[OOG] Battle for Hoff - Queen's Gambit accepted

[hive_angel]

Got one, now need to get the other three, but might as well roll your initiative.

[sentinemodo]

I'll try to make them for you tommorrow, depending on how busy the day will be.

[hive_angel]

I know my Griffin is hot so - 1 M. His profile is 5/8/5, but I can only just a maximum of 3 hexes (Do to the permanent damage of the scenario), does this bring my jump movement to 2 hexes?

[sentinemodo]

no, jump point are not affected by temperature

[sentinemodo]

that's illegal move.
you need to jump the shortest path.
So if you want to land in that hex - this would be 2 hex travel only

[hive_angel]

Adjusted.

[sentinemodo]

just wondering ... there is no way for me DFA that grifin, nor land behind him, and kick his head?

[hive_angel]

I found this passage in TW which clears it up as impossible.


TW P. 144
A ’Mech standing in Depth 1 water may make any physical attack, provided the unit meets the normal requirements for each type of attack. However, the physical attack cannot be made against a unit that is underwater, unless the attack begins underwater as well. For example, a ’Mech standing in Depth 1 water adjacent to a submerged submarine in Depth 1 water can only make a kick attack, since the kick attack occurs
completely underwater. The ´Mech cannot make any other attack, including a charge or death from above attack, against the adjacent submarine because a portion of the attack would take place outside the water.

Your Griffins don't have the jump movement to reach my Griffin, however your Wasp would be able to reach and make a kick attack only.

[sentinemodo]

that would also make wasp voulnerable to punch attack from griffin if I read it correctly?

[sentinemodo]

and actually both griffins have the jump capability (5 hexes remember?) to reach him. (one would land 0711 and one in 0811.

do you want to change your griffin move based on knowing that such attacks would be possible?

[hive_angel]

My Griffin is in 0708 how would 0711 and 0811 be able to do anything to me?

You need to be in 0607, 0707, or 0808 to be able to make physical attack. Weapons fire LOS is blocked because I am submerged.

[sentinemodo]

because I'm stupid :)
I marked your griffin as move to 0810 despite reading 0708 (twice) :)
don't mind me LOL

[hive_angel]

I see your lolz. Are you good with your current move then?

[sentinemodo]

I think I'll try the kick then - just for the kicks ;)

One more thing, what about firing an underwater weapon?
1. there is always LOS between adjacent hexes, so potentially I could shot if I land beside you.
2. is there a similar rule for shooting stanrd weapon underwater? I have SRM 2 on the leg

[sentinemodo]

And now it got interesting, cause I failed PSR :P need to read up the falling damage

[hive_angel]

1. there is always LOS between adjacent hexes, so potentially I could shot if I land beside you.

Yes, but the weapon would need to be in the water.

2. is there a similar rule for shooting stanrd weapon underwater? I have SRM 2 on the leg

Under water weapons loose range, but short range weapons firing adjacent will fire normally.

[hive_angel]

For reference PSR for depth 01 is -1 and depth 02 is +0. I see you fell in 0810 so you have to calculate your damage x3 for falling from level 1 to depth02 (battlemechs are one level higher than the terrain when determining fall level) - 50% for only half damage in water.

I am not sure if you can stand back up with your last two jump movement points, but I don't think you can since the jump jets would be submerged.

Besides your last move was illegal, once you jump into 0810 your jump jets will be submerged and you can't jump again. However, since your goal was to get to 0808, you can still move there and fail the test as you have. You can fire the laser, but not the srm2. Plus it is laser or punch as well.

Falling in 0808 would give you damage x2 - 50%.

[sentinemodo]

The move was legal - you don't roll PSR for the hexes you passes by during the jump.
I land (and fall) near the Griffin.

I understand, that I have falling damage of 2 (tonnage of 20/10) times 1 (levels fallen plus 1) divided by 2 (damage in water) -> equal 1

scary!

all right, rolling the new facing and damage location. I'll be fully submerged after this (laying in level 1 depth)

[sentinemodo]

adjusted, Wasp lays just near of griffin, guess, I'll be punching instead of kicking

ps. sorry for a delay, I was having real busy days lately, and I am going for a two days of integrational event tommorow, I might be not sober enough to post so expect more delays, but, I'll try anyway.

[hive_angel]

I moved

I am still undecided on your jump movement path.

You traveled 1212 -> 0810 (4MP) -> 0808 (2MP)

Starting at 1212 -> 1112 OK --> 1011 OK --> 0911 OK --> 0810 --> OK However, 0810 is Water Depth 02. This gives two points, point 01 you entered a Water Depth 02 hex which requires a PSR and point 02 once you enter a Water Depth 02 with a jumping mech your jump jets are submerged thus ending your movement.

However your original target was my Griffin so jump to 0808.

Adjusted path
Starting at 1212 -> 1112 OK --> 1011 OK --> 0911 OK --> 0909 OK (You jump over 0910 which is Water Depth 01) --> 0808 You enter Water Depth 01 and fail the PSR thus ending your movement in the prone position. Before your fall you started in 0909 (Level 0, but considered Level 1 for determining falling damage) you jump in 0808 which is Water Depth 01. The difference from Level 1 to Depth 1 should be 2 Levels fallen. This should double your damage then divide by half as you fell in water. I'll check this with the rules guys to make sure.

