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Author Topic: Need help with Industry in 3025  (Read 12542 times)

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #30 on: 03 July 2013, 19:55:28 »
Dropships/Jumpships is in-character set in 3025, and it mentiones that Galileo Instruments is producing Achilles class ships at that time.

And more...

I'm about to add the Dropships and Jumpships information, I completely missed the chart from the book.

Thank You Drefy for pointing that out, and me to the correct page...

Caz

MadCapellan

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #31 on: 03 July 2013, 20:10:24 »
While I understand what you are saying Cazaril, As a person who got his start with a similar fan project, I think people are considerably more interested in what can be confirmed as in production than what is unverifiable. 

That it is possible that there was a Raveena Electronics making Chargers in 3025 is no different than it being possible that the Capellans were making Thunderbolts on Grand Base in 3025. Earthwerks has been established as having a factory at Grand Base, but there is no proof they produced T-bolts there.  Of course, there's nothing saying they didn't either, and it was a common Capellan 'Mech built by Earthwerks!

If players are interested in a list of manufacturing, they are going to be interested in what is confirmed, not what is hypothetically possible.

If fans are looking to add their own production centers, they'll do so to suit the needs of their home campaigns.

Your example of the Thug is a retcon.  You are claiming now that you would have been "wrong", but I'd say that until the retcon was published you'd have been right to leave it off.  If I said the Capellans have Earthwerks plants that could also be building Archers, and they do produce Archers in 3067, should you put a Capellan Archer plant on your list, or wait for proof in print?*

* - MadCapellan is in no way establishing or implying the Capellans were producing Archers in 3025 with this post.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #32 on: 03 July 2013, 20:21:54 »
And I get what you are saying... That is why the list was broken up into two parts...

The first is as confirmed as possible, and it requires proof to knock something off it (as you did with the Transit/Ceres Metals/Mujika Aerospace listing)

The second list is unconfirmed stuff or questionable stuff... It sits there until it has been proven to exist in 3025 or proven it doesn't exist (because it was built afterwards). But it still takes canon proof...

Those who only want the confirmed canon stuff, should just use the top stuff... Those that want to tweek the universe, we both know will do whatever... The "Questionable" list really is a "Looking for more information on" list...

But saying it doesn't exist, because no proof can be found that it does, isn't the same as it doesn't exist... As Dropships and Jumpships taught me about Galileo Instruments.

Caz

pensiveswetness

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #33 on: 04 July 2013, 00:09:47 »
oh boy... this is either going to be a marriage made in hell, or the greatest tag-team ever created since The Hart Foundation...

MADCAP, is it possible to use the Objective Raids materials as a basis for building a comfirmable list of manufactoring plants? by sighting only common succession War tech that was still being made at that time?

MadCapellan

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #34 on: 04 July 2013, 00:19:44 »
I'd say the original Objective Raids can make for a decent starting point.  Much of what appears in my fanbook, Objective Raids 3067, is pretty irrelevent to the 3025 era.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #35 on: 04 July 2013, 00:40:22 »
MADCAP, is it possible to use the Objective Raids materials as a basis for building a comfirmable list of manufactoring plants? by sighting only common succession War tech that was still being made at that time?

While you may have directed this to MADCAP, I'm going to throw my two cents in...

The problem with using Objective Raids as a single source for manufacturing plants, is that it was written (in game perspective) after both the Helm Memory Core and Dallas Memory Core have been discovered. Because these two items allowed the Inner Sphere not just to recover technology, but the ability to manufacture that technology, it taints Objective Raids with facilities that may not have existed in 3025... It's why I went with a multiple source, raw data approach to finding information... Does the list give a definitive "this was here, that was there"? No... But it allows each GM to interpret the list in their own way, giving them as much data to work with as possible...

So while you can use just Objectives Raids, I don't think you'll have as accurate a picture of the manufacturing ability of the Inner Sphere, as you would have if you consider all the sources I've included in this list...

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #36 on: 04 July 2013, 01:18:29 »
I don't think pensivesweetness was indicating that Objective Raids could be used as the sole source so much as it (or perhaps my fan project, I wasn't sure) could serve as one source amongst many that could help you.

MOrab46019

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #37 on: 04 July 2013, 06:24:29 »
I love both lists. More info the better. I only own Ob Raid book that cover 3050. I was hoping for a update book that would have cover 3055 and 3060. PDFs I guess cover this. Im not a fan of PDFs Just yet. THANK YOU for this list.

