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Author Topic: Need help with Industry in 3025  (Read 12538 times)

Cazaril

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Need help with Industry in 3025
« on: 29 June 2013, 19:51:57 »
I've been working on this project for about a month now (for those who know me from the miniature section, at least there is a BT reason I'm not painting), and now it’s time to get some help.

The idea is to pin down; What, where, and by whom is currently being produced in the Inner Sphere... How much easier it must be to get replacement parts, when the unit is produced within your own faction (Oh sure, you might be able to pilot a Vindicator in the LCAF, but good luck getting replacements)... Not only that, but as time progresses, the make-up of each House's military should slant heavily towards what they themselves produce...

So I've been scouring what sources I have, to try and sort through and get what I need...

For now, this is only raw, so everything is included. I plan to add some stuff and remove others to make my own custom universe, but I want as close to canon as possible as a starting point...

Some things to remember if you are willing to help:

Please cite your source... If you say that “X” incorporated had a facility on “Y” and they produced “A”, “B” and “C” in 3025, then please include the source and page number. I regret that for the purpose of this, “IIRC” is not good enough...

Thoughts on using Sarna.net as a source...
While I've used Sarna for a few things, this is not an adequate source, because I'm found that they will condense stuff (example - Entry "CN9-A Centurion", states "Demand for the Centurion was so pitched in the AFFS, Corean Enterprises licensed the CN9-A to Jalastar Aerospace on Panpour in 3047", and they cite Technical Readout: 3050, p. 116, and Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade, p. 54 for this... Now I can't comment on TRO:3050U, but TRO:3050 say "Corean Enterprises has recently begun production of the model CN9-D Centurion at its New Avalon factory, and retooling is proceeding feverishly at Jalastar Aerospace's Centurion plant on Panpour."... And those two things do not mean the same thing... The way I read it, JA was retooling their Centurion line to produce the CN9-D, not retooling to start production of Centurions... Add to that, the fact that House Davion-The Federated Suns lists the Centurion as a Jalastar product in 3025 AND in is listed in Objective Raids as a Jalastar product... It means Sarna is a bit unreliable.

All Sources are Flawed...
I don't care if it's the newest TRO:3025 Uber-Upgraded-Revised Edition or the 1st Edition rules, all sources are flawed. When you prove time and again that you can (literally) rewrite history, it's hard to take any one source as "The" source... Sure, official games have to be run by the newer rules but for the rest of us, well we can do whatever... This is whole project is about making sense of all the "flawed" sources and trying to come to a consensus (granted, my consensus) on Who is building What, Where... But just because TRO:3039 doesn't mention the Centurion being built buy Jalastar in 3025, doesn't mean the other two sources were wrong... So lack of proof, is not proof of disproval.

Most units have been returned to their original 3025 variants... The exception to this is some of the FWL Mechs, that appeared as variants in HM:FWL

Some stuff is listed as “speculation”. Mostly these are APCs and maybe LRM/SRM launchers. Basically anything who’s manufacturer was “various” in the TROs, but one of the other sources states they built it, I noted for myself that it was speculation to remind me that it is very probable.

Some companies that change hands in the next 5 years due to take-overs and/or incompetence, have already been swapped. Luthien Armor Works took over Wells Technologies in 3027, I didn’t want to have to remember that, so I swapped it now. Technically making it an incorrect entry, please forgive.

A list of sources I did use...
The original House books, TRO:3025 (where I could), TRO:3026 (same), TRO:3039 (Thank God for DriveThruRPG and PDFs), TRO:3050, The Periphery, The Star League, Comstar, Dropships and Jumpships, Wolf's Dragoons... And Sarna.net (flawed or not)... I think that is everything

Finally, a few words on format;

I’ve divided everything into two sections. Each section has been further divived by House/Major Power and has been presented alphabetically. I did this so people who are more familiar with one power will have an easier time finding the worlds they are looking for.

The first section, are the facilities I believe (and could find confirmation for) exist in 3025, plus production... In a couple of places I’ve added some notes.... I'm looking for a reason to remove stuff. It has to be a canon reason and please cite your source.

The second section, are the facilities that seem a bit questionable that they exist in 3025. Or maybe just what they produce is... I'm looking for a reason to include them... Again, it must be a canon reason and please cite your source

Anyway, whatever help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Caz

===============================================================================



Capellan Conferderation – House Liao

Ares
Bergan Industries
- TRO:3039
* LCT-1V Locust
- Objective Raids
*LCT-1V Locust

Earthwerks Ltd.
- Objective Raids
*Overlord Dropship
* Union Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
*Overlord Dropship
* Union Dropship

Quikscell Company
- TRO:3039
* Scorpion Light Tank
* Bulldog Medium Tank
* LRM Carrier (Speculation)
* SRM Carrier (Speculation)
– Objective Raids
* Scorpion Light Tank
* Bulldog Medium Tank
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier
* Manticore Tank
* APC – Tracked

Betelgeuse
Aldis Industries
- TRO:3039
* Demolisher Heavy Tank
* Schrek PPC Carrier
- Objective Raids
* Demolisher Heavy Tank
* Schrek PPC Carrier
* Behemoth Heavy Tank

Bithinia
Bithinian Ballastics
- Objective Raids
* Autocannons

Capella
Ceres Metals Industries
- HL:CC 3025
* (States it exists, but no description of facility or production)
- TRO:3039
* VND-1R Vindicator
- Objective Raids
* VND-1R Vindicator
* TR-11 Transit
*-* Additional information provided by MadCapellan
--- The Transit was built by Mujika Aerospace in 3025.  TRO: Prototypes describes Ceres Metals takeover of Mujika post 3039.

Mujika AeroSpace Technologies
- TRO:3039
* TR-10 Transit
- Objective Raids
*TR-10 Transit

Rasppur-Owens Inc
- Objective Raids
* Avenger Dropship
* Excalibur Dropship
* Invader Jumpship
* Merchant Jumpship
* Monolith Jumpship
* Triumph Dropship
-Dropships and Jumpships
* Invader Jumpship
* Merchant Jumpship
* Monolith Jumpship

Notes - Dropships and Jumpships page 15 lists "Andurien Industries (L)" as the maker of the Avenger Dropship, Excalibur Dropship and the Triumph Dropship... No other reference to Andurien Industries either in Capellan space or in the Free Worlds League... These three ships also are the same ships missing from the Rashpur-Owens Inc. list in D&J... Assumption/Specualtion - in an effort to make Rashpur-Owens Inc. "The only functional orbital construction yard" left in the Cappellan Confederation, the two company's production was merged in Objective Raids.

Epsilon Eridani
Kressly Warworks
- Objective Raids
* Brutus Assault Tank

Grand Base
Earthwerks Incorporated
- HL:CC 3025
* (States it exists, but no description of facility or production)
- TRO:3039
* CTF-1X Cataphract
* STG-3R Stinger
– Objective Raids
* CTF-1X Cataphract
* STG-3R Stinger

Indicass
Ceres Metals Industries
- TRO:3039
* Swift Wind Scout Car
- Objective Raids
* Swift Wind Scout Car
* Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
* Galleon Tank
* APC – Wheeled

Quikscell
- TRO:3039
* Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun

Nanking
Kallon Industries
- HL:CC 3025
* (States it exists, but no description of facility or production)
- TRO:3039
* WVR-6R Wolverine
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* Ontos Heavy Tank
* Partisan Heavy Tank
- Objective Raids
* WVR-6R Wolverine
* Ontos Heavy Tank
* Partisan Heavy Tank

Note – According to Sarna.net, Kallon-Nanking brought back a downgraded EXT-4A Exterminator, in place of the Wolverine, in 3007. Citing 3050 Upgrade, pg.208, and 3025 Revised, Exterminator Profile

Sarna
Tengo Aerospace
- HL:CC 3025
* (States it exists, but no description of facility or production)
- Objective Raids
* Mammoth Dropship
* Mule Dropship
* Seeker Dropship
* TR-7 Thrush
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* F-10 Cheetah
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Mammoth Dropship
* Mule Dropship
* Seeker Dropship

Sian
Hellespont Industrials
- HL:CC 3025
* (States it exists, but no description of facility or production)
- TRO:3039
*RVN-1X Raven
* Scorpion Light Tank
* Pegasus Scout Hover
* Maxim Hover Transport
- Objective Raids
* RVN-1X Raven
* WSP-1A Wasp
* Scorpion Light Tank
* Pegasus Scout Hover
* Maxim Hover Transport
* Vedette Tank

Saroyan Special Production
- TRO:3039
* TR-13 Transgressor
- Objective Raids
* TR-13 Transgressor

St. Ives
Ceres Metals Industries
- Objective Raids
* (States that there is a facility here, but when was it built? Production listed is unusable)

HildCo Interplanetary
- HL:CC 3025
* (“.. maintenance and repair business” for “support craft”..)
- TRO:3039
* VTR-9B Victor
- Objective Raids
* VTR-9B Victor

Notes – I want to say I ran across a reference that said in 3025, HC rebuilt Victors from battlefield salvage and other destroyed ones.

Mujika AeroSpace Technologies
- TRO:3039
* TR-7 Thrush
* Guardian Conventional Fighter
- Objective Raids
* Guardian Conventional Fighter

Tengo Aerospace
- Objective Raids
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* F-10 Cheetah

Styk
Tao ‘Mechworks
- Objective Raids
* VTR-9B Victor
         
Notes – “the Tao 'Mechworks was the third largest 'Mech manufacturer in Liao space, and its capture was a prime target during the Fourth Succession War”. Meaning it existed in 3025, but what did it produce?

Texlos
HildCo Interplanetary
- Objective Raids
* LTN-G15 Lightning

Notes - HL:CC states HildCo did “maintenance and repair business” for “support craft”, and only mentions St. Ives. Could this facility have existed? The Lightning is an old design, but why not mention them as an “Aerospace Manufacturer” if it did?

Kajuka (Aerospace Division)
- Objective Raids
* Kajuka brand Lasers

Texlos Militronics
- Objective Raids
* Endicott brand Communications Systems
* Dwyerson Targeting/Tracking Systems

Tikonov
Earthwerks Incorportated
- HL:CC 3025
* (States it exists, but no description of facility or production)
- TRO:3039
CTF-1X Cataphract

Notes – HL:CC suggests that the Tikonov facility may have produced Thunderbolts and Vindictors, while Sarna.net suggest that at one time it may have produced the Thunderbolt, Thug, Griffin, Stinger, Bombardier, Vindicator. Clarification is need as to what it actually produced in 3025.


Under Comstar Control – Terra and Mars

Mars
Rebel Industrial Technologies Inc
- TRO:3039
* LT-MOB-25 Mobile Long Tom Artillery

Terra
Aldis Industries
- HD:FS 3025
* Behemoth Heavy Tank
* Demolisher Heavy Tank
* Schrek PPC Carrier
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier
- TRO:3039
* Behemoth Heavy Tank
* Demolisher Heavy Tank
* Devastator Heavy Tank
* Schrek PPC Carrier
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier


Draconis Combine – House Kurita

Al Na’ir
Scarborough Manufactures
- TRO:3039
* Saladin Assault Hover
* Saracen Medium Hover
* Scimitar Medium Hover
* Maxim Hover Transport
* APC – Hover (Speculation)
- Objective Raids
* Saladin Assault Hover
* Saracen Medium Hover
* Scimitar Medium Hover
* Maxim Hover Transport
* APC – Hover

Yori ‘Mech Works
- TRO:3039
* AS7-D Atlas
- Objective Raids
* AS7-D Atlas

Notes – TRO:3025 states the Manufacturer is “Al Na’ir, Quentin, Hesperus”. Since these are worlds, not companies, assumption is it meant Yori ‘Mech Works,

Alshain
Alshain Weapons
- TRO:3039
* PNT-9R Panther

Notes – (Speculation/Assumtion) Alshain Weapons is a subsidiary/division of Gorton, Kinsley and Thorpe Enterprises. The name is used for branding purposes, and only exists on former Alshain Weapons buildings and products.

Joint Equipment Systems
- TRO:3039
* Skulker Wheeled Scout
* Scorpion Light Tank
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier
* APC – Tracked (Speculation)
* APC – Wheeled (Speculation)
- Objective Raids
* Skulker Wheeled Scout
* Scorpion Light Tank
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier
* APC – Tracked
* APC – Wheeled
* Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun

Quikscell
- TRO:3039
* Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun

Avon
Matabushi Corporation
- Objective Raids
* Overloard Dropship
* Union Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Overloard Dropship
* Union Dropship

Chatham
Stellar Trek
 - Objective Raids
* Invader Jumpship
* Merchant Jumpship
* Monolith Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Invader Jumpship
* Merchant Jumpship
* Star Lord Jumpship

Tomori Trans Industrial
- Objective Raids
* Vengeance Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Vengeance Dropship

Wakazashi Enterprises
- HK:DC 3025
* SL-17 Shilone
- TRO:3039
* SL-17 Shilone
- Objective Raids
* SL-17 Shilone
* LCF-16K Lucifer II

Dover
Hinsdale Electronics
- Objective Raids
* Condor Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Condor Dropship

Wakazashi Enterprises
- HK:DC 3025
* SL-15 Slayer
* Conventional Reconnaissance Aircraft
- TRO:3039
* SL-15 Slayer
- Objective Raids
* SL-15 Slayer

Hachiman
Tanadi Computers
- HK:DC 3025
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

Irece
LexaTech Industries
- HK:DC 3025
* STG-A5 Stinger LAM
- Objective Raids
* STG-A5 Stinger LAM

Jarett
Alshain Weapons
- Objective Raids

Notes - Entry states they had to destroy their Jarett plant to    avoid the Clans capturing it, but doesn’t say what was produced. Assuming it was the Gorton Kingsley and Thorpe Enterprises facility

Gorton, Kingsley and Thorpe Enterprises
- HK:DC 3025
* PNT-9R Panther

Kessel
Diverse Optics, Inc.
- Objective Raids
*Diverse Optics brand Lasers

Krenice
Alshain Weapons
- Objective Raids
* PNT-9R Panther

Notes – (Speculation/Assumtion) Alshain Weapons is a subsidiary/division of Gorton, Kinsley and Thorpe Enterprises. The name is used for branding purposes, and only exists on former Alshain Weapons buildings and products.

Lapida II
Nimakachi Fusion Products Ltd.
- TRO:3039
* SDR-5V Spider

Luthien
BBP Industries
- Objective Raids
* Excalibur Dropship
* Intruder Dropship
* Triumph Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Excalibur Dropship
* Intruder Dropship
* Triumph Dropship

Buda Imperial Vehicles
- HK:DC 3025
* 135-K Coolant Truck
* Towugawa Medium Tank
* 67-K Daimyo HQ Unit
- TRO:3039
* 135-K Coolant Truck
- Objective Raids
* 135-K Coolant Truck
* Towugawa Medium Tank
* 67-K Daimyo HQ Unit

Luthien Armor Works
- HK:DC 3025
* CGR-1A1 Charger
* QKD-4G Quickdraw
* DRG-1N Dragon
- TRO:3039
* CGR-1A1 Charger
* LNC-25-02 Lancelot
* QKD-4G Quickdraw
* DRG-1N Dragon
* JR7-D Jenner
- Objective Raids
* CGR-1A1 Charger
* QKD-4G Quickdraw
* DRG-1N Dragon
* JR7-D Jenner

Notes – According to 3039, LAW acquired the Lancelot plans after the Second Succession War, and kept the Mech in limited production.

Matabushi Computing Equipment
- HK:DC 3025
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
- Objective Raids
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

New Oslo
Alshain Weapons
- TRO:3039
* PNT-9R Panther

Notes – (Speculation/Assumtion) Alshain Weapons is a subsidiary/division of Gorton, Kinsley and Thorpe Enterprises. The name is used for branding purposes, and only exists on former Alshain Weapons buildings and products.

Gorton, Kingsley and Thorpe Enterprises
- TRO:3039
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
- Objective Raids
* ARC-2R Archer
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* PNT-9R Panther

Notes - (Speculation/Assumtion) Objective Raids merged Alshain Weapons and Gorton, Kingsley and Thorpe Enterprises together for this entry.

New Samarkand
Nav Hull
- TRO:3039
* Monitor Naval Vessel

Notes – According to Sarna.net’s citation from Objectives: Draconis Combine, NH also produces the Mauna Kea Naval Vessel at this location.
         
New Samarkand Metals
- TRO:3039
* Demolisher Heavy Tank
* Schrek PPC Carrier
- Objective Raids
* Behemoth Tank
* Demolisher Heavy Tank
* Schrek PPC Carrier

Yan Manufacturing
- Sarna.net
* Peacekeeper VTOL
* Soar VTOL

Orestes
Odin Manufacturing
- Sarna.net
* Puma Assault Tank

Proserpina
Bulldog Enterprises
- TRO:3039
* Bulldog Medium Tank
- Objective Raids
* Bulldog Medium Tank
* Manticore Tank
* Tokugawa Tank

Guided Technologies
- Objective Raids
* SRM Launchers

Qandahar
Dow-Nexus Fusion Products
- Objective Raids
* GM Fusion Engines

Rasalhague
Gorton, Kingsley and Thorpe Enterprises
- TRO:3039
* ‘MechBuster Conventional Aircraft
- Objective Raids
* ‘MechBuster Conventional Aircraft

Rasalhague Armor Works
- Objective Raids
* Armor
* Lasers
* PPCs

Satalice
Gorton, Kingsley and Thorpe Enterprises
- TRO:3039
* ARC-2R Archer
- Objective Raids
* ARC-2R Archer

Schuyler
Dharma Hyperspace
- Objective Raids
* Scout Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Scout Jumpship

Galileo Instruments
- Objective Raids
* Achilles Dropship
* Behemoth Dropship
* Triumph Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Achilles Dropship
* Behemoth Dropship
* Monarch Dropship

Magnon Aeronautics
- HK:DC 3025
* SL-21 Sholagar
- TRO:3039
* SL-21 Sholagar
- Objective Raids
* SL-21 Sholagar

Notes – Magnon Aeronautics was purchased by Wakazashi Enterprises sometime before mid-3049 (Clan Invasion). In Objective Raids, WE has a facility on Schulyer. This is assumed to be the old Magnon Aeronautics plant.

