Do the Clans lack a vehicle dropship?

[Billy Boy Mark II]

Something able to carry roughly a trinary of vehicles? Thats 30 isnt it?

[ShadowRaven]

yes, that's 30. I believe Hells Horses have a vehicle droper, but I'm not 100% on that.

[ShockaTime]

yes, that's 30. I believe Hells Horses have a vehicle droper, but I'm not 100% on that.

yeah they have the Outpost, but it only carries a single star of vehicles. It can also carry a star of mechs and elementals plus two points of ASFs, IIRC.

[Alan Grant]

The fluff on the Outpost says prior to it's creation, they were relying on modified Overlord-Cs and Union-Cs to meet their vehicle transportation needs.

[Arkansas Warrior]

The Clans ought to have some Excaliburs somewhere.  Those'll transport 3 full trinaries of heavy vees.

[Stormfury]

I suspect that most Clans ferry what vehicles they have on board cargo haulers. The units that have vehicles rarely move station or deploy offensively, so aside from the Horses and the Blood Spirits, vehicle transport DropShips would not be real high for priority.

[Jackmc]

Also since Safcon is the rule rather than the exception, cargo droppers would be fine.  That also means that there's not a compelling need to develop a new class of droppers to support them.

-Jackmc

[Billy Boy Mark II]

Still it seems strange, particularly given that initially every cluster had a trinary of vehciles in it...

[Colt Ward]

Actually Jack, I am going to disagree with that . . . while they would not be needed in Clan space or to transport them along the Exodus Road, the Nova Cats, Hell's Horse, both Wolves and the Ghost Bears might find them more useful in the IS, perhaps the Ravens with their Outworlds merger.  Now the question is, will they come up with a specific design, or will they just use converted Overlords.  Some of this comes back to, will they build new Mech droppers for use in the IS after the Jihad's nuke happy, PWS and sub-cap weapon explosions- IE, more point defense!

[Alan Grant]

The answer is...we just don't have enough information yet.

If the Clan Toumans shrunk in the years between the end of the Jihad and the beginning of the "Dark Age", then the Clans are probably sitting on an excess of mothballed droppers (for military units that no longer exist) and find it preferable to break out the dropships sitting in mothballs or being used for cargo runs as vehicle droppers.

Also, plenty of years have passed, the other Clans could have picked up the Outpost design and started building it. With a little tinkering, the room for that mech star could become additional vehicle space.

I think variations of the Outpost, and modified versions of the Union and Overlord are the most likely scenarios here. Another plausible scenario is the Clans resume construction on an IS vehicle dropper like the Triumph or Gazelle, or just throw captured ones into service.

A build-from-scratch vehicle dropper doesn't seem necessary to me. There are cheaper alternatives. Less efficient, sure, but the Clans have never put a premium on their vehicles and catered to their needs very well, they get the low-end of the budget.

But again, so much has changed during and after the Jihad, and we're still learning about it.

[Ian Sharpe]

There's that Clan Lion.  Ten heavy bays and lots of cargo space for any lighter vees.  Drop the heavy armour, let them secure a beachhead and then land and unload the lighter stuff.  Or just remove cargo space for more bays.  Once I took several people's advice and started looking at most Droppers as LSTs and other landers, with cargo only for ammo and armour, I felt a lot better about it.  But given that most Clans don't include vehicles in their front-line forces, its not a big issue. 

[Jackmc]

Actually Jack, I am going to disagree with that . . . while they would not be needed in Clan space or to transport them along the Exodus Road, the Nova Cats, Hell's Horse, both Wolves and the Ghost Bears might find them more useful in the IS, perhaps the Ravens with their Outworlds merger. 

The thing is that really all a new class does is change the dropper's offensive/defensive capabilities since conventional vees do not require the special launch equipment that a mech, VTOl or aero unit does.  So what you asking is for a culture that supposedly abhors waste to design a special dropship class for a second-tier combatant, for a scenario that is by far the exception rather than the rule.

Now you do have a point about the Jihad/post-Jihad timeline, but the upgraded defenses woudl apply as much to clan cargo ships as more traditional miltiary dropships.

-Jackmc   

[Jellico]

Fury
Triumph
Gazelle
Fortress
Colossus


This is the SLDF we are talking about here. There are lots of options.