Sigma

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #38 on: 04 July 2013, 07:58:42 »
Hey Caz. I have a friend who's been working on a similar project. So far he's gotten all the old big sources done for mechs and aerospace fighters and is now working his way through the smaller scenario books and things while he starts up his charts for DS. His cap is about 3053 for this project IIRC. His mandate was "Present the info as it is, and where it's located. Any inferences are for the people using it to make."

It really put a lot of things into perspective for me. Like I hadn't realized that the Snakes didn't produce a single bug in 3025 (LAM's not withstanding). No wonder they were overflowing with Jenners and Panthers back in the day.

Might give you a jumpstart.

What kills me is I know there have to be spreadsheets like this for the current devs and factories and lines but it's not shared info. You just get some snippets of it in the MUL.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #39 on: 04 July 2013, 09:46:59 »
Hey Caz. I have a friend who's been working on a similar project.

It looks like we are both trying to invent the wheel, only from slightly different perspectives (he went with a "<this unit> is produced <here>" format, where I went with a "<this facility> builds <these units>" format)... 

I'll have to double check it against my list, and I'll probably hang on to it for his production notes (something I choose to weed out)... But considering we're both working from what looks like the same sources, we should pretty much have the same list.

Thanks for posting those for me.

Caz

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #40 on: 08 July 2013, 09:19:35 »
Shameless bump to see if anyone knows anything else.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #41 on: 08 July 2013, 09:25:03 »
Well, in the process of researching a question on the writers forums, I determined the Charger couldn't be produced by Raveena in 3025 - they received their license from LAW, who didn't have the rights to the Charger until they bought out Wells Technology in 3027.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #42 on: 08 July 2013, 10:43:47 »
Well, in the process of researching a question on the writers forums, I determined the Charger couldn't be produced by Raveena in 3025 - they received their license from LAW, who didn't have the rights to the Charger until they bought out Wells Technology in 3027.

The LAW/Wells buy out was one of those "Some companies that change hands in the next 5 years due to take-overs and/or incompetence, have already been swapped.", I mentioned at the very top... So technically LAW wouldn't have had the right (more then likely) to re-license it to Ravenna.

But that doesn't say that Wells Technology didn't, and when LAW bought them out they also got the licensing agreements, which they honored... Furthermore, the Wells/Ravenna association could have been how LAW became associated with Ravenna in the first place. They sort of inherited the relationship.

Furthermore the license that is mentioned in ECAT 35122 TRO:3050U, pag. 86, 4th paragraph, according to Baldur Mekorig, is for the -1A9 and -2A2 models... Supposedly (according to Sarna.net), Objectives: The Clans, on pages 16 and/or 21 (seems the more likely) states that Ravenna got their licenses for these two models in 3067... But nothing says that Ravenna didn't exist in 3025 and nothing says that they didn't produce the -1A1 (or something else) back then... All you have done is prove that LAW couldn't have been the source of their license, because they didn't own the rights to the Charger at that time...

To me, that is still absence of evidence being used as evidence of absence, and speculation being presented as fact.

I'm also sorry if you feel I'm being unreasonable about this. I posted this online, because I'm aware that there are people out there with more of the canon resources, and they know the material way better then me... But a belief that people might know more then me, is not a reason not to hold their information to the same test as I held each entry as I was making this list.... Also If you'll notice, those people who could provide proof, I changed things. So it's not that I'm unwilling to listen... But even Baldur Mekorig's original post said "My opinion:"... And if you look at it one way, my version of Ravenna's history (that they got the license from Wells, before the LAW take-over) has just as much canon support, as Ravenna not making the Charger at all in 3025... I'm not saying that is what happened, I'm just saying there is as much proof of it.

Which, as I've said before, means the entry stays on the list, and hopefully people move on to some other entry and see what else they can dig up on that one.

Caz


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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #43 on: 08 July 2013, 11:05:26 »
My friend, if you want Raveena to make the CGR-1A1 Charger in 3025, you're more than welcome to do whatever you like in your game, but I think assuming they make it in 3025 because they make it in 3067 is a little silly.

In order for us to believe Raveena Electronics to produce the CGR-1A1 Charger in 3025, we must make the following assumptions:

1. - That Raveena Electronics existed at all, when no source has indicated they do
2. - That they were able to license the design from Wells Technologies, when Wells was only surviving on exporting the already rather undesirable Charger chassis.
3. - That for some reason, the license from Wells did not include 2A2 and 1A9 Chargers.
4. - That they subsequently would have to license those models from LAW

You'll have to excuse me for being incredulous, but that's a rather large number of assumptions to make to support an idea that we have no evidence for.