Spittal
Benson and Bjorn
- TRO:3039
* Scorpion Light Tank
* APC – Tracked (Speculation)
- Objective Raids
* Scorpion Light Tank
* APC – Tracked
* Vedette Tank

Trondheim
Amau Electronics
- Objective Raids
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems


Federated Suns – House Davion

Addicks
Johnston Industries
- HD:FS 3025
* Goblin Medium Tank
* Large Lasers
* PPCs

Axton
Wangker Aerospace
- HD:FS 3025
* CSR-V12 Corsair
* EGL-R6 Eagle
* THB-D36 Thunderbird
- TRO:3039
* CSR-V12 Corsair
- Objective Raids
* CSR-V12 Corsair
* EGL-R6 Eagle
* THB-D36 Thunderbird

Belladonna
Cal-Boeing of Dorwinion
- HD:FS 3025
* Ferret Light Scout VTOL
* Wild Weasel VTOL
* Marten VTOL
- TRO:3039
* Ferret Light Scout VTOL
- Objective Raids
* Ferret Light Scout VTOL
* Wild Weasel VTOL
* Marten VTOL
* Boomerang Spotter Conventional Aircraft

Notes – According to Sarna.net’s citation from TRO:3050U, C-BD also produces the Ripper VTOL at this location.

Crofton
StarCorp Industries
- TRO:3039
* LGB-0W Longbow
- Objective Raids
* LGB-0W Longbow

Delavan
Dynamico Ltd.
- Objective Raids
* Avenger Dropship
* Buccaneer Dropship
* Exostar brand Lasers
* Marten brand Lasers
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Avenger Dropship
* Buccaneer Dropship

Universal Air
- Objective Raids
* Invader Jumpship
* Star Lord Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Invader Jumpship
* Star Lord Jumpship

Errai
Maltex Corporation
- Objective Raids
* Tiegart brand PPCs

Exeter
Galtor Naval Yards
- TRO:3039
* Neptune Submarine
- Objective Raids
* Neptune Submarine

Filtvelt
Cal-Boeing of Dorwinion
- TRO:3039
* Boomerang Spotter Conventional Aircraft
- Objective Raids
* Boomerang Spotter Conventional Aircraft

Notes – According to Sarna.net’s citation from TRO:3050U, C-BD also produces the Ripper VTOL at this location.

Galax
Federated-Boeing Interstellar
- HD:FS 3025
* Overlord Dropship
* Union Dropship
* Leopard Dropship
* Leopard-CV Dropship
* Gazelle Dropship
* CargoMaster Dropship
* CargoKing Dropship
- Objective Raids
* Overlord Dropship
* Union Dropship
* Leopard Dropship
* Leopard-CV Dropship
* Gazelle Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Union Dropship
* Leopard Dropship
* Leopard-CV Dropship

Galax Launch Systems and Satellites
- HD:FS 3025
* Satellites

Galtor III
Galtor Naval Yards
- TRO:3039
* Neptune Submarine
- Objective Raids
* Neptune Submarine
            
Gulkana
Yefters Weapon Factory
- Objective Raids
* Mydron Autocannons

Johnsondale
Notes – Valiant Vehicles is a joint subsidiary of Wunderland Enterprises and Valiant Sysyems, based on Johnsondale. It is unclear if the design is jointly owned, or if there is a jointly owned facility. TRO:3039 appears to say there are two facilities (one for each parent company), while Objective Raids gives the impression of a Jointly owned facility.

Valiant Systems
- TRO:3039
* Striker Light Tank
- Objective Raids
* Striker Light Tank

Wunderland Enterprises
- TRO:3039
* Striker Light Tank
- Objective Raids
* Striker Light Tank

Kathil
General Motors
- TRO:3039
* MAD-3R Marauder
- Objective Raids
* MAD-3R Marauder

General Motors of Kathil
- HD:FS 3025
* Production not specified
- Objective Raids
* Darter Scout Car
* Jeeps
* Other Support Vehicles

Kirklin
Kallon Industries
- TRO:3039
* Partisan Heavy Tank
- Objective Raids
* Partisan Heavy Tank

Layover
Quikscell Company
- TRO:3039
* Scorpion Light Tank
* LRM Carrier (Speculation)
* SRM Carrier (Speculation)
- Objective Raids
* Scorpion Light Tank
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier
* Vedette Tank

Salvatore Inc.
- Objective Raids
* Seeker Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Seeker Dropship

Marduk
Norse BattleMech Works
- HD:FS 3025
* WVR-6R Wolverine
* GRF-1N Griffin
- TRO:3039
* WVR-6R Wolverine
- Objective Raids
* WVR-6R Wolverine
* GRF-1N Griffin
               
Notes – Captured during the 4th Succession War and renamed Victory Industries. Since this has not happened in 3025, all references to Victory Industries are considered to be Norse BattleMech Works.

Mendham
Mendham Electronics
- HD:FS 3025
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
- Objective Raids
* Garret brand Communications Systems
* Garret brand Targeting/Tracking Systems

New Avalon
Achernar BattleMechs
- HD:FS 3025
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* LCT-1V Locust
* WSP-1A Wasp
- TRO:3039
* DV-6M Dervish
* ENF-4R Enforcer
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
- Objective Raids
* DV-6M Dervish
* ENF-4R Enforcer
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* LCT-1V Locust
* WSP-1A Wasp

Corean Enterprises
- HD:FS 3025
* VLK-QA Valkyrie
- TRO:3039
* VLK-QA Valkyrie
* CN9-A Centurion
- Objective Raids
* VLK-QA Valkyrie
* CN9-A Centurion

Lycomb-Davion IntraTech
- HD:FS 3025
* STU-K5 Stuka
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* HCT-213 Hellcat
* APCs
* Artillery
- TRO:3039
* STU-K5 Stuka
- Objective Raids
* STU-K5 Stuka
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* HCT-213 Hellcat

New Ivaarsen
Galtor Naval Yards
- Sarna.net
* Seahorse

New Syrtis
New Syrtis Shipyards
- HD:FS 3025
* Upgrading
- Objective Raids
* Monarch Dropship
* Mammoth Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Gazelle Dropship
* Monarch Dropship
* Mammoth Dropship

New Valencia
Blackwell Industries
- TRO:3039
* MAD-4A Marauder II
- Objective Raids
* MAD-4A Marauder II
- Wolf’s Dragoons
* MAD-4A Marauder II
* Badger Tracked Support
* Bandit Hovercraft
* Kestrel VTOL
* Peregrine VTOL

Notes – According to Wolf’s Dragoons and cross referenced with the CGL’s MUL (and some help from Sarna.net), the Badger, Bandit and Kestrel all entered service 3008. The MAD-4A Marauder II entered service in 3012 and the Peregrine VTOL entered service in 3021. All five are the result of Wolf’s Dragoons interaction with Blackwell Industries.

Ozawa
General Dynamics
- TRO:3039
* KTO-18 Kintaro
- Objective Raids
* KTO-18 Kintaro

Wunderland Enterprises
- Objective Raids
* Wunderland brand Communications Systems
* Wunderland brand Targeting/Tracking Systems

Panpour
Challenge Systems
- Objective Raids
* Monolith Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Monolith Jumpship

Jalastar Aerospace
- HD:FS 3025
* SPR-H5 SparrowHawk
* CN9-A Centurion
* Manticore Heavy Tank
- TRO:3039
* SPR-H5 SparrowHawk
* Meteor Heavy Conventional Fighter
* Manticore Heavy Tank
- Objective Raids
* SPR-H5 SparrowHawk
* SB-27 Sabre
* CN9-A Centurion
* Manticore Heavy Tank

Quentin
Independence Weaponry
- HD:FS 3025
* AS7-D Atlas
* VTR-9B Victor
* MAD-3R Marauder
* JM6-S JagerMech
- TRO:3039
* AS7-D Atlas
* VTR-9B Victor
* MAD-3R Marauder
- Objective Raids
* AS7-D Atlas
* VTR-9B Victor
* MAD-3R Marauder
* JM6-S JagerMech

Robinson
Valiant Systems
- Objective Raids
* Armor
* LRM Launchers
* SRM Launchers

Salem
General Motors
- TRO:3039
* Behemoth Heavy Tank
- Objective Raids
* APC – Wheeled

Schedar
Rander Communications Equipment Inc
- HD:FS 3025
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
- Objective Raids
* Rander brand Communications Systems
* Rander brand Targeting/Tracking Systems

Talcott
General Motors
- Objective Raids
* GM Fusion Engines

Talon
Kallon Industries
- HD:FS 3025
* JM6-S JagerMech
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* GRF-1N Griffin
* ENF-4R Enforcer
* Partisan Heavy Tank
- TRO:3039
* JM6-S JagerMech
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* GRF-1N Griffin
* HNT-151 Hornet
- Objective Raids
* JM6-S JagerMech
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* GRF-1N Griffin
* ENF-4R Enforcer
* HNT-151 Hornet
« Last Edit: 13 July 2013, 18:20:06 by Cazaril »

Cazaril

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 884
Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #1 on: 29 June 2013, 19:52:11 »
Free Worlds League – House Marik

Amity
Imstar Aerospace
- TRO:3039
* Defender Medium Conventional Fighter
* F-10 Cheetah
- Objective Raids
* F-10 Cheetah

Andurien
Andurien AeroTech (FWDI)
- TRO:3039
* F-90 Stingray
* F-100 Riever
- Objective Raids
* F-90 Stingray
* F-100 Riever
* Intruder Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Intruder Dropship

Brooks Incorporated
- TRO:3039
* Harasser Missile Platform
- Objective Raids
* Harasser Missile Platform
* Galleon Tank

Notes – According to Sarna.net’s citation from TRO:3075, BI also produces the Thumper Combat Vehicle at this location.

Asuncion
Earthwerks Incorporated
- TRO:3039
* FLE-4 Flea
- Objective Raids
* FLE-4 Flea

Kallon Industries
- TRO:3039
* CRD-3R Crusader
- Objective Raids
* CRD-3R Crusader

Arteus
Deller, Bingham and Fouts
- Objective Raids
* Gazelle Dropship
* Mammoth Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Gazelle Dropship
* Mammoth Dropship

Notes - Listed as "Keller, Bingham and Fouts" in Dropships and Jumpships

Imstar Aerospace
- TRO:3039
* F-10 Cheetah
- Objective Raids
* F-10 Cheetah

Bernardo
Earthwerks Incorporated
- TRO:3039
* FLE-4 Flea
- Objective Raids
* FLE-4 Flea

Kallon Industries
- TRO:3039
* CRD-3R Crusader
- Objective Raids
* CRD-3R Crusader

Calloway VI
Earthwerks Incorporated
- HM:FWL 3025
* ARC-2R Archer
* SHD-2H Shadowhawk
* STG-3R Stinger
- TRO:3039
* ARC-2R Archer
* SHD-2H Shadowhawk
* STG-3R Stinger
* BMB-10D Bombardier (Refit Only)
- Objective Raids
* ARC-2R Archer
* SHD-2H Shadowhawk
* STG-3R Stinger

Campbelton
Fusigon Heavy Weaponry
- Objective Raids
* Lasers
* PPCs

Carbonis
IMB Systems
- Objective Raids
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

Clipperton
- Objective Raids
* Leopard Dropship
* Leopard-CV Dropship
* Scout Jumpship
* Union Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Leopard Dropship
* Leopard-CV Dropship
* Scout Jumpship
* Union Dropship

Connaught
Long Interstellar Corporation
- Objective Raids
* Refit and Repair Facility

Dalton
Garret SatComm
- Objective Raids
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

Nimakachi Fusion Products Ltd.
- Objective Raids
* Condor Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Condor Dropship

Emris IV
StarCorps
- TRO:3039
* WHM-6R Warhammer

Fletcher
Flame Tech
- HM:FWL 3025
* Flamers
- Objective Raids
* Flamers

Gibson
Brigadier Corporation
- Objective Raids
* Buccaneer Dropship
* Fury Dropship
* Monarch Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Buccaneer Dropship
* Fury Dropship
* Monarch Dropship

Gibson Federated BattleMechs (FWDI)
- HM:FWL 3025
* MAD-3M Marauder
* WVR-6M Wolverine
* CDA-2A Cicada
* LCT-1V Locust
- TRO:3039
* WVR-6M Wolverine
* CDA-2A Cicada
- Objective Raids
* MAD-3M Marauder
* WVR-6M Wolverine
* CDA-2A Cicada
* LCT-1V Locust

Irian
IMB Systems
- Objective Raids
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

Brooks Incorporated
- TRO:3039
* Harasser Missile Platform
- Objective Raids
* Harasser Missile Platform
* Galleon Tank

Notes – According to Sarna.net’s citation from TRO:3075, BI also produces the Thumper Combat Vehicle at this location.

Irian BattleMechs Unlimited
- HM:FWL 3025
* HER-2S Hermes II
* AWS=8Q Awesome
- TRO:3039
* HER-2S Hermes II
* GLT-4L Guillotine
- Objective Raids
* AWS=8Q Awesome   
* GLT-4L Guillotine
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* HER-2S Hermes II
* HER-1S Hermes

Kalidasa   
Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc.
- HM:FWL 3025
* ON1-K Orion
* HBK-4G Hunchback
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* WSP-1A Wasp
- TRO:3039
* ON1-K Orion
* HBK-4G Hunchback
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* WSP-1A Wasp
- Objective Raids
* ON1-K Orion
* HBK-4G Hunchback
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* WSP-1A Wasp

Quikscell Company
- TRO:3039
* Scorpion Light Tank
* Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
- Objective Raids
* Scorpion Light Tank
* Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
* APC – Hover
* APC – Tracked
* APC – Wheeled

Kendall
Brooks Incorporated
- Objective Raids
* Galleon Tank

Kali Yama / Alphard Trading Corp
- HM:FWL 3025
* ON1-K Orion
- TRO:3039
* ON1-K Orion
- Objective Raids
* ON1-K Orion
* Kali Yama Weapons ACs

Keystone
Earthwerks Incorporated
- HM:FWL 3025
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* GRF-1N Griffin
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* STG-3R Stinger
- TRO:3039
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* THG-10E Thug
* TDR-5S Thunderbolt
* GRF-1N Griffin
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* STG-3R Stinger
- Objective Raids
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* TDR-5S Thunderbolt
* GRF-1N Griffin
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* STG-3R Stinger

Exeter Organization
- TRO:3039
* Pegasus Scout Hover
- Objective Raids
* Pegasus Scout Hover

Lopez
Andurien AeroTech (FWDI)
- TRO:3039
* Angel Light Fighter
- Objective Raids
* F-100 Riever

Magna
- Objective Raids
*Magna Brand Weapons

Loyalty
Kallon Industries
- TRO:3039
* Partisan Heavy Tank
- Objective Raids
* Partisan Heavy Tank
* Vengeance Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Vengeance Dropship

SelaSys Inc.
- Objective Raids
* Star Lord Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Star Lord Jumpship

Mackenzie
Brigadier Corporation
- Objective Raids
* Behemoth Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Behemoth Dropship

Marik
Imstar Aerospace
- TRO:3039
* F-10 Cheetah
* Planetlifter Air Transport
- Objective Raids
* F-10 Cheetah
* Planetlifter Air Transport

Oliver
Brigadier Corporation
- HM:FWL 3025
* CRD-3R Crusader
* GRF-1N Griffin
- TRO:3039
* CRD-3R Crusader
- Objective Raids
* CRD-3R Crusader
* GRF-1N Griffin

Quikscell Company
- Objective Raids
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier

Oriente
Oriente Weapon Works
- Objective Raids
* LRM Launchers
* SRM Launchers

Savannah
Technicron Manufacturing
- HM:FWL 3025
* QKD-4G Quickdraw
- TRO:3039
* AWS-8Q Awesome
* QKD-4G Quickdraw
- Objective Raids
* AWS-8Q Awesome
* QKD-4G Quickdraw

Shiro III
Grumman Amalgamated
- TRO:3039
* Ontos Heavy Tank
- Objective Raids
* Ontos Heavy Tank

Irian BattleMechs Unlimited
- HM:FWL 3025
* STK-3F Stalker
* HER-2S Hermes II
* WSP-1A Wasp
- TRO:3039
* STK-3F Stalker
* HER-2S Hermes II
* WSP-1A Wasp
- Objective Raids
* STK-3F Stalker
* HER-2S Hermes II
* WSP-1A Wasp
* Diverse Optics brand Lasers

Stewart
Corean Enterprises
- HM:FWL 3025
* GOL-1H Goliath
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* LCT-1V Locust
- TRO:3039
* GOL-1H Goliath
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
- Objective Raids
* GOL-1H Goliath
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* LCT-1V Locust

Suzano
Brooks Incorporated
- TRO:3039
* Harasser Missile Platform
- Objective Raids
* Harasser Missile Platform

Tamarind
Forerunner, A.G.
- Objective Raids
* Jumpship Sails

Technicron Manufacturing
- Objective Raids
* Invader Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Invader Jumpship

Tematagi
Nimakachi Fusion Products Ltd.
- HM:FWL 3025
* WHM-6R Warhammer
* VL-2T Vulcan
* SDR-5V Spider
- TRO:3039
* VL-2T Vulcan
* SDR-5V Spider
- Objective Raids
* VL-2T Vulcan
* SDR-5V Spider

Thermopolis
Kallon Industries
- HM:FWL 3025
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* WVR-6M Wolverine
- TRO:3039
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* WVR-6M Wolverine
- Objective Raids
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* WVR-6M Wolverine

