Clan-Specific Trials of Position, any new info?

[Stormfury]

No Clan tests Elementals in Points; see p. 13 of FM: CC or p. 16 of FM: WC, both of which state that two warrior cadets are tested at a time against three opponents each. This is regardless of service branch.

[Archangel]

No Clan tests Elementals in Points; see p. 13 of FM: CC or p. 16 of FM: WC, both of which state that two warrior cadets are tested at a time against three opponents each. This is regardless of service branch.

That is the "standard" Trial of Position but both Field Manuals (FM:CC p17, FM: WC p18) also state: "Many Clans have altered the standard Trial of Position to better suit their training system."  From altering the number of opponents a candidate faces to the environment anything is fair game in the Clan's drive to produce the best warriors possible.  For example, the Jade Falcons have their cadets face off against unaugmented foes before they reach their machines while the Steel Vipers have their cadets face off against sibmates.  Major events can force a Clan to implement temporary changes to its ToP, such as when Khan Marthe Pryde used real combat on Coventry in lieu of a standard Trial of Position.

[Stormfury]

Yes, but such things are exceptions to the rule. Where a Clan departs from the standard Trial of Position- Ghost Bears allowing retraining in another field, Hell's Horses allowing a vehicle retrial, and so on they are all noted in the FM entry for that Clan. Even the Jade Falcon and Steel Viper practice still only results in two cadets facing three opponents each once the Trial proper starts. I mentioned the departures from the straight-up Trial already.

There are no such references to any difference for any Clan about varying the basic Trial protocol for the Elemental phenotype.

[victor_shaw]

I would think, follow the progression of the other phenotype that elemental points would face 1. Freebirth Inf Platoon 2.Point of Elementals 3.then a mech

[Nav_Alpha]

The Wolf's Dragoons example seemed to revolve around the unit getting enough points - meaning they had to work together or everyone failed, regardless of individual efforts.
Although, if you die it appears you flunked out, according to Wolf Pack

[Empyrus]

A bit old thread, but interesting one.

Tangentially related, are Clan Warriors trained to specialize in mech classes? Many times it seems that they're not since the Clan assigns a mech for a warrior. No doubt they're all trained for all classes (like the Jade Falcons using Kit Foxes during training).
Yet, for example, light mechs are quite different from assault mechs, requiring different tactics and thinking.
Perhaps a Clan evaluates warrior's skills and style and assigns a mech based on that?

I wonder because in Path of Glory, Mechwarrior Zane uses a light mechs (a Jenner IIC 2 and a Pack Hunter) and works in a light mech star. Obviously, he could have been assigned to a light mech because of skill-set as i suggest above.

(Perhaps more odd about Zane is the fact he uses a second-line mech despite being a trueborn, and it is more or less clearly stated this was the case before the Nova Cat's Abjuration. Naturally he could have been from a poor bloodline thought more fitting to a second-line unit, or perhaps the Nova Cats had equipment shortages, no Omnis for all trueborn. I believe he fantasized about a day when he would be assigned an OmniMech?)

[Archangel]

An extremely old thread.

I would think, follow the progression of the other phenotype that elemental points would face 1. Freebirth Inf Platoon 2.Star of Elementals 3.then a mech

Highly doubtful.  The cost of them succeeding greatly outweighs the benefit to the Clan.  Even if 5 inexperienced elementals could somehow beat 25 experienced elementals, you are talking about a star and a half of military strength being damaged/destroyed/killed (not to mention quickly running through the number of available freebirth cadets/warriors) in exchange for a single point of military strength graduating (assuming of course they all survived).

BTW who would be in charge?  After all this is their FIRST Trial of Position which is meant to help determine at what rank they enter the touman.

[victor_shaw]

An extremely old thread.

Highly doubtful.  The cost of them succeeding greatly outweighs the benefit to the Clan.  Even if 5 inexperienced elementals could somehow beat 25 experienced elementals, you are talking about a star and a half of military strength being damaged/destroyed/killed (not to mention quickly running through the number of available freebirth cadets/warriors) in exchange for a single point of military strength graduating (assuming of course they all survived).

BTW who would be in charge?  After all this is their FIRST Trial of Position which is meant to help determine at what rank they enter the touman.

sorry just noticed that it should be a Point of Elementals, its been corrected

and I would think they would fight in a circle of equals for the right to command of the Star before the trial stars.

[victor_shaw]

An extremely old thread.

not to mention quickly running through the number of available freebirth cadets/warriors in exchange for a single point of military strength graduating (assuming of course they all survived).

We are Taking about Truebirths vs. Freebirths here, to put it another way How cares.
The Falcons use Freebirth Inf as cannon fodder for there Mechwarrior trials why would they care if they died fighting Elementals ?

[victor_shaw]

Now Heres how i would handle it.

1. Point fights 5 Freebirth Infantry hand-to-hand without armor.
2. Point fights 5 Elementals Both sides without armor.
3. point gets to battle site donning armor then try's to take on a light mech.

[Archangel]

and I would think they would fight in a circle of equals for the right to command of the Star before the trial stars.

Uhm...wouldn't that then be their initial Trial of Position?  Not to mention I have never heard of a ToP involving 5 individuals fighting for the same position at the same time.

We are Taking about Truebirths vs. Freebirths here, to put it another way How cares.
The Falcons use Freebirth Inf as cannon fodder for there Mechwarrior trials why would they care if they died fighting Elementals ?

Plenty of people.  The entire Smoke Jaguar and most of the Steel Viper warrior castes who were both adamantly opposed to permitting freebirths into their respective warrior castes in the first place.  Not to mention the fact that an infantry platoon is comprised of 28 infantry (or at least 4 sibkos which is most if not all the sibkos training at a secondary training facility) not 5 infantry and wouldn't leave few available for other ToPs.

I would think, follow the progression of the other phenotype that elemental points would face 1. Freebirth Inf Platoon 2.Point of Elementals 3.then a mech

The Falcons used a single freeborn sibko in a trial not 4+ sibkos.  Smaller Clans or individual Kindraa would find it extremely difficult coming up with sufficient freeborn trainees especially if one is holding multiple trueborn trials at once.

Now Heres how i would handle it.

1. Point fights 5 Freebirth Infantry hand-to-hand without armor.
2. Point fights 5 Elementals Both sides without armor.
3. point gets to battle site donning armor then try's to take on a light mech.

You are making a huge assumption - that enough members of a single sibko would qualify for their initial ToPs to fill an entire point.  Wouldn't it make more sense for them to hold individual ToPs like the other warrior types rather than trying to adjust the ToP to accommodate the number of potential sibko graduates?

Not to mention that few Clans have the resources to spare for the initial ToPs for what many consider a secondary phenotype.  After all, the same resources would also be needed for other internal Clan trials as well (other ToPs, Trials of Grievance, Bloodright Trials, etc).

To fill a single Elemental star, you are talking about the Clan losing at least a star of elemental warriors and a star of 'Mechs (lights possibly even mediums if no lights are available) plus the potential risk of losing the MechWarriors to injury or death as well.  The losses are likely to be even greater to account for losses among the sibko points during the trials.  Likely end result of your proposed scenario:  Your Clan is losing double (if not more) the military strength it gains for each elemental star filled with new sibko graduates.