Does Earthwerks on Grand Base make Archers in 3025?  They make them in 3067.  There's no source that says they didn't make them in 3025.  We can very easily make this same assumption about a whole host of 'Mech chassis produced later and just arbitrarily roll them back into time periods where they were never mentioned, but that seems to be ignoring the weight of canon that infers they didn't exist.

Canon sourcebooks don't make a habit of spelling out what doesn't exist, because until it's mentioned, it didn't exist for the authors.  Surely you understand that.

Compiling a list of what is confirmed in production in 3067 and then assuming it applies to 3025 isn't a particularly accurate way to go about things.  My intention is not to discredit your work.  I think it's great that you are gathering this information for fans to use as a resource.  It just feels arbitrary that only Raveena's Charger line is singled out for this subjective benefit of the doubt, and not the dozens of production lines of classic 'Mechs across the Inner Sphere in the 3060s and 3070s. 
« Last Edit: 08 July 2013, 11:10:20 by MadCapellan »

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #44 on: 08 July 2013, 13:18:41 »
And you are missing the whole point of where it is at... It's under "Questionable", and not under the Outworld Alliance entry, because we have no proof it did or didn't exist... It's not singled out for special treat. I placed it where all the others that I couldn't find canon source material as to whether or not they existed, and stated that I needed canon proof to either promote them to confirmed or knock them out all together...

That canon proof would come in the form of "Ravenna Electonics was founded in <date after 3025>", or "Ravenna Electronic was build to start production of the -1A9", or "Ravenna Electronics was formed after the <Fourth Succession War, before the Jihad, Name your event>"

As for using the newer date stuff, to make a list of possible companies that might have existed, nothing is wrong with that... Because I never said because it existed in 3067 in DID exist in 3025, I said that because it existed in 3067 it COULD HAVE existed in 3025.

1. - That Raveena Electronics existed at all, when no source has indicated they do

We have no founding date (or description), so we have no proof they did or didn't exist at this time... But we do know they existed later.... And while I'm not making the assumption they do exist in 3025, you are making the assumption they don't, based on a absence of evidence.

2. - That they were able to license the design from Wells Technologies, when Wells was only surviving on exporting the already rather undesirable Charger chassis.

So it's not possible that a company that is struggling to survive, to license their product to an area that has only one facility capable producing Assault class Mechs, so they could live off the licensing fees? Because to my way of thinking, if you have Atlases, it's easy to dismiss the Charger, but when the best you product is the Merlin (and 20 tonners after that), I think the Charger might look pretty good.

3. - That for some reason, the license from Wells did not include 2A2 and 1A9 Chargers.

The original license from Wells could not have included those models, because as Baldur Mekorig pointed out, Acording to the MUL, the -1A9 model was designed in 3034, and the -2A2 in 3064... How do you license something that wasn't even designed yet... But it doesn't mean that a desperate company like Wells wouldn't have agreed to letting them have any upgrades in the future. Some kind of "upgrade" clause in the contract.

4. - That they subsequently would have to license those models from LAW
Maybe they were on good terms. Maybe there was an upgrade clause. Maybe Ravenna Electronics was really interested in getting their hands on a better model, and with the Clans breathing down everyones neck, LAW felt it was a good idea to have as many Chargers as possible being produced and ready for war. Maybe LAW just wanted the money...

We don't know if/why... But what we do know, is that at some point LAW was willing to license the -1A9 and the -2A2. Why is it so hard to believe that a struggling Wells would have licensed the -1A1? I'm not saying they did, I'm saying they could have.

You'll have to excuse me for being incredulous, but that's a rather large number of assumptions to make to support an idea that we have no evidence for.

I'm not the one making assumptions... I'm the one asking for some kind of canon proof, one way or the other, that will definitively say yes or no... What I'm getting, is people saying that because it wasn't listed in an earlier piece, it didn't exist, which does happen to be a speculation, because there is no proof it wasn't an omission...

Does Earthwerks on Grand Base make Archers in 3025?  They make them in 3067.  There's no source that says they didn't make them in 3025.  We can very easily make this same assumption about a whole host of 'Mech chassis produced later and just arbitrarily roll them back into time periods where they were never mentioned, but that seems to be ignoring the weight of canon that infers they didn't exist.

Do you see Archers on my Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Grand Base entry?