Umka
Kerr-McGinniss
- Objective Raids
* Reactor Shielding
* Armor

Wallis
Ronin Inc.
- HM:FWL 3025
* MAD-3M Marauder
* WHM-6R Warhammer
- Objective Raids
* MAD-3M Marauder
* WHM-6R Warhammer

Westover
Andurien AeroTech (FWDI)
- TRO:3039
* F-90 Stingray
- Objective Raids
* F-90 Stingray
* F-100 Riever


Lyran Commonwealth – House Steiner

Alarion
Bowie Industries
- HS:LC 3025
* CHP-W5 Chippewa
* Leopard Dropship
* Union Dropship
- TRO:3039
* CHP-W5 Chippewa
- Objective Raids
* CHP-W5 Chippewa
* Leopard Dropship
* Leopard-CV Dropship
* Union Dropship
* ARC-2R Archer
- Dropship and Jumpships
* Leopard Dropship
* Leopard-CV Dropship
* Union Dropship

Ioto Galactic Enterprises
- Objective Raids
* Invader Jumpship
* Monolith Jumpship
* Scout Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Invader Jumpship
* Monolith Jumpship
* Scout Jumpship

Arc-Royal
Eire MechWorks
- Sarna.net
* Minor Mech repair facility

Aur
Edasich Motors
- HS:LC 3025
* Pitban Engines
- Objective Raids
* Pitban Fusion Engines

Canonbie
Avanti Industries
- Sarna.net
* Zanadu Air Bus
* ACL-800 Comet Airline

Carlisle
Bowie Industries
- HS:LC 3025
* MAD-3R Marauder
* ARC-2R Archer
* PackRat Long Range Patrol Vehicle
- TRO:3039
* PackRat Long Range Patrol Vehicle
- Objective Raids
* MAD-3R Marauder
* ARC-2R Archer
* PackRat Long Range Patrol Vehicle

S.L. Lewis, Inc.
- TRO:3039
* Savannah Master
- Objective Raids
* Savannah Master

Chahar
Trellshire Heavy Industries
- HS:LC 3025
* Artillery Pieces
* Munitions
- Objective Raids
* Autocannons
* Lasers

Coventry
Coventry Metal Works
- HS:LC 3025
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* VL-2T Vulcan
* FS9-H Firestater
* COM-2D Commando
* STG-3R Stinger
- TRO:3039
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* VL-2T Vulcan
* FS9-H Firestater
* COM-2D Commando
* STG-3R Stinger
- Objective Raids
* PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
* VL-2T Vulcan
* FS9-H Firestater
* COM-2D Commando
* STG-3R Stinger

Donegal
Lockheed/CBM Corporation
- HS:LC 3025
* LCF-R15 Lucifer
* SB-27 Sabre
* CNT-1D Centurion
- TRO:3039
* LCF-R15 Lucifer
- Objective Raids
* LCF-R15 Lucifer
* SB-27 Sabre
* CNT-1D Centurion

Edasich
Edasich Motors
- HS:LC 3025
* Vlar brand Engines
- Objective Raids
* Vlar brand Fusion Engines

Furillo
Defiance Industries of Hesperus II
- HS:LC 3025
* ZEU-6S Zeus
* WSP-1A Wasp
* LCT-1V Locust
- TRO:3039
* WSP-1A Wasp
- Objective Raids
* WSP-1A Wasp
* LCT-1V Locust

Lockheed/CBM Corporation
- TRO:3039
* Warrior H-7 VTOL
- Objective Raids
* Warrior H-7 VTOL

N&D
- HS:LC 3025
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
- Objective Raids
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

Gallery
Dynamics Company
- Objective Raids
* Exostar Missile Launchers
* FarFire LRM-20 Launchers

Gibbs
Ioto Galactic Enterprises
- Objective Raids
* Merchant Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Merchant Jumpship

Lockheed/CBM Corporation
- HS:LC 3025
* EGL-R6 Eagle
* THB-D36 Thunderbird
- Objective Raids
* EGL-R6 Eagle
* THB-D36 Thunderbird

Gienah
Gienah Combat Vehicles
- HS:LC 3025
* Wheeled Combat Vehicles
- TRO:3039
* PackRat Long Range Patrol Vehicle
- Objective Raids
* PackRat Long Range Patrol Vehicle
* APC – Wheeled
* Centipede Scout Car

Hesperus II
Defiance Industries of Hesperus II
- HS:LC 3025
* AS7-D Atlas
* ZEU-6S Zeus
* ARC-2R Archer
* GRF-1N Griffin
* HCT-3F Hatchetman
* Rommel Tank
* Patton Tank
* Manticore Tank
- TRO:3039
* AS7-D Atlas
* BNC-3E Banshee
* ZEU-6S Zeus
* FLS-7K Flashman
* GRF-1N Griffin
* HCT-3F Hatchetman
* Rommel Tank
* Patton Tank
* Manticore Tank
* Hunter Light Tank
- Objective Raids
* Avenger Dropship
* AS7-D Atlas
* BNC-3E Banshee
* ZEU-6S Zeus
* ARC-2R Archer
* GRF-1N Griffin
* HCT-3F Hatchetman
* Rommel Tank
* Patton Tank
* Manticore Tank
* Hunter Light Tank
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Avenger Dropship

Doering Electronics
- HS:LC 3025
* Neuro Helmets
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
- Objective Raids
* Neuro Helmets
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

Inarcs
ScolTek Associates
- TRO:3039
* Hi-Scout Drone Carrier
- Objective Raids
* Hi-Scout Drone Carrier

Loburg
StarCorps Industries
- TRO:3039
* LGB-0W Longbow
- Objective Raids
* LGB-0W Longbow

New Earth
Cyclops, Incorporated
- TRO:3039
* Drillson Heavy Hover
- Objective Raids
* Drillson Heavy Hover

New Earth Trading Company
- TRO:3039
* Engineering Vehicles
* Vedette Medium Tank
- Objective Raids
* Manticore Tank
* Vedette Medium Tank

Terex-Schaeff
- Sarna.net
* Corx Tunnel Miner

New Kyoto
Doering Electronics
- HS:LC 3025
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
- Objective Raids
* O/P brand Communications Systems
* O/P brand Targeting/Tracking Systems

RAMTech
- Objective Raids
* RAMTech Lasers

Nusakan
Avanti Industries
- Sarna.net
* Zanadu Air Bus

Pandora
Quikscell Company
- TRO:3039
* Scorpion Light Tank
* APC – Tracked (Speculation)
* LRM Carrier (Speculation)
* SRM Carrier (Speculation)
- Objective Raids
* Scorpion Light Tank
* APC – Tracked
* LRM Carrier
* SRM Carrier

Red Devil Industries
- HS:LC 3025
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* Condor Heavy Hover
* Centipede Scout Car
* Artillery
- TRO:3039
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* Condor Heavy Hover
* Pegasus Scout Hover
- Objective Raids
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* RFL-3N Rifleman
* Condor Heavy Hover
* Pegasus Scout Hover
* Centipede Scout Car

Skye
Avanti Industries
- Sarna.net
* Zanadu Air Bus

Cyclops, Incorporated
- TRO:3039
* APC – Hover (Speculation)
* Maxim Hover Transport
- Objective Raids
* APC – Hover
* Drillson Heavy Hover
* Maxim Hover Transport

Shipil Company
- HS:LC 3025
* SYD-21 Seydlitz
* Overlord Dropship
- TRO:3039
* SYD-21 Seydlitz
- Objective Raids
*SYD-21 Seydlitz
* Overlord Dropship
- Dropship and Jumpships
* Overlord Dropship

Skye Pleasure Craft Limited
- TRO:3039
* Sea Skimmer Hydrofoil
- Objective Raids
* Sea Skimmer Hydrofoil

Son Hoa
StarCorps Industries
- TRO:3039
* Highlander Refit Facility

Sudeten
Olivetti Weaponry
- HS:LC 3025
* WHM-6R Warhammer
* TDR-5S Thunderbolt
* Hunter Light Tank
* J. Edgar Light Hover
- TRO:3039
* WHM-6R Warhammer
* J. Edgar Light Hover
- Objective Raids
* WHM-6R Warhammer
* TDR-5S Thunderbolt
* Hunter Light Tank
* J. Edgar Light Hover

Trellshire Heavy Industries
- TRO:3039
* Sturmfeur Heavy Tank
- Objective Raids
* Sturmfeur Heavy Tank
* Demolisher Heavy Tank

Tharkad
Bauer Enterprises
- Sarna.net
* RPR-100 Rapier

Lockheed/CBM Corporation
- HS:LC 3025
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* HCT-213 Hellcat
- Objective Raids
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* HCT-213 Hellcat

Semier Tron Data
- Objective Raids
* Buccaneer Dropship
* Excalibur Dropship
* Seeker Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Buccaneer Dropship
* Excalibur Dropship
* Seeker Dropship

TharHess Industries
- HS:LC 3025
* CRD-3R Crusader
- TRO:3039
* CRD-3R Crusader
* WLF-1 Wolfhound
- Objective Raids
* CRD-3R Crusader
* WLF-1 Wolfhound
* LRM Launchers
* SRM Launchers
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
* Lasers

Tharkad Aerospace Group (TAG)
- Objective Raids
* Behemoth Dropship
* Fortress Dropship
* Intruder Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Behemoth Dropship
* Intruder Dropship
* Mule Dropship

Twycross
Trellshire Heavy Industries
- HS:LC 3025
* STK-3F Stalker
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* RFL-3N Rifleman
- TRO:3039
* STK-3F Stalker
* RFL-3N Rifleman
- Objective Raids
* STK-3F Stalker
* BLR-1G BattleMaster
* RFL-3N Rifleman


Periphery – Magistracy of Canopus

Canopus IV
Canopus Industries Alpha
- TRO:3039
* Pike Support Vehicle
- Objective Raids
* Pike Support Vehicle

Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
- The Periphery
* LCT-1V Locust
* STG-3R Stinger
* WSP-1A Wasp
- TRO:3039
* LCT-1V Locust
- Objective Raids
* LCT-1V Locust
* STG-3R Stinger
* WSP-1A Wasp

Dunianshire
Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
- The Periphery
* Leopard Dropship
* SHD-2H ShadowHawk
* Manitcore Heavy Tank
* Munitions
- TRO:3039
* SHD-2H ShadowHawk
- Objective Raids
* Leopard Dropship
* SB-27 Sabre
* SHD-2H ShadowHawk
* Manitcore Heavy Tank
* Pike Support Vehicle


Periphery – Outworld Alliance

Alpheratz
Alliance Defenders Limited
- TRO:3039
* LCT-1V Locust
- Objective Raids
* LCT-1V Locust
* STG-3R Stinger
* WSP-1A Wasp

Arenthir Electronics
- Objective Raids
* O/P brand Communications Systems
* O/P brand Targeting/Tracking Systems

Mountain Wolf BattleMechs
- Sarna.net
* MLN-1C Merlin

Lushann
Lushann Industrials Limited
- Objective Raids
* Lasers
* Zippo Flamers

Mitchella
United Outworlders Corporation
- Objective Raids
* Hunter Tank
* Vedette Tank

Praxton
Praxton Fusion Products Limited
- Objective Raids
* Nissan Fusion Engines

Ramora
United Outworlders Corporation
- TRO:3039
* SYD-21 Seydlitz
- Objective Raids
* SYD-21 Seydlitz
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* Armstrong brand Autocannons
* Armstrong brand Machine Guns

Sevon
Alliance Minig and Geology
- The Periphery
* Military Grade Armor
- Objective Raids
* StarSlab brand Armor

Alliance Motors
- The Periphery
* I.C.E. Engines
- Objective Raids
* I.C.E. Engines


Periphery – Taurian Concordat

Brinton
O/P Computer Electronics
- Objective Raids
* O/P brand Communications Systems
* O/P brand Targeting/Tracking Systems

Illiushin
Vandenberg Mechanized Industries
- The Periphery
* Union Dropship
* GRF-1N Griffin
* COM-2D Commando
* STG-3R Stinger
- Objective Raids
* Union Dropship
* GRF-1N Griffin
* COM-2D Commando

Laconis
Taurus Majoris Mining
- Objective Raids
* StarSlab brand Armor

Macleod’s Land
Pinard Protectorates Limited
- The Periphery
* LCT-1V Locust
* STG-3R Stinger
- Objective Raids
* LCT-1V Locust
* STG-3R Stinger   

New Vanderberg
Vandenberg Mechanized Industries
- The Periphery
* CHP-W5 Chippewa
* MAD-3R Marauder
* ARC-2R Archer
* STG-3R Stinger
* Hunter Light Tank
- TRO:3039
* CHP-W5 Chippewa
* ARC-2R Archer
- Objective Raids
* CHP-W5 Chippewa
* MAD-3R Marauder
* ARC-2R Archer
* STG-3R Stinger
* Hunter Light Tank

Organo
Pinard Protectorates Limited
- The Periphery
* SB-27 Sabre
- Objective Raids
* SB-27 Sabre

Perdition
Pinard Protectorates Limited
- The Periphery
* THB-D36 Thunderbird
* WSP-1A Wasp
* Rommel Tank
* Vedette Tank
* J. Edgar Light Hover
- TRO:3039
* J. Edgar Light Hover
- Objective Raids
* THB-D36 Thunderbird
* WSP-1A Wasp
* Rommel Tank
* Vedette Tank
* J. Edgar Light Hover

Pinard
Pinard Protectorates Limited
- The Periphery
* MAD-3R Marauder
* Munitions
- Objective Raids
* MAD-3R Marauder
* Martell Lasers

Pinard-Dicolais Electronics
- The Periphery
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems
- Objective Raids
* Communications Systems
* Targeting/Tracking Systems

Vandenberg Mechanized Industries
- TRO:3039
* WHM-6R Warhammer
- Objective Raids
* WHM-6R Warhammer
* TDR-5S Thunderbolt
* Vedette Tank
                           
Wingman Enterprises Limited
- Sarna.net
* Bat Hawk Conventional Fighter

Sterope
Sterope Defense Industries
- Objective Raids
* Diverse Optics brand Lasers
* Sunglow brand Lasers
* Donal brand PPCs
* Hotshot brand Flamers
* Pontiac brand Autocannons
* Delta Dart brand LRM Launchers

Taurus Territorial Industries
- The Periphery
* Union Dropship
* SYD-21 Seydlitz
* Hunter Light Tank
* Static Gun Emplacements
- Objective Raids
* Union Dropship
* SYD-21 Seydlitz
* APC – Tracked

Notes – According to Sarna.net’s citation from TRO:3058, TTI also produces the Maultier (Basic) at this facility.

Taurus
Magna
- Objective Raids
* Magna brand Engines
* Magna brand Lasers
* Magna brand PPCs
* Star League brand Interplanetary Drives
* Warrior brand Fusion Engines

Taurus Territorial Industries
- The Periphery
* Leopard Dropship
* THB-D36 Thunderbird
- TRO:3039
* WHM-6R Warhammer
- Objective Raids
* Leopard Dropship
* LTN-G15 Lightning
* MAD-3R Marauder
* WHM-6R Warhammer
* TDR-5S Thunderbolt
* LCT-1V Locust
* WSP-1A Wasp

Questionable Facilities

CC – Betelgeuse
* Firmir Weaponry – (Exists in 3025. Does not produce military equipment until 4th SW)
CC – Campertown
* Sacrado Industries – (Possible Product – O/P Comm. Sys., O/P Tar/Track Sys.)
CC – Boardwalk
* Confederation Defense Corporation – (Possible Product – Firebee)
CC – Ingersoll
* Aldis Enterprises – (Dropship... Although Objective Raids states CC had only one factory)
CC – Menke
* Menke Armor and Armament – (Facility construction post 3025?)
* StarCorps Industries – (Seems to have been built around 3057)
CC – Outreach
* Lucas Technologies – (Possible Product – LTV-4 Hover Tank)
* Skobel MechWorks
CC – Sian
* Ceres Metals Industries
CC – St. Ives
* StarCorps Industries – (Seems to have been built around 3057)
* Ceres Metals Industries
CC – Sarmaxa
* Tao ‘Mechwroks
CC – Sarna
* Ceres Metals Industries
CC – Tikonov
* Ceres Metals Industries – (Possible Product – VND-1R Vindicator)
* Earthwerks – (Possible Product – TDR-5S Thunderbolt, THG-10E Thug, GRF-1N Griffin, STG-3R Stinger, BMB-10D Bombardier, VND-1R Vindicator)
CC – Warlock
* Ceres Metals Industries


DC – Aix-la-Chapelle
* Diplan ‘MechYards
DC – Altair
* Long Life Company – (Possible Product – M.A.S.H. Trucks)
DC – Alshain
* Alshain BattleWorx
* Alshain Naval Yards
* Bergan Industries – (Not until after 3040)
DC – Dieron
* Luthien Armor Works
* Terada Warship Yards
DC – Dover
* Dover Shipyards – (Possible Product – Invader Jumpship, Merchant Jumpship)
DC – Grumium
* Grumium Creations – (small company producing various military parts and sub-systems)
DC – Hun Ho
* LexaTech Industries – (Possible Product – Archer, Grasshopper)
DC – Irece
* LAW-Barcella – (Was this a LAW plant taken over by the Clans, or built after they arrived?)
DC – Kagoshima
* Nissan General Industries – (Possible Product – Fusion Engines)
DC – Kimball
* Ceres Metals Industries
DC – Luthien
* Defiance Motors – (Listed in Sarna.net’s “Luthien” entry. Seems unlikely)
* Focke-Achgelis Motorworks
DC – Midway
* DeHuego & Freshet Warship Design
* Midway Shipyards
* Telfar BattleMechs
DC – New Oslo
* DeHuego & Freshet Warship Design
* Galileo Instruments – (According to HK:DC, they existed, but are they still a military provider?)
Notes - According to Dropships and Jumpships, Galileo Instruments builds dropships... Assumption would be that this is done on Schuyler (which is suggested by Objective Raids), so the New Oslo office appears to be Corporate Headquarters/Home Office and none military goods.
DC – New Samarkand
* Wakzashi Enterprise
* Luthien Armor Works
* DeHuego & Freshet Warship Design
DC – Nirasaki
* New Age Systems Incorporated – (Was Spad factory destroyed? shut down? Not exist until after 3025?)
DC – Nykvarn
* Luthien Armor Works
DC – Savinsville
* Luthien Armor Works
DC – Schuyler
* Galileo Instruments – (Seems to have been built post 3025)
Notes - Dropships and Jumpships suggest this existed and produced Achilles and Monarch Dropships. Moved to the confirmed section.
DC – Soul
* Blankenburg Technologies – (Possible Product – Crockett.. When was it built? Sarna.net entry states “During Independence Weaponry's revamp of the old Blankenburg facility on Soul”, which should place revamp after 3040. But is it newly “old” or Star League “old”?
DC – Togura
* Togura Shipyards
DC – *Unknown*
* Unknown – (Possible Product – Deuce-and-a-Half knock-off)


