Paul said, but anyone have any pics of a un-painted metal mini?  An unpainted Thor or Loki would be best for comparison with the plastic ones.

Weirdo, I probably won't be painting these minis for a good time yet.  Little knowledge of the BT world or gameplay means I don't know which color scheme I would be wanting, and I don't suspect that the box minis will look good if I have to repaint them a couple of times.

Jayof9s, I would think "premium" cardboard counters would've been more in-line with the rest of the quality stuff in the box rather than the starved-and-warped plastic minis.  But anyway, that point is moot now....

I agree that first-rate talent can make good figures out of them, but I've gone over to metal figures because they admit my middling talent well.

+1.  I'm not good with green stuff and barely passable with my painting skills (at least to my standards), so anything that would require less skill on my part is very much appreciated.  The less it relies on my talents, the better.

As someone who went through that stage some decades ago ;), this is one area where the plastic minis shine. You can easily let your boys play with them, secure in the knowledge they can't stab or choke themselves on broken-off parts the same way metal minis could. You can also let them do the painting, and keep them as "theirs", without the same fears and pangs you'd get with a metal mini at those ages.

Excellent idea worktroll!  I guess that's a good way of making use of them... they'll be "kiddie minis" while Daddy gets some "Daddy minis"... and a better excuse to start getting Clan mech minis for the "opposition"

[cavingjan]

The plastic ones also make good beater minis for ad hoc games on trips where you can pack and protect minis as well as you'd like. They aren't bad if you use army painter to prime\base coat them in on color, detail with gun metal, and then use a dip. Quick and fairly good looking and with not much time invested for 24 minis.

[Swiftfire]

I remember my first box set of Battletech minis from the 80s. The minis then weren't much different than now.

[Weirdo]

Weirdo, I probably won't be painting these minis for a good time yet.  Little knowledge of the BT world or gameplay means I don't know which color scheme I would be wanting...

Fair enough, and we'll be here when that time comes.

...and I don't suspect that the box minis will look good if I have to repaint them a couple of times.

When disappointed, soak and strip. Simple Green eraseth a multitude of sins. 8)