Better yet... What do you see in the entry for Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Tikonov? You see that HL:CC 3025 - states it exists, but no description of facility or production. You see that TRO:3039 states that they build CTF-1X Cataphract. And you see "Notes – HL:CC suggests that the Tikonov facility may have produced Thunderbolts and Vindictors, while Sarna.net suggest that at one time it may have produced the Thunderbolt, Thug, Griffin, Stinger, Bombardier, Vindicator. Clarification is need as to what it actually produced in 3025."...

So I have evidence that they may have created that whole lost of Mechs, but I'm still asking for clarification... Including for the Thunderbolts and Vindicators... Because I don't have and proof of what they made... And I'm not making any assumptions either.

Canon sourcebooks don't make a habit of spelling out what doesn't exist, because until it's mentioned, it didn't exist for the authors.  Surely you understand that.

I'm not asking if Bob's Mech-a-lot Factory might have existed on Planet X... And then saying because the authors haven't said it doesn't, that it does... I'm asking for proof of when a canon company, on a canon world, making a canon product was founded and if in/before 3025, what did they produce?... Surely you understand that those are not the same question.

Compiling a list of what is confirmed in production in 3067 and then assuming it applies to 3025 isn't a particularly accurate way to go about things.

And by no means it that what I did... I compiled a list from as many sources between 3025 and 3054 as I could find, then presented the raw data (including a list of suspect companies) for others to help me whittle out any inappropriate companies that may have gotten through my research...

I also never once said that this was "Objectives Raid - 3025"... If anything, I've tried to make it clear that this is nothing more then a list that I need help on, which will become my personal Objectives Raid - 3025, which more then likely no one but me will ever see.

I've tried very hard not to make any assumptions in this list (other then notes to self), because people can use the list as a basis for their own universe, without having to swim through any of my own prejudices.

My intention is not to discredit your work.

I never thought you were... And since this is nothing more then a list, with citations mostly noted, I'm not even sure you could... It's not that kind of project.

It just feels arbitrary that only Raveena's Charger line is singled out for this subjective benefit of the doubt, and not the dozens of production lines of classic 'Mechs across the Inner Sphere in the 3060s and 3070s.

Again... Ravenna isn't being singled out... It is one of many in my "Questionable" list. And I wouldn't accept absence of proof being proof of absence for any of them... It is only being singled out by people who insist on making the assumption that it didn't exist, because there is no canon proof that it did...

Lets take FS – New Syrtis - Johnston Industries as an example... I knocked it out (although I didn't strike through it) because I found a reference that it wasn't built until after 4th Succession War... Adequate canon proof of when it was built and that it couldn't have existed in 3025... But no one has produced that kind of proof for Ravenna Electronics...

Not only that, but people seem to equate "Didn't produce the Charger" with "didn't exist"... Because that is another assumption...

So maybe Ravenna Electronics did make the Charger. Maybe there relationship started out as a producer of Dalban HiRez Targeting and Tracking components... Maybe they sold them to Wells in 3025, and then LAW afterwards. Maybe that relationship was what prompted LAW to license the Charger later on... Again, not saying this happened, but we don't know how the relationship started... But that would mean that Ravenna Electronics was in business in 3025, making military hardware, and would go on my list... It's why the "Product" is "Possible". Because I am willing to accept that they may not have produced the product I listed, but they may have produced something else just as important (like the T&T components)...

Currently, I don't believe there is any evidence, one way or the other, to either promote Ravenna to the Outworld Alliance entry, or knock it completely off the list... Maybe in the future, someone with authority will write some piece of canon information/story, that gives us some kind of founding date... Then we'll have our answer...

Until then, saying it didn't exist, does just as big of a disservice as saying that it did... Because neither side has any canon proof (other then absence of proof)

Caz

MadCapellan

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #45 on: 08 July 2013, 13:28:06 »
Do you see Archers on my Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Grand Base entry?

No, which is precisely why I brought it up.  It is listed neither in the main section or the questionable section, despite being produced there in Objectives: Capellan Confederation.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #46 on: 08 July 2013, 13:49:49 »
No, which is precisely why I brought it up.  It is listed neither in the main section or the questionable section, despite being produced there in Objectives: Capellan Confederation.

Because I only went with sources up to Objective Raids 3054 perspective (Translation: I had Objective Raids... Although I did buy TRO:3039 for this project)...

There is a certain point where the Inner Spheres production has been changed so much from what it was in 3025, that the sources become useless... All the original 3025 stuff carry a lot of weight, but as it has been point out time and again, it has incorrect information and omissions... I feel the same way about TRO:3039 and Objective Raids... So the idea was to gather as much raw data as possible and ask for people to help catch my errors and omissions...