FS – Augusta
* Corean Enterprises
FS – Benet III
* Johnston Industries
FS – Broken Wheel
* Quikscell
FS – Cahokia
* Achernar BattleMechs
FS – Caph
* Lang Industries Incorporated (Possible Product – Shadow Hawk)
FS – Carmacks
* Federated Industries – (Possible Product – Personal Body Armor)
FS – El Dorado
* General Motors
FS – Layover
* Kallon Industries
* Sacrado Industries – (Possible Product – Seeker Dropship, K-1 Dropshuttle, S-7A Bus)
FS – Macintosh
* Apple Computer Interstellar – (Unlikely. They only sell personal computers in 3025, not military)
FS – New Syrtis
* Johnston Industries – (Not until after 4th SW)
FS – Northwind
* Bulldog Enterprises – (Seems improbable)
* Cosara Weaponries – (Was anything left?)
FS – Novaya Zemlya
* Corean Enterprises
* Federated Industries – (Possible Product – Federated Autocannons and Missile Launchers)
FS – Panpour
* Joint Equipment Systems
FS – Talon
* Mercy Industries of Talon – (Possible Product – M.A.S.H. Trucks)
FS – Tancredi IV
* Precision Weaponry – (Lasers produced are LosTech, but did they produce standard?)
FS – Torrence
* Veridian Dynamics – (Possible Product – Tiger Medium Tank)
FS – *Unknown*
* Pintel Corporation – (They exist, but where?.. Manufacture Pintel Heavy Combat ATV)
* Unknown – (Possible Product - Deuce-and-a-Half)


FWL – Atreus
* Imperator Automatic Weapons – (Owned by Kallon. Exist in 3025? Subsidiary? Division?)
FWL – Calloway VI
* Earthwerks Incorporated – (Repair and Refit Facility)
FWL – Paradise
* Curtiss Militech – (Predecessor to Curtiss Industries? Exist 3025? Production?)
FWL – Stewart
* Allied Technologies – (Possible Product – Gotha Aerospace Fighter)
FWL – Tamarind
* Graham-Davis Enterprises – (Possible Product – Patron Patrol Mech)
* Vankateswara BattleMech Refit Facility
FWL – Tongatapu
* Technicron Manufacturing
FWL – Trellisane
* Grumman Amalgamated
* Gutierrez Aerospace – (Production seemed to began 3040)
FWL – *Unknown*
* Unknown – (Possible Product – Deuce-and-a-Half knock-off)


LC – Alarion
* Shipyards of Alarion – (Possible Product – Scout Jumpship, Merchant Jumpship)
LC – Arc-Royal
* Winston-Cherry Seed Consolidated
* TharHes – (Was this something other then support for Wolfhound production)
LC – Chukchi III
* Maxwell Metals Inc. – (Seems to have been built post-3025?)
LC – Coventry
* Ceres Metals Industries
* Defiance Industries
LC – Furillo
* Baltazar III Factory – (no citation. – Possible Product – Firstarter, Ostroc, Marauder)
Notes - More then likely an erroneous entry. Baltazar III Factory - Furillo, is more then likely Baltazar III Factory - Baltazar III... Which was a secret BattleMech facility, established by The Word of Blake... Meaning there founding was after 3052
LC – Gallery
* Quikscell
LC – Gibbs
* Defiance Motors – (built post-3025)
LC – New Earth
* Yankee Weapon Systems
* Skobel MechWorks
* Boeing Interstellar
* New Earth Trading Company – (Possible Product – Norman Utility Truck)
LC – Tharkad
* Semier Data Tron – (Facility construction post 3025?)
Notes - Dropships and Jumpships suggest this existed and produced Seeker, Excalibur and Buccaneer Dropships. Moved to the confirmed section.
* Taatyana Trans-Oceanic Shipyards (Wet Navy builder. Do they still exist?)
* Defiance Motors – (Under Construction 3025)
LC – Thorin
* Skobel MechWorks
LC – Wyatt
* Bowie Industries – (Possible Product – ARC-2R Archer)


P-OA – Marantha
* United Outworlders Corporation – (Possible Product - SYD-21 Seydlitz, LTN-G15 Lightning, THB-D36 Thunderbird)
*-* Additional information provided by Baldur Mekorig
--- (facility of recent construction (by 3067)  by a joint venture. Also, the name is Alliance Aerospace Group. - ECAT35203 - Handbook Major Periphery States, pag. 92)
P-OA – Ramora
* Ravenna Electronics – (Possible Product – Charger)
P-MH – Alphard
* Alphard Trading Corporation
P-RWR Apollo
* United Mechanics, LLC. – (Possible Product – Ignis Tracked Vehicle)
P-TC – Brisbane
* O/P Computer Electronics
P-TC – Burton
* O/P Computer Electronics
P-TC – Dicallus
* Bowie Industries – (Possible Product - Gabriel Reconnaissance Hover)
P-TC – MacLeod’s Land
* Pinard Protectorates Limited – (Possible Product – Bulldog Medium Truck)
P-TC – New Vandenburg
* New Vandenburg Autoworks – (Possible Product – Dromedary. Company still exist?)
P-TC – Perdition
* Alphard Trading Corporation
* Pinard Protectorates Limited – (Possible Product – Bulldog Medium Truck, Pitbull Medium Truck)
P-TC – Pinard
* Pinard Protectorates Limited – (Possible Product – Bulldog Medium Truck, Prowler)

... And Done!
« Last Edit: 09 July 2013, 12:40:19 by Cazaril »

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #2 on: 29 June 2013, 22:03:19 »
Quote
P-OA – Marantha
* United Outworlders Corporation – (Possible Product - SYD-21 Seydlitz, LTN-G15 Lightning, THB-D36 Thunderbird)
(Sarna.net says UOC has two major facilities and The Periphery lists Ramora and Mitchella. Could this have been built later? Could it be a minor Facility?)

 Its is not in the OWA, but the MoC, and its a facility of recent construction (by 3067)  by a joint venture. Also, the name is Alliance Aerospace Group. - ECAT35203 - Handbook Major Periphery States, pag. 92.


Bienheureux vous qui pleurez maintenant car vous serez dans la joie
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S'ils vous frappent d'exclusion
Et s'ils insultent et proscrivent votre nom comme un blâme
A cause du fils de l'autre
Et tressaillez d'allégresse
Car votre récompense
Sera grande dans le cieeeeeeel

MadCapellan

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #3 on: 29 June 2013, 22:05:24 »
The Transit was built by Mujika Aerospace in 3025.  TRO: Prototypes describes Ceres Metals takeover of Mujika post 3039.

Dave Talley

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #4 on: 29 June 2013, 22:58:09 »
tag
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

Diamond Shark

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #5 on: 29 June 2013, 23:14:11 »
oh brother you know i think you are crazy in head for lists and research, but this tops it all.
mad mad mad props to you for compiling all this, now put down the excel file an pick up a paintbrush! ha ha

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #6 on: 30 June 2013, 00:03:26 »
I'm not sure what game would require an exhaustive list like this.

Why tie the GM's hands by leaving no stone unturned?

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #7 on: 30 June 2013, 00:10:22 »
I'm not sure what game would require an exhaustive list like this.

Why tie the GM's hands by leaving no stone unturned?

Not that I want to get into this discussion, but this list is not that much different from Objective Raids... The only difference is I took out most of the fluff, and only listed the units produced, without also listing the parts that made them.

If you don't like this project, and find it too confining, my simple solution is this...

Don't use it.

Caz
« Last Edit: 30 June 2013, 00:13:55 by Cazaril »

Dave Talley

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #8 on: 30 June 2013, 00:12:25 »
I am glad he did, always wanted to do this myself but have an incomplete collection and lack sufficient willpower
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

Syzyx

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #9 on: 30 June 2013, 00:22:31 »
Let me say thank you so much! I am running a 3025 era game right now and I'm sure my players will be looking to go a-viking soon as their current rides are getting near to unusable. This will make figuring out where they need to go much easier.
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #10 on: 30 June 2013, 00:30:31 »
Not that I want to get into this discussion, but this list is not that much different from Objective Raids... The only difference is I took out most of the fluff, and only listed the units produced, without also listing the parts that made them.

If you don't like this project, and find it too confining, my simple solution is this...

Don't use it.

Caz

Wow.  Peace, dude.

I was curious if there was a meaning behind the compilation beyond solely being a quest for completeness.  If that's all it is, hey I can understand it.  Props on the thorough work & putting the reference in one handy location.

MadCapellan

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #11 on: 30 June 2013, 07:11:22 »
I'm not sure what game would require an exhaustive list like this.

Why tie the GM's hands by leaving no stone unturned?

Because it's their game and they like it that way?  I know it's the way I play.  I like knowing where stuff is built in my ongoing campaign on how the universe effects the players access to said equipment.  It makes things a lot more interesting if everyone can't just buy all the Hellstars or Pillagers they want.

Dreyf

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #12 on: 30 June 2013, 10:09:57 »
In the questionable facilities:

LC-Alarion  Henderson JumpShips produced Scout and Merchant JumpShips at Alarion and the company was bought by N&D Shipyards in 3024 per the original Steiner sourcebook.

LC-Tharkad  Semier Data Tron was in operation prior to 3025 according to DropShips and JumpShips producing Buccaneer, Excalibur, and Seeker DropShips.  Sometime prior to the 4SW they teamed with TAG to produce Fortress DropShips.

LC-Furillo  Baltazar III was a world in the Circinus Federation that had a 'Mech plant during the Jihad.  Have no idea how a connection with Furillo was started.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #13 on: 30 June 2013, 11:37:37 »
Quote
P-OA – Ramora
* Ravenna Electronics – (Possible Product – Charger)

 The Charger appears to be a recent (3064 at least) adition. ECAT 35122 TRO:3050U, pag. 86, 4th paragraph mention LAW making a snafu on alloting a production licence for the -1A9 and -2A2 models to Raveena Electronics. Acording to the MUL, the -1A9 model was designed in 3034, and the -2A2 in 3064. My opinion: Raveena Electronics did not produce the mech in 3025.
Bienheureux vous qui pleurez maintenant car vous serez dans la joie
Bienheureux si les Hommes vous haïssent
S'ils vous frappent d'exclusion
Et s'ils insultent et proscrivent votre nom comme un blâme
A cause du fils de l'autre
Et tressaillez d'allégresse
Car votre récompense
Sera grande dans le cieeeeeeel

idea weenie

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #14 on: 30 June 2013, 16:54:24 »

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #15 on: 30 June 2013, 19:39:47 »

Dave Talley

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #16 on: 30 June 2013, 19:50:20 »
didnt have time to leave a remark the first time and wanted to be sure to find it again
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

MOrab46019

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #17 on: 01 July 2013, 16:59:59 »
WOW. Glad you did this. Covers all the big makers. For the one that said it ties the GM hands. Not really. Just like JB. You could have smaller makers out there. Not that much of a leap to get parts you would like to put in your new mech. What factory is near me. What weapons do they put in. Or your Warhammer in your merc unit needs a new PPC. Your tech says a sir we can not get a PPC for a month or two. We can replace it with a Large Laser will take a week. Please keep in mind 3025 was built on parts were hard to get so you would have to use what you could get. Again thank you for this list.

Dave Talley

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #18 on: 01 July 2013, 17:17:50 »
also for a GM it allows you to make up a few things ahead of time

there are wholesalers on many planets on major shipping lanes and on some stations

order ahead of time and as you transit the system your shipment is waiting

then you can start screwing with players, joes whse in new syrtis is out of stock on several items, if you give us an extra day we can substitute XXX for YYY
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #19 on: 02 July 2013, 10:21:26 »
Some things to remember about this list.

1) It isn't complete... According to Sarna.net, some manufacturers build products not listed, but they tend to be the less glamorous stuff like M.A.S.H. units and cooling trucks... Stuff that has been around for decades and is simple tech. At some point I've got to dig it all out, but I want to build and paint something first, as it's been over a month since I picked up a brush. I'm sure I'll be adding an addendum.

2) While some companies are listed as producing lasers, or PPCs, or comm gear, or whatever, these are not the only manufacturers. Objective Raids has most manufacturers building all the components needed to build their products. So that means a 'Mech facility will build Chassis, Armor, Engine, Comm gear, Targeting and Weapons... Companies that seemed to export a lot of their products or only created parts, got listed, not so much for companies that seemed to build just what they needed. (So while you might be able to buy a PPC from Johnston Industries or Maltex Corporation in the FS, maybe you can get one from places like Kallon Industries or Norse BattleMech Works who build Griffins or one of the other BattleMech producers.)

3) This list isn't canon... While every thing is taken from a source, because the sources don't agree, some amount of judgement/creative license will have to be used in deciding what is where. And therefore, it will not be canon... But that also means you'll have to decide what says something is really there. Will you require all three sources to agree? Two out of three? Does any one source carry more weight then the others? Does just being mentioned once mean it is there?... An example of all this is Luthien Armor Work... HK:DC says they make Chargers, Quickdraws and Dragons. TRO:3039 says the make Chargers, Quickdraws, Dragons AND Lancelots and Jenners. While Objective Raids says they make only Chargers, Quickdraws, Dragons and Jenners... So what does your LAW produce?.. I'm sure if we poll enough people we'll get the expected combinations and at least one "I nuked them in <insert date here>"...  ;)

Caz

pensiveswetness

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #20 on: 02 July 2013, 22:58:46 »
if you didnt know, this site http://isatlas.teamspam.net/ sorta is trying to do what your doing (more or less)... again, wouldnt it been better to let Mad Cap work with the materials you already collected and creates a finished Objective Raids 3025 fanfic...  >:D

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #21 on: 03 July 2013, 12:12:56 »
again, wouldnt it been better to let Mad Cap work with the materials you already collected and creates a finished Objective Raids 3025 fanfic...  >:D

I would have loved someone to pick up the torch and create a canon Objective Raids 3025... Although it would be a bit disappointing if the original house books were ignored as irrelevant material (not saying they have been, but the tendency of "Newer is more correct" does tend to invalid some of the material)...

A non-canon fanfic version doesn't do me much good at this point, other then to make some of the pesky "include/don't include" choices for me and maybe hunt out the last of the not listed stuff.

What I'm really needing at this point, is more eyes on this list giving me input about whether or not to include stuff (and the citable reason)... That would be a huge help...

Caz

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #22 on: 03 July 2013, 12:48:53 »
LC-Alarion  Henderson JumpShips produced Scout and Merchant JumpShips at Alarion and the company was bought by N&D Shipyards in 3024 per the original Steiner sourcebook.

According to HS:LC (pg 139) N&D Shipyards did exist in 3025... But... "Because the firm (Henderson Jumpships) was unable to rebuild its war-torn orbiting ship construction bays, the owners had to declare bankruptcy in 3012. It was not until last year the firm was purchased". Assuming HS:LC was written in 3025, that places the purchase in 3024... "Given the huge backing that Nashsan and Defiance are expected to provide, N&D Shipyards should be producing Jumpships and refueling stations within eight years"... This makes the facility as "Non-operational/Repairing", and puts production starting in 3033...

LC-Tharkad  Semier Data Tron was in operation prior to 3025 according to DropShips and JumpShips producing Buccaneer, Excalibur, and Seeker DropShips.  Sometime prior to the 4SW they teamed with TAG to produce Fortress DropShips.

I've looked in Dropships and Jumpships (1619) and been unable to find a reference to Semier Data Tron... Some help with page numbers would be appreciated.

LC-Furillo  Baltazar III was a world in the Circinus Federation that had a 'Mech plant during the Jihad.  Have no idea how a connection with Furillo was started.

Already on my questionable location list.

The Charger appears to be a recent (3064 at least) adition. ECAT 35122 TRO:3050U, pag. 86, 4th paragraph mention LAW making a snafu on alloting a production licence for the -1A9 and -2A2 models to Raveena Electronics. Acording to the MUL, the -1A9 model was designed in 3034, and the -2A2 in 3064. My opinion: Raveena Electronics did not produce the mech in 3025.

Assuming that they weren't producing the 1A1 in 3025... Were they producing something else, or did the facility not exist?.. It's why all products are list as "possible". It's not enough to just disprove the product, I need the facility disproved too...

Dreyf & Baldur Mekorig: I appreciate the input... Please keep it coming.

Caz

Frabby

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #23 on: 03 July 2013, 13:02:26 »
The Charger appears to be a recent (3064 at least) adition. ECAT 35122 TRO:3050U, pag. 86, 4th paragraph mention LAW making a snafu on alloting a production licence for the -1A9 and -2A2 models to Raveena Electronics. Acording to the MUL, the -1A9 model was designed in 3034, and the -2A2 in 3064. My opinion: Raveena Electronics did not produce the mech in 3025.
Actually, in early (like, late 1980s) sources the Charger seemed to appear mostly in Capellan units, and the CC also had a House variant. I was quite surprised to find it was acutally only produced in the DC; presumably to explain what line they shut down to churn out Hatamotos fortwith.