Excaliburs are a maybe.
Condors have been seen.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, just I am in favor of getting some of these nebulous Union and Overlord refits the Clans did finally canonized.

I still think some of the more vehicle minded Clans would standardize a pattern of refits to haul the vehicles, especially as they have more to do with things post-Jihad.

[Jackmc]

Yeah, just I am in favor of getting some of these nebulous Union and Overlord refits the Clans did finally canonized.

Should be pretty straight forward, you get a mixed (1 lt, 1 hvy) vee point for every mech cubicle you remove.  The Union-C and Overlord-C even have extra tonange to handle the burden of running the life support in open cycle mode.

-Jackmc

[Colt Ward]

Yes, but for people who run 'canon only' games, its not canon . . . and thus not available.

[Jackmc]

Yes, but for people who run 'canon only' games, its not canon . . . and thus not available.

True, but how many really run pure canon?  I'd bet it's a bit like 40K tournament players, ie we're a high-profile, vociferous bunch, but in reality we're a very small minority.

-Jackmc

[Wotan]

Like Jellico already stated there are enough old SLDF troop carriers around in clanspace to transport tanks and infantry in combat zones. For all other purposes civil carriers will do it.

I just see need for the Horses or Spirits to develop something like the Fortress or Excalibur for clan organized troops.

[Colt Ward]

Well, the Outpost is the Clan Fortress, the disappointment is that its a combined arms trinary . . . be nice to see a supernova binary or trinary created.

[Wotan]

IIRC the Outpost can't be matched with the Fortress. The Fortess fields a company each of mechs, tanks and infantry. The Outpost just fields a star of each. I miss a carrier that have a trinary each or even more.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

They have all the ex-SLDF Droppers for Homeworlds Clans while the IS Clans can acquire any number of vehicle transports from IS producers.

[Istal_Devalis]

The Clans, for the most part, consider vehicles as third tier equipment.  They're for defensive use. You only really need dedicated bays if you're expecting to hot drop them into combat.  Unless you're the Hells Horses, you can just stuff them into a cargo bay and unload them the slow method, since they're just going to be Garrison forces.

[Colt Ward]

That is the Clans of the 3050s and before . . . now the Clans in the IS are using vehicles to fill the garrison role, and in some cases even on the offensive.  Do you really think your Nova Cats have such strength that they leave behind vehicles when they go offensive?  I am not suggesting the Falcons start using vehicles, but the Bears, Horses, Cats and Warden Wolves are all likely to use them more offensively than ever before.

And for all the SLDF left overs, none of them are set up to the Clan unit organizational level.

[Jackmc]

Unless you're the Hells Horses, you can just stuff them into a cargo bay and unload them the slow method

And the "slow" method isn't exactly slow considering you can put out six vehicles a minute out of a Mule.

-Jackmc

[ArkRoyalRavager]

And for all the SLDF left overs, none of them are set up to the Clan unit organizational level.

They can always be refitted to Clan requirements. All the first Clan dropships were refitted SLDF droppers, afterall.

[Wotan]

Is there any need for refitting ? Either the IS version can transport 12 tanks or 36.
In both cases you have a good carrier for a star or trinary of tanks with a plus of cargo.

[Istal_Devalis]

That is the Clans of the 3050s and before . . . now the Clans in the IS are using vehicles to fill the garrison role, and in some cases even on the offensive.  Do you really think your Nova Cats have such strength that they leave behind vehicles when they go offensive?

...Yes I do, actually.  We're still mechs/fighter supremacists.  Vehicles are still low on the totem pole.  I find it much more likely that any vehicles we bring with us only get unloaded after the mechs and fighters clear the LZ first. They're for holding territory gained on the attack, not for attacking themselves, and can be offloaded out a cargo ramp.  Bays are for units meant to drop into combat...often literally in the Nova Cat's case.

If we find ourselves in a situation where Vehicles need to immediately spring into action once the dropship touches ground?  Something went horrible wrong.

[Jellico]

Thats largely true for everybody.

The primary use of a Bay is the repair facilities. The 'Mech and ASF versions have a nice bonus of launching in various ways. You don't roll off the DropShip straight into battle so there is limited use for a vehicle bay. Indeed maintenance can probably be shared, in a tent.