Then I'll go make my list (whittling out the production I don't think is correct) and others can go make theirs.

What I'm not willing to accept though, is that your statement of (correct me if I'm wrong) "I couldn't find any information that Ravenna Electronics existed in 3025 and/or produced the Charger in 3025" is more correct then my statement of "We don't know enough about the history of Ravenna Electronics to make a decision of when it was started, or what it produced and when. So lets just leave it in the "Questionable" ("needs more information") list, until we find out more"... I'm not even arguing that it existed in 3025. I'm arguing that we lack enough information to say whether or not it did exist in 3025.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #47 on: 08 July 2013, 14:04:55 »
There is a certain point where the Inner Spheres production has been changed so much from what it was in 3025, that the sources become useless...

That's exactly what I've been saying.  I'm not sure why the Charger reference, which comes from two canon products, one set in 3071 (TRO3050U), and the other set in 3079 (Objectives Clans), gets included, but the Archer reference or others gets excluded.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #48 on: 08 July 2013, 14:34:35 »
That's exactly what I've been saying.  I'm not sure why the Charger reference, which comes from two canon products, one set in 3071 (TRO3050U), and the other set in 3079 (Objectives Clans), gets included, but the Archer reference or others gets excluded.

It isn't a "Charger" reference... It's a "Ravenna Electronics" reference... It may seem the same thing, but it's not.

As to where it came from, I stumbled on it while I was looking up the world Ramora on Sarna.net, and found it listed in their list of companies... So it became a "Possible Company", making a "Possible Product"...

In the end, I'm mostly concerned with confirming it existed in 3025, with what it produced being a secondary issue... But everyone seems to have gotten hung up on the "Charger" aspect, along with knocking it off the list, instead of just accepting we don't have enough information to make that call.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #49 on: 08 July 2013, 14:35:58 »
It isn't a "Charger" reference... It's a "Ravenna Electronics" reference... It may seem the same thing, but it's not.

Okay.  Why is a reference to this particular company from the 3070s more valid than any other data from that era?

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #50 on: 08 July 2013, 16:06:48 »
Okay.  Why is a reference to this particular company from the 3070s more valid than any other data from that era?

What makes it special, is that I stumbled on it... Pure and simple...  Point out some other company from that era, that has no information to contradict the possibility that it might have existed in 3025, and I'll add it to the list of "Questionable" companies/locations... Show me some canon information that it did exist in 3025 (meaning I completely missed it), and I'll promote it to the "Confirmed" list...

I spent a lot of time building this list... Looking up references from original sources. Listing it in excel. Moving the data. Looking for holes. Looking for plugs for holes. Adding another source. Looking for holes... And so on... One of the sources I used was Sarna.net. Generally not enough to get something on the "Confirmed" side of the list, but enough to get it on the "Questionable" side... I'd pick a company. Look at where they had facilities. Try to weed out the ones that were too new (and finding a citable reason), or were owned by someone else, or whatever... If I couldn't find anything in the company entry, I'd look up the Mech. See if it mentioned when production began, or when the company was founded. If nothing there, I'd look up the world. See if that entry mentioned when the company moved on world... But since the world had a list of companies, I'd follow those links (and sometimes I'd need bread crumbs to get back to where I started)... Ravenna Electronics just happened to be an Inner Sphere company, that I stumbled onto, that has so little in the entry I added it to the "Questionable" list, in hopes someone would know more...

So far, the "Know more" has told me they couldn't have made the Mechs listed in the Sarna.net entry (which is obvious to me, as those variants don't appear on my list of available Mechs in 3025, which I compiled from the MUL)... Everything else has been speculation, based on absence of evidence.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #51 on: 08 July 2013, 16:10:35 »
Did this in another thread some time back, which is listed in my sig as well as the Google Docs excel doc for it. I'll have to have another look-see at your stuff, because I don't have much time right now, but I'm glad to see other folks interested in 3025 production.

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Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #52 on: 08 July 2013, 16:18:32 »
Did this in another thread some time back, which is listed in my sig as well as the Google Docs excel doc for it. I'll have to have another look-see at your stuff, because I don't have much time right now, but I'm glad to see other folks interested in 3025 production.