Great project, although closely related to Xotl's RAT tables. You might want to ping Xotl and see if he can contribute anything (chance is he can't because he works on the MUL now and has a lot of knowledge that he mustn't share).
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
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MadCapellan

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #24 on: 03 July 2013, 16:39:41 »
There are no earlier mentions of Raveena Electronics or Charger production there.  Asking for proof the factory didn't exist prior is demanding more than can realistically be provided.  It's virtually impossible to prove a negative.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #25 on: 03 July 2013, 18:36:52 »

Assuming that they weren't producing the 1A1 in 3025... Were they producing something else, or did the facility not exist?.. It's why all products are list as "possible". It's not enough to just disprove the product, I need the facility disproved too...

Dreyf & Baldur Mekorig: I appreciate the input... Please keep it coming.

Caz

E-CAT35122 TRO:3050U is set in 3071, made by Wolfnet, and in the Charger fluff the Raveena mention seems to be a recent incident.
In 01629 The Periphery, set aparently in the early 3020`s ,  Raveena Electronics does not get even mentioned.
In E-CAT3503 Handbook: Major Periphery States, set in 3067, there is no mention of the company.
Only in E-CAT350B007 Objectives: The Clans, pag. 16 and 21 mention for the first time this company, producing "vintage Chargers".

The logical conclusion would be that Raveena Electronics is a recent (for the Jihad era) producer that do not existed in 3025.
 
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Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #26 on: 03 July 2013, 18:45:44 »
There are no earlier mentions of Raveena Electronics or Charger production there.  Asking for proof the factory didn't exist prior is demanding more than can realistically be provided.  It's virtually impossible to prove a negative.

I'm not looking for someone to prove a negative...

Proving that the facility might not have produced Chargers in 3025, doesn't prove that the factory didn't exist in 3025, it only proves that it didn't produce that product (and even that proof seems to be speculation)...

What I'm looking for is "built in", "founded in", "Founded during the Star League", "Producer of Mechs for over 200 years", "built to manufacture the new <enter Mech variant and name here>"... Anything that might suggest when it came into existence...

Who is to say that Ravenna Electronics wasn't already building the Charger, and LAW's snafu was in giving their old licensee too many licenses for the newer, more desirable, models? Or maybe they have been producing, say Victors, for a century and retooled to the Charger with LAW's snafu. Or maybe the plant was built specifically for the Charger.

The problem is that we don't know. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Which is why the facility is still right where it started, in the "Questionable" list. We don't have proof one way or the other of it's history.

I am by no means trying to belittle Baldur Mekorig's contribution or effort, but he hasn't presented a citable case that Ravenna Electronics wasn't producing something in 3025...

Considering the scant amount of information we have on some of these companies at this time, I have the feeling that a lot of the "Questionable" list will remain so. They'll be the canon facilities that 3025 GMs can tweek into existence early, or arbitrarily decide they exist for their own game.

Caz

Dreyf

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #27 on: 03 July 2013, 19:07:19 »
I've looked in Dropships and Jumpships (1619) and been unable to find a reference to Semier Data Tron... Some help with page numbers would be appreciated.

According to the ToC it is page 15 but my pages are not numbered.  There is a chart that has JS and DS production with a list of the companies, but not systems, where the designs are produced.

Quote
Already on my questionable location list.

I provided the information because it is not really questionable, it does not exist at all and should just be erased.  I would be interested to see what source you got the connection between Baltazar and Furillo in the first place.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #28 on: 03 July 2013, 19:10:38 »
E-CAT35122 TRO:3050U is set in 3071, made by Wolfnet, and in the Charger fluff the Raveena mention seems to be a recent incident.
In 01629 The Periphery, set aparently in the early 3020`s ,  Raveena Electronics does not get even mentioned.
In E-CAT3503 Handbook: Major Periphery States, set in 3067, there is no mention of the company.
Only in E-CAT350B007 Objectives: The Clans, pag. 16 and 21 mention for the first time this company, producing "vintage Chargers".

The logical conclusion would be that Raveena Electronics is a recent (for the Jihad era) producer that do not existed in 3025.

House Marik - The Free World League (Published 1988, In Character around 3025) says nothing about Earthwerks Incorporated on Keystone producing the Thug
Objectives Raids (Published 1992, In Character 3054) says nothing about Earthwerks Incorporated on Keystone producing the Thug
TRO:3039 (Published 2009, In Character 3039) says that Earthwerks Incorporated on Keystone produces the Thug....

In Character, TRO:3039 sits between HM:FWL and OR. But yet neither of them mention the production... TRO:3039, which is the newest of the three, in canon terms, trumps the other two and say EI did produce it... And it took TRO:3039 to state that...

You are using lack of information to prove your argument... And using a similar argument, if I'd have done this project back in 2008, I could have said that Earthwerks Incorporated didn't make the Thug in 3025, and I'd have been wrong...

Plus, I think you are mistaking what I'm saying, as I think you are wrong... What you've provided is compelling evidence that it probably did not exist... But probably is not enough... Until you can cite something that is more then speculation or reader interpretation it's not canon... And if you go though the list, there are others that fall into that category... Example;

DC – Schuyler
* Galileo Instruments – (Seems to have been built post 3025)

I know Galileo Instruments existed in 3025, but I can't pin down when the Schuyler facility was built. Galileo had a falling out with the military procurement board of the Draconis Combine, split off their military portion, but seems to be building Achilles on Schulyer... There is no canon evidence of when, so it's "questionable"...

Caz

Edit:
According to the ToC it is page 15 but my pages are not numbered.  There is a chart that has JS and DS production with a list of the companies, but not systems, where the designs are produced.

I provided the information because it is not really questionable, it does not exist at all and should just be erased.  I would be interested to see what source you got the connection between Baltazar and Furillo in the first place.

Thank you for the page number... The only reference I could find was on Sarna.net and they said page 17. I looked for an index, but D&J doesn't have one. Silly me never thought to look for a ToC.

I found the connection on Sarna.net... Which is part of why I'm not a fan using them as a source citation. I stumbled on it (as I was reversing all the companies on Furillo), and included it... The fact that it is highly questionable, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in 3025.
« Last Edit: 03 July 2013, 19:17:50 by Cazaril »

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #29 on: 03 July 2013, 19:18:09 »


I know Galileo Instruments existed in 3025, but I can't pin down when the Schuyler facility was built. Galileo had a falling out with the military procurement board of the Draconis Combine, split off their military portion, but seems to be building Achilles on Schulyer... There is no canon evidence of when, so it's "questionable"...


Dropships/Jumpships is in-character set in 3025, and it mentiones that Galileo Instruments is producing Achilles class ships at that time.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #30 on: 03 July 2013, 19:55:28 »
Dropships/Jumpships is in-character set in 3025, and it mentiones that Galileo Instruments is producing Achilles class ships at that time.

And more...

I'm about to add the Dropships and Jumpships information, I completely missed the chart from the book.

Thank You Drefy for pointing that out, and me to the correct page...

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #31 on: 03 July 2013, 20:10:24 »
While I understand what you are saying Cazaril, As a person who got his start with a similar fan project, I think people are considerably more interested in what can be confirmed as in production than what is unverifiable. 

That it is possible that there was a Raveena Electronics making Chargers in 3025 is no different than it being possible that the Capellans were making Thunderbolts on Grand Base in 3025. Earthwerks has been established as having a factory at Grand Base, but there is no proof they produced T-bolts there.  Of course, there's nothing saying they didn't either, and it was a common Capellan 'Mech built by Earthwerks!

If players are interested in a list of manufacturing, they are going to be interested in what is confirmed, not what is hypothetically possible.

If fans are looking to add their own production centers, they'll do so to suit the needs of their home campaigns.

Your example of the Thug is a retcon.  You are claiming now that you would have been "wrong", but I'd say that until the retcon was published you'd have been right to leave it off.  If I said the Capellans have Earthwerks plants that could also be building Archers, and they do produce Archers in 3067, should you put a Capellan Archer plant on your list, or wait for proof in print?*

* - MadCapellan is in no way establishing or implying the Capellans were producing Archers in 3025 with this post.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #32 on: 03 July 2013, 20:21:54 »
And I get what you are saying... That is why the list was broken up into two parts...

The first is as confirmed as possible, and it requires proof to knock something off it (as you did with the Transit/Ceres Metals/Mujika Aerospace listing)

The second list is unconfirmed stuff or questionable stuff... It sits there until it has been proven to exist in 3025 or proven it doesn't exist (because it was built afterwards). But it still takes canon proof...

Those who only want the confirmed canon stuff, should just use the top stuff... Those that want to tweek the universe, we both know will do whatever... The "Questionable" list really is a "Looking for more information on" list...

But saying it doesn't exist, because no proof can be found that it does, isn't the same as it doesn't exist... As Dropships and Jumpships taught me about Galileo Instruments.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #33 on: 04 July 2013, 00:09:47 »
oh boy... this is either going to be a marriage made in hell, or the greatest tag-team ever created since The Hart Foundation...

MADCAP, is it possible to use the Objective Raids materials as a basis for building a comfirmable list of manufactoring plants? by sighting only common succession War tech that was still being made at that time?

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #34 on: 04 July 2013, 00:19:44 »
I'd say the original Objective Raids can make for a decent starting point.  Much of what appears in my fanbook, Objective Raids 3067, is pretty irrelevent to the 3025 era.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #35 on: 04 July 2013, 00:40:22 »
MADCAP, is it possible to use the Objective Raids materials as a basis for building a comfirmable list of manufactoring plants? by sighting only common succession War tech that was still being made at that time?

While you may have directed this to MADCAP, I'm going to throw my two cents in...

The problem with using Objective Raids as a single source for manufacturing plants, is that it was written (in game perspective) after both the Helm Memory Core and Dallas Memory Core have been discovered. Because these two items allowed the Inner Sphere not just to recover technology, but the ability to manufacture that technology, it taints Objective Raids with facilities that may not have existed in 3025... It's why I went with a multiple source, raw data approach to finding information... Does the list give a definitive "this was here, that was there"? No... But it allows each GM to interpret the list in their own way, giving them as much data to work with as possible...

So while you can use just Objectives Raids, I don't think you'll have as accurate a picture of the manufacturing ability of the Inner Sphere, as you would have if you consider all the sources I've included in this list...

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #36 on: 04 July 2013, 01:18:29 »
I don't think pensivesweetness was indicating that Objective Raids could be used as the sole source so much as it (or perhaps my fan project, I wasn't sure) could serve as one source amongst many that could help you.

MOrab46019

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #37 on: 04 July 2013, 06:24:29 »
I love both lists. More info the better. I only own Ob Raid book that cover 3050. I was hoping for a update book that would have cover 3055 and 3060. PDFs I guess cover this. Im not a fan of PDFs Just yet. THANK YOU for this list.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #38 on: 04 July 2013, 07:58:42 »
Hey Caz. I have a friend who's been working on a similar project. So far he's gotten all the old big sources done for mechs and aerospace fighters and is now working his way through the smaller scenario books and things while he starts up his charts for DS. His cap is about 3053 for this project IIRC. His mandate was "Present the info as it is, and where it's located. Any inferences are for the people using it to make."

It really put a lot of things into perspective for me. Like I hadn't realized that the Snakes didn't produce a single bug in 3025 (LAM's not withstanding). No wonder they were overflowing with Jenners and Panthers back in the day.

Might give you a jumpstart.

What kills me is I know there have to be spreadsheets like this for the current devs and factories and lines but it's not shared info. You just get some snippets of it in the MUL.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #39 on: 04 July 2013, 09:46:59 »
Hey Caz. I have a friend who's been working on a similar project.

It looks like we are both trying to invent the wheel, only from slightly different perspectives (he went with a "<this unit> is produced <here>" format, where I went with a "<this facility> builds <these units>" format)... 

I'll have to double check it against my list, and I'll probably hang on to it for his production notes (something I choose to weed out)... But considering we're both working from what looks like the same sources, we should pretty much have the same list.

Thanks for posting those for me.

Caz

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #40 on: 08 July 2013, 09:19:35 »
Shameless bump to see if anyone knows anything else.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #41 on: 08 July 2013, 09:25:03 »
Well, in the process of researching a question on the writers forums, I determined the Charger couldn't be produced by Raveena in 3025 - they received their license from LAW, who didn't have the rights to the Charger until they bought out Wells Technology in 3027.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #42 on: 08 July 2013, 10:43:47 »
Well, in the process of researching a question on the writers forums, I determined the Charger couldn't be produced by Raveena in 3025 - they received their license from LAW, who didn't have the rights to the Charger until they bought out Wells Technology in 3027.

The LAW/Wells buy out was one of those "Some companies that change hands in the next 5 years due to take-overs and/or incompetence, have already been swapped.", I mentioned at the very top... So technically LAW wouldn't have had the right (more then likely) to re-license it to Ravenna.

But that doesn't say that Wells Technology didn't, and when LAW bought them out they also got the licensing agreements, which they honored... Furthermore, the Wells/Ravenna association could have been how LAW became associated with Ravenna in the first place. They sort of inherited the relationship.

Furthermore the license that is mentioned in ECAT 35122 TRO:3050U, pag. 86, 4th paragraph, according to Baldur Mekorig, is for the -1A9 and -2A2 models... Supposedly (according to Sarna.net), Objectives: The Clans, on pages 16 and/or 21 (seems the more likely) states that Ravenna got their licenses for these two models in 3067... But nothing says that Ravenna didn't exist in 3025 and nothing says that they didn't produce the -1A1 (or something else) back then... All you have done is prove that LAW couldn't have been the source of their license, because they didn't own the rights to the Charger at that time...

To me, that is still absence of evidence being used as evidence of absence, and speculation being presented as fact.

I'm also sorry if you feel I'm being unreasonable about this. I posted this online, because I'm aware that there are people out there with more of the canon resources, and they know the material way better then me... But a belief that people might know more then me, is not a reason not to hold their information to the same test as I held each entry as I was making this list.... Also If you'll notice, those people who could provide proof, I changed things. So it's not that I'm unwilling to listen... But even Baldur Mekorig's original post said "My opinion:"... And if you look at it one way, my version of Ravenna's history (that they got the license from Wells, before the LAW take-over) has just as much canon support, as Ravenna not making the Charger at all in 3025... I'm not saying that is what happened, I'm just saying there is as much proof of it.

Which, as I've said before, means the entry stays on the list, and hopefully people move on to some other entry and see what else they can dig up on that one.

Caz


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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #43 on: 08 July 2013, 11:05:26 »
My friend, if you want Raveena to make the CGR-1A1 Charger in 3025, you're more than welcome to do whatever you like in your game, but I think assuming they make it in 3025 because they make it in 3067 is a little silly.

In order for us to believe Raveena Electronics to produce the CGR-1A1 Charger in 3025, we must make the following assumptions:

1. - That Raveena Electronics existed at all, when no source has indicated they do
2. - That they were able to license the design from Wells Technologies, when Wells was only surviving on exporting the already rather undesirable Charger chassis.
3. - That for some reason, the license from Wells did not include 2A2 and 1A9 Chargers.
4. - That they subsequently would have to license those models from LAW

You'll have to excuse me for being incredulous, but that's a rather large number of assumptions to make to support an idea that we have no evidence for.

Does Earthwerks on Grand Base make Archers in 3025?  They make them in 3067.  There's no source that says they didn't make them in 3025.  We can very easily make this same assumption about a whole host of 'Mech chassis produced later and just arbitrarily roll them back into time periods where they were never mentioned, but that seems to be ignoring the weight of canon that infers they didn't exist.

Canon sourcebooks don't make a habit of spelling out what doesn't exist, because until it's mentioned, it didn't exist for the authors.  Surely you understand that.

Compiling a list of what is confirmed in production in 3067 and then assuming it applies to 3025 isn't a particularly accurate way to go about things.  My intention is not to discredit your work.  I think it's great that you are gathering this information for fans to use as a resource.  It just feels arbitrary that only Raveena's Charger line is singled out for this subjective benefit of the doubt, and not the dozens of production lines of classic 'Mechs across the Inner Sphere in the 3060s and 3070s. 
« Last Edit: 08 July 2013, 11:10:20 by MadCapellan »

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #44 on: 08 July 2013, 13:18:41 »
And you are missing the whole point of where it is at... It's under "Questionable", and not under the Outworld Alliance entry, because we have no proof it did or didn't exist... It's not singled out for special treat. I placed it where all the others that I couldn't find canon source material as to whether or not they existed, and stated that I needed canon proof to either promote them to confirmed or knock them out all together...

That canon proof would come in the form of "Ravenna Electonics was founded in <date after 3025>", or "Ravenna Electronic was build to start production of the -1A9", or "Ravenna Electronics was formed after the <Fourth Succession War, before the Jihad, Name your event>"

As for using the newer date stuff, to make a list of possible companies that might have existed, nothing is wrong with that... Because I never said because it existed in 3067 in DID exist in 3025, I said that because it existed in 3067 it COULD HAVE existed in 3025.

1. - That Raveena Electronics existed at all, when no source has indicated they do

We have no founding date (or description), so we have no proof they did or didn't exist at this time... But we do know they existed later.... And while I'm not making the assumption they do exist in 3025, you are making the assumption they don't, based on a absence of evidence.

2. - That they were able to license the design from Wells Technologies, when Wells was only surviving on exporting the already rather undesirable Charger chassis.

So it's not possible that a company that is struggling to survive, to license their product to an area that has only one facility capable producing Assault class Mechs, so they could live off the licensing fees? Because to my way of thinking, if you have Atlases, it's easy to dismiss the Charger, but when the best you product is the Merlin (and 20 tonners after that), I think the Charger might look pretty good.

