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Author Topic: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?  (Read 2409 times)

ahnospell44

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I am wondering if I have 'mech A in front of 'mech B, with B firing at C downrange, and A in front of him. Can I fire? or is it a modifier?

JPArbiter

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #1 on: 10 March 2011, 11:10:29 »
there is no Line of Sight modifier for firing through another peice, friendly or not, in total warfare.
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ahnospell44

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #2 on: 10 March 2011, 11:21:50 »
awesome, thank you, at least it was valid and there was no illegal kills.

Beukeboom Fan

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #3 on: 10 March 2011, 14:59:15 »
The thing to remember is that each hex is 30 meters across - and the mech actually takes up a very small portion of the actual area.

Old Knight

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #4 on: 10 March 2011, 15:16:41 »
This is the official riling in total Warfare page 100
other units: Except for grounded DropShips, intervening units
have no effect on LOS or attacks; grounded DropShips block LOS.
 ;)
It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them; if double, be able to divide them; if equal, engage them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them.
All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

evilauthor

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #5 on: 11 March 2011, 00:03:36 »
The thing to remember is that each hex is 30 meters across - and the mech actually takes up a very small portion of the actual area.

Given how many times I've accidentally shot a lancemate in the Mechwarrior games because they wandered across my crosshairs JUST as I fired, I think we should get an optional rule for unintentional friendly fire.

NightmareSteel

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #6 on: 11 March 2011, 00:27:46 »
So... make an optional rule.

evilauthor

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #7 on: 11 March 2011, 01:32:51 »
So... make an optional rule.

No no no. I meant an OFFICIAL optional rule!  ;)

Hmm... assuming you don't actually want the targeting roll to have actual penalties, how's this?

Case 1: You hit the target but there are intervening obstacles
If the targeting roll hits for a weapon hits, but there are mechs directly between you and your target, roll two dice for each mech in that line of fire between you and the target starting with the nearest one. If you roll a 2, you hit the mech you're rolling on instead of your target. For each subsequent mech add 1 to the target roll cumulatively until you either hit the intervening mech or you reach the intended target. Damage is inflicted as normal for the weapon used.

Example: There are three mechs between you and the target. Your targeting roll hits, but one of the mechs inbetween could have been hit instead. So you roll against 2 on the nearest mech, 3 on the next mech, and 4 on the last mech. If the roll is the target value or less, you hit that mech instead of your intended target.

Case 2: You MISS your target, but there are additional possibly things that could have been hit.
In this case, just roll a against a flat 2 for all possible targets in the line of fire except for the actual intended target (you missed it remember). This includes possible targets in the line of fire BEYOND the intended target. Whatever gets hit takes full damage.

Now in either case, an obstacle need not necessarily be a mech. They could be a vehicle, a building, or whatever. So some mods to the rolls:

Mechs: no mod
Vehicles: +1 to roll
Light Woods: +1 to roll (substitute for targeting roll penalty, ie, using this rule should remove targeting penalties normally inflicted)
Heavy Woods: +2 to roll (sub for targeting roll penalty)
Building: +1 to roll for elevation 1 buildings, +2 for units hiding INSIDE buildings

XaosGorilla

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #8 on: 11 March 2011, 08:34:41 »
    Not bad ideas there, but I'd probably include an option for the shooter to take a tn penalty to ensure he doesn't create a friendly fire incident.

     "Friendly fire, isn't". -Murphy

evilauthor

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #9 on: 11 March 2011, 12:10:50 »
    Not bad ideas there, but I'd probably include an option for the shooter to take a tn penalty to ensure he doesn't create a friendly fire incident.

     "Friendly fire, isn't". -Murphy

Hmm... so noted. Although in that case, you may still have to roll against hitting guys in the line of fire that are BEYOND your intended target if you miss...

JPArbiter

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #10 on: 11 March 2011, 12:19:26 »
I think there is such a rule in Tac Ops
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Iron Mongoose

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #11 on: 18 March 2011, 15:13:56 »
I think the difrence is that in BT, the assumption is that your mechs are piloted by skilled professional soliders (or at least elite techno barbarians) who know what they are doing.  In the MechWarrior games, the truth of the matter is that the AI is largely an idiot with no understanding of how to do anything.  So it makes sense that the AI will wander into your line of sight, but table top mechs are assumed to stay out of it.

At least to me.

That and there's enough to think about and enough dice rolling in the basic game as is, and that and so many other things simply need to be abstracted and ignored in order to keep things smooth and games short.  I've got no problem with a rule, and knowing TacOps I'd be supprised if there wasn't a rule for it in there.  But in general, I wouldn't prefer to use it in games I was in.
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A. Lurker

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #12 on: 21 March 2011, 03:32:46 »
TacOps "Missed Shots" rules, pp. 81 - 83. There's no actual to-hit modifier, but if you miss, you might hit something or somebody else either in front of or behind your target. With the former case making a nice retroactive handwave for why that shot didn't hit where it was supposed to in the first place, of course. ;)

Wanderer

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Re: [Rule Clarification] Firing with 'mech in front of you?
« Reply #13 on: 21 March 2011, 07:32:39 »
Yep. This is indeed a "we have a rule for that" situation. :)