Thanks, I downloaded a copy for myself... It looks like it will help most when I start looking to swap out variants.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #53 on: 08 July 2013, 16:23:59 »
Caz,

Quote from: Cazaril
Canonbie
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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #54 on: 08 July 2013, 16:30:45 »
What makes it special, is that I stumbled on it... Pure and simple...  Point out some other company from that era, that has no information to contradict the possibility that it might have existed in 3025, and I'll add it to the list of "Questionable" companies/locations... Show me some canon information that it did exist in 3025 (meaning I completely missed it), and I'll promote it to the "Confirmed" list...

I spent a lot of time building this list... Looking up references from original sources. Listing it in excel. Moving the data. Looking for holes. Looking for plugs for holes. Adding another source. Looking for holes... And so on... One of the sources I used was Sarna.net.

Fair enough!  To me, it just looked like Raveena had been cherry picked from later sources and other data therein was being excluded, which I found confusing.  Thanks for clarifying!

Unfortunately, Sarna has a lot of erroneous production data up there.  I know you aren't interested in buying every Battletech sourcebook ever made, but it can be hard to separate the fan wishlists and hearsay up on that wiki from stuff that actually appeared in print.

Cazaril

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #55 on: 08 July 2013, 18:33:52 »
Unfortunately, Sarna has a lot of erroneous production data up there.  I know you aren't interested in buying every Battletech sourcebook ever made, but it can be hard to separate the fan wishlists and hearsay up on that wiki from stuff that actually appeared in print.

Agreed... That's why Sarna.net was excluded from sources I would accept to promote something to "Confirmed". I don't trust their entries... Oh sure, they are good enough to get on the "Questionable" list, but that lists exists mainly for people who have the sourcebooks to help clarify (give them something to work on, instead of having to dig around trying to find companies... I figured I'd get more back that way)...

Dreyf's question about "LC-Furillo  Baltazar III" is a good example... Sarna.net has it listed, and this time without even so much as a citation of where it came from... It made the "questionable" list, but I really don't see it being promoted to the "confirmed" one... But until I know something more (Like this is some fan's personal company, and doesn't appear in any canon work), then it will hang out on the list... It doesn't harm anything to include it, as long as people remember that second list is only "possibles" and not "definites".

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #56 on: 08 July 2013, 23:22:47 »
now as there is  no actual proof that you are not crazy for starting this in the first place, can we put it on the questionable list?  :)

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #57 on: 08 July 2013, 23:39:52 »
Dreyf's question about "LC-Furillo  Baltazar III" is a good example... Sarna.net has it listed, and this time without even so much as a citation of where it came from... It made the "questionable" list, but I really don't see it being promoted to the "confirmed" one... But until I know something more (Like this is some fan's personal company, and doesn't appear in any canon work), then it will hang out on the list... It doesn't harm anything to include it, as long as people remember that second list is only "possibles" and not "definites".

I would argue that it should be removed from even the 'questionable' list.  Baltazar III is a planet and not a company.  It is not mentioned in any sourcebook as being connected at all to Furillo.

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #58 on: 09 July 2013, 09:54:15 »
I would argue that it should be removed from even the 'questionable' list.  Baltazar III is a planet and not a company.  It is not mentioned in any sourcebook as being connected at all to Furillo.

Baltazar III Factory, is listed in Furillo's list of companies. When following the link, you discover that they are suppose to build the Firestarter, Ostroc and Marauder... So they are apparently a company (as well as a planet)... Maybe one that has the wrong name attached to it (I've seen that before, although rarely), or maybe associated with the wrong world... Maybe it's someone's personal company for their own universe (One of mine is Mythos Industries), and they thought it would be cool to have it listed online (which would explain why there is no citation)

I mined Sarna.net for as much as I could, but a lot of it went in the "Questionable" list.

The idea isn't to get focused on any one entry... If you know nothing/can't find anything, then move on to the next one (or one you do)...

Anyone making a list for themselves should let the "Questionable" list fall off, or make a conscious decision to deviate from the canon universe and include any of those listed...

Personally, I feel that most of them don't exist in 3025. Whether they haven't been built yet, or they are piles of rubble waiting to be rebuilt... If a couple of them get promoted and/or knocked out, then I have more information then I had... But I'm not so intent on doing either that I'll throw out names without giving them a chance.

Caz

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Re: Need help with Industry in 3025
« Reply #59 on: 09 July 2013, 11:08:38 »
Baltazar III is a world in the Circinus Federation that was described in Jihad sources as housing a secret BattleMech factory established by the Word of Blake. They shouldn't be producing anything prior to the 3060s.

 

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