3. - That for some reason, the license from Wells did not include 2A2 and 1A9 Chargers.

The original license from Wells could not have included those models, because as Baldur Mekorig pointed out, Acording to the MUL, the -1A9 model was designed in 3034, and the -2A2 in 3064... How do you license something that wasn't even designed yet... But it doesn't mean that a desperate company like Wells wouldn't have agreed to letting them have any upgrades in the future. Some kind of "upgrade" clause in the contract.

4. - That they subsequently would have to license those models from LAW
Maybe they were on good terms. Maybe there was an upgrade clause. Maybe Ravenna Electronics was really interested in getting their hands on a better model, and with the Clans breathing down everyones neck, LAW felt it was a good idea to have as many Chargers as possible being produced and ready for war. Maybe LAW just wanted the money...

We don't know if/why... But what we do know, is that at some point LAW was willing to license the -1A9 and the -2A2. Why is it so hard to believe that a struggling Wells would have licensed the -1A1? I'm not saying they did, I'm saying they could have.

You'll have to excuse me for being incredulous, but that's a rather large number of assumptions to make to support an idea that we have no evidence for.

I'm not the one making assumptions... I'm the one asking for some kind of canon proof, one way or the other, that will definitively say yes or no... What I'm getting, is people saying that because it wasn't listed in an earlier piece, it didn't exist, which does happen to be a speculation, because there is no proof it wasn't an omission...

Does Earthwerks on Grand Base make Archers in 3025?  They make them in 3067.  There's no source that says they didn't make them in 3025.  We can very easily make this same assumption about a whole host of 'Mech chassis produced later and just arbitrarily roll them back into time periods where they were never mentioned, but that seems to be ignoring the weight of canon that infers they didn't exist.

Do you see Archers on my Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Grand Base entry?

Better yet... What do you see in the entry for Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Tikonov? You see that HL:CC 3025 - states it exists, but no description of facility or production. You see that TRO:3039 states that they build CTF-1X Cataphract. And you see "Notes – HL:CC suggests that the Tikonov facility may have produced Thunderbolts and Vindictors, while Sarna.net suggest that at one time it may have produced the Thunderbolt, Thug, Griffin, Stinger, Bombardier, Vindicator. Clarification is need as to what it actually produced in 3025."...

So I have evidence that they may have created that whole lost of Mechs, but I'm still asking for clarification... Including for the Thunderbolts and Vindicators... Because I don't have and proof of what they made... And I'm not making any assumptions either.

Canon sourcebooks don't make a habit of spelling out what doesn't exist, because until it's mentioned, it didn't exist for the authors.  Surely you understand that.

I'm not asking if Bob's Mech-a-lot Factory might have existed on Planet X... And then saying because the authors haven't said it doesn't, that it does... I'm asking for proof of when a canon company, on a canon world, making a canon product was founded and if in/before 3025, what did they produce?... Surely you understand that those are not the same question.

Compiling a list of what is confirmed in production in 3067 and then assuming it applies to 3025 isn't a particularly accurate way to go about things.

And by no means it that what I did... I compiled a list from as many sources between 3025 and 3054 as I could find, then presented the raw data (including a list of suspect companies) for others to help me whittle out any inappropriate companies that may have gotten through my research...

I also never once said that this was "Objectives Raid - 3025"... If anything, I've tried to make it clear that this is nothing more then a list that I need help on, which will become my personal Objectives Raid - 3025, which more then likely no one but me will ever see.

I've tried very hard not to make any assumptions in this list (other then notes to self), because people can use the list as a basis for their own universe, without having to swim through any of my own prejudices.

My intention is not to discredit your work.

I never thought you were... And since this is nothing more then a list, with citations mostly noted, I'm not even sure you could... It's not that kind of project.

It just feels arbitrary that only Raveena's Charger line is singled out for this subjective benefit of the doubt, and not the dozens of production lines of classic 'Mechs across the Inner Sphere in the 3060s and 3070s.

Again... Ravenna isn't being singled out... It is one of many in my "Questionable" list. And I wouldn't accept absence of proof being proof of absence for any of them... It is only being singled out by people who insist on making the assumption that it didn't exist, because there is no canon proof that it did...

Lets take FS – New Syrtis - Johnston Industries as an example... I knocked it out (although I didn't strike through it) because I found a reference that it wasn't built until after 4th Succession War... Adequate canon proof of when it was built and that it couldn't have existed in 3025... But no one has produced that kind of proof for Ravenna Electronics...

Not only that, but people seem to equate "Didn't produce the Charger" with "didn't exist"... Because that is another assumption...

So maybe Ravenna Electronics did make the Charger. Maybe there relationship started out as a producer of Dalban HiRez Targeting and Tracking components... Maybe they sold them to Wells in 3025, and then LAW afterwards. Maybe that relationship was what prompted LAW to license the Charger later on... Again, not saying this happened, but we don't know how the relationship started... But that would mean that Ravenna Electronics was in business in 3025, making military hardware, and would go on my list... It's why the "Product" is "Possible". Because I am willing to accept that they may not have produced the product I listed, but they may have produced something else just as important (like the T&T components)...

Currently, I don't believe there is any evidence, one way or the other, to either promote Ravenna to the Outworld Alliance entry, or knock it completely off the list... Maybe in the future, someone with authority will write some piece of canon information/story, that gives us some kind of founding date... Then we'll have our answer...

Until then, saying it didn't exist, does just as big of a disservice as saying that it did... Because neither side has any canon proof (other then absence of proof)

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #45 on: 08 July 2013, 13:28:06 »
Do you see Archers on my Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Grand Base entry?

No, which is precisely why I brought it up.  It is listed neither in the main section or the questionable section, despite being produced there in Objectives: Capellan Confederation.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #46 on: 08 July 2013, 13:49:49 »
No, which is precisely why I brought it up.  It is listed neither in the main section or the questionable section, despite being produced there in Objectives: Capellan Confederation.

Because I only went with sources up to Objective Raids 3054 perspective (Translation: I had Objective Raids... Although I did buy TRO:3039 for this project)...

There is a certain point where the Inner Spheres production has been changed so much from what it was in 3025, that the sources become useless... All the original 3025 stuff carry a lot of weight, but as it has been point out time and again, it has incorrect information and omissions... I feel the same way about TRO:3039 and Objective Raids... So the idea was to gather as much raw data as possible and ask for people to help catch my errors and omissions...

Then I'll go make my list (whittling out the production I don't think is correct) and others can go make theirs.

What I'm not willing to accept though, is that your statement of (correct me if I'm wrong) "I couldn't find any information that Ravenna Electronics existed in 3025 and/or produced the Charger in 3025" is more correct then my statement of "We don't know enough about the history of Ravenna Electronics to make a decision of when it was started, or what it produced and when. So lets just leave it in the "Questionable" ("needs more information") list, until we find out more"... I'm not even arguing that it existed in 3025. I'm arguing that we lack enough information to say whether or not it did exist in 3025.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #47 on: 08 July 2013, 14:04:55 »
There is a certain point where the Inner Spheres production has been changed so much from what it was in 3025, that the sources become useless...

That's exactly what I've been saying.  I'm not sure why the Charger reference, which comes from two canon products, one set in 3071 (TRO3050U), and the other set in 3079 (Objectives Clans), gets included, but the Archer reference or others gets excluded.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #48 on: 08 July 2013, 14:34:35 »
That's exactly what I've been saying.  I'm not sure why the Charger reference, which comes from two canon products, one set in 3071 (TRO3050U), and the other set in 3079 (Objectives Clans), gets included, but the Archer reference or others gets excluded.

It isn't a "Charger" reference... It's a "Ravenna Electronics" reference... It may seem the same thing, but it's not.

As to where it came from, I stumbled on it while I was looking up the world Ramora on Sarna.net, and found it listed in their list of companies... So it became a "Possible Company", making a "Possible Product"...

In the end, I'm mostly concerned with confirming it existed in 3025, with what it produced being a secondary issue... But everyone seems to have gotten hung up on the "Charger" aspect, along with knocking it off the list, instead of just accepting we don't have enough information to make that call.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #49 on: 08 July 2013, 14:35:58 »
It isn't a "Charger" reference... It's a "Ravenna Electronics" reference... It may seem the same thing, but it's not.

Okay.  Why is a reference to this particular company from the 3070s more valid than any other data from that era?

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #50 on: 08 July 2013, 16:06:48 »
Okay.  Why is a reference to this particular company from the 3070s more valid than any other data from that era?

What makes it special, is that I stumbled on it... Pure and simple...  Point out some other company from that era, that has no information to contradict the possibility that it might have existed in 3025, and I'll add it to the list of "Questionable" companies/locations... Show me some canon information that it did exist in 3025 (meaning I completely missed it), and I'll promote it to the "Confirmed" list...

I spent a lot of time building this list... Looking up references from original sources. Listing it in excel. Moving the data. Looking for holes. Looking for plugs for holes. Adding another source. Looking for holes... And so on... One of the sources I used was Sarna.net. Generally not enough to get something on the "Confirmed" side of the list, but enough to get it on the "Questionable" side... I'd pick a company. Look at where they had facilities. Try to weed out the ones that were too new (and finding a citable reason), or were owned by someone else, or whatever... If I couldn't find anything in the company entry, I'd look up the Mech. See if it mentioned when production began, or when the company was founded. If nothing there, I'd look up the world. See if that entry mentioned when the company moved on world... But since the world had a list of companies, I'd follow those links (and sometimes I'd need bread crumbs to get back to where I started)... Ravenna Electronics just happened to be an Inner Sphere company, that I stumbled onto, that has so little in the entry I added it to the "Questionable" list, in hopes someone would know more...

So far, the "Know more" has told me they couldn't have made the Mechs listed in the Sarna.net entry (which is obvious to me, as those variants don't appear on my list of available Mechs in 3025, which I compiled from the MUL)... Everything else has been speculation, based on absence of evidence.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #51 on: 08 July 2013, 16:10:35 »
Did this in another thread some time back, which is listed in my sig as well as the Google Docs excel doc for it. I'll have to have another look-see at your stuff, because I don't have much time right now, but I'm glad to see other folks interested in 3025 production.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #52 on: 08 July 2013, 16:18:32 »
Did this in another thread some time back, which is listed in my sig as well as the Google Docs excel doc for it. I'll have to have another look-see at your stuff, because I don't have much time right now, but I'm glad to see other folks interested in 3025 production.

Thanks, I downloaded a copy for myself... It looks like it will help most when I start looking to swap out variants.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #53 on: 08 July 2013, 16:23:59 »
Caz,

Quote from: Cazaril
Canonbie
Avanti Industries
- Sarna.net
* Zanadu Air Bus
* ACL-800 Comet Airline

These guys are originally sourced from TRO: Vehicle Annex & Revised version.
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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #54 on: 08 July 2013, 16:30:45 »
What makes it special, is that I stumbled on it... Pure and simple...  Point out some other company from that era, that has no information to contradict the possibility that it might have existed in 3025, and I'll add it to the list of "Questionable" companies/locations... Show me some canon information that it did exist in 3025 (meaning I completely missed it), and I'll promote it to the "Confirmed" list...

I spent a lot of time building this list... Looking up references from original sources. Listing it in excel. Moving the data. Looking for holes. Looking for plugs for holes. Adding another source. Looking for holes... And so on... One of the sources I used was Sarna.net.

Fair enough!  To me, it just looked like Raveena had been cherry picked from later sources and other data therein was being excluded, which I found confusing.  Thanks for clarifying!

Unfortunately, Sarna has a lot of erroneous production data up there.  I know you aren't interested in buying every Battletech sourcebook ever made, but it can be hard to separate the fan wishlists and hearsay up on that wiki from stuff that actually appeared in print.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #55 on: 08 July 2013, 18:33:52 »
Unfortunately, Sarna has a lot of erroneous production data up there.  I know you aren't interested in buying every Battletech sourcebook ever made, but it can be hard to separate the fan wishlists and hearsay up on that wiki from stuff that actually appeared in print.

Agreed... That's why Sarna.net was excluded from sources I would accept to promote something to "Confirmed". I don't trust their entries... Oh sure, they are good enough to get on the "Questionable" list, but that lists exists mainly for people who have the sourcebooks to help clarify (give them something to work on, instead of having to dig around trying to find companies... I figured I'd get more back that way)...

Dreyf's question about "LC-Furillo  Baltazar III" is a good example... Sarna.net has it listed, and this time without even so much as a citation of where it came from... It made the "questionable" list, but I really don't see it being promoted to the "confirmed" one... But until I know something more (Like this is some fan's personal company, and doesn't appear in any canon work), then it will hang out on the list... It doesn't harm anything to include it, as long as people remember that second list is only "possibles" and not "definites".

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #56 on: 08 July 2013, 23:22:47 »
now as there is  no actual proof that you are not crazy for starting this in the first place, can we put it on the questionable list?  :)

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #57 on: 08 July 2013, 23:39:52 »
Dreyf's question about "LC-Furillo  Baltazar III" is a good example... Sarna.net has it listed, and this time without even so much as a citation of where it came from... It made the "questionable" list, but I really don't see it being promoted to the "confirmed" one... But until I know something more (Like this is some fan's personal company, and doesn't appear in any canon work), then it will hang out on the list... It doesn't harm anything to include it, as long as people remember that second list is only "possibles" and not "definites".

I would argue that it should be removed from even the 'questionable' list.  Baltazar III is a planet and not a company.  It is not mentioned in any sourcebook as being connected at all to Furillo.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #58 on: 09 July 2013, 09:54:15 »
I would argue that it should be removed from even the 'questionable' list.  Baltazar III is a planet and not a company.  It is not mentioned in any sourcebook as being connected at all to Furillo.

Baltazar III Factory, is listed in Furillo's list of companies. When following the link, you discover that they are suppose to build the Firestarter, Ostroc and Marauder... So they are apparently a company (as well as a planet)... Maybe one that has the wrong name attached to it (I've seen that before, although rarely), or maybe associated with the wrong world... Maybe it's someone's personal company for their own universe (One of mine is Mythos Industries), and they thought it would be cool to have it listed online (which would explain why there is no citation)

I mined Sarna.net for as much as I could, but a lot of it went in the "Questionable" list.

The idea isn't to get focused on any one entry... If you know nothing/can't find anything, then move on to the next one (or one you do)...

Anyone making a list for themselves should let the "Questionable" list fall off, or make a conscious decision to deviate from the canon universe and include any of those listed...

Personally, I feel that most of them don't exist in 3025. Whether they haven't been built yet, or they are piles of rubble waiting to be rebuilt... If a couple of them get promoted and/or knocked out, then I have more information then I had... But I'm not so intent on doing either that I'll throw out names without giving them a chance.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #59 on: 09 July 2013, 11:08:38 »
Baltazar III is a world in the Circinus Federation that was described in Jihad sources as housing a secret BattleMech factory established by the Word of Blake. They shouldn't be producing anything prior to the 3060s.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #60 on: 09 July 2013, 12:27:31 »
Removed for duplication
« Last Edit: 09 July 2013, 12:30:18 by Cazaril »

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #61 on: 09 July 2013, 12:29:46 »
Baltazar III is a world in the Circinus Federation that was described in Jihad sources as housing a secret BattleMech factory established by the Word of Blake. They shouldn't be producing anything prior to the 3060s.

Now THAT is a usable piece of information... Thank you (sincerely)...

Which source? Jihad: Final Reckoning?, or Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents?

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #62 on: 09 July 2013, 12:36:27 »
Now THAT is a usable piece of information... Thank you (sincerely)...

Which source? Jihad: Final Reckoning?, or Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents?

Caz

It appeared in a number of them. The first mention was as a rumor in TRO: Project Phoenix, under the Marauder entry.  It's mentioned as being destroyed by the 2nd Free Worlds Guards in Field Manual: 3085.
« Last Edit: 09 July 2013, 12:38:02 by MadCapellan »

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #63 on: 09 July 2013, 12:57:42 »
If you run across the reference to it being established by Word of Blake, I'd appreciate the citation.

As for destroyed dates, while I appreciate that information too... Anything after 3028 (The beginning of the 4th Succession War) is irrelevant...

I'm sure this will break your heart... But I think Max got shafted by the writers in the Warrior series. He was originally written as this devious (granted some what egomaniacal) genius, who used covert operation and treachery, to offset his nations military weakness, in dealing with the superior military might of the Federated Suns... Warrior portrayed him as an egomaniacal idiot... So the outcome of the 4th Succession War will be vastly different in my universe (Starting with a bullet in Justin Xiang Allard's and Alexi Mallory's (AKA: Alexi Malenkov) heads, courtesy of a power hungry Tsen Shang finding them out)... And this from a guy who doesn't even like House Liao...

Which is why I'm interested in 3025 production... I need things before the war.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #64 on: 09 July 2013, 12:59:34 »
If you run across the reference to it being established by Word of Blake, I'd appreciate the citation.

Both of those sources state that.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #65 on: 13 July 2013, 17:22:22 »
In the questionable section for the Draconis Combine you have DeHuego and Freshet WarShip Design.  The only canon mention of DeHuego and Freshet that I have seen comes from the original House Kurita book and it is listed as DeHuego and Freshet DropShip Design and that the sprawling metropolis was destroyed, but no mention of what world it was located upon.