Plus I found you add +1 to the PSR per level above 1 fallen to avoid damaging the mechwarrior. If you fell 2 levels you would have needed a 6 to avoid damage which you rolled a 5.

I'm just making sure everything is correct as I feel there are parts missing.

Here is the questions I asked to sort this out for my understanding.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,34021.0.html

[guardiandashi]

I moved

I am still undecided on your jump movement path.

You traveled 1212 -> 0810 (4MP) -> 0808 (2MP)

Starting at 1212 -> 1112 OK --> 1011 OK --> 0911 OK --> 0810 --> OK However, 0810 is Water Depth 02. This gives two points, point 01 you entered a Water Depth 02 hex which requires a PSR and point 02 once you enter a Water Depth 02 with a jumping mech your jump jets are submerged thus ending your movement.

However your original target was my Griffin so jump to 0808.

Adjusted path
Starting at 1212 -> 1112 OK --> 1011 OK --> 0911 OK --> 0909 OK (You jump over 0910 which is Water Depth 01) --> 0808 You enter Water Depth 01 and fail the PSR thus ending your movement in the prone position. Before your fall you started in 0909 (Level 0, but considered Level 1 for determining falling damage) you jump in 0808 which is Water Depth 01. The difference from Level 1 to Depth 1 should be 2 Levels fallen. This should double your damage then divide by half as you fell in water. I'll check this with the rules guys to make sure.

Plus I found you add +1 to the PSR per level above 1 fallen to avoid damaging the mechwarrior. If you fell 2 levels you would have needed a 6 to avoid damage which you rolled a 5.

I'm just making sure everything is correct as I feel there are parts missing.

Here is the questions I asked to sort this out for my understanding.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,34021.0.html

big misunderstanding here.  you do not pass through hexes terrain while jumping you pass OVER the terrain.

the best way to think of it is imagine for a moment you are mister battlemech, when walking and running you behave as if you are a normal person for movement, when you jump, you LEAP from where you are to where you want to be (if you can reach the distance and there is no impassable obstructions in the way) your take off in the start location and land in the destination hex you do NOT go hoppy hoppy hex to hex, its 1 big jump.

[hive_angel]

Your thoughts help make some sense. So the rule books interpretation of paying 1 mp per is essentially a flight path which also I guess makes sense for the shortest path first area.

I think though if a mech is essentially hovering through hexes it is about 1 level above the ground for falling purposes.

[sentinemodo]

I've seen your question in the rules section.
I can't reply to clarify (but I was able to do so when I was asking my own question).
It might be important if you add a detailed description to the 01 question - that you mean single move in one turn when having enough available move points (jumping) to continue.
Otherwise, a perfectly good aneswer would be - the mech can walk out of the water on the next turn. I was thinking about providing the link to the game post to provide illustration to the question. Other option would be to tell the hex numbers on the standard map.

[sentinemodo]

meanwhile, I need to clarify the modifiers for attacking with Wasp.

I got two options:
1. I can fire medium laser
Gunnery 4 + Jumped 3 + prone 2 + target move 1 + target jumped 1 -> thats already 11, now is there a modifier for shooting from higher ground on the immediately close target? it's kind of similar to the shooting at the prone mech in adjacent hex, but not quite
if hit there would be full hit locations table
2. I can try to deliver a punch
Piloting 5 + Jumped 3 + prone 2 + target move 1 + target jumped 1-> that 12
if hit there would be punching hit locations table

what do you think?

[hive_angel]

Your Crusader cannot use its SRM6 weapons. Those weapons are located in the legs and you are in partial cover thus covering the weapons.

[sentinemodo]

good catch, editing

[sentinemodo]

switched SRMs to LRM under minimum Range

[hive_angel]

1. I can fire medium laser
Gunnery 4 + Jumped 3 + prone 2 + target move 1 + target jumped 1 -> thats already 11, now is there a modifier for shooting from higher ground on the immediately close target? it's kind of similar to the shooting at the prone mech in adjacent hex, but not quite
if hit there would be full hit locations table

You should be able to fire the ML with the to hit modifier you calculated above. Since I am adjacent to your mech I'll get a -2 mod and if I was further out a +1 mod. You should not get any benefit as that would seem beneficial to being prone where it should not at such a close range.

2. I can try to deliver a punch
Piloting 5 + Jumped 3 + prone 2 + target move 1 + target jumped 1-> that 12
if hit there would be punching hit locations table

As for the punch you may be out of luck. My mech as free rain to punch away however I am not finding anything concerning your mech's ability to punch my mech. It is mostly because you are prone. Total Warfare P. 151 states "Prone ’Mechs can make only two types of physical attacks;
punches against ground vehicles in the same hex and thrashing attacks against infantry".
The Introductory book P. 37 has a table for the available attacks against a mech 1 level lower are (Charge, Kick, Club, Physical Weapon) Punching I have to be 1 level higher or even ground.

[sentinemodo]

you could be right.

On the latter I think it's because getting into situation where you'll have a prone mech one level higher than the target is so improbable that they haven't thought of it.

I think that move should be legal, which doesn't mean I'd try it, taking 11s is 3 times better than taking 12s :)
Still another opportunity to ask a question on the rules subforum.

[sentinemodo]

ok, guess we can roll