Also under the  questionable Draconis Combine for Nirasaki you have a New Age Systems Incorporated factory with the Spad as a product.  TRO3050U has the Spad built by NASI on Terra and no mention of Nirasaki.  TRO2750 does not mention a place of production.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #66 on: 13 July 2013, 17:54:54 »
Draconis Combine – House Kurita
Chatham
Stellar Trek
 - Objective Raids
* Invader Jumpship
* Merchant Jumpship
* Monolith Jumpship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Invader Jumpship
* Merchant Jumpship
* Monolith Jumpship
* Star Lord Jumpship

Lapida II
Nimakachi Fusion Products Ltd.
- TRO:3039
* SDR-5V Spider

Luthien
BBP Industries
- Objective Raids
* Excalibur Dropship
* Intruder Dropship
* Triumph Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Excalibur Dropship
* Intruder Dropship
* Triumph Dropship

Galileo Instruments
- Objective Raids
* Achilles Dropship
* Behemoth Dropship
* Triumph Dropship
- Dropships and Jumpships
* Achilles Dropship
* Behemoth Dropship
* Triumph Dropship  

Not sure if anyone pointed it out, but there are a few errors in the Kurita section that I see.

1.  Kurita does not produce the Monolith in DS&JS.
No faction in 3025 produces all 5 common JS models.
Kurita produces the other 4, but not the Monolith.
See Page 15 & 24 where StellarTrek is shown to produce the Merchant, Invader, & STARLORD, but not the Monolith.  Also in the Monolith description it clearly states that Kurita has lost the ability to produce the Monolith by 3025.
The confusion comes from an ObjRaids error that listed the Starlord instead of the Monolith.
This was further compounded by continuing that error in a later House Kurita sourcebook IIRC.

2.  In 3025 the Spider was only in production in the FWL at Temetagai, not in the DC at Lapida II.
This is confirmed in TRO3050 when it states that the FWL revamped production for Teddy K. even though only 14 Spiders were in production in the IS at that time.
The Lapida II factory appears to have come on line in the early 3050's when all the IS were sharing technical info to defeat the clans.

3.  The Triumph is not produced by Galileo in DS&JS, see your above listing, its at BBP.
The ship your missing is the Monarch class that is listed in DS&JS.

Hope this info helps.

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3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #67 on: 13 July 2013, 19:06:42 »
Not sure if anyone pointed it out, but there are a few errors in the Kurita section that I see.

Thanks for pointing those out... I'll assume that they were actually "cut and paste" errors, as in both cases the lists matched the Objective Raids list.

2.  In 3025 the Spider was only in production in the FWL at Temetagai, not in the DC at Lapida II.
This is confirmed in TRO3050 when it states that the FWL revamped production for Teddy K. even though only 14 Spiders were in production in the IS at that time.
The Lapida II factory appears to have come on line in the early 3050's when all the IS were sharing technical info to defeat the clans.

Thanks for pointing this out too... But again, we come back to, "you don't know for sure"...

While the numbers match (both TRO:3050 and HM:FWL state that NFP makes only 16 Spiders a year), it's possible that they are talking about only the Temetagai facility... And with Gunji no Kanrei Theodore Kurita likely being the motivating force behind the new SDR-7M design, it could be that he is hoping to revitalize the Lapida II factory and increase their production of a Mech they already make.

If Sarna.net's citation of Objectives: Draconis Combine can be trusted, they say about NFP "Founded during the glory days of the original Star League on the Free Worlds League world of Tematagi, like many corporations of the day, Nimakachi's influences spanned across entire breadth of the League. The Draconis Combine was the company's largest "foreign" market and in 2602, Nimakachi purchased the bankrupt Sendai mining complex on Lapida II, using the complex's mining tunnels as factory spaces. Nicknamed "Tematagi Minor" by many in the company, the subterranean facility proved to be a significant deterrent against raiding, military strategist instead suggesting any smart raiders would focus on hijacking the DropShips shipping the completed products off-world."

This suggests that they may have had a facility producing something as early as the early-mid 2600s

Then you have this from TRO:3039;

"The Free Worlds League managed to secure the Spider’s technical schematics from the ruins of the Terran Hegemony and tasked Nimakachi Fusion Products with building the design in exchange for Nimakachi’s exclusive control of Spider technical data. Nimakachi would later expand its Lapida II facility in the Draconis Combine to produce the design as well."

All of which suggest that between the beginning of the destruction wrought by the Succession Wars, and sometime before 3039, NFP was producing Spiders on Lapida II.

Then, and this isn't enough by itself, TRO:3039 and Objectives: Draconis Combine are the newer of the books (2009 and 2011 respectively), while TRO:3050 and TRO:3050U are older (1990 and 2007 respectively)... Although, having said that, this project has never been about which book trumps which, it's really about just getting a condensed list of sources so some sense can be made from the constant RetCon.

Ultimately, there isn't enough evidence to suggest that NFP wasn't producing Spiders on Lapida II in 3025, and a little too much that suggest they were, for me to pull the entry.

Caz
« Last Edit: 13 July 2013, 19:12:47 by Cazaril »

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #68 on: 13 July 2013, 19:58:19 »
Thanks for pointing this out too... But again, we come back to, "you don't know for sure"...
Actually, we can be pretty sure.  I'm not sure if you realize it so I'll go over the quick history.

The only reason Lapida-II aka Tematagi-Minor exists is due to an error in TRO:3055.

1.  We know for a fact that the FWL/NFP produced 16 Spiders a year in 3025 per HMSB.
2.  We know for a fact that in per both TRO3050's Nimakachi was still producing 16 Spiders total, those would be the 16 in the FWL, no room for any in the DC.
3.  Even Objective Raids has the only Spider production facility as being in the FWL.


Then along comes TRO3055 where someone decided to create a super-Spider AKA the Venom & seeing the names Nimakachi/Tematagi & thought it was a DC firm/planet & so listed the Venom as being produced there, not realizing that Tematagi was a FWL planet & NFP a FWL factory.


Conundrum:  How to fix this obvious error .......   "create" a secondary facility called "Tematagi-Minor" which didn't exist in any prior sourcebook.


Quote
this project has never been about which book trumps which, it's really about just getting a condensed list of sources so some sense can be made from the constant RetCon.
Its because you are trying to make some sense of this that I'm pointing all this out.
Its pretty clear there was no DC production in 3025 or 3050 but also pretty clear that there is production by 3055.

Which leads to the theory that it was probably some time just after the Outreach conference that expansion of the Lapida II mining tunnels factory was cranked up from minor factory to Battlemech/Spider factory & as soon as the 7M's were up & running the order to continue to expansion to include a Venom line came in.  If you check the Venom entry in TRO3055 you'll notice quite a bit of talk about expansion and NFP taking advantage of technology from the DC.


Quote
Ultimately, there isn't enough evidence to suggest that NFP wasn't producing Spiders on Lapida II in 3025, and a little too much that suggest they were, for me to pull the entry.
I hope the added info I provided will give some insight into the timeline of how things occurred.
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3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #69 on: 13 July 2013, 22:31:55 »
Actually, we can be pretty sure.  I'm not sure if you realize it so I'll go over the quick history.

The only reason Lapida-II aka Tematagi-Minor exists is due to an error in TRO:3055.

1.  We know for a fact that the FWL/NFP produced 16 Spiders a year in 3025 per HMSB.
2.  We know for a fact that in per both TRO3050's Nimakachi was still producing 16 Spiders total, those would be the 16 in the FWL, no room for any in the DC.
3.  Even Objective Raids has the only Spider production facility as being in the FWL.

1. Correct. But that is FWL production... And why would a book about FWL discuss DC production. The Kallon entry doesn't speak about the production in the CC or FS.

2. That could be oversight on the part of whoever wrote the fluff... Reports make mistakes. Historians make mistakes. Authors make mistakes... It's the whole reason CGL says that the newest publication has the correct data. It's a fact of life in BattleTech... It's why part of my original post was "All Sources are Flawed". I grant you, that undoubtably means that TRO:3039 is flawed too, but there is nothing newer that proves the Spider's entry is incorrect.

3. There are several Mechs other then NFP - Lapida II - Spider, that are not listed in the House books, or Objective Raids, and are only listed in 3039..

Earthwerks Incorporated - Tikonov - CTF-1X Cataphract
Kallon Industries - Nanking - RFL-3N Rifleman
Alshain Weapons - Alshain - PNT-9R Panther
Luthien Armor Works - Luthien - LNC25-02 Lancelot
Earthwerks Incorporated - Keystone - THG-10E Thug
StarCorps - Emris IV - WHM-6R Warhammer
Defiance Industries of Hesperus II - Hesperus II - FLS-7K Flashman

Just because they are listed no where else, doesn't mean that they are incorrect...

Then along comes TRO3055 where someone decided to create a super-Spider AKA the Venom & seeing the names Nimakachi/Tematagi & thought it was a DC firm/planet & so listed the Venom as being produced there, not realizing that Tematagi was a FWL planet & NFP a FWL factory.

Conundrum:  How to fix this obvious error .......   "create" a secondary facility called "Tematagi-Minor" which didn't exist in any prior sourcebook.

So someone mistakingly places a Spider factory on Lapida II and now that is part of "History", which is an annoying fact about BattleTech... The writers don't fix, they rewrite... And we get to deal with it.

Its because you are trying to make some sense of this that I'm pointing all this out.
Its pretty clear there was no DC production in 3025 or 3050 but also pretty clear that there is production by 3055.

Either you say "Only the original source is correct", in which case only the original sourcebooks are correct. Or you say "The most current books are correct", in which case TRO:3039 and Objectives: Draconis Combine are correct... You can't say "Only these books, written in the middle are correct"...

Whether you agree with the RetCon or not, TRO:3039 places production of Spiders on Lapida II by at least 3039. The history you are quoting me has been revised and rewritten.

Which leads to the theory that it was probably some time just after the Outreach conference that expansion of the Lapida II mining tunnels factory was cranked up from minor factory to Battlemech/Spider factory & as soon as the 7M's were up & running the order to continue to expansion to include a Venom line came in.  If you check the Venom entry in TRO3055 you'll notice quite a bit of talk about expansion and NFP taking advantage of technology from the DC.

"Which leads to the theory"... I've had this argument before... This your opinion/speculation/theory/whatever, which isn't enough...

There is canon evidence that a facility existed on Lapida II as far back as the 2600s. There is canon evidence that SDR-5V Spider was being produced by at least by 3039.

You're providing a theory based on entries missing from sources (which I grant you, were missing probably for a reason. Like NFP was never meant to be in the DC. But we don't get to decide that) and canon evidence, that according to the rules of what is canon, isn't canon anymore.

My opinion, is that it's seems pretty silly to build a facility, to produce the SDR-5V Spider, if all you are going to do is use the same technology that let you build the factory in the first place, to upgrade your design and have to re-tool the facility to accommodate it... Why not just build the factory to make SDR-7Ms to begin with...

But if you didn't have the technology to upgrade the Spider until <enter date>, then you wouldn't have had the technology to build the factory... And while I can maybe (just maybe) see the FWL being willing to let a design, that is exclusive to them by the way, outside their borders. What I can't see is them letting NFP pull one of their factories and move it... So that says that either the facility was already there, or they bought someone else's ruins and rebuilt it (which we have absolutely no proof of).

And I've said this time and again... I am not saying that Nimakachi Fusion Products Ltd. has a facility on Lapida II producing the SDR-5V Spider (I am not a writer for CGL and have no authority to make that statement)... I am saying that TRO:3039 says that Nimakachi Fusion Products Ltd. has a facility on Lapida II producing the SDR-5V Spider, and there is nothing more current to suggest otherwise (which would negate the canonicity of TRO:3039)... And until such canon evidence that specifically states , through date or cited link to a known dated event, when the Lapida II facility began to produce the SDR-5V Spider (or any other 'Mech if they produced something else there before the Spider), the entry will stand.

Caz
« Last Edit: 13 July 2013, 22:36:08 by Cazaril »

Hayden.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #70 on: 16 July 2013, 16:14:23 »
Regarding the Ceres Metals factory on St. Ives...

Objectives Raids (FASA Stock # 1665, published 1992) states:

"When St. Ives gained its independence from the Capellan Confederation, the St. Ives Ceres Metals Plant found itself with an unexpected problem.  Ceres had anticipated strong sales of its product, the VND-1R Vindicator 'Mech to the weapons-hungry St. Ives military."  The book then goes on to explain how St. Ives 'mech pilots refused to operate their Vindicators (sounds a bit Deus Ex Machina-y) so production shifted to the BJ-3, which  was developed with Davion technical assistance from the BJ-2 field refit.  This is on Pg. 149.

That said, this is the only reference to this factory's  production circa the 4th succession war that I am aware of.
Hayden

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #71 on: 18 July 2013, 14:27:29 »
Regarding the Ceres Metals factory on St. Ives...

Objectives Raids (FASA Stock # 1665, published 1992) states:

"When St. Ives gained its independence from the Capellan Confederation, the St. Ives Ceres Metals Plant found itself with an unexpected problem.  Ceres had anticipated strong sales of its product, the VND-1R Vindicator 'Mech to the weapons-hungry St. Ives military."  The book then goes on to explain how St. Ives 'mech pilots refused to operate their Vindicators (sounds a bit Deus Ex Machina-y) so production shifted to the BJ-3, which  was developed with Davion technical assistance from the BJ-2 field refit.  This is on Pg. 149.

That said, this is the only reference to this factory's  production circa the 4th succession war that I am aware of.

So what you are saying is that it should have existed in 3025, and they should have been producing Vindicators, correct?

With Objective Raids citing only the one line, it seems highly unlikely that they were producing anything else along with it.

Caz

Hayden.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #72 on: 18 July 2013, 18:32:40 »
So what you are saying is that it should have existed in 3025, and they should have been producing Vindicators, correct?

With Objective Raids citing only the one line, it seems highly unlikely that they were producing anything else along with it.

Caz

That's how I read it.

That said, Objectives Raids is a little hit-and-miss, and later sources like TRO 3039 make no reference to production of either 'mech on St. Ives at that point (3039).  The later Handbook: House Liao (Circa 3067) lists the Blackjack as being produced there.  It's cloudy as usual ;)
Hayden

hpackrat

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #73 on: 19 July 2013, 04:55:32 »
Out of curiosity, what are the most common brand items in the Sphere? I'm talking about stuff that any merc can get hold of no matter if he were in the FS, LC, DC, FWL, CC, Rasalhague, OA, MC, TC, etc. I know Pitban-240s, VOX-280s & Vlar-300s are common in every House. Not sure about Nissan-200 or 225s but the Sabre uses Nissan-225s & the ASF is found in every House so its a good bet. Magna Hellstar & Donal PPCs seem to exist in all Houses except mebbe in FWL in 3025. Perhaps the Parti-Kill PPC should be considered the most common since its used in Manticores & manufactured by Quikscell. What are the most popular & common brand items out there?

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #74 on: 19 July 2013, 10:12:59 »
Out of curiosity, what are the most common brand items in the Sphere?

Wow, that's a pretty hard question to answer, but I'll give it a shot... But you have to remember that this is based on all the sources I used. Nothing has been weeded out except the stuff that couldn't exist.... And to get on the list, it has to be present in at least 4 Houses (Great or Lesser)

Mechs
Archer (DC, FWL, LC, P-TC)
Griffin (FS, FWL, LC, P-TC)
Locust (CC, FS, FWL, LC, P-MC, P-OA, P-TC)
Marauder (FS, FWL, LC, P-TC)
Phoenix Hawk (DC, FS, FWL, LC)
Stinger (CC, FWL, LC, P-MC, P-OA, P-TC)
Wasp (CC, FS, FWL, LC, P-MC, P-OA, P-TC)

Aerospace
Lightning (CC, FS, LC, P-OA, P-TC)
Sabre (FS, LC, P-MC, P-TC)

Conventional
Note - Anything with a # after it, means that it's components are produced by various manufactures.
APC - Hover (CC, DC, FWL, LC) #
APC - Tracked (CC, DC, FWL, LC, P-TC) #
APC - Wheeled (CC, DC, FS, FWL, LC) #
Behemoth Heavy Tank (CC, Terra, DC, FS)
Demolisher Heavy Tank (CC, Terra, DC, FS)
LRM Carrier (CC, Terra, DC, FS, FWL, LC) #
Manticore Heavy Tank (CC, DC, FS, LC, P-MC)
Pegasus Scout Hover (CC, DC, FWL, LC)
Scorpion Light Tank (CC, DC, FS, FWL, LC)
SRM Carrier (CC, Terra, DC, FS, FWL, LC) #
Vedette Medium Tank (CC, DC, FS, LC, P-OA, P-TC)

For individual components... That's going to take me a little longer... Give me a bit and I'll be back with a list.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #75 on: 19 July 2013, 11:06:46 »
Out of curiosity, what are the most common brand items in the Sphere? I'm talking about stuff that any merc can get hold of no matter if he were in the FS, LC, DC, FWL, CC, Rasalhague, OA, MC, TC, etc. I know Pitban-240s, VOX-280s & Vlar-300s are common in every House. Not sure about Nissan-200 or 225s but the Sabre uses Nissan-225s & the ASF is found in every House so its a good bet. Magna Hellstar & Donal PPCs seem to exist in all Houses except mebbe in FWL in 3025. Perhaps the Parti-Kill PPC should be considered the most common since its used in Manticores & manufactured by Quikscell. What are the most popular & common brand items out there?

Ok, I'm back already....

Pretty much, at this point, I can't do it... The biggest reason is the list... The list is raw data. Meant to be whittled down by each GM to create his own production list... That means that each GM is going to have to sit down and decide; Which sources carry the most weight. Which production facilities really exist. What are these facilities really producing... And that means each list will be unique (or pretty close to it)...  I haven't done this for myself yet, but even if I had, my list would be neither official, nor would it be relevant to the BT Universe you play in.

Then, you'd have to reverse that list into a Objective Raids type format (not an easy feat), taking into consideration variants of units and who is producing the variant parts...

I tried to use the list I distilled from Objective Raids, but it is tainted with the newer technology, and doesn't have all the information from all the other sources... Making it highly incomplete.

That having been said... Figure there is a high likelihood that if they build the unit (like a Stinger), then they also build all the parts needed (Earthwerks STG Chassis, Chilton 360   Jump Jets, 120 Fusion Engine, Medium Laser, Machine Guns, Reise-100 armor), although the exact manufacturer might be different (Like I found a reference to StarSlab/1 armor in P-OA, 4 different comm systems, GM Lennox LTV Nissan and Vox 120 engines, Pitban LFT-20 and Rawlings 52 Jumpjets, 3 different machine guns, 4 different medium lasers, 3 different Tar/Track Systems... And this is just within Objective Raids)... So you might not find your brand, but you should find something that works.

As to certain brands... I have from Objective Raids
Magna Hellstar PPC (CC, DC, P-OA, P-TC)
Donal PPC (CC, DC)
Parti-Kill Heavy Cannon (LC, P-MC)

But again, with manufactures switching to ER-PPCs and the like, the list is skewed

Engines are somewhat worse. Not only did manufactures switch to XL engines, there are a ton of brands... It's really less about the popularity of the "Nissan 200", and more about the popularity of the "200 Series Fusion Engines"... (Note - The following is from Objective Raids).

I've got only Praxton Fusion Products Limited in the P-OA manufacturing the Nissan 200, but you can still pick up a 200 series engine made by these guys;

GM (CC, FS)
Pitban (LC)
Magna (P-TC)

Meanwhile, you'll be able to find one in these units

Mechs: MON-67 Mongoose, CN9-A Centurion, ENF-4R Enforcer, HBK-4G Hunchback, TLS-1B Talos, ANH-1A Annihilator
Aerospace: TRN-3T Trident, RGU-133E Rogue, CSR-V12 Corsair, LTN-G15 Lightning, TR-10 Transit

Finally, I think you are mis-interpreting something... "are common in every House." or "found in every house" doesn't mean that they are produced in every house... It simply means that they have some in their arsenal... Which means sometimes you'd have to make a raid over the border to acquire the parts you needed.

Caz
« Last Edit: 19 July 2013, 11:11:21 by Cazaril »

hpackrat

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #76 on: 19 July 2013, 12:46:58 »
I'm not sure I totally agree. There is a way to determine brand items that are common to every House & that's to look for the megacorps that have branches in most if not all the Houses or which Houses manufacture the same machines like the bugmechs. Megacorps like Quikscell, Starcorps & Raimei will likely have parts available for their products in whatever House that a merc works in. I doubt the Parti-Kill PPC is only manufactured in LC & P-MC when Quikscell is so prevalent around the Sphere.

Admittedly, parts from common IS machines that have different manufactures likely focuses on parts compatibility rather that a specific brand. That means certain brand parts will be compatible when it comes to repairs...

Hmm, I just had a thought. Basic weapons can have different calibers & designs since they were developed by different manufacturers but Helm Core weapons all come from the same data. Doesn't that mean that all Helm Core weapons are inter-compatible regardless of manufacturer?

Moonsword

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #77 on: 19 July 2013, 16:57:30 »
Not necessarily, no.  You'd be amazed how differently vendors can interpret the same set of specifications.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #78 on: 19 July 2013, 18:22:58 »
I'm not sure I totally agree. There is a way to determine brand items that are common to every House & that's to look for the megacorps that have branches in most if not all the Houses or which Houses manufacture the same machines like the bugmechs. Megacorps like Quikscell, Starcorps & Raimei will likely have parts available for their products in whatever House that a merc works in. I doubt the Parti-Kill PPC is only manufactured in LC & P-MC when Quikscell is so prevalent around the Sphere.

And according to Objective Raids, you'd be wrong...

I went through Objective Raids, and entered all the information into a spreadsheet... Faction, Planet, Company, Name of Component, Component Type, and Use (example: LC (Faction), Hesperus II (Planet), Defiance Industries of Hesperus II (Company), Defiance Killer (Name of Component), AC/10 (Component Type), Hatchetman (Use)... The spreadsheet has over 2000 entries (although some company/locations found to have been built after 3025 have been removed).

This gives me great flexibility in searching for stuff... Want to know who makes Stingers? Set the Sort to "Name of Component" (Mechs and other end products had their own listings as Components), "Faction", "Company". Then scroll down to the area were all the Stingers landed... Want all the manufactures of Stinger parts? Set the Sort to "Use", "Faction", "Company"... It's give you all the Stinger part manufacturers, while placing the Stingers themselves elsewhere (Under "Use", all Mechs are listed as "Mech")...

That is why it took me only about an hour between the post above it, and the one that talks about components... I spent time playing with the data, then typing it up... Which for me, was about an hour...

As to the companies you mentioned;

Quikscell: may have facilities all over, but they concern themselves primarily with Armor, Comm. Sys., Engine, Tar/Track Sys... Granted, they do make their own machine guns (20mm Gatling Gun), and they make the Crusher SH Cannon (AC/20) and Deleon 5 (AC/5) on Kalidasa... But they don't manufacturer any of the other weapons systems. Which suggests it is easier/cheaper for them to buy local for their other weaponry needs.

Starcorp: I have Starcorp on LC - Son Hoa - Refit and Repair, FS - Crofton - LGB-0W Longbow, and LC - Loburg - LGB-0W Longbow... But on review of Objective Raids, I can't refind the entry... Those could be additional notes from other sources.

Raimei: Who knows what they had, as they collapsed in 2814, which their holdings being picked up by; Jalastar Aerospace in the Federated Suns, Lockheed/CBM in the Lyran Commonwealth, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing in the Magistracy of Canopus, Pinard Protectorates Limited in the Taurian Concordat...

In all honesty, multi-house corporations are rare (using just Objective Raids), and I could only find the following;
Magna (FWL - Lopez, P-TC - Taurus)
Kallon Industries (CC - Nanking, FS - Kirklin, Talon, FWL - Asuncion, Bernardo, Loyalty, Thermopolis)
Earthwerks (CC - Grand Base, FWL - Asuncion, Bernardo, Calloway VI, Keystone)
Corean Enterprises (FS - New Avalon, FWL - Stewart)
Aldis (Terra, CC - Betelgeuse)
Quikscell (CC - Ares, FS - Layover, FWL - Kalidasa, Oliver, LC - Pandora)

Everyone else, while they may have more then one site, are all in one House or another.

For the most part, you see a single manufacturer using the same brand component, in a particular unit, even across houses, as long as they manufacture the component... But they don't always manufacture all the components. So Riflemans built by Kallon in the FWL seem to have imported (from Magna on Lopez) Magna Mk.II Medium Lasers, while those built in the FS seem to have imported (from Dynamico on Delavan) Martell Medium Lasers.

Caz

« Last Edit: 19 July 2013, 18:29:36 by Cazaril »

hpackrat

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #79 on: 20 July 2013, 01:34:49 »
Hmm, still, if they're using different brand components in the same design, that implies that those components are compatible which would ease maintenance issues. No need to raid for specific brand parts if a local component is a compatible substitute. Not sure this would apply to autocannons, missile launchers & their ammo though. Only armor, electronics & energy weapons. A FS CN9 Centurion isn't likely to find problems getting compatible parts in the FWL despite using different brand components.

Not necessarily, no.  You'd be amazed how differently vendors can interpret the same set of specifications.
Everybody still uses the same NATO calibers & AR15/M16 or AK parts tend to be cross-compatible despite different manufacturers. The manufacturers all used the same blueprints & were in a rush to sell SL weapons to their House Lords.

I doubt they had time to customize things though there might be problems with they had different measurement systems like when it came to the Russian centimeters adapting to American English inches.

Dreyf

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #80 on: 20 July 2013, 08:43:03 »
Remember that not everything would have been in the Helm core.  The Star League did not have the full range of weapons and each House would have designed their own to fill in the gaps.  Also having the same design built in different houses using different components does not mean that there are not differences in the manufacture to use a certain component that would make switching components problematic. 

IIRC there are also some mentions in the TROs of a component not working with a certain design and the manufacturer having to use another brand of the same component.

hpackrat

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #81 on: 20 July 2013, 13:14:27 »
Remember that not everything would have been in the Helm core.  The Star League did not have the full range of weapons and each House would have designed their own to fill in the gaps.  Also having the same design built in different houses using different components does not mean that there are not differences in the manufacture to use a certain component that would make switching components problematic. 
Then what weapon technologies did come from the Helm core? I was under the impression that ERPPC, GR, LBX, Ult5, ERLL & pulse lasers were all created form the blueprints found in the core. I can't see the Houses changing the original working designs when they had yet little experience with them.

IIRC there are also some mentions in the TROs of a component not working with a certain design and the manufacturer having to use another brand of the same component.
They still shoehorned a different component into design. That means they either changed the design, adapted the component, or that the component is compatible with design. Thus having a list of the most commonly available & compatible components around the Sphere would be a god-sent to any merc astech trying to repair or rebuild a machine.

Alexander Knight

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #82 on: 20 July 2013, 13:52:45 »
Take a look at the images in 3050U.  Start off with the UrbanMech and the Hatchetman.  Both mount an LBX-10, which was recovered from SL data.

Do those weapon mounts look ANYTHING alike?

Then compare the arm-mounted Ultra-5s of the JagerMech to the chest-mounted Ultra-5 of  the Hermes II.

Sorry, these weapons are not constructed identically.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #83 on: 20 July 2013, 14:24:44 »
Then what weapon technologies did come from the Helm core? I was under the impression that ERPPC, GR, LBX, Ult5, ERLL & pulse lasers were all created form the blueprints found in the core.

I would be willing to bet theory and mathematical equation, over straight up blue-print. So each manufacturer interpreted the information differently.

As to the rest of your questions..

I think this is one of those areas that BT simplified things, but reality would stop you cold.

I'll use engines (which I just asked about) as an example... According to Xotl (Rules Questions » TechManual (Moderator: Xotl))

I asked about swapping engines across type of vehicle.

"This is possible, but the following aspects must be exactly the same between units:

engine rating, engine type, heat sink type, and unit tonnage

So you could transfer a 200 Fusion with double heat sinks from one unit to another, as long as both units weighed the same (50-ton aero to a 50-ton tank, for instance)."

You try that in real life, and see how well that works... Because your Mazda engine is going to take some effort to make it work with that Ford over there... If it will even work at all...

And that isn't even the worst... Any part of the 'Mech, if built in real life, would probably NOT be compatible with any other 'Mech (hell, they'd probably, eventually do a different production model, and the old and the new ones wouldn't work together)..

Plus, could you imagine the logistical nightmare!?.. Most people like a extremely mixed unit, seldomly repeating the same mech in the same company... Could you image the record keeping if you had even just a company, with all different Mechs? Keeping track of each brand of armor. Heat sinks. Actuators. Mynomers. Internal Structure... The list goes on and on...

So BT simplified it, and said "Just buy points of repair armor"... "A large laser is a large laser is a large laser"...

But the fluff says differently, but the fluff is not game rules.

As to different components being used... I'd say that the end unit (Rifleman, Stinger, Wasp, Whatever) has been subtly redesigned to accommodate the new weapon manufacturer, and the production facility retooled... To replace that weapon with another brand, would require more time then replacing it with the same one... Think: Not as bad as changing the weapon to a different type, but worse then a straight swap...

Or, you can believe that the weapons manufacturer redesigned the weapon, so that it fits that unit. Kind of like an off-brand part for your car. It meets all the specs, and works just as good, but it's not a generic part... I think this would be more of a hassle, as the "Magna MkII" would now be a "Magna Mk.II - Rifleman"...

Either way, you are going to end up doing a lot more record keeping then if you just went with BT's simpler version... Although it would be more "realistic".

Caz
« Last Edit: 20 July 2013, 14:27:49 by Cazaril »

hpackrat

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #84 on: 22 July 2013, 06:19:32 »
Role-playing is gonna be a bitch, I see...

Sigma

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #85 on: 22 July 2013, 07:21:35 »
That's how I read it.

That said, Objectives Raids is a little hit-and-miss, and later sources like TRO 3039 make no reference to production of either 'mech on St. Ives at that point (3039).  The later Handbook: House Liao (Circa 3067) lists the Blackjack as being produced there.  It's cloudy as usual ;)


That's kind of a misnomer. The BJ-3 line was retooled in 3066 to make Phoenix Hawk 4L's. The Blackjacks are a separate BJ-O line apparently, though I could have sworn the only BJ-O plant they had was on Warlock. It pops up in both the Handbook and in the end-Jihad Objectives for the Caps.

This doesn't make sense for the year since Irian doesn't license out the BJ-O to Ceres until 3072 after they buy LAW's half of the rights.

Hayden.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #86 on: 22 July 2013, 09:24:51 »

That's kind of a misnomer. The BJ-3 line was retooled in 3066 to make Phoenix Hawk 4L's. The Blackjacks are a separate BJ-O line apparently, though I could have sworn the only BJ-O plant they had was on Warlock. It pops up in both the Handbook and in the end-Jihad Objectives for the Caps.

This doesn't make sense for the year since Irian doesn't license out the BJ-O to Ceres until 3072 after they buy LAW's half of the rights.

Yeah, but that's getting a bit further down the timeline, as the post is talking about 3025 production.  I was intending to establish the fact that the Blackjack was in fact in production on St. Ives.  Now, in response to your claim I checked out Objective Raids: Capellan Confederation (which is current to 3079) and that book lists the Blackjack as being in production on St. Ives, and the Blackjack OmniMech as being in production on Warlock.  So it would suggest that St. Ives is still producing the BJ-3?

Anyway, I dug a little deeper and pulled out TRO 3058 and found that the rights to the Blackjack originally came to LAW from Ceres St. Ives*, and that LAW initially manufactured BJ-2s until the plant was retooled to produce the BJ2-O, and then later LAW distributed the rights to Irian.  I'm not sure about Ceres Metals Works in the Confederation, but it seems that Ceres St. Ives* was producing the BJ2-O somewhere in the St. Ives Compact during this time, and splitting that production between themselves and the Fed Suns.  Anyway, if you want to talk about this some more please feel free to PM me, I don't want to wreak this thread by taking it wildly off-topic :)

Cazaril, the thread's yours.
Hayden

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #87 on: 25 January 2014, 04:40:54 »

In all honesty, multi-house corporations are rare (using just Objective Raids), and I could only find the following;
Magna (FWL - Lopez, P-TC - Taurus)
Kallon Industries (CC - Nanking, FS - Kirklin, Talon, FWL - Asuncion, Bernardo, Loyalty, Thermopolis)
Earthwerks (CC - Grand Base, FWL - Asuncion, Bernardo, Calloway VI, Keystone)
Corean Enterprises (FS - New Avalon, FWL - Stewart)
Aldis (Terra, CC - Betelgeuse)
Quikscell (CC - Ares, FS - Layover, FWL - Kalidasa, Oliver, LC - Pandora)

Everyone else, while they may have more then one site, are all in one House or another.


You missed a couple - Nimakatchi (FWL - Dalton, Tematagi + DC - Lapida II )
and
ATC (Alphard Trading Co) has a plant in the TC and part ownership on the Kendall plant in the FWL


Free Worlds League – House Marik


Stewart
Corean Enterprises
- HM:FWL 3025
* GOL-1H Goliath
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* LCT-1V Locust
- TRO:3039
* GOL-1H Goliath
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
- Objective Raids
* GOL-1H Goliath
* TBT-5N Trebuchet
* LCT-1V Locust


Also the Gotha is produced on Stewart, since 3019
(described in TRO 3075)
Agent #395, Vancouver, Canada

Dmon

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #88 on: 25 January 2014, 06:59:21 »
Thoughts on using Sarna.net as a source...
While I've used Sarna for a few things, this is not an adequate source, because I'm found that they will condense stuff (example - Entry "CN9-A Centurion", states "Demand for the Centurion was so pitched in the AFFS, Corean Enterprises licensed the CN9-A to Jalastar Aerospace on Panpour in 3047", and they cite Technical Readout: 3050, p. 116, and Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade, p. 54 for this... Now I can't comment on TRO:3050U, but TRO:3050 say "Corean Enterprises has recently begun production of the model CN9-D Centurion at its New Avalon factory, and retooling is proceeding feverishly at Jalastar Aerospace's Centurion plant on Panpour."... And those two things do not mean the same thing... The way I read it, JA was retooling their Centurion line to produce the CN9-D, not retooling to start production of Centurions... Add to that, the fact that House Davion-The Federated Suns lists the Centurion as a Jalastar product in 3025 AND in is listed in Objective Raids as a Jalastar product... It means Sarna is a bit unreliable.

Very nice work man, a note on using Sarna as a source though.. Spot a mistake or something that is a bit vague chip in and contribute. This whole project of yours is the kind of thing that would improve the wiki massively.

pensiveswetness

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #89 on: 25 January 2014, 20:03:52 »
Take a look at the images in 3050U.  Start off with the UrbanMech and the Hatchetman.  Both mount an LBX-10, which was recovered from SL data.

Do those weapon mounts look ANYTHING alike?

Then compare the arm-mounted Ultra-5s of the JagerMech to the chest-mounted Ultra-5 of  the Hermes II.

Sorry, these weapons are not constructed identically.

lets look at this from a Real World perspective when it comes to products and varients of products. As a GSE mechanic, the most common size tire used on US Navy Aviation Support equipment was a size 6.00/9. Now if i ran the SE Tire shop, then if that size tire is the most common size used in rebuilding SE Tire & Wheel assemblies, then why do i have order a dozen or more different Part Number/Cage Number/NIIN's? because though the size specs are the same, does not mean the product is the same or that one wheel assembly is interchangeable from one type of SE from another. A wheel assembly from a NC-10C MEPP can not be used on a NET-4 Engine Trailer. or a Tire from a A/S32A-32 Spotting Dolly cannot be used on a F-14. in Battletech mechanics, the same concept applies... maybe. and your right in your comparison between machines: the weapon will be assembled differently. but there is nothing that says you couldnt replace one manufacture type with another. making it work, is part of the time consumed in swapping one with